good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. live pictures here from capitol hill where michigan governor rick snyder is testifying on the flint water crisis. first up on this thursday, could we see convention chaos? the gop establishment and top conservatives finally seem to be acknowledging the elephant in the room. three leading members of the conservative movement are meeting behind closed doors to

figure out a way to stop donald trump. they prefer to deny him the nomination through voters and in the primary process but after a near sweep on tuesday, trump is closer than ever. and a viable conservative alternative to run as a third-party candidate but trump continues to call the shots in the race. he backed out of monday's debates saying no one told him about it which prompted john kasich also to take a pass. fox news canceling the whole thing altogether. as you can imagine, ted cruz isn't very happy about this. >> his excuse is silliness and it reflects his assumption that he thinks the voters can't figure out that he's not telling him the truth. apac would have allowed him to speak at anytime. it's a multiday conference. he chose to speak right in the middle of the debate because he's scared of the debate. he looks down on the voters. he thinks they are gullible and

will believe anything that he is saying. kelly o'donnell and hallie jackson are joining me. is this meeting, kelly, too little too late? >> certainly time is precious for those people trying to stop trump but this does give conservatives who have been very active, a chance to sort of brainstorm and try to come up with some ideas. the hard part is the facts are really difficult. and one of the things that comes up, we've got different groups playing the anti-trump. we're talking about advertising campaigns that have brought some resource together, some traditional republicans. then you have these active conservatives who have a different point of view who are really about the ideology and believing that donald trump is not a true conservative and does not believe in the same values that they believe in. timing is tough. if this all began a couple

months ago, perhaps it would have had a different outcome. right now they are looking for sort of trapped doors. where can they find a break in the rules? where can they find a way to galvanize voters? where can they find some sort of a twist or turn? where do the rubio voters go? that's an open question in this next series of elections coming up on tuesday. you see a split likely among the candidates. it looks like donald trump would probably win arizona, ted cruz has some strength in utah and then there's the circumstance for john kasich and he's talking about his power in a general election. if there is a convention that is open and a chance for delegates to be moved about and negotiated for, kasich says ohio is critical to get any republican to the white house. and there's a strong argument for that, even though he is so far behind the other candidate. but if kasich drops out, one source was pointing out to me

that one of the challenges, jose, is that there are not a few things to keep track of with so many of these dynamics, if you open one door, there's a new set of contingencies. if you go down another path, another set of issues pop up, which is why it's so complicated and perhaps why republicans and conservatives have not been on the same page for months now. jose? >> yeah. i mean, kelly, let's think back a little bit about this road to the white house for the republicans. that road to the white house for the gop is littered with a road kill -- political road kill of people who ran against trump. jeb bush, rubio, you've got a whole slew of candidates, including carson and so many others that stood up to trump and they became political road kill. >> i don't think the party could have imagined that in what they saw in those 17 candidates, where they thought they had a

real breath of talent and represented different parts of the party and different job skills that it would come down to a situation where they couldn't get behind just one figure. typically, that's what republicans do. they've been known to fall in line and share their delegates when one candidate beats another. that's not happening this year. and then there's the question of alienating trump voters. if those who are active in conservative circles, are in the party appear to be discounting what trump voters are doing, that sets off a whole other chapter of sort of pandora's box which could affect other kind of races. senate races, house races, state races. so the impact here may be far more than just the presidential nominating process. jose? >> kelly o'donnell in washington, good seeing you. thank you very much. >> you, too. looking ahead to tuesday's contest in arizona, ted cruz is flying there for a rally

tomorrow. hallie jackson is in texas with the senator before he heads west. hallie, good morning. >> reporter: good morning from here in houston where senator ted cruz has spent the last couple of days in his home town taking a break from the campaign trail but he's back out there tomorrow. he will be in arizona for a big rally with glenn beck and others. arizona holds its primary on tuesday and so does utah where they will look for utah and wisconsin in the coming days to be places where the campaign feels they can pick off delegates. that said, it could be a challenge for them moving forward if donald trump picks up steam, picks up momentum in that delegate math race. cruz, interestingly, hitting donald trump now reupping his ducking donald attack. remember, that came up after donald trump skipped one of the previous debates. now trump has said he would not attend a previously planned debate in utah on monday night. john kasich isn't going either. that debate now scrapped.

cr jose? >> hallie jackson, thank you very much. two states in the western part of the country will soon have their first chance to weigh in on this presidential cycle since the nevada caucuses nearly a month ago. both parties with contests in arizona and utah on tuesday. for the republicans, arizona is winner-take-all. and with little polling, the candidates are flying blind. with me now in phoenix, a national political report for "the arizona republic," good to see you. >> hi, jose. thanks for having me on. >> you have 58 delegates at stake on tuesday. donald trump ahead in one poll out this week. one in three voters have yet to make up their mind? >> right. i think everyone is thinking that donald trump comes in to arizona with a pretty big advantage. he's had a couple of rallies in the state before. he's picked up some pretty strong support, some big endorsements, former governor

jane brewer, maricopa sheriff joe arpaio. so i think the consensus is trump is probably ahead. >> does the fact that trump decided to back out of this debate on monday going to hurt him, do you think, there? >> no, i don't think so. >> no? >> no, i don't think so. ted cruz has people on the ground here. i think he's going to make a pretty good effort. but the sense that i've talked to, cruz is probably better positioned to win utah. nobody really thinks that trump is going to do well in utah. and that trump is probably better positioned in arizona. arizona is the bigger prize with the winner-take-all 15 delegates. >> sure is. let's talk about immigration. it was obviously an important topic in arizona and there's also an issue that republicans are looking to hear from a candidate there? >> right. well, it's interesting that donald trump has kind of swept

up support from the immigration hardliners on the right in arizona. but on the democratic side, too, the immigration is kind of defining the race there with hillary clinton's campaign really hitting bernie sanders hard on immigration here in arizona. even though hillary clinton won the arizona primary in 2008 over president obama, they seemed very worried about arizona this year and they were taking it very seriously and they were hitting sanders pretty hard. >> among other things, they were bringing up a vote that helped the minute man folks there in arizona. talk to me a little bit about what it is that is so important and there are two clearly different worlds between the republicans there and the democrats. >> right. well, arizona's latino population, i think it makes up 21.5% of the state's eligible voters and obviously most of those are on the democratic side. so both campaigns are really trying hard to appeal to

latinos. >> right. >> hillary clinton brought up bernie sanders vote against the 2007 immigration reform bill. you know, that bill was criticized by some on the left as kind of making too many concessions to republicans like senator john kyle who helped negotiate it. but, you know, hillary clinton's pointing out that was a really good chance for a compromise and by voting against it, you killed it in the senate and kind of killed the chances. >> it's going to be an interesting race. dan, thanks for being with me. appreciate your time. >> thanks, jose. talk a little bit -- i want to talk a little this morning about the idea of a contested convention. i want to bring in msnbc political analyst elise jordan and in washington, amanda turkle. if trump gets to the convention with most of the delegates but not a majority, what are the options to try to derail that even if he comes in very strong

but doesn't that have totality? >> well, it could involve some backroom deals that make his supporters upset. trump has already warned that if he doesn't get to be the nominee, there might be riots from his protesters. when he doesn't really say it but he's not discouraging them either and he's putting the idea in their head. so it could be something where, honestly, you could see maybe ted cruz and john kasich trying to stop donald trump. it seems unlikely but maybe together they could pull enough delegates and then there is this issue of unbound delegates. what will happen to the delegates that have supported the candidates that have dropped out. there could be delegates that maybe go with the people their state wants them to go to but then after that they go with their heart. honestly, the state rules are different but it could be chaos for the republicans. >> and i want to go to capitol hill real quick, at least before i go with you, because senate

minority leader harry reid is speaking and we're also dipping into this hearing where michigan governor snyder is. that's what i want to take you to. here's the minority leader harry reid talking about trump. let's listen in. >> to the new administration. they decided on a two-fold mission. first, they will do everything in their power to keep president obama from being elected. second, they would prevent president obama from achieving any of his legislative priorities. the rejection of this manifests itself in one big lie, that they repeat in different ways over and over again. this is the lie. the economic hardships americans face could not be addressed by smart, targeted policy solutions. if those solutions were proposed by obama, again and again, republican leaders told americans that any policy put

forward by democrats was nefarious because it came from president obama. we've seen this big lie resurface in the last 24 hours as president obama nominated merrick garland to the supreme court. the supreme court overwhelmingly needs someone and the senate with a large vote a.ed hppointe to the second highest court in the land. at that time, republicans voted for him. here's what senator hatch said of merrick garland and i quote, i know merrick garland very well. he'll be very well -supported b all sides and the president knows that. he said a lot more complementary things. republicans are slamming the door on a good man they once

embraced. simply why? because president obama nominated him. that's how they've treated him over his entire presidency. they've done it for going on 7 1/2 years. it didn't matter where these ideas came from. it didn't even matter if they came from republicans. republican leaders repeated that big lie over and over in many different ways. they said, whatever president obama proposes, even if it's a republican idea, it cannot help you. and will hurt you. look at the affordable care act. in 2009, 50 million americans were suffering without health insurance. the centerpiece of reform is the individual mandate. where did that come from? from the conservative heritage foundation. but as soon as president obama proposed the individual mandate, it suddenly became socialism in their eyes. but it's not just the affordable care act. democrats promote one policy

after another to -- >> senate minority leader harry reid giving his big picture on what has been the last 7 1/2 years as the obama administration on capitol hill and a whole lot more. i want to go back to our conversation about trump and what happened and a contested convention on the gop side. elise, i want to bring you back in and ask you a little bit about it because we were -- you know, we were talking about the possibility that trump in the past has said there will be riots if he has the most delegates and isn't nominated. from what you've seen on the campaign trail, is there any reason we shouldn't believe him? >> well, i think he's definitely going to keep ratcheting up that rhetoric. he definitely is within his interest to claim that serving just going to go to utter chaos if he's not handed the nomination when, in fact, he

would be a nominee without the necessary 1237. however, going at his current pace, i really think that trump probably will secure the number of delegates he needs to win the nomination outright. if he does well in arizona, which i think he will, that will be 58 delegates, and then if he does well in big states like new york and california. so, i really -- the calendar is not very favorable for cruz and cruz is behind trump. so i think it's very possible that trump could just win the nomination outright. >> elise jordan and amanda terkel, thank you for being with me. appreciate your time. >> thank you. happening right now, michigan governor rick snyder is on the hill. facing pretty tough questions about the ongoing toxic water crisis in flint, michigan. that crisis continues as we speak. the hearing there in d.c. getting heated. we'll have more on that, next, right here on msnbc.

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and right now, michigan governor rick snyder is testifying before congress on the toxic water crisis in flint. let's go to luke russert. what's the very latest in this hearing? >> reporter: hey there, jose. this is a hearing that's been on the calendar because until now governor rick snyder has not testified about what happened in flint and it's something that a lot of democrats on the oversight committee had been calling for. republicans agreed to that request but they are also bringing forward gina mccarthy. expect to see democrats go after rick snyder. they will say that the epa didn't reprimand the state of michigan for having the toxic water. this is going ton contentious because democrats are upset with

governor snyder and have been calling for him to resign. listen to this questioning of the governor by cartwright. >> you were not in a medically induced a coma for a year and i've about had enough of your phony apologies. the epa does not bear one-tenth of the responsibility and she resigned and there you are dripping with guilt but drawing your paycheck, hiring lawyers at the expense of the people and doing your dead-level best to spread accountability to others. and not being accountable. it's not appropriate. pretty soon, we will have men who strike their wives saying, i'm sorry, dear, but there were failures at all levels. people who put dollars over the fundamental safety of the people do not belong in government and

you need to resign, too, governor snyder. >> reporter: so that's an idea of how contentious this hearing is, jose. i can tell you that a reason why a lot of the democrats on the panel are so fired up today is because not only how the crisis played out, they interviewed some of the lower level people who were directly in charge of what happened in flint and it was passing the buck. i was reviewing the transcripts. the city person who didn't take the responsibility nor did the federal. there's a lot of an animosity. i have never seen a line to get into the hearing. it was the longest line i've ever seen. a lot of people interested in the hearing, jose. >> and they are passing the buck from one city to county and state and meanwhile there are kids that have been poisoned essentially, lead poisoning that's going to have a devastating effect on their

lives. that continues and all of that slow process of picking up those pipes took them two years to start it and passing the buck. i guess that's the easy way to do it. luke, good to see you. thanks. up next, the battle lines are being drawn over merrick garland. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell standing firmly against the nomination but some republicans up for re-election may be feeling a different kind of pressure. we're going to cover that, all angles of this political fight, next. accelerate, we've created a new company. one totally focused on what's next for your business. accelerating innovation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise.

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or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. as we've been reporting, supreme court nominee merrick garland meets with senators on capitol hill. mitch mcconnell reiterated that the gop would not consider merrick garland's nomination. >> we simply disagree. republicans think that the people deserve a voice. the president does not. so we disagree in this instance and, as a result, we logically

act as a check and balance. >> massachusetts senator elizabeth warren weighed in on the battle when she spoke exclusively to msnbc's chris hayes. >> you know, one of the most solemn undertakings that we have in government is filling a vacancy on the united states supreme court. the president has just completed his constitutional duty. article 2, section 2. he has nominated someone to fill that vacancy. and now what we want is for the republicans to join us in doing the job that the senate is supposed to do. hold our hearings and have a vote. give our advice and consent on this nominee. you know, it's pretty straightforward. it's there in the constitution what we're asking for is do your job. >> and democrat senators will be holding a do your job event outside of the supreme court today. joining me now, msnbc legal

correspondent ari melber. good to see you. >> good morning. >> senator mcconnell sticking to his guns saying there will be no hearing. where does it leave the court? >> with eight justices, which is not wholly unusual. they have been down that road before. what's unusual is the notion of leaving it at eight justices for a long time or through the election due to the political calendar with no pretense of looking at the potential replacement. we can show you the polling on this. when you ask people what should they do, leave vacant, 37% and vote is 48%. 28% approve of that and 55% disapprove. i want to be clear, that obviously is not everyone in the country saying yes, merrick garland should be on the supreme court. that's everyone in the country saying, yes, let's have the normal process and the normal

review in hearings to determine whether merrick garland should be on the supreme court. at this point, jose, you're seeing a hot, hot debate over process, over precedent. republicans saying, we don't want to give an inch. we don't want to do anything. and the question is, even if they believe that's their constitutional role, advise and consent, does that play well with the public? at least take this judge and give him a hearing. >> so let's talk about the precedent. what is the precedent on something like this in this kind of timing? >> this is what i would say. the president is generally that nominees get this process and they usually get approved, although sometimes they are voted down. that's the precedent. as for the more specific obstructionist complaint of, why would you block someone from even being heard, there is no precedent for a supreme court nominee not getting the basic meetings at a full hearing. that's why people have these memories of these dramatic hearings that you think about. you hear about robert borque and

anita hill. even opposed nominees went through that process. so no precedent for no hearing whatsoever. i spoke to the white house yesterday. they are convinced they will push and they will eventually get hearings. that's what this fight is about at this point. >> dr. melber, thank you for joining me. >> you wrote yesterday that merrick garland's credentials did not be questioned and he's i am -- the president nominates and senate provides advice and consent. as ari pointed out, it has done so historically and without variation, move forward on nominations even in election

years and most times often confirmed those nominees. so for senators who actually believe that they have a role to play that the constitution describes and requires of them, we're reminding them of what that is. >> there is no precedent that close to elections or presidential elections, especially, there has been moments -- there have been moments when that decision has been postponed? >> no, actually. and as a letter of constitutional law professor has pointed out, there have been 21 supreme court justices who have been confirmed in the final year of a presidency. and so throughout our history, there have been justices nominated and confirmed. and so what we're in right now is a constitutional bermuda triangle that we have never been in before. the republican leadership in the senate is creating a situation that is unprecedented and it's

really quite dangerous for our constitution. >> are you surprised that the president didn't take the opportunity to maybe add a more progressive voice to the supreme court with his pick? >> i think judge garland is somebody that has been recognized as being an incredibly fine judge. he has credentials that are unrivaled. his experience, 18 years on the d.c. circuit, has been met with only praise. >> are you surprised that the president didn't choose someone different? >> well, i think there were a number of fine candidates that he was considering and he picked somebody that, you know, the republican senators themselves have said they would welcome to be named. orrin hatch just last week said that merrick garland is a fine man and should be considered. the head of the judicial crisis network, which under george bush was called the judicial confirmation network, changed when president obama became president, in 2010 she said that

merrick garland should be nominated because he's somebody that would lower the temperature in washington, d.c., and so i think president obama has picked somebody with fine credentials and we are excited about that. >> caroline frederickson, thanks for joining me. >> thanks for having me. bernie sanders says he still sees a path to the nomination despite hillary clinton's clean sweep this week. we'll tell you what his strategy is, next. vo: know you have a dedicated advisor and team who understand where you come from. we didn't really have anything, you know. but, we made do. vo: know you can craft an investment plan as strong as your values. al, how you doing. hey, mr. hamilton. vo: know that together you can establish a meaningful legacy. with the guidance and support of your dedicated pnc wealth management team.

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msnbc msnbc's kasie hunt is joining us from sedona. >> reporter: jose, the sanders strategy sounds exactly today what it sounded like on monday regardless of the losses. they plan to soldier on. they feel like the second half of this month and into april has contests that savor them. arizona has a primary. probably hillary clinton's best chance to pull out of a win here at the end of march. otherwise, it's caucuses in utah and idaho and washington state, all places where bernie sanders feels like a lot of his supporters are very excited about him and the question, we're still waiting to find out what kind of money they've raised in the hours after those losses if people are still continuing to give them small amounts of money in ways that add up really big. as long as that's happening, you can expect sanders to continue soldiering onward.

now, we'll see what the tone of the campaign sounds like going forward. his advisers on a conference call yesterday insisting that the tone was going to stay the same, that he would continue hitting hillary clinton over super pac donations, on issues like trade, nafta, et cetera. but, of course, as this goes on, if in fact hillary clinton's delegate lead does stay the way it seems, insurmountable, it's going to be potentially difficult for him to continue going on and aggressively going after clinton because there is going to be more pressure on democrats to unite. his campaign manager in something of an interesting twist suggested yesterday that bernie sanders staying in will help protect clinton from some of trump's most aggressive attacks. it seems to me that trump is going to go after hillary clinton regardless of what bernie sanders does. jose? >> msnbc's kasie hunt. let's talk about the issues

within the campaigns. sanders campaign is warning what could happen if bernie sanders would drop out. hillary clinton could expect months and months and months of personal attacks from the trump people. i don't know if that's necessarily healthy for her. kasie kind of talked about that. is he right? do you think bernie sanders should stay in this race? >> i think hillary clinton is mounting a very strong case that she's going to be the nominee. i think bernie sanders has something to offer as well. he's been raising issues that i think the public wants to hear. not only democrats but some republicans as well. but i think as we move closer, there's going to be a transition and -- >> when should that be? when do you see that snapg. >> that's going to be in the mind of bernie sanders when he does that but next month or so i think it will get clearer. but i think the democrats have a much easier case to transition. not only bernie's opinions but transitioning to hillary. on the republican side, where

people are so dug in on their candidates, to all come together at the convention, it's going to be crazy. >> yeah. it's been so interesting to watch how there have been blocks of people. you know, young voters. >> right. >> that have been so enthusiastically behind bernie sanders. do you see that that block can't enthusiastically support a hillary clinton if bernie sanders is no longer in the race? i mean, they are very motivated but they are very motivated for what bernie sanders is saying and who he is. >> right. but i think what is going to happen over time, this is going to become a general election campaign and the general election campaign becomes one in which there's a very distinct difference between hillary clinton's positions, everything from the supreme court nominee to health care issues to women issues and job issues versus donald trump who is all over the place. >> and speaking of trump, you know, his lines of attacks, i want to show you this latest ad from his campaign. take a look at it.

[ barking ]. >> this is the kind of attacks or advertising that we're not really used to in a presidential campaign. are you guys ready for this? consistently one after the other after the other? >> well, i think this is going to be -- all of the rules are broken going forward. i think both sides have to be ready for any kind of campaign. i think hillary's campaign is going to be first day in office, i am ready for the job. this guy doesn't have the temperament. he's going to have the nuclear codes and a lot of other things that people are going to be really concerned about when it comes to national security and jobs. big contrast. >> you saw what happened with jeb bush of experience and temperament. >> different -- clearly the people have issues but i think this is a general election people will be concerned about focusing on details.

>> representative ron klein, thank you. >> thank you. we'll hear from the cruz and kasich campaigns next right here on msnbc. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost. now try new boost® compact and 100 calories.

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for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together. ♪ to be the republican nominee takes 1237 delegates. there are only two candidates that have any plausible path to getting there, donald trump and me. >> ted cruz making his case over the past couple of weeks. he wants a one-on-one match between he and donald trump for the republican nomination and now that the race is down to three, cruz emphasizing that the math makes it impossible for kasich to win the nomination. a spokesperson for the ted cruz campaign, he joins me this morning. manny, good see you. >> good seeing you. >> is ted cruz asking kasich to drop out? >> we are asking kasich to drop

out. marco rubio dropped out and had no path to a nomination. every day that you're in the campaign, you're helping donald trump. he's helping donald trump. so we want a one-on-one with donald trump. the math is impossible for kasich to get the nomination now. he needs 112% of the remaining delegates to get the nomination. >> right. the point is, if trump doesn't get to 1237 and kasich has not dropped out, maybe he could be a player. >> yeah, but look -- >> the convention is in ohio, after all. >> we're going to go into the convention but you get people from all around the country. donald trump is going to go in there with a ton of delegates and we think we're going to get to 1237 before the nomination. >> you're saying that you think cruz can actually get 1237? >> absolutely. we have a plausible path to that. >> three-fourths of the delegates from now till the convention? >> yes. >> and right now you do but right now trump has gotten more than twice the victories that cruz has. >> yeah. but this field started with 17

candidates and we're down to two. >> you're down to three. >> two with a possible path. and a one-on-one with donald trump, we can beat him resoundedly, by double digits. it's crystal clear for the republican party, who do you want to be the nominee? someone who has spent a lifetime being part of the washington cartel? hillary clinton and donald trump are part -- two coins -- two sides to the same coin, jose. one has been a lifetime studying government influence and the other one has been buying government influence. >> the people that he works closely with in washington, the senators, not only are they not supporting him, he's not exactly poster boy of the month in the senate. >> we've heard that before. it's a tiring line. senior advisers to rubio are saying he's the best guy. yesterday rubio said the only conservative left in the race is ted cruz. it's a crystal clear choice for

republicans. who do you want to be the nominee? somebody like donald trump who is divisive? >> how do you know that cruz would do better against hillary clinton than trump? >> look at the polls. donald trump loves to talk about the polls. he loses to hillary clinton by eight points. we beat hillary clinton in a one on one. it's a crystal clear choice. who do you want to be your nominee? someone who is divisive or consistent and conservative? >> and who is very unpopular within the party that you're -- >> he's unpopular within the washington, d.c. -- within the system. that's what we want. we want somebody from the outside. >> manny, thank you for joining me. >> thanks. up next, can john kasich carry the ohio momentum to win the gop nomination? former senator john sinunu is going to be joining me. first, on this st. patrick's day, look at the chicago river famously died green to celebrate st. paddy's day. you can see it. it's green.

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ohio governor john kasich looking to prove that he can win outside of ohio as a republican primary race moves out west on tuesday. kasich trailing the delegate count to donald trump, ted cruz and even marco rubio who has suspended his campaign. kasich would need to win 106% of the remaining delegates available to clinch the nomination, meaning in reality, his best hope for the nomination is a contested convention. bring informer senator john sununu. senator, great seeing you. >> great to be here. >> so what's the way forward for kasich? >> well, it's win every delegate, win every vote you can. as you pointed out, it's likely to be an open convention. your next guest said it's plausible for ted cruz to get 75% of the delegates. i think that's proof that ted cruz is living in fantasy land. he's not going to get 75% of the delegates. he won't get a majority. donald trump won't get a

majority. this is unchartered territory but we've got to let the process work. respect the delegates, respect the primary and fight for every one. >> senator, if 75% of the delegates is living in fantasy land, what land is kasich in? he's got to win 106% of the delegates. >> it's that it's going to be an open convention and ted cruz knows that. he knows it's going to be an open convention. he just wants it to be between he and trump. you've got three candidates left and they are going to vie for every delegate and at the same time, you've only got one candidate, john kasich, who has cut taxes and balanced budgets and been a chief executive of the seventh largest state successfully, turned that state around, created 400,000 jobs. but at the end of the day, this is going to be about finding the republican that will beat hillary clinton in november and everyone knows kasich runs stronger. >> all right. so if it's an open convention, does kasich have to win any

states? between now and ohio? >> sure. >> is there any victory that includes victories? >> sure. it's about winning every delegate. secondly, geographically, it gets a lot stronger for john kasich. new york, pennsylvania, connecticut, even california in june. it's going to be a wide-open race and a wide-open opportunity and, again, with three candidates, the difference that sets john kasich apart in experience, temperament, success, the fact that he has done this time and again, he'll do it in the white house. >> so -- but -- i mean, there is a pathway to the open convention that includes him winning more states than just ohio. >> oh, i think so. absolutely. absolutely. but, again, to amass the most number of delegates possible and to let the delegates have their

say. what's their job going to be in july at a national convention in cleveland? they are going to be asked, who's the strongest republican who can put forward a vision in the general election and win back the white house against hillary clinton? john kasich doesn't need on-the-job training. he's accomplished these things before and runs stronger against hillary in every single poll. >> so really quickly, we're running out of time, if it's trump, then cruz and kasich down here in the open convention and kasich gets up there, do you think everybody is going to be fine with that? >> look, i think at the end of the day, if you get a majority of the delegates, by definition, the convention, the republican party is fine with that because it's affirmed the fact that this is the best, strongest republican, the person with the vision and experience and temperament to be president of the united states. and that's what it's all about at the end of the day. >> senator sununu, pleasure to

see you and thanks for being with me this morning. that wraps up this hour of "msnbc live." thank you for the privilege of your time. tamron hall is up next. i'll see you tomorrow. magician and taco maker are all small business owners in daytona beach, florida. they are listening closely when the presidential candidates talk. what they want to know is who is going to have their backs when times get tough. watch on msnbc. >> brought to you by american express open. visit openforum.com for ideas on how to help grow your business. but it's hard to keep up with it. your body and your diabetes change over time. your treatment plan may too. know your options. once-daily toujeo®

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. good morning, everyone. i'm tamron hall. the flint water crisis is center stage on capitol hill. governor rick snyder and epa administrator gina mccarthy are defending their respective actions during the water crisis in flint. sparks have been flying all morning long when the hearing started just a few hours ago. lawmakers along partisan lines calling for each to resign. let's take a listen as the hearing has just resumed. >> saying you couldn't do things or this or that because of the law. i have a really simple question.

why didn't susan headman just call dan wyatt? this is the culture that got us in the problem to begin with. where is commonsense? >> all right. let me continue on. thank you for your answer. ms. mccarthy, is it your testimony under oath today that you believe susan headman and region five did everything they could have? >> they did. they sought information and consiste consistently, from april on, when they found there was no corrosion control -- >> we have conflicting info on that but this is your testimony under oath? >> yes. >> you were operatesing susan headman an