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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  March 31, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in." >> i have not been treated properly. >> he meets with the rnc as his numbers against democrats and collapse and the entire political world erupts over his abortion comment. >> it has to be some form of punishment. >> for the women? >> yeah. >> increase calls for cleveland protests. >> we need five million constitutional trumpists to be there. >> a trump super pac goes on the air. >> sure i get some grief when i say i'm voting for donald trump. >> my interview with wendy davis on trump's trouble with women. plus, i'll talk to another unbound republican delegate getting wooed by ted cruz.
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>> we find out she's got 147 fbi agents investigating her e-mail practices. that sounds routine. that's totally normal. >> it's 147 fbi agents investigating her. >> all in starts now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. donald trump met with the head of republican national committee as it became clearer than ever that a trump nomination is an absolute nightmare scenario for the gop. just had a nice meeting with rein krerks -- reince preibus. his rivals and much of the gop establishment plot to deny him the domination at a contested convention. it follows what politico called 24 hours after mayhem when trump
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uttered statements that were incindiary by his statements . >> how about europe? >> i'm not going to take it off the table. we have the geneva convention and all sorts of rules. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion? yes or no? >> the answer is that it has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, it has to be some form. >> trump later reversed that position which he claims was taken out of context but the damage was done. if not with trump voters but the rest of the american public. for months and months people have been asking why all of trump's extreme positions and out right bigotry and statements aren't having an effect. the reality is they are having. just not with the hard core trump supporters, the 30 to 40%
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gop primary voters primed to back him no matter what. then there's everyone else in matter. it's clear that trump is shaping up to be a nightmare nominee. trump is viewed unfavorable by 80% of vote. 80% of african-americans and 85% of hispanics. views unfavorable by 52% of non-college whites, 53% of conservatives and 51% of the white men, the one group that's supposed to like him. the trend lines are devastating. polls showed trump within three points of hillary clinton in a general election match up. today he's losing by 11 points. he's losing by a bigger margin to bernie sanders. one group we haven't talked about yet is the biggest voting block. three quarters of women view trump unfavorably.
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yesterday he addressed the issue. >> i don't understand why. the numbers aren't good. they were good. nobody respects women more than i do. >> yeah, it's a real head scratcher. a pro-trump super pac rolled out a truly amazing new ad designed to help solve the problem. >> sure i get grief when i say i'm voting for donald trump. i want to protect my family. paris, san bernardino and now brussels, i want a president that will keep us safe. we need to control our borders and stop letting in dangerous people. trump will do that. >> the pac tells nbc news the spot will run nationally and statewide in wisconsin where voters go to the polls on tuesday. one poll shows trump losing to ted cruz 40% to 30% with cruz up 21 points since february, and trump stagnant. joining me now senior political writer at buzz feed news.
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betsy woodriff, political reporter at the daily beast. the fact that wisconsin has a set of specific conditions, the strength of its establishment, conservative talk radio. you have reince preibus, scott walker, it's a state tailor made for cruz or we're seeing the momentum come off the trump? what do you think? >> i think it's possibly we're seeing both. wisconsin's public world doesn't mirror the rifts that republicans in other states and nationally have. there isn't this angry basacrim that you see. it's not what you see in virginia, texas or other states. part of that is because the talk radio world is to effective at bringing those groups together. another important thing about wisconsin is that 70% of all
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voters there have an unfavorable view of trump that undercuts the entire thesis of his campaign. >> yeah, i think that thesis is getting a little harder to buy by the day. you've wat you're watching it now. there's people saying this guy is a disaster. he's said this guy could be a pretty good general election candidate. the way he's conducted himself, his inability to exert any discipline, yesterday's spectacle with my colleague, chris matthews, i thought he did a great job. it's evident the guy hasn't thought about anything at all. people don't like that. >> it's all impulse and reflex. he's cultivated a certain brand. he's good at responding and reacting to everything that comes at him on brand. that brand is not as we've seen, appealing to the national
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electora electorate. it's appealing to 35% of primary voters. the theory he was going to win back north eastern states and rust belt states the, you could see a world in which that would work. you could see a world in which trump's economic populism paired could win voters. he's alienated so many other voters. now even in that poll that you showed, 51% of the white men don't like him. he doesn't have a core of support that can carry him to a national victory. >> howard, you ran one of the two major parties in america for a period of time, at least the democratic national committee. here's my question for you. trump goes to meet with reince preibus. is there anything the rnc can do to stop him, cut him short of the nomination, essentially take a nomination away from him?
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>> there is. the insiders don't believe it's possible or wise to do it. i've had a couple of dinner meetings with republicans where you talk to ceos and all these kinds of things, different points of view. most of them believe trump's got it. the price of taking the nomination away from trump would be to destroy the republicans in this election cycle. there's another thing that we haven't talked about. ted cruz is an incredibly unappealing candidate. for him to be the alternative to trump, it's out of the trying pan a -- frying pan and into the fire. his views are more extreme than donald trump's are. this is a spectacular melt down. >> your point is well taken. do they scotch the whole field and try -- >> they could. they can change the rules.
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they can change the rules. i know what the rules are now because of hearing and listening to some really prominent republicans who know about the convention. they're different from ours. they can change the rules and make sure trump didn't get the nomination. there would be a big price to be especially with the nomination of ted cruz. i have not yet met a republican insider in a private dinner, one of these type of things or private meetings that we have with various people, who believes that the nomination is going to go to anybody who is not in placed nomination. right now john kasich doesn't have the credentials to be in nomination. i've never seen anything like that. i don't like to venture a guess because i've been wrong 100% of the time about everything i've said so far. >> you have esteemed company. that's part of what's made it difficult to gain this out. i have felt, covering this day in and day out, having been
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deeply embedded in this. it feels there's something shifting in the last week. it's not about shifting with his appeal to the core of people in the republican primary. it's the shift, it's the dawning awareness of the scale of the electoral disaster that he could be in the fall. >> some of these polling numbers, i can't imagine how hard it is for folks at the rnc to look at them. just the abc poll that came out, i believe a vifew hours ago, he unfavorable rating was 52%. it's the only thing they within the to talk about. the only hiccup is their guys has more than two-thirds unfavorable rating. they can't talk about it. >> talk about the turn out numbers with republican primaries. >> what could the guy do?
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>> what is he supposed to do? you do wonder, the big question, we were just talk about this. the big question is the rnc, the party elders, the leaders of the establishment, it's about how willful the party is to stop trump. that's the big question. >> the big question is where there's a will, there's a way. the rules are a symptom of power. they are not a source for its cause. i really believethis. this is about power. this is about who controls what and who is willing to do what. if the people in power, howard, decide to roll over, which it sounds like your conversations they are resigned to doing, they can't stop him. if they do want to stop him, they can. >> first of all, this will have about 19 more chapters before we
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get to the end. it's possible they will have the equivalent of the democratic 1968 convention in chicago. not only will you have this mayhem inside the hall if they try to take him out by changing the rules. what will happen outside the halls when you have every group opposed. if your choice is trump or cruz, both of them are so far out of mainstream of politics. it's out of frying pan into the fire. you'll have every group this america protesting outside the convention hall in cleveland. i don't know what i would do if i was reince. >> quit your job. the point you made about '68 is key. everyone remembers the footage of what happened outside the convention hall. >> and inside. >> inside the convention hall there was a fight over the mississippi delegation, whether it was the mississippi freedom party or the old
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segregationists. maybe we'll have two south carolina. >> what people remember about that convention besid, besides riots, daily going like this. the mayhem inside the convention hall was the anthesists of what you do. thank you. the big school on hillary clinton that sounds too out landish to be true, turns out wasn't true. the story behind the supposed 147 fbi agents, coming up. first, donald trump's comments on abortion set off a fire storm from the left and right. wendy davis joins me to talk about it. that story is next. do not go anywhere. i take pictures of sunrises.
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man 1: what did they get? man 2: what didn't they get. man 1: i need to call mike... man 2: don't use your phone. it's not just security, it's defense. bae systems. i am a first responder tor and i'emergencies 24 hours a day, everyday of the year. my children and my family are on my mind when i'm working all the time. my neighbors are here, my friends and family live here, so it's important for me to respond as quickly as possible and get the power back on. it's an amazing feeling turning those lights back on. be informed about outages in your area. sign up for outage alerts at together, we're building a better california. do you believe in punishment for abortion? yes or no as a principle? >> the answer is that it has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, it had to be some form.
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>> since ten years. >> that i don't know. >> why not? >> i don't know. >> you take positions on everything else. >> i do. >> you mean you want to ban abortion. how do you ban abortion without some kind of sanction? then you get in that tricky question of a sanction. a fine on human life, which you call murder. a fine? imprisonment for a young woman who finds herself pregnant. >> it will have to be determined. >> almost immediately after the words came out of donald trump's mouth, even as they were coming out. he never given the issue of what a world where abortion banned would look like. two, he had run afoul of the group he was trying to approve to. within hours of trump advocating the punishment of women who get abortions, two anti-abortion groups condemned his remarks.
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susan b. anthony says let us be clear it's solely for those who profit off the life of another. march for life said he's out of touch. women who choose abortion do so in deseparation and regret it. no pro-lifer would want to punish a woman. ted cruz who opposed abortion agreed. >> should women who get abortions be punished? >> of course not. donald's comments, today, are just the latest demonstration he hasn't thought seriously about the problems facing this country. he's willing to say anything to try to get elected. >> trump realizing he managed to anger both spent the day walking it all back, first, saying the issue should be put back to the states and saying the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. the woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb.
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tonight, trump tried a new angle saying the comments were taken out of context. the anti-abortion rights movement have spent decades carefully crafting a position that equates it with murder but only indicting the doctor. donald trump not understanding the admittedly convuluded contradictio contradictions. for that, he has to recant. what was your reaction to watching trump say that and then the backlash from the folks in the anti-abortion movement? >> it was fascinating because it's hard to make any logic of the position that the anti-choice movement has in this regard. they use the terminology murder, as you said. then at the same time they try
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to walk back from any position that would be perceived as condemning women who choose to have an abortion. the fact of the matter is that the pro-life movement, for a very long time, has been all about punishing women who are wanting to choose an abortion in this country. that punishment has come in the form of making sure that they remove that access step by step, dismantling roe v wade. they have prohibited so many women to be able to access that care. >> i had a moment when i was watching this all play out over the course of the day and the backlash where it occurred in some ways it's almost, what is happened in texas or mississippi is the best case scenario for that movement. confronting the reality of what criminalizing abortion would be
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would provoke such widespread dismay from the american public. it's better to have it officially legal but totally inaccessible as the status quo they can aim for, but don't have to deal with donald trump stepping out of line. >> what's so interesting is while they clearly offended a great number of people. it's already not very good. what he said yesterday wasn't necessarily any kind of anomaly. when you look at the actions of so many others, ted cruz, john kasich himself as governor, each of them has been anti-choice and anti-access to women's
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reproductive health care in all of its forms. they have created a dynamic where women have been punished. they've been relegated to a system where they can no longer access basic health care. so many women in texas were receiving their only health care from these family planning clinics that closed when planned parenthood and other clinics were starved for funds. not only can they not get cancer screens or std screens, they can't get contraception. the idea that women ought to be forced into getting pregnant and where in texas they can no longer access abortion truly does relegate them to punishment. i appreciated the fact that donald trump put into words what they've been doing all along. >> it also occurred if you want to make the distinction between an abortionist and the woman,
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often that would be the same person. we know that women resort to attempting to terminate their own pregnancies. then there would have to be some criminal punishment needed out. >> no question about it. there already are women who are under criminal investigation or allegations because they have either self-induced or because they've helped another person to obtain an abortion in violation of the law. it's already the dynamic on the ground in this country that that is happening. again, donald trump put the words to the reality. >> wendy davis, thank you for joining me. appreciate it. if you thought caucusing is a weird and possibly not particularly democratic process. wait until you hear how north dakota does it. i'll explain, ahead. is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves?
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big scoop on the hillary clinton e-mail story. >> 147 people on the fbi case is humongous. >> 147 are involved. >> new developments in the federal investigation into hillary clinton's private e-mail server. a staggering 147 fbi agents are on this case right now. >> that story reported by the washington post would be a huge deal, if true. that would be a ton of fbi agents. for instance, in investigation into the oklahoma city bombing, the largest act of home grown terrorism, there were 120 special agents based in oklahoma city and more agents at fbi
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headquarters in washington working on the case according to the fbi website. in the washington post it would suggest there's a criminal investigation of truly high titanic status. it would have been news very a very good reason. here's the thing. that number, 147, was not correct. it was not even close to correct. here's the washington post's own correction. an earlier version of this article reported that 147 fbi agents have been detailed to the investigation, according to lawmaker briefed. two u.s. law enforcement officials have since told the washington post the figure is too high. the fbi will not provide an exact figure but officials say it's fewer than 50. according to msnbc, a former federal law enforcement official tells msnbc an estimate anywhere near 50 agents is also off base.
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there are currently about 12 fbi agents working full-time in the case. the source could only speak anonymo anonymously. you think the correction will get as much attention as the original report. how does that happen? more importantly, why does this keep happening with stories about hillary clinton? we're going to take a closer look at this, next. or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction,
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so, the story comes out this
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week from the washington post, there's 147 fbi agents assigned to the hillary clinton e-mail investigation that made everyone think, that's a major investigation. that's not true. there's 12 agents working on the case according to a source with direct knowledge working on the case. 147 was such a ridiculous number adding that 50 also sounded unrealistic. you need an act of terrorism to get 50 agents working on something said the former fbi official. how did the washington post get it so wrong? look at the washington post original source. according to lawmaker briefed by fbi director. it's safe bet he was a republican in congress who leaked this knowing full well it would look terrible for hillary clinton. this has now become a pattern. an unknown source leaks and there's a lot less to it. the number was so prepost roupr.
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>> the number was originally floated by fox news in january. for the washington post that should have been the first red flag. there's this massive, not only e-mail investigation, a clinton corruption. clinton foundation. this was going to go on for years. that was the story fox was telling. no one else could confirm it. it was an only an investigation that fox could figure out. that should have been a red flag. if a story is too good, czeheck it. this is the clinton rules. you throw everything out, and fst the wrong, nobody pays the price. >> the key part of this. i want to go back to may 2013. we've been on air for about a month. big knew piece on abc exclusive benghazi talking points under
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went 12 revisions scrubbed of terror. then the original full e-mail chain showed the source was wrong. it was a full day story, four-day story and the e-mail chain came out. >> republican staffers just feeding this stuff. >> this case is a member of congress. it said lawmaker. >> we saw the pattern with bengha benghazi. we've seen it with e-mails. go back to travel gate. we create these investigations. republicans are briefed on them and they spin these fantastic tales to the press who types it up because they think it's great story. >> it's a story. if it were true. >> every time, every time when we go through it, these facts don't hold up. then the washington post.
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they're not going to make any change in their anonymous sourcing policy. we're just going to keep doing this. new york times last summer, hillary is the target of a criminal investigation. >> famous leak. it was walked back. >> once you put that in the pipeline, once you put that out there, wait, hillary is going to be indicted. you can't walk that back. i haven't seen many news organizations try to walk it back in the last 48 hours. >> the other part about this is when you talk to republican voters at campaign events when we've been on the trail, a very high percentage think it's essentially a foregone conclusion, she will be indicted. that's a probable event. that's been because in that world, not just in the mainstream media, particularly in the conservative media, this just an imminent thing. >> yes, the orange jump suit.
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there will be impeachment hearings. why would you believe anything else? the problem is when we start having the washington post on the edges. in terms of the e-mails, there was a piece in the l.a. time, associated press rounded up experts, american prospect had university of michigan law professor, all going into detail. legally there's no there there. no one will be indicted according to all these experts. that should be the starting point. not the opposite of when will she be indicted. >> is there reason to critique her or question her judgment. is there a criminal investigation larger than the oklahoma city bombing happening? there's a pretty wide gulf. >> there's a pretty wide gulf. very interesting things about the clinton s the
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criminalization. it goes back to the '90s and need to criminalize a bill on hillary. >> ted cruz sort of waxing poetic about her turning in her jail cell. thank you. two new videos from outside the same donald trump rally. one that is disturbing and the other one that's, well, we'll let you be the judgment. we'll play them both. don't go anywhere. just ahead. rick 1) how about a % raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, (vo) go national. go like a pro.
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it's my job and it's i takealso my passion.rises. but with my back pain i couldn't sleep...
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so i couldn't get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12-hour strength of aleve... for pain relief that can last into the morning. and now... i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. police in jamesville, wisconsin is looking for a suspect who pepper sprayed a 15-year-old girl. authorities believe this man used pepper spray on the girl. here is how this unfolded. it shows the 15-year-old who was chanting black lives plaert accuse a white man of groping her. she punched the man in the cheek. police said there's no evidence the man groped her and he's not
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being investigated. the man declined to press charges. she was referred to juvenile for disorderly conduct. what happened immediately after the punch when another person pepper sprayed the 15-year-old girl in the face. >> hey. >> police are asking for the public's help in identifying the pepper spray suspect and say she could face charges of battery. the pepper spray teenager left to receive medical attention. just as disturbing in my view is what was shouted at her after she was pepper sprayed. >> now you [ bleep ] get out of here. >> n word lover. get out of here.
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something we find ourselves saying a lot. campaigns do not control who the supporters are or how they act. there's been a disturbing pattern of violence by trump supporters. in the full interest of equal time and being balanced, we'll show you something that happened at the same rally that ended with this. >> it's a [ bleep ] circus. look. look. >> look at the monkey. look at the monkey. >> i did that on purpose. >> we'll play that full video after this short break. stick with us. and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount. we're building what we learn back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer.
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>> i'm smoking pot. that's what i'm spoking, lady. i'm smoking the green. you think i'm on drugs because i hate this -- you [ bleep ]. i just gave you what you wanted. i gave you what you wanted. it's a circus. i did that on purpose. it's all a show here. >> in case you missed it, we'll show that dismount one more time. >> it's a [ bleep ] circus everybody. look. . look. >> look at the monkey. >> i did that on purpose. >> the protesters out there, please, don't be that guy. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. ♪ when it's go, the new choice privileges gets you there faster.
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here's a story that might seem a little off topic but seemed pretty important to me. what if scientists are wrong about global warming? meaning they have been
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underestimating how bad it's going to be. there's new evidence that's exactly what's happening and the nightmare, worst case scenario will unfold in decades whether than centuries. the massive west antarctic ice sheet is melting fast than they thought. the total rise of sea would reach five or six feet by 2100, which is so high it will provoke a crisis within the lifetime of children being born today. to explain all this i'm joined by climate scientist. professor, what is being revealed that we didn't realize before? >> bottom line is if we went back ten years or so, we felt we would see only one or two feet of sea level rise per century due to expanding of the ocean as it warms and melting of ice on land. at first ten years ago we thought it was the temperature of the air that could melt the surface of the ice. what we have learned in the last ten years is there are a number of insidious ways the land based
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ice can melt and make its way to the sea. it's not just the air touching it. it's changing dynamics that cause it to move. in this case an instability along the cliff where the water meets the air. >> we're learning all these things about how the die ma'yna. what does that mean? >> we realize we're only learning about these processes as we begin to observe them. that suggests right up front that we can't predict exactly how much change we'll get but the more we push the system, the more we allow increase in greenhouse gases to push us outside of things we've experienced in the past, the greater the risk of these frankenstein surprises whether it's change in sea level, rang of possibilities. >> the different between two feet and six feet seems like a
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lot. what does that mean in the in inhab inhabitability of america's coast. what does that mean? >> it turns a flood event that happens every hundred years into something you can expect every decade. >> that completely alters the has be habiability of places. >> you don't have the financial recours recourses. there have be to be retreat. >> retreat. thank you for being here. appreciate that. why the hottest place is none other than fargo, north dakota. i'll explain after this break.
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some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. we've been talking about the two separate races under way in the republican presidential election. the public race to win votes and the stealth campaign to pick up loyal delegates to get them to the convention this summer this cleveland. donald trump may be winning at the ballot, he's this danger of being out organized in the delegate race. that's why he threatened to sue in louisiana where he may come out with fewer delegates than ted cruz despite having won the
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popularity vote. amid growing signs that trump may not have the wherewithal to get enough votes supporters are now preparing to revolt. >> be in cleveland for the week of that convention. be there. we're going to absolutely show the world the real power. we need five million constitutional trumpists to be there, show that all the filth that the establishment does not steal the popular vote from the people. >> republican national committee man, a popular vote doesn't matter at all. it's the delegates who pick the nominee regardless of how the citizens in the state voted. >> the delegates are not bound. they are free to vote their
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conscience. anything is possible because the convention of the republican party is the highest authority of the republican party and they can do anything they want. >> nowhere is the party in in control. the voters are cut out of process. some hold primaries and some hold caucuses. there's back and forth over which model is the most representative. north dakota holds the state convention. no voters needed at all. thank you very much. that convention kicks off this fargo. two of the campaign will go there to make their case. ben carson is scheduled to speak at a sunday morning session not till after all the delegates have been elected. joining me now is former north dakota party chair. he's running to be a north dakota delegate and national political correspondent for the
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washington post. describe the kinds of people that are going to be running like yourself to be delegates to this convention. >> thank you for having me. just about 2,000 people at the delegate, state convention. they come from party faithful people that have been involved in the district process whether the district chairman, precinct committee people and if they wand to be a delegate, they apply to the state party. there's a committee that reviews them. then they select a slate of delegates to the state convention. the floor's open for anything that wants to be a delegate. an election is held from the 2020 0 2000 delegates on the floor. >> you say, it's open to everyone. there's a criteria. you have to have a certain, meet
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certain criteria. history of work for the republican party. monetary contributions. never attended a national convention. all these go into the mix of who ends up being elected to be a delegate. >> that's correct. part of the point of it is that people that go to a convention are typically the activist. it's a different process. the party decided to unbind the delegates. a territory of 112 delegates that are unbound. north dakota chose not to have a primary, taxpayers money. didn't have a ku kus and decided to let the delegates be unbound. if donald trump doesn't get to his number, he's going to be in a position to play a pivotal role. >> you're going to be incredibly popular. i love the scenario of it coming down to north dakota.
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to me, what i'm hearing here is it just matters, increasingly matters who's in that room in cleveland. when you get into the nitty gritty, i don't think the north dakota folks will be trump favorable because they're people with a history with the republican party. >> that's key. the congressman here, held online poll a couple of months ago of who voters supported. trump wanted narrowly but it was not screened the way they wanted it. they scrambled late. it's easy to laugh at ben carson. he had probably the best organization in terms of getting delegates, bringing grass roots people into the movement making sure they are registered the
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right way. his two to lieutenants will be at the convention. they're not going to let this delegates just slip by. they are not blundering the way it looks from outside. >> first of all, are you telling folks who you favor and if not, how are you going to make up your mind? >> first of all, i've probably leaned a bit towards donald trump because maybe a tea party or party chairman, i think there needs to be shake up in washington, i'm really not for a candidate. i think there's plenty of time between now and the convention that we have time to decide what's going to happen. i would say there's a lot of people that are going to be applying to be delegates that are establishment. i think you have john kasich in advantage in the process. at the end of the day donald trump doesn't have the ground game that ted cruz has.
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the cruz campaign and you've seen it through the caucuses and conventions. cruz will have an advantage of getting people that will be delegates from north dakota. >> dave, the question i have is, who knows how to do this the best? what we're headed toward sis there's not a will the of practice with this. folks are just not used to like the internal mechanisms of manipulating the rules and the levers of the party apparatus to win these kinds of battles. >> cruz's campaign knows how to do it well. i would add the candidate's father is in the state trying to get people to become delegates. they definitely have won the organization game in that round. in terms of understanding how the larger process works, the team that trump puts together late in the day includes veterans of the 1976 contested convention. there's also a sort of alliance
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between trump and cruz in a couple of respects. try to stack the rules committee so there's a hard cap on how you need eight states to be nominated. they think they have the best chance. cruz, and trump's campaign think they have the best chance of n winning if they kick this down. they're already kind of working together even as they work against each other as they make that happen. the trump people are a bit more sophisticated than we're letting on. no one would pretend the cruz people don't have a lead here. >> the rule 40, you'll hear a lot more about rule 40. it will be one of the most controversial and important parts of this entire open convention because as dave said it sets the threshold. you have to have one majority in
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eight states. >> it was rule created for ron paul. >> we'll see if that holds, cruz and trump have interest to keep that and keep other people out. thank you very much. that's "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow shows start now. good evening. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. the airport in peoria, aillinoi is not what you call a big airport. it's the big downing peoria airport. it's only served by four passenger airlines. i can't tell what the international flights are. i'm sorry. i know there must be some, but i couldn't find them. still, if you live near peoria, illinois, there's a chance this lovely piece of infrastructure is your airport. today, it shut down. it wasn't like a temporary