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welcome back. i'm joy reid here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. the democratic caucus will begin in wyoming soon. we expect to have some initial results around 3:00 p.m. eastern time. there's been no polling so far in the cowboy state. but western caucus states have been very good to senator bernie sanders. in colorado, meanwhile, the state's republican assembly is under way to select the delegates in july. delegate selection is proving to be as important in the primary election's process as the caucuses and primaries themselves. as a contested convention becomes increasingly likely. but if donald trump plays his cards right, he could still reach that magic number. our own steve kornacki has more on the math. >> all right, joy, thanks. this comes down to delegates, obviously. let's look at the republican side first. a lot of talk after donald trump's loss in wisconsin that that's it, we have an open convention. he won't get to 1,237. not so fast in that one.

there is still a scenario for donald trump to get there, to not have the open convention. i want to show what that would look like. 757 right now. 1,237. let's take a look at what is still to come on the republican side here the rest of the way. here it is. the states you see shaded in, the states still to vote, the number of delegates up for grabs in those states when they vote. remember, donald trump right now, 756. he's got a ways to go. but here's the good news. new york next. the overwhelming favorite. the way the delegate rules work there, he could easily be at 850 after new york votes on april 19th. what comes after that? a bunch of states in the northeast. pennsylvania, connecticut, rhode island, maryland. they go a week later. delaware, as well. if donald trump hits what he should hit in those states, that 850 could become 950. he could win the lion's share of those delegates. where else could he look on this map to move up? not until the end of the process, but new jersey will

vote. if he wins there, now over 1,000. how about west virginia in may? that 1,001 could become 1030 if he gets the win he could get out of west virginia. look at indiana may 3. this is a big wild card. you could make a case after wisconsin this now is the kind of state cruz is going to do well in. you could also make a case this is a trump state. there is a big difference here in terms of delegates between winning by a few votes and losing by a few votes. let's say trump wins. that's a big if. probably worth at least 42 delegates. that 1030 would jump up to 1072 with a trump win there. let's move west. let's take these states off the board. these are three states that are winner take all, and really, really look like ted cruz states. let's say trump gets wiped out there. we could go to new mexico. trump could have a new day in mexico. half of 24 would put him at 1084

and three states on the pacific coast. california, oregon, washington. california gives out the delegates by congressional districts. it's tough to read now. we know trump is leading the polls there statewide. we don't know how that would breakdown. let's say he got 120 delegates in california. he's getting close here. oregon, let's say he picked up after the delegates in oregon. that 1,204 is now sitting at 1,218. let's say you picked up half the delegates in washington. 1,218, plus 22. 1,240 and that's bigger than 1,237. donald trump could still get there. obviously, some wild cards on the board. indiana, california, how he does in the northeast. there is still a path for donald trump. meanwhile, on the democratic side. let's take a look at the democratic standings right now. so the complicated thing here is always the super delegates versus pledge delegates.

if it you talk to the sanders people, this drives them nuts when you talk about super delegates. they're not locked in right now. they could change their minds at the convention. they say they're for hillary clinton. could change their minds. they're not locked in. sanders people are always saying look at this column in the middle. allocated or pledged. these are the delegates given out in primaries or caucuses. right now hillary clinton, she leads by 246 in the pledged allocated delegate category. good news for sanders. this is not counting washington state. they still have to give out the delegates. so that 246 is going to come all the way down to 210. when that gets done. so 210. sanders' campaign says if we can undo that deficit in the remaining primaries and caucuses, then those super delegates will have to relook and say -- there will be pressure on them to go with the candidate with the most pledge delegates. that's their theory. let's see if they can erase that 210. these are the states still to

come on the democratic side. sanders needs to win by more than 210. now, here's the first thing the first problem for sanders is this. and it has to do with something happening to do. caucuses playing out in wyoming and later in north dakota. bad news for sanders, these are the only two caucus states left. he's done a lot better in caucuses than primaries. only two left on the board. the rest of these are primaries. some of these are closed primaries. that means no independents can vote in them. again, independents voting that's also been good for bernie sanders. those are hurdles for him looking forward. big states left, california, new york, pennsylvania, new jersey, maryland. you add those states together, that is two-thirds of all of the delegates that are left out there. so here's the thing for sanders. if you look at all the smaller states that are left, not the big ones i just mentioned, he has a chance to rack up decent margins in those states. if we use really, really favorable be scenarios for sanders, we say he wins most of

them, wins most of them big, he could knock about 125 off that 210, okay? he then needs to make up about 85 delegates in those big states. but that's where it gets complicated. new york is a really good example. look at this. 247 delegates up for grabs. sanders right now, he's within striking distance of hillary clinton. but he still trails. if he wins this state, it would be a big upset. it's winnable. but let's say he wins and it's close. that's what it looks like. the best case scenario, he wins in new york. 247 delegates, would probably get 130 in that scenario. hillary clinton would get the other 117. again, this would be a really good outcome for bernie sanders. and yet what would that net him? that's a difference of only 13 delegates. again, he's got to knock off 85 here. that might only bring it down to 72. even if he wins new york. and you could go down through these big states. maryland is a really good example. this is a closed primary state. large african-american population. very tough to see sanders w

winning there. if he makes it a ball game but still loses in maryland, he's losing ground. that 72 could jump back up to 85 there. so bernie sanders needs sort of the perfect storm scenario here. i'm not going to say it's impossible. it is doable. he's got to win new york. he's got to win pennsylvania. he's got to win new jersey. he's got to win california. he's got to win all of this stuff in the middle. he's got to win a lot by big margins. he's got to lose maryland, but by a very slim margin. he's really got to hold her margin down there. everything has to go his way if he's going to erase 210. it may not seem like a big number in the grand scheme of these. when hillary clinton says she feels about about her standing in the got race, she has good reason to. that's where it stands in both parties now, joy. >> all right. thank you, steve kornacki, for that delicious and nutritious math snack. what do the voting lines at primaries in arizona and wisconsin have to do with the

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college student voting in wisconsin this week faced long lines, sometimes hours long as they jumped through the many hoops to get registered and proper i.d. to vote. under draconian wisconsin voting law, most don't count. the justice department launched an investigation into arizona's primary last month where people waited for five hours to cast their votes after maricopa county officials drastically reduced the number of polling places. joining me now is nina perez from the bread and center voting rights election process and scott ross.

thank you for being here. i'm going to start with you just to give us what does that mean that the justice department is investigating arizona without the voting rights act protections? what could they theoretically do? >> right now, the way to think about this is that the voting rights act prevents two kinds of problems. one, people discriminating against folks on purpose. there's been allegations that particular communities were deprived of an appropriate amount of polling locations. the other thing it does is make sure it doesn't happen on accident. someone is just not planning well, because in order to get a change in the election system, you have to make the case, and be able to demonstrate this is not going to make minority voters worse off. someone was doing something they shouldn't have done on purpose or someone didn't think about how -- what the changes they were making was going to be having the impact it would. and the departmedepartment of j going to look to see if there was intentional discrimination or if it had another problem of

being discriminatory in result. >> and could there be sanctions and if so, what could the sanctions be from the federal government if they find it was intentional? >> there is still a functioning part of the voting rights act called section 2. it applies nationwide. and under it, it allows a lawsuit to be brought against a jurisdiction if they decide to make an election practice, one in which is going to either intentionally discriminate against voters or make minority voters not have an equal opportunity to elect their candidate. >> section 2, clarence thomas wanted gotten rid. let's go to wisconsin and talk about what is allowed and not allowed under the wisconsin law. a wisconsin driver's license, okay, i.d., okay. but if you look at the things not allowed any more, not only in out of state driver's license or federal employee i.d. but also a college i.d. meaning that unless you can have

some separate proof of enrollme enrollment, the college i.d. in the system like the university of wisconsin with 180,000 students, in your view, how onerous is that requirement? >> well, joy, it's extremely onerous. government walker, the five-year assault on voter rights in wisconsin legislatively is part and -- part and parcel of that. we have 26 university of wisconsin campuses and only three of them does the i.d. that the university issues count. i point out that also governor walker basically controls the board of regions now for the entire university of wisconsin system. and they have not made calls that their i.d.s on campuses should be compliant with the onerous voter i.d. law. so i think that, you know, we saw those long lines. the effort is under way to suppress the vote in wisconsins, as it has been for years under governor walker. and i think that students are really taking a look at what happened, and i think they're

going to respond in kind under the november elections. we certainly are fighting it in court. our suit will be in federal court in may to try and overturn all of these restrictions on voter rights. and i think it's important, because students have been under assault by governor walker. he has cut $1 billion from the university in technical college systems since he has been in office and we have risen from tenth in the nation in percentage of graduates of student loan dead all the way up to third. >> wow. and to the point that you made earlier about intentional versus accidental results of changing voting legislation, i want you to listen to a united states congressman. his name is glen growthman, a republican congressman. and he actually spoke directly on tuesday night to what in his view was the intent of the wisconsin voter i.d. law. let's take a listen. >> you know that a lot of republicans since 1984 in the presidential races have not been able to win in wisconsin. why would it be different for ted cruz or a donald trump? >> well, i think hillary clinton is about the weakest candidate the democrats have ever put up. and now we have photo i.d.

and i think photo i.d. is going to make a difference as well. >> he directly said, now we have photo i.d. and i think photo i.d. is going to make a big difference as well. is that a demonstration of intent? >> we have a system where politicians are trying to manipulate the rules of the game so some people can participate and some can't. that is a very damning and concerning fact that should have a lot of people outraged. when people see long lines like that, they think of one of two things. they either think government incompetencies or they think political shenanigans, and in both cases undermine the integrity of our elections and undermine competence in our elections. >> absolutely. i want to come back to you, scott, on the real-world impact of what we saw happen in wisconsin in that vote last tuesday. and look at a vote down ticket that i know was a big concern to you, and you guys at one wisconsin now. and that was a supreme court case. a woman named rebecca bradley is going to serve a ten-year bid on the supreme court. the 5-2 conservative majority

being locked in. look at clinton and sanders. cloppen berg was the democrat running. 92% voted for cloppenberg. 4% skipped the race all together. and thsanders voters. 79% for: enberg, 12% skipping the ballot. what does that say to you, scott ross? >> one thing is that it -- we have heard a lot about talk radio in wisconsin pushing out the stop trump effort. and talk radio in wisconsin, before stop trump ever started, they were about stopping voting. and so the consistent theme there is voter fraud in the state of wisconsin has been the talking point of talk radio in wisconsin for the last dozen years. the fact is, under oath, the wisconsin department of justice, the republican-controlled wisconsin department of justice could not prove one instance of in-person voter fraud in the entire state of wisconsin, and

we're talking about 17 million ballots cast between 2004 and 2014. there is no voter fraud in the state of wisconsin. and i think mean that said it personal. the only thing going on are partisan politicians rigging the laws for political gain. >> you have now a locked-in conservative majority on the supreme court. doesn't that bode ill for any attempts to litigate those voting laws in the state of wisconsin? >> we need -- >> first mean that and then you, scott. >> we need many prongs and many approaches to try and protect our right to vote. we need people in the courts, people in the legislatures and people in the streets. the right to vote is one of our most fundamental rights, and we need to protect it. and it is under siege in many quarters of our country. and the way to do that is make sure all of the institutions of power are getting the pressure to protect the right to vote. >> and scott, did the presidential primary candidate, senators clinton and former secretary clinton and senator sanders, drop the ball on that

supreme court race, full-stop? >> well, i mean, they talked about -- i mean, they talked about the race and they tried to mobilize things. i think the important point here is that, you know, the state supreme court is not going to have the last say on voter rights in the state of wisconsin. we have a federal lawsuit about voter i.d., about the end of weekend voting. about legislating in-person in the voting places. we look to to fight all of those things, including student ids. >> since wisconsin was not cord, can a section 2, federal action be brought against the state like wisconsin that wasn't covered in the first place? >> there is a section 2 claim going up and down in the courts. section 2 is also being used in the state of texas, which also has an interesting photo i.d. law. i'm one the litigators. it doesn't allow you to use your university of texas student i.d., but you could use your concealed gun license i.d.

this is an example of these politicians trying to surgically remove certain people from participating in our system. >> and we just have the case, a huge case decided by the now 4-4 supreme court, because the attempt there -- explain that a little bit, what they were trying to do in terms of not letting even sort of districts be drawn, counting the whole population. >> right. and it's important to remember that in the case of the case, the texas was the defendant. texas wasn't the one that moved forward on it. a group of political activists trying to make it the rule such that you only -- you drew lines on the basis of who was a citizen of a voting age, which means that communities that have non -- that have immigrant populations not naturalized, communities with children, would be basically wiped off the map. because they wouldn't get the kind of representation they needed, notwithstanding the fact that there were people in those districts using services, making demands upon their legislature, trying to have voices through the voters that they coalesce

with. >> and scott, last question to you. of how concerned are you guys at one wisconsin now that the vote in november is going to be severely impacted negatively by this still in place voter i.d. law in your state? >> well, definitely. there's definite concerns. the republican strategy for the last 40 years has been create long lines in urban and student centers so people give up and go home instead of voting. and now scott walker and glen growthman wrote those laws into law. we're going to be in court in may and hopefully prevail. >> thank you both for being here. really appreciate it. do the words "contested convention" maybe you happy or terrified? we'll explain exactly what a contested convention means, next. ♪ ♪

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it's a prospect the republican establishment is actively plan for, given the unlikely hood their nemesis, donald trump, will have the 1237 needed outright. so what is a contested convention? put simply, it's a convention where no candidate has amassed the magic number of delegates to be nominated on the first ballot. when that happens, the delegates each pledged to a candidate become free to vote for whomever they want. and so there's a second or maybe a third ballot or maybe more votes on the floor to try and get someone to have the magic must be. along with lots of horse trading and promises and maybe a few threats and sometimes total chaos. 60 democratic and republican conventions between 1868 and 1984, eight republicans and ten democrats were nominated on multiple ballots and only seven

went on to be elected president. by far the craziest took place at new york's madison square garden in 1924. when democrats took 16 days and 103 ballots to nominate john w. davis over the front runners. al smith and former woodrow wilson cabinet member william j. mcadoo who happened to be supported by the clan. 1976 was the last time republicans held an open convention, which erupted into chaos in kansas city, as former california governor, ronald reagan battled sitting president, gerald ford, for the nod. >> georgia does have a majority of its delegates supporting the nomination of ronald reagan. >> sometimes things get worked out before the first ballot. think dwight eisenhower who did not actively run in any primaries or caucuses but natured on the first first ballot in 1952. or the famous battle between

jimmy carter and edward kennedy in 1980 where carter had the votes but kennedy tried and failed to get a rule change to free the pledged delegates on the first ballot. the last person to become president after being nominated on something other than the first ballot, franklin delano roosevelt in 1932. no wonder republicans have the heebie-jeebies. who gives you disco and black and white footage? we do. next week, hillary clinton and bernie sanders will go head-to-head. we'll have a preview, after the break. .

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that was bernie sanders in washington heights here in new york city. after weeks of fighting over when, where and how to have an empire state cannot debate, hillary clinton and bernie sanders have agreed on the details of their next battle of wits. april 14th at the brooklyn navy yard, which will be the venue. giving the candidates their first chance to square off in

person since this week's war of words over just what qualifies someone to be president. joining me now, juan manuel bow neat easy, michelle goldberg and jason johnson. manuel, new york one will be at the table in that debate, your colleaguer roll lewis moderating. what do you expect to be the first questions out of the gate for bernie sanders and hillary clinton? >> hopefully we'll get some substance questions. if new york one is co sponsoring, that will happen. we're going to talk about education, truly important to many communities in the city and also all across the state. energy policy really important. also with the recurrent problems at indian point, maybe fracking. all issues really important. also jobs for new york. so hopefully it will be a really substantive debate a few days before the primary. >> absolutely. you know also, michelle, that new york daily "news now" sort of infamous interview, you figure that's going to come up. so much there. >> i'm sure it will come up both

substantively, a chance to relitigate issues about how you break up big banks. what the impact on the economy will be and where the jobs will go. also, whether bernie sanders can explain his signature issue in a more clear and concise way than he was able to do then, when he seemed to only be able to speak in a level of really broad generalities about the issue at the center of his entire campaign. >> especially in new york. i want to play these updated version of it. bernie sanders had a second crack with our own "morning joe." and this is how he framed the breaking up the big banks issue this week. >> by what authority and how would you go breaking up the largest financial institutions in the country? >> are you ready for the answers? >> of i'm ready. i want to hear it. >> in a couple ways. one, you could use section 121 of the dodd/frank legislation. number two, and i would prefer,

pass my legislation. and when my legislation, the legislation i've introduced, says that the secretary of the treasury will have the authority to investigate and determine which banks pose systemic risk to our economy. ie, too big to fail, bring a significant part of the economy and within a period of time the secretary can break them up. >> so obviously he was prepped better than with the daily news interview. i asked tad divine and he said that's what he meant all along. >> no. he didn't know the answer when it mattered and just ran and crammed his books and now sounds smarter. bernie sanders is a bright guy and will be perfectly capable of answering questions during the debate. it goes to the larger argument the clintons have been pushing for months and months. he's got great ideas but doesn't know how to execute. the same they used against president obama. it's not going to be something that will matter. but it's something that sort of stays in the ether about whether

or not bernie sanders is ready for prime time. >> i feel like there is a lot of bernie-centric discussion that will take place. guns is an issue very fraught in new york, strict gun laws here and also i guess a lot of issues around reticence about crime in the era of bill de blasio whether or not that's true. what do you expect to hear directed at bernie sanders on guns, and is guns a vulnerability for him in new york? >> yes, i think we'll be listening to the same arguments that both campaigns have been putting forward. i don't know if it's going to be that special, that issue here in new york city, or in new york state. i think other issues are going to be more prominent, more important for the electorate. and let me go back. i think education is extremely important for african-americans and latinos in this city and in this state. public education is huge and if that argument or that proposal that bernie sanders has in his platform about free public

education, public university, it's huge. resonating with a lot of minorities like african-american latino students that now are in the cuny system here and it's important for them and for the parents. will that make a difference, though? we'll see at the primary. >> it's going to be interesting to see if bernie sanders is asked to explain the mechanics. i haven't heard him ask. i want to go to michelle and what hillary clinton will face. everyone is relate litigating the '90s. it really impacted new york for better and for worse. do you expect that to come up, and how much jeopardy is hillary clinton in on that issue? >> i don't think that -- i think that it's an issue that can make it a little bit more difficult for her liberal supporters who are arguing with their bernie or bust friends to defend hillary clinton's record, right? and bill clinton made it so much worse, not because i think he

confronted the black lives matter protester, but because everybody wants to forget the language that hillary clinton, but not just hillary clinton, almost all democrats used about crime in the '90s. right? the political context is so different now. hillary clinton has apologized for the super predators language that she used back then. so for bill clinton to -- bill clinton has apologized for elements of the '94 crime bill. for him to then return to defending it and to defend in essence that language, you know -- 13-year-olds hopped up on crack. you know, it makes it that -- it makes it that much more difficult. part of the problem is that she is trying to distance herself from parts of her husband's legacy while yolking herself to obama's legacy. you know, as i've written, i think there is part of bill clinton that doesn't want to let her do that. >> he's defending himself more than defending her at this point. and i wondered, because when we talk about new york, anybody here in the '80s and '90s know

there is a particular problem i haven't heard either candidate address. even though hillary clinton became a united states senator during the peak of the issues like the actual issues of police brutality in new york. do you expect that to come up at the debate and should it? >> it has to. these are issues that resonate in new york city and hillary clinton didn't do much when she was senator here. and bill clinton promoted policies back in the day. >> bernie sanders didn't talk about did in the '80s. >> he didn't have to. people are saying, you're forgetting the policy. you can't pick and choose what you like. i will say this. looking back at some of bill clinton's rhetoric, he had a huge fight with an aids activist in new york. said i don't want to have to hear this crap. ended up winning anyway. so apparently being a fighter and arguing, maybe that works out right before you go to the new york primary. he clearly seems to have this thing, i'm going to defend

myself. >> even to the detriment of his wife's campaign. is there a danger that the debate, you know, that new york one is going toub to be a part of, it leaves out the whole vast rest of the state, rural, issues like fracking might be of interest to them. do we risk having it just be such a new york city debate that it leaves out the rest of the state? >> i doubt it. time warner cable news watched all over the state, those questions will be on the panel also. it's a wide ranging debate that will be watched by all the political viewers, all across the state. so i don't think those issues are going to be forgotten. and going back to your point, i think it's really interesting, though, that how bill clinton has backtracked. before, like months ago, or years ago, we wouldn't have seen bill clinton backtracking something like that. what we see here is the hillary clinton campaign, they want to make sure they win in new york. that they don't have any surprises. also because the rules in the

primary -- if sanders goes above 42%, he might end up with almost the same amount of delegates after the primary than hillary clinton, even if she wins. >> can you imagine a scenario in which hillary clinton doesn't win new york? >> sure. they're seven points apart -- >> i think it's 13 in the latest polling. >> so there has been spreads like that in michigan. it certainly seems conceivable. i think it's unlikely, but i don't think that they can take it for granted. >> what would that do to her campaign to lose this state? >> i'm pretty sure she would still be ahead. but i think it would be a sort of devastating blow, you know, not just because she represented this state as a senator, but also because, you know, part of the argument for hillary clinton is her electability, is her ability to mobilize not just kind of the liberal grass roots or not just the white liberal grass roots but the base of the

party which new york is a huge cross section. if she can't do that here, i think it would -- just in terms of -- in terms of people's confidence and her ability to carry the democratic banner in november, would be catastrophic. >> it's interesting how both have different competing claims on new york. bernie sanders has born in brooklyn, hillary clinton represented in the senate but is not a native new yorker. they're making competing claims. does that matter, the sort of weird authenticities will l whiting the subway. >> they're both vaguely carpet bagger-ish. i think the thing is this. hillary clinton needs to win big. she doesn't want to win by a small amount. i don't have that kind of imagination. i don't imagine her losing in new york. if she does, people will be pouring out liquor and it will be over. i don't think she'll let that happen. she has to win by a large amount. if bernie sanders comes out in new york and hits the high 30s

and says, look, this is her home state and how well i did, she hasn't put him over. she wants to put him out of this race. >> and then i come to you one more time. the hispanic community has been a wild card, because hillary clinton dominates among african-american voters but does seem like the latino vote is more in play. do you see that being the case in new york? >> i think the more latinos hear about bernie sanders, the more they listen to what he has to say. hillary clinton has deep roots in the hispanic community in the state of new york. but at the same time, maybe some are experiencing the same kind of fatigue than some democratic voters are feeling during this primary and might start going for bernie sanders. however, let's be honest and most of the electorate and latino electorate in the city and the state of new york is older people. and that generation, this year is going more for hillary clinton. all the young voters are less

reliable and really energetic, but are they going to vote on tuesday? >> i guess we'll come back and it's a closed primary state. cannot emphasize how important that is. my guests will be back later in the program. and you don't want to miss our panel's picks on who won the week. stay with us. ♪ ♪ (laughing) there's nothing like making their day. except making sure their tomorrow is taken care of too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can.

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guilty to illegal banking charge. his sentencing takes place april 27th. it does not include the alleged incidences of sexual abuse which date back to the 1970s and '80s. the federal and state statutes of limitations have expired to known sexual acts. the government seeks to hold him accountable for the crimes he committed. the structuring of cash withdrawals and lies to the government. prosecutors seek a prison sentence up to six months. but the judge could sentence hastert to as long as five years. hastert's attorneys are seeking probation, citing health problems and personal toll he has suffered from the scandal. we'll be right back.

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. welcome back. we are not going to do ladies first because we are not about that gender stereotyping. we're going to go to you first, jason, who won the week? >> we're going to talk about donald trump. offensive, sexist and misogynistic things he said, he won the week. after a nasty two-week span of saying everything possible to offend everyone, he's falling in the arms of his home state of new york, he's going to get a huge victory and it will be a boost. >> what does it mean after losing wisconsin and that being a huge story about talk radio vanquishing him, the likelihood he sweeps up the delegates. >> i think he'll sweep up the delegates. ted cruz is floundering so much, no one likes john kasich here. no one has heard of john kasich here and that new york values thing has completely blown up in ted cruz's face. trump will get the momentum he needs. we'll have a contested convention. >> i bet ted cruz wishes he was was more likable. juan, who won the week? >> i think bronx and new york city. >> yes! >> we always talk about how hip and modern and fashionable brooklyn is and the headquarters of hillary clinton's campaign and also bernie sanders are in

brooklyn. however, we saw this week how the candidates were going to the bronx to campaign. >> absolutely. >> more or less success fli but we had people like ted cruz, john kasich, hillary clinton walking around in the neighborhood in south bronx and also getting on the train right and swiping the card four or five times to get in. >> we all deal with that. >> that's new york, too. >> absolutely. >> i think it shows how the bronx is booming in the city of new york and the new frontier and also a good place to go for votes because of the rules and the primary, maybe if you get like a couple thousand people voting for you, you might win a rich delegate like congressional district that can put you in a good position to win enough delegates to keep going. >> yeah, but the bronx is like a fascinating borough, because even people who live here, grew up in new york, i lived in the bronx, nobody comes up there. you can't get people to visit you if you live in the bronx. it's like a fascinating place and it's very diverse. there's lots of different --

>> we see the bronx on television in a different light, beyond the stereotypes, all stereotypes, the bronx is a wonderful place with very different and very diverse like you said. different communities all over the place. >> absolutely. >> and big old votes, sometimes, too, like everybody else. >> like everybody else. i love the bronx. team bronx. michelle, who won the week. >> i was going to say everybody lost this week although i guess i'll revise that, i agree, the bronx won. it repudiated ted cruz in addition to other things. so ted cruz lost, he tried to come -- why did he think he was going to get a welcome in the bronx? i don't know. donald trump we saw the kind of complete ineptitude of his convention operation, the fact that he's unable to elect -- that he's unable to get delegates that are going to go to the convention and vote for him on the second ballot. hillary clinton i think bill clinton did, it was a small thing but i think it's -- it was damaging, his remarks about 13-year-olds hopped up on crack

and bernie sanders picked an idiotic fight about hillary clinton being qualified to be president. thankfully he's walked it back and hopefully things will be more civil from lehere on out. and john kasich is john kasich. >> but i think he likes the sandwiches in new york. something about the sandwiches. >> it says something about ohio food, trust me. >> this is a question i'll throw to the panel. has the negativity of the democratic race now approached the level of what the republican race has been for quite some time? >> not until somebody starts getting beat up at rallies. until you start making people afraid to go to rallies and there's violence, i don't think the democrats are even close to the negativity we've seen on the republican side. >> and this was played out in 2008, too, and it didn't prove to be the case. but is there a risk that the democratic primary fight becomes so toxic, right, where you've got the supporters of both of these candidates being so vitriolic, even though the candidates are trying to tamp it down that it makes it impossible to unite the party? >> we worried about that in 2008 and it didn't happen.

there was the puma women who weren't going to vote for obama but i think there was like 12 of them. what worries me is that you know one of the things that's more different now is that there actually wasn't that much ideological difference between hillary and obama. there's significantly more ideological difference between bernie and hillary that might make it harder for some of his supporters to come around. because right now they are vitriolic in their opposition to her. they have convinced themselves, i don't know -- i think they've convinced themselves that there's an inch or two of difference between hillary clinton and the republicans and it's going to be if she's the nominee i think it's going to be up to bernie sanders to bring them back on board. >> absolutely. and i wonder if, juan, when it comes to voters of color, it's been a fascinating thing i've noticed. i don't know if you've noticed this. when you talk to younger voters of color, the openness, even to socialism ideas that were off the radar and off the playing field many years ago, but there

is an openness to being independent, to not necessarily being tied to the democratic party. is that a long-term risk in your view to the party that has been the home for voters of color for so long? >> i don't think so. i think it's just the whole country and the younger generation has maybe a more -- they travel more, maybe, and they see how like that word "socialism" or "democratic socialist" is not such a huge bad thing to say in the american political system. so i think they are not afraid to espouse other or different or less conventional political views. on the other hand also i think we see -- no matter how much a bernie sanders supporter can say "i'm not going to vote for hillary" that's not going to happen for the most part. then the democratic party will be unified. but bernie sanders candidacy will push the platform that we see at the convention more to

the left and maybe more to those new voters that can see those ideas in a different light. ideas maybe an older generation was basically seeing socialism and the soviet union. >> and it will be interesting to see if hillary clinton can corral those issues and champion them effectively in the fall. thank you very well juan manuel benitez, michelle goldberg and jason johnson. that's our show today. up next, my colleague alex witt. she talks to tavis smiley about the presidential campaign and you might be surprised to hear what he says about donald trump. stay with msnbc, the place for politics. make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one. ♪ the all-new audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. ♪ rheumatoid arthritis like me,e and you're talking to a rheumatologist about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage.

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