well, we're watching a barn burner of a race in kentucky. it is unbelievable. with more than half of the vote in, the race is too close to call with a difference of just, over, get this. not %, votes, 36 votes separating the two candidates. some votes, a lot of them love to be counted. let's go to steve. >> we've seen the lead change hands four times in the last four minutes. i can tell you what has been driving. maybe five minutes ago. bernie sanders leading by 1,000 votes statewide and a big dump of votes, this is jefferson county, louisville, hillary clinton is leading by a demanding margin here. the 57% in. we got a big dump.

clinton leading by 10,000 votes. if you play this out, if it stays at about this spread for the rest of the vote as it comes in, hillary clinton will probably pick up, will net probably an additional 7,500 votes. if it stays at this current pace at 60% in. think about that. if she were to net an additional 75,700 votes -- 75 votes that would put her into the lead by 7,500. all of these other states coming in statewide. could she withstand bernie sanders? especially the rural areas. they add up where he is doing really well and the other key here, again, make sure i can get in here, i've been talking about this all night. this looms now, potentially we could be staring at this county as the decisive one. this is fayette county. barely any vote in. this is where the university of kentucky is. lexington, again, you think on paper, college town university town, bernie sanders town, the 8% we have right now has hillary

clinton up but that is a big question. if bernie sanders ends up doing well here in fayette county, he could make up a lot of the ground he loses in louisville. if hillary clinton can keep on this pace, then she will be in great shape and again, we said this earlier, keep this in mind when the rural counties come in. look down here in western kentucky, take a look. pick a county where bernie sanders is doing well right now. he is leading here but again, 14%, checking off uncommitted down here, how many of these are conservative trump supporters who are stuck in the democratic primary because they have the registration. how many of them, if they didn't have the uncommitted choice would just be voting against hillary clinton. could be lost votes for bernie sanders but a margin this close could be crucial. >> this is going to be great all night here. let me go to chuck todd, political director for nbc and moderator of meet the press. in terms of the headlines, i keep thinking, here we are in may. it is late in this fight but this is basically, we're not going to have headlines for awhile after tonight.

this is a double header. what will come out tonight is a split decision, hillary wins one perhaps bernie wins the other. we won't have a lot of news now until we get to the biggies in the first week of june. >> well, right. this matters more to sanders than to clinton in many ways. you know, he, look, this is a bad day for bernie sanders because of this nevada debackle and how they debacle and how they managed it. they managed it very poorly. nothing will solve that wound of a bad press management today than a double sweep. you throw that in there and then it sort of adds fuel to their fire to keep fighting and keep going. a split decision is a great night for hillary clinton because then it sort is like nothing to see here, and by the way, speaking of split decision. a little spoiler alert here, we can tell you right now. 27 delegates are going, of the 60 are going to clinton.

27 will go to sanders. and then the remaining six, probably half of the six will go to, half of the six will go to uncommitted and the other three are going to somehow split depending on how this vote ends up. this really is, as far as the delegate count is concerned, totally meaningless tonight. but it is fascinating to see how much effort the clinton campaign put in, essentially, to try to not have a bad pr day. you know, they essentially spent a couple hundred grand to try to see if they could not have a bad tuesday night. >> you know, back eight years ago when the late and revered tim russert made the call about clinton losing to barack obama. it was an objective call. >> we had the numbers. we gave them the numbers. >> tim, here it is. >> when in this cycle do we expect that night of nights when it is clear who won.

>> we had it. it was clear, i could, you could make the case earlier than that but to me, this was over when bernie sanders couldn't beat her in new york. couldn't have, and then the following week, couldn't have the big night he needed. so i think -- >> isn't it new jersey when it really comes down to the final. >> when does she get the magic number. when does she hit 2383 in the estimate including super delegates. at this point it won't be until the final tuesday. excuse me, the final tuesday is d.c. june 14th. until june 7th. that is when she will likely cross the threshold when you factor in super delegates. the sanders campaign doesn't factor in super delegates. >> they're talking about it and fair enough, talking about w winning with pledged delegates. what are the odds. >> they can't. is it possible? there is a possibility they could somehow over take her in

pledged delegates. it is possible but it looks pretty hard in my book without to see that, i think hillary clinton will have more raw vote, more pledged delegates and of course, the super delegates. >> i know, in all fairness. bernie sanders when i've interviewed him, he talked about a political revolution. something brand new. something where all kinds of new voters came into the system and it exploded into some, maybe not revolution, but something really big and new and here we are watching an election in kentucky which is going down to the hundreds of votes. there is no revolution going on right now. >> no, and i'm sorry, the revolution, if this was a revolution, we're talking he would be one big state -- he would be winning big states with big populations. bernie sanders lost his moral grasp of this nomination when he couldn't win the democratic coalition. what is the most important voting groups in the democratic coalition.

shae not winning those voters at all and he never won them in any state. i think he did fairly well with hispanics in nevada if you want to believe thoelz exit polls and -- those exit polls and there are doubts but he hasn't and to me, that is when this became an unreachable goal for him. when he couldn't, he couldn't be competitive enough to win a big diverse state, you know, whether it is new york, whether it is in illinois, in ohio, a big diverse state where he could lay down the marker. >> well said. thanks, chuck so much. joey reed, eugene is back with us. we're joined by hughes hewit. maybe explain why you're so popular and in some demand which you are, so, let me ask you how the crumbling of the wall around jericho is doing right now with donald trump going around with his trump.

it seems like he is making his way through the gate. that he is now going to be the accepted nominee of your party. of the republican party. >> it does seem that way, i was never a trump guy and i'm not on the trump band wagon yet but it does seem after he locked it up in indiana, increased his lead in nebraska it is opposite of hillary clinton who is staggering to philadelphia. remember gabriella anderson who had to crawl across the line? this is hillary clinton and it is not going to be inspiring to democrats. now, trump has real problems including a 28% favorability rating amolatinos according to poll this morning. wow, she is a terrible candidate. >> let's talk about the issues that keep coming up in appe appalachia. it gets over looked. it is a fact. that is where we get the coal. that is where people have

conservative old time religion. they like that term. fundamentalist religion. they value the 2nd amendment rights. it is a no-go zone for democrats. let's talk about that. >> you're exactly right. i was with rob portland, ohio senator on saturday. we were both giving commencement addresses in ohio and i sat down for lunch with him and there are appalachian voters in southern ohio and hillary clinton helps rob port man in southern ohio. they find in donald trump a voice that pays respect to them, pays attention to them, and understands when hillary clinton says she is going to destroy their jobs, she means she is going to destroy their jobs. when hillary clinton declares war on coal, she is serious. that is the front page of the new york times. tom styer dividing the democratic party. you're all union democrats in warren ohio, they don't like this agenda of the green left.

and it is a problem for hillary clinton tonight and it will be in the fall. >> i heard a great statistic in the state of kentucky, the state where most people say when asked what their ethnic background is, their nationality, even the word nationality, most say american. they don't go back to the roots. they just say american and i was thinking how that happened gee graphly. they came to america from europe, you know, hundreds of years ago. they moved to that part of the country and they stayed there. they didn't go through the urban experience, they didn't live in a colorasmopolitan country. >> you know the book where he settled in the piedmont. mitch mcconnell has a new memoir coming out. i have an advanced copy. it is an interesting state. kentucky is one of the most white states in america.

it is also one of the most stable states in terms of generation to generation. you're absolutely right and it is not going to go for hillary in the fall. why she spent money, i thought chuck todd made an interesting point. they're desperate to avoid losing a 21st time to bernie sanders, especially after nevada, that they're hemorrhaging resources there. she will lose california. bernie sanders is strong out there. >> let me ask you about trump. he has a balancing act between now and november. the part of him that appeals to people that find him appealing is this nationalism, the sense of americanism. us against them, a sense of the country we took from the indians. it is not about ideas. nationalism. and he is good especially with working people. then up against that are the constant discussions of his attitudes towards women, his comments, the way he shoots from the hip. he calls elizabeth warren poke ha -- pocahontas.

how does it balance out? does he win with that frontal attack on the failure to protect this country. ethically, economically. he plays that card all of the time. is that a stronger card than all of the other things that mattered in american elections like trying to be politically correct most of the time. >> i think the republicans are in very bad shape and i think donald trump is significantly behind. i believe polls showing a double digit lead for hillary clinton. i don't dismiss the poll showing narrow margin rates is in three key states. the republicans are looking at a 64 scenario unless things change. if it is a national security election. if donald trump can go to the conservatives in his party with a vice presidential selection with mike lee for the supreme court with statements that make them believe and lay down their arms. but i'll tell you, right now, where are the people afraid to

say what they really do believe and they show up on election day surprised. are there more anti-trump republicans than they are anti-clinton democrats. that is the big question. right now i think there are anti-trump republicans. >> i was thinking of the moderate republican women in the suburbs who may have a higher income than most people who think democrat, you might argue but they're saying wait a minute, i've been reading the paper and i don't like this guy's language. >> it was a devastating ads priorities put out. donald trump answered it brilliantly. >> he found the hole in it. >> found the hole in it and i think you'll see a lot of ivanka trump pretty soon. a lot of ivanka trump. she needs to be out there with her father speaking about how he creates opportunities for women because that is a huge gap like the millennial gap. so if -- i'll point one thing out, chris. we don't know what decided the 2008 election until september,

october. we didn't know about 2012 until hurricane sandy. we didn't know until 2008 until bush's dui came. nothing we're talking about tonight will matter in four months but you have to stay close to stay in the race. you have to hang around. >> yeah, and i wonder whether it is going to hurt donald trump emotionally to lose. i'm not so sure. >> he has been failing and failing for a long time. i don't know if he has it programmed that he could lose anything. >> somehow he will come out ahead even if he loses. the whole thing is a phenomenon we haven't seen before. a guy that can run for president, end up like bobby riggs. he is still a name. >> we're back to the 80s. >> by the way, he won all of that stuff back in' 39 and he was the best tennis player around. billie jean king who is fabulous. thank you hugh hewit in big demand. up next, support for hillary clinton is coming up.

2/3 in for kentucky. the race is tight. you're watching msnbc coverage of kentucky and much later, the oregon primary.

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just look at that race in kentucky. too close to call but hillary clinton jumped ahead over bernie sanders. let's get the latest on the race from steve corn yakkkornacki at board. >> this is jefferson county. this is the big part of the country. we have another dump of vote in. close to 80% in. hillary clinton, the margin, that actually grew a little bit here so that is what pushed her into a bigger lead statewide. this is what we've been talking about and i want to show you a

couple of numbers that illustrate how that uncommitted option on the ballot is affecting this race. look at this. this is jefferson county. this is louisville, this is the biggest city in the state, right now this is hillary clinton's best area of the state and check out where uncommitted is. 2% of voters in this very strong hillary clinton county are checking off uncommitted. they're either going to vote for hillary clinton or bernie sanders. look in cincinnati, hillary clinton is doing very well up here, uncommitted. a tiny, tiny share of the vote. only 3%. now let's go to sanders country. let's see what uncommitted looks like in coal country, pike county, sanders got a big win here tonight but look at this. the uncommitted vote leaps to 15%. that is five times what we just saw in the hillary clinton counties. so what is going on here? this really looks like strong evidence that you have conservative democrats, ancestral conservative droe dem

they were born democrats. they're for donald trump this fall for various reasons they're in this democratic party. a primary today. probably for local races and other races on the ballot. instead of voting for bernie sanders and hillary clinton, they don't have to make that choice. they vote uncommitted. how many of these voters, if they had to choose between sanders and clinton would just check off sanders name because it would give them a chance to vote against hillary clinton? we're only seeing the big numbers in the sanders counties tonight and when you're seeing a race this close, you have to ask yourself, how many votes has bernie sanders lost tonight because of uncommitted? >> steve kornacki that is great. joining us, anderson lundermangrimes. she ran for the state two years ago against mitch mcconnell. she is supporting hillary for president. i will not ask you who you voted for. i know you voted for hillary clinton. tell us about what steve is talking about. steve kornacki they say they're

democrats but will vote for trump this fall. >> is it great to join you this evening and steve's analysis is accurate. it is correct. you only have to look back to the 2012 presidential election to see the share of uncommitted vote that was cast against president obama. kentucky is a state where we take things down to the wire not just for horse races but for the presidential elections. senator sanders needed a big win in the commonwealth and that hasn't happened. we're seeing significant movement, especially for folks who watched the contest last week in west virginia. we're seeing secretary clinton make great strides especially in coal country, across the common wealth and importantly, make an impact across the state of kentucky. >> looking towards the general election, i do believe, you know that hillary clinton will be the nominee based upon the assessments. if she is the nominee and has to run in that part of the country

to win a couple of states in that region of the country, how does she deal with the coal issue. how does she deal with the fact that very is an environmentalist and believes in climate change and has to respect every citizen. >> i think when she came to the commonwealth of kentucky, her message resonated with voters from east to west. we're waiting for the vote from west kentucky which likewise is a significant part of coal country here in the commonwealth. her message is one of making sure that all americans have a road to prosperity. she is the only candidate in this race that has a $30 billion coal country revitalization plan. it is based on investment and research and infrastructure and as those across the commonwealth learned about her plan, it resonated, importantly, i think the trust factor was huge here in the commonwealth, people realized her experience, her leadership, her ability to make

sure that we can grow the economy of the commonwealth while making sure globally we're given the room we need to keep things stable and breathe. >> this is a tricky business in partisan politics. a relatively tough stand on gun safety. will that hurt her there? >> well, kentucky is a state that especially appreciates the second amendment but i think most kentuckyians agree that we need to close the gun show loophole. they're about making sure that we are enforcing the laws that are on the books and that is what secretary clinton put forth. i think what we're seeing tonight is that those in kentucky, there is no revolution occurring for senator sanders here. he didn't get the big night he needed and importantly, secretary clinton came here to the commonwealth to continue to talk about her plan and importantly, making sure that she sets forth a brighter future for all all americans. her focus was on the general

election. they're in the contest in california and new jersey, coming up in june, and that is where the nomination will be had but i do feel confident that secretary hillary clinton will be the first female to win the major nomination of a democratic party and importantly, i hope that she goes on to become the president of the united states. >> let's talk about you for a second, your future, you ran a better race, better numbers than barack obama. you ran against a tough, tough customer mitch mcconnell, who is an old pro. do you see yourself going up and take another wack at it statewide? >> well, i'll tell you, i'm really proud to have gotten the opportunity to be with secretary clinton as we traveled across the commonwealth over the past several weeks. the entire clinton family being here in the commonwealth, they've seen me grow over the past, over two decades and importantly, something that i learned from them, don't ever

give up. right now, my focus is making sure that we finally crack that glass ceiling and we elect hillary rodham clinton. >> thank you very much. allison lundergan grimes. as kentucky goes down to the wire, who knows who will win tonight. 80% of the votes. hillary clinton has the lead. it turned the corner awhile ago. a lead of 4,000 votes. that is significant. msnbc's live coverage of the kentucky primaries continues after this.

it is an exciting race in kentucky. still too close to call for us between clinton and sanders. let's bring in claire mccastin. this is like an away game for the democrats. kentucky is tough. you have the coal issue, the gun issue, the cultural conservative of the state. something like missouri, something like missouri. >> i think that is right, chris, but i think the interesting story tonight that no one has talked about is what happened on the republican side in kentucky today. donald trump couldn't break 40% in that primary today. i mean, he is sitting at 36% of the vote. he is only going to get two more delegates than ted cruz, so how can you have a presumptive

nominee where everyone has dropped out in a bright red state that can't break 40? i think that really speaks volumes about what kind of trouble he is in in terms of uniting the republican party because of his inappropriate language and reckless and risky comments. he insulted great britain and he is hugging up on putin. i think there is so much in that story that no one has really talked about yet, besides, i think it is going to end up being a good night for hillary clinton in kentucky. i think she is going to win kentucky, barely, but i think she is going to win it. and i think that just puts another explanation point on the strength of her victories on the country. in all kinds of states. >> be careful of the exclaimation point. jeb tried that. >> i'll take that down. >> let me ask you about trump. i agree with everything you say. i read the papers.

i can see the controversy and everything he says and i look at the latest polling and it shows him getting closer to hillary clinton. he is within a few votes. how do we explain it in a country with 30% of the country is minority, most of the country is female, is women voters, 13% are voting latino people, americans. 13% are african-americans. asian americans, it adds up to 30%. how can he be winning in the entire population when he starts with 30%, he is not getting anywhere near, which means he has to get incredible percentage of the 70, yet when you're looking at it, he is running close, if not even with hillary clinton at this point. how do we explain that? >> i think first of all, polls have been all over the place for the last several years. a lot of increate polls out there. a lot of people who made predictions on races that were flat wrong in polling. the other thing is, it is very early. i don't think this race has gelled yet. i don't think the clear contrast has been made between hillary

clinton and donald trump. but there is trouble in paradise when donald trump can't get 40% of the vote in kentucky today. that is trouble. >> let me ask you about trouble with nevada this weekend. this story has taken awhile to burst up on us, the pictures aren't terrible. rowdy crowd and animated and bad language, beyond believe against barbara boxer speaking for hillary clinton and chairs being thrown and i'll tell you, i got first hand experience, witness from people who say that these people that were so passionate against the democratic party that they followed the party chair to the workplace, calling and harassing all day. threatening the people, telling customers not to go there, the restaurant was closed, giving it a low rating. what it was harassment. serious bad news. what do you say about that. >> it is unfortunate. and i think it is really

important. i respect the passion of the bernie supporters and respect what bernie has done in this campaign. they have to remember how much we agree on. they have to remember that it is the supreme court. it is women's reproductive rights. it is whether or not we're going to be able to raise the minimum wage in this country. it is really important stuff that we agree on and so i just hope that as time goes on, and i believe this, i think bernie will do the right thing eventually. i believe he will coalesce with the rest of the democratic party and urge his supporters to do the same. i remember when hillary clinton won 7 of the last 10 primaries in 2008 and how hard that was for someone who supported barack obama at the time and this is not been as smooth end of the primary season, but it all came together in 2008 and i think it will this year. >> there are two advantages that we had in hoping for that kind of unity in the country was that hillary clinton was a democrat

and hillary clinton had a future in the party. bernie sanders is still very much an independent and this is his last shot so i think there are differences but thank you, senator claire mccaskill. we have an update. let's check back with steve kornacki on the big board. >> we want to clarify something she said there. she was talking about donald trump getting 40% saying that doesn't look good for someone who won the nomination. there is no republican primary in kentucky today. this was cancelled out of difference to rand paul. if you're seeing results for the republican contest. it is from back in march when trump was in a close race in the state with ted cruz who was an active state. no republican primary in kentucky. on the democratic side, hillary clinton moved ahead, two very important things. she is hovering over 3,000 votes. two important places to look. we've been talking about it all night. fayette county, university of kentucky, is all new. a college county, a place where

you look and say this should be bernie sanders. hillary clinton has won, fayette county where the university of kentucky is. that is what pushed her into the lead. you see right now, the other thing is, we've been watching it all night. louisville it is not all in. there is one more dump of votes at least left here so you can imagine hillary clinton with this margin, probably going to pick up a few thousand more votes in terms of her out of jefferson county. you factor that in. bernie sanders basically, get out of louisville, is probably going to have to make up five or six thousand votes, getting awfully tough to see. >> steve, you're amazing. steve kornacki. joan walsh and joey reed and a man who spent a lot of time in louisville. if hillary clinton wins tonight. it is a morale boost. >> i think it is a big win. this is not clinton country. this profile of the state is more of a sanders state. 8% african-american. not the kind of place she wins. so she clearly put resources into it. she clearly cared. also, this uncommitted number is so fascinating and it reminds me

of the voters, the sanders voters in west virginia last week who said they would vote for trump in the general election. there is this disaffected republican group but you gave them an actual option that was nonsanders and they went for that option. so that is -- >> it is a leading indicator as you say. howard, you know this place pretty well working for the louisville journal. how about it? >> hillary needed this win to change the sense inside of the party that she was somehow a stagnant candidate. she put a ton of effort into this. she made 15, 20 appearances in kentucky over the last few weeks. they wanted to win to break the chain, also to be the coal state that went for hillary unlike west virginia. she relied on louisville and what she relied was the african-american community. john yarmouth is a democratic congressman from there, he took her to black churches everywhere in louisville. number one. number two, louisville, unlike the rest of the south is a union

city. big factories there, general electric, ford, and ups which now has the global package handling business in louisville at the airport. that is teamsters so all of the union people came out. steve was talking about lexingt lexington. yes it is a university town, but it is right next door to the state capitol town of frankfurt. a lot of state employees, traditional democrats. we have eastern kentucky which is ancestrally democrats. habits don't change. this was a closed primary, don't forget. this was not totally bernie territory. it was a closed primary. only democrats could vote. they voted for her in the primary. as for the general election, that you make a really great point there. i think a lot of these union guys, they're mostly guys, who voted for hillary because their leaders told them to vote for hillary, not bernie, even though

they probably agreed with bernie on trade. consu culturely, they may be wearing the label of the auto workers, donald trump is going to be awfully attractive to him. he will win kentucky by 12-15 points. >> you heard it here. >> the last democrat to win kentucky was bill clinton because he was from arkansas. he spoke their language. hillary doesn't. >> southern democrats, jimmy carter won there, too, i believe. >> he did. >> southern democrats did well in kentucky. >> let's give hillary credit here. she put the effort in. she had to win this. if she lost it would have added to the narrative of she is stagnant, boring, she can't do this. it will be tough as it is but for her to tough this out -- >> we don't know who will win. it looks like hillary is ahead right now by some measure of four or five thousand. nevada, this shows the passion levels, the tactics used, rough house tactics.

you can argue it wasn't the party leadership. when we heard from the party chair out there, roberta langualange, she said the bernie leadership was part of the tactic. >> they're part of the same stories it shows the power of organization. the democratic party is still a party and hillary clinton is still -- >> is a democrat. >> is still a democrat and knows how to run that apparatus. when he is talking about getting the union apparatus and getting the black churches involved. this is what democrats do and how they win. it is how they win in places like florida that has the northern half of the state that is like kentucky. it is culturely democratic b. rounding out the full roster where as the sanders regulars don't play by the rules and throw chairs -- >> i'm not sure they're aware how it works. >> they got beat. they organized at the county convention level and they beat her. they sent a crew of new organizers in to round up the

delegates and got the delegates. they had fewer from the county conventions. they got them all there. >> what about the fairness argument. who is right, who is wrong here? >> i think hillary is right. i do wish roberta lange would have called the card vote, individual vote. they could have done a roll call. >> hillary would have won anyway. >> she would have won but it would have clarified. >> why the clinton, i wasn't there so i don't know the granular details. why they didn't do a tactical retreat and allow bernie have a say to prevent this -- maybe i'm being naive. >> this was a call -- >> it was a voice flow and the same thing that happened to the republican national convention when they called for a voice vote. >> sometimes people think if you yell louder you have a voice vote. but the purpose of the chair is to figure out how many voices were heard. you're looking at me -- >> i'm thinking back to

kentucky. yes, i said hillary would pull it out and she deserves credit if she does it. the fact that bernie did as well as he did in that state is amazing. >> i'll give you an annecdote. they're great-grandfather was happy chandler, baseball dismisser and governor of connecticut, i met them at the der derby. four generations, all of the kids, all of the kids of this traditional democratic family are wearing feel the bern t-shirts and to me, the fact that the young people are out there wearing the feel the bern t-shirts even in kentucky in a democratic family like that, amazing. >> funny how history repeats them self. he was running for reelection. he said how come you're not going to vote for me. i did all of the things through the years the voters said what did you do for me lately? >> that is the first time we had a happy chandler anecdote on

msnbc. >> thank you, joy, thank you, howard, thank you joan walsh. here is a live picture of the bernie sanders rally in carson, california. sanders will speak there later tonight. there is a time difference of three hours. it is early there. it is only 5 something in the afternoon. the race in kentucky close to call. we'll continue to watch the returns coming in here on msnbc. you're watching it and our coverage of kentucky and later tonight, the oregon primary. when it comes to medicare,

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the reporter for the washington post and msnbc contributor as well. gabe, you start with the headline tonight. if hillary clinton wins this thing, i guess we're looking at the possibility of a split decision if she loses oregon but we don't know about oregon. there is no pulling out there. how important is it if she wins in kentucky. >> clearly, donald trump is out there making the argument you saw the tweets tonight that she can't close this deal. so she needs to say, look, i got the win, i have the right to be the presumptive nominee of this party. >> robert? sounds right. >> what we're seeing from secretary clinton is an attempt to turn to the general election. trump is starting to run his general election campaign. sat down with trump yesterday at trump tower and he is watching agreefully as the democrats -- glee fully as they continue the primary battle. in the 60 to 90 days before the convention, he will try to change his image of himself. >> how does he change? the other day, there was an

element of merth when he called senator warren pocahantas. he is not changing. >> he is not changing. he is facing his democratic advertising assault. it is starting from the democratic -- >> why do you say he is change sna ing? >> he wants to get out there on the stage and explain himself. he thinks the force of his personality can change the narrative of this campaign. >> as i reported the other day, the other thing he will hit her on is the corruption issue and the character issue and those two things are things that bernie sanders supporters have tapped into and i think there is a lot of momentum if he can make the anti-wall street argument it will get traction with his voters. >> what kind of debate will it be? i think hillary will agree to the debate. say they have three debates. >> by all accounts it will be ugly. >> how do you say hi and nice to meet you, crooked hillary? this already starts with that

being the names that he is using against her. he is saying she is crooked. the moderator of the debate will obviously ask is this person across from you crooked? you can't avoid it, can you? gabe? >> he framed it and did an effective job. you saw what he did to the other republican candidates. he is a master about framing the debates on favorable terms to him. >> if hillary takes a shot with his bad language against women they're putting in the ads. all over the place reminding things the awful things he said about women's looks and the negatives and they throw in, and then he will throw back bill. we can almost script this thing. he will throw bill in her face. >> look for trump to revive all of the issues that surrounded the clinton family in the 1990s. things that haven't been revived in the national conversation for over a decade. trump is looking through the files. he has a stack of papers on his

desk. he thinks the 90s is fair game and he used to be friends with bill clinton but now with the former president, he is going right at him. >> bill and hillary went to the wedding. they did. they golfed together. they're pretty friendly. >> this is going to be some what of a different kind of race. i don't know if it will be a good one. but it will be different. robert costa and gabe sherman. 92% in kentucky. a lead of 1,000 votes. it is not a lot but it is different than what it looked an hour or so ago. later on tonight, the oregon primary continues after this. man 1: you're new.

man 2: i am. woman: ex-military? man 2: four tours. woman: you worked with computers? man 2: that's classified, ma'am. man 1: but you're job was network security? man 2: that's classified, sir. woman: let's cut to the chase, here... man 1: what's you're assessment of our security? man 2: [ gasps ] porous. woman: porous? man 2: the old solutions aren't working. man 2: the world has changed. man 1: meaning? man 2: it's not just security. it's defense. it's not just security. it's defense. bae systems.

well, we're watching this very tight race in kentucky. bernie sanders now back in the lead. by the thinnest of margins. 126 actual votes ahead of hillary clinton. let's bring in our washington red table. david corn, and democr. you have no idea who will win in kentucky. maria, you first, people keep telling me tonight. sometimes i'm slower than others around here. they say it is more important to bernie than hillary to get through the night, a loss, a tight loss but it is a bigger loss for him because whatever, explain. >> well, because all of a sudden, it gives him a flat tire

in the middle of momentum. being able to demonstrate that he can continue his momentum of continuing this winning streak he has and building up for the prize which is california and i think when you start looking at a lot of the polling in california, he is closing in on hillary, i mean, you just, you saw what was happening in northern california where he is filling up community colleges which are huge bases for a lot of minority voters and for a lot of young voters. >> and a big crowd out there tonight for him. let me go to cornell. you want to end with a bang even if you're losing, if he can win california, he marchs into philly. >> if he wins california, it is a real problem for the clinton folks but i think it is going to be tough for him to win california. i mean, she does have a network there. she does have organization there and, look, this is problematic in a couple ways because if you look back at 08, she won the last couple of states as well going into, when obama won it

but the problem is, she didn't put her arms around obama. there is no sign right now that bernie sanders and his campaign will do what good democrats need to do and embrace the person that will be the nominee. >> let me go to david, too. will we end this well for the party? you know, i do think in the last couple of weeks, you have seen at least at the high end of the bernie campaign, himself and his aides trying to ratchet down on the rhetoric and looking for a soft landing, so to speak. now, you saw in nevada a lot of the people, at least, i don't say a lot. some of the people don't buy that strategy. so i think in the end, bernie will do what the democrat party likes. he will be making demands, making demands at the convention on platform issues, maybe speaking issues. but he doesn't want a cabinet position. >> i agree with that. he will stay on his own up there in vermont. thank you so much. david corn.

cornell beher. rachel maddow will pick up our coverage. stick with us.

this is very exciting. happy tuesday! thanks for being with us tonight. who knew the presidential race would still be on as late as the kentucky and oregon primaries? the beginning of the year, i didn't even write these ones in the calendar. i figured they would be done by now. chris matthews, chuck todd, joy reed, the great steve kornacki and his big board. jean robinson, nicole wallace. all of the campaign reporters. the gang is all here. it will be a big, by