tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC June 5, 2016 12:00pm-3:01pm PDT
>> we're all citens. with that, that's all we have for today. we're back next day. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." hello, everyone. polls have just close in the puerto rico democratic primary. 60 pledged democrats and seven super delegates are on the line w a win last flight in the virgin islands caucuses, clinton is less than 60 delegates short of the 2,382 needed to security nomination. bernie sanders is making it clear this race is not over and that clinton's camp shouldn't be even thinking about declaring victory before the convention.
>> there are 931 pledged delegates at stake in contests between today and june 14th. for secretary clinton to get to the magic number of 2,383, she would have to win two-thirds of the those pledged delegates. frankly, unless i am very, very mistaken, that is absolutely not going to happen. >> msnbc national reporter joins us now from san juan, puerto rico. what are the issues driving voters at the polls in puerto rico? >> well, before i set the stage in terms of the issues, i have to set the stage in terms of the vote itself. they just closed the gate. the polls are officially closed as of 3:00 p.m. if you take a look behind me, the line is extraordinarily long. they are going to be casting ballots for at least another hour here. it stretches around the tables, upstairs, and in an unseen line.
there are two reasons for. this one is interest in the presidential election. when it was clinton versus obama, there were more than 2,000 polling locations last month. people are waiting for a long, long time. we have two hillary clinton voters. >> it was interesting. i actually thought it was going to be very short. i was impressed when i saw it. i think it's exciting. i mean, people are coming out to voechlt we really -- how long did it take you? >> 2 1/2, almost 3 hours. >> easily. actually, we made a friendship in the line. we were standing next to each other. >> and you met bernie sanders supporters? >> yes. and we were having a very animated conversation. >> why do you think that hillary
clinton is better for port roue ri rico? >> i heard her speak and i believe in her pro-choice platform and her ideas glchlt 2 1/2 hours for your hillary clinton vote, was it worth it? >> yes. i'm very excited. i wish i could vote in the general election. so that's very frustrating for us. i think she sbest clois to go head-to-head about trump. >> thank you very much. the lines are a big deal. when hillary clinton to reach the magic number of delegates, she's going to need to unite the party. part of doing that is convincing bernie sanders supporters this is a fair election. there are enough polling stations in every state for everyone that wants to get to vote get there. and we saw someone in arizona and new york, there were irregularities. that result is going to be that much more difficult for hillary to bring this party together and get stronger for july and into the fall. back to you.
>> all right. tony, talk very much. appreciate it. clinton-sanders supporters are stumping in california. polls predict a tight race on tuesday. sanders will hold a rally tonight in san diego. hillary clin will meet with community leaders before hosting her own rally in sacramento. kelly o'donnell joins me now from san diego with the latest on bernie sanders campaign. what are they up to today, kelly? >> well, bernie sanders is in sort of the final round of the big rallies that he is staging with celebrities and musical groups and trying to generate some of the energy that has defind a lot of his campaign. now at the top of the program you played a clip where bernie sanders outlined some of his concerns and the math as he sees it. one of the things that sanders is saying is that manufactuy of super delegates if aren't country put their support behind hillary clinton long before the voting actually began. so the argument he is making is that on the pledge delegates,
those delegates derived directly from the votes while he is still behind, he believes he's got some momentum going. and he says that those super delegates, their role really begins at the convention itself. now he's laying the groundwork, joy, for staying in the race beyond california. so if he wins in california, that according to sanders and his top officials would be a strong argument to say that in terms of bringing in new voters and momentum and energy, he has a case to make to some of those super delegates to try to swing his way. the smaj not in sanders' favor. he is urging people to not think the race is being over if they're including those super delegates who as i mention often pledge their support long before the campaign season had begun. so sanders is trying to make that case that if voter turnout is high in california, he will do well. he is concerned that when the polls close in new jersey on tuesday if, the race is sort of called with clinton being the presumptive nominee, it may
dampen the turnout in california, obviously, three hours behind. so this is a final big push for bernie sanders in a state where he is competitive and hopes that he might be able to pull out a win and upset in california if that were to happen with bernie sanders coming in on top. joy? >> all right. thank you very much. kelly o'donnell. appreciate it. >> casey hunt has the latest now on hillary clinton's campaign. all right, casey, number one today and number two, is the clinton campaign at all concerned that a call for her would actually just unite bernie sanders voters? >> hi, joy. hillary clinton keeping up a very intense campaign schedule even today, sunday. of course, we hadn't expected her to spend these final five days in california. she wasn't supposed to come back basically until today. instead, she's been here all over the state, quite frankly, in the l.a. area. she's obviously in northern california.
today she went to church in oakland and off the record stopped, she's got a rally in sacramento. another event also as well today. so they are trying to leave nothing on the field here in california. the fear, of course, being that bernie sanders wasn't in a position to potentially pull out a win here and still could be. all the polls closed, of course, are showing this to be a very close race. and in many ways, you know, the culture of the this state fits bernie sanders better than any other place with the possible exception of brooklyn in new york. this is definitely a place that very much responded to him. but the clinton campaign in the last couple of days has essentially worked to pivot to the general election. you saw that with her speech focusing on donald trump. they billed it as this foreign poll say dress. i walked in there and it's all these fancy chairs. the very formal setting, flags on the stage. and what we got was fuactually
pretty bite on the election. one that gave democrats heart that she's going to be able to take on donald trump. that is going to put pressure on bernie sanders. even if he does pull out a win here in california. she did a good job over the last 48, 72 hours of calming down whatever angst there might be. i think of getting democrats to feel as though it's time for bernie sanders to start to bow h out of this race if she's ready to become the presumptive nominee on tuesday. >> all right. casey hunt, thank you very much. all right, now want to bring in my all star panelists. michael steel, jonathan capart and joan walsh. we heard that download from all of our correspondents if puerto rico all the way to california. each of you, i'm going to let you go through and set the stage. i'm going to start with you, joan. you have hillary clinton potentially clinching the
nomination before california polls close. is that good for her or does it leave enough doubt in sanders' supporters minds that it actually would be a net negative? >> i think it is what it s i don't think it's good or bad, joy. as a former californian, my heart says let's not call it before it's over. that is ridiculous. anyone can do the math and we know what is going to happen in new jersey. it looks like she's going to win. there she will be the nominee counting the super delegates. so it's not like we're doing something dastardly if we call it on the basis of new jersey. our viewers care in one way or the other can do that math. i think, you know, i think she's going to pull it out. she needed to show up and
galvanize her people. she has had the experience. it worked. it's a dense state. there are places where if you pay attention and you pull voters out, you're going to win. >> even before we get there, puerto rico is important. >> no state other than california and new jersey has more delegates on offer than puerto rico. >> they vote in force. folks on the island, it 180% of the population that goes and votes. it's ridiculous they close the polling places knowing there was going to be a vote. and they've been cultivating puerto rico for a very long time. they have a strong kinship even within the infrastructure of the political establishment is ch is very difficult for bernie to n penetrate. >> this is it. i think what you're going see is you're going to see an interesting campaign from the island trying to get people to do calls in orlando. you know, if you start actually looking at where bernie sand serz looking at california, you realize he is going deep into
pockets of people who don't pay attention to. cloverdale and reading, those are areas that inpresent. vallejo is a very large asian community. and, yes, he's done -- he's gone into the latino community and going deeper as you were pointing out into pockets that most presidential candidates never pay attention. to. >> yeah. >> when you say deeper, bernie sanders, it makes me think of ground game. you've been talking about something that hasn't gotten enough attention. and that is this idea that bernie sanders supporters being independents who in california and the way they rule, bernie sanders and his campaign hasn't done the work of educating his supporters about how they need to vote on tuesday. he's going to be in big trouble. and sort of the same way that happened in new york where it clear lit bernie sanders campaign did not tell any of the
supporters that in new york state, you have to be a registered democrat in order to vote. >> so in order to get a ballot with his name on it, you have to ask for a no party preference ballot and also ask for democratic ballot. >> sure. >> i think that is a nuance. it's important. it's not established about it political parties. the narrative is they're playing about it rules. >> there are a couple of things. one, i think, the california-new jersey is important. it's important not just from the standpoint of what it means for bernie, but i think -- i know a lot of california voters, their great frustration is they always feel -- first, they thought this would be a bigger primary for them. certainly republican and
democrat. the race was supposed to -- >> california matters. so here we go again. the polls close at 8:00 on the east coast for new jersey. hillary is a nominee. you stay home in california. you don't need to participate. en that is such a frustratingly angering thing to say and to believe in this country that folks in the west coast that somehow the vote needs to shut down because it's done at 8:00. so for the bernie sanders supporters out there, i know that will be very angry and frustrating. i think the hillary people people have to walk that very carefully. and they cannot be seen celebrating prematurly at 5:00 p.m. west coast time. even if she has a nomination in hand. the second thing is, to all the states, i just want to put this on the record officially right now. to every state and territory in the union, get your act together for november. >> open up polling place as cross your states and territories to allow every citizen the time to vote.
you should not have to take 2 1/2, 3 hours to cast a vote. more polling places, not fewer. >> obviously, puerto rico has huge budget challenge that's are sure not to make that easy. my guests will be later next on the hour. why bernie sanders may not be able to concede even if he does lose in california and new jersey on tuesday. my name is fred and i carve heads out of cheese.
i haven't worked in swiss since. everyone called me crazy. things really took off when i got my domain name headsofcheese.com from godaddy and now they're selling like hot cakes...made of cheese. got a crazy idea you think you can turn into a success? we know you can and we've got a domain for you. go you. godaddy. at the end of the nominate prague s ing process, no candidate will have enough pledged delegates to call the campaign a victory. they will be dependent upon super delegates. in other words, the democratic national convention will be a
contested convention. >> wow. bernie sanders does not sound like a candidate ready to step out of the race if he loses tuesday's contest. california is the biggest prize that night where sand serz down two points to hillary clinton in the latest polls but within the margin of error. for more on this race in california, let's bring back jonathan and my guests. what about the question of a contested convention. don't super delegates always put it over the top? it's not as fit would be new if it was the super delegates that put this over? >> no. it would not. this idea that initial lit sanders campaign, bernie sanders saying it was the rigged system. now it's the super delegates are going to turn around and support him. i want to point out one thing, super delegates, by and large, are elected officials. these are democrats of the democratic party. and one of the things that these
elected officials have to do, they have to run for re-election. how do they run for re-election? raise money. they need money and infrastructure, sometimes from the national -- usually, from the national party that helped them get elected. bernie sanders has not raised any money for the democratic national committee. so what makes him think that these super delegates are going to switch to support him and he's done nothing to support them? >> so that is bernie's key argument. they're bought and fade for. they have paid their dues for this process. they're not rank and fril democrats. they're part of the intelligent -- again, why his arguement resonates with the supporters and voters? whether bernie sanders stands on that stage and says this will be a contested convention, that's what he's talking about. he'll contest over the process that gave hillary -- >> no.
>> that gave hillary 462 delegates before she even started running if that's his argument. >> one, it is very difficult for a lot of folks watching this to see bernie sanders first attack the super delegates and say now i have a shot with them. you can't really have it both ways. you can't actually expect it. >> before we go to that, we're going to get to numbers. the reality is for sand rz supporters, if they were to all be beamed up and gone tomorrow, hillary clinton would still be ahead. >> well, yeah. you go into the convention and overturn -- you go in and overturn the results as they stand if the super delegates were to vote for the person who had less pledged delegates. let's go through polling. the "l.a. times" poll, we polled as well. the "l.a. times" poll has 23% of sanders supporters say they will not vote for hillary clinton in november. and among sanders supporters in november write, vote for hillary clinton, they say don't vote at
all. what do you think about that? >> great. democrats and republicans, there is a state that has not gone republican for a very, very long time, right? it is a democratic program. it is a state where sanders can show something new? he can show that he actually has rez nens among voters of color substantially? >> he is showing that he has residence among folks of color, especially whether you start looking across generational lines. >> yep. >> you look at young african-americans, they are -- he is speaking their language. they actually feel they're living a political system that is rigged against them. they cannot actually achieve and 5:00 sthes american dream. he is speaking to that. so i think that while he may have a tough time now because of the way the party rules are set up, i think there is a movement in california that you'll see future populous do quite well. >> and to that point, when you
look into the internals in that poll number, bernie sanders with latino voertz under age 50, he's beating hillary clinton 50-31. latino voters over 50, she's beating him 69% to 16%. and the other issue, jonathan, you now have california is one of the majority nonwhite states, 39% of the electorate is latino. there are 11% asian-american and 6% african-american. what does that mean for hillary clinton, the small african-american piece of that mix? >> well, i mean, it's tig because we have seen hillary clinton drive to huge majorities in southern states primarily because african-americans came out in huge numbers to vote for her. if she cannot talk to and appeal to and get the votes of latino voters, in addition to
african-american voters, she's in big trouble. but she's getting a huge assist. >> voters under 45 are going tore bernie sanders, 66-30. voters over 45 going for hillary clinton by about the same margin. it's basically flipped when you look at that demographic in terms of age. we don't have time to even talk about. that our guests are going to stick around. we'll take a break and pay for this here tv show. next, a look at the remaining contest for the democrats before next month's dnc convention.
the bugle saying he still can win this race. probably not going to be happy with the results tonight. hillary clinton trying to win the majority of the 67 delegates at stake. she's only 57 delegates away from the grand total needed to secure the nomination, he'll get 40 or more of these coming out. then we look at the six states that are remaining to vote on seven of this month, on june seventh. you'll have most of the states voting. everything with the exception of d.c. which votes on june 14th. these are expected to be bernie sanders states. you have california which could split right down the middle. it doesn't help either candidate that much. it could advance hillary clinton over the top. but what we're expecting is that new jersey will be the one. 142 delegates at stake. hillary clinton only needing 57. and that's before whatever she takes out of the virgin islands
when there were 12 at stage and before she gets whatever she's going to get tonight in puerto rico. hillary clinton could clinch the nomination here on the east coast with 142 delegates at stake, even before california votes. new jersey, 142 delegates at stake. polls are showing hillary clinton with a significant lead. she up is with 64% to bernie sanders' 30% in the polls. looking very good for hillary clinton to clinch the nomination. we do to california, hillary clinton holding a lead of about plus two. look at how many delegates are at stake. 548 delegates at stake. 475 of those are pledged. hillary clinton could have a nat so good night here in california but still take away enough delegates to make her lead over bernie sanders insurmountable. let's hear hillary clinton herself talking about how things are going to go on tuesday. >> this is race against bernie sanders over whether or not you
win california on tuesday? >> i think if you look at the popular vote, if you look at the majority of pledged delegates, i should have captured those by tuesday. i'm going to keep fighting hard in california and the other states voting on tuesday. >> back with me is the panel. joe and jonathan and the notorious michael steel. hillary clinton has got to keep talking about wanting to win california. it's very important to her. interestingly enough, her big events will be in new jersey. she expecting that new jersey is going to be the place that it gets called. >> yeah. i mean, i think it's pretty clear. but, you know, california is important and also another thing i thought michael was going to say, before the thunder, the donors in california are really sad whether they don't get enough attention. so it will be interesting to see where she is on tuesday night. i don't know if they've announced that. >> i think she's going to be in new jersey. right now she's looking at the official call happening there. does it make a difference? >> she wants to be in new jersey
if that's where she claims the title. she can own that news cycle, right? at that point, you ka k. scan s doesn't matter. >> what would it do psychologically to the clinton campaign to lose california? let's say she wins in new jersey, has this great night. declared the presumptive nominee by all of us and then california turns out to be a bernie sanders state. >> it gives bernie another week. actually, i think another five weeks leading up to the convention to say what he said as you opened the show this evening. this will be a contested convention. we're taking this all the way to philadelphia. this fight isn't over. >> i think bernie needs to -- has to have a bit of a moment, too. what he doesn't want to do is end up being a democratic spoiler. he doesn't want to divide the party so much that come -- when it comes to the mainstream general election, she loses and everybody ends up pointing at him. >> inventivizing him to do that. >> i can parse the word -- the term contested convention a little bit though? because he says that. but that could also mean that
platform is going to be contested. it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to take it right -- that he's going to take -- >> i have to tell you, you have to -- they're expecting him to -- they're expecting froests. >> right. what a contested convention means is that bernie sanders would have been nominated from floor of the convention, it's been done. jerry brown did it to bill clinton. kennedy did it to carter. >> you saw what republicans did in 2012 with ron paul. they blocked his nomination from the floor. that's why we are where we are today because those voices were never heard in the context of that convention. if the bernie sanders supporters are not heard, if bernie's voice is not heard, remember, ron paul was not allowed to give a speech at the 2012 convention. >> bernie sanders will be able to give that speech. he'll be able to assuage his supporters and move them like hillary did in 2008 towards
barack obama. he can move -- >> except, michael steel. you have feelings about this. except that when our colleague chris matthews interviewed bernie sanders campaign manager and asked him if there's a possibility that he could give his speech on tuesday and still have himself nominated from the floor on wednesday and literally contest the convention, weaver said, yes, that could actually happen. >> all right. >> i mean, i -- the scenario blows my mind. i still go back to 2008 when the delegate math was even narrower, when the contest between barack obama and hillary clinton was a real contest. when super delegates really absolutely mattered. a few shift here and. there the nomination could have gone one way or the other. and then when it did not go her way, hillary clinton stood there and she said, i am out of the race. and barack obama is my candidate. i'm going to do everything in my power to make sure he is
president of the united states. >> yep. >> and -- force. >> but the delegates are not there for bernie sanders in that way. and also -- and also, he is still talking in a way that he's not going to -- >> we are now starting to hear rumbling that's democrats on capitol hill, you know, respected senior level democrats are starting to warm to the yfd an elizabeth warren on the ticket in order to assuage the supporters z that help bring bernie around and help him bring the plane in for a landsing? >> i don't think it will help. i'm not behind. that i think it would be too alienate, two white men who are already terrified. i think she is more valuable in the senate. i think shez going to be a power house in the senate. that is not my ticket. >> i would agree with her. i would repeat what i said earlier the day. in a clinton-warren white house would be washington's version of empire. >> who is cooking in this scenario? >> i have no idea zbhchlt we'll have you come back later. you need to think about that and do some casting. up next, we'll talk with donald
i was a member of a club, a society, very strongly pro mexican. which is all fine. but i say he's got nuts, want to build a wall. this judge treated me very unfairly. he's treated me in a hostile manner. and there something going on. >> if he were a muslim judge, you would feel they wouldn't be able to treat you fairly because of that policy of yours? >> possibly, yes. yeah. it would be possible, absolutely. >> so it isn't just mexican judges but now muslim judges who could be biassed against trump. trump's remarks come amid growing frustration from republican leaders over his race based attacks on judge gonzalo.
a federal judge in california who is overseeing a lawsuit against the now defunct trump university. still with me is michael steel and msnbc host of "the last word," lawrence o'donnell himself. thank you for being here. and also joining from dallas is katrina pierson for the trump campaign. i want sto start by asking if you believe it's wise for donald trump to base his attacks or his rebuttal to the fact that he's being sued over trump university on race, on the judge's race and now adding that he doesn't think a muslim judge could be fair either? >> well, i don't think that it's solely based just upon the ethnicity. i mean mr. trump also mentioned a number of questionable rulings by this judge not to mention a number of affiliations that this judge has, including the appointing two law firms that are also activists in their nature against mr. trump and his policies. i think it's more than just the ethnicity here.
>> but it's the edthnicity he i putting forward and whether he is asked repeatedly about why he thinks the judge couldn't be fair, it's because he's mexican. do you think that is appropriate? >> he doesn't say, well, he's mexican. >> he does. that's exactly what he says. >> but that's not all he says. he says manufacture the things that i've just mentioned, all chf are important. americans are not, you know, they don't realize that, yes, there is judicial activism in this country. and they know it. and, look, we've been dealing with the mainstream media. can you not have it both ways, joy. kunlt sp you can't spend an entire year saying that donald trump has an issue with mexicans. polls show that mexicans don't like donald trump and then say that's not an issue here. it is clearly an issue. >> the reason i think that media constantly talks about donald trump and his issues with americans who are not white is because he keeps bringing it up on his own. nobody asked him about the judge's background and ethnicity. he brought it up on his own. and whether asked if that would also ably to muslims, he on his
own, without being prompted said that is a problem. he's bringing these things up. >> no. see, the media has the problem with donald trump and race, not donald trump. donald trump is talking specifics. he has policies like the temporary ban on muslim immigration for national security purposes and like stopping illegal immigration and building a border wall to stop drugs from coming into the country. it's the media that turned this into a race thing. because of the way they reported it. it's that simple. >> you don't think that maybe people of mexican dissent might be offended by the idea of being called rapists and saying that mexican migrants are rapists? the media didn't make up that. let me play you a sound bite of donald trump also on his own bringing up race, not the media or mainstream media making him do it. there is donald trump talking to reporters at a rally. take a listen, katrina. >> we had a case where we had an african-american guy who was a fan of mine. great fan. great guy. in fact, want to find out what's going on with him.
do -- look at my african-american over here. look at him. you are the greatest? >> what he did was just a misstep and, again, i wasn't offended by what he said. >> katrina, in response to that, he then retweeted a picture of a random african-american family that had nothing to do with the trump campaign as a way of trying to fix the original my african-american gaffe. why does donald trump keep doing that? why does he go directly to issues of race and do you think it is appropriate for him to call that gentleman in the crowd my african-american? >> to answer your first question, i absolutely think someone should be phoneded if mr. trump had actually said what the media was reporting that he said. because we never hear the next part of the context where there are good people coming in to this country as well. when you are stating department of homeland security statistics, that's not racist. that is just a fact. it is a problem to americans in this country like kate steinly who was killed by an illegal
ailian that continued to return to this country. >> so you're saying it's a fact that mexico is sending rapists over the border and that mexican migrants are by and large rapists? you think that is accurate? >> see, that's another example. >> you just said -- you just said those are stating facts. you said when mexico -- force. >> those are facts. >> they're sending rapists. >> are any of the criminal aliens rapists? any of them? >> that's not what donald trump said. >> he also did not say all. and he also did not say by and large. >> he said they're sending their people here. they're not sending their best. they're sending their rapists. that's what he said. >> he did not say all and did he not say by and large. he simply stating the types of people that are coming into this country, which is widely known,en that administration -- >> he feels the people that worg in the agriculture industry, not in that -- >> that is not the point. >> go back and -- go pla the whole clip. you'll hear him saynd some are coming for other reasons and some are here to work and i'm sure some of them are g does he say all of that stuff.
the media never plays that part. with regard to the quotes at the rally recently with the african-american supporters, this is solely in the context of wanting to know how this african-american man was doing that was at his rally previously. he was talking about the support from the african-american community that he has and was wanting to know how that gentleman was doing. he looks up and sees an african-american which he does in all of his rallies, joy. he points to the veterans. he points out the latinos, sometimes he'll even bring them up on stage. en that time he looks over and leaves out one word supporter which was the context this was being discussed in and all of a sudden donald trump is a racist. but everyone is okay if hillary clinton goes on a black radio show and talks about keeping hot sauce in her purse. that's racist. >> right. >> and the support that donald trump has at the moment, 93% so far polling for hillary clinton. 4% for trump. i guess my african-american is endearing. >> yes, among african-americans. >> yeah, that's -- that's -- that makes a lot of sense.
we're not surprised by. that do you have a question? >> i do have a question for katrina. so we've just spent the better part of this conversation -- your time with us, catrin yask talking about the comments about the judge and comments about other individuals. is there conversation inside the campaign now to change or rework this narrative as we draw closer to the convention over the next few weeks? and what are those steps look like for you as a national spokeswoman? i'm sure you want to move on to other topics that are of much more substance. what does that internal conversation look like right now with mr. trump and paul maneford and corey and others? >> well, right now we're preparing for a strong convention. we are talking about the policy differences between mr. trump and hillary clinton who is likely going to lock up the nomination this week. and that's what we're talking about right now. and especially where hillary clinton is concerned. she just gave a political speech, not a foreign policy speech, that listed a number of
doors that she opened for herself to put criticism under. that's what we're focusing on. when it comes to november, people do not want the status quo. irthink we' i think we've seen that status quo on both sifdz the aisle. then it's going to be about identifying all of those individuals who feel like they don't have a political home. many of those people who have come into the process because of this don't feel like they have a political home. they are maintaining the status quo with hillary clin. >> so there is a quick follow up to this though. is there concerted effort now to move off of this conversation about trump university, to move off of this conversation about the judge specifically, to move off these things that really distracted from the overarching message or is this something that the campaign still has to bake into whatever else you just described you want to talk about over the next few weeks? >> yeah. i think we all want to move on
to substance. but these are the questions that the media is asking. at the same time, we can't sit there and allow the media to define mr. trump and his policies. so we'll focus on this as long as we need to to make sure that it's abundantly clear that does he not see race or gender. he treats everyone the same. he's a counter puncher. he's not going to sit back and let the media criticize him without coming back and clarifying. >> lawrence has a question. i want to remind you is that media is reporting on what donald trump is saying and that's why his statements on race comes out. he is saying them and the media is reporting on them. lawrence has a question. >> you began with a discussion about saying that donald trump's opti objection to the judge in his fraud fril in catrial in califot solely based on ethnicity. so what you're saying there is donald trump is right and you personally believe some of the objections to the judge should legitimately be based on the
judge's ethnicity. and so i'd like to ask you, what is your ethnic back ground? >> i am black and white. >> and you have said that media has been saying for months that donald trump is racist. and you blame any perception of donald trump is racist on the media. but you say that that's out there and, therefore, it is possible that donald trump could have a black judge who would be biassed against him because he's black. i'm just wondering -- >> not at all. >> how would you feel a member of your family was in that position that judge is in in california and a member of your family's integrity as a judge was called into question on the basis that you've laid out here today which is if the media has labelled donald trump a racist, therefore, people out there think it and that judge might be one of them. if that judge is related to you and donald trump wanted that judge knocked off of his case, how you would feel about that? >> well, i think that's a really
nice try. it's not the same considering how mr. trump doesn't have a policy that the media has pitted against black americans like the wall, like anger babies, like amnesty. those are tied into that ethnicity that media has been pushing for months. i has nothing to do with african-americans. in fact, mr. trump after -- mr. trump has not said anything having to do with african-americans with the exception of creating jobs in the african-american community which have been failed mizerbly due to illegal immigration. there was a really nice try. but it's not going to work. it's not the same thing. i understand the media and talking heads out there trying to make it the same thing. but this ethnicity is tied to bl trump's policies specifically. >> and birtherism? >> what about birtherism? >> it is a policy -- >> anchor babies? >> absolutely. >> excuse me. what did you just say? >> are you talking about anchor babies? >>, no i'm talking about birtherism. i'm talking about donald trump doubt thagt president of the united states is an american
accusing him of faking his birth certificate. >> i didn't realize that was a policy. >> it is the reason donald trump became -- >> i didn't realize that is policy. >> it's the reason he became a political figure in 2012. >> i didn't realize that was a policy. is that a policy? >> but if donald trump -- >> it's not a policy. >> but if donald trump is birther, could he not according to what you and lawrence discussing alienate african-americans? >> what does that have to do with african-americans? what did z. that have to do with african-americans? >> does that mean an african-american judge offended by birther six not preside in a case by donald trump? >> that doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever. black people are not offended because maybe somebody was or was not doborn in this country. he is not the standard-bearer for all black americans in this country. i never considered voting for him because his policies are horrendous and we've seen that play out. birther six not eerism is not a.
>> donald trump has asked to seat college transcript of exactly one politician in american history. there is only one he's wondering about is black? >> well, i think it's because most presidential candidates have been asked to see their college transcripts. >> no, they haven't. >> several of them have released them and for whatever reason barack obama has not and spent money on sealing those documents. >> any chance of that? >> can i get them released this afternoon? probably not on a sunday. probably not on a sunday. >> katrina, don't pretend the college transcript thing is a normal thing in presidential campaign. donald trump proved it because he didn't ask for any of his opponents college transcript this is year. not one of them. he's only asked for one person.
>> you're saying only that barack obama is black that he wanted to see his college transcripts? >> it couldn't possibly be that. it's a really funny question. >> when somebody is hiding documents, they're asked to release them. it's not just because the man is black. >> thank you very much. really appreciate you being here. lawrence and michael are sticking around. and we will have much more after the break.
this is one of the worst mistakes trump has made. i think it's inexcusable. first of all, this judge was born in indiana. he is an american, period. >> that is former house speaker newt gingrich this morning denouncing donald trump's comments. you have been who has been very supportive of donald trump saying it's a terrible idea, but it doesn't change anything. >> do you see how far you have
to go to get newt gingrich to say that? newt is on that vp list praying to move up to the number one spot? to g >> i appreciate newt's perspective and i agree with it. i think this, while not fatal, is detrimental. it hurts. the country deserves better, wants better. here's an opportunity to do that. newt, i think, sort of framed it for a lot of folks not just in washington, but around the country. >> but even if the campaign were to advise him to do, would he stop doing that? >> these conversations must be taking place. there are people who we know who are working there, who know what
the right playbook is right now. is that because the people working for him have failed to brick bring it up? >> no, i think that is very much a part of the conversation, but the problem is donald trump is a self-made man. he was three people in the room with him. he got to where he is without these folks. there is that element of growing into the position without all these folks to listen every time. >> he's done quite well on his own. >> they've done this before. >> that's going to be the big test of whether he can do it. up next, we'll go live to puerto rico where polls closed an hour ago and results are expected any minute. stay with us.
all right. thanks for staking with us. i'm joy reed. we continue to keep an eye on pouerto rico where polls in the democratic primary have been closed for about an hour. the results are expected any time. hillary clinton is 60 delegates shy of the magic number to clinch her party's nomination. combined with her win last night in the virgin islands, the clinton campaign is confident they'll score the nomination. >> i'm happy to put my record up against his comments, his rant, and his outright lies anytime. i have said, and i believe this with all my heart, he is not
qualified to be commander and chief either by experience, preparation, or temperament. >> we are in san juan, puerto rico. are those lines still long and are we expecting results any time soon? >> reporter: the lines have shortened up, but people are still voting. there are at least two dozen people still inside waiting to cast their ballot. this is a territory with a tremendous amount of debt, about $72 billion. congress is debating how to help the area and bernie sanders opposed the plan currently before congress. hillary clinton supports it. it was that big dividing line. another unifying line was the election decisions. the lines here were more than
two and a half hours long. there were old people struggling in the heat and handicap people struggling to stay in line for such a long time. they closed many of the polling stations today. people. >> reporter: going -- people we going to unexpected locations. some results have to be hand counted locally. it could be 7:00 p.m. or 10:00 p.m. before we get real hard results. the voters, a lot of confusion, a lot of anger. we caught up with a couple of them. here's what they had to tell us. >> i walk and i can stop and vote. ten minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour. the line for the democrat primaries was an hour at least. >> they can't find my name. doesn't mean it's not there, by the way. >> might be there --
>> she's saying it is. my wife said online it's there. they said they don't have the name. >> reporter: so that kind of confusion is completely typical unfortunately. it's trouble for hillary clinton, i think, because as we look to tuesday she would like to begin a process of unifying the democratic party, -- irregularities here add credence to bernie sanders saying this is far from over. >> joining me now michael steele, lawrence o'donnell, maria, president of voter latina, and joan walsh. puerto rico, this is the only chance for these voters to get on the process. that kind of chaos, does that feed into the sanders credence?
>> at the time when clearly you want to go in the opposite direction. the sanders campaign has been making this point throughout the year and so here they have it again in puerto rico. it's probably most likely a result of the budget crisis. >> exactly, exactly. exactly. >> it's in line what we have seen in other states where you can make a strong case that there was some, you know, deliberate handling going on with voter access. >> in florida, you saw hillary clinton rack up huge numbers in the state of florida, including among puerto rican voters. is this a place bernie sanders would have won, but for this chaos? >> i think bernie's message is absolutely new to them. i do want to go back to this
idea of polling closures. one of the things that we can get blind sighted with is this is the first presidential year without the voting rights act. you have to overcompensate in order to make sure you're meeting those. this idea you're spending two or three hours, you can expect to spend up to 12 hours. that's a time tax for a lot of folks. poor people of color, elderly, they're going to be particularly hit it comes to this in november. >> your party is championing cutting back on early voting, the things that actually cause these kinds of lines and problems. >> i advocated very simple prescription. there's nothing to be afraid about regarding your policies, so go and advocate for them. you should never blame the voters. blame yourself because you didn't advocate the policy the right way. open up the doors to access as
much as possible, which is what i said in the last hour. the states -- and you make a very good point about the voting rights act. more importantly, the states need to get better prepared. budget crises notwithstanding. voting is constitutional. it's elemental. folks are going to be engaged. this could be a 2008 sort of magnitude of response across the spectrum. >> voting is controlled at the local level. all these decisions we saw in phoenix, fewer polling stations, in brooklyn people purged from the polls, all these decisions are made at the lower level. i think there is a deliberate narrative being pedalled that these things don't tie together. i understand why they're frustrating and they're especially frustrating for new
voters who believe the democratic party is some monolith with some control over the ballot. >> it is largely controlled by democratic officials. in brooklyn they are. we can't paint this with a broad brush. yes, republicans have advocated a policy which i think is not necessarily the best policy when it comes to this, but this is something systemic to the system as a whole. >> every single state -- the date the supreme court said we're going to send the voting rights act back to congress every state was supported by legislators. >> this is going to become an issue, specifically with puerto rican voters who have had a p population boom in the state of florida. they're the rising population in florida. cuban americans are actually shrinking in population. could this exacerbate the
problems that are are built in? we were talking about the tax by the judge gonzalo on the republican nominee. >> there's a huge tension that's existed for quite sometime. this is not something new because donald trump has raised gonzalo. there's this, i think, a manufactured tension that one is taking opportunities and jobs from the other. in the political world to the extent that that's exploited that's where you run into a big problem with these respecti ivi communities. >> do you think there's a risk that democrats take for granted that we have these communities covered, we don't have to worry about this? >> if democrats take anything for granted this year -- >> fair enough. >> is that a possibility? >> i think this is where the narrative of how are you going
to use michelle obama and president obama out on the road because there is going to be -- we just saw katrina pearson really try to exploit the difference between latinos and african-americans. you're already starting to see where the line of division is going to be. this is where president obama and the first lady have to go out and remind folks who is the one that caused so much pain to these communities. >> you're going to get some reminders about birtherism. african-americans remember that. >> the administration produces another month of 38,000 jobs. we don't need to talk about birtherism. there are some policy dynamics that are going to be very important for both sides to get in front of. that's why i asked the question about what is the policy plan going forward because that's the ultimate driver.
it's not the birth eerism or th race stuff. it's where the economy is. >> you have a candidate that seems unable to focus on these policy details even when they help -- >> work with a brother. >> coming up next, why tuesday night could be a great night for hillary clinton even if she loses california.
be part of this great campaign. we're going to go to philadelphia and we're going to win in november. >> that was hillary clinton in new jersey on wednesday talking up this tuesday's primary. clinton is up 27 points in new jersey according to the latest polling. if she holds onto that lead, she may win enough delegates to be declared the presumptive democratic nominee before the polls even close. joining me my guests. beth, for hillary clinton, you know, the psychological, i guess, kind of demerit of losing california, it would be probably pretty big. how would it balance out if she is declared the nominee on tuesday and lose california the same night? >> that would be a very strange situation and one that could well happen. she's having our election night party here on the east coast in
brooklyn, not out in california. yet another signal that that state is not going to define how that evening goes. it's very likely she will win new jersey. as you pointed out, the polling showed her there strongly. she was a senator from new york. this area is very familiar with hillary clinton. losing california would be bad. there's no doubt about it. it's the nation's biggest state. it's the nation's most diverse state. it's a state that democrats have to win. for her to come up short there is going to be a demerit no matter how she does in new jersey. >> if she loses, it would be because of independents. wouldn't that demonstrate a big problem for her in the fall if independents are spurning her in a state like california? >> i really don't think so. i think the number of genuine independents is way inflated. we have lean dems and lean
republicans. if they voted for bernie sanders, they're going to be inclined to vote for her. i really don't worry about it, but i do worry about what it will look like if she loses -- the optics. she wins the big diverse states. for her to suddenly lose one would, i think, be damaging. >> the thing that sticks in the side of bernie sanders is the superdelegates. let's put up the map one more time. it isn't superdelegates that are causing hillary clinton to be ahead. hillary clinton has 2326 delegates. she has 552 supers. bernie sanders has 1548 and 46 superdelegates. if you look at the raw number of pledged delegates, she is still winning. superdelegates aren't making her win.
has there been enough of an uproar that democrats have to change this? >> yes. i was a fan of the way superdelegates worked in the 90s, but they have 714 of them now. there are 232 democrats in the house and the senate. i think you could say that's where superdelegate status begins, but it doesn't go down to every city councillor. and they might also want to rethink their role. should a superdelegate be required to remain silent, remain neutral, about this until the convention. or make a choice. i want to endorse a candidate. therefore i'm going to surrender my superdelegate position. that person could become a delegate through supporting the candidate. they might want to do that
because what bernie sanders has illuminated about this is that it is an anti-democratic force. it simply is. most of the superdelegates sided with hillary clinton before a vote was cast anywhere in america. they didn't wait to see what is democracy telling us. they had no patience for that. i think if the party is going to invite voters to have the feeling that they are actually selecting the nominee, they have to pull the superdelegates' power down to something that really surrenders the power to the voters or just tell them, look, we're interested in what you have to say. we're going to run some extremely expensive elections to find out what you're thinking, but we're going to keep 714 who can do whatever they want. >> i agree that there are too many. but i think if you say you must be silent through the convent n convention, then basically what you're saying is back in 2008 barack obama doesn't start his campaign until the end of august. you don't have hillary clinton
working side by side with barack obama through the convention. you really shorten the campaign. you would have donald trump out there as the presumptive nominee and hillary clinton having to sit here and pretend she's not going to be the nominee. i think there are problems with forcing them to remain neutral through the convention. >> but at the same time, if you didn't have superdelegates, then you would have what republicans have, which is a case where the base of the party makes a decision that the party at large does not agree with, but the party leadership can't do anything about because they don't have superdelegates. >> to that point, your analysis is totally accurate. but bernie sanders is out there declaring he can switch superdelegates. yes, they can switch. if they saw he truly was the candidate of all the people, who was getting most of the votes, who was going to be the future of the democratic party, they would switch. but every time he's asked he can't come up with one
superdelegate that's switching to him. >> republicans do have disguised superdelegates, which is the entire convention. the rules committee, if they run into an emergency and their nominee gets arrested. i'm not saying donald trump. there's something you've got to do, right? the rules committee would say we're passing a rule that you do not have to have run in the primaries to put your name in for the nomination. any party could do it. but the republicans can do it without superdelegates. you have to have that emergency bailout from your so-called voted nominee in case something goes crazy with that nominee. >> the other issue is this issue of closed primaries. i think a lot of democrats look at open primaries and say why is it fair for people who aren't in the party to pick and people that say it's not fair to
independents to leave them out. >> the bill clinton era dnc weakened the power of the base, of african-americans, of labor, of feminists. they thought the party had become captured by special interests. it is ironic that mr. progressive is the one now -- it is the one thing that he agrees on with bill clinton. mitch mcconnell says he couldn't disagree with donald trump more about his comments.
>> i couldn't disagree more with a statement like that. >> is it a racist statement? >> i couldn't disagree more with what he had to say. >> but do you think it's a racist statement to say? >> i don't agree with what he had to say. this is a man who is born in indiana. >> establishment republicans like the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell can only expect to face more difficult questions about donald trump as we move toward election day. three times mitch mcconnell is asked is the statement racist and he doesn't answer. was it racist for donald trump to bring up the judge's race? >> it's hard to say. >> come on, michael. >> i'm not one of these people who is going to ascribe racism
to everything somebody says. i would never characterize him as a racist. can he say a racist thing? yes. it can be interpreted by others that way. now you have the leadership of the party sitting in front of chuck todd or anyone else to be asked and answered those questions. that's the reality of it. >> is this the very first time that donald trump talked about anybody's ethnicity on the campaign trail? you could shrug your shoulders. he was using mexican as a dirty word. i'm going to be unfair because this person was xyz. you have to hold him accountable just like you have to hold him accountable when he says his birther state created the birther movement. >> i agree with that. again, i'm a little bit more sensitive about this then i guess maybe i should be or maybe
than some people are. i don't like to start the conversation with that characterization not knowing the intent of the person. i can't take the words on face value. >> at the same time, the next time he said would you have the same problems if it was a muslim judge he said yes. he is doubling down. he didn't have to go after this judge's ethnicity. the judgment wasn't going to be until after the november election. hey, you know what? i'm feeling pressure because my country is changing. you should feel pressure too because people are not being fair to you. >> he's now basically disqualified to an ethnic group and a religious group from being on the judiciary. while donald trump is president -- >> it could wind up hurting republicans in november. not only do you have donald trump on the ballot, but several senate seats. they're defending more senate seats than democrats are. mitch mcconnell was asked if
this controversy could have reverberations to the hispanic vote. take a listen. >> are you worried that donald trump is going to leave a stain on the party the way goldwater did? >> i am concerned about the hispanic vote. america is changing. when ronald reagan was elected, 84% of the electorate was white. i think it is a big mistake for our party to write off latino americans. >> that is a generous estimate. can the republican party survive without being able to grow its support among people of color? >> that sounds like someone who can do the math and that sounds like someone who knows it is hopeless. >> certainly on the current t trajectory it makes it much more difficult. the asian community seems to be a little bit put off as well. then you throw in white men to layer that case and it's not going to be an easy election.
having said that, we sit here today and national polling has donald trump within two percentage points of hillary clinton. yes, it's june, but i'm just saying you have to look at this thing in total over the course of time once you get into a convention, after a convention setting. i know a lot of people want to think this election is over and the democrats are going to lock it down and run away with it. i would not take that bet. not at this table, but i have talked to folks in the room who actually believe that. this is not going to be that election, folks. >> absolutely not. donald trump has not only gone after judges, reporters. this is a pattern where he's trying to divide a group of americans and other them. that's the most dangerous place you could possibly be. >> he's finally potentially solved one of the democrat's biggest problem. one of the problems is to try to get a hispanic demographic to
match the votes. you have major voter registration going on among latino voters. >> it is up 98% in california alone. >> i've been in races, folks, where the registration has been great, but the turnout doesn't match it. the big focus for the campaign for hillary clinton is to take, for example, that foreign policy speech he gave this week and turn it into something that translates into votes for a lot of americans, especially white americans who are doubtful of her right now. >> the candidate has cooperate with that -- >> i'm talking about hillary clinton. >> right, yeah. we are going to come back and talk a lot more about this. thank you to my panelists. we're going to be joined by economic legend dick van dyke and why he says he's backing bernie this year. ♪
the job. >> and you know why we're here. because we feel the bern. >> actor danny devito appears in an ad for bernie sanders, but he's not the only celebrity who has jumped on the sanders band wagon. joining me now is actor and comedian dick van dyke. dick is a bernie sanders supporter. dick van dyke, it is so exciting to talk to you. >> it's a pleasure. >> thank you. tell us why you're feeling the bern. >> can i just say something to start? >> sure. >> i was watching earlier. the whole thrust of the program seemed to be hillary clinton is the presumptive nominee and bernie should drop out. don't you think people could go to the polls and say why waste my vote on a loser?
don't you think that has some power behind it? >> absolutely. i think calling the race would depress votes in california. do you think if the media were to say after the polls close in new jersey it's over, hillary clinton is the nominee -- do you think that would hurt turnout in california? >> yes. i think people will say why waste my vote on the loser. i think a lot of people might do that and jump on the wrong band wagon like some of the republicans did. >> why do you think bernie sanders is the right band wagon? >> well, the first time i heard him speak he was saying what i've been saying for the last four decades. whether or not he's elected, i think his message transcends this election. it's about my grandkids and my great grandkids. i believe we're headed to an oligarchy. i really do. >> there's been a celebrity primary taking place as there
always in these presidential primaries. when you talk to your friends out there in hollywood world, do you find more of them are for sanders or is it evenly split for hillary clinton? of your sanders supporter friends, are they never hillary? >> no, almost everyone i know is a bernie supporter. certainly hillary is fine. it would be the status quo. things wouldn't change for much. a lot of people are afraid bernie is too drastic. it's the new deal again only not quite so harsh. is michael seal there? >> i am, sir. i'm right here. how are you doing, mr. van dyke? >> mike, one day i heard you say take a hike, dick van dyke. i wondered if that was personal or just a saying. >> oh, no. >> get him, van dyke. get him. >> no, no, no, no. that was not personal at all. >> i can't even imagine. >> dick van dyke, we love that.
we need you to come on and do that every day. >> okay. >> since i got you, i do have a question for you. i understand where you are with bernie sanders, but you also understand where the math is right now and just how challenging the next few days will be for the sanders campaign to stay in front of the narrative, if you will, that mr. sanders has put out there. after tuesday, what is the expectation that you and supporters like you have of bernie sanders and the sanders campaign if it doesn't go the way you would like it to go on tuesday night? >> well, knowing bernie, he'll keep on. he won't disappear. i don't think his supporters won't either. are you familiar with the lewis powell memorandum? >> no. >> i am, sir. 1971. >> yeah. i'd like for people to google that memorandum. he send it to the national
chambers of commerce and said there's too much democracy going on and a threat to capitalism. we have to break up the solidarity that americans have been showing. i think they have done a pretty good job. turn on the television and see the anger. >> what do you think is the most important issue, mr. van dyke? is it wall street? sit bre is it breaking up the banks? is it the minimum wage? >> to keep the regulations on wall street and the banks so what happened in 08 won't happen again. millions of americans lost everything. there is some provision in the dodd-frank bill. it's a little weak, but at least it is there. i am hopeful there is a provision in there to protect whistle-blowers. i'm hoping a few people will step forward now. >> mr. van dyke, it's a pleasure to be on television with you. my question for you is if in
november bernie sanders is not the democratic nominee and hillary clinton is on the ballot, can you see yourself voting for her? there are other celebrity bernie sanders supporters who have said they can't see themselves doing it. i'm just wondering are you one of those people or are you a bernie sanders supporter who could see themselves voting for hillary clinton if she is the nominee. >> hillary doesn't bother me at all. it will be the status quo. not much will change, but we don't want benito musilini. >> now that you're middle aged, i'm wondering if you can give us the wisdom you have as a voter from this perspective that you didn't have in the early years of your voting. >> well, i remember i voted
for -- when i came of age -- truman. i became a democrat. then i voted for ike. i would accept either one of them back right now. >> mr. van dyke, we have not much time left with you, but i would love to get your assessment of the barack obama presidency as it nears its end. >> what i have seen -- they put a brick wall up and stopped him at every turn. i remember mitch mcconnell. he had just barely taken office. he hadn't even done anything yet. i remember talking to carter who said because of the lobbyists he got so little done. even woodrow wilson said there's an invisible force running this country and he named the banks
and wall street. it's a very old problem and bernie is aware of it and i'm with him. >> dick van dyke, it's been such a pleasure talking to you. thank you so much for hanging out with you. >> same to you, joy. >> i never said that. >> we love you. thank you very much, sir. next, in bernie sanders own words what he thinks hillary clinton must do to win over his supporters.
if i am not the nominee, we're going to fight to become the nominee. it is secretary clinton's job to explain to those people why she should be -- why she should get their support. that means she is going to have to address their needs. secretary clinton is going to have to make the convincing argument to them how can it be that she is getting huge amounts of money from wall street and special interests and she is
going to stand up and fight for them. >> are you going to work hard to make sure donald trump loses, whether it is you or her? >> yes. >> wins? >> yes. >> listening to bernie sanders, lawrence, can you imagine bernie sanders out on the stump for hillary clinton? >> oh, sure. >> you can? >> no problem. absolutely. you can just give that speech that hillary clinton gave the other day which was an anti-donald trump speech. you're going to have new material every day and bernie sanders, if he's not the nominee, absolutely will be out there campaigning for hillary clinton. >> does he risk alienating his own supporters? >> i don't think it risks anything. we have seen this so many times before. there is just no suspense in this part of the movie. it is against donald trump. that is just the easiest adjustment for him to make.
>> joy, he has already begun to substitute donald trump has his punching bag in his california speeches. he's not going about her goldman sachs speeches. to some extent, a pivot has already occurred. >> i do think though that bernie sanders, while he sounded fairly arrogant in that interview, he is right. it is very true that hillary clinton does need to persuade these people, many of whom are young people who have no loyalty to the democratic party, to the clinton family, who don't remember the peace and prosperity of the 90s, they just remember what they know of clinton now, which is somebody who is taking these speeches from banks and tell them why she is progressive and the person who is going to be an effective voice for them as bernie sanders was. it's going to be a pretty steep climb for a lot of people. >> bernie sanders talked about even the notion that he could somehow deliver his supporters
to her on a platter. really doesn't make sense. listen. >> the idea that i can snap my fingers and have millions of supporters kind of march in line, that is not what our effort is about. i think if i am not the nominee, it is secretary clinton's job to explain to those people why she should be -- why she should get their support. >> that is technically true. he can not just make his supporters support her. >> no, but the job of the vanquished is to help bring your supporters along. i keep going back to hillary clinton's speech in 2008. she said i'm out of the race, but i encourage you to vote for barack obama and i'm going to go out there and campaign to make sure he becomes president of the united states. she went out there and told her supporters, asked them to vote for him, for obama.
bernie sanders, if he does not want the democratic party to be torn apart, he's got to also make the case for why she should be president. he's got to give his supporters a reason to vote for her. it is not just her -- yes, she has to get everyone's votes. she has to ask for their support, but what does it say if she asks for their support, but bernie sanders doesn't say, yes, you should? >> i think he will eventually. the question to me is timing. i am very concerned it will continue despite what i said before. the contested convention could be about the platform or it could be that he continues to appeal to the superdelegates. there are going to be a lot of women on tuesday night who want that declaration of our first female nominee has been chosen. they will want it. they will celebrate it. people will be toasting. to then have somebody say, yeah, she won the most votes and
delegates, but i'm going to appeal to the superdelegates and continue to say that -- i mean, he gets a day. he gets three days to pull it together. if he doesn't, i think you'll have a lot of people turning on him, including possibly the president. >> to your point, that speech that you described where she threw her support behind obama was in june before an august convention. there was a ton of time where she was out there campaigning for him before the convention. what you're describing is a very tense situation that could go into the convention this time in july, but still in several weeks where things are unresolved if he doesn't go behind her. >> you had 72 that wasn't exactly a picnic. you had 80 where ted kennedy reluctantly grabbed the hand of jimmy carter. how would it look for bernie sanders to contest on the floor, if he were to do that? >> theoretically, it would be an
academic exercise, so it would look as undramatic as it sounds. it would include speech making and take up some time, be possibly a more interesting evening of television we're going to have that night, but not much more than that. >> could he have himself nominated from the floor because of the number of delegates that he has? could he nominate himself? >> i believe he can. i haven't studied that part of the rules. >> releasing your delegates because the high drama moment of these conventions because the vanquished candidate gives it back to the party. >> they are clearly very independent thinkers. this was not a place that probably most of them were going to arrive at two years ago. he started off at 3% in the polls, which means all of these people had a different opinion at the beginning of the campaign. they independently worked their
"dinner!" "may i be excused?" get the new xfinity tv app and for the first time ever stream live tv, watch on demand, and download your dvr shows anywhere. as we wait for more votes to come in from puerto rico, let's go back to san juan. tony, what are people telling you? >> reporter: hey, joy. they're telling me that they really, really, really wish there had been more polling stations open today.
there were only 445. that's done from 1100 originally announced last month. the polls finally closed. they were officially closed at 3:00 p.m., but people were voting until about 4:30, 4:45. now the counting is happening behind this iron gate. this is the party that is running the election today. it's a local party here in san juan. they're in charge of how things operate here. we talked to the director of the election process for this party. he told us that because of the contraction in the number of polling stations many voters went to new stations. they had to be checked in by hand. they had to vote by hand. we've got a delay because of the number of voters who turned up. the limited numbers of polling stations, and the arduous process of going city by city, region by region, and hand counting what looks like a record turnout. the party here in san juan said
they've never seen it this busy before. will it be hillary clinton? will it be bernie sanders? we're not going to know until perhaps 7:00 p.m. it could even be 10:00 p.m. if there is a win tonight for hillary clinton, it doesn't close things out just yet. she is about 60 delegates shy of that magic number she would like to get heading into the convention in july. she probably won't do it here. it looks like it will wait until tuesday. then the unification process will have to begin. back to you. >> thank you very much. really appreciate that. really appreciate it. as a matter of fact, we will be waiting for those results if they come in at 7:00, 8:00, 9:00, or 10:00. we'll be here to bring them to you. what that means for hillary clinton and bernie sanders, hillary clinton less than 70 votes away. she's hoping she can clinch it this week. that is our show for today. chris matthews picks up our coverage next. you can keep it right here on msnbc.
good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. democrats in conflict while hillary clinton calls for the party to unite. now senator bernie sanders is defiant. he's threatening to bring his fight to the convention floor. in other words, there's no sign of a peace deal yet. polls closed in puerto rico. they closed at 3:00 eastern. according to nbc's count heading into tonight's contest, clinton has 54 delegates. she is 54 from the finish line. he faces the prospect of bernie sanders refusing to bow out. let's watch. >> at the end of the nominating process, no candidate will have enough pledged delegates to call
a campaign a victory. they'll the dependent upon superdelegates. in other words, the democratic national convention will be a contested convention. >> he's being direct. today secretary clinton said she expects sanders to work to unify the party after tuesday's contest. >> after tuesday i'm going to do everything i can to reach out to try to unify the democratic party. i expect senator sanders to do the same. we'll come together and be prepared to go to the convention in a unified way to make our ca case, to leave the convention, to go into the general election to defeat donald trump. muhammad ali's buddy is en route to the funeral in kentucky. we'll more on the life of ali throughout our coverage tonight. let's start with the clinton
campaign. kristen, give us the lay of the land. hell of a week for hillary clinton. hell of a bad week for donald trump. is this going to help her against bernie sanders on tuesday or are they separate worlds? >> reporter: i think it could absolutely help her. what secretary clinton had this past week when she delivered what was dubbed as a foreign policy address, but it was really all aimed at tearing apart donald trump, his foreign policy positions, piece by piece, a lot of folks thought she was effective and that she essentially made donald trump look small, but this democratic primary as well. she sort of took the narrative back and took the news cycle back in the process. i think that what she did this week is show a lot of democrats who were dubious that she can be a strong voice against donald trump. the polls are showing a very
tight race and a speech like that could galvanize some democrats around her. of course, the big argument you hear both of these democratic candidates making is that each one is the stronger candidate to take an donald trump. senator sanders main argument is he has the largest lead in these national polls against donald trump. that's why you hear him talk about a contested convention if there is no pledged delegate winner after this process. all eyes are on california. there's no doubt about that. we know a number of secretary clinton's top advisers had a hand in her speech. hey, this has to be a turning point in this campaign, both rhetorically and politically. to some extent what's interesting, chris, if you go back and look at that speech, it was one of the more authentic moments for clinton.
that all went away when she delivered that speech. the question and the challenge for her, can she keep it up. she certainly was fired up yesterday in california. i was with her. this event set to get under way shortly. it's a small event. we'll have to see if she brings that same type of fire. this is more of a discussion, but certainly the goal within the clinton campaign is to keep up that pace heading into next tuesday and beyond. >> do you believe she'll turn this same kind of critical and sarcastic approach to bernie sanders that she used to attack trump this week? will she get that tough? >> reporter: i don't think so. i don't think we have seen her get that tough this entire primary process. she mentioned senator sanders yesterday for the first time in what seemed like weeks. she has all but stopped talking about senator sanders. she talked about their different policies over immigration and the latino vote so critical here
in california. she is saving her sharpest rhetoric for donald trump. this question of party unity, she and her surrogates are turning up the pressure on bernie sanders. here in california throughout the weekend in that clip that you played and in his conversations with reporters he has been defiant. >> great reporting. kelly o'donnell is in san diego. kelly, what's happening with bernie sanders? i mean, he said he was going to release his tax returns before the convention. bernie sanders says he's going to fight this all the way to the convention. what do you think? what can you report? >> reporter: well, i can tell you this is a different scenario than we saw in 2008 where hillary clinton did concede then to then senator barack obama for the sake of party unity. no indications yet that bernie sanders is in that frame of
mind. we saw that on the republican side where there were people like ted cruz and john kasich fighting and fighting and fighting and then melted away. bernie sanders believes he has a shot to win california. he is not taking his foot off the gas. we jumped ahead to san diego where he'll have one of his big rallies in the parking lot. earlier today, he did the sunday brunch stroll making unannounced stops at some sunday brunch places around west hollywood and hollywood. then he'll be making his drive down from los angeles. he was able to talk to voters, encouraging people to turn out. one of the things he has told us is he is concerned on tuesday when another big state is voting then, new jersey, when those polls close east coast time, there will be a push to call the race not just for the primary day, but for the entire nominating process for hillary clinton. he is concerned that could depress the vote in california and could be a factor.
he doesn't know which way it would go, effecting clinton's voters or his voters. the argument he makes is that he recognizes he is behind in delegates in the pledged form and in the superdelegates, those party officials many of whom committed to clinton before the voting even started. his argument is he has the momentum. he says he is bringing younger voters, not just college age, and saying they are the future of the party. clinton has done better in older voters, senior citizens and so forth. he intends to go beyond tuesday. now the math will get harder for him if it doesn't go his way tuesday and also with the results coming in today, but he is committed. when you look at this, we are not seeing the type of scenario where typically someone in the party would kind of follow the protocol of conceding and
looking for party unity. remember, he has not been a democrat his whole life. he's the longest serving independent. he's keeping that independent streak kind of feisty and saying to voters he's been touched by the outpouring and donations from people who are unemployed and poor. a lot of emotion behind bernie sanders. chris, he just does not want to give this up. >> i think you've got it right. good reporting. there have been long lines and lots of confusion today in puerto rico. we're in san juan. what is going on out there? >> reporter: good question, chris. let me tell you this. whether hillary clinton wins or loses tonight, it can feel like a loss. let me set the scene. this is officer rodriguez. she is guarding the final counts going on behind this iron gate right here. polls officially closed at 3:00
p.m., but it wasn't until 4:45 p.m. that the final voter walked out. the political party right behind me that was running the election cut the number of polling stations from more than 2,000 back in 2008, 1500 were announced in early may, by the end of the month it was 1100, then today only 445 polling stations. we had lines peaking at two and a half hours long. other stations had four-hour lines. >> what is behind this? tony, why is this going on? grownup people with minds make these decisions. who is responsible? >> reporter: the party is responsible, but the party is not responsible for the lack of funds that they have to run this election. puerto rico, this is one of the key issues being voted on today. it is a country with $70 billion in debt.
congress is talking about ways to rescue the country and bailout the territory. the party had its funds cut from $15 million to run the election to $7 million. they were doing the best they can. they say that, look, we had four times as many polling stations as the republicans. the problem being that turnout today was tremendous. what you had is voters turning away, going away, giving up, not casting their vote. that gives the bernie sanders campaign and bernie sanders supporters the opportunity to once again say, look, this is another arizona. this is another wisconsin. this is another new york. if this primary season had different rules, we might have a different outcome than the one we're looking at right now with hillary clinton within 60 delegates of reaching that magic number. she is expected to win today. she does very well with puerto ricans on the mainland. it adds fuel to bernie sanders' argument going into tuesday to say this is beyond an even
playing field. i'm going to try to sway the superdelegates. this is far from over. >> let's bring in our panel tonight. thank you. i just wonder these things keep happening. hillary gets blamed for something she may have had nothing to do with or she may have had something to do with. why are voting stations the old trick to get the turnout down? >> i have no idea. i can't imagine she would have anything to do with that. at the end of these races, these are the kind of things that happen. the thing that i find most interesting is that we had rules established at the beginning of this race. you've not had a democratic nominee win the nomination without the help of some superdelegates and not a lot of superdelegates. this is not uncommon. senator sanders has run a
valiant, strong, race, where he has raised some of the most important, if not the most important, issue going forward for the country. how do we deal with massive inequalities? but he lost or he's not winning. to suggest at a time in which the other opponent is coalescing his party, organizing his party, that you want to fight through the convention and argue that you're going to make it messy, i don't think it's a responsible or mature thing to do. if you're serious about the politics and serious about the policies that you have raised in this campaign -- i applaud him for that. he was not successful in that effort. that does not give him the right to say i'm going to screw up the democratic party convention. i've served with him in the congress. i've admired some of his positions. at the end of the day, he did not align himself with the party. to now say that you believe so strongly in yourself, even though the majority of
democratic voters did not in the rules that were established when you entered this race, you were unable to win in that system, you now say you're going to go to a convention and contest it at a time which republicans are organizing and coalescing and are pointing their message and directing a lot of that energy at us. donald trump has figured out a way, i think, to campaign in a more effective way than he was four weeks ago. that is the danger in what bernie sanders is doing. >> i would say bernie sanders, the senator, is worriless. he is going to have a contested convention. i'm going to go fight this out. this is a political revolution. you don't turn against the revolution if you're the leader of it. he wants the next five weeks to do battle with the clintons. he doesn't want to fold the tent. >> he hasn't given any signs that he's about to hoist a white flag. a lot of people have said what about his responsibility to the party. if you were to ask bernie sanders, i don't know that he feels a responsibility to the
party because he hasn't been part of the democratic party. i think he feels a responsibility to the core principles of this election, income inequality, education. he has a bit of a stubborn streak. >> i think they're mixed together. he could have joined the democratic party in vermont and had a good shot at winning. he chose not to identify with the old party. he said, no, i'm a pure social democrat. i'm more left than these people and i'm not going to join them. >> he's voted 90-plus percent with the democrats. >> that's the only option you have. he can only join the one party of the center left. >> the reality is for sanders supporters and some of them are young and not really involved in
the process -- look, primaries are run by states. they are controlled by the state legislatures. caucuses are run by state parties. they are not run by the hillary clinton campaign. the chaos you're seeing in puerto rico is a result of the thing bernie sanders says makes him win, which is high voter turnout. he hasn't been able to demonstrate he's been able to produce record voter turnout. >> that revolution hasn't happened. >> right. it's on the other side. then the second piece of it he hasn't proved, at least up to now, that he can win the obama coalition, the diverse coalition, which is what you need. >> i'm certain there's a coalition. if bernie sanders wants hillary clinton to buy his agenda, that's usually what you do when you win. >> right. there are rules that have existed in politics, business, academia for a long time. if you have more votes than the person you're running against, you have the ability to make those changes. now, i happen to think a lot of what he has talked about should
be included in the platform. >> which part? $15 minimum wage. >> i think we should raise the minuimum wage. >> to $15? that's what he wants. hillary clinto health care, is it right? >> i think it should be far more affordable. we have to figure out how to afford it. >> you want to michigan law school, right? >> i think everybody should have to put a little skin in the game for everything we get in this country. i think we need a progressive tax system. if you make a lot more, you should pay more to the system. >> you know we have a progressive tax system. you know that. what are you kidding me? >> we all know them. my only point is this is the time to sit down. mrs. clinton said i'm going to call him and we'll sit and have a real conversation. i don't think there's anything
wrong with him being passionate, but we're acting as if mrs. clinton doesn't identify or align with overwhelming majority of what this party cares about. >> i think she is more centrist and he's more leftist. >> if you don't align yourself with her, then we end up with donald trump. i wish we had perfect choices. we don't have perfect choices. >> i think he's running in his view a movement. >> why would you shortchange your movement if you have a better chance with hillary clinton? >> peace is not at hand. it may come. in september, he could do it. remember gene mccarthy final came out for humphrey? >> what i am raising to him and some of his supporters is this
is about math. there were rules established at the beginning. >> is bernie sanders, senator sanders, of vermont a team player with the teammatedemocra? >> i hope he will be. >> we'll have to be back very soon. we're starting to see our first results from puerto rico. it is still very early. just a handful of votes are in now, but we'll continue to watch. bernie sanders is still promi promising a convention fight. that's coming up ahead here. later, donald trump.
delegates to claim victory on tuesday night. at the end of the nominating process, no candidate will have enough pledged delegates to call the campaign a victory. they'll be dependent upon superdelegates. in other words, the democratic national convention will be a contested convention. >> we heard it there, contested convention. welcome back to "hardball." the let's get an update on where things stand between hillary clinton and senator sanders right now. we'll go to steve kornacki at the big board. >> let's take a look at the argument sanders is making here. it gets complicated. it hinges on the fact there are two different kinds of delegates in the democratic race.
let's take you through the math. this is what he is talking about mainly, pledged delegates. you run in these primaries and caucuses around the country. clinton is at 1776. this is current to this very moment. last night she won the virgin islands convention. he gets seven more delegates from that. sanders is saying the magic number is 2383. you need that to be declared the democratic nominee. she's not going to hit 2383 just from pledged delegates. that's probably right. however, take a look at this. the second kind of delegate that's out there is the superdelegate. elected officials, party leaders, they automatically get votes at the convention. they're saying their preference is overwhelmingly for hillary
clinton. 553 for her. not even 50 for sanders. massive margin. sanders is saying these are not etched in stone. why would they change their mind when they are overwhelmingly committed to hillary clinton right now and when she is going to win the pledged delegate count and she will win the popular vote when this is over? if you add those two together, you see she is very close at this moment to that magic number of 2383. she's at 2329 right now. we still have puerto rico to come in. there are 60 pledged delegates up for grabs there. when you get away from tonight, we have one more day of big contests on tuesday. you know how they do these delegat
delegates. clinton could theoretically blown out of new jersey. she'll probably get the pledged delegates she needs to go over that number. those superdelegates, they could still technically change their mind. that's true. technically they could still change their mind, but what would make them change their mind if hillary clinton has a majority of the pledged delegates and she's going to have the majority of the popular vote as well? what argument then could bernie sanders make to them to say ignore the popular vote, ignore the pledged delegates, and all turn on hillary clinton and vote for me. that's what he would have to do. >> this is so amazing. i'm trying to find out the sports metaphor for this, steve, because in baseball if the home team is ahead in the bottom of the ninth, you don't have a bottom of the ninth. it's over. they walk off. i guess the difference is he can technically win something. sky falls between now and the
convention and he could still win. >> some sort of major, unforeseen delegate. that's what the superdelegates are there for if there were some extreme circumstance where the democratic party establishment thought they needed to intervene. again, it's so overwhelming. the one thing to keep in mind here that's interesting is the posturing from bernie sanders right now. eight years ago at this time the final days of the democratic race in 2008, you had hillary clinton out there. she had no chance of winning the pledged delegates. she was still making an argument to superdelegates back then as well. part of her argument was electability. as soon as the primaries ended in 2008, she changed that posture. she didn't fight it all the way to the convention. let's see what he does when these primaries come in. >> hillary clinton was a young
woman with a future in the democratic party. bernie is neither of those. thank you very much. are democrats ready for a messy floor fight in philadelphia when they meet next month? governor rendell, what does philly want? what would philly like for excitement? would this be something else if we went to wednesday night and the roll call and bernie sanders waving his arms in the air saying i'm going to win this thing? >> if you're into dramatics, absolutely right. that wouldn't be harmful at all. chris, if you recall, in conventions past, four or five candidates were placed in nominations. there were nominating speeches. there's nothing wrong with that.
delegates want to vote for the campaign and candidate they voted for and campaigned for. when it reached new york, roll call moved it to acclimation. we were disappointed we couldn't cast our vote. there's nothing wrong with that fight as long as it remains positive. cheer for bernie. cheer for hillary. but we're democrats and united. cheer for your candidate and that's it. >> it seems to me the fun of politics is fighting until election night. and election night is the third night of the convention. >> i think the issue really is -- >> you don't agree, do you? what would hillary's people have against a fight to the finish? >> i don't agree at this moment because the other side you have an incredibly dangerous figure who is actually using bernie sanders words every single day.
>> you really think trump can beat hillary at this point? >> i think trump is dangerous. >> can he beat hillary? >> i think he is temperamentally unfit. i think the electorate is so angry -- elections are always about either hopes or fears. ultimately hillary is about hopes and getting things done. donald trump is about fears. >> what do you mean by fears? >> i think it's that donald trump is stoking the fears and the anger and the frustration. >> i don't think so. >> but at the end of the day i think the issue really becomes we've had a great campaign. >> you still think trump can win this general election after this week? >> i don't take anything for granted. >> let's have your thoughts. i'm not don king, but i do think bernie has the wind at his back. he's going to have a good
showing if show ing in california this week. i don't know why he wants to tell his millions of people behind him to quit. >> i don't think he should. as a bernie delegate, what's important to me is the message he has been pushing forward. i don't only think it's important for the soul of the party. i think it is important for the soul of this country. you see the rise of donald trump that's based on exclusivity and hate. we should be pushing as much as we can of inclusiveness and the access of equality and income inequality. >> why should she adopt it if she wins? >> without that message, i think it is harder to push back against trump. >> i think hillary has adopted it -- >> hillary is not a lefty. she is not on the political left. >> hillary has adopted the message of fighting the political --
>> but she's not a bernie. why do you want to make her into one? >> both of them voted the same 93% of the time. can we please go back to she has 3 million more votes? she has more pledged delegates. >> think about this. think how much time people have heard to hear her message versus how many times people have heard his message and he's catching fire. the message is extremely important. >> governor, i want to ask you one question. is hillary clinton smart to cut a deal with bernie that basically says i'm going to lay down before your agenda? we're going to have free university and college state tuition. would you go down with the bernie agenda at the price to get him to support you before the convention? i wouldn't. i'd beat him first and then negotiate. >> and she won't do that because hillary clinton does believe in
issues. for example, on the free college tuition. under no circumstances would she agree that people who have got money should get free college tuition. under no circumstances. there are significant differences. she'll try to work out those differences in compromise. the point randy was about to make is a good one. imagine if bernie sanders had 3 million more popular votes and had a significant majority of the elected delegates. can you imagine if the superdelegates put hillary clinton in as the nominee? we'd have riots in the streets. bern bernie's people are asking the superdelegates to do something that is undemocratic. it is time to declare a winner. >> why don't we get the kn nomenclature right?
>> i'm focused on the message that is extremely important. whoever comes out of the convention, i'm going to support, but the message is extremely important. that is why he is getting wind in his sails. they want this revolution. >> you want hillary to be a revolutionary leader? she's not. >> 3 million more people have voted in the democratic process for hillary. >> but the process is not complete. >> but on tuesday -- >> sure. >> on tuesday, we will have someone who has achieved the number of delegates for the democratic convention. >> and we have someone who does better in polls against the presumptive nominee of the republican party. i think that's because of the message he's pushing. >> do you think at this point in her life she's going to become a revolutionary? >> no, i don't. i do believe if we continue the conversation she'll adopt more and more of what he's saying because we know we need to
include those people in. >> is the democratic party moving a bit left and therefore bernie has a right to move hillary clinton to the left a little bit? >> absolutely. i think it's a difference in how you implement it. they both have the exact same goals. hillary clinton has been a fighter. she has been a fighter for universal hillary clinton since 1994. she has the scars to prove it. she's on board for expanding hillary clinton to every american. they want to do it in a different way, but the goals are the same. these are goals that donald trump does not share. >> he's not part of that circle of happiness. thank you. we continue to watch the returns that are coming in from puerto rico. as hillary clinton gets closer to that number of delegates she needs to clinch the nomination. 70 to 30 on the island of puerto rico. up next, donald trump's bad week continues. that's ahead. this has been a terrible week
welcome back to "hardball." we continue to watch the returns coming in for the democratic primary in puerto rico, but it's been a rough woke for donald trump. firs he picked a fight with the hispanic judge with a hispanic name presiding over the lawsuit with trump university because of the judge's mexican heritage. donald trump has been off stride and off message since he clinched the republican nomination. quote, trump can't seem to let go of any perceived slight or grievance. trump has allowed himself to become mired in these petty
battles rather than pivoting to a general message and election. you've been a student of trump. why has he seemed to have lost any kind of control, just reacting as if he is walking down the street? he wants to insult me. okay, i'll yell back at you. >> chris, it's what we've seen from trump though. trump would say, listen, i'm the same person i've been for the last 11 months and it has worked for many so far. the danger is he is no longer competing against these 16 republican primary challengers going after a gop electorate. he is competing likely against hillary clinton and trying to bring in some of these general election swing and independent voters that may not feel like that message resonates with them the way it did with primary voters. can he shift his message? he's trying to, chris. he rails against hillary
clinton. he says she's guilty as hell when it comes to the e-mail scandal. >> why is she a thief? >> but you get to these situations where he goes against susana martinez. >> what's he talking about? what did she steal? >> the campaign and donald trump believed this message that hillary clinton is a criminal because of the e-mail situation is going to be effective for them. they've been hammering it privately. he's been hammering it publicly. of course, the problem is that's not what we are talking about today. we are talking about now donald trump's comments about the judge overseeing the lawsuit for donald trump university and about the backlash now from top republican leaders, including, by the way, newt gingrich, who has been on the short list or speculated to be involved -- >> he's off that list. i think he's off that list. what does the word thief mean in this whole conversation about hillary clinton? i can't pivot to anywhere in the
argument with the claims against her. >> i think it goes against the idea that the campaign believes when you look at how she polls and when you look at her trustworthiness, that is a message that is effective when you look at who donald trump calls crooked hillary. >> i think he is just flying right now. thanks for that. stay with us tonight. up next, a rally on friday. trump tried to promote his support of african-americans by singling out one of his supporters and calling him, quote, my african-american. let's watch. >> we had a case where we had an african-american guy who was a fan of mine, great fan, great guy. in fact, i want to find out what's going on with him. look at my african-american over here. look at him. are you the greatest? >> well, the man trump was pointing to was gregory who is running for the united states congress in the northern most district in california.
he joins me now. thank you so much for joining us, gregory. give me a sense of how you reacted to the trump phenomenon and the language he used there? >> the whole thing, i don't know if i'm living in a dream or a nightmare. redding is a very community-oriented city. we have large events. we have fun in redding. and now this thing has just blown up to be -- it's taken on a life of its own. while that happened, i had never felt offended, especially when he added that part at the end. aren't you the greatest? i still take no offense to it. >> what do you make of the language though? my african-american, what do you think of that? just the language, it seems like possessive tense or possessive form in our grammar. "my." >> by not having friend or buddy
or worse my boy, it's hard -- it's ambiguous as it is. >> let me ask you about his use of the birther issue, saying that the president was basically an illegal alien who somehow faked his way into this country from kenya. this is what got him started a a national person of controversy. where are you on that? he obviously doesn't believe it. >> mr. trump is a magician when it comes to manipulating the press. whatever mr. trump does, he gets a lot of press out of it. either you love or hate donald trump. he just plays the media so well and people buy into it. >> well, is it true? do you believe the president of the united states somehow snuck into the country illegally?
do you believe that stuff? >> do i believe what? >> the trump argument that president obama is illegal, that he snuck into the country, assumed an identity of a natural born american? do you believe that trump argument or not? >> you know, i don't know what -- >> do you believe it? >> i don't know what mr. obama's status is. it's over. >> it is an issue. if you say he is here illegally or not a natural born citizen, is he or is he not entitled to be president of the united states? you're his trump supporter. that's the trump argument. where are you on it? >> first of all, i'm not a trump supporter. i went to the trump rally with an open mind to hear what he had to say for myself. >> so you're not a trump supporter? >> i wanted to see for myself. >> but you're not a trump supporter? >> no, i'm not a trump supporter. i went there with an open mind. whenever black people do something, we get so much
attention. i'm tired of people telling me what to do and what i should think. >> you're not a trump supporter is fine with me. that's news. i'm sorry. i got it wrong the way you were billed here. >> i don't know if i'm living in a dream or a nightmare. this story has taken on its own course and it is going every which way. >> who are you going to vote for in november? who are you going to vote for in november? >> oh, my -- i have no idea. hillary has a terrible track record on race. bernie nails the problem, but he blows the solution. that leaves me with mr. trump and a libertarian. i have to look at those people carefully. i haven't made up my mind. this is what we have after spending billions of dollars on a campaign. this is what we're left with. >> a lot of people agree with you, sir. thank you gregory, who is a candidate himself for u.s.
congress in the first district of california. my panel is back with us. listen, t e.j., i have to get your views. talk about false billing. this guy is being identified by donald trump as his guy. then we find out the guy hasn't decided if he is for him or not. that's how confusing the trump thing is this week. your thoughts? >> that phrase my african-american may a commentary on how little african-american support donald trump has. he can count those supporters on one hand. you look at the week trump had and i was struck not just by all the things you said about the judge and susana martinez. what was really amazing is there's nobody in the party coming out to support him. on the contrary, even people who now say they're endorsing him
like paul ryan, went out of their way to say he is wrong about the judge, and then trump keeps doubling down. this morning he said, well, i wouldn't really like -- he was asked a question what would you think of a muslim judge. he said he wouldn't be crazy about that either. i guess he's equal opportunity in his bigotry. it's just been an awful week. >> trump is smart and he's played politics crazy like a fox, but he has the republican nomination for president locked up. then he went into muslim. he's billed up constituency on the right. why would he have such a lousy weekend when he is smart politically? why a week like this? >> he's been pushing these buttons of racial and ethnic
animus and they worked within the republican electorate. he was a match made in heaven. now he's in a shotgun marriage in which the party may not be sustainable. he's just playing the same game over and over again, and it may wear thin. i just don't know. without any support, as e.j. mentioned, from the republican elite as he does this day in and day out and he just can't help himself whether he can keep sustaining himself as a possible presidential contender. he's doing what he does do's do the beginning. he's vowing not to pivot. that might not be good enough for the next few months, especially as hillary seems, at least for the time being, to
have found her footing in how to deride him. >> she sure has. >> and contextualize him. i think the media is shifting a little bit in not to normalize his hate and his lies. >> back in 1954, cleveland, which we're going to for the convention, won more games than any team in history in the american league. you know, they get into the world series and lost four straight. it is like trump's breaks all came through in the regular season. now he is going into the playoffs or the world series of the convention and it's like he's lost his game. has he lost his game or what? >> he's playing the same, chris, but sort of to abuse the metaphor it's a different playing field now. >> okay. >> i don't know if he's adjusted his game to the game that is now being played. now you're seeing he is a p
presumptive nominee, you're seeing more scrutiny of donald trump. you're seeing him being called out more publicly for the things he says. more fact checks. i think that is what you're seeing. questioned. i mean i sat in that press conference this week, the one that happened earlier in the week where he was going after the media. that's not necessarily new for him. it happens at literally every single rally. >> the media's going after him, too. casey, i didn't know you were in our hollywood squares. >> i'm not sure i was supposed to be. >> like everybody notices the rotation of the media. bernie's gotten a free ride i think from day one, of course. but trump had been doing okay making the jokes every night and that was the story his jokes. his lines were the news story. his crowds. then the press got a break once trump got his nomination locked up and everybody out there from the major press, "new york times," "wall street journal," "post," everybody's got enterprise reporting teams
digging up stuff on trump u., the whole works on this guy and i think he doesn't like it. because he's used to the business press where you can shove a guy out the door and say he doesn't get back in, she doesn't get back in and doesn't have to worry about the reporter again. he's before a firing squad right now and doesn't like the feeling athe all. >> i think it's more than just the business press -- >> i said it used to be the business press. >> i think even then it was really the new york tabloids but almost the entertainment press. it was a combination of business, plus that kind of coverage. so it really to a certain extent was all fun and games or it was about money -- >> or rallying sizes. >> and i think that what's gone away is the gee wiz factor, right? there was this kind of marvelling all the time about oh, my god can you believe this guy who was a reality tv star might actually be the republican nominee. and now the reality is, okay, we're there. he's there. it's starting to get to the point where everyone is used to that idea which means that suddenly we have to start talking about something else. and i think that's the shift.
i also think hillary clinton shifted it on him this week. one of the ways she did that was by being funny. one of the things that kept trump at the top of so many headlines and kept people engaged is that a lot of people find some of the lines he delivers, the way he does it funny. he's doing some of it for laughs. hillary clinton managed to get this crowd that was out with her here in california, laughing about some of these things trump had said, but then very effectively turned it serious and made people kind of understand, okay, this actually isn't funny, because there's a lot at stake. and she was very effective in that. and i think if that dynamic persists, this is going to be very different than the election we've seen so far. >> solid stuff. thank you. we continue to track the developments in the democratic race out there. and the fight we're now seeing between hillary clinton taking it to donald trump. and this is a special edition of "hardball" of course the place for politics. ♪ you're not gonna watch it! ♪
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welcome back to this special edition of "hardball." we continue to follow returns for the democratic primary in puerto rico where hillary clinton is looking to add to her delegate total. joy reed is here with us along with jamel smith. what was more important this week, hillary's good week, especially her speech, or trump's bad week? >> i think trump's bad week was more important. because i think it -- exposed a potentially fatal flaw with his campaign which is that he cannot respond with substance when attacked with actual substance. i think her speech yes its was full of a couple insults. a couple of snide jokes at his expense but what you have here
is 45 minutes of attacking the very, you know, justification for his presidency which is that he as donald trump has the experience, the life experience, the business experience, to then be a good chief executive quote/unquote for the united states. she attacked that fundamentally and i think she fundamentally disproved that case. >> it was his bad week? >> i agree. democrats have finally seen his soft underbelly. they figured out how to hit pym. they figured out how you can knock him off his game. >> is snide the way to get to him? >> you know you figured out that the weaknesses of the trump narrative are the things he's done to hurt the little guy. hurting the little guy that wanted to get the real estate course. >> trump u. >> yeah, that type of thing. the fact that he will always respond with his tic of bringing up racial stuff that he doesn't have to do. >> you mean that stuff about the judge and -- >> he won't listen to his advisers. >> there is a sinatra aspect to this guy. like anybody in any men's room in america can get this guy into a fight.
anyway, joy reed, jamil smith will be back with us in a minute. much more political coverage to come. we want to await the results from puerto rico. hillary clinton is getting close to that magic number she needs for the nomination. you're watching a special edition of "hardball" the place for politics.