tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC June 23, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
afdave stops working, but his aleve doesn't. because aleve can last 4 hours longer than tylenol 8 hour. what will you do with your aleve hours? the votes have been counted in the united kingdom and the united kingdom has voted to leave the european union. it will take years to complete an exit negotiation package. and nigel ferraj, the leader of the uk independence party, has a message for british prime minister david cameron. >> nigel, what's your message to the prime minister now? >> look outside of the window. just look at it, prime minister. the dawn is coming up on an independent united kingdom. something you did your absolute best, used all your powers to
prevent. you did it using every organ of state available to you. you've lost. you've lost the trust of the british people. go. go now. >> he should resign this morning? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> we're expecting to hear from david cameron as britain wakes up this morning, probably hear from him fairly soon. markets across asia plummeted in early trading in response to the brexit news and reuters is now reporting that the bank of england has been in contact with banks ahead of markets opening in london later this morning. for the latest, we turn again to nbc's kelly cobella in london. >> a once in a generation vote, a historic vote, now britain is waking up to this result if they went to sleep at all last night. this has been a nail biter through the the night. an incredibly close result showing some momentum for leave at the very beginning then the remain side sort of gaining some
ground in the middle of the night. but all along it has looked as though leave had a strong push, a stronger showing than a lot of people expected, showing up with many more votes and some very strong leave areas, in the northeastern part of england. but those votes ended up being much heavier weighted for the leave side than anyone expected. so this has really been an indication of a win for leave from the very beginning hours of vote counting. now that we're several hours into this, we have a projected result, not an official result, but a projected win for the leave side. the leave side about 1 million votes ahead at this point. we are starting to hear from leaders throughout the united kingdom, from other countries, within the united kingdom, northern ireland and scotland. these mumblings of potentially
wanting to break away from great britain. we heard first from the chairman of sinn fein in northern ireland, he said english voters are dragging northern ireland out of the eu, northern ireland voting 55% to 44% to stay in the ei yesterday. and also hearing from scotland. scotland voted in a referendum two years ago to remain in the uk. there is now talk of them breaking away once again. the first minister, the leader in scotland, nicholas sturgeon, saying the vote in scotland makes clear that the people of scotland see their future as part of the european union. so there will be inevitably talk once again, lawrence, of scotland potentially scheduling a referendum vote, potentially voting once again to break away from the united kingdom. and the reverberations going even farther than that. we're already hearing from
leaders within europe, leaders among -- for example, the dutch anti-immigration leader member of this very strong anti-immigration party, gert wilders, calling for a dutch referendum to leave the eu. just the very beginning of these political tremors. the fallout from this historic vote here in the uk to break away from the european union. we expect to hear from prime minister david cameron within the hour. he will be speaking in front of number 10 downing street, the prime minister's residence. we also expect to hear from the bank of england, the head of bank of england, mark carney in an effort we assume to settle the markets ahead of the london markets opening this morning. this was not the expected result. there was talk of this vote being extremely close, however, the late polls were indicating more of a movement toward
remain, not toward leave. so no doubt a lot of people will be waking up this morning in the uk to quite a surprise, to the surprise that in fact this vote to leave the eu has carried the day, lawrence. >> kelly, thank you very much for another update. we appreciate getting these from you from london. thank you, kelly. we're joined by david smith, washington correspondent for "the guardian." david, the last couple of weeks as kelly was just saying, people were getting the sensation the polls were delivering the impression that there was movement toward staying in the european union. what do you think was behind what became these misleading polls? and this last couple of weeks of ramping up into this vote? >> it was always difficult to call. and you're right, polls did seem to show a momentum for remain. but then there were a few days where the leave campaign picked up as well and that caused some
pan and i can some extra campaigning. and, you know, the last general election, the polls were quite misleading and got it wrong. so it's yet another example as we've seen in several elections now where questions will have to be asked about polling methods and just how reliable they are. but they did always make clear that it was going to be very close. >> and david, walk us through what you think happens politically in london starting within the hour, possibly. >> i think david cameron, the prime minister, probably resigns. at least one senior figure said overnight, he's got about 10 minutes if he loses this referendum. it's a gigantic blow to his leadership, his credibility. and there will also be some pressure on the opposition
leader, jeremy corbin. he is more likely to survive. but really, a political earthquake with all sorts of reverberations, including renewed calls perhaps in scott land for a referendum on independence. scotland voted solidly to remain within the eu, now they feel they're being dragged out of it. northern ireland as well. some calls, less strong. really, this is uncharted territory. and it's going to be a very febrile few days. >> david, when a british prime minister suffered a major setback like this, resignations are not uncommon. but what about the notion that perhaps this vote tonight is shock to the system enough and david cameron might choose not to resign on the grounds that, let's try to calm the waters for a bit? >> yeah, and already some
members of parliament in his own party have put together a letter saying that whatever the result, david cameron should carry on. however, this is such a fundment. iffal shift, such a game changer. it's something he personally staked his credibility on. this is his project, really. some would say a very ignominious end to his leadership. he made the promise of this referendum really as a bargaining chip with his own party going into the last election. turned out he won it more comfortably than expected but he went through this promise. some would say he's got a bit of a wild gambling streak, because we already had the referendum on scottish independence, at one point that also looked wobbly for him but he survived. he seemed to have luck on his side.
but not this time. and, you know, the idea that he is someone who vehemently supported remaining in eu, would now -- spent a couple of years going through all those negotiations how to get out of it i think a lot of people would find incredible and say that he has to hand over power to someone on that side of the argument. >> just a few minutes ago we heard from gisela stewart, a labor mp who led the leave the eu campaign. >> i think it is now incumbent on all of us to be very calm, remember that our responsibility is to the future of the united kingdom, and work together to start a process. because this is simply the beginning of a process of initiating leaving the european union. and in the long run, i think we will find that both europe and
the united kingdom will emerge stronger as a result of this. >> we're joined now by phone by christopher dickey, he is the foreign editor for "the daily beast." christopher dickey, as a paris resident these days, give us the reaction from france as you see it. >> well, i think people here are stunned. i didn't think -- i don't think that they believed that this was going to happen. they certainly speculated about the possibilities. but now that it's done and people are waking up to this news, i think everyone realizes it's going to be a true earthquake throughout the european continent. here in france, it's certainly going to help bolster the political fortunes of le pen, the far right party that is expected actually to win the first round of the presidential elections next year. even if it loses in the second round. so she has already called for a referendum many times. there's going to be a lot of talk about france holding a
referendum. the last time france held a referendum on the european union, on the constitution of the european union in 2005, it voted it down. so we have the possibility that france, which was a core founding member of the european union, could be in a position where it breaks away or at least has a strong impulse to break away. the netherlands is already talking about a new referendum there. and they could break away. you have all thiessen trif ges forces in the european union that are going to be unleashed and that is highly problematic on a continent where the european union and its predecessors were created to end conflict and end war and have been very successful in doing that for a long time. now you have this rush of xenophobe yeah anger, suspicion. it's extremely negative. >> christopher, talk about as you've just talked about the possible contagion here of the
british exit, feeling a bit contagious to other countries who might want to try something similar. we will be soon entering the negotiation period for the british exit. if there are other countries that are pondering exit votes like this, what does that mean to the way the european union will handle their side of the negotiations? >> well, i think it's going to be very, very problematic. i mean, earlier you were talking with other people and the word revenge came up. but that isn't really the issue here. the issue is if you are part of a common market, if you are part of a union and you go out, why do you expect that you can negotiate a deal that gives you all the advantages you had before but none of the responsibilities? i think that's going to be the position of brussels. and they're going to say, no, britain, we're not going to go for that. on the other hand, germany and france and other country dozen
have a lot of trade with britain. they're not going to want to lose that. so there's going to be a lot of back and forth. i don't think we're looking at revenge, we are going to look at very difficult and time-consuming negotiations over the next two years. this story going to go on and on and on. in a sense it will be like for instance the greek crisis where every few months or even a few weeks there's going to be a new showdown, a new crisis. >> we are looking at a live image of number 10 downing street where the prime minister, david cameron, is facing the greatest crisis that any recent british prime minister has faced. we're going to take a break here, be right back. i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. likewise! but, funny story. on top of that? my mom is my best friend. uh oh. yeah. oop! there's the rescue text from my roommate saying she needs me. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back:
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tonight to exit the european union. that result came as a surprise with polls indicating it would go the other way. dominic rush, u.s. business editor for "the guardian," with us in the new york studio. take us through the last couple of weeks and the major events that have occurred as voters became more and more focused on this question. >> well, it's been -- i know in the u.s. it's probably now people just waking up to what the brexit is. in the uk it's been a hard-fought battle. the last few weeks polls showing it was incredibly close and it was going to be -- you could go either way. and then really not an awful lot has changed, more people coming out, including the international monetary fund warning the uk could go into recession. but that wasn't -- to me, that was never going to swing it one way or the other. then of course we had the terrible murder of jo cox, british member of parliament and
pro-european or and she was shot by a man who was shouting "britain first." he's now been charged with her -- he's the alleged killer and has been charged with her killing. and a lot of people said after that terrible moment that if you were an undecided voter, i think there was an assumption that undecided voters were likely to want to remain and that -- >> they would be repulsed by that? >> yes, the whole of england was repulsed by that. >> yes. >> shocking. in the uk shooting deaths are thankfully quite rare occurrences. this is a terrible, terrible moment. and in fact, the campaign, both sides suspended campaigning. and a lot of people i think assumed that this was going to swing it back towards remain. and obviously tonight it proved not to be the case. >> did we see in the polls as they were tracking it a reaction in the polls? >> we actually did, yeah. we did. it didn't swing -- there wasn't
a huge swing. but it started drifting back towards remain. and it looked like that was going to do -- some momentum behind that. there were a lot of undecided voters. but undecided voters came out tonight -- it's not clearly, really, it's an incredibly close vote even now. fact of the matter is we have voted to exit. >> we're joined now from outside british parliament by nebraska's keir simmons. >> good morning from here where there is a sense of shock. the parliament behind me agreed that there should be a referendum and then the decision was effectively taken out of its hands. and the british poem haeople ha vone. the vote so far, 16,800,000 in favor of leaving the european. 15,600,000 against leaving the european union. what that tells you to begin with is how divided a country it is. it is divided not just in
families and among people with different jobs, different people on the economic scale, but also regionally. scotland voted to stay in the european union. london, we think, by a majority, voted to stay in the european union. that raises one of the questions that people are now asking themselves here. will britain manage to hold together? will scotland decide that it wants to not go along with this and have its own referendum to leave britain? already members of scottish independence parties are suggesting that that is what they would want. the implications, people are arguing over in the long-term. in the short-term we're already seeing questions like that being raised. we're seeing the british pound drop big 10%, the lowest since 1985. the euro dropping too as some countries, some politicians, some lawmakers in other european countries say they too want a referendum to see if their country can leave the european
union. so there is a question mark over the future of the european union itself. and that raises another question that many people have been asking and concerning themselves, worrying about. and that is whether the european countries will effectively try to punish britain, will not agree to any deal with the uk that is favorable to the uk, in order to ensure they send a message to other peoples in other european countries that it isn't wise to leave the european union, to protect the european union, if you like. the issue with all that that is why the stock markets are reacting so badly, is that if there is a battle, if you like, between the uk and other european countries over how trade should be done between those countries, well, clearly britain is a huge world economy. germany, france too. the implications for the world economy could be very serious.
on the other hand, those who have campaigned for britain to leave the european union here, jubilant many of them, they say that this is a vote for independence, that the european union was not democratic. and in the end, i guess, this is democracy. back to you. >> keir, is there any notion in parliament that tonight was the easy vote in the sense that it's just a simple question? should we remain in the european union? or should we leave the european union? but now a two-year negotiation, least, gets under way to negotiate what would be the final exit package of leaving the european union. and is there a notion in parliament that when that final exit package is ready to present to british voters that perhaps there might need to be another referendum that says, here is what the deal actually is to leave, do you approve this deal to leave?
>> let's back away from that for a second and ask another question which is, the prime minister of britain, david cameron, campaigned in favor of staying inside the european union. so how long will he last? most of the politicians, the lawmakers elected to the house of commons behind me here, were in favor of staying inside the european union. so if a bill comes to the houses of parliament for britain to leave the european union, will that be passed by those same lawmakers? will that mean then that the british government cannot continue and that there will need to be a general election in britain to elect a new government? it's quite possible that we'll see the prime minister resign in the coming days and weeks. he may, on the other hand, say that he needs to stay in position because he needs to help britain through these difficult times. so before we even ask about how the negotiation will go through the rest of europe, between britain and the rest of europe,
the question is what kind of government in britain will there be? who will be doing the negotiating? boris johnson, known -- the flamboyant politician, the man who was london mayor, he was one of the leaders of the leave campaign. many people speculating at some stage he will be the prime minister of britain. there's so many questions here. the biggest concern for the markets will be the number of questions, the amount of uncertainty, and of course they don't like that. as you mentioned, we know that the period after britain tells europe that it wants to leave and that has to be done in a statutory way, when that happens, there's then a two-year period where the negotiations can happen. given all of the complexity, it may take those two years. so we may have that uncertainty for years to come. >> keir simmons, thank you for joining us on what promises to be a very long day of reporting for you from london, really appreciate it.
susan oaks, i want to go to this question of the exit package. it is going to require parliament to pass new laws. because that's what a treaty, after all, is. that the domestic government, parliament, has entered into an agreement with another governing entity in this case a european organization. they're going to have to pass laws to exit. this is just the will of the people has expressed itself, now there's an extremely complex job to do and they might not be able to get that done. >> well, and i think you saw the reaction from one of the leave proponent mps saying, look, there's a long road ahead. she was sober in her analysis. i think that's part of the reason why, that this is a long road ahead. a lot of the eu laws actually are ironically based on uk laws. the uk is sort of the template for a lot of what the eu took over. so them having to pull out and pass new laws, it may just be sort of pulling out but
reaffirms what they've already done or the basis of their laws. it may not be quite as dramatic a shift in terms of what changes legally in the uk than some people are talking about. i do think when you talk about the markets, you talk about the economy, their stock market opens at 8:00 a.m., about an hour and a half from now. we heard mark carney, the head of the central bank of the uk, the equivalent of janet yellen is going to make a statement. they're trying to keep everything calm. part of the message is that, this is going to take a long time, don't freak out, you know. this is a long road to go and if the british pound continues to plummet, if interest rates increase because of the uncertainty in the uk, things are more expensive, those are all going to damage the euro economy and as they work through this process it's going to make that process all the more difficult. >> david cameron will be speaking within the hour. what would you expect to hear from him? >> well, i don't know. he's in the most difficult position any british prime
minister has been in in my memory. i imagine he's going to -- the people have spoken. it was an incredibly close vote, really. okay, the brits have voted to exit europe, but half of -- we're a country divided this morning. somehow he's got to tell the uk that has a divided country, somehow we can come together again. it's going to have to be a hell of a speech. to be honest, i've never seen him make a very good one. so i'm not expecting this one to be that good either. >> we'll take a break. our live coverage will continue.
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we're covering breaking news out of great britain where a historic vote has just gone down and it went rather differently than a lot of people apparently thought it would. it was called the brexit vote. remain meant that great britain, the uk, would stay in the european union. leave would mean that they leave. by a very narrow margin, leave actually won leaving probably more questions than answers. let's go to nbc correspondent kelly cobiella, covering this for us there, an unusual and surprising night. >> it was, melissa. it was a very tense night throughout with this vote count being very close, shifting just within a couple of percentage points one way or the other throughout the night. the leave camp taking the lead, then the remain camp. but just within the past couple of hours it became very clear that voters in the uk had had
their say, had voted very clearly to leave the european union. we're expecting as you see this picture on your screen, we're expecting to hear from prime minister david cameron really within the next half hour. we were hoping to hear from him before 7:00 local time. 7:00 a.m. in london. we also expect to hear the final announcement this vote count somewhere around the same time coming up in the next half hour. there are big questions this morning. lots of big questions. how this will play out, what will happen to the european workers now living and working in the uk, what will happen to the british people living and working in the european union, what will happen with trade deals, with tariffs, with so many other issues. those are all issues for another day. today really what we're going to see potentially is the political fallout, what will happen with
prime minister david cameron? will he step down? just within the past few minutes we've heard from a senior conservative leader who had campaigned to leave the european union saying that the prime minister should stay in place, not only to reassure the markets but also to reassure the country of great britain, to sort of provide some sort of stability as we move forward. lots of folks talked about the fact that nothing's going to change immediately, this is going to be a very long process of renegotiating the uk's position vis-a-vis europe. so the idea this morning, at least from one conservative lawmaker, is that david cameron should stay in place and lead that charge at least for the time being. we'll hear what he has to say hopefully in the next half hour. >> kelly, thank you very much. we are waiting for prime minister david cameron to come
out that front door that you see at 10 downing street in a short amount of time. right now on the phone is senior editor at "business insider" and msnbc contributor josh barrow. i think this is taking americans by surprise as well. so much so that i think a lot of people aren't really even aware of what this entails and what it really, really means. so what does this mean for americans? >> i think there are big economic and political effects. on the economic side we're seeing big movement in financial markets not just in the uk but all over the world. likely the u.s. stock markets will open 5% lower in the morning. the u.s. dollar has already strengthened a great deal against the pound. actually the move against the pound is more than twice as large as any other move on record since 1971. so it's huge. the pound is down 10%. we've strengthened against the euro. what that means for ordinary people, it's going to be a lot more expensive for u.s. firms to sell their product into europe. that will mean fewer exports for
the u.s. that's a negative effect on the u.s. economy, it's one of the reasons stock markets will open lower tomorrow. on the political side, i think there's a temptation to read into this a lot to do with donald trump and i think it's partly true. when you look at how this vote has broken down in the uk you're seeing big divides on age. older voters were much more likely to vote for brexit. lesser-educated voters were much more likely to vote for brexit. arguably, stronger predictor than party affiliation has been in europe. voters who vote on the left have been somewhat more likely to stay in the eu than vote others the right but not by that much. that i think is the reason not to read too much into this politically for the u.s. donald trump is not a referendum. you're seeing a lot of labor voters in the uk who voted to leave. you're not going to see a lot of democrats in the ups voting for donald trump. one writer for "national review" wrote, if donald trump were a
referendum, he might win. i think that's true but he's a candidate, the working class in the united states is much less white than the working class in the uk. that's going to be one factor that the solid working class vote for leave would not translate to a solid working class vote for donald trump in the united states. so i don't think that this augers for people to look at it and say that donald trump will outperform the polls and win in the election here. but i do think people should worry about the economic effects, people should worry globally about the trend toward nationalism, toward isolationalism, the possibility other countries within europe should make decisions like this in the future. >> what do you think it says about so many people voted to leave and the economic implicatio implications, basically they're saying globalization really doesn't work for us. it works for rich people but it makes the middle class disappear and it hurts the poor. what is the message they're sending about how all of this needs to change? >> the odd part of that is that unemployment right now in the united kingdom is 5%.
certainly the economy could be better in the uk, but it could also be a lot worse. the uk has done a lot better than continental europe. i think one thing that people in the uk might be seeing the next few months is that it is possible to do a lot worse than they were doing. they're going to wake up and see a stock market crash coupled with a huge crash in the value of their currency. that's going to show up immediately as higher fuel prices at gas stations in united kingdom when the pound falls. you need to pay more to import oil. you'll see people losing their jobs. and so i think there's going to be a demonstration that there were real economic costs with pulling away from globalization. i think there's likely to be buyers' remorse in the united kingdom. it's interesting we've seen the upsurge of populism in the world this year. not six years ago when the economy was much worse in europe than elsewhere around the world. things have gotten so much better, people have been able to engage in the luxury of radical economic, radical political claim. i think when they see the cost of that, it may become less
appealing. they're going to have to negotiate what this exit will look like, go back before voters probably to seek approval for that. if there's significant economic damage and when people see what the actual terms of the exit will be and what the economic costs of that will be, i'm not sure there's going to be as much enthusiasm for leaving as we saw in this vote today, which again is just a narrow victory for leave. you're going to see about 48% of britain voted to stay. >> if that does happen, what are the possibilities? >> i think -- i don't think this vote means that uk is necessarily going to leave the european union. it's legally nonbinding. i don't think the prime minister's going to say, we're going to ignore the vote, i don't think that's politically tenable. but there's going to have to be a negotiation process and it's going to be a process conducted in large part by people who were never enthusiastic about the idea of leaving the european union. i think it's likely they will come up with some terms that look quite unappealing. we've seen a record the last ten years of referendum votes,
france, netherlands, ireland, rejecting greater integration in the eu. they go back and say, are you sure you really meant that voters? ireland a year later passed another referendum approving the eu treaty that voters had rejected the prior year. so i don't think this is necessarily the last word from the eu. i think there's going to have to be some sort of restructuring. i think it is possible u. will end up out as a result of this, but this is sort of the start of the process rather than the end. >> josh barrow, thank you. we're going to take a quick break. 10 downing street, we're waiting for the prime minister to walk through that door and address his public this morning.ke ne. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one place where real and amazing live.
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welcome back. we have just heard that the prime minister will not speak to the public until he knows the exact vote count. we're hoping that will happen within the next hour and we will hear from him then. joining us now is david smith, washington correspondent for "the guardian." obviously this is a landmark vote. let's go through the issues. first of all, paint us a picture of who a leave voter is. what do they look like? >> i'm always hard to generalize, but it must be said that when you break down this vote there are clear patterns. people in central london and across a lot of scotland have voted to remain.
others perhaps in more rural areas or outer london have not. and there's already a lot of analysis and conversation within the uk about does this illustrate a class divide? is there an educational divide? a general tendency that someone said people with college or university degrees have more frequently voted remain. those without -- indeed the campaign to leave the eu actually played on this and stoked up a sense of us versus them. the haves versus the have-nots that the working class should take back britain. indeed some echoes perhaps some would argue with donald trump support in the u.s. but -- >> would you say that was a catalyst? >> certainly it's been a factor i think in a campaign that has
been give vicie divisive and s poisonous and quite ugly. a sense of separation, that it's users th us versus them, and these results will just reinforce the view london is a gilded cage, a place for the elites, they voted to remain and london is an island surrounded by lots of people who felt otherwise. >> well, there are some major hot-button issues. obviously they spoke to the people who voted this way. in a very specific way. so i would love to go through two or three of them. so let's start with integration. i want to start with a question that i think a lot of our american viewers probably aren't familiar with. would you explain what euro skepticism means? >> it's a long-standing view,
really, that the uk, great britain, is an island nation, doesn't really need europe and the eu. and ever since joining the european union, the skeptics have been there, particularly in the conservative party. it's been a very divisive issue for them. really, in some cases, it's people who are nostalgic about britain standing alone in the second world war. being an island, they should go their own way, perhaps have a better relationship with the united states than they do with the continent where people are speaking different languages. so sometimes it's manifest in ugly patriotism. what's interesting here is that david cameron appears to have tried to sort of fix this by apiecing euro skep tibs, giving
them the vote it's always wanted, and it's backfired spectacularly because the skep tibs have actually won. >> please do stay with us. but we want to go to something else. uked independence party leader nigel ferraj spoke to itv fuse reacting to this vote. >> i know a lot of remain voters did it reluctantly because they believed the scare mongering and the fear stories about economics. all of that is wrong. and i would say to all of them, listen, guys and girls, we're living in the 21st century economy. we have just broken free from a backward, failing political union. the world is now our oyster. >> joining us from outside british parliament is nbc's dear sim dear simmons. a personal question. what does this mean for you?
. >> i think every british person is waking up this morning taking a breath. i'd be surprised if anyone who voted either way doesn't have their heart rate going a little faster. there will be people who think it's exciting, there will be people who think it's terrifying. the vote was so evenly split. 16 million, 17 million on either side. so this was not a clear mandate to leave. and it wouldn't have been a clear mandate to remain, if that's how the vote had swung. it is divided geographically. scotland voted to stay in the european union. large parts of england voted not to stay in the european union. london, the capital, we think voted largely to stay in the european union. so what does that tell you? it tells you that the british people are divided. behind me, the lawmakers who were expected to the house of parliament, most of them
campaigned in favor of staying inside the european union. so the question now is how does britain hold itself together and negotiate with europe? and that's a question for the short-term. it's a question that raises concerns about the kind of volatility there may be, the uncertainty there may be. that's why i think you're seeing world markets reacting negatively and you're seeing the british pound drop by 10% back to rates not seen since 1985. >> you say people are waking up this morning, i chuckled because i have a feeling not a lot of people slept at all there last night. >> yeah. >> keir, i hear noise behind you, were those people who probably have been up all night? are these people who are waking and up making their way to work? >> yeah, behind me actually, this is an area where the british media and the world media are gathered to take in these results. mind me there's a gathering just preparing for one of the leaders
of the leave european union vote to come and speak. he was the guy you saw, you played a clip of him talking on british network television a little while ago. nigel ferrage. he is saying this morning the opportunities for us as a global trader are fantastic. compare that with the german foreign minister who is describing this as a sad day for europe, a sad day for britain. to give you a sense of the implications, the international implications if you like, even the australian prime minister is coming out and trying to reassure his people that this will not have a major effect on their living standards because just back to that point i was making. whatever you think about whether this will be good for britain in the long-term, how europe will emerge from this, everybody agrees that there will be a period of uncertainty.
the negotiation time that is allowed, once britain tells the european union it wants to leave, is two years. and it's quite possible that that whole two years will be needed, and maybe more, for new trade deals to be negotiated. so there will be a long period of uncertainty and that's why you can see the financial marks very, very worried. the question i guess now is how does europe react in the next 24 hours? the leader of the european parliament saying that europe must have a level head. so will europe come in and try and negotiate? or will it try to punish british in order to persuade other european countries not to have a referendum and vote in the same way? >> thank you very much. joining us is nicholas canamides, economics professor at ny uchlu sterns school of business. thank you for joining us. what do you think this means economically?
>> well, it's a disaster and the financial market showed it. many of us economists were saying that before, that if brexit happened, it would be a bad day for the financial markets right away. a bad next five years for britain, i'm afraid. i'm also afraid that britain chose quite the wrong way to go. britain went from having an empire 100 years ago to being two small islands and not even want to participate in europe. europe is going to be integrated, europe is going to be very strong. and britain is going quite the wrong way. >> what do you think it means for americans? >> well, the united states has an interest in a strong europe. and britain in the strong europe would be much better for the united states. besides the problems of the uk, the recession that will show up,
the various renegotiations which will take a number of years, there is also a problem in the european union. britain is the second-biggest economy in the european union. only second to germany. and now, with britain outside the european union, the dominance of europe by germany is going to become even more strong. and that's a problem. i don't think the other nations in europe like france, italy, the smaller nations, are able to create a coalition which will be strong enough to be against germany. >> we will have to wrap it up there. thank you very much for being with us. we're going to take a quick break. (man) oh, looks like we missed
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uk. "we're out" following the historic brexit vote overnight that actually went towards leave, surprising a whole lot of people, including our two guests, dominic rush and susan ox. i want to get your reaction. >> i'm horrified, to be honest. i'm really -- i was really quite shocked. i thought twag gone to be close. i thought it was going to be close but especially after the horrific murder of the british mp, jo cox, who was a supporter of the river rep dumb, i thought people would kind of lean towards staying in. it was always going to be a close vote but i'm really quite shocked. for me, it just seems that the uk, england, has decided it wants to go it aown in a world where we increasingly need to be together. >> from an economic standpoint, are you surprised? >> i'm very surprised. and i think, unfortunately, this was a much more emotional vote than it was an economic, rational vote. i think it's hard for economics
to sway people to strong, passionate fervor in most cases. i think understanding the true implications of pulling out, if it's not entirely clear and i think it was hard for david cameron and for the remain party to really art deligarticulate wt meant to stay as opposed to pull out. immigration was a huge trigger point around this. it was partly, they're taking our jobs. it was partly, they're using up social services, we're paying a lot of money for people coming into the country. when you have areas that have been more depressed economically and they feel like the eu, the whole european union, hasn't been working out for us the way that you promised, all these economists, they keep telling us the economy looks good, we're doing better than the rest of the eu, unemployment at 5%, yet i don't feel it. that personal disconnection i think was a big part of why the vote went this way. >> it's interesting. i actually just want to ask you this question. we're talking about this deep divide which i think if you don't live there surprised a lot of people, that that is how people in the uk actually feel.
and this is something that has probably divided families, created d ed distrust of govern. in the average house in uk you probably have a person who voted this way and a person who voted that way. >> i think there's a lot of that. in my own family my mom and dad voted remain. some of my dad's big irish catholic family, some of my dad's uncles voted to leave. because they think that the eu is corrupt. in the uk a lot of people speak about brussels in the same way a lot of people talk about washington. they see it as somewhere that is wasting their time, wasting their money, imposing legislation on them that they don't believe in, and that this is a great way -- there's opportunity that's been given to them to thumb their noses at them and they've done that. >> lots more questions, though, remain as this becomes a reality. it's very interesting. we are covering breaking news. we are watching london right now because the prime minister is
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