tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC November 15, 2016 11:30pm-12:01am PST
crude form of nationalism taking hold around the world. back home the new york times reports that rudy giuliani is the leading contender to be the next secretary of state. according to times he plans to be lobbying aggressively for the position and mr. trump seems inclined to reward his loyalty. another is john bolton. the basic question is what will president trump's foreign policy be? he made opposition to the stupid wars. he criticized president bush and vice president chaney. let's watch. >> chaney is the one that started the war in iraq. talk about extremist, he started the war in iraq which never should have been started. had i been president we wouldn't
have been in this horrible horrible mistake. unlike my opponent my foreign policy will emphasize diplomacy, not destruction. some times it seemed like there wasn't a country in the middle east that hillary clinton didn't want to invade, intervene in or topple. our new foreign policy will put america first. now she wants to start a shooting war in conflict with a nuclear armed russia that could very well lead to world war 3. >> he laid out an aggressive policy of going after isis. let's watch. >> i would knock the hell out of the areas. >> i would bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. i would blow up every single inch.
there would be nothing left. we will declare against isis. we have to wipe out isis. >> with troops on the ground? >> we are going to have very few troops on the ground. we will have unbelievable intelligence. right now you have isis cutting off christians heads and others. they are drowning them, cutting off their heads. we have to take thoil. >> how are we going to take the oil? >> you would leave a certain group behind and take various sections where they have the oil. >> so it will be an america first policy or four years of bombing. it will be a telling fact. i have to admit, i'm not a passivist but he was tickling my zones when he was saying hillary clinton was trigger happiment we -- happy.
yet he wants to kick the what out of isis? does it mean he wants to keep assad? where do you put him on that spectrum? >> i think it's a mistake. he works off of emotion. he works off of impulse. he wants to make america great. they are completely inconsistent. exactly right. he doesn't want to get in wars and he wants to do worse, whatever that is. he wants to buddy up to putin. he hasn't really ever dpsh you're a guest here you tend to be somebody. but he opposes the iran deal. he is not confident to try to avoid war.
what is it? >> it is a total contradiction. i don't think it's he's without any thought. what he looks at is a bad deal. in other words he is the art of the deal guy. that's why president obama said yesterday in his press conference so far it is working. they are saying it's working. don't mess with it donald. >> he has never been taken. >> i am voting for -- he said he wanted to bomb iran totally for
>> he just likes loyalty. she no walk in the park either. his temperament is probably worse. >> it has become a -- rudy has no idea what he is doing. we think he is mr. national security because he was mayor of new york. he hasn't done this job. >> yeah, his international business has done some stuff. he would know something about the global security situation. if you talk to diplomats here they express a few concerns. number one, if they are worried their security are worried their that donald trump will be so close to putin that anything donald trump learns putin is going to learn. they worried about the security leaks.
number two, trump is pursuing a foreign policy that doesn't have anything to do with the official countries they are supposed to be dealing with. he has direct links in france. >> all of the nationalists? >> yes. he is returning a foreign policy. typical donald trump outside of the box. >> and putin was on the phone and the two talked about having a strong and enduring relationship. today somebody didn't like that. someone warned him not to work with putin. -- murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatens america's allies.
at the very least the price of another reset with putin would be assad's butchery of the syrian people. clearly one thing we know about rudy giuliani, he says the only way we are going to deal with the situation in syria is to cut a deal with russia, use their influence with assad to some how find our way to creating a state there. my belief is you'll have to do something like biden proposed in iraq, some kind of sectarian break up of the country. you have to do something like that and give them some little canton where they can free the rest of the country. maybe that's too complicated but maybe the russians can make that happen and end the blood bath. it can be done. >> this is absurd. that is what president obama has been trying to do.
it doesn't work. these people do not have the interest. >> maybe there has to be a more so fist kated -- sophisticated approach. oddly enough the sitting president goes over to europe to reassure that the incoming president is okay with nato. yeah, nato but what about the eastern flank? putin knows something about the art of the deal too. >> what does he want? >> he wants freedom to do what he wants in the baltic and eastern europe. when it comes to syria let's watch.
>> if putin wants to go knock the hell out of isis i am all for it 100% and i can't understand why anybody would against it. deals are people and i'm looking at assad and saying maybe he is better than the kind of people that we are supposed to be backing. now it's such a mess over there with everybody involved and the air space is very limited, you know, it's not that big of an area. the air space is very limited. we have world war iii over syria? >> i do think she had a tricky policy to protect certain areas from syria from bombing no fly zone. if you have russian planes involved i'm with that. let's talk about the two elections. i want to know who you're for. i read you in the washington post. you're a hawk. fair enough. do you want bolton to be secretary of state? >> yes.
>> why bolton? >> because number one he has at least been in a national position. number two, he is a much more personally stable individual. >> does that look stable what you're looking at right now? >> listen, we are talking about -- >> i'm sorry. i was thinking something a little odd about the guy. >> he has his own foreign slushes and messes. he barely made it through a few months of 2008 campaign. he was rips rudy over his foreign collection to chavez, the whole slew of them. this is not draining the swamp. this is expanding the swamp. >> i'm not sure city oil is going to get him in trouble though. >> i don't think so. the point i would take from this it seems nothing donald trump is going to do as he puts together
his cabinet and team is going to resemble anything we have seen by way of the traditional markers of people who hold high positions. why should we be surprised? nothing he did in the campaign was by the book and nothing he is going to do in this round will be by the book either. >> we should think of the bar scene in star wars. >> i mean they had a thing going there. they seem to be joining themselves. >> and hopefully someone is still on the list. it would be profound and brilliant. thank you. he wouldn't be a hawk. he might be good for us. hillary clinton's lead in the popular vote is growing. it is fuelling some to call for an end. even donald trump is tweeting about it. could it ever change? this is "hardball," the place for politics. the first rule of being a viking.
>> welcome back. hillary clinton leads by 800,000 votes. protests have been out there taking place across the country. they are all over the place voicing their decent over the results of the election. donald trump himself even has reservations. here is what trump told leslie on sunday night on "60 minutes". >> now, for months you were
running around saying that the system is rigged, the whole thing was rigged. you tweeted that the electoral college is a disaster for democracy. do you still think it is rigged? >> i won with the electoral college. >> exactly. do you think it is rigged? >> yes. some of the election locations are, some of the system is. >> even though you won you're saying that? >> i'm not going to change my mind just because i won. i would rather see it where you went with simple votes. you get 100 million and somebody else gets 90 million votes and you win. that's reason for doing this because it brings all of the states into play. there is something very good about this. this is a different system but i do respect the system. >> four years ago when it appeared romney might lose to president obama trump tweeted he lost the popular vote by a lot
and won the election. we should have a revolution in this country. sounds like bernie sanders, revolution. that tweet was -- deleted. he said we are not a democracy. today trump was back on twitter responding to the critics. he tweeted if the election were based on total popular vote i would have campaigned in new york, florida and california and won bigger and more easily. now he says it is actually brings all states including the smaller one into play. california senator boxer released a statement saying she will introduce legislation to eliminate it calling it an undemocratic system. every american should be gar -- guaranteed their vote counts.
gary is the director of university of louisville. thank you for taking the unpopular position tonight. somebody has to be in the barrel basically and you're in there. >> i'm here for you. >> make the case why it's good we have the electoral rather than popular vote. >> we are not fighting in courthouses across this country recounting in precincts. we had a diverse population that got to weigh in, not just major cities but the rural people in western pennsylvania and ohio. it gives us a broad base democratic. it gives us presidents and ultimately good government because everyone across the fruited plane had a chance to participate and will feel like they participated in this election.
>> here are people that won't be happy. if you look at california clinton won by 2.9 million votes. those votedon't count real lichlt you look at the power of those big states almost made irrelevant. clinton won them but didn't get the benefit of all of those numbers. >> i think that's right. >> i'm right about what states might be bad. we have the electoral college. there's not much we can do about it. >> you're right. it will be very difficult to change that. you need a constitutional amendment. >> little states will never go along with it. there's also like -- you can debunk that statement too. people have said, you know what? you needed it because big states were going to win over little states. if you look at the history most presidents have come from big states. there have only been three presidents that have come from big states.
there is an idea, one person, one vote. that does not happen. >> we are the united states. we are 50 states. they all vote for president. are we a country or collection or states? if we are one people, you know, if we are one people why not just have a vote? >> look, we are a diverse country of people and sames. one man one vote is how it operates. it just operates by states. if you abolish the electoral what matters, people will not matter. if you look at hillary you said was up 800,000 votes. if you just look in l.a. she won 1.1 million votes just in l.a. which means she lost the rest of the country but won one city out west. we don't want a country where
i discovered donald trump ability to cherry pick. he likes the idea of keeping health insurance available to cover preexisting medical conditions or the young adult children still depending on their parents insurance. he created a vendetta. trump assumed a similar position on foreign policy. he said he opposed the iraq war but buys into the people who
sold us on the iraq war. why do we think he won't take us into another war if he made support of the iraq war itself. how could he even think of naming bolton if he disagrees with the war that bolton sported so passionately. is he really opposed to the iraq war if he supports the people and thinking that it lead our way into the disaster. the reckoning is at hand. to save the popular parts of obamacare he will need to save a good bit of obamacare. for donald trump is reckoning is at hand. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for joining us. join us tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. eastern. see you then.
tonight on "all in" -- >> we got these hats at conference today. >> hats on the hill and a trump transition in turmoil. >> we're filled with questions in the trump transition, and that's just very logical. >> tonight, new questions about rudy's business ties, the, quote, stalinesque purge of chris christie allies, why ben carson suddenly bailed and the mounting conflicts for trump's children. plus rachel maddow on the global
implications of a president-elect not having his act together. senator sherrod brown on the democrats first real fight to remove steve bannon. and the facebook effect. mark zuckerberg denies fake news on facebook affected the election. tonight my interview with a former employee who disagrees. when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. during the presidential campaign, paul ryan described comments by donald trump as racist and decried trump's muslim ban as un-american. he nominated him and ryan put his misgivings behind. >> i talk with donald trump virtually every single day. i spoke with mike pence this morning. we're on the same page, we're working hand in glove and we're going to make sure this is a very successful administration.