tv MSNBC Live With Thomas Roberts MSNBC December 2, 2016 11:00am-12:01pm PST
carolina. the faith of an officer charged in the murder death of, in the death of walter scott. could we have a hung jury in this case? we are going to go right there. we do start out with louisiana with this breaking news development where we are waiting to hear from the jefferson sheriff's office about charges of the shooting death of a former nfl running back joe mcnight. this unfolded near new orleans. witnesses say 28-year-old mcknight was standing outside his car when he was shot. this shooter stayed on the scene and turned in his gun and admitting killing and shooting mcknight. he was released over night without being charged. here is our legalnalyst, arari arari ari melber. what are we expecting to hear?
>> reporter: we know that yesterday as you mentioned he stayed on the scene and handed over his weapon and questioned for hours. over night he was released and no charges, at least not yet. we expect now as they told us earlier this morning, they consulted with the district attorney's office, they'll hold a press conference to talk about what decision they came to. that's what we are waiting for and that's what will happen the next minute or so. >> what's been the tone of this community of him not being charged or any type of criminal acts in mcnight's death. >> outside of his building, we had people coming up to our life shot location to talk about this and they wanted answers. the naacp held al conference and they said something similar. they want to know answers and why he was released. those answers we are hoping to
get coming up in a few minutes. jacob, standby for me. ari, let me talk to you about the legal responsibility here of all of this in louisiana in which you know has its different gun laws and this happens in broad daylight and certain witnesses to be interviewed. there is a question of how this can happen and the person not charged in any form and released. >> i understand that people look at that and say well, you have a killing in broad daylight and you have the person in custody as he was, it seems like enough. with that said, if it takes authorities a day or two to come through with charges and they want to proceed in that way to have the best possible outcome, that in itself is significant. we are looking at the preparations to hear from the sheriff's office, i can tell you when our legal unit spoke with someone at the sheriff's office earlier today, collone
collonel fortunado, he made it clear there were charges. there will be charges related to killing. absence of finalizing evidence of those charges, you don't have the legal requirements yet to hold the person. that's a future of our justice system absent. >> when we talk about the potential for charges. talk about the range of where they could come in from say nothing to potential murder. >> well, people often forget this. every state does this rather differently and louisiana, they basically have two types of murder charges and first degree triggered by certain unassailable category. this would look like if it were a murder charges, it will be a second degree murder charge, it does not have those other requirements or depending on what they found out. we know the ending in our reporting earlier. we know the ending was killing in a death. we don't know what led up to it.
it is possible that it will be -- there maybe a man slaughter if this was seen somehow more of a heat of passion random or accidental. >> lets go back to jacob rascon waiting for those with the jefferson sheriff's office, jefferson county there in louisiana. jacob, talk about the facts as we know them. what's been reported about this inner action between mcnight kn and gasser. >> i think we lost jacob. we'll work on getting him back in. there is been different details from witnesses ari, about how this all went down. there are certain ones that would put gasser in a criminal light or potentially puts mcknight in a different light
than what we have been able to see so far. they're not there yet. >> right, they obviously have a desire here to set the records straight at this hour which means either they reach a conclusion or charges they want to explain or support for the reasons you were asking about earlier. people say well, if it was clearly of a killing or a deceased individual or another person on the gun, it does not seem that much less to know. either way, they want to give an update. these investigations take time to get all the evidence. there were reports from some by standers alleging that gassers w gassers -- was the alleger that he shot his gun and stood over the night. that's what you get for challenging or messing with me. ari, standby for me, we'll keep a close eye on the jefferson
county from the briefing of the sheriff officials. we are following this breaking news out of south carolina of the murder charges against michael slager, the jury is going back to the courtroom talking to the judge saying they're not able to reach consensus, the jury asking for the judge for the legal difference between fear and passion. he was fired from the department after he fatally shot walter scott. slager testified and pleaded not guilty. if convicted, he could be sentenced to life in prison. we are on this verdict watch and as i said the jury has come back in talking about not being able to come to a consensus. or ari melber is here on the sate. gabe, let me start with you, how did the judge respond from those two things. >> reporter: hi there, thomas, you mentioned a lot of activities here the last few minutes. the jury is coming back in the
courtroom now sending two notes ready in court. the first thing they were asking for, the by stander of the shot that went viral that got this case into the national spotlight. they wanted to hear the statement again. the judge coming back and saying that it is a different court reporter that cannot generate a transcript right away, they had to go back to the courtroom to hear the audio. that's what's happening now. the jury said at 1:12 p.m., they sent a note saying they could not reach a consensus. that's what we are looking and hoping to learn more about now and what happens in these types of cases that the judge may tell them to go back to deliberations and not let them reaching consensus. however, they still cannot reach consensus going back to the operation is. that raises a possibility of a hung jury here. that's what many observers are
considering a strong possibility at this point. thomas, i should point out, the jury had several options in this case, they could come back with a guilty verdict on the murder charge against michael slager, they can find him guilty of voluntary manslaughter or this could be acquittal. the fourth option is hung jury at this point. this is a controversial case obviously, its got a lot of national attention. the city of north charleston has already approved a $6.5 million civil set a ltlement. next year, there is a federal civil rights trial that michael slager will face. no matter what happens in this case, the story definitely is not over. right now, we are monitoring the courtroom to see if the jury might not be able to reach a consensus and that would be a hung jury, the jury is made up of 11 whites and one black man. they'll need to find any of those guilty or voluntary
manslaughter or not guilty. it has to be new hampshiunamino a missed trial. >> we are reporting this the first time, this jury is saying no consensus that they cannot reach a consensus on a guilty verdict of any kind or acquit l acquittal. that means there are people in that jury room delivering this for several days, they are telling the judge that's not nothing. that's them telling a judge that we cannot agree one way or another. that's not the end of the line, we are not reporting anything yet like a hung jury because the judge has options in instructing them to keep on deliberating. here is walter scott being shot in the back and there he is, we know the deceased as michael slager puts the handcuffs on
him. that video many people felt showed something clearly and according to the men and women in that jury room that video and other evidence they reviewed in this lengthy trial is not leading them to a consensus, this is a significant development. >> what do you think about the fact that the jury, wanted to come back and asking the judge of the difference between fear and passion and how much benefited to slager of the fact that he testified on his own defense. >> there are two ways you can interpret that. number one, that was an area of the law that confused it and how passionate and fearful it was for officer slager in the moment that he shot. number two, no, they are focusing on charges or potential crimes related in those items. hey, i did not get it and i need to learn more about it. just as you are confused, the other option is they were focusing on that. if it was option b, passion and fear, that would make you think
more likely they're looking at the lesser charges and man slaughter charge. that gives some of the benefit of the doubt to him and the notion of him doing this basically out of a sudden burst of emotions rather than malice, right? the higher murder charges would require malice and they did not ask about malice, either they were interested in that or clear on it that it was not something they needed an update on. what we are seeing here and in this trial, this moment, the breaking news is the jury telling the judge they have not reached a con wilhelmssensus an judge has to decide what to do about that. does he urge them to work on this or may this be a hung jury? >> thank you very much, we'll go back to you and i ask you both to stick around, we'll put in a quick break, we do continue to follow up these big stories which one on the left of your screen is the developments inside the courtroom and the jury coming back and potentially with any type of questions and consensuses about the future and the verdict of former officer
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make you smile. >> reacting to the death of joe mcknight. jefferson perish, we are waiting for officials there of the charges of this former nfl running back, it unfolded as this apparent case of road rage in broad daylight near new orleans yesterday. the 28-year-old joe mcknight was standing outside his car when it was shot. the 54-year-old shooter, ronald gasser admitted killing killing mcknight. >> two different stories we are following here.
have you gotten anymore definitive time line when it begins? >> you know we had been told of a two-minute warning, we have not given that warning yet. we are told that it is starting at the top of the hour. we were told 45 minutes ago that the sheriff consulted with the district attorney that they were talking about this specifically. which charges if any will be brought to ronald gasser, we have talked to a member of the gasser's family. there is a statement here that i want to read, it is very brief. we send our thoughts and prayer to the mcknight family, we pray that all is patience and wait for the facts to come out. the local chapter where naacp, where they are demanding answers and frustrated and worried and afraid of different things why this person ronald gasser was
let go when witnesses put him there at the scene standing over mcknight's body. we are looking forward to hear additional info. of what happened that night and what led up to this shooting is murky. he waited for police and turned over his weapon and all of that. what we don't know and what was the initial road rage incident. what was the argument. aggresso we'll be looking at this. >> i want to take everybody back inside the jury and the courtroom. the jury of michael slager, the officer who was charged in a police involved shooting death. this jury is unable to reach a consensus, we are listening to the judge now. >> at some future time i will
try this case with some other jury sitting where you now sit. the same participants will come and the same lawyers will likely ask basically the same questions and get basically the same answers and we'll go through this whole process again. you were selected in the same manner and from the same source any future jury will be. there is no reason for me to suppose that the case will ever be submitted to twelve more intellige intelligent, conscientious, or competent jurors than you. more clear evidence will be
produced on one side or the other. therefore, ai ask that you retun to your deliberations if you will. >> all right, lets go over this, ex pl explain that, ari. >> the judge made an argument that this jury should try to come to a decision. this would be if we have hung jury, we told him we'll see the same trial again. there is no reason to suppose that another group of jurors elected from the community here of the exact evidence would be in any easier position, this is something that you see time to time and in difficult cases. it is known as a charge. all it really means is this is a tough call, the jury in this
shooting case despite the video we are shooting on the screen and the evidence that some people felt was clear that this particular jury was heard far more details than anybody in the world or anyone read about the case or seen quotes on the news, they have been sitting in eight or nine or ten hours a day and heard both sides, they are saying no consensus and what would be a hung jury if the judge accepts it. what he urges them to do is spend more time thinking of the evidence and talking to each other and seeing if they can reach unanimous decision on one of the charges for guilty or unanimous on acquittal that he's not guilty. that kind of detail, we don't know. all we can report at this hour is a striking development in that case that the jury is so deadlock and the judge is urging them to break the deadlock. we don't know what's going on in their mind. when you see a case like this
when the jury is deadlocked, you don't see them breaking the impact. there is not necessarily anything you can do in a peaceful, civil manner where someone is not changing their mind where nine or ten or eleven jurors are not changing their mind. the judge is ordering them to deliberate further >> lets go to our nbc's gabe gutierr gutierrez outside the courthouse. explain to the deliberation process, what it has been to get to this point. >> reporter: hi there, thomas, ari described the charge very well. we reported a few minutes ago that they asked here of the transcript of santana t , the b stander that shot the cell phone video that we have been playing. they came back and it turns out
that they told the judge, actually on second thought that they want to make a difference. if we were to see or hear that audio again or read that transcript, it would not make a difference, it would be deadlock. that's what prompted the judge right now. they have had about 14, more than 12 hours, about 12 to 14 hours since deliberations so far. this case went to the jury late on wednesday and deliberated for an hour and then went all day yesterday and they had that question late yesterday that really caused a lot of speculations here on the ground and spoke to the heart of this case. they asked for the legal difference between fear and passion. now, in order for them to come back with a voluntary manslaughter verdict, that would have been that michael slager fired on walter scott in the heat of the moment and the heat of passion and that the jury
could have found him guilty and involuntarily man slaughter on that. an update on the death of joe mcknight and ronald gasser being released without being charged in the death of the former nfl running back. >> councilman mark here who's with me today as well as our coroner for jefferson perish, we had an incident that occurred yesterday of a road rage that started -- it began at the greater new orleans bridge and went down and continued on
berman highway and came to stop at the corner. we have been able to validate that of independent witnesses as well as mr. gasser's statement relative to this particular situation. we also know that mr. gasser were at that particular location admitted to shooting joe mcknight jr. at that location. so as a result of that, we have begun this investigation. some let me tell you where we are and why. first, out of fairness and equity to the life that joe mcknight jr. lived, as well as
the life that ronald gasser lives, this investigation is not going to be moved or influenced, coursed, changed in any way by any external force, comments or otherwise. i cannot control what's on the social networks and if we want to continue to be silly, that's fine. what i can control is when people in this community decide to demonstrate that they do so peacefully. and they do so in accordance of the code of jefferson parish as well as the state of louisiana.
if those laws are not abided by, they'll be arrested and put in jail. because if we are truly worried about fairness and equities to all the parties involved, they'll allow this investigative process to proceed in the deliberate and incredible manner that it should and will be conducted in that fashion like all other investigations and not unlike the reputation that this organization has had for dozens upon dozens of years. so let me make that perfectly clear from the get-go. let me also state that we are not going to reveal at this point in time, any of the details of this investigation.
there are still witnesses that we are looking for and i do not want to be accused of attempting this investigation or suggesting a story about this investigation to witnesses that we have not located and talked to. simply put, that is the appropriate thing to do. the speed and the time frame in which we get to a conclusion is of no moment. everyone should pause and reflect and recognize that a rush to judgment does not equal anything. in fact, in the criminal justice process, if you do not dot every
"i" and cross every "t," it has dwyer and consequences -- so out of abundance of caution, and out of respect to both the deceased, mr. joe mcknight, as well as the individual who shot and killed mr. mcknight, mr. ronald gasser, that's the way it has to be. it can be no other way. in fact, to even to go over this point even more, we just finished the autopsy roughly two hours ago, which is a very
important portion of the investigation and it would be completely premature in this kind of case in order to reveal anything prior to that and in fact they are still reviewing their results. i cannot help but comment when listening to the radio and the comments on social network. any time a statement starts with i feel, you are often running oon a dangerous trail. any story other than the story that you hear from me, the coroner, doctor jerry, the district attorney should not be
believed. sour sto our story is going to start with the evidence suggests and reveals or the evidence is. so again i would ask the community to pause and reflect that when you start with "i feel," that's a slippery slope. my feelings and mark's feelings are of no moment. they don't matter. it is what the evidence suggests with the evidence reveals and what the evidence is. simply put. so i will strongly suggest that you stop believing what you are reading. let me put just a couple of
things that i have been made aware of to rest. mr. gasser did not stand over mr. mcknight and fires shots into him. the three casings were located within the vehicle. mr. gasser was in his vehicle when he fired three shots. so that did not happen. that witness account and we talked to that witness if it is the same one that i am talking about is factually incorrec incorrect -- it did not happen. there is no video that we have been able to recover at this point in time so that does not exist either. we have no witness account of an
apology being made by mr. mcnigm mcknight to mr. gasser, that did not occur. i am sure by the time we finish this press conference that there will now be new iterations of this story, now that i have spelled those three ingredients of the story. i caution you to only believe the story that comes from me, our coroner or the district attorney. none of that is true. none of that is true. i have been accused of dropping the ball of doing this and doing that because we released mr.
gasser last evening after we took his statement. as i said before, external influences with not motivate this office one way or the other as to how we are going to conduct the investigation strategically, and because there is still witnesses that are out there, i cannot go into the details as to why that is at this point in time. i can wait for that moment so that i can set the record straight. we'll leave no stone unturned. we had as many 30 to 40 officers working this investigation through the night.
we'll continue to work this and that's my commitment to the community. in the end, the community's interest is larger than any individuals interests. we have to keep that in mind, the fairness and equity, interest of the community out weighs the interest of any individual. now, to the protesters out front, who have asked for us to block the west bank express way. that's not going to happen. in 20 minutes, you will be given a command to not obstruct the main travel portion of the west baggage express way. if you continue to do so, you will go to jail.
you have every right to peacefully demonstrate on the property between the fence and the highway but you will not be allowed to obstruct the safety and security of the traveling public in jefferson parish and we'll not corden off of the express way that's requested the interstate high or any other piece of highway in jefferson parish for purposes of that demonstration. it is not going to happen. that's not what we do. so that we are clear, you will abide by the code of ordinances of jefferson parish, you will abide by the state's statue and
the state of louisiana, we can do this in appropriate way and i am more than willing to work with you so that you can get your message across but it is not going to be to the detriment of the citizens of jefferson parish and it is not going to be in violation of any existing loss. i will turn it over to the coroner at this point in time that'll give you through some preliminary results as it relates to the autopsy. >> good afternoon everybody, i was at the scene yesterday and this morning, the autopsy was performed by the doctor and myself in attendance. i will give you a brief run down of a wounds that mr. mcknight suffered. he had a wound to his left hand and a grazed wound on his left
hand at the knuckle that entered the index finger and exited on the palmer size of his finger. that was wound number one. the wound number two exits through the shoulder and entered here and punctured his lungs and lodged around the ninth thoracic vertebrae latterly. the third gunshot was right below his nipple and it entered his chest down to his liver and went into his liver and went into his kidney and exited his right low back at the l 1 level. that's the three wounds that mr. mcknight had. i can tell you i have spoken
extensively to the doctor and looked at it myself, the wounds are not being consistent with being shot from above or on the ground. that's all i have to say at this point. >> look, i am just here just to say that it should ne a rush to judgment that the facts are still coming out and that we should base it on facts and not facebook and other social media. i pray for the mcknight family and remember we lost someone in this rather than putting out missed information, we need to focus on the facts. that's all i have to say. thank you. >> thank you, i appreciate the support and would ask that the rest of the community support us in this endeavor as well. i echo his comments to the mcknight family having followed
joe mcknight's career for a long time and i would be happy the answer any questions anyone have. >> could you say what may precipitated the chase? >> we are still trying to put it together, preliminarily, it may have been simply cutting one off in front of one recklessly while driving on the bridge. >> some are asking he's admitted to shooting him. or why could he be held while you investigate, i don't understand that, can you clear it up? >> in this state, there are some relative statues that provide defenses to certain crimes.
we have, for example, officers have those same defenses. when we shoot and kill somebody, the question is, is it homicide or justifiable or not? as you go through this process and we are piecing it together all of these statements, that's why. the fact the matter is, as i said before, you are very much on a slippery slope if you make a rush to judgment and you make a strategic or tactical error from the beginning that gets it hard to recover later. so out of abundance of cauti caution -- look, the easiest thing for me would have been book him, dano. the fact the matter is, in trying to flush out details as it relates to all of this and
not having that rush to judgment, and doing this in a v very deliberate fashion, we chose not to do that. where that leads us at this point in time is that everybody wants to make this about race. this is not about race. fol l just throw this out, folks, so that everybody knows. the gentleman that raged gentleman mcknight jr. used to work for this office. this office and many of the members sitting here, they are close to his family. the person that probably got more of a concern than anything else is mr. gasser because he does not know this. he used to work for this office.
so you know -- the man that raged joe mcknight used to be a deputy for the jefferson parish office. there is a connection, all right? this will be done in the appropriate way. >> since you mentioned race, are you investigating this as a possible hate crime? >> we have nothing of any witness that reveals anything to us at this point in time to suggest that. >> mr. gasser, does he have a concealed hand gun license? >> we are listening to sheriff norman about 24 hours ago where the 28-year-old joe mcknight was shot three times by 54-year-old ronald gasser, there were three
different wound and the person who revealed these identifying marks said that it is not consistent from being shot from above. we heard from the sheriff there of what has taken place and what has not taeken plaken place. lets go over on what happened on this saying that mr. gasser did not stand over and fire shots. three casings was found in the vehicle of ronald gaser. there is no video that they are aware of so far. there were no apologies that was extended from joe mcknight to ronald gasser. and some facts of connection here between the family and the person who raged joe mcknight being a former deputy of the parish's office. >> this is a weird conference coming out. we just withined an unusual press conference, all explain
why. it was highly defensive. this could have been an informational briefing. chief norman referred to what he felt were unfair characterization and what he said on social media and what he characterized was missed information. that was the case when you have a high profile case. he seems self pitying at times then until the q&a when he released something at the top of the apparent conflict of crest interest that this office had an individual who worked in the office that was close to the deceased here. it was more of a defense of they would not be biassed, which is we have some connection to the victim and we are going to remove conflict and reaccuse certain people based on that. that stuck out to me as, that's weird.
>> that was a response jacob rascon asked. norman's respond being that gasser does not know is that yeah, we are connected to this family. >> so we let the guy go so we can have more integrity? >> if anyone involved in this, would everyone -- if anyone should be worried about bias, it is the shooter, mr. gasser because the chief says we are close with the man to raced the decedent here. there is nothing to be necessary automatic in the ferry, just because the justice process takes some time or a suspect was released. the suspect can be questioned or
released or later arrested. you seem to have a violent act or evidence recovered and it might looked to the untrained eye like a quote on quote easy case. having said that and which go to their favor, i don't think this press conference was helpful to the police. it seems that there is an act and defensive and suggests somehow not that they are neutral at times. what i heard was perhaps, there may have been no crime here and that's one of the theory that is pursue it. that maybe true but i guess what i am telling you that it sounded like they wanted both ways saying there is no crime but they are not pursuing a theory yet. >> for folks out there, if you have pen and paper, the tip line is -- they are still looking for
tips and maybe you can help with the investigation there. >> they are only allowed to do so in certain places. we are continuing our watch of what's taking place in south carolina as well of the jury of michael slagle being ordered to go behind closed door of the shooting death of keith lamont scott. we'll be back with more after this. is it a force of nature? or a sales event? the season of audi sales event is here. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the season of audi sales event. (bing)
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>> we did have a lot of fun fighting hillary, did we? [ cheers ] >> remember you cannot get to 270 with the dishonest press. there is no row. from now on, it is going to be america's first. fiery exchanges between trump and hillary campaign and aids veered from the professional to the personal. >> i can tell you are angry but wow, hashtag he is your president, how is that? will he accept the election results? will you? will you ever accept the election? will you tell your protesters he's their president, too.
>> hashtag if he's going to be my president, he needs to show me that white supremacy is not acceptable. >> get out of here >> live now from the trump's transition tower there. mark, we heard a brief portion, now we had actual audio of the fire exchange last night. explain is this a showcase of inside baseball politics or just sour feelings of a really decisive bunch of campaigning. and it is hard feelings, it is striking after the election concluded, my colleague andrea mitchell, she's been going with campaign managers for years and years and even after some of the
most contentious elections with al gore and george h.w. bush when the recount went on. it is a reflection of how tough this campaign was and also how politics have changed. it has gotten a lot meaner and nastier and decisive. it played out a month later of the normally boring and cerebral cortex. >> yeah, the whole paradigm is turning us on our heads. can we hear more of that? lets take a listen. >> if providing a platform for
white supremacists makes me a brilliant tactician, i am glad to have lost, give me a minute, david. i am more proud of hillary. >> how did we win? i would like to know. >> i said -- i spent the last four monthst s >> i said -- i spent the last four monthst to do it. >> it did. >> that's how you are. >> do you think you could have just had a decent message. >> so it seems like kellyanne conway against the world in that. there was david bossy ie in the. you have seen a lot of activities of folks coming out today. who do you see? >> we are not expecting any announcements from the
transition team today. david purdue went in and out and we saw former secretary bob gates and we saw pam bondi and here is what she said after her meeting with the president elect. okay, we don't have that sound from her. she did come out and said she's happy to be attorney general and she talked about how hard she will be working and how hard that team is working. you get people going up in those elevators and you have them coming down and we sort of try to part every word to get some type of clue where things are going and the biggest question remains who the secretary of state will be we heard kellyanne conway saying it is down to the
four main and senator corkel and david patraeus and we heard since then from one of the trump's transition and a spokesperson who said there is one person in the industry who knows who the secretary of state will be. of course, thomas, as we said last night, you never know when it is going to happen. >> we do have that sound from pam, lets listen. >> i am on the transition team. we are doing everything we can to help him put the best people in place. right now i am attorney general of the state of florida. i think the whole country should be so proud of how hard he's up there working. most people when they get elected, take a realization, that man is working around the clock and non-stop with reince priebus and stephen bannon, they're up there and it is a great situation and it is positive. they are making a huge
difference for our country. >> she's talking about all the folks up in trump tower. we had to add a little perspective into this. did the naked cowboy ride up the elevator with north dakota for a meeting? >> reporter: yeah, he's been here almost everyday. i don't believe thomas -- he's been making appearances here. probably an interesting ride. >> we are seeing a little bit by mitt romney speared on kellyanne conway earlier. kristen, thank you very much. thank you all. that wraps up this hour of my coverage, my colleague, kate snow is here to pick things up. >> busy day today. breaking news out of louisiana where former nfloe mcknight was shot dead during a road rage
incident. new details this past hour. you heard the sheriff saying there is no video of the incident and saying that a lot of the stories out on social media are simply not true including reports of the shooter, ronald gasser. >> mr. gasser did not stand over there mcknight and fired shots into him. the three casings were located within the vehicle. mr. gasser was in his vehicle when he fired three shots. >> gasser was released over night and not charged which has drawn an out cry from pros tetes there. jacob rascon is joining me there. what have we learned? >> reporter: he