tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC December 14, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PST
thought it was enough. clearly donald trump thought it was insufficient. >> thank you for watching. you can find me on facebook or e-mail me whether you like the show or not at ari @msnbc.com. i'll be hosting again tomorrow at 6:00. "hardball" starts right now. >> trump's war. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. we are just weeks away from donald trump being sworn in as our 45th president of the united states. as he enters, he will immediately faces crises. and nothing is more devastating than years. i can't there are scenes of utter devastation coming from aleppo, a day after the human
high school cease fire between government of bashar assad and rebel groups. both sides blame the other. look at that city. the united nations called the situation there a complete meltdown of human an. assad's forces are backed by russia and iran. and more than 80 men, women and children have been shod. there are bodies in the streets. the rebels are holed up in a tiny sliver of a hole on the eastern side of the city but thousands are thought to be trapped with them. here's the latest. >> it has been said in the past, the middle east cease fire, before the ink is dry, the cease fire has collapsed. last night we understood there was a deal brokered by russia and turkey that would allow hundreds if not thousands of people, including rebels and their families torsion get on
buses and leave the city. as the sun rose, the cease fire collapsed. there was shooting and shelling. many people thought they would scatter and run for their lives. and today, well, it has increased. i've just heard from a colleague inside aleppo who said all day will has been very heavy shelling. it is a terrible betrayal of the people inside eastern aleppo. there are about 50,000 in there about, one square mile. we're not sure how big it is and how many are in there. yesterday we saw some of them bedraggled. leaving in terrible conditions. and we did think more would join
them. they have begun to attack rebel forces. what they call cluster bomb attacks all day long. and we know there have been casualties. certainly civilians. we don't know how many. but look, of aleppo is imminent. president assad has been on russian television today talking about what happens next. but you know, even if aleppo falls, this war is not over. isis controls a large part of eastern syria. including palmyra. they control the province in the north and in the south. and the kurds control turkey. even if aleppo falls, this war isn't over. it is not just a war between
rebels and government. and assad will control the four major cities. alep aleppo and others. but he doesn't control the whole country. he says he wants it back. certainly in the days ahead, we can expect many more. hours of fighting. and an increasing death toll, sadly. >> i'm joined now by bob corker of tennessee. senator corker, if you had to give advice on an intimate basis with the colonel president, or the incoming president, what would you tell him to do to try to stop this horror? >> well, look. we've been giving advice for four or five years, chris. this was said to be on the front end of the conflict. it is a blight on human kind.
at this point, the story as it relates to western syria is mostly written. and what will happen will be determined by russia who stepped in, and iran. and certainly assad. so this is a disaster we've known he is torturing his own people. you've seen the holocaust museum of caesar who was documenting this. cutting people's genitals off. it has been going on for a long time. it is as if people are beginning to wake up to what's occurred. as far as advice goes, russia will determine the outcome and the western part. so the real decision is on the eastern part. where isis is. are we going to team one the turks? with the arabs? who are in conjunction the
kurds? or do we do something in coordination with russia? the real what's left is the isis component. we unfortunately led these rebels on. we told them what we were going to do. we cheered them on. we held their coats. and this is what is left. >> what would you have done in? >> it was what was done with secretary clinton. that was to attempt to really give the moderate rebels, when there was a moderate rebel group, what they needed to push back. when the kept weapons were used, the free syrian army was on the move. they had momentum. when we decided not to carry out
that operation to push back, it depleted their montum. it left them in many ways lifeless. that we would not do what women. so there has been a series of efforts. we had the opportunity to create a no-fly zone along the southern border of turkey and aleppo. it doesn't do any good. it is a shame. russia is in there. russia is not going away. how do we move russia to bring down assad? >> you're not going to. it won't happen. the thing can happen is we can hope that we can bring the arabs to the table. they're concerned about iranian influence. and we can hope to negotiate over time.
after years and years and years, but at this point, russia controls what will happen in that area. >> the next president -- let's look at the next president. >> he is not sullied by the lack of decisions that have been made. knew exfocus on the isis on it. >> he has advocated during the campaign a stronger role from vladimir putin and even bashar assad. let's watch trump in action. >> if putin wants to go, i can't understand how anybody would be against it. i've been looking at the different players and i've been watching and i've been pretty good with this over the years.
deals are people. i'm looking at assad and saying maybe he is better than the kind of people we're supposed to be backing. >> your reaction? >> well, look. russia is hitting the folk that we have been supporting for years. in some cases, they're mixed in. but their focus has not been on isis. so the real decision will be, as i mentioned earlier, how do we go forward? do we try to do something? do we try to do so with the kurd era? the coalition has been put together. that's the decision that he has to make. would you support john bolton in
a top position in the new government? john bolton? >> i have made no comments on nominees until they're actually nominated. so let's see what happens. >> i understand. >> look. it is a nomination that has been controversial in the past. i've never really sat down and talking to john bolton one-on-one. until someone is nominated, i don't like to weigh in. >> how about the proposal to move the capital to jerusalem? it's always been talked about but never been done. >> candidly, i've talk to the israelis about it. and i think there is a way to communicate the moving of the embassy. what we have is a kons hat now that only works on the palestinian side. i think there's a way of doing it if you communicate that you're still hoping and working toward a two-state solution. so i know he campaigned on it.
i think it would be something at this point that could not be negative and could be very positive moving things along. so my guess is they will move in that direction. >> i disagree but that's your right. yesterday, the ambassador said they are responsible. >> to the assad regime, russia and iran, three member states, behind the conquest of and carnage in aleppo, you bear responsibility for these atrocities. when one day there is a full accounting of the horrors committed in this aassault of aleppo, and that day will come sooner rather than later, you will not be able to say you did not know what was happening or you were not involved. we all know what was happening and we all know you were involved. it should shame you.
instead, by all appearances, it is emboldening you. are you truly incapable of shame? is there no act of barbarism against civilians? no execution of a child that gets unltd your skin, that creeps you out a little bit? is there nothing you will not lie about or justify? >> that's the u.s. ambassador to the united nations. i'm joined by bob casey, democrat from pennsylvania. i was not getting a lot of response from your chairman, senator corker, about what we can do right now. we see the pictures coming from aleppo. can we leverage it? to petition the country? what can we do to stop the fighting. >> certainly, we can be continuing to make the efforts. that i know the administration has made and secretary kerry has
worked to get more humanitarian aid on the ground and deliver it. and i know that's an ongoing effort. i don't know how to place a metric on that in terms of success or failure but i know they're trying very hard. and certainly the russians have been, most of the time, have not been cooperative. other times they have been cooperative. lately i think samantha powers is right. not just aleppo but all throughout syria. but right now, the most important thing is to focus on getting that humanitarian aid and to focus on, as i will, the new congress. marco rubio and i, the far from florida, we have legislation that we've introduced that focuses on sanctioning. but also, focusing intensively on getting humanitarian aid
there. >> here's what a form he energy minister told engel about the incoming administration. let's watch this. >> the trump election and the new administration the way it is being shaped. it is a gift. he couldn't have dreamed about that a few months ago. >> so trump and his team are a gift. how do you react to that in. >> it is a reality that i think concerns not only me but a lot of the american people. you have this fascination that the president-elect seems to have with vladimir putin. i hope that when he is president, after he takes oath of office, i hope he makes it very clear to the american people that he will be very tough with russia. hold them accountable when they everybody gauge in the kind of
activity they've engaged in in syria. and i think the way he should view vladimir putin is the way i view him. as close to a 24-hour bad guy as you go get in the world stage. constantly intervening. even in our elections as we know now from good reporting. i hope the president-elect will have a different approach. >> two tough questions. john bolton for any top position. would you support him? the man, one of the top hawks in the iraq war. your thoughts. >> it would be very difficult for me to support him. i don't know what will happen in terms of the nomination. >> what about the idea, not the idea but the reality of moving our embassy to jerusalem. is that something that would be good for our relations over there? >> i would hope that we could but i don't think that's likely to happen. we'll see what the incoming administration does.
>> i hope it doesn't happen. it would be cataclysmic. >> it seems like paul ryan and donald trump are pals now. he said he is like a fine wine. it gets better with time. that's ahead. plus, the "hardball" round table. can the stars of the movie, the true story of three african-american women, math ma additions. and they composed the film's amazing sound track. finally let me finish with one of my sources. a political guy from boston who saw the election result coming. this is "hardball." a place for politics. my business was built with passion...
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choices for the top four positions in the incoming trump cabinet. the real plum jobs are all going to white men. the first time that's happen, on this has happened since 1989. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is
i've come the appreciate them of speaker paul ryan. where is he? he has been terrific. and honestly, he is like a fine wine. every day goes by. i get to appreciate his genius more and more. if he ever goes against me, i won't say that. okay? we have some amazing things in store. we're going to work on taxes and obamacare and he will lead the way. we're going to work on the wall, paul. >> see? the old favorites. the golden oldies. the wall. while trump appeared to put ryan on notice last night with their newly forged friendship, it produced big results.
and jeremy peters is with "the new york times." let's talk about this. it really gets to the heart of what will get done. he said, well, he won't approve a spending bill. will paul ryan grew he some grand economic deal? or will nothing get done? >> he has to. let's be honest. paul ryan at some point made calculated risk that trump won't win. what ryan has said since then, he has spoken to people that we haven't been. the key from that footage that you showed, you have to understand. a lot of trump supporters are not necessarily republican supporters. they're trump supporters. and ryan needs them. at the same time, president-elect needs ryan. it is an arranged marriage that you i think it will work.
they're hoping to get the country rolling again. big economic opportunities for everybody. if they don't pass a bill, road building, bridge building, spending money, hiring people, it is all bs if he doesn't do that. will everything along with it? >> ryan is governance. that's what he is in place to do. building bridges. the nation needs infrastructure. we have crumbling roads and bridges and buildings. but at the same time, donald trump said this on the campaign trail. and to make him successful, these two frenemies have to work. and paul ryan is the one to help find the ways and means to make it happen. >> will he force trump in every case, pay for this. pay for this. raise taxes to pay for this. it is a very hard thing to do. if you stip hate the economy. trump wants to cut a lot of taxes and spend money.
>> will they try conduct a scheme like they did? with the gas tax and call it a highway user fee? >> there will be a way to pay for this. yes. it will have to be done in a way that will be palatable to the grover norquists of the world. >> what's wrong with borrowing the money? trump bonds. get them to go out and sell trump bonds. >> this is where the cabinet secretaries will play a key role. his labor secretary. they are going to be deeply involved. >> elaine chao? >> the wife of --? >> mitch mcconnell. this was all very well thought of. >> do you think he got the spouse to get the spouse? do you think trump has figured this out? >> let's point out that she does have experience. >> i just saw her last night. i'm saying, was he thinking of this marital connection?
it was her ability to shepherd it through congress. it is a different story. >> his politics is business and he knows, that's what you do. you final common ground. politico reported that donald trump's son, donald jr., sat in on the interviews and made calls to candidates according to sources familiar with the process. montana congressman ryan zinke was offered the post tuesday. it was an outdoor. he said the only job in government i would want is department of the interior. ends the issues. it is something i will be passionate about. no one gets him more than us. that's the kid talking.
>> the transition team has been very transparent that donald trump jr. is on the transition team. he is someone who is helping us form this. it only makes expense the transition team member was active in the process. >> well, you know, trump does listen to other people for advice. it took him a while to pick the new secretary of state designate. but he uses his kids. can he get away as using his kids in the midst of a presidency? >> i think he will do it and try to figure it out later. i don't think that it matters to him. this is what he has always done. it speaks to how trump doesn't really change. will he stop tweeting now that he's become president? of course not. will he stop going after his
rivals? of course not. >> how does that affect our operation in india in any time he is talking about indiana, he is talking about indian tribes or anything. how does that affect the operation? >> donald trump is falling back on who he is. it is about business. his children very strategic for him. we saw it today when he had a tech meeting. all three were in the meeting. and trump falls back on that. he is trying on final business solutions to our everyday problems. >> can you put your children in a blind trust? >> the stocks have to be in a blind trust. >> the children cannot be in charge of a blind trust. >> they can't be in one either. >> if you look through campaign, every time the kids got involved, they help make better decisions. not worse.
>> so he could put up with bad press. >> you would say risk taking is heat for conflict. >> governance will win out. what happens when all those trump buildings become targets for the bad guys? here's a way to hit america. the "hardball" roundtable is staying with us. and always, the star studded -- this is great stuff. the new about to come out movie. hidden figures. they're all coming to "hardball" to talk about three african-american mathematicians who worked behind the scenes to get space program off the ground. it really happened. we should have known about it 50 years ago. world ugly and messy.
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tell me something i don't know. >> i'm making a prediction two years out. the republican there's pick up three senate seats in 2018 going against idea that you're going to lose seats. >> because there are so many exposed democratic seats. >> what is the big upset? >> i think pennsylvania. >> the synopsis. the presidential briefings, going back a couple years since we're hearing about how donald trump doesn't like to git get them the repetition every day.
bill clinton was a investigatoration reader. george w. bush had people come in and give them, and now president obama read as well as takes the briefings. so we understand donald trump does not like to read much. so we are expecting it will be catered to him. >> senior sources on capitol hill. it seems like rex tillerson will be fine. fine doesn't mean the process will be pleasant or not bumpy. >> if i don't see you again, merry christmas. still ahead interesting stars of the movie, hidden figures. stick around. this is great stuff. octavius spencer, kevin costner.
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vladimir putin was personally involved in the campaign to interfere in the election. and yahoo! is disclosing a 2015 breach that allowed hackers to steal personal information from more than a million users. in semi, yahoo! revealed another hacking affecting 500 million accounts. >> we're coming back with the stars of hidden figures who help launch america's space program. and here is a clip from the film. >> you're at nasa. that's pretty heavy stuff. >> yes, it is. >> they let women handle -- that's not what i mean. >> what do you mean? >> i'm just surprised something
so taxing -- >> mr. johnson, if i were you, i would quit talking right now. >> i mean no disrespect. >> i will have you know, i was the first female negro student at west vf graduate school on any given day, i analyze friction and velocity. and compute over 10,000 calculations by hand. so yes. they let women do some things at nasa, mr. johnson, and it is not because we wear skirts. it is because we wear glasses. >> the stars behind this great movie are coming here next. it will be great to watchful this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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think you can find me the frame for this data using -- >> the algorithim, yes, sir. i prefer it over euclidian coordinates. >> welcome back. that was the scene from the upcoming flil, hidden figures. the true story of three african-american mathematicians and the key role they played at nasa to launch the first american into orbit. it sets the struggle of equal rights against the space race. even at nasa, african-americans were segregated from their white counter parts. this is a film about women who broke barriers in more ways than one. here's a clip for the trailer. >> katherine! we're all going to get unemployed. >> i'll sit in the back of the bus. >> you have identification? >> we were just on our way to work at nasa, sir. >> i had no idea they hired. >> quite a few women working in the space program.
>> that's john glenn. >> what do you women do for nasa? >> calculate your landing, sir. and i'm proud. >> it's equal rights. i have a right to see fine in every color. >> would you wish to be an engineer? >> i wouldn't have to. i would already be one. >> hidden figures is out in select theaters at christmas time. christmas day and a wider following on january 6. i am joined by those people who made the movie come to life including the stars of the film. taraji p. henson. she is the superstar. and octavia spencer, i've been in love with her for a long time. and you all look very glamorous. you're dressed like bureaucrats. the great kevin costner is here and of course, singer-songwriter, and the director, thank you. i love st. vincent with bill
murray. you just dominate movie. i had to say that. and putting one jim crow and putting one jim crow in a federal institution. what grabbed me in the beginning was, the cop who stopped you guys in your '57 chevy i love those. he stops you in a car and he has the usual color mentality going. on black/white thing going on. and all of a sudden he says you're in the space program. and his patriotism kicks in. >> yes. >> tell me about that. >> well, i think that's the overall message of the story. when we put our differences aside as humans, we're able to move the human race forward. at the end of the day, we're all humans. a mind doesn't have a color. when it comes to calculating numbers, i don't care what color you are. i don't care who you sleep with at night. can you find the math? >> i love the score.
this person that taraji is playing, everybody has to go to the bathroom and everybody knows the experience of having to go to the bathroom now. and then she has, it is like a bad dream. i have to go to a building where there's a colored women's bathroom. and you got this great music. tell me abo the music you put in there. >> man, the music was largely just led by -- >> it is called running. >> yes, sir. that song was just based on a story. when we got the script, okay. these women are living in the matrix of the 1960s where the physics and the gravity for african-americans was much heavier. and it was twice as hoef a woman. so having to run to the bathroom, not only the other side of the building but the other side of the campus. and there were campus bikes. but for women, we forget as men, you know, long skirts, long dresses. so they had to run rain or shine, 30 on 45 minutes round trip to the other side of the campus just to use the bathroom.
>> so ted and the other ladies here, high leels a big part of this for some reasons. maybe it is the photography. the women look great but you're always shooting the legs and the shoes. and one time they get caught. and you almost get killed. it is a wind tunnel. you look great by the way. the guy says, the shoe ain't worth it. when you're running to the bathroom, it is high heels. so women in high heels being african-american in a jim crow setting. we did it all like we do every day. what is so inspiring, they did not allow the obstacles to deter them and stop them from the dreams.
yes, we were dealing with classism and racism. when nasa put all those isms to bed, that's when they achieved the extraordinary together. at the end of the day, we all bleed the same color. >> i think of you all the time in a movie. i think i've seen 13 days a hundred times. and in the middle of a cuban crisis, you have that same time period. it is '62. this movie includes the reality of american high of much better. you can give some of that a pass. how many stories can you possibly tell? if you look beneath the surface, you will final the story. if you are going to tell original story about john glenn.
not the women working off to the side. if you're going to tell that story, there is a moment when he would go or not going. so it would be like telling a joke and maybe leaving out a punch line. there was a moment where he was going to go or not go and it huck on the balance of a young woman who would have to do math by hand. in great story telling, you don't leave out that bit. if we don't learn about these human computers, i can see that story. hmmm, i would have liked to know about that a long time ago. but not knowing about that moment, that should have been a part of what we knew about for a long time. >> he was a good guy, octavia. >> he was a good guy, period. i learned something about him that i didn't know and it made him that much more of an american hero to me. he did something unpopular. he put his hands in the life of
this african-american woman. if her numbers didn't match up, he wouldn't go. >> he wanted to know he was going to land. >> that's key information. they have to get to it. with th ship. but you were in "the help." >> i was in "the help." >> i always remember that meal you cooked up for that white lady. we will always remember that. this tastes interesting. so you've gotten at the jim crow thing from a couple ways now. >> jim crow is a very difficult time to immerse yourself in, but when you're doing a period film, we have agency as contemporary women that african-american women did not have in the jim crow era. so there's something wonderful to be said about the solidarity that we felt on the set, very insulated, ted created a safe place for us to work and have fun. >> i like the way, taraji, you look up at that sign as you go out of the room, colored computers. they still designate you by your
ethnicity. let's take another look at the movie. >> go find your way over there. >> that colonel jim is a tall glass of water. >> that he is. >> tall, strong, commanding. >> and i bet he's like that day and night. >> mary, it's sunday. please have some shame. >> i will not. >> he's coming over. >> now, why would he be doing that? >> because mary's waving at him. >> no. >> ladies. >> fix your hair. >> i'm dorothy vaughn, that's ms. jackson. and mrs. katherine. >> she's not married. she's a widow, with three beautiful little girls. so well behaved. angels on earth is like we like to call her. dorothy, slice of pie? >> excuse me. >> you already have a slice of pie. >> so it's so great you're doing this. i'm so glad you took this project. i'm so glad you took this podge. everybody took it.
because hollywood needs it. it's not a redo, but it's something. >> we need to see this story. we need little girls to see this story. we need little boys to see this story. we need people to know that history wasn't a bunch of white guys in a room. nasa was very diverse. nasa celebrates these women. these women are not hidden from nasa. nasa has been honoring these women for a long time. great to tell the general public that. >> guys, honor to meet you all. >> thank you. >> pharrell, the music gets to even me. >> we can keep the mugs? >> you can keep the mugs, we can get you hats. politics and culture are together. they're the same thing. this collection, whatever you think of it, culture and politics are together. we got to put it all together. merry christmas to everybody. >> thank you so much. >> i was just going to say, you're not mr. straight hour. we've been watching you for years. >> yes. >> and your interviews is and the way that you keep people straight is amazing, and when
people that gives me the benefit of their thinking even when i'm not smart enough to accept it. i've known edward jess per, our political expert from boston since we worked together at the white house in the 1970s. we've been friends ever since. he's been in presidential campaigns from george mcgovern, sargent shriver, paul songs a. as a democrat by nurture and an independent by nature. he thinks for himself. he doesn't run with the pack. he spent the good part of the past presidential election giving me the benefit of his thinking. and his thinking would be that donald trump would be the winner. he was writing to me when the pundits were predicting a hillary clinton landslide. he e-mailed me the morning after the election he said that trump would get the nomination because he was the only performer, think about that word, performer out there in the field then. on st. patrick's day, he maled me this, we are awash in donald trump. he may be the best political operative in the modern era.
a mix of lee atwater and bill clinton, yet he's only beginning to be treated by the political insiders. who else was in trump's league during the primaries? on august 21th ed ream e-mailed me that hillary clinton has little improvement room. her image, her being is pretty much set in stone in the people's minds. not much is good for her outside the area of her supporters. trump is no longer la raza but his political raison d'etre, they'll still hammer him but not with the percentage or turnout she is expecting today. for hillary's gang, it will be much like the french generals defending the line. well, ten days before the election, ed wrote that he thought that trump could still win because all the public polling to the contrary, hillary clinton was not running away with it. even in the best of times when trump was saying the worst of
his stuff, killing himself, she was not opening up a significant lead. in his e-mail to me on october 27 was after an obscenely successful nonstrop run on trump by the national forces of morality he called them, i'm running into those who can't vote for hillary. also in that october 27 e-mail a proposal, could you secure, say, a half hour more of your show for a serious discussion of polling? when november 4th, the friday before the election ed wrote me hillary has to get enough black votes in the lock box before the old fashioned vote next tuesday and it appears she'll fail. she's not going to match obama's vote among blacks. why on earth did the clinton people ever think she would? every indication i get is everything is breaking for trump and has been from before the comey letter. if so, it's been my experience that late breaking waves are virtually immutable. everyone wants change, sad to say it may be as simple as that.
with christmas coming close, i want to say thanks to ed jess per, at least for keeping me in male distance of rough reality, tough reality. merry christmas ed and connie. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> yes, that's right. lock her up. >> major revelations about trump's pick for national security adviser. sharing classified information with foreign governments. >> if i did a tenth -- a tenth of what she did, i would be in jail today. >> then stunning new details about russia's cyber attack on the u.s. election. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails. >> senator kick ddick durban. and the quid pro quo to lure enteainers to