"mtp daily." f "for the record" with greta starts right now. ♪ tonight, veep. my special interview with vice president mike pence right here in our studio. talking about the big speech and making news on budget cuts, terrorism and the road ahead and obamacare. can president trump bridge that deep divide with democrats and republicans? and what about the divide within his own party? can he unite republicans? last night he laid out a bold agenda offering much to many, but where is he going to get the money for his pricey agenda? zblmp also lots of second guessing to the democrats' response to the president's speech, one

democrat saying, "that was a mistake." and who is the leader of the democratic party and why didn't one of the party's rising stars seize the moment on the national stage? all that plus a cable news dream come true. what oprah said about a run for president that has folks talking today. we start with president trump and the questions and challenges ahead after he addresses the nation. his speech to congress, specifically his tone, winning praise from both sides of the ai aisle but the question now is about policy and substance and what can be done to get it done and at what price. this afternoon, the president meeting at the white house with vice president pence, speaker ryan, leader mcconnell and party leaders to begin the work of translating last night's speech into action. >> thank you very much. we're just here to start the process. it begins as of now, and we

think we're going to have tremendous success and thank you very much. >> moments ago, i spoke with vice president mike pence joining me, the vice president of the united states. vice president mike pence. nice to see you, sir. >> good to see you, greta. >> i interviewed you so many times i called you congressman, governor, now mr. vice president. >> very humbling. >> or can't hold a job, right? just teasing. justtizi tieasing. how is the job? >> greatest privilege of my life to be the vice president for the 45th president of the united states. i think people saw last night at the podium the president that i work with every day. he's someone i like to say with broad shoulders, a big heart, and a vision for the country that the reaction that we're hearing all over the united states today is an affirmation of the kind of leadership that i know he's going to continue to bring for this country. >> he had a broad agenda last night. >> he did. >> he talked about a lot of

things and the thing that occurred to me is everything he talked about costs money. costs lots of money. and you've got, you know, so you got to get it. where are you going to get this money? >> well, we actually produced this week the outlines of the budget that the president will submit a little bit later this month and he's obviously placed a premium on rebuilding the military. look, because of -- >> $54 billion, extra, right? >> it's $54 billion, may be a defense supplemental before that so it may actually be more than that. if the congress will approve it, it will be the largest single-year increase in defense spending since the reagan administration, but look, greta, we need it. the truth is that our servicemen and women routinely inform us as leaders on capitol hill know about the shortages, about the lack of new equipment, about the lack of resupply. we have to make that investment in the military. now, the president's outline actually has budget cuts that would offset those. we'll begin that process of going forward, but --

>> so -- >> -- putting the security of the american people will be the top priority. >> so something is going to get hurt, the epa is going to lose some money. if you do budget cuts, every place look for a dollar for the military, you got to grab a dollar from something else. >> well, that's the goal is just like every family in america, you want to square your -- you want to square your books. you want to make sure that the income meets the outgo. and that the president does not want a budget that will add to the deficit and that outline achieves that goal. but remember, the other centerpiece of the president's agenda is all about growth. from the first day of this administration, we've been rolling back regulations that have been killing jobs in this country and the president last night called on the congress to pass the kind of tax reform for individuals and businesses that will unleash the full potential of the american economy. i mean, the way we meet the needs of this government, the way we actually tackle the issue of national debt, is to get this economy growing again. at 3% or more. the president's plan can do

that. >> all right. how are you going to get the money? i keep going back to this money thing. being president, governing is a tough thing, the more money, the easier it is. we don't have a lot of money. we have a huge debt. you got the freedom caucus among the house republicans and they ran for -- they ran for their office saying they weren't going to get any bigger debt. well, if we're going to borrow money, all of a sudden they got a bigger debt, they got a bigger problem back home and will be mad at you. >> you know, when i was in the hou house of representatives i was one of those conservatives and still am. so is the president. this is a president who's built a great business career. he knows how american free enterprise will thrive. that's why top priority, repeal and replace obamacare with -- we do away with the mandates and taxes but we replace it with the kind of reforms that make sure no one is left behind in medicaid. we take care of pre-existing conditions but also harness the power of the private marketplace

allowing people to buy health insurance across state lines. that with regulatory reform with an infrastructure bill the president's committed to using public and private dollars and with tax relief, we really believe is going to do as president john f. kennedy said, will cause all ships to rise, that rising tide, that growing economy. that's how we'll meet the needs of our government and that's how we'll ultimately -- we'll ultimately restore fiscal sanity to washington, d.c. >> i don't want to be the naysayer, but you talk about the infrastructure bill back in 2009, the president obama, then-president obama stimulus bill had a huge component, was in infrastructure and a lot of republicans voted against it, so how do you convince them now, those who are still here, now it's a good idea? it wasn't a good idea when they voted against it but now it's a good idea because their guy's in the white house. >> well, it's a great point but i would correct you respectfully. i mean, if that stimulus bill in early '09 had been mostly infrastructure, i bet it would

have gotten a lot of bipartisan support. you saw bipartisan support last night when the president talked about our plan to invest a trillion dollars in rebuilding roads and bridges and infrastructure in this country. that stimulus bill was just a small part of that. what the president wants do is work with republicans and democrats and really meet the needs of restoring the information of this kun fromcou. roads mean jobs. not just road jobs. have the right infrastructure that creates an environment for investment that will put american people back to work. >> obama compare which obamacare, repeal and replace aspect of it. >> right. >> american people i think, as i can be so bhoeold, don't want t prices to go up anymore. >> right. >> they want pre-existing conditions to be covered they'd like expanded care if possible. how do you fix that? sounds more like from what i hear the conversations on capitol hill, isn't really repeal and replace, it's sort of like fix obamacare. are we fixing it or mean repe

repealed and replaced with something brand new? >> we're going to repeal it and replace it with the kind of reforms that will lower the cost of health insurance without g w growing the size of government. i will tell you, it's not that americans want their health insurance to go up anymore, as the president said last night, in some states around the country, you've seen health insurance premiums go up 100%. >> that's arizona. >> the american people want to see the cost of health insurance go down, and that can work if we unleash the power of the marketplace. take care of people with pre-existing conditions. the president made it clear he wants congress to do that. make sure states have the resources and flexibility to manage medicaid in a way that leaves no one behind among our most vulnerable citizens. but with regard to that replacement, what we want to do is create that national marketplace. the american people know that they ought to be able to buy health insurance the same way you buy life insurance and the way you buy car insurance. it's across state lines. a broad range of choices. instead of having government approved, government mandated

health insurance, that only results in higher costs and less coverage. >> so we can afford -- we can afford the new program that you're proposing, not going to push us farther in debt? >> i believe that we can. and our entire administration working with secretary price at hhs, we had a good meeting today with the leadership of the house and the senate. and i think you're going to see literally in the coming days a very brisk pace on capitol hill to keep our word to the american people and come out at the end with a better system, a better program, that will give americans more choices and ultimately from our medicaid program on up through the whole population, give people a chance for better health care coverage and better health. >> explain to me why you were in the house in one of your other lives, why can't they be working on all these things at once? why can't the committees be working on obamacare, the committees be working on infrastructure, committees working on tax reform? i mean, all of them. instead we have to wait and it's

drip, drip, drip. >> well, to a large ex-dent, th they are. preliminary work is being done on various committees on broad range of the president's priorities but actually the resolution that will repeal obamacare is a budget resolution, has to be passed before another budget resolution can be passed this spring. we'll do repeal and replace first, then the president wants us to move on a broad range of issues related to ending illegal immigration, rebuilding the military, infrastructure and then this spring use the second budget bill, which has to wait until after the first one, to pass the kind of tax relief that will really unleash the energy of the american economy. >> all right. let me reach beyond our borders to a terrible topic, chemical weapons. we have the situation with the half-brother of kim jong-un being murdered with a chemical weapon about two weeks ago. and we've got the situation where the resolution in the u.n. where it was going to increase sanctions against syria for use of chemical weapons on at least

three occasions against its citizens was vetoed by russia and china. chemical weapons. we don't -- there's not been much discussion, i take it that the pentagon is all over this, but what are we going to do about north korea? i mean, we're focused on the nuclear weapons but now we see evidence of this. >> i think the president's made it clear that the issue of north korea already garnered a cig kamt amount of attention by our administration. i know while prime minister abe was visiting the united states, north korea actually fired a missile in the direction of japan. it fell in the ocean about 200 miles short, but the provocations by and what we assume is the murderous act most recent of kim jong-un against his half-brother using chemical agents, vx agents, i think should be deeply troubling and the american people should know that our administration is in the process of talking to our allies in the region and

discussing ways that we can -- that we can deal with the rising threat of north korea. >> i don't pretend to know the solution, but it seems like every administration has tried something. we've tried talking to them. we've tried sanctions. we've tried six-party talks. and what's happened is that every time you pick up the newspaper, they're moving further and further ahead. they've had another test on a nuclear weapon last september, i think it was their fifth successful one. they've got the missile launch that you just spoke on. you know, i'm not suggesting we invade them, not suggesting anything. are there any new ideas? because this is -- the signs are bad. they're not moving in a direction in a good direction, they are creeping in a very bad direction. >> well, and the world community and community in the region, and the united states, are committed to a nuclear-free korean peninsula. and part of what you're going to see the president do is continue to engage china, continue to engage russia, japan, other allies in the region.

of course, south korea. to bring pressure to bear to achieve that objective of a nonnuclear korean peninsula. >> one last question. islam -- is radical islamic terrorism a term you would use? i know that the president used it last night, but we're hearing that our new national security adviser recommends that we not use it. >> we all fully support the naming of our -- of what it is that we face on t. on the campaign trail, president trump was the first in the famous speech in ohio to name radical islamic terrorism and said we need to bring the broadest range of resources to bear, not just military, but also on the internet, also with our allies, also reaching out to moderate voices in the islamic world to join us to eradicate radic radical islamic terrorism from the world. at this very moment, our administration, leadership at

the department of defense, are developing plans to begin that process by focusing on hunting down an destroy isis at its source, and the recent operation in yemen was a highly successful operation against al qaeda and we'll continue. we'll continue those efforts and with renewed energy to defeat those who would project force against our people, threaten the people of the united states or our u our alleys. >> so many topics. it's a complicated job you have. >> it is. it's a privilege. >> it's a privilege. i hope you come back, sir. will you come back? >> i will. >> thank you. >> thank you, greta. how are democrats responding today? do they see new -- or is this all about fighting him tooth and nail? i'll talk to democratic senator ed markey. senator ted kroourz acruz and o republicans saying today to nbc news about president trump's

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♪ some on the left say last night the president struck a better tone. 36% of democrats found the speech unifying, but what about policy? >> tonight i am also calling on this congress to repeal and replace obamacare. >> you saw some democratic women dressed in white giving the thumbs down. a major question, how do

republicans pla s replace obama? that's when they did it. a few spots democrats got up to applaud. >> to invest in women's health and to promote clean air and clean water and to rebuild our military and our infrastructure. we strongly support nato, an alliance forged through the bonds of two world wars that dethroned fascism and the cold war and defeated communism. >> senator ed markey, democrat from the great state of massachusetts joins us. nice to see you, sir. >> thank you, good evening. >> so, senator, tell me what you most disagreed with last night with the president and what you most agreed with. >> well, first of all, just in the clip that you had, there's an internal contradiction. on one hand, president trump says, well, he wants cleaner air and cleaner water and to

increase the defense of our country. well, he's going to cut the budget for the environmental protection agency which fights the battle for clean air and clean water by 20%. so he's going to retreat on the protections for the things that really do matter for security for people in their homes, for their families, for their children, and when he says he wants to increase defense spending, what he forgets to leave out, to add, is it's going to come at the expense of health care, at the expense of education, at the expense of clean air and clean water, and at the expense of the state department diplomacy budget. so he wants to increase by tens of billions of dollars the number of nuclear weapons which we have, while he simultaneously is cutting the funding for diplomacy that would avoid the need for us to ever have to use

those nuclear bombs. it just doesn't add up. >> so is there any program that he suggested where you thought, yeah, that's a good idea? >> well, again, if we can have an infrastructure bill that is put together on a bipartisan basis for new roads, for new bridges, that would be great, but if part of that -- >> where, okay. given that -- given that, where do we get -- i heard you list a number of things before about how he's taking money from the epa, he's going to build up the military, we don't have that. and you like the infrastructure. well, if we don't have the money for the other two, where are we getting the nurn the infrastructure? >> exactly. so donald trump has a formula that doesn't add up. he's got a lot of wall street guys working for him. maybe they should just show him the numbers. if you have huge tax breaks for wealthy people, and you increase defense spending simultaneously, there is no money left over for infrastructure. there is no money left over for

these other programs. it doesn't add up. >> there isn't money, anyway. you talk about money left over, we godon't have any money. we are so far in debt, we don't have any money right now to do anything anyone wants. we got to get it someplace, we got to borrow it, we got to print it, we got to steal it. i mean, i don't know where we're going to get this money and these are -- all these things are things that, you know, people want lower health care. i don't blame them. that's got to be paid for. people want cleaner air. we got to pay for that. the whole thing is rather complicated. we don't have the cash. >> well, greta, here's what mike pence just said to you, they're going to get the money. the $54 billion. from all the other programs. that is education, it is health care, it is environment. it's all these other programs. so he just told you where the money's coming from, it's coming -- >> those aren't even paid for. those aren't even paid for. >> here's the bottom line, the bottom-line agenda that they have is this. they have an ancient animosity,

right-wing republicans, toward all of these democratic programs. they want to leave them as debt-soaked relics of what they once were. and the only way to do it is to create such a huge deficit that ultimately social security, medicare, medicaid, are all on the table. all on the chopping block. so it's all part of the grand plan that they could not ultimately implement during the reagan years or during the gingrich era, and they're bringing out the exact same plan and hoping that the american people will swallow it this time, but they're too smart because once they see the actual details of the social programs for the poorest children, for the poorest seniors in our country, they're going to retreat as fast as they can and just, again, run up the debt because ultimately they have to give these tax breaks to the wealthiest because that's the promise they made during the campaign and it's the one thing that they're going to be sure

that they're going to fulfill. >> senator, thank you for joining us. hope you come back, sir. >> thank you, thanks for having me. moments ago, vice president pence swearing in ryan zinke, former congressman and navy s.e.a.l. and confirmed by the senate earlier today by a 68-31 vote and the vice president raced over to swear him in. and coming down the pike, potential friction between president trump and members of his own party. what republican lawmakers are seeing today about the promises the president just made. and an exclusive tonight. i'll speak with two former heads of the environmental protection agenc agency, from different parties about president trump's plans to slash the efa's budget.

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president trump making a lot of promises last night. >> i believe that real and positive immigrant reform is possible as long as we focus on the following goals. to improve jobs and wages for americans. to strengthen our nation's

security. and to restore respect for our laws. i am also calling on this congress to repeal and replace obamacare. >> but will his own party support that vision on immigrati immigration, on health care, on the budget? nbc's kasie hunt caught unwith senators graham and cruz on the challenges facing president trump's agenda in congress. >> our focus needs to be on lowering premiums, lowering costs, expanding choices. >> the president did mention tax credits as a possibility. >> he did, but the principles he focused on are exactly the right principles. >> are you saying that you think that president trump could be a leader on immigration reform and -- >> i think president trump could be a deal closer. i think he's in the best position of any president to deliver on immigration. >> editor at large for the "weekly standard." nice to see you, bill. bill, i make the assumption governing is probably a lot easier if you have a whole lot

of money and you can do all these things and, but i'm very practical. i don't know where is the money coming from, for any of the democrats' programs or the republicans'? >> coming by increasing the debt. trump ran pretty aggressively on the debt, that was a big instance, example, symbol, of how washington is broken, right? $20 trillion in debt they've run up. doubled in the last eight years. it's the standard republican talking point about obama, a correct criticism in my view. it's unsustainable. trump did not mention debt last night. >> i suppose if he can chip away at it, make it less bad as we go on, i guess that's dependent on whether or not the economy is robust and people are paying into the treasury. i mean, that he would at least get credit if he can at least start -- >> i mean, his first budget looks like will try to hold the deficit even at about -- great we now think $500 billion, that's great, that's not a serious deficit. you know, i'm old enough to remember when that was real money and people didn't think you should -- in normal peacetime moments after six years of growth should not be running a $500 billion deficit.

he doesn't want to cut government much despite the talk about epa and state, instead wants to keep the general level the same. >> we cant clean air, we want clean water, we want education, we want health. those are actually very important things. >> they are but can be delivered more effectively. the main thing i would say, we don't know the details about anything on this. they took over, the cabinet appointees have been slowly ratified by the senate and, you know, takes a while to get things going when the other party's had things for eight years. it's understandable. he needs to lay out some legislative stuff pretty soon i think and get to work on actually figuring out what his legislative coalitions are, pass which bills when. this isn't easy, governing. 52 republicans in the senate, they have different views about different things. he has a little momentum after the speech last night, was not crazy, reasonably sober, people seemed to like it according to the polls. i were he, i'd get whatever legislative strategist they have, they did have some of the leaders of congress in to lunch today. they need to get going on this. if it dissipates, six weeks from now, it's unclear what the tax

plan is, obamacare replacement is in some swamp somewhere and immigration, people are just talking about, i think the chances of his having a bad year legislatively, not passing the tax cuts, not passing obamacare, repeal and replace, are not trivial. >> it seems to me he needs to get the freedom caucus, chief party and republican party on board, if he loses them, he's going to have a bad year. that's almost a guarantee. >> the conservative republicans in the house, needs susan collins, more moderate republicans in the senate. it's hard. >> the more moderate republicans in the senate last night probably would have been happy with a lot of things, said he's going to take care of obamacare, fix it, repeal and replace. clean air, clean water, education. who can be against those things? >> people can be against the details. this, again, is where you have to deal and prioritize and say, you know what, i'll give you something on this. i need your vote on that. i think they're not at that stage. doesn't mean they couldn't get in. the real test is now coming up. all this, the first five, six weeks, have been a phony war. real presidents, successful presidents in their first year

pass major legislation. reagan passed the tax code, obama passed the stimulus then obamacare. took him a little bit to his second year. will trump repeal and replace obamacare, will he pass real tax reform? could he do immigration reform? that would be pretty amazing after the campaign. nixon goes to china. i think, lindsay graham is right on that incidentally. build a huge wall. trump didn't care about immigration until two years ago when it was successful in the campaign. he cared about trade for 30 years. cheerily employed immigrants and illegal immigrants on his properties. didn't say a word about it until two, three years ago. imagine trump becoming modera moderately liberal on legalization, the wall, a lot of bluster about that. to pull off that -- took nixon and kissinger to work if out, for trump to work out a kind of combination of a wall and a moderate immigration plan, that takes real legislative skill. and work and i just don't know if it's there. >> bill, thank you. right now at the white

houshous house, president trump is having dinner with secretary of state rex tillerson, days away from the president rolling out his new executive order on immigration and travel. we'll be right back. st friend. uh oh. yeah. oop! there's the rescue text from my roommate saying she needs me. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back: the citi double cash card. no one burns on my watch! try alka seltzer heartburn relief chews. they work fast and don't taste chalky. mmmmm...amazing. i have heartburn. alka seltzer heartburn relief chews. enjoy the relief.

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to keep our word to the american people and come out at the end with a better system, a better program, that will give americans more choices and ultimately from our medicaid program on up through the whole population, give people a chance for better health care coverage and better health. >> national political report spont for the "washington post." kate ritlyn huey burns, for "re clear politics. i don't understand the obamacare thing, it's enormously complicated. the sort of repeal and replace and look another what they're suggesting which is sort of like fix this. you know, which may be necessary, but we're so bogged down in this repeal and replace aspect of it. >> i mean, we have the president earlier within the past week saying nobody tells you it's complicated. well, yeah, every president since harry truman could have told him it was complicated. right now, what he listed last night in the speech were a bunch of sort of -- >> fixes. >> well, tinkers.

>> yeah. tinkers. fixes. >> it's not the sort of comprehensive look at the whole systemic what does it take to drive health care cost down? which by the way, is a place where, you know, obamacare, itself, the affordable care act, talked a better game than it produced. >> you know, ken, i almost think this is -- i shouldn't be looking at health care in terms of political terms. i think that's sort of unseemly. i'm going to do it, anyway. almost would have been better off letting obamacare get worse, because now it's going to be trumpcare. he's going to have this -- this could be on his tombstone. >> yeah, they painted themselves into a corner by saying this the first thing that they're going to do. and mike pence reiterated that in his interview with you saying that's what they're working on then they have a number of other priorities. all those things are going to get pushed back because of how complicated this is. it's going to make it harder for him to get a win, political win, at a time when he really had the most potential opportunity to do so.

>> kaitlyn? gh it >> it's interesting, though, at the same time, you have conservatives on the hill saying we campaigned on this for six years, if we don't do it now, that's a campaign promise that will have political consequences beyond what we're seeing now then you have conserve dative groups starting to get involved putting on this pressure. i was on the hill today, a lot of republican lawmakers were remarking at the president's address, something that gave them a little momentum at a time that this process has been stalled out and they've been recess where they're getting attacks from constituents about obamacare and what they're doing to do about it. they have a few weeks until the next recess and five months until august. they do not have lot of time to get things done and have to go back to their constituents with something. >> all right. next topic, are you ready for oprah in 2020? the recent success of another billionaire media celebrity apparently has oprah winfrey thinking about her political future. >> have you ever thought that given the popularity you have, we haven't broken the glass ceiling yet for women, that you could actually run for president and actually be elected?

>> i never considered the question even a possibility. i just thought, oh, oh. >> right. because it's clear that you don't need government experience to be elected president of the united states. >> that's what i thought. i thought, oh, gee, i don't have the experience. i don't know enough. i don't -- now i'm thinking, oh. >> all right. well, okay. >> i suspect she might have been having a little fun with us. i will say one thing, she'd probably be the best person ever at town halls. lots of experience. >> plus everybody would have something under their chair to take away. >> and any chance, any chance? >> no. >> any chance? >> i mean, i would just say that it's caused us -- trump's surprising success after we had all counted him out has -- should cause us to sort of re-evaluate who is a potentially viable presidential candidate. that said, didn't sound like she had any -- >> didn't sound like she had interest.

kaitlyn, let's face it, she's smart, she's self-made. she's run big organizations. she -- maybe she can self-fund if she wants to and can do town halls and, you know, i don't know what else to say. >> trump's presidency does say that, you know, experience does not -- is not necessary. right? >> not -- it's a different experience. i mean, i don't want to ever underestimate business experience. >> sure. >> or whatever -- >> political experience. sure. what i -- i mean, trump was successful because he does have his own brand. i think any -- i think we're going to start to see different kinds of unconventional candidates get into congressional races, perhaps run for the presidency in the future. i'm not sure we can always apply this election and how trump did to every single other outsider candidate that kind of gets in. but it does also leave the door open -- >> i don't know. give me a choice of being president and being oprah, i'd rather be oprah. >> what about president oprah? she does, seriously, though, what does trump do that was so unconventional?

played the media in a different way than any politician who gets lts media better than oprah, you know? >> indeed she does. it certainly would be a fascinating election. if we thought this was a wild one. anyway. >> don't know how you beat this one. >> panel, thank you. president trump wants to slash the epa's budget. next my exclusive with two former chiefs of the epa. and the moment we won't forget. i have something to say "for the record." [ piercing sound ] daddy! lets play! sorry kids. feeling dead on your feet? i've been on my feet all day.

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president trump in his speech mentioning some issues close to the heart of environmentalists. it came during a section about specific areas where he's looking for bipartisan support. >> to invest in women's health and to promote clean air and clean water and to rebuild our military and our infrastructure. >> hours earlier in the day, the president signing an executive order aimed at rolling back an obama-era rule that expanded environmental regulators'

authority over waterways. president trump calling the rule a, quote, massive power grab. there are also reports his administration is looking to cut the budget of the epa. jina mccarthy was epa administrator under president obama from 2013 to 2017 and former new jersey governor christine todd whitman was president george w. bush's first epa administrator from 2000 to 2003. welcome to both of you and first to you, governor, are you in any way skeptical of the new epa add strait administrator, that he'll do the right thing? >> well, i'm fairly skeptical because it's not going to be up to him as jina well knows. as an administrator, you carry out the policies of the president. it's a little hard to figure out this president, though, he'll say one thing in one minute then find some member of his cabinet is doing something else which you have to believe is coming from him. so the signals are very mixed. i hope fervently that the kind of message that the add straiter gave t gave the other day to people who work at the agency, the career staff, where it was a pretty balanced approach, that's the

tone we're going to see, more respect for the mission aagency it does, about protecting human health and the environment. we don't want to lose that in an effort to ensure that regulation in place are the ones the administration wants, which it feels comfortable and any overreach has been addressed. >> administrator mccarthy, the statement that the epa a administrator brute said the other day, i think that's what the governor was referencing, was this. we as an agency and we as a nation can be both pro-energy and jobs and pro-environment. we don't have to choose between the two. now, scott pruitt as attorney general in the state of oklahoma was often at odds with the epa, even suing them. so what are your -- what's your level of confidence that he can do the right job as the epa administrator? >> well, i'm skeptical as well, and i agree with governor whitman that this is going to be a very difficult time for epa.

i think people have to realize that this budget proposal that is being put on the table would take the staffing levels at epa back to where they were 40 years ago. and it cuts the agency by a quarter in its overall budget. this is actually going to be devastating for the agencagency ability to protect public health. now, i understood that this administration was likely not supportive of climate initiatives but this is going to the heart of our air and water protections. this is going to the heart of our epa protects public health, american families. so you can turn your tap watter and expect to have clean drinking water, we can deal with kids who have asthma attacks and have cleaner air for them. this is about a bipartisan issue that was embraced 47 years ago when epa was established by richard nixon. this is really not just about climate anymore. this is an attack on the agency. we're talking about 42% of our

scientists potentially losing their jobs this year. not just one out of every five people in that agency. i mean, this is not just disagreeing with the science and wanting to deny it, this is telling half of the scientists that they're no longer welcome in the premier environmental science agency in the world, the environmental protection agency. >> governor, swwe have a short time left. i wonder what you think about the regulations, does it make sense to streamline some re regulation at the epa, have we gotten too many regulations? >> you can always take a look at the regulations and find that balance but have to remember this past administration was very active going through the regulatory route because they couldn't get anything through congress, and also the agency is required by law, as set up by the united states congress, to take certain actions to protect human health and the environment and that happens when you have a finding, let's say, of endangerle, as with carbon, which was set ld by the u.s.

supreme court. that was something then they had to take action. didn't have a choice. so got to remember that. this is, as gina said, that this is about protecting human health and the environment and our records show that we can do both. >> administrator mccarthy, if the new epa administrator gets in there, is there likely after talking to everybody, being in the environment that, you know, he'll have sort of -- he'll lean a little bit more toward your view of things? i mean, when you're inside doing the job, it sometimes looks a lot different than outside. >> i'm sorry. i'm having a little trouble hearing you. i can hear governor whitman a little bit better. let me embellish just a little bit. you know, since epa was around, we have reduced our air pollution 70% while the gdp has tripled. we are not talking here just about rulemaking. . we' we're talking about 38 programs being eliminated from epa, programs like our brown fields program which allows come t

contaminated sites to be rejuvenated and redeveloped, this is about the work of an agency as a whole, this is about assessing what toxics are in products so we can properly protect people. whether or not pesticides are making their way into the food you eat. these are fundamental public health protections that we have embraced. this is not about whether or not we're overregulating. this is about doing the right thing by science. using regulations that the law tells us to use as the science dictates. but also working with individuals to make sure that people understand the risks that they're under and can properly protect themselves as well. >> thank you, both, very much. i've got to take a quick break. thank you very much. and to viewers, don't go away because i want to show you something right after the break. what if technology gave us the power to turn this enemy into an ally? microsoft and its partners are using smart traps to capture mosquitoes and sequence their

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i want to say this "for the record." our brave men and women in uniform risk their lives every single day for us. when one dies in the line of duty, all our heartbreak break the entire nation mourns. last night when fallen navy s.e.a.l. william ryan owens and his widow, carryn owens, were singled off before a grateful and brokenhearted nation. >> ryan's legacy is etched into eternity. thank you.

all gold-star families across our nation should know we wish we could give them thanks, give this thanks to each one of them, but do consider this example of gratitude to this family as the message we would like to send all those who have sacrificed. often our presidents must speak for us citizens honoring fallen troops, it's the most solemn moment for any commander in chief and that powerful moment from president trump's speech last night joins a long list of presidential salutes to our brave men and women in uniform who could forget this iconic speech from president reagan on the 40th anniversary of dday? >> behind me is a memorial that symbolizes the range of daggers that was thrust to the top of these cliffs and before me are the men who put them there. these are the boys, these are

the men who took the cliffs. these are the champions who helped free a continent. these are the heroes who helped end a war. >> and no one understands veterans better than president george h.w. bush. during world war ii, president bush's plane was shot down over the pacific and that experience carried over into a deep appreciation and admiration for our troops. here he is on the 50th anniversary of pearl harbor. >> the men i speak of would be embarrassed to be called heroes. instead, they would tell you probably with defiance, foes can sink american ships, but not the american spirit. they may kill us, but never the ideals that made us proud to serve. >> and president bill clinton also showing his appreciation of the troops. here he is in november of 1998 in south korea celebrating a soldier's birthday. and here's what president clinton said about our military during his 1999 state of the

union address. >> we are the heirs of a legacy of bravery represented in every community in america by millions of our veterans. america's defenders today still stand ready at a moment's notice to go where comforts are few and dangers are many, to do what needs to be done as no one else can. they always come through for america. >> and our recent wartime presidents have made huge efforts to reach out to our military and their families. one of president george w. bush's most memorable moments is running with a staff sergeant who lost both his legs while serving in iraq. >> after a lot of hard work and a lot of compassionate care, this fine man is here on the south lawn running with the president. and he ran the president into the ground, i might add. but i'm proud of you.

>> thank you. >> froud proud of your strengthd of your character. thank you for your service. >> and during his time in the white house, president obama had many profound moments involving our troops. like when he met the caskets of soldiers killed in afghanistan when they returned home to dover air force base. or when he surprised military families at arlington national cemetery to personally pay his condolences. president obama's words on veter veter veterans' day in 2009 really hits the nail on the head. >> to our veterans, to the fallen, and to their families, there's no tribute, no commemoration, no praise, that can truly match the magnitude of your service and your sacrifice. >> yes, nothing can match the magnitude of the service and the sacrifice of our military men members and their families but i want them to know how much i appreciate them, how i wish i could give each and every one of them a standing ovation every single day and every american

feels that way. thank you for watching. i'll show you back here tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. hour to hour with donald trump. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews up in new york. in his first address to congress last night, president donald trump made a rare attempt to build a wider consensus around his economic nationalist agenda, taking a notably different approach in terms of his delivery and tone. while his policy proposals have not changed, he made several overtures to democrats whom he called upon to work together. >> solving these and so many other pressing problems will require us to work past the differences of party. if we are guided by the wellbeing of