tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC April 21, 2017 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
night at 6:00 p.m. eastern. i just posted another sort of special video on facebook, just my friday afternoon message to all of you because you're friends of mine on facebook. follow me on twitter @greta. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. i'll see you monday, 6:00 p.m. eastern. shattered. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. jack kennedy once said that victory has 100 fathers. defeat is an orphan. tonight we discuss the first detailed account of why hillary clinton, with first class mind, top drawer staff, and vast campaign wealth lost the 2016 presidential campaign. what went wrong with her second run for the white house? it's all in a new book called "shattered," which is how many of hillary clinton's supporters could feel after reading this book and reliving the hell of
november 2016 all over again. jonathan allen and amy parn, learned that the dysfunction, infighting and leaking that docked clinton's failed 2008 effort persisted again eight years later, writing the campaign was an unholy mess, fraught with tangled lines of authority, petty jealousies and distorted priorities. no one was in charge and no one figured out how to make the campaign bigger than hillary clinton. the most significant challenge was the candidate herself. the authors say, quote, what hillary couldn't quite see was no matter how she recast the supporting roles in this production orem fa sized different parts of the script, the main character hadn't changed. nor could the campaign see the
iceland of donald trump. their general election opponent came to them by surprise. >> with me, i ate had all of th rust belt states. i own states that -- i will get states that are unbelievable. that are unthinkable for the republican party. >> auththe authors join me now. when i saw that giant iceberg this morning, i go, this must have been what it was like when you're the hillary people. all these geniuses and all of a sudden this gigantic thing hits you on election night. how come they didn't spot it before, amy, this thing called trumpism? >> we have a scene in the book where she's actually wondering -- there was this rise of populism happening around her. she's talking to an adviser while flying on an airplane and saying i can't quite grassp
what's going on around me. it kind of foreshadowed what the general election would look like as well when she opposed trump. >> did you see it? did either of you see it? i talked about it on the show at the time. i got a record of that. but it was always like two-thirds of what i saw. i said nobody likes -- a lot of people don't like illegal immigration but nobody seems to like the loss of manufacturing base in this country and nobody likes all these stupid wars, so i thought he had the trifecta. but i did not see him winning in pennsylvania or the other states like that, but it was there. the iceberg was there. >> we talk about this in the introduction of the book. what we saw was what everybody else saw, was the polling showing her winning the presidency. we trusted the only data available. >> and in the states. >> right, in terms of what did we think on election day. that said, we'd done so much reporting going in that showed some of the flaws and smft weaknesses and some of the things that she was unable to do as a candidate, that the campaign was unable to do, that we actually didn't have to go back and change very much.
in fact, funny little side story -- >> did you see who was going to win ahead of time? in the electoral college? >> no. no. >> i remember interviewing -- i'm older than you guys. i interviewed carville before the campaign in '92 when they real really did pull a great campaign together. they put together a hell of a campaign. he said a campaign is about a big idea. that accent of his. was there a big idea to the hillary clinton campaign in 2016? >> no. that's the problem. she had been running for president for so long, at least ten years, and she still wasn't available to convince enough voters in the right places that she had a vision for the country, that one big idea under which everything else could be subsumed? >> what about the woman thing, the first woman president? i get the feeling she sort of ran on that the first time but seemed to hesitate campaigning on that argument. give the women of this country, the majority of people who vote a candidate who can be president. >> she actually didn't run on it
last time. >> i didn't think so. >> yeah, and kind of overcorrected this time and sought to do that. in our first book, we actually talk about that where she's kind of, you know, grappling with that at the end. >> so you believe she ran on gender to some extent in '08 but didn't do it in '16. >> she didn't do it in '08, and she did in '16. and she wanted to address that actually at the very end of the '08 campaign. she wanted to kind of correct it then, and she did for the 2016 campaign. she spoke to women. she tried to aim towards women. >> let's talk about the conditions again. my reference to the wild thing about icebergs showing up all of a sudden. did she know there was a difference between '08, the change in the cosmos, the zeitgeist if you will? the country was in a mood in '16. bernie did incredibly well. nobody could predict it. bernie said, you want to call me a fringe, a fringe. he came on with that brooklyn accent and everything and he just wowed everybody, especially young people. nobody saw that coming. on the other side, on the right,
i guess you'd call trump -- i'm not sure right even means trump. whatever that thing is out there, trump. that also surprised. >> but there was a harbinger for her in 2008 when she ran against barack obama, who ran as an outsider and lit up the grass roots against her. remember she was supposed to be the candidate that was nominated in 2008. she ran as a steady candidate that somebody who could get things done. >> 3:00 in the morning. >> right, again barack obama who was change. this time in 2016, she changed a lot of tactics but that big, sort of over arching message against bernie sanders she ended up winning, huge accomplishment. we talk about that in the book. but by the time she gets to donald trump, she's hemmed back into this place where she is being the status quo against a candidate of change in a change election. i think one of the lessons for future democratic candidates, republican candidates, people who watch the political process is the voters want to know what you're going to do for them that is different than what's going on right now. it's that one big idea you're talking about. >> the name of the book is -- by the way, i love this kind of
book. the beach is coming, but even before the beach comes this summer, you can buy this book and read it. it's called shattered. it's catnip. you write about robby mook's strategy starting in the primary. you say, he and his team were trying to keep the margin closer by turning out supporters in vote rich areas which often meant having to talk hillary and bill out of traveling away from the population centers to convert bernie fans. these decisions were guided by data analytics, and mook's dogmatic belief that it was better to focus on turning out supporters. instead of trying to get moderates or people on the left if you will, they said we're going to go to the regular clinton voters. >> and analytics was something that actually really angered bill clinton. he was saying, you know, i'm getting a different feel on the ground. he was reporting back to brooklyn and saying, something doesn't feel quite right. but they were so reliant on data and analytics that they were
kind of reporting something back to him. but he was always kind of sounding the alarm, raising the red flags, going this isn't quite right. >> did you notice that your anecdotal was different than the statistics? i kept getting it at the end. wait a minute. i keep hearing things that shouldn't be for trump and they are. this doesn't fit with the numbers we've been getting from the experts. >> that's what we found when we were reporting the book. for a long time, we had difficulty with this gap between the sort of stories that we were reporting and the fact that she was up in the polls, which is why we say -- you know, we expected her to win on election night. >> let's talk about the susquehanna hall in pennsylvania. the guy said if you poll with a real person on the phone, hillary won by eight. if you poll with a robocall, a recorded voice, trump won by three, which told me what i always thought, which is people weren't proud to be voting for trump when they're talking to some perfectly articulate person. this person will think i'm a racist if i say i'm for trump.
>> one of her advisers circulated a memo back in the spring that basically said, add a few points to each poll and predicted -- >> who is this person? >> we can't say. >> why can't you say? this person is the one hero of your book. this person said always add three points to trump. >> and that donald trump can win. >> why would this person want to stay secret? i want a genius here. >> chris, you're a wonderful interviewer, but we've got to hold back on the source. >> staff from the clinton campaign itself dispute the reporting in this book. i want to get the one fact they want to fight about. nick merrill, who is a respected guy, the press secretary for the campaign issued a statement saying president obama and secretary clinton spoke only once on election night, only once. 9 rest of that recounting is simply incorrect, which we told the authors. it's an indication whoever they were speaking to had no idea what they're talking about, but it was a nullable fact we made clear didn't happen. let's talk about that. how many times did hillary clinton talk to barack obama election night when she lost? >> twice. not only that, there's a call
that came in from david seemus, his political director to john podesta, right after john spoke on the stage. >> to robby mook. then there was an obama call to podesta. there were about four calls between the white house -- >> how many times did the candidates talk? >> two. >> for sure? >> yes. >> you stand by that? >> yes. >> so these people where -- why are they arguing about this one factoid? >> i can't explain their strategy. >> your voice is getting lower by the way. you're not betting it out there, john. you're shurz of this? >> absolutely. two calls. let me say this too. the story that we do here, the tick tock at the end of this campaign on election night, in the peninsula hotel, as she's finding out she's losing the presidency, is the time in this book and in reality where she is the most sympathetic throughout this entire campaign process. you really -- i mean as you read through this, you really get -- you get a fill for what she's going through. >> who's she blame personally.
>> comey and russia. >> and a little bit obama. >> not about her own people? she wasn't blaming mook or blaming podesta or anybody else? >> no, no, no. >> you also say that bill clinton was happy with mook's strategy, writing mook wanted bill in places where the most hillary inclined voters would see him. that meant talking to white liberals and minorities in cities and their close in suburbs. that was one fault line that separated old time political hustling from modern data driv vote collecting. i'm with the old time hustling. i think most candidates win because they go outside. you can't just go to the usual suspects. you can't just be walter mondale and rely on the unions to come in and the liberals to come in because it's never 50%. don't they know this? >> you would think. bill clinton's whole game in politics is persuading people who are on the fence or don't agree with him. >> he did it five or six times in arkansas, a conservative state. >> go out and talk to folks who don't agree with you and some will like you even if they don't
agree with you. tip o'neill said you've got to ask for votes. >> amy, how many times did i pound on this desk and say to hillary clinton, pick brown as your running mate. he's rust belt. he talks and looks a bit like that voter you're trying to get in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, ohio. pick him. don't pick the guy down from georgia who's got nothing to say to these people. >> i know. and she likes sherrod. >> why didn't she make the decision? give up that one senate seat and take the country. these are big decisions. you have to make them. >> you know, it's interesting. she wasn't very ex- sited by her list of candidates from what we report in the book. she wanted -- she kind of -- >> what stopped her really from picking the guy that would have won the election for her? >> fear, caution. >> i think so, caution. and the senate. >> jack kennedy picked lyndon johnson. >> to win. >> he just wanted to win. >> first win and then figure out what you do. >> back then they really thought they could win the senate. there was this whole debate about plucking him and --
>> great stuff. i think it's candy, this stuff. i mean i love this stuff. shattered. people buy these books. not only that, they're going to read them all the way through. >> we hope so. >> this is a book to pick up and read. the book is called shattered, inside hillary clinton's doomed campaign. thank you jonathan and amy. coming up now, this weekend's election in france is shaping up to be another fight between nationalism and globalism. far right versus somewhere in the center. now two american presidents, frump and obama, are jumping in, getting involved in this fight. anyway, the anti-immigration nationalist is getting trump behind him, and we can see the most eruptive election in years over there, very much like we just had here. plus freedom of speech on campus. u.c. berkeley, a public university, cancels a speech by ann coulter. they've since rescheduled. but the group that invited coulter is threatening to sue the college. and christian bales is here with us tonight. he plays a journalist in the new movie the promise, which bears witness to the armenian
genocide. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch for this friday night. this is "hardball," where the action is. hey, i've got the trend analysis. hey. hi. hi. you guys going to the company picnic this weekend? picnics are delightful. oh, wish we could. but we're stuck here catching up on claims. but we just compared historical claims to coverages. but we have those new audits. my natural language api can help us score those by noon. great. see you guys there. we would not miss it. watson, you gotta learn how to take a hint. i love to learn. what's the best way to get v8 or a fancy juice store?s? ready, go! hi, juice universe? one large rutabaga, with eggplant... done! that's not fair. glad i had a v8. the original way to fuel your day.
attorney general jeff sessions is being slammed for dismissing the state of hawaii. sessions was criticizing a federal district court ruling blocking the trump administration's muslim travel ban when he said this. >> i really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the pacific can issue an order that stops the president of the united states from what appears to be clearly his statutory and constitutional power. >> well, an island in the pacific. hawaii senators were quick to respond. democrat brian schatz tweeted, mr. attorney general, you voted for that judge, and that island is called oahu. it's my home. have some respect. and today sessions was asked about his comments in an interview on msnbc.
>> i wasn't diminishing the judge or the island of hawaii, that beautiful place. give me a break. i was just making the point that it's very real. one judge out of 700 has stopped the president of the united states from doing what he believes is necessary to protect our safety and security. >> and we'll be right back. like using glucerna to replace one meal or snack a day. glucerna products have up to 15 grams of protein to help manage hunger and carbsteady, unique blends of slow release carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes. every meal every craving. it's the choices you make when managing blood sugar that are the real victories. glucerna. everyday progress. at bp's cooper river plant, employees take safety personally - down to each piece of equipment, so they can protect their teammates and the surrounding wetlands, too. because safety is never being satisfied.
welcome back to "hardball." president trump tweeted earlier this morning about sunday's french election. that's this sunday, after yesterday's attack in paris, which isis claimed credit for. president trump had this to say. another terrorist attack in paris. the people of france will not take much more of this. we'll have a big everything on presidential election. he elaborated during an interview with the associated press saying the attack will help candidate marine le pen. according to the associated press, the president said he wasn't endorsing le pen, but he said she's the strongest on borders and she's the strongest
on what's been going on in france. whoever is the toughest on radical islamic trim, whoever is the toughest at the border will do best. why is the president inserting h himself into the campaign? jean bernard, i want you first, because you are french. >> thank you. >> is this a parallel election to our own from last year? is this a battle between the far right candidate, marine le pen, who opposes a lot of this immigration over there, basically blames it on the muslim community, the terrorism, and again a more moderate candidate against her? >> it's something that could be for the second round, for the runoff two weeks from now. depending on what happens on sunday, it's the same wave that pushed president trump here, that pushed brexit in britain, that is pushing marine le pen. that's for sure. anti-immigrant, anti-globalization, nationalism. that's for sure.
>> is it strong enough to win? trump won. at least he won in our electoral college. >> it could be strong enough to win especially because we had an attack two days before the first run. this definitely could help marine le pen being elected. why? because it could push her, because she's the strongest on borders. she's the most anti-muslim. it could help francois fillon. fillon is the conservative guy. he's not that bad. he's like sarkozy, but they could be together for the second round. and in this case, according to all the polls, he is the weakest against marine le pen. so this attack could in two weeks from now help her. >> so right against far right, far right wins? >> far right could win or right. or according to the polls before the attack, center. the surprise, this young guy, emmanuel macron, who is totally untest untested. >> what do you think about trump getting involved? i'm going to say at the end of
this show, i've always respected the french because when the british are with you, you say ho-hum, but when the french are with us, then you know you're right. the first gulf war, they were with us all the way. they were with us when we had missiles on cuba. it always seems to be a check. they're not easy to deal with all the time, but when they agree with you, you're right. that's my thinking. i've got a french guy here. >> who is agreeing with you. look, i think it's always dicey when an american president inserts himself into another country's election, another country's referendum. as we saw with president obama when he inserted himself into the brexit conversation just before -- >> it didn't help. >> no, it didn't help, but also he was criticized for that although he was criticized for everything that he did on the international stage. but with president trump, with his tweets, he can do the wink and nod if he wants to. oh, i didn't endorse marine le pen. but he said, as you read, she is the strongest on borders.
she's the strongest on immigration. >> he endorsed her. anyway, donald trump is not the only american president because former president obama talked on the phone to centrist candidate manuel macron yesterday. the presidt's spokesmand the call wasn't an endorsement. quote, president obama appreciated the opportunity to hear from macron about his campaign and the important upcoming presidential election in france. a country that president obama remains deeply committed to as a close ally of the united states. and as a leader on behalf of liberal values in europe and around the world. so we know what that means. barack obama, by our politics, is somewhat center left. he's not hard left by any means. he's center left, and he's endorsing a candidate who you say is centrist. >> and obama, still, he's extremely popular in france. probably over 120, his approval rating. he's still very popular. this could have a big impact on all of these undecided people who didn't know exactly where to go. and there are a lot of
undecided. that's why we're so uncertain about this election. >> you've had some great presidents. de gaulle. and mitterand. socialists don't like communists. we should teach people that every night. jonathan capehart, and jean bernard, thank you. up next, a red hot fight on free speech at berkeley. the university of california is reversing its decision now to cancel a speech by ann coulter, but coulter and the college republicans are fighting back. that's ahead here. this is "hardball," where the action is.
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a circuit breaker failed and caused a fire. at outage in new york caused subway delays today. the nation's civil engineers have given the u.s. power grid a grade of d-plus. dramatic new video from paris as a gunman is taken down after killing a police officer yesterday. the attacker spent 11 years in prison for another attempt to kill a police officer. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." in the 1960s, the university of california at berkeley birthed you might say the free speech movement when the school lifted a ban on on campus activities. today it's home to a modern day battle of free speech. it's swirling about whether or not ann coulter will deliver a scheduled speech on immigration set for april 27th to the berkeley college republicans. well, the university out there initially canceled coulter's speech citing, quote, grave concern of violence on campus. but the college chancellor
proposed an alternative date. coulter responded to that proposal last night on "hannity." >> you cannot impose arbitrary and harassing restrictions on the exercise of a constitutional right. i don't happen to be available on may 2nd. this is a form -- i mean it is anarchy when you are only enforcing the law in order to allow liberals to speak. >> well, coulter is vowing to speak on berkeley whether the school approves it or not. this comes in the wake of violent protests that led the college to cancel a scheduled spee speech. i'm joined by the "hardball" roundtable. ryan streeter. okay. let's go. margaret, because this makes the university look out of touch with a debate that was going to follow their decision, as if they didn't know canceling a
person who is within not the mainstream but definitely we're used to hearing her. and people do buy her books, and she does talk a lot and write a lot, and it's part of the conversation. and they say not here. it's not going to be part of the conversation here. >> and unlike trump rallies, we haven't seen violence at an ann coulter speech. >> yeah. >> you know, berkeley is the home of the protest, and certainly they know how to handle this. this is what happened -- >> this anti-fascist thing on the left followed by this right-wing thing, do you know what's going on with these groups because they're different? they don't go to school all day and go out and watch a speech at night. they're schooled in this kind of action. they're up for it. >> it's changed a lot in the last five years, and it's definitely gotten crazy now. i think that you've got a kind of crisis on the campuses. if this were just berkeley, i would say we have a unique kind of phenomenon, but this is happening in multiple places. >> who are these groups?
>> i don't think we know exactly who these groups are. but what we're finding out, some of these add administrators. our universities have really grown. they're people who help organize this or at least encourage it. i'll have some data on this for you in a couple months. >> there's money in this. she's getting paid. this isn't just the local republican club has asked you to come out as a kindness. she's getting a bundle for this. >> you do now. yeah, you get paid a lot now. look, i think that, you know, this generation, the younger generation, this actually goes back on campuses, on elite campuses anyway. interestingly, elite campuses, not really like land grant campuses. this goes back a number of years. >> what, the idea you can shut down -- >> yes. it's been happening for a while. jean kirkpatrick got blood flung on her, i think. i can't remember when that was. maybe in the '90s or something like that. they don't value free speech that much. they consider free speech to be kind of a bourgeois value, and
they're more interested in -- >> who are these people who think that? >> well, i don't know. just kids -- college kids on the left. >> what about the people our age or my age who run these colleges, who get paid because they're considered to be grown-ups and make judicious decisions based upon the principles the university is founded on, which is free thinking? argument, debate, left and right. that's how we do things here. that's why we come here, to here radical ideas exposed to us because we're not getting them at home. that's why we come to college. >> by the way, ann coulter is no mee low yiannopoulos. she's more mainstream than that. but college students, these kids today feel like they're flowers who will wilt under -- >> make your point because it's something called, i have to be safe from hate speech. >> yes, from opinions i don't agree with. it's hateful. >> why don't you just don't go? the best way to blow away somebody like ann coulter is don't say a word about it. don't show up.
let her bore herself to death. the roundtable is sticking with us. they're going to come back as trump gets nervous about his first 100 days of office. we're going to go after trump when we come back. you're watching "hardball," where the action is. bp uses flir cameras - a new thermal imagining technology - to inspect difficult-to-reach pipelines, so we can detect leaks before humans can see them.
well, it's arrived. welcome back to "hardball." next start will be the 100th day of president trump's administration. and all of next week, in fact, we at "hardball" will be profiling the biggest challenges the president has faced in the past three months from russia to health care. today the president in an early morning tweet tried to tamp down expectations by tweeting, no matter how much i accomplish during the ridiculous standard of the first 100 days, and it has been a lot, including supreme court, media will kill. it's a shift from his campaign rhetoric of course when he frequently touted his first 100 days and how much he would accomplish. >> just think about what we can accomplish in the first 100 days of a trump administration. we're going to have the biggest
tax cut since ronald reagan, even bigger. >> you're going to have such great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost, and it's going to be so easy. >> so we're going to build a wall. it will be a great wall. mexico's going to pay for the wall. >> in his speech back in october of 2016, not a million years ago, then candidate trump rolled out a 100-day action plan to make america great again. here's what he pledged. >> on november 8th, americans will be voting for this 100-day plan to restore prosperity to our country, secure our communities, and honesty to our government. this is my pledge to you. >> we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. remember those cat chism books we had about jesus putting his hands up. he does it just like he's god. where did he learn that? anyway, margaret carlson, ryan streeter, michael da mass
kopecky. a lot of beasties here. let me ask you. give him a report card. what do you think of trump's first 100 days so far. >> an ungentlemanly sea, how is that? you notice how he says everything is so easy like a 6-year-old who adds two and two. that's so easy. then he comes in and says, gosh, it's complicated this health care business. everything is a little more complicated than he thought, and he can't keep anything straight. and his cabinet doesn't agree with him much of the time. and he thinks an armada is going to north korea when it's going in the opposite direction. and it's really quite a lack of accomplishment. he moved it today, the goal post, to 90 days. did you hear that? in 90 days, which is now his measurement, he's accomplished more than any other president ever. >> i guess if you spent your entire adult life studying zoning variances and deeds, i mean he's had a very narrow education, i can tell you. you can tell. he makes no historic references. not even movie references. he makes no references except to
himself. that's his reference point. you don't learn much that way. your thoughts. >> i would say he was for the 100-day measure before he was against it. >> you mean the ridiculous thing he calls it today. >> i would go with a c by his own standards. they put out their 100-day plan. they got a lot of the executive order work. if you actually go look at what they'd said they'd do in the first 100 days, through executive door, through the congressional review act, they managed to pull back some of these regulations, but they have about ten pieces of legislation in there as well. i think really the problem for them going forward is not just the past 100 days but it's the actual policy objectives that they have agreement on within the administration about what success looks like on jobs, on tax reform, on health care. and that's where i think their biggest trouble is right now is not just whether or not they've been organized the first 100 days, but going forward are they going to -- >> how about an f? i would suggest before you get there, no health care, no tax reform, nada on legislation.
nothing. the only way they got gorsuch through is breaking the rules. so nothing. that would be a report. your thoughts? >> nothing. okay. i'll go d because -- >> what do you give him a d for? >> because we're not in a depression and we're not at war yet. that health care thing was a complete disaster. it was a bigger disaster for paul ryan than for trump, but it was a disaster for trump too. let's not forget this central fact. the president of the united states and his campaign are under investigation by the fbi. that's a pretty big boulder that you can't move out of the room. >> well, late this week, innocence learned house republicans were in talks to resurrect a bill that would repeal the affordable care act. quote, a frantic and impatient white house is pressuring house gop leaders for another showdown on repealing obamacare next week so it can notch a legislative win before president trump's first 100 days in office. today president trump was asked about it. here's what he said.
>> we'll see what happens. no particular rush, but we'll see what happens. but health care is coming along well. the government is coming along really well. a lot of good things are happening. thank you, folks. >> you're going to get a health care bill next week? >> it doesn't matter if it's next week. next week doesn't matter. >> that was sort of reaganesque. remember this thing at the ear? i barely hear you through the helicopter blades. you can talk to him as a walks at a 45 degree angle away from you. somebody got that press opportunity. what did he just say there? >> nothing, you know. the next week is going to be great, but it doesn't really matter anyway. he's now actually adopting the 100-day thing because he wants to get that health care thing through. >> he's fickle. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball," where the action is. simpler for you. like, imagine having your vehicle serviced... from the comfort of your own home.
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bp developed new, industry-leading software to monitor drilling operations in real-time, so our engineers can solve problems with the most precise data at their fingertips. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. margaret, tell me something i don't know. when did i first meet you? 1980. >> yeah. >> you cooked a meal for our -- >> rehearsal dinner. that's how long i've known her. >> more than 30 years ago. so i just learned this, that lisa bloom, who represented o'reilly's accusers, is the daughter of gloria allred, who represents one of the accusers whose case is coming up may 17th in which donald trump is saying he has immunity. but she says jones v. clinton, no immunity. it's only for your public acts,
not your personal ones. that case is going forward. >> trump's going to have to answer for it? >> yes. >> go ahead. >> you know there's a skills gap. there's about 5.5 million jobs every month that don't go filled. we know jobs are outpacing where people are trained. what you don't know is innovative states are going to fix this problem before we figure it out in washington, d.c. there's new data analytics in states like texas, colorado are using that are allowing employers to find people, allowing students to understand what the price premiere for certain skills will be. i think we're going to see more matching over the next ten years. >> people are going to take courses to allow them to get a job. >> yes. >> makes sense. >> government shut down. it's probably not going to be next week. they're going to pass a one-week thing to put it off for one week. the trump administration pushing hard for the money for the wall and the money for their deportation force and the democrats aren't going to have it. republicans are nervous too. >> they got to get all republicans because no democrats voting for that wall. no mexican is either.
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to help you tailor treatment options for the patient's genomic profile. you can do that? even way out here? yes. even way out here. i'm not safe. no one here is safe. don't you see what's happening? >> i've lived through these turkish threats before. >> threats? they want us dead. i have to get us out of here before there's no time left. trust me. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was a clip from the upcoming film "the promise" starring oscar isaac as an armenian medical student whose life is upturned by world war i. and christian bale playing a journalist reporting on the armenian genocide. let's watch. >> i'm commander of this region. what is the associated press doing here?
>> reporting on the war. >> there is no war here. merely the evacuation of the civilian population to a safer region. a turkish official, a man of unshakeable humanity and courage, informed us that a general notorious for barbarism has been instructed by the highest of authorities to spare no village. are these words your fabrications or the words of some lying turkish traitor? prove to me that you did not fabricate these words. give me the name of the high-ranking turkish official. i will confirm he gave you this information and release you. >> uh, no. >> well, the movie will be in the theaters on friday this week, and draws attention to the mass killing and deportation of over a million armenians in the
ottoman empire during world war i. turkey, by the way, denies the genocide. joining me right now is christian bale, who starred in movies like the dark knight rises, the fighter, and american hustle, a great movie. oscar isaac is known for his role in star wars, the force awakens. and my friend john prendergast is the co-founder of the enough project, which seeks to end genocide. mr. bale, thank you for joining us. i want to ask you what attracted you to a movie about something that so few americans are even aware of? >> just that fact actually. i was really embarrassed to admit i wasn't aware of it either. 1.5 million people slaughtered and i was learning about it like many americans and people around the world probably were when it was approaching the 100th anniversary. as i was reading the script, i was watching on the news, the yazidis who have been slaughtered, and thinking how tragically relevant this still is today. >> john, my friend, what's the story here? tell me about the armenian
holocaust. i know it was a big issue in congress when i worked there. the lobbyists worked like hell for the turkish government to keep in quiet. why did they want to keep it quiet? >> i think it's the biggest stain on turkey's conscience and turkey's history. the beginning of the world war i, the ottoman empire at the time felt that the armenian population was siding with the russians and decided as a measure to destroy the fifth column, let's just exterminate the armenian population. and through massacres of the men, through mass rape of the women and through these death marches into the syrian deserts, they accomplished their goal for the most part. >> why is it so quiet that christians and people like me -- i know it from politics. people talk about the holocaust in world war ii you don't hear much abouthe world war i holocaust. >> the wor genocide wasn't even created when this happened -- began in 1915 in turkey, in
modern-day turkey. so we didn't have a word for it. there wasn't any concept that focused on the idea that a population could be annihilated, could be exterminated on the basis of their dienidentity, ins case, their religion. >> let me go to oscar. the importance of this story to you. >> likewise i didn't know anything about it when i first got the script. as i read it and was horrified and educated about it and learned about it, i just felt like it was an incredibly important thing to do. and then to now, you know, be releasing the movie and to know that 100% of the proceeds of the film go to charity, to humanitarian causes, to creating the ucla promise institute, which, you know, is incredible. i think they just got a gift of $20 million. to be a part of something like that is -- it's incredible. >> christian, let me ask you about today in journalism. you know, trump spends his hours, his minutes, his tweets
at dawn attacking the mainstream media. i mean the real media, not opinion, opinion. but news people. trashing the major journalists in this country. what do you think it says about the need for journalism in crisis moments like this holocaust you covered in the movie? >> there's no more urgency for it. that became relevant during the filming and after, this sort of post-truth era. you know, i think hopefully it will inspire incredible journalism because people will start to recognize how important it is, a free press is to a democracy. the fact that with the armenian genocide, there was so little documentation because they restricted access by journalists. it was illegal to take photographs. it was a german photographer who got most of the documentation out there. despite the fact there were many u.s. missionaries whose accounts
corroborated each other about the genocide, there were no real consequences afterwards. and the tragic thing is that may well have provoked the numerous genocides we've seen since then with ukraine and with the holocaust and with rwanda and with yazidis as i was talking about. the question is what can be done? like oscar says there's a fantastic philanthropic move, to give 100% of the proceeds to charity. but now please over to john, and he's not a used car salesman like me just kind of flogging a film. he's really out there making change in the world. what can be done by people watching? >> john, tall ell me about the holocaust in our recent history? >> i think in iraq, we have the yazidis. we have south sudan now, which is the world's next genocide potentially. and in sudan, in darfur.
the issue really is what can be done as christian said? in a lot of cases we're not going to send in the 82nd airborne, but what we can do is take a chapter from the counterterrorism efforts. there is an credibly exhaustive effort to chase the assets of terrorist networks. we could do the same thing with folks that are war criminals who are committing atrocities, who are moving all their finances into the international system. they're stealing the wealth of these countries. in armenia, it was the same thing. they stole the wealth of the armenians. it wasn't just a political move. it was also a financial one. a massive asset transfer. in all of these genocides, you see the same thing. people steal the wealth of those that are victimized and they put it in the international financial system. that's a vulnerability of those people and we don't go after it. i think that's the next frontier. >> oscar, i'm familiar a little bit like we all were with hoe tale rwanda, which pointed to the actual genocide that was going on in rwanda. and i was thinking this is different than shooting at the other guy across a field or something or from a trench to
another trench. you're shooting at another people and trying to kill them because they are that other people, not because they're warriors. >> yeah, and you hear -- it's unfortunate that you hear a lot of similar kind of word usage nowadays. the thing that turkey did at the time, it said, now it's turkey for the turks. and they decided that these ethnic minorities were the enemy. they were others. they were not entitled to the same citizenship as the turks at the time. and you hear similar rhetoric nowadays. >> you sure do. >> it's a strange thing to see happen again and again and again. >> christian bale, i have a question for you because i've become something of a student of a guy you're going to have to study to play, and that's dick cheney. that's his family name. he doesn't care if we call him chainy. how are you getting ready for that? he's sort of an interesting guy. he's not one of my best heroes. what do you make of him? >> look at that. spitting image. >> no, but you can do any accent. you can do wyoming accent.
>> we're not sure yet. we're trying to decide do we make a film about dick cheney or lon cheney. >> i think the original lon cheney, but lon cheney jr. get the real bad guy. i don't wish you well with that character, but it will be a lot of fun playing the villain. it always is. thank you, sir. >> thank you very much. >> the movie is called the promise. it's coming out friday in area theaters. christian bale, great guy. thank you. >> oscar about to become a dad. >> congratulations. that's another role, the real one. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball," where the action is. liberty mutual stood with me
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trump watch, friday, april 21st, 2017. all eyes are on france this weekend as the people of the fifth republic vote for president. for obvious reasons, our president has engaged in this contest. he's taken sides with marine le pen, the hard right candidate taking a tough line on immigration from north africa. president obama's also gotten involved in the french voting, making nice comments about the centrist candidate emmanuel macron. i would think it better for us americans to stay out. the french and us are great, vibrant democracies. i love the country. i also think it's up to them who to elect their president. why we may be interested in who wins, it's not really our business to tell them how to vote. i will say this, whenever we americans take a foreign policy action, we can pretty much count on the british being with us. we have no reason to expect the same confidence when it comes to the french.
that said, it's my experience that when they do, the french do agree with us, it's a sign we're right. i trust them to make the right decision on whom to lead them. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> just think about what we can accomplish in the first 100 days of a trump administration. >> what a difference a hundred days makes. >> this morning on his 92nd day in office, the president tweeted that the 100-day mark is a, quote, ridiculous standard. >> tonight a panicked white house now trying to hold health care hostage to pay for the border wall. who's going to pay for it? >> mexico! then as the house russia investigation gets back on track, david cay johnston on new concerns over who is buying trump condos and what that gets them in return. plus why the white house is taking shots