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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  April 27, 2017 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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tying these things together. this is the kind of flashing red light follow the money thing now it's time for "the last word" with the great lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> there is no great moment in the history of the modern presidency where something like this would not have already been deeply investigated. it would be the suggest of an ongoing investigation by this time. >> yes, exactly. >> just astonishing. >> and the one thing that congress likes to look into, ever since watergate is money. and on this it's like 40th on the list. maybe we'll get to it. >> so rachel, you broke the news tonight about donald tmp's statement about north korea which i'm holding in my hand. >> yeah. >> and it's got to be the most
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explosive thing he has said as president. there is a chance we could end up having a major, major conflict with north korea absolutely. we're going to go into this during this hour with reaction to that. >> good. >> but it is a stunning statement from an american president. >> it's a stunning statement for my american public official. but for the president to have thrown that line up before hitting the button on his desk to order a coke, it's worrying stuff. i'm glad you're on it, my friend. >> thanks, rachel. >> thanks, lawrence. >> michael isikoff is going to join us tonight. he did an interview with michael flynn last summer, which is now crucial, absolutely crucial to an inspector general's investigation of michael flynn. and the fbi's investigation of general flynn. as i said, we'll also have reaction to what president trump had to say tonight about north korea and much more. >> the white house is covering up for michael flynn. i don't get it.
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>> i think we have complied with every document they have looked for. >> come on, man. >> the pentagon's top watchdog has now launched an investigation into flynn. >> he took money from a foreign government without having permission, having been warned. >> the pentagon's warning to general flynn was bold, it tall sized and could not have been clearer. >> investigators want to know why are you hiding this information? have you been compromised? >> are you satisfied with the vetting that was done with general flynn? >> all of that clearance was made during the obama administration. >> that doesn't make any sense. >> sure it does. >> it was the trump administration's responsibility to vet this guy. >> the evidence that general flynn had poor judgment was publicly available. >> lock her up. that's right. that's right. lock her up. damn rht. >> some people may argue was the white house incompetent? i thk they just didn't care. >> general flynn is a wonderful man. >> if i did atenth, a tenth of
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what she did, i would be in jail today. >> exactly two months to the day after he retired from the army, former lieutenant general michael flynn received a very important letter that he had been waiting for. it was a reply to a letter that he sent about his own future. he wanted to know exactly how he could legally make money in his retirement. and he knew that there are some legal restrictions on people in his position. federal law imposes lifetime bans for certain activities for former general. they have two-year bans for other activities. one-year bans for some activities. one of the ways that general flynn hoped to make money was on the lecture circuit. you can go to lecture websites right now and see former generals offering their lecture services at prices that specify whether it's an east coast event, a west coast event, a european event, an asian event. the prices go up and up and up
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the farther you get away from that home base of that retired general. it's not something that every retired general does, but it's a very common source of income, especially for people who have had high profile government positions like michael flynn. and so when that six-page letter arrived on october 8th, 2014, telling michael flynn exactly what he could do and couldn't do, the map of his future earnings was laid out right here in this letter. in front of him, it was very clear. it's easy to read. each section is numbered there are some minor redactions in the letter that congressman elijah cummings released today. but section 6 is untouched by the redactions, and very clear. it is entitled "foreign compensation requires advanced approval."
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let me just read that again. the title of section 6, foreign compensation requires advanced approval. there is nothing in the letter that is easier to understand than section 6. and so when michael flynn read section 6, it was probably telling him something that he already knew. quote, the emoluments clause of the u.s. constitution, article i, section 9, clause 8, as interpreted in comptroller general opinions and by the department of justice office of legal counsel prohibits receipt of consulting fees, gifts, travel expenses, honoraria, or salary by all retired military personnel, officer and enlisted, regular and reserve from a foreign government. the italics focus the eye. prohibits receipt of consulting fees by all retired personnel from a foreign government.
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that is the only line in this six-page letter that has italics. the only one. it is italicized because everyone in washington knows the lecture circuit is the first place where people like michael flynn want to go as soon as they're retired. and they know that foreign governments directly or through agencies of theirs are very big buyers on the international lecture circuit. if you give a lecture in saudi arabia, no matter what it says in the check, there is a very, very high likelihood that the government of saudi arabia, the royal family of saudi arabia is paying for that lecture. and that is prohibited by law for any retired military personnel. whether it be a general or the lowest ranking private.
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one year. on aer michael fly gets this letter that italicizes the prohibition against receiving fees, gifts, travel experience honoraria from a foreign government, michael flynn accepts a speaking engagement in russia. so tonight michael flynn's life sat a legal crossroads. is he on his way to a future as a convicted criminal? or a more pleasant retirement outside of the world of politics? it all depends on whether he can prove that he obtained permission to give that speech in russia for which he was paid $45,000. today congressman elijah cummings revealed that the department of the inspector general is investigating whether michael flynn failed to get permission to receive that payment for that speech in russia. as of now, congressman cummings
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and the republican chairman of the house oversight committee jason chaffetz agree that they can find no evidence that michael flynn complied with the law and obtained that permission. michael flynn committed a crime if he ignored the sentence that appears just below the italics in this letter that he received, explaining how he could legally earn income. and that sentence says if you are ever in a position where you would receive an emolument from a foreign government or from an entity that might, might with controlled by a foreign government, be sure to obtain advance approval from the army prior to acceptance. might be controlled. obtain advanced approval. michael isikoff asked michael flynn about that speech at the republican national convention.
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>> my intent for speaking at that event was -- and they allowed me to do it -- was to talk about russia's influence over iran and to essentially tell russia that they have got to get iran out of the situations, plural, that they are involved in the region. because until we can -- until we can settle this situation down, until we can put this fire down. we're not going to put it out. until we can settle it down little bit, iran has got to back out of many of the things that they're doing. >> one of the first things he said in that answer was they allow node do it. presumably, that means he got that permission that this letter says he should get. but there is no evidence of that yet. now, when you listen to general flynn's answer to what michael isikoff asks him next, remember what he read in this letter. michael isikoff asks him were
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you paid for that event? and now remember, as you listen to the answer, that he received this letter saying if you are ever in a position where you would rove an emolument from a foreign government or from an entity that might be control bade foreign government, be sure to obtain advance approval from the army prior to acceptance. so an invitation like that speaking invitation in russia is something that michael flynn has to take very seriously. he has to know who is paying him. he has to. he has to know how much he is being paid. listen to this answer. >> were you paid for that event? >> you'd have to ask my -- the folks that i went over there -- >> no, i'm asking you. you would know if you were paid. >> yeah, i went over there as a speaking event. it was a speaking event. what difference does that make? oh, he is paid by the russians? >> well, donald trump has made a lot of the fact that hillary clinton has taken money from wall street.
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>> i didn't take any money from russia, if that's what you're asking me. >> well, then who paid you? >> my speakers bureau. ask them. >> credibility. that is what's at stake here. michael flynn's credibility. it's all about credibility. and the answer you just heard, who paid you. you have to believe in the answer that michael flynn just gave that he didn't know who paid him. he is going to have to do much better in his answer for the inspector general's investigation. and he is going to have to have an even better answer for the fbi. if the inspector general suspects that a crime has been committed, all the inspector general can do is refer the case to the justice department. but michael flynn's already being investigated by the justice department. the fbi director confirmed that when he said that the fbi is investigating the trump campaign's connections to russian and the trump transition team's connection to russia.
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when the fbi asks michael flynn who paid him, he will risk perjury charges if every word of his answer is not true. joining us now are tim mak, senior correspondent for the daily beast, miikka ouyang and the national security program at the third way. michael isikoff, chief investigative reporter for yahoo news. michael isikoff, your interview now is the single best exhibit we have of what this investigation is about. and there early in his response to you about the russia speech, he says they let me do it. >> yeah. actually, though, i interpreted that as he was saying the russians allowed him to talk about the role of iran and their associations. i don't know that he was saying to me that the defense
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department let him give this speech. so that is an open question. but the remarkable thing is it was all right there in july of 2016. exactly the issue that has come back to haunt michael flynn. now what happened is at some point, the house oversight committee reviewed that interview, and flynn's answer ask them, the speakers bureau, and they did. and they got the documents that clearly showed that the money was paid by rt, the russian government-funded television network. in fact, rt in e-mails reached out to him directly. so there was never any question about where the money was coming from. the important thing is at least in this case, the house committee followed up aggressively got the documents, then went to the defense department, and got the documents showing that he never disclosed those payments.
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and that's where the issue stands. it would be good if some of the other committees that are central to this investigation showed half the investigative fervor that the house oversight committee showed. >> tim mak, what about that? what are the other committees pursuing? and what about that question of where do we get the answer to did michael flynn have permission to do this? where does that answer reside? >> firstly, the chairman of the senate intelligence committee has spoke to reporters today. he said that he doesn't think that it's within his committee's purview to review this particular question. he thinks it's the pentagon's responsibility to do it. even though the senate intelligence committee's investigation not only looks at russia's role in interfering with the u.s. election, it also looks at any particular ties between or possible ties between the russian government and the trump orbit. so you would think that this would be part of it.
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but the chairman has already come out and said within, you know, 12 hours of us learning about these latest development police the flynnasansaid hey, that's not part of what wee going to be investigating. as far as -- >> go ahead. >> as far as flynn is concerned, as far as flynn is concerned, he has said and his lawyer has said, look, general flynn informed the pentagon, informed the military that he was going to go and make the speech. now he is going to have to prove that he has informed them and prove that he has asked for permission. >> to the point of chairman burr saying this is the inspector general's job, he is right about that. and the inspector general is well empowered to find out whether or not michael flynn had that permission. and as we saw with the inspector general's investigation of hillary clinton's e-mail at the state department, they -- the inspector general made his report public. >> that's right. and i think that chairman burr is wrong that it's not entirely in his committee's purview. let's not forget general flynn
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was the head of an american intelligence service before he left to join the trump campaign. so chairman burr should be very interested what the head of an intelligence service has been up to. >> listen to what elijah cummings said today about the white house response to this and the investigation's interest in getting help from the white house. >> i honestly do not understand why the white house is covering up for michael flynn. i don't get it. after the president fired him for lying. >> these guys are playing games. and when you see mr. spicer, you can tell him i said that today. they're playing games. they have told us they have documents. and then they said executive privilege. and then they said some of them are before the inauguration. the republicans are not helping us. you got to understand that. they are not helping. we cannot come to a conclusion here and get the documents, then they'll have to be subpoenas.
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>> michael isikoff, where is this heading? >> well, first of all, glen fine, the acting defense department inspector general is one of the most exrice widely respected inspectors general in the government. he was for years at the justice department. did lots of hard-hitting reports. he knows how to do serious investigations. and i would be surprised. based on the evidence that we have now, i would be very surprised if this did not end up in at least a criminal referral to the justice department, saying, look, even if fine doesn't reach the conclusion a crime was committed, there is enough prima fascia evidence. and jason chaffetz on his kurt clearance form in january 2016 when asked directly about whether he took payments from a foreign government, he just checked off no. okay.
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so if in fact he did that, and we haven't seen the document, but if he did that, there is grounds at least to make a referral to the justice department. and then it will be up to the justice department jeff sessions is recused. rob rosenstein was confirmed today as deputy attorney general. he is also a widely respected veteran prosecutor. in some respects this is the most serious development yet in all the investigations that we've been talking about into trump russia ties. where it goes, what it adds up to, what flynn might ultimately have to say if given immunity, if he tries to strike a deal, we just don't know. but this is a really major development today. >> mieke, in your experience in filling out those forms where it asks a question like have you received any payments from a foreign government, if general flynn fills out the form in his mind honestly, checking no, because he's thinking i got a payment from russian television, not from the russian government. and it may be that others
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believe that that money is indirectly from the russian government, does that -- is that -- would that be considered a reasonable answer in those disclosure forms, or are they filled thought the spirit that this kind of separation letter has for him where it says to him if it might, if it might come from a foreign government, if there is any possibility of that, you must check with us, even if you're not sure that it comes from a foreign government. that the spirit of those disclosure forms? he does investigations or did with dia into russian plans, intentions and capabilities. he know what's the connections are between rt and the government, it's part of their propaganda arm.
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it's just inconceivable that he could say oh, oh, i didn't know. i forgot, or it was just the speaker's bureau. those are not credible answers in these circumstances. now the question is what the penalty. usually when the general does this, it is a oversight. they withhold their retired pay until they pay back the money. i don't know what happens when you an intentional violation like this. flynn has been warned. when he knows what is at stake and he still goes ahead and does it. >> tim mak, is there now on this issue, on this particular pursuit of the michael flynn speaking fee issue, is there a partisan divide in the investigations? >> well, not on house oversight as far as we can tell. earlier this week there did seem to be bipartisanship in terms of coming together and saying this is important, pay attention to this. but in the other investigations, there is a bit more of a divide. i don't know if it's
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bipartisanship that is the cause, but there does seem to be a bipartisan effect, which is, you know, folks on the senate intelligence committee talked to senator wyden today. and he said look, this latest flynn revelation means that we should be following the money. the money trail is one of the most important parts of the ruia inqui. we're not doing it. and this shows why he we should should be doing it. >> tim mak gets the last word tonight. mieke ouyang, michael isikoff, thank you. more what trump said in haze interview about north korea and his relationship with china's president. michael will also joins us. biggest defender on fox news could be in trouble. gabe sherman, who wrote the book on fox news will join us.
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we have breaking news.
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house republican majority leader kevin mccarthy's office has just announced that there will not be a vote on the republican health care repeal bill this week. that is breaking news that i have been telling you for weeks. so it was very hard for me to keep my breaking news straight faced to pretend this is breaking news. it's all been a stunt, every minute of it, this fake revival attempt in the media. they wanted the media to fall for, that there was something still going on with the health care bill. it was never real. but i did my best on delivering the breaking news that they're not going to have a vote like i told you. they're not going to have a vote for the last few weeks. we'll be right back.
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the single point of agreement among donald trump, bernie sanders and hillary clinton as presidential candidates was that nafta was a bad thing. but no one was more mean to nafta than donald trump. >> by the way, nafta is the worst trade deal ever made in the history, not of this country, but of the world. >> the world. and last night, the white house announced president trump agreed not to terminate nafta at this time. this of course brings back those easy to summon memories of china being a currency manipulator. >> i'm going to instruct my treasury secretary to label china a currency manipulator, the greatest in the world. >> and then of course after the president of china instructed donald trump that china is not a currency manipulator, president trump told the financial times they're not currency manipulators.
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in his recent column, george f. will writes about these and other vows from the man whose supporters said he tells it like it is, he now tells them never mind. ining us now, george f. will, pulitzer prize winning journalist for "the washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. george, the latest breaking news reversal tonight is of course that there won't in fact be a vote on repealing and replacing obamacare this week in the house of representatives. i personally believe there was never going to be one. but we will now complete the 100 days without any, anything that resembles the delivery on that promise to get rid of obamacare. >> well, you know the old rule in litigation is in the courtroom you never ask a question unless you know the answer you're going get. and the analog is in the house of representatives or the senate
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you do it to confirm your vote count. don't put something to a vote until you know what the vote is going to be. you don't do it to find out the vote. you do it to confirm your vote count. and what this tells us is they don't have the votes. and what i think this means is as they gain support from the conservative freedom caucuses, they begin to hemorrhage support from the more moderate republicans. so it's almost a wash. and they're right back where they started. >> george, if you're looking at trump presidency accomplishments now, at the end of 100 days, what do we have? you wrote a great column what they don't have. what do they have in their list? >> well, they have the continuing support of 98% i believe the poll showed, 98% of those who voted for him are happy with what he is doing, which indicates that really what they voted for was a persona, a kind of gestalt thumb in the eye big chested alpha male, and they've got that.
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and the details to follow and details don't matter very much. but i think he knew that. remember, the emblematic moment perhaps of the campaign is when he said i could go out in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and it wouldn't make any difference. and he said it with a kind of ingenuousness and surprise. he was marveling himself at the nature of his own supporters. from that he learned a lesson, which is he is completely without inhibition from his constituency, because they have given him a pass. >> but it seems that most members of congress don't believe that they also have that pass. and so when it comes to the trump agenda, the riskier aspects of it for them politically just represent a risk they're not willing to take for prumplt president trump. >> well, the risk is to go into the 2018 elections without having fulfilled the great promise of the 2016, '14, and
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'12 elections which is to repeal obamacare. what that means is they have to deal with the question asked by a member of the freedom caucus today that is mr. massey, a libertarian from kentucky. in the house of representatives. he said we're now talking about granting waivers to the states. waivers from what, he asked? well, waivers from obamacare. so if we're granting waivers, we're clearly not repealing that we're granting waivers from. so they're caught in a it will of a logical cleft stick here. >> what about the obamacare repeal, george? it turns out that the trump voter really isn't that concerned whether you label china a currency manipulator or not, it really isn't that concerned what you do about nafta. is there anything? why would the we then think the obamacare voter is important to the voter? >> i guess the question is if there a cumulative critical mass of impotence out of the white house that begins to call into
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the question the very idea that they have elected an alpha male president that if after a while the man who says i have mastered the art of the deal and therefore should be president finds that he is not making deals, at some point you have to assume, at some point people say wait a minute, maybe we were taken. >> maybe in trump's words they will get tired of winning. george will, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. coming up, you'll hear from some trump voters on the first 100 days. also, more on what the president had to say tonight about north korea. with this level of engineering... it's a performance machine. with this degree of intelligence... it's a supercomputer. with this grade of protection...
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in his first 100 day, president trump has made little progress on many of his promises that helped him get elected. one reason the president has backed away from several key campaign promises, now some trump voters are no longer giving him pass. nbc's nicolle wallace talked to a life-long michigan democrat who voted for donald trump because of his america first policy. >> i think he is just going to put more people at danger now. we're going invade another country there is no way around it.
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the way he is acting right now, it's going happen. there is going to be boots on the ground. it's one of the reasons i voted for him. stop trying to kill people in other countries. fix america. america first, donald. which camera? america first, donald. not syria. not anybody else. america. >> that's what he promise you'd? >> that's what he promised me. and he is not doing that. >> another policy that some trump voters are questioning is >> must be a tough day for that voter. lis smith and rick wilson are joining us tonight. lis smith, democratic strategist. rick wilson, a republican strategist. liz, so nafta is going to -- that voter -- i'm just wondering when that voter's deadline is on donald trump doing something about nafta.
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is it the 2018 election? is it the 2020 election? >> look, nafta has been a sticky issue for previous presidents, president obama included. but i think there is a new slash for this voter. one, prosecutions break their promises. and two, that voter had to have been in a coma during the 2016 election to not know that donald trump is extremely, extremely flexible on everything. this is a guy who came out in support of single payer health care and then said he was going to fully repeal obamacare on day one. this is a guy who said we need to reinstate glass-steagall and get tough on wall street and we will fully repeal dodd/frank. so look, the only thing that is consistent about donald trump is his inconsistency. and some voters clearly are wising up to it. but so far we're seeing that most of them are sticking with him. >> so politico arlen titled "the education of donald trump" says more than 200 of trump's campaign promises are scribbled
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in marker on a white board in steve bannon's west wing office. other pledges are print and taped beneath a poster that says "make america great again." a few have large checkmarks next to them. another sign notes 11 have been delayed. so rick, i assume one of the checkmarks is appoint the supreme court justice. i can not guess what the other ones are. >> you know, i think the big thing that we're learning and that trump voters, if they could actually process cognitive dissonance, why be burning in agony right now because they were promised something by a guy who is a pathological liar, who is a serial fabulist. who is a master of the bs tornado. and he'll say anything to close the sale in his head. so these folks took it literally. they did. they said to themselves, this guy will do what he says because he is a -- they love this tv character that he plays on "the apprentice."
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and they thought he was a straight shooter. and the guy lies. the main thing about him is he is flexie. this guy is like a teenaged gymnast he is so flexible. >> the 200 promises, lis, first of all, if you followed the presidency, you know that 200 promises is too many for a four-year term. that can't happen. and that's why people have to focus very carefully on what are those first agenda items because that's when you have your maximum strength. >> yes. >> the really -- and to see them waste the first 100 days, burning up whatever donald trump's maximum strength was, and now enter what becomes the abyss of the second 100 the next thousand days. the momentum only weakens after the first 100 days. >> yes. and the first 100 days is supposed to be like your honeymoon. and for donald trump, it's turned out to be more like a
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very acrimonious divorce. and if we look at the issues, sure, he did put out 200 promises. but on the issues where he has sort of focused more, the immigration travel ban, the executive order, the repeal of obamacare, tax reform, he is 0 for 3. and it's hard to imagine, or think of any president in recent history who has had a less fruitful first 100 days. >> rick, i think george will made the point for me that i think makes the most sense here. that if there is going to be a collapse or a dimunition, it isn't going to be one thing. it isn't going to be mexico not paying for the wall. they already know that's not going to happen and they're still with him. what george is saying at some point in time, after a year, this accumulation of all of these failed promises will finally sink in. one presumes. but that's just a presumption as of now. >> well, lawrence, i think there
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are two big factors with the trump voters who will eventually get buyers remorse. the first is all these promises he made, the wall and law and order things, all those promises came down in their minds to i'm going to improve your life in a material way. i'm going to -- unlike all these other bastards in washington, i'm going to be the one guy who brings your job back from china or mexico. i'm going make your life better. i'm going to do all these things that only i can do. to improve your life. well, he is not doing any of those things. it's arguable if those things would even improve their lives or actually cause them more damage. but he has made a promise to them that they internalized something that was going to help them materially. i don't see that coming with anything he is going to do legislatively that's even got a chance in hell of passing right now. >> all right. we're going have to squeeze a break in here. and when we come back, the president's statements about north korea tonight. really stunning comments by the president of the united states.
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...get up to 100% flake-free and unbelievably beautiful hair it's not head & shoulders, it's the new head & shoulders tonight's breaking ns, president trump told reuters today about north rea. >> this is a chance that we could end up having a major, major conflict with north korea. absolutely. >> lis smith and rick wilson are back with us. and rick, i'm wondering is this just the way he thinks he has to say things like this so north korea will think he has somehow upped the stakes? >> donald trump keeps looking at these things as a real estate negotiation with a lot of bluster and a lot of bluffing. and fails to realize that we're dealing with a country that is not a rational actor and that is poised to do damage to a significant ally of ours if we miscalculate on this thing.
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this could get out of hand. and a lot of people could die unless donald trump leaves this to the grown-ups. i would much rather have mcmaster and mattis and even rex tillerson handling this right now than this verbally incontinent man-child who feels like he is moving little toy soldiers around the board. >> lis, your reaction. >> and just look, to rick's point, bluster and bluffing might work in the real estate world. it might work on a reality tv show. but this is not donald trump at the bar with his buddies and talking loosely. he is the commander in chief. he is the president of the united states, and his words matter. and that sort of loose language should be deeply concerning to the american people and also to our allies across the world. >> well, here is donald trump at the bar with his buddies. listen to this. this is something else he said in the same interview. he is a friend of mine. he is actually -- i think he is doing, you know, an amazing job as a leader. rick, you want to guess who that is?
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>> you know, lawrence, it could be anybody. it could be anybody except probably paul ryan at this point in time. >> this is of course the president of china. this is president xi. and this is after, you know, a weekend, almost a weekend with president xi. he is a friend of mine. he is actually i think he is doing, you know, an amazing job as a leader. and, so, rick, there we see that's all it takes to become a friend of donald trump's. >> you know, this is a guy who is so susceptible to flattery. and they -- all these people, these world leaders have learn you'd go in, you suck up to this guy. and he is an easy mark at that point. the con man gets conned. >> this is the quote that is going to live in infamy. he is a friend of mine. it's going to be like that george w. bush, i looked into his eyes thing. he will live to regret this fairly soon. rick wilson, lis smith, thank you both for joining us. >> thank you, lawrence. coming up, the crisis at fox news continues, and this time sean hannity is worried about it.
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clarispray covers 100 percent of your nasal allergy symptoms. clarispray. from the makers of claritin. i'm going to be taking a vacation with my family. so i'm not going to be here tomorrow and friday or monday. i will be back on tuesday. >> vacations authority on wednesdays and thursdays on fox news. remember what happens the last time a fox news host said he was going onacation. jesse watters vacation begins just three days into his new job as a co-host at the five at 9:00 and one day after he said this about ivanka trump. >> i don't know what's going on here but i really liked how she spoke into that microphone. >> gabriel sherman reports bill shine has told friends he recently asked rupert's sons to release a statement in support him.
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but they refused to do so. a source add that shine complained that rupert isn't fighting for him in the press. donald trump's biggest defender at fox news now sean hannity tweeted this to gabe sherman. gabe, i pray this is not true because if it is, that's the total end of the fox news channel as we know it. done. somebody high up and inside fox news channel is trying to get an innocent person fired, and, gabe, i know who it is. >> joining us now, gabe sherman, first reporter to make the news of the decision by the murdochs to fire bill o'reilly, he is thor thoft definitive book about the turmoil at fox news. the sean hannity piece of this is fascinating.
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he hasn't been part this controversy publicly at all. but with billshine's job seemingly to be lenned in your reporting, sean handity has emerged publicly as a defender. how should we read that. >> as you pointed out, he is loyal to billshine. he was a former producer of his. but i think the bigger context is sean hannity associates billshine with the right wing ror les veion of fox news. this is part of a larger corporate scandal where the murdochs want to steer fox news into a more center right more moderate direction. so sean hannity seesshine's tenuous position and sees the possibility that fox news could be changing and he would be the odd man out and be the lone right wing voice at fox. i think that's part of the bigger context here. >> but if billshine were to go, why would that affect the fox schedule, which does reasonably well. even without o'reilly, it does
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very well. >> bill shine as you pointed out is sort of ailes' protege. he was trained by him. people at fox news want him to go because they say this culture of harassment at fox news can changeological ailes's right hand man who was in a position to know about the cereal harassment is gone. >> is that a dominant view at fox news or is the hannity view of shine the dominant view? >> i'm hearing more of the former, which is that people want shine to go because they want a change. hannity seems to be the more lone voice because he represents the old guard, the ailes version of fox. >> and bill shine has been at fox news from the beginning. >> from the beginning. >>r. for forever. he came out of local news. this is the classic roger ailes case where he plucks people out of obscurity and gives them a tremendous amount of power and money. in exchange he demanded loyalty. i think one thing that's striking here as well is during the ailes era, we never would have seen this.
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he ran that place with an iron fist. people did not speak out of school. >> also, it's an indication that sean hannity believes bill shine really needs help and this is a crisis. >> yes, yes, this is a crisis. >> gabe sherman, thank you for joining us tonight. we'll be right back. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. with tempur-pedic.t our proprietary material automatically adjusts to your weight,
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there's nothing more than my so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. gets it. they offer free cancellation if my plans change. visit the president wants a vote it's big screen entertainment, right in your hands. buy a samsung galaxy s8 and get one free when you have directv and add a line. >>the president wants a vote and wants a health care system as soon as possible. but that's going to be dictated by the officer and majority leader and the majority whip in the house when they feel they have the votes. >> that was sean spicer today. tonight, the house has announced there will be no vote. because they don't have the votes. so, no repeal of obamacare in the first 100 days. "the 11th hour" tonight with joy reed starts right now.
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tonight, add another investigation to the list for donald trump's former national security adviser. general michael flynn faces new scrutiny from the pentagon. mean while trump says nati security adviser, general michael flynn faces scrutiny from the pentagon. meanwhile, tonight, president trump says there is going to be a major, major conflict with north korea. also, the chief of staff will be here to talk about what is missing from the new presidency. "the 11th hour" begins now. good evening from new york, i'm joy reid in for brian who has the night off. it's just a day to go before day 100, russia remains the story the white house just cannot shake off. and now there are questions involving the former national security adviser michael fl