tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 15, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i said, if it's possible, would you let me know am i under investigation? >> president trump is under investigation. >> first of all, when you're under investigation, you're giving all sorts of documents and everything. >> and now he's attacking the investigator. >> you are witnessing the single greatest witch hunt in american political history led by some very bad and conflicted people. >> tonight, as the vice president lawyers up, is the president still considering firing the special counsel? plus, new details on where the investigation is going and why potential money laundering is part of the picture. then, democrats continue to turn up the heat as the secret health care bill move as long. >> the president has called trumpcare bill from the house mean and a son of a b.
do you agree with the president that the house bill was mean and a son of a b? >> and we'll go inside the ballpark as republicans and democrats come together when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. this is the scene at nationals park in washington, d.c., where the congressional baseball game is now under way one day after a mass shooter attacked republican practice for this very game, leaving five wounded including representative steve scalise, who remains in critical condition. capitol police officer david bailey, 36 hours after being injured in the line of duty, threw out the game's ceremonial first pitch. that's him there. let's speak with two members of congress from the game later in the show. meanwhile, president donald j. trump is being investigated for possible criminal obstruction of justice. today he attacked the integrity and character of the man who is investigating him. this as his vice president, mike pence, is lawyering up.
and this just in. "the washington post" reporting that the special counsel is now investigating jared kushner's business dealings. more on that in a bit. we begin of course with the president, who appeared to go after special counsel robert mueller, the man leading the justice department's russia investigation, in a series of official statements today in the form of tweets. they made up a phony collusion with the russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. nice. there's no evidence to support the president's claims. indeed, new reporting suggests mueller's investigation is zeroing in on possible money laundering by trump campaign officials. more on that shortly. back to the president's statement, however, which continued. you are witnessing the single greatest witch hunt in american political history, led by some very bad and conflicted people. #maga. late tuesday, "the new york times" reported that shortly after mueller was named special counsel, the president soon began entertaining the idea of firing mr. mueller even as his staff tried to discourage him
they believed would turn a bad situation tiny say catastrophe. asked if the president has confidence in mueller, sanders said, i believe so. as conservative media has started aggressively calling for mueller to be fired, someone republicans are actually defending the probe. >> i support mr. mueller in his investigation, and i think that he will do a fine job and a thorough jos thorough job and let the chips fall where they may. >> he's a man of integrity, and he needs to be able to do his work. i think it's better for all of us if that work continues. >> it's not a witch hunt. >> is mueller's probe a witch hunt? >> i don't view it that way. look, the president is going to have to go through this unfortunately because it's going to take some time and be a distraction in some ways. but ultimately, i think at the back end of this, he and the country will be better served
for it. >> the director of national intelligence dan coats testified today in a closed session before the senate intelligence committee, the same committee where in open session eight days ago, coats pointedly refused to say whether president trump had asked him to press former fbi director james comey to back off his investigation into the president's former national security adviser michael flynn. nbc news has confirmed that mueller has requested an interview with coats as part of his obstruction of justice investigation. mueller also wants to talk to the head of the national security agency, admiral mike rogers, about his conversations with the president as well as rogers' former top deputy richard ledgett, who wrote a memo documenting a phone call between rojegers and the presidt in which "the wall street journal" reports the president questioned the veracity of the intelligence community's judgment that russia had interfered with the election and tried to persuade mr. rogers to say there was no evidence of collusion between his campaign and russian officials. meanwhile, amidst the swirl of
investigations, vice president pence today announced he has hired an outside counsel named richard cullen, a seasoned federal criminal attorney to represent him in the investigations. in a statement, pence's office said, quote, the vice president is focused entirely on his duties and promoting the president agenda and looks forward to a swift conclusion of this matter. joining me now, barbara mcwade, who is u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan until she was ordered to resign. stephen, let me start with you. i know this is a thing that lawyers have to deal with with clients, particularly in courtrooms where you get an adverse ruling from a judge and the client wants to yell at the judge or say insulting things about the judge. and generally my understanding is the advice lawyers give to clients is to not do that. you would imagine that's the same advice the president's getting from his legal counsel. >> oh, i think that's exactly right, chris. i think especially in the case of bob mueller, if president trump really thinks that trying to intimidate him in the press
or through tweets or other public statements is actually going to have an impact, i think he has badly misjudged his man. this is someone who was fbi director for more than a decade. this is someone who has been around the block more than a few times. if the goal is to actually knock bob mueller off his game, it's a pretty silly way to try tow do it. >> do you think, barbara, when you think about obstruction and you think about that framework, i imagine it's something you've dealt with as a federal prosecutor. do you feel like it makes sense, it scans to you as plausible, the facts in evidence that have been entered would lead one to at least investigate that? >> oh, sure. i think the information we have already from jim comey is enough to merit an investigation, and now we're hearing reports that maybe dan coats and mike rogers also were asked by president trump to intervene in the investigation. and so, you know, when you have just one witness telling a story, you have made a he
said/he said situation that's difficult to prove guilt beyond a reasonable. but if you can get additional witnesses telling the same story, it's certainly much more powerful evidence. >> there's also a tremendous irony here. i want to play a little bit of sound. the president at other points was reaching back to the hillary clinton in the campaign to president clinton's appearance on loretta lynch's plane. you can forget the degree to which investigations and the sort of looming investigations was a core theme of the president's campaign down the stretch. take a listen to this. >> there's virtually no doubt that fbi director comey and the great, great special agents of the fbi will be able to collect more than enough to garner indictments against hillary clinton and her inner circle despite her efforts to disparage them and to discredit them. if she were to win this election, it would create an
unprecedented constitutional crisis. in that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial. >> i mean, stephen, to the point of constitutional crisis, i mean what does that term mean in this context? and i mean that in terms of if there are really concrete findings by mueller that a crime was committed here by the president. >> yeah, i mean i think, chris, then the question really becomes what's the next step? you know, there's a big debate among constitutional law scholars about whether it's even possible legally to bring a criminal indictment against a sitting president. historically we've never had to answer that question because when we've gotten that far, the remedy historically has been for the house of representatives to exercise its constitutional obligation to pursue impeachment charges. there have been two impeachments. neither succeeded. president andrew johnson, president bill clinton.
there was almost a third, but president nixon resigned. i think the real question at the end of the day is not how much this actually how much this criminally implicates president trump. the real question is as the special counsel investigation unfolds, at what point do the politics become so toxic for the president that republicans in congress begin turning against him and start talking about impeachment. >> barbara, did you get an opportunity to see some of the comments preet bharara made about his interactions with the president? >> i did. >> you know, you were in that cohort of people that were asked to resign en masse, and we should say that's not totally unusual. these are appointed positions. they serve at the pleasure of the president. but i wonder what you made of the interactions preet bharara described insofar as they seemed to track very similarly to what james comey described. that's to say the president reaching out multiple times to talk to preet bharara apparently in ways that bharara found
inappropriately. ultimately bharara not calling him back and then finding himself essentially fired the next day. you were part of that cohort that was fired. what did you make of that chain of events? >> well, those calls were absolutely inappropriate. i think what preet bharara said was the president called him a couple of times just to shoot the breeze and seemed to be trying to cult vat a personal relationship with him. when i was u.s. attorney, we were all told there was a very strict protocol for communicating with the white house. if we were requesting some special event, there was a white house liaison, and we were to talk only to that person because we wanted to avoid any conflict whether actual or the appearance of a conflict by having direct communications with the president because there should never be any conversation whatsoever, especially about cases. so it struck me as odd. it made we wonder whether preet's office had any pending investigations that might
implicate the trump business interests. but nonetheless, just making those contacts was inappropriate. >> thanks for joining me. i'm joined by betsy woodruff, who like almost everyone else in washington is at the baseball game tonight, and sam cedar, host of the majority report. betsy, i can hear the crowd cheering there. i believe the gop is winning at this point if my internet is correct. here's my question for you. stephen just made this point about the politics of this ultimately, and i think the key question now before republican members of congress is would they abide the firing of mueller? i mean mueller does seem to me to represent a threat to the presidency. he is actively investigating the president for the commission of a crime. we know that now. >> exactly, and regardless of how it seems to you, it obviously seems that way to many of the president's allies, including judge jeanine pirro, a fox host who over the weekend had a significant monologue about how she thought that mueller and comey were in
cahoots, trying to take down the president. so that's definitely a perception that exists among the president's allies. >> i mean you're fairly well sourced among republicans on capitol hill. you've been interviewing them. what sense do you get about how far they're willing to let this go in either direction? would they stand up to the president firing mueller or attempting to do so, or would they let it go? >> you know, it's a really good question. i think part of it depends on the way that mueller gets portrayed, the way that he is able to defend himself over the coming weeks. at this point, the white house is claertearly aware that if th president were to fire mueller, it could have tectonic political consequences. one of the larger questions might be does 2018 become the impeachment election? that's extremely plausible right now, that it comes down do democrats seize control of the house simply so they can try to go after the president? that's a political calculation that's very present in the minds of both sides on capitol hill right now. >> you know, and i think the
attacks on mueller are not just about trying to get mueller to back down in some way. i mean i think if you start to play this out, mueller can't do anything except for make a recommendation to the acting attorney general. and then the question becomes -- i mean it's -- >> the legitimacy of that. >> exactly. and it's all political, right? i mean there's only one judge, and that the republican party, the caucus in the house, assuming this happens before 2018. and so this is -- i mean there's a reason why maga is tagged on a slag of mueller. i mean it is to activate his base and to say basically -- i mean he is threatening those republican house members as much as he is mueller, it seems to me. >> right. that the key there, betsy, does that make sense to you? the key here is to sort of coalesce a vision of mueller as a fundamentally illegitimate actor in the minds of core supporters as the kind of final and ultimate fallback the
president has. >> right, and the challenge with that is that mueller has been around for so long. he knows so many people, particularly in the federal law enforcement community. he has so much bipartisan support that taking him down would just be really difficult. i've been talking to a lot of former federal law enforcement officials over the last few days. the consensus is even though mueller as the leadership of the fbi generated some controversy. one person said he would actually berate employees in front of each other. despite that, he's very well regarded, very highly respected within the bureau. if mueller were to be sort of deliberately humiliated by the white house, that would have major law enforcement repercussions, and with the republican party as we know it is very, very intimately supportive of and connected to federal law enforcement community. so it's important to remember that piece of all this. >> they may be, but i don't think the question is whether or not taking down mueller. i think the question is if he is in a position of bringing certain charges to the attorney
general's office, the question is do the republicans have the space to say, i'm not so sure. >> this guy was conflicted. he's a bad guy. i mean there's a few other bits of data to adhere, right? mueller was -- we learned today, he was interviewed at the white house the day before. >> right. >> to be the fbi director. so in terms of what they thought of him before he got appointed to this -- >> and we already got a preview of what paul ryan would say, right? it's okay, mueller has made the decision his intent was to obstruct, but maybe president trump just didn't realize that's not the way things worked. they're creating wiggle room, and they're doing it on all different sides of this. >> we should also say this, betsy. >> additionally, though, president trump realized that there are certainly controversial conversations between law enforcement officials and the white house during the campaign when he lambasted loretta lynch for the conversation she had with bill clinton. >> which he did today in a tweet. i don't want to get ahead of the facts like there's an assumption
that robert mueller is going to return a recommendation. in fact he may well say, the president, i want to clear his name. the thing that makes that hard to envision is the behavior of the white house, which instead of behaving in a way that says, i'm glad it's robert mueller. i trust that this person will find the truth that there was no obstruction of justice -- that is not what they're saying. >> they're not acting that way. one explanation could be just that donald trump feels so insecure still about the election, which -- >> which is totally plausible. >> and in many respects, just as disturbing. it could also be there are other things that are out there. it may not be about collusion for the white house. >> i will say this, matt iglesias, says everyone who is looking at the president, it's like why are you incriminating yourself and covering things up.
the president is the only person that knows what he did. that's an important thing to keep in mind when reading his behavior. thank you, both. >> sure thing. we'll be returning back to that game in a bit. ahead the widening scope of robert mueller's investigation that started with potential collusion with russia, expanded to possible obstruction of justice by the president, and now the words money laundering are being invoked. the latest on where this investigation is headed after this two-minute break. ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected. that's the power of and.
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where you do business. ♪ ♪ we already knew that special counsel robert mueller was investigating russia's interference in the 2016 election and any potential ties to u.s. persons in the trump campaign. now we know mueller is looking at whether the president himself broke the law by trying to obstruct that russia probe. but this is key, that's not all. buried in the final paragraph of "the new york times" report on the obstruction inquiry was the following revelation. a former senior official says mr. mueller's investigation was looking at money laundering by trump associates. the suspicion is that any
cooperation with russian officials would most likely have been in exchange for some kind of financial payoff and that there would have been an effort to hide the payments, probably by routing them through offshore banking centers. there's already been a lot of reporting on some unorthodox financial dealings by the president's one-time campaign chairman paul manafort and on the undisclosed payments received by michael flynn. both men have been described by key figures in mueller's investigation. some of the president own ventures have been known to run afoul of laws. the trump taj mahal had to pay a fine to the treadsry department after breaking anticipate money laundering rules 106 times in its first year and a half of operation according to the irs in a settlement agreement. special counsel mueller has been putting together a crack team of investigators, many with experience handling financial crimes including a justice department trial attorney named lisa page, who has deep experience with money laundering and organized crime cases.
and now top this all off. according to "the washington post," mueller is investigating the business dealings of the president's son-in-law, jared kushner, as well. i'm joined by pulitzer prize winning journalist david cay johnston and nick ackerman. david, let me start with you. i should read the kushner attorney statement just to get this on the record. we do not know what this report refers to. it would be standard practice for the special counsel to examine financial records to look for anything related to russia. mr. kushner previously volunteered to share with congress what he knows about russia-related matters. he will do the same if he is contacted in tekz with any other inquiry. what do you make of this reporting? real estate is a business that lends itself to complex financial transactions that often can be quite easy to hide from prying eyes. >> yes. understand that donald has a long, long history of being involved in transactions that
are hard to trace and understand what he's doing. when trump tower was built, it was one of only two buildings in manhattan of its kind where anonymous wealth could buy into them. now it's all over the place. but back then -- and he was able to charge premium prices. there have been a number of transactions with russians, and i think it's financial actions where donald has always been much more vulnerable. right now there is a case going on in which he's alleged to have authorized what is described as a quarter billion dollar tax fraud. that money disappeared from new york to iceland into a bank that was under the control of a russian oligarch. >> well, that's interesting. nick, i wanted to talk to you. i thought of having you on tonight because, you know, when we go back to watergate, and again there's no perfect template for what's happening now, but there is the famous follow the money line. people stetend to forget that w the thread, that nixon had to
get this money and get it to the people that were up to the high jinx as it were. that was sort of the key part to cracking the case. >> it was part of the case, all right? but i think what's interesting here is that you can't look at the obstruction and the following the money as two separate items. you've got to ask yourself, people who obstruct justice, they do it because they're trying to hide something. so what you've got to ask yourself here is what is trump trying to hide? do you really he was asking jim comey out of the goodness of his heart because he loves michael flynn to just drop the case on michael flynn? there is something that michael flynn knows about donald trump that has president trump extremely nervous. >> i mean this gets to the key point, right, which is it always has seemed to me the case that it's possible that the president's campaign and no one in his orbit colluded with the russians on this and also the president of the united states does not want someone with
subpoena power investigating his business practices. right? can't those both be plausible here? >> it's plausible but not totally because if you look at what flynn was doing, he was meeting with the russian ambassador during the campaign. he was meeting with the russian ambassador after relating to the sanctions on crimea. >> and lying about it. >> and lying about it. >> right. >> it's amazing how they all came down with this amnesia at the same time. but the question is do you really think that flynn was going to the russians, talking about these sanctions without donald trump knowing about it? >> right. >> i mean here's a guy who grew up in the cold war. russia was the arch enemy. do you think he would do that without donald trump's knowledge and consent? and if that's so and he was doing criminal acts relating to the russians and it all related to all of these financial dealings that donald trump had in russia, which we don't know anything about, i mean maybe --
maybe that is what he's trying to hide. >> and he also -- david, it also strikes me he has now a ken starr problem. i say that with all of the sort of political valence that has, right, because ken starr famously starts on an arkansas land deal and ends up with an intern with whom the president of the united states had a sexual relationship. and the two had nothing to do with each other but for the fact that ken starr was digging around. the president, it would seem to me, given the vastness of the holdings he has, now really does have a ken starr problem. >> and he's got as his pursuer in mueller, someone who, because he ran the fbi longer than anybody except for j. edgar hoover, has deep knowledge of how you can see the entanglements between financial matters and the russian efforts to influence and disrupt democracy in the west and in the u.s. and put those together in a way that will make sense. clearly there's something deep and dark that we do not fully
understand. maybe something we don't understand at all that donald feels must be kept under wraps. >> i will respectfully dissent from that judgment. there's not clearly something deep and dark at least to my mind. i remain agnostic and open about it. but i will ask you this, nick. what is the time frame here? the talking point circulated by the president is this is a witch hunt. they've already been going at it for so long. they've come up with nothing. do you think it's evidence of the president's innocence and the people around him that they have not found anything definitive yet? >> not at all. just take what happened with watergate. the burglary happened on june 17th, 1972. cox was appointed as special watergate prosecutor may 23rd of 1973. >> right. >> nixon didn't resign until august 8th of 1974. there may be a 24-hour news cycle now, but there is not a 24-hour legal cycle. the legal process takes time. >> yeah. >> it takes effort and a lot of dogged determination and work. >> david cay johnston and nick ackerman, thank you, gentlemen. coming up, republicans and
democrats are right now playing their annual congressional baseball game. i love how professional it all looks. it looks like an actual baseball game. in the wake of yesterday's horrible attack. we'll have the latest on that after this quick break. and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis.
tonight at nationals park, democrats and republicans are facing off in one of the last great bipartisan traditions in washington, the congressional baseball game. tonight's game taking on special meaning of course coming one day after a shooter attacked a republican team practice. among the wounds, house majority whip steve scalise who remains in critical condition. but according to the hospital
has improved from yesterday. the congressman will need additional operations and will remain hospitalized for a while. representative cedric rich montd, pitcher for the democratic team and a friend of scalise said the republican is doing well so far. >> it's no secret that it hit us, it's no secret that the bullet split up and that vital organs were hit. the good news is that all of the surgeries so far have been successful. steve is under heavy sedation, and he's been in surgery, i think, all of the three times that i've been there. >> two u.s. capitol police officers were also hurt. special agent crystal griner was shot in the ankle, and special agent david bailey, seen here throwing out the night's first pitch tonight, was reportedly struck by shrapnel. yesterday, lobbyist matt mika remains in critical condition after being shot several times.
his family said today. and congressional staffer zack barth was treated for a gunshot to his leg, and he thankfully is now out of the hospital, as is congressman roger williams of texas, who injured his ankle during the shooting. when we come back, we'll go live to nationals park where democratic representative barbara lee, and lee zeldin will join us after the break. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me,
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nationals park in washington, d.c. tonight where you don't need the cbo to tell you -- who wrote that? where you don't need the cbo to tell you the score is 7-2. democrats are ahead. over 20,000 tickets sold as of this afternoon raising more than a million dollars for several charities including the capitol police memorial fund. joining me now, congresswoman barbara lee and congressman lee zeldin of new york. it's great to see you there. i imagine it's an extremely emotional atmosphere there, congressman zeldin. we watched the moment of silence. we saw david bailey, the capitol police officer, throw out that first pitch. what's it been like? >> absolutely. it's bringing everyone together. you know, singing the national anthem, seeing david bailey come out for the first pitch, there's a tremendous amount of pride for our country. we were all tested yesterday
morning in ways we're tested every day, but we're all coming together here for our national pastime. unfortunately the dems are beating up on the republicans pretty badly on the field. >> that's okay, lee. >> i think the dems are up 7-2 as you mentioned. not good. not good at all. >> congresswoman, you know, it was such an awful scene yesterday and so shocking, i think, to everyone. i just wonder how you're processing it tonight and whether you feel like since you started this -- and you've been doing this for a little bit now -- do you feel more threatened personally than you used to? >> well, first let me just say everyone, of course, is on an emotional roller coaster right now. our thoughts and prayers are with steve, are with all of those who were hurt in this horrific tragedy yesterday. and also coming from the bay area, i have to really again
remember and pray for those who lost their lives in san francisco. >> that's right. >> and so, you know, it's a moment to reflect. it's a moment to really remember who we are as a country and that, in fact, we can have different points of views. but hate speech and actions that lead to violence are just unacceptable. violence should not be an option. we should engage in our debate in a way that's healthy and stay true to who we are but also understand that we must stay unified as a country and really make sure our democracy works. >> you know, that line, to me, is really important, right, because people talk about the tone. but at some level, part of what makes a country great and has from its very beginning, which some of the most brutal rhetorical political fights from john adams and jefferson on was, you know, we mix it up in the public sphere in america. and congressman zeldin, how do you sort of understand holding
on to that and, at the same time, looking for sort of a vision of civic purpose and unity that isn't quite as toxic as the one we have now? >> well, i think disagreement is beautiful, and it should be encouraged. it's part of what makes our nation the greatest nation in the world is when we debate ideas and we have a better solution because of it. but there is a way to disagree. and barbara lee and i might disagree on issues. we might be able to debate what we think is the way to solve problems facing our constituents and our country. but i would be -- my heart would be torn if something happened to barbara lee. we're all a family here. you know, there are liberal democrats, conservative republicans, and many people in between. but we care about each other. we talk to each other. we know about each other's families and we know each other's passions on issues. what's not to answer is to advocate for violence against someone, to tolerate violence against someone, or to actually obviously as we saw yesterday
morning, carry it out. >> barbara, i want to take a moment. we got to see david bailey throw out that pitch which was a surprise. he was on crutches. you know, crystal griner and david bailey, the two capitol police officers who happened to be there who put themselves in the line of fire, i just think about the scope of the even greater catastrophe that those two saved all of us from not just in terms of people being killed, but just what could have happened if not for them. we all owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude. >> the capitol police officers go way beyond the call of duty, and we have to salute their heroic efforts. they protect us each and every single day. i have personal experience with the capitol police, and it's really an unbelievable experience because you see each and every day these men and women living up to their oath of office, living up to their duty. and the courage they display, hopefully we can learn a lesson
from their bravery and their courage and be better members and be more courageous members and really understand that we have to do our job based on the oath of office that we took in a way that honors our democracy. >> david bailey, crystal griner, we all of us owe you just an unbelievable debt of gratitude. thank you very much for joining me together. enjoy the rest of the game. >> thanks, chris. >> thank you. still to come, senate republicans continue to craft their health care bill in complete secrecy. how their plan to move forward and what the resistance is planning in its wake coming up. plus tonight's thing 1, thing 2 after the break.
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minister trumble. while he has respect for the people and respect for prime minister trumble. >> that was sean spicer in early february answering questions about a reportedly aggressive phone call president trump had with prime minister turnbull, allegedly telling america's ally, this was the worst call by far that day as well as badgering, bragging, abruptly ending the call with him. their relationship seemed much improved by last month when the two met just hours after the president celebrated the house health care bill in the rose garden. >> congratulations on your vote today. >> thank you very much. big day. >> big day. >> a big day. >> how did the prime minister really feel during that meeting? >> it was beautiful. it was the most beautiful putting me at ease ever. >> more of that new leaked audio of prime minister turnbull is
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today an australian news network released leaked audio of prime minister malcolm turnbull speaking to journalists. in his remarks, the prime minister offered a bit of parody of president trump. >> the donald and i, we are winning and winning in the polls. [ laughter ] we are winning so much. we are winning like we have never won before. we are winning in the polls. we are. we are. not the fake polls. not the fake polls. they're the ones we're not winning in. [ laughter ] we're winning in the real polls. you know, the online polls. they are so easy to win. did you know that? i know that. did you know that? i kind of know that. i know that. they are so easy to win. i have this russian guy.
[ laughter ] believe me, it's true. it is true. >> in a radio interview today, prime minister turnbull called the leaked audio a breach of protocol but added it was a good-humored roast. >> the butt of my jokes was myself. >> and donald trump. >> oh, i wouldn't -- well, i wouldn't say that. i think it was more a -- it was more good-natured than that, i think. but, listen, it's fun. you've got to have a laugh. we've got to lighten up. stressful business, politics, tom. better be cheerful. ormance, so you can own the road. track-tuned handling, so you can conquer corners. aggressive-styling, so you can break away from everyone else. experience the exhilaration of the bold lexus is.
senate democrats held a press conference today attacking the republican health care plan. and after senators detailed some of their complaints, the very first question and answers were telling. >> just a moment. >> the secrecy with the republicans bill, you don't know what's in there right now. >> we were discussing this yesterday, and there was
discussion about there was a partisan divide with respect to this issue. and i said, you don't have a partisan divide when you're talking about being able to read a piece of legislation. >> and what we know is what we kind of read in the press about what some of our republican colleagues are telling all of you. but that's what we're really reacting to. >> therein lies the brilliant deviousness of the senate strategy. senate republicans are negotiating entirely in private because if their bill is anything like the house version, it will be full of very unpopular provisions, and they don't want those provisions public before a vote. in fact, it's unclear who does know what's in the bill since the senate finance committee chairman, orrin hatch, a member of the senate health care working group of 13 republican senators claims he doesn't even know. bloomberg news reporter ca purchase tweeting reporter asks what's in senate health bill, saying public doesn't know. well, join the crowd. i'm in the same category.
this morning, senator john thune, another one of those 13 republican senators was almost equally vague. >> right now it's discussions. it's policy options, and i thi point where we'll reduce it to legislative language where it will be shared. >> to be clear this is insane and unprecedented. this is a sixth of the economy and no one knows, apparently not even the 13 people negotiating it what it is. craft the bill in secret, drop it on the public, try to. ja it through. the movement to resist is now ringing alarms as loud as it can. tech: when you schedule with safelite autoglass,
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for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis. joining me now naomi klein author of "no is not enough, resisting trump's shock politics and winning the world." and heather mcgee. i don't often use public policy as an adjective. the book which i have started is basically the thesis of which in a broad sense the stuff of politics, right? it's not enough just to say no. you have to give people an alternate vision, a world to aspire to. it also seems like my lesson of the republican party from 2010 to 2016 was like no was enough. they just said no and they won and won and won and won. maybe no is enough. >> enough for what? >> right. >> winning power.
>> well, i disagree. i think the democrats have a problem with galvanizing their base. we just saw with the british elections what really turned things around was an exciting vision of the future that made people register to vote in record numbers. 75 youth voter turn out. they were voting for something tangible, a future that was better than the present. one of the reasons why no was not enough under trump is if we are fighting defensive battles all of these years and even if we were to win every single one which we know won't happen, best case scenario, we wind up where we were before trump which was the ground that produced trump which was dangerous. these crises predate trump. i'm involved in the climate issue. we can't afford these lost years of just holding where we were
before trump. there needs to be a yes woven into the no. i'm not saying no -- >> of course. >> no is absolutely necessary. but you can do two things at once. >> so i think in terms of the galvanizing question and it's interesting because it is a different system in a lot of ways. the levels have turned out there higher anyway. in the context of american politics one of the things we saw during the tea party and we are seeing now is there is something galvanizing to opposition itself. it's part of the structural nature of the polar pendulum in american politics. when you feel your people aren't in power that's when you're paying a lot of attention. that can also be a problem for exactly the reasons naomi said. then it's hard to carry people through other than opposition. >> what we are seeing now is the real need for what is called a visionary opposition. one saying what we are against and at the same time saying what
we are for. the reason why is if you look at the formula, the path for power. it goes to the people who right now are saying the status quo isn't serving them. and the people that's most operative for is the progressive base. single women. young people drowning in debt. economically struggling families of all races, people of color and immigrants. in 2016 we could have had a status quo message. the idea that the current political confines of the beltway are enough to really solve the problem of record economic inequality is even more folly. >> you talk about this and write about it. i'm supposed to believe this from where my politics come from. there is a huge ideological
exhaustion at the center of all projects. what's the project we are building here? there was a neo liberal and reagan/thatcher revolution. donald trump just had work force development week. okay? this is a guy who went around the country like i will bring back your jobs, youngstown and that was a good message. i will crack down on trade. he's been reduced to work force development in 145 days. to me this symbolizes the exhaustion. what's the solution to make people's lives better. >> this is a problem if the strategy we heard earlier in the show for 2018 is run on impeachment. vote for democrats so they can impeach donald trump. that's pretty much the same message. it's digging in deeper on the message of fear. vote for me because i'm not him. you know? i don't see how that's going to turn out any better. i think people want to be inspired. sure, the uk is a different
system. but turns out people are still worried about wanting good health care. young people are still worried about graduating in massive debt and being inspired by green jobs and getting to 100% renewable energy. it's not a different system. >> it is interesting though. interesting that in georgia now and john is running in this. he's hammering health care. above the russia stuff. even in that context from the feedback he's getting, that to him is what he's leading with. >> health care is something that feels very, very tangible. because 23 million people could lose their health care. >> which is why they are hiding it. >> i do want to go back to the point though about the jobs question. there is actually a vision that the congressional progressive kau suss put out in the congress and actually in the senate. sanders and schumer for a good version of a jobs and infrastructure plan that would
create millions of jobs. they are saying no to trump's phony wall street give away of an infrastructure plan and yes to a democratic vision. >> yeah. people in politics have to think you will improve their lives. trump did make the promise. >> i would argue that no really does matter. >> right. >> the no just around russia as opposed to the no of the whole give away. >> naomi klein and heather mcgee, thank you very much. good evening, rachel. >> thanks to you for joining us this hour. in watergate, prosecutors believed they could not bring a criminal indictment against a sitting president of the united states. that's not totally settled law, but they believed they couldn't. a lot of legal experts believe it is not possible to criminally indict a sitting president. in watergate a lot of other people were indicted. 69 different people were indicted. criminally charged in the