tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC August 17, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
ari @msnbc. the monuments man. let's play "hardball." there was terror in barcelona today but tonight's focus is on the recent act of terror in the united states. in the killing and injuring that took place in charlottesville. before that, what happened in spain, a vow plowed through a tourist spot in the city. at least 13 people were killed. at least 100 injured. they stay casualty count could rise in the coming hours. police say they've arrested two suspects but still don't have the driver of that van. we'll get you the latest as it comes. in first donald trump says they're coming the take away our national monuments to both george washington, thomas
jefferson and other founding fathers. stunned by the reaction to his handling of charlottesville, the president is attempting to draw the battle line away from his defense of those who marched with neo-nazis as did he on tuesday. he wants to plan on defending our country's heritage. he wants to make it about whether we keep the washington monday utility, the jefferson memorial and the rest sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal. you can't change history but you can learn it from. who is next is washington, jefferson? so foolish. the tweet came just hours after strategist steve bannon revealed how the white house homes to capitalize on the reaction to charlottesville. in an interview with the american prospect, bannon said, quote, the democrats, the longer they talk about identity politics. i got them. i want them to talk about race i every day. if the left is focused on race and identity and we go with
economic national i, we can crush the democrats. however there's some evidence that some, repeat some in the president's own party might have a hard time backing that banner approach. corcoran from tennessee made it clear the white house needs to change. >> the president has not yet, has not yet been able to demonstrate stability, nor some of the competence that he needs to demonstrate to be successful. he has not demonstrated that he understands what has made this nation great and what it is today. and he has to demonstrate the characteristics of a president who understands that. and without the things that i just mentioned happening, our
nation is going to go through a great peril. i will say we're at a point where there needs to be radical changes taking place. at the white house itself. it has to happen. >> how do you have that without an election sf joined by ashley parker, and political report he, analyst, sam with the daily beast, paul, an msnbc legal an list, and the director of home grown violent extremism studies at usc in california. thank you. let me go to paul butler. let's talk about what trump is up to apparently staying washington monday sxumt the jefferson memorial are in danger. this isn't about marching or hanging around with people who are nazis. what do you think about him trying on squirm out of his reputation problem? >> this is about deflecting and
pivoting with his coziness from white supremacists. this week he sounded like a bigot who just doesn't get that the white supremacist side lost the civil war and we now live in a country that should not honor terrorists who use violence and rape to keep black people down. >> do you think he allowed himself to be identified with the cause of the civil war? to support the continuation and extension of slavery into the territories? do you think he got that bad off? >> you know, i think that he is just being more open and trans parent about his close question, white racism than some other republicans like reagan and nixon whose whole southern strategy used words like welfare
queen and urban crime to talk about black people of trump's friendliness with white supremacists is more open and tra transparent and in a sense, it is more threatening to our nation. >> reagan did some good things. one of the bad things, looker you can't disguise what he said. he talked, his phrase, the young buck who would come into the super market and buy liquor with food stamps. that was one of his babies too. where is the president now in terms of of his repositioning, i think that's what's going on, where he wants to fight. where is he comfortable enjoying the fight and where doesn't he want to fight? >> so this is a fight the president wants to have. this is one the of reasons steve bannon was heartened after the tuesday press conference in trump tower. the thing is, the president is saying what he truly believes and what he thinks appeals to his base. this is an issue about political
correctness. there can be too much of a slide into political correctness. the problem there of course is that even while some of his advisers concede, this is a debate the president in the white house can win, they say it is the wrong motel. you a debate about political correctness when more than half the destination still furious and livid with you for steeming equate white supremacists with counterprotesters. >> it seems he is going to lose almost any fight here unless he makes it absurdbly whether we have george washington with our dollar bill anymore. which is where i think he's headed. >> you don't think -- >> he's a new yorker. hollywood for years, always glorified the old south. gone with the wind and the whole rest of it. >> first of all, paul is right. there is a weird element, you're supposed to be more discreet about your dog whistling and he's not. that works against him. but i was struck by the bannon
quote, down this if you have the nationalist element. they're not doing the 1-2 punch and they're not doing the two punch. herri >> there's no manufacturing base piece. >> the economy is growing but it is roughly the same as it was when it was under obama. he is smother in the a crisis of his own making. he can't get out of his rhetorical traps. he is trying turn it into a monument issue. >> what do you hear when you hear trump defend those who march with nazis? as well as with kkk people, as well as defending the monuments to the people really caused the civil war? >> well, as your previous guest mentioned, this is not just a dog whistle. this is a fog horn to his base. he is defending the greatest threat to the national security. the right wing.
you've seen the statistics. over twice as many attacks in the last decade. we knew this past weekend, we would have trouble many charlottesville. and they see this as an incredible movement in terms of the ability to move on. embolden, recruit, radicalize and engage. they're not wearing hoods and sheets anymore and they don't feel need to hide. >> i wouldn't paint the entire right wing as a threat. we're talking about one national right wing extremist. >> what do you make of that? >> we all know what we saw on saturday were neo-nazis, militia conservatives, we saw neo confederates, several factions of the klan. they are usually fragmented. they don't usually cold toast one location for one cause and they did that. with all due respect, we won't paint the right wing in that way.
but we are going to faint extremists that were there. and these are the people being emboldened by his activities. we've seen attacks over the last several weeks and months that have not been reported and they know what's going. on and they have a champion in what was said again for the third iteration. >> do you think those pictures that we're showing, the pictures we just showed, we're showing people fighting with each other. fist to fist. not exactly gun on gun but it's pretty rough. is that a recruitment poster for the alt right? >> we've seen this in activities with other protests. we had one in los angeles if 2010. where the alt right was attacked 20 protesters. the following day on their website, they had a notice saying we were there peacefully protesting when we were attacked. unfortunately on saturday, things went tragically and deadly awry and they were unable to respond to that. what they're trying to do now is
to lay low. the word is out. they didn't expect someone to get killed. especially someone on the other side and they have to regroup and restrategize. >> ashley at the white house, can you tell whether they're prepared, if professor suthers is right, if this isn't just a one weekend issue. it will be in boston tomorrow. boston will have a lot of people who don't like these people, we know about culturally, but it will be heated. boston is a hot city when it comes to political activity. it is very politically intense. how does the white house protect itself? >> i think that's a great question. i think the white house is worried. they do realize on issues like the, the president at his core believes there are two sides. and he come out and say that. he was very quick today to condemn the terrorist attack in barcelona. where with the violence in charlottesville, it took him over 48 hours food first
condemnation before he walked it back. in that sense, they're slightly hearten when he had moves the issue over to monuments and heritage than these fights breaking out. when they break out, the president will be expected to weigh in. this is something the white house needs to get under control. >> it seems the me, all you need he is 1 per%, or 1% of 1%. wait a second, i want to punch those lefties, too. i imagine what people were saying in barrooms around this country. i want to get into this tussle. fights do attract people. we know that. what do you think will happen politically if that becomes the case the rest of the summer? >> i home it will be too much even for the republicans. we have to understand that main stream republicans have always appealed to white resentment.
no democrat since lyndon johnson has gotten a majority of vote. so they're work the more subtle signs on civil rights. the lack of concern about police brutality. again, this is the chickens coming home to roost. there's always been a stirring up of republicans. >> let's listen to what senator corker said. the confederate statue in nashville. >> we want to keep our history. we don't want to wash it away but let's put night museum. let's have the time of people public buildings, where we go to discuss aspirational things, let's have aspirational figures. >> what are we going to do? i was walking through the capital the other day. i saw robert e. lee there. he's down in the crypt. >> he used to be.
>> but each state gets to submit two figures of history. they can be missionaries in hawaii. all kinds of people. they chose to keep that as the number two. the number one is upstairs in statuary hall. >> senator booker's legislation will take power to choose who is in the hall away from the states. i don't think it will happen. i think you will see progress on this front but it will happen locally. it will be municipalities, cities, states, mayors, governors saying we want to get rid of this plaque. >> how will that go with local control? here's charlottesville. they didn't like the decision. said let's get rid of robert e. lee on horseback and they said you can't make that decision. >> you see more action in this
direction. >> did you see in baltimore? >> you saw the removal of the confederate flagg. now you see movement in brooklyn but arizona, durham, palm. >> can we just acknowledge how absurd this conversation is? in the halls of had germany, they don't need to have he discussions about monuments to the nazis. that's what they need to do about robert e. lee. they need to take to it a dump truck and take it to the nearest incinerator. he wanted to keep my people slaves. >> there are no statues in germany of hitler. as a matter of fact, hitler's no home was torn down in austria because they didn't want him memorialized in any way. this is not with culture.
would we like the see our children going to hitler high school? this is not hard. >> let's listen to this. a different point of view. the lead attorney on president trump's legal defense team, john dowd, is distributing pro confederacy talking points. the "new york times" reported that he forwarded an e-mail written by conservative theorists which reportedly contained information validates president trump on charlottesville. the e-mail states that you cannot be against general lee and be for general washington. there is literally no difference between the two men. they said that black lives matter, a group that formed to protest the use of force by police against african-americans, is being directed by terrorists. >> the president's lawyers in theory are supposed to be the people who protect the president he from himself. instead is what you have one of his lawyers behaving like your
kooky who forwards the spam e-mails. it is another problematic example of the chaos and the people he's choosing to surround himself with at the top. >> so the pitch is to say guess what, boss, more trouble. thank you. , coming up, what really happened on the ground in charlottesville? we'll talk to a counterprotester who was there who said based on what she saw first hand, president trump's claim that both sides were responsible for the violence is just not true. she said even the extreme left, the antifa, likely saved lives including the people that she was with. plus, terror in barcelona. what we're learning about the person who drove a van into a crowd of people a busy tourist street. and the "hardball" round table and the growing di i'd within the republican party as the
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president trump has argued as you just saw that both sides were to blame. according to counterprotester brandy daniels, that's not true and she was there. she was part of faith leaders who linked arms. she joins us now from charlottesville. she hold as doctorate in theology from vander built and working on her post doctoral. i'm going to let you talk. you were there. take as much time as you need. tell us what it was like to be. there we've seen all the pictures but you were part of that picture. tell us the reality. >> hi, chris. thank you for having me. i had just moved to charlottesville and i am a post doctoral fellow in the project in religion and its publics at uva. and given that the work i do is how religion engages with the
publics, and given my commitments to justice and dismantling, participating in dismantling the evils and sin and structures of white supremacy, i felt it important to be there. i linked up with a group, congregate charlottesville led by two local faith leaders who do awesome work. and a number of folks were from out of town, cornell west and many others, trace wriy blackmad we walked up to the scene. we silently vigiled in a group of about 40, 50 or morer of state leaders. and our clergy garb. first we held a vigil on the line of the park. standing between us were the militia and then on the other side of them, a handful -- a handful. more than a handful, a lot of
nazis and alt righters, and we were there to witness, that's not what we stand for. and to put our bodies, many of us, white, on the line to stand there for, to counter the evils of white supremacy and to stand for the bodies, so they're not the ones with their bodies on the line. and we were there for a while. then a group of us moved up to the steps of emancipation park. as we were there on the steps, we were all linking arms. and a group of wehite supremacit nazis came through and our aim was to prevent them from entering the park shelf shoved through violently. they pushed a woman down. pushed their way through. it was scary. to say the least.
we strengthened our resolve and we said when they come through again, we're not going to let them get through. some anarchists and antifa types came up to us and asked what they could do to help. our group had different tactics than the antifa but the same goal. and we've seen these narratives in the media by president trump, that said that it was the same. the violence on both sides. that's not what i saw. i saw us standing there in silent protest and i saw them defending us. that group of nazis came back around. and as they did, there were a lot more of them. and it was hands down, cornell west in his interview on democracy said the anarchists
saved our lives. and i said i don't think, that didn't feel like hyperbole to me. that felt very real. there's probably a group of 100 and the anarchists intervened in that moment and put their bodies between ours, and it was only when the white supremacists started getting violent that they defended themselves and they defends us, giving us the space to retreat. wasn't safe. >> were you afraid for your life? >> i was. yeah. >> now we know more than we knew before you came on. thank you so much. a first hand account. god bless you. take care of yourself. i'm glad to see you're studying theology. anyway, up next, a live report from barcelona. what we're learning about the fake killed 13 people over there and the latest as police hunt for the driver. this is "hardball" where the sacks. day.
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sadly, it's another tragic evening in europe. with terrorists targeting spain's second largest city, barcelona. it was late in the afternoon when a white van plowed through crowds of people in the famous tourist destination in a tree-lined wall. the spanish interior minister said 13 people were killed and
at leaf 100 were injured in what officials are calling it a terrorist attack. they said the terrorist was zig zagging down the street before it came to a stop. at least two suspects are in cuss at this but the driver remains at large. president trump had a mootd response staying united states condemns the terror attack in bars loan, a spain, and will do whatever is necessary to help. what do we know now with who did this and why? >> we don't know the name of the suspect that was driving the white van, at least police are not confirming it yet. the driver of that white van is still on the run. the police arrested two people in connection to the terror attack today, but neither of them is the driver of the van that slammed into the crowd that
was on the avenue. it is perhaps the most famous or popular among tourists, pedestrian avenue in barcelona, if not in the whole of europe. packed with people at this time of year. august, very warm here, the peak of the tourist season. you can see it here. behind me is the plaza, one of the biggest squares here in barcelona. right there is where the rambla starts. it is all in lockdown because the police are searching. another develop sboomt the investigation, chris, is that the police are looking into whether there is a connection between the attack of today and an explosion that took place in a town about two and a half hours south from barcelona last night. initially they believed it was a gas leak but now they think it may have been an accident, that
explosion was caused by perhaps explosive material that could have been used by the same terrorist that carried this out today, to carry out a much bigger plot that involved explosives and possibly bombs. >> thank you from barcelona. terrorism is not new to spain. in 2004, ten bombs ripped through four commuter he trains in madrid killing 192 people. we all remember that. al qaeda took responsibility for that attack. that led to the surprise victory of a socialist government which opposed the war. scenes of carnage and devastation have become all too familiar as criminals are turning to vehicles as their deadly mode of attack. in nice, france, there was a targeted attack killing 86 people.
what is the foot print here? >> it is a consistent methodology. low tech, high impact. no cost. allows any individual to attack. this follows play book that isis and al qaeda have called for. used whatever means upon to include vehicles to attack in the heart of the western capitals. and unfortunately, what we saw in nice, london, berlin has come to barcelona. >> the sad reality, those of us who see ourselves as victims of terrorism, that it doesn't work. but the government fell. i wasn't a war supporter but those who supported the war in iraq were defeated. >> that's right. and i think what the terrorists are learning, they don't have to fly planes into major government buildings or high rises. with great emotional and human toll can have strategic impact on the politics of a country.
we've got the independence vote coming up. >> president trump followed up with this tweet. study what general peshing of the united states did. the president is recycling a largely debunked story which he made popular in the campaign about general john pershing. let's watch him in action. >> early in the century, last century, general pershing, did you ever hear? a rough guy. and they had a terrorism problem. he took 50 bullets and he dipped them pig's blood and he lined up the 50 people and they shot 49 of those people, and the 50th person, he said, you go back to your people and you tell them what happened.
and for 25 years, there wasn't a problem. >> what do you make of that? was that the genius that we just heard? >> it has been debunked. >> it didn't happen. >> it is unfortunate he mentions it now. the messages we need now are solidarity, work with the spanish. >> you don't want to tell the islamic people who have a dietary rules to make fun of their religion so you will what? make they will be on our side? >> that's part of it. we have a counter terrorism approach that doesn't rely on those kinds of means. i mean whether or not we adhere to the laws of war. and this is a signal we don't. and we certainly do. we have to work the european who's are very sensitive about that. i'm not sure it is the right message for that kind of
message. >> thank you. up next, another republican senator comes out against trump's comments charlottesville saying his moral authority has been compromised. that's understated fufb. award winning interface. award winning design. award winning engine. the volvo xc90. the most awarded luxury suv of the century. this august visit your local volvo dealer to receive sommar savings of up to $4,500. this august visit your local volvo dealer for over 100 years like kraft has,natural cheese you learn a lot about what people want. honey, do we have like a super creamy cheese with taco spice already in it? oh, thanks. bon appe-cheese! okay...
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catalan. his comments on monday, we're strong. what we want to see from our president is clarity and moral authority. and the moral authority is compromised when tuesday happens. there's to question about that. we should all call that on the carpet. >> welcome back. that was south carolina senator tim scott joining bob corker today in a chorus of vocal criticism of president trump. it comes at a time when the president seems almost gleeful in taking on his detractors. he was thrilled after lindsey
graham he blasted him for what he calls moral equivalency between the white supremacists and those against him. publicity sikh lindsey graham falsely stated that i said there is moral equivalency between the kkk, neo-nazis, and white supremacists. graham said, because of the manner in which you have handled the charlottesville tragedy, you are now receiving praise from some of the most racist and hate-filled individuals and groups in our country. for the sake of our nation, please fix this. >> i've been talking about this, what's going on, we're trying to see what happened in barcelona.
he's been besmirching his reputation. saying the real fight isn't about fine people marching with the swastikas and the hitler salutes, but the real question is whether we deep monuments to washington and jefferson. i think he is hoping to get someone on the hard left saying let's take them down too. it hasn't happened yet. >> i think his strategy shows, strategy at this point, obviously not working. he is trying on get past the story and go to another chapter. we now have a discussion about slavery and whether or not we should talk about our past presidents. in fact, donald trump is really doubling down because he's angry. he knows he was off messagest couldn't keep the message. he had the great teleprompter speech where he said this is terrible, racism is evil. and then he says, they're kind
of the same people. >> why do you think he back tracked some. >> because it is what he believes. he believes there are some nice people throughout that would go to a rally that is described as a white supremacist rally. he is doing this because he started his political year the birther movement. because he's never apologized for saying that the central park five -- >> you're saying he's as bad as he looks. i think that's what you said. >> i think trump's strategy is working. he only has one strategy. he has to keep his base together and he is losing some of it. he has now coalesced, as you point out. that press conference on tuesday. he was the happiest man on the planett. and his supporters -- >> she said it's him. >> yes. >> this doesn't seem to be working with some republicans. but my sense, is is this going to cause people to jump ship? is this just a bump in the road
and they'll stick with him? >> it is just a bump in the road. the ceos who broke him -- >> why did they jump ship? because they had boards of directors? >> that's right. the thing about president trump is that the rules of political gravity have not and apparently do not apply to him. all the republicans on capitol hill know that. all those many senators who have their own base of supporters, people alined with trump, they are really hesitant to get out in front. >> the subject where i grew up. they're sticking with it. >> they're not afraid of him anymore. but they still need goodies from the federal government. >> you've been on the hill. so have i. >> i think they're afraid of their people. >> i tweeted out as soon as it was over, there feels like the "access hollywood" issue. you had jeb busch and marco
rubio saying this is terrible bust at the end of the day, they were talking about tax reform. publics are going to work with him as soon as this blows over. they're thinking in four years -- >> john kasich who has no reason, he had a great deal on the "today" show and he was very tough until matt lawrie said -- >> that's right. and mike pence is playing a big and important behind the scenes game on infrastructure. he is the one leading the infrastructure even though he wasn't at the press conference. he is assuring they're going to get what they need. >> i think republicans will by and large paper over whatever sort of moral and political catch the president has created. >> what will it take? >> that's the big question. one would think -- >> they had to take it away and say it was just locker room
talk. talking about women abusing women. reince priebus said he went to trump and said you have to get out of this race. you can't run for president talking like that. that passed. now this seems to be passed. >> i was on the phone with an african-american supporter and he said that for him to not support donald trump anymore, he would have to go to the moonl and back. he said he thinks even as black man, that there are some nice people who might be some of the kkk. that some of them are not violent. that's what think thing is. that's coming from an african-american republican. so there are people nrgs my mind as a reporter, there's very mill will happen before people completely divorce themselves from this president. >> nazis. >> that's literally what this person told me. >> as long as he is beating on the media, he is making fun of corporate titans and giving nicknames to senators and congressmen, his base loves it. >> i think democrats don't mind being a little chaotic.
they sort of end joy, please clear the aisles of the convention? theyer in clear the aisles. republicans like leader. they like order. they like the john wayne notion. my brother who is a republican said they like leaders and right now there's only one leader. and they will not live in a world of chaos. if they have a president, they're going to back him no matter what. >> that's a crude way of saying it. my brother said, they think he's goofy but they're sticking with him. >> they are. here's the problem. >> we've seen what happens when there is a vacuum. the health care bill went down which the president called a disgraceful when he attacks jeff flake -- when he attacks no less than senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, what he is doing is undercutting the very people -- >> who is more popular, mitch mcconnell or donald trump? >> donald trump.
>> there's only one leader in the republican party. the democrats opposition. they don't have a clear leader bust they don't need a clear leader. they're just opposed. it would be nice to have one but they don't have one. >> the actual translation is i'll criticizing you because i need the help. and you're criticizing me because it works for you. it is understood. that's the game. so trump pays no price ultimately. >> i hear one of the reasons people are attacking trump is to separate themselves from him altogether. i'm counting on guys like richard burr, myself. i think he is going on take this guy on. which would be in the tradition of sam irvin who did it against nixon. this is "hardball" where the action is. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪
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i smo with a woman for two hours. she's biracial. she told me that donald trump would tell her that she's exactly like derek jeter. he was at one point impress that had black people like the watch tennis. he said that he was someone who didn't really want to talk to black people unless they were super interesting and super famous. >> that's what he said there is a pattern here. trump's national security adviser general mcmasters is lobbying to be appointed cheryl of the the join chiefs of staff
and follow in the legendary footsteps of colin powell. >> and go back into uniform. >> he is still in uniform. he's not retired, much like colin powell. so ultimately we'll see whether loyalty to donald trump pays off. >> as we know, donald trump skramd the advisory he panel. interestingly not a single one of the president's evangelical advisers has stepped away from him. more than that, a couple are defending his comments. >> what's left of economic he nationalism if you don't build this country back up again? i'm sorry. it was the one good thing of his whole platform i really thought was interesting. and labor would have supported rebuilding. i want to build a train to theblds left coast, east coast thing. that was my speech. thank you. we'll be right back after this. when you switch to progressive.
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we're getting word from police in catalonia that there may be an attack happening right now south of barcelona. claud claudio? >> reporter: yes, we just heard that the police are involved in some sort of operation in a town, as you said, bits two hours south of barcelona. they are saying this could be another potential terrorist attack. they are telling residents to stay home and stay safe. this is as much as we know for now. this is, of course, an indication that the danger is certainly not over here in barcelona, in the whole of catalonia, the region, of course, of which barcelona is the capital. because the driver of the white van that rammed through the crowd and killed as many as 13
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. trump watch, thursday, august 17th, 2017. a u.s. president siding with people marching amidst nazi signs and kkk regalia. let's keep our eye on the people in charlottesville, people dressed up as sports fans. giving up straight arm salutes. perhaps now that it is thursday the president senses trouble in those pictures, with him being connected with them uflt only get one reputation, kennedy warned us.
plenty of time for the impression to sink in that he is part of what went down last weekend. some kind of accessory after the fact. what do you think? you know how you can tell he's worried about being typed with the nazi stuff, he is changing the battle line. he says it is not about neo-nazis, it is about the monuments. let the buyer beware, if someone wants to talk about getting rid of the washington monument or the jefferson memorial, you're doing trump a big fat favor. this is "hardball." thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight -- >> the president has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability, nor the confidence that he needs to demonstrate.
>> republicans speak his name. the moral authority is come promised when tuesday happens. >> an angry president defends confederate culture and respowi to barcelona. >> there's a whole thing with pigs and swine. >> tonight, an isolated president spins out of control. then trump's chief strategist gives up the game. >> it will get worse every day. >> the stunning admission on race and the return of the russia investigation. >> russia is fake news. why a republican congressman is returning from his meeting with julian assange with a message for the president. >> this is fake news put out by the media. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. in the wake of another terror attack, thise