tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC October 2, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
number three, personal benefit or revenge. we see that. joe stack rammed a plane into an irs building some years ago. those are the three types that we see, and we just don't have enough information. by i'll tell you something. it's not unusual for people who are wallpaper -- >> we have lost communications with brian levin. we got enough there to know these three categories. and for those people who have been watching this story all day long into the evening, wondering, given his low profile, given his apparently normal-looking life, by most standards, what led this man to do this. our thanks, by the way, to brian levin. we'll have him on again. we now begin our midnight hour of coverage here on the east coast. it is 9:00 p.m. in las vegas. and continuing msnbc's breaking
news coverage of this mass shooting in las vegas. the worst in modern american history as we keep pointing out. brian williams here with you at nbc news headquarters in new york. since this tragedy we have watched the city of las vegas come together. we have watched blood drives that threatened to overwhelm clinics today. we have seen donations of goods and food for victims and families and first responders. so many items donated they had to politely tell people to cool it tonight. and then tonight multiple vigils in las vegas and other cities around our country. correspondent jo ling kent is back with us. she's at one such vigil location in las vegas. jo ling, the last couple you spoke to, when they talked about the dynamic, walking around this music festival, if you accidentally gave somebody a shoulder, ran into someone, you would turn around and say
forgive me, excuse me. just that it was a very -- it was a polite -- such a light gathering that was met with such a vicious and brutal end. >> reporter: that's right. that's exactly what they said. the couple we interviewed here at this'll which by the way is several going on right now in las vegas. the vibe is very much of love and friendship and an attempt to make sense of what has happened here. earlier tonight there were several law enforcement officers, las vegas police department officers coming through here. and they were met with hugs, they were met with applause, and it really was a plming sight to see law enforcement interacting with so many citizens here in las vegas. something i've really taken away from today is that this is a small community. it's a rather large population, over a million people live in this area. we're just a few blocks away from the strip where so much of the tragedy happened. yet people are still gathering
and they're giving even this late into the night, there's still water deliveries, food deliveries. people coming up to all of us here at this vigil to say hey, you need something to eat to get through this next few hours or do you need a puddle of water. that warmth is really reflected as individuals here in las vegas try to figure out what comes next. as they still learn the names of the dead. as they out their families and friends and friends of friends are being hospitalized at the university medical center. so las vegas tonight not yet 24 hours after this mass shooting they're coming together, they're trying to figure out what to do. what you need to know about the blood donations, if you want to donate blood, it's a pint every eight weeks. and what you have to know, too, is that blood expires. so las vegas nurses are saying please continue to donate not just this week, not just the next two weeks, but in the months to come. brian. >> jo ling kent, thank you for your reporting all day and into tonight there in las vegas. we want to welcome in now nevada
democratic congressman ruben kiwen who was with us earlier today. congressman we keep saying about las vegas it's in for a world of hurt, a period of great hurt and depression no doubt. i don't think that the tourism business is going to be seriously affected by this because this was such an obvious lone wolf. but what do you do about las vegas's image and reputation around the world given that it lives or dies on tourism? >> look, las vegas is going to continue being the entertainment capital of the world. we're not going to let this one incident by one lone wolf ruin our reputation. las vegas has always been a safe place to visit. it's going to continue being safe. as a matter of fact, it might be one of the safest places in the world to visit now.
we obviously want tone courage everyone, if you want to show support for las vegas, come visit us. come and stay in our hotels and enjoy our buffets and our shows. but you know, look, i'm very proud of our community here in las vegas. who came together. we're a close-knit family here in las vegas, and today we're not republicans or democrats or conservatives or liberals. today we're all americans and all nevadans. >> let me reflect to you the kind of frustration i've heard all day. and that is when this investigation is over, when they found every shell casing, every round, some of them will have to be dug out of the ground, they'll have to be dug out of pavement. some of them have ricocheted great distances away. there will be an after-action report. what on earth will we be able to do? how can we change the way we live? have public events outdoors as a result of this. >> reporter: well, look, without a doubt we have to analyze the
situation, see what we could have done better to keep our visitors safe. again, las vegas has always been a safe city. this is a once in a lifetime incident that happens. unfortunately, it happened in our own back yard. but without a doubt today we're going to be grieving those lost lives. we're going to be praying for those victims. but tomorrow we have to begin a discussion as to what do we want as a country to do to prevent gun violence in america. clearly it's an epidemic that needs to be controlled. >> what would you like the president to say when he comes on wednesday? >> we want the president to feel compassionate and feel sympathy for all of these victims. you know, we heard a very positive tone from him this morning during his press conference, and we look forward to welcoming him here to las vegas. and again, i'm just certainly hopeful that he feels compassion for all of these victims and
that he also takes an opportunity to thank all the first responders because there were so many heroes here today, people who risked your life to protect others, the doctors, the nurses, the first responders, the police officers, the firefighters. there's countless people here to thank. and i'm just saying i am so proud of our las vegas community for coming together. all of the people who have been going and standing in line for hours to donate blood. we're so grateful to each and every one of them. today las vegas came together. today we're all nevadans. today we're all americans. >> congressman kihuen of the state of nevada, a democrat, thank you very much for being with us. let's bring in at this point jim cavanaugh. among our very finest panlts we call on him all too often of late because we call on him anytime there has been a mass casualty event. jim is a retired special agent in charge at atf, a 30-year veteran there. he worked on among others the
unabomber case, the olympic bombing. the d.c. sniper investigation. let's just talk dimensions here. people have been asking about the line of sight distance between the room on the 32nd floor in the mandalay bay hotel and the event going on. we have a computer graphic to show it. knowing something about the caliber of the weapons that they have found that he was like ly using, is it a tough shot and does that explain why the shooting seemed indiscriminate? do you think he was using a sight? do you think he was as they say spraying gunfire? >> well, he was shooting into an area, brian, like he had a field of fire, military officers, you know, set their fields of fire on the high ground to, you know, keep the enemy back, to be able to use less personnel to stop an enemy infiltration or attack. he has a field of fire across
that street and onto that, you know, stock yaid as you describe it or box canyon as i called it earlier where the people are basically trapped. so he rains the bullets down in that encapsulated area. he doesn't really have to use a sight. he could have used a sight. but he can just get that weapon up on his shoulder. he could have it on a stand. and he just pulls the trigger and unloads the 30-round magazine. that's what it sounds like to me. repeatedly. he could have switched guns. he could have changed magazines. he had 23 guns up there. which that's unusual in itself. we're running into a lot of people with lots of guns at atf and just possessing that many guns is not -- i wouldn't even find that unusual. but to bring those all to the hotel room, a man only has two arms. and giechb the malfunction of a couple of guns, 23 is an inordinate number to have.
so i think that's something else plain in this guytion mind. i think we're looking for answers with this guy, too, that may be staring us in the face. it seems to me -- >> like what? >> well, i think the three things in this guy's life that really come up as important are gambling, guns, and this female companion. absent those three things, what else have we found out about this guy? gambling -- i mean, his life is gambling. his brother tells us he's a gambler, he's a professional gambler, he lives to gamble, he moves places to gamble, he lives in hotel rooms all the time. what does he do? he gambles. he gambles. that's his life. that's part of the answer here. the guns. clearly he's obsessed with them. to take 23 guns into a room, into a hotel room on a 32nd floor, it's like his own personal war. all these things give him power. he's at war with who he's mad at. i think there are some answers
there. it would be interesting to see if he truly was on a spiral of big losses and gambling that really had hit him hard financially. >> and i see where you mention the love interest because these are not boxes coming from amazon. this is 42 weapons divided between a hotel room and his home. >> exactly. it's a lot of guns. he's obsessed with the guns. he's obsessed with carrying them up there for a purpose. he has a purpose. it's strange to us. but you know, he may have lost so much money that was affecting him deeply. and i think tom winter and some -- pete and some of the reporters have dug out that he's gambling a lot of money, there's a lot of money transactions. let's see if there's a lot of losses in there. that doesn't mean the man's penniless, but it may mean in his eye that he's taken such a huge hit, loss that he can't come back.
and if he can't come back then maybe he's going to attack las vegas. he's mad, it's over for him, maybe his girlfriend has gone to asia. we don't know all the answers. and you know, he's either going to win all this money. gamblers have a funny look at life too. they lose a lot of money, they say i've got this last bit and i'm going to go win it all back. well, it doesn't usually work that way. that's why casinos are so big and elaborate. and you know, he might have -- his brother said he won $250,000 playing video poker. well, if you win $250,000 playing video poker, you're going to lose $500,000 playing video poker if you just keep playing video poker, and eventually this is going to catch up with you. and i think it's kind of staring us in the face. i want to see what the answers are there. and you know, people with a lot of money that are using it that loosely can be extremely greedy and they don't think they have enough. they have millions and they still want more, more, more. and this guy, i think some of
those answers, gambling, the gun obsession, and the female are this guy's whole life. and there's answers right in there. and that's where we're going to have to find him. i don't think he's a secret isis member or there's some secret cabal at work here. i think some of those things happened that he couldn't deal with it. either like i'm going to go back and win everything back and everything will be okay and i'll get my girlfriend back or i'm going to lose it and then i'm taking it out on las vegas. >> i know they're scrubbing his -- they're scrubbing his computers and hard drive obviously. so far no note, no manifesto. no kind of digital footprint. again, that we know of. but the feds' computer scrubbers are superb. and i guess, jim, what i'm missing, you have me in the argument, you have me in what gambling can do to a person, even what an obsession with guns can do to the person. the last drop of the penny that
makes him a homicidal maniac, was it event-specific? did he choose a country-western festival attended by 22,000 peaceful happy people on a beautiful sunday night? that's where i can't get my arms around this astounding final choice he made. >> right. that remains to be answered. i think it's a great question. maybe that concert was his target, or maybe just las vegas. i mean, there would be scores of pedestrians on those streets at any time, you know, if you were going to go out in a fashion. you could probably go out against a crowd in las vegas almost any time. so maybe it was that. maybe not. but something's here when you carry 23 guns up to a room, you stay there for three days, you have all this ammunition. you've been gambling real heavy and your whole life is
surrounded by gammage and an obsession with guns and this woman who's left on a foreign trip. so what else has this guy got? reading some of the reports in the "washington post" and the journalists have uncovered his life, i mean, his houses are just -- there's nothing in them. he just lives to gamble. his brother says he lives to gamble. so i think there's really something happening right there. and that's -- we're looking to other places. i think we've got to dig that out. the journalists will dig that out. the reporters will dig that out. and nbc's already on it. we're going to find some answers in there. it may not be comforting but it will be something. >> last question. because obviously he had grandiosity issues to believe your argument, i don't want to praise a guy in death for something he didn't do. you don't have to be a marksman to do what he did. you merely have to be able to pull the trigger. this was basically indiscriminate fire which paused only for reloading?
>> yeah. he's a total loser coward, no training, no sophistication at all. all this guy had was some cash. he could buy the weapons, he could convert them or buy them converted to full auto fire, and he can pull the trigger. there's nothing to it. you know, he's got blood pressure, he can pull the trigger, and he's aiming at an acre, half acre of ground within range of the rifle. you know, the last mass shooting in america where four or more people were killed with machine gun fire, i was in that one in waco. and they fired a lot of machine guns at us and all kinds of weapons at us and some of those were converted and killed four of ow agents. five of the davidians died that day. nine people died that day. and fully automatic weapons were used in that one. and that's the last one i remember as a mass shooting in america, with machine guns. but you know, this guy clearly was determined to kill. once he made that decision. and it could have been made clearly -- we don't know this.
this is just one possibility. but you know, at the gaming table. >> yeah. >> if he couldn't win the money back. and it is unusual when you talk to gamblers, they really do believe they can win the money back. but he might have said i'll win the money back or that's it, it's over. i don't see anything else coming to the surface. i just want to see the rest of the answers there. >> jim cavanaugh -- >> no skill -- no sophistication to do this murder. >> jim cavanaugh, who's as we say among the very best and has offered spotton analysis all day long, hour upon hour. always a pleasure. thank you so very much for being part of our coverage. >> thank you. we are joined by the freshman democratic senator who has the seat in the senate once occupied by harry reid. the democrat catherine cortez mastro. senator, i assume you were listening. my condolences to your state. i assume you've been listening to our conversation.
what do you make of the analysis by jim cavanaugh? >> brian, hi. it's great to be with you. you know, first of all, let me just say i just came from the family resource center. you know, the families that are still suffering, they're still waiting to hear word, right now i think it's more important that we are, particularly here in the community, providing comfort and reaching out to these families. as you well know, they're still waiting to hear and our first responders, our teams have been incredible. i just got down talking with the coroner and family resource center. they're doing everything they can. they've had help from the city of new york, from san bernardino as well. i mean, there are so many people that are coming out to provide assistance and make sure that the families here and those who have been injured are getting every opportunity -- every kind of relief and comfort and service possible.
and you know, i think that's the focus right now here in our community really is to do that and bring people together and start the healing process. >> two points i tried to make, senator. to your point, along the way in our coverage today, number one, to have witnessed but survived this will only for some people mean a life of trauma. because as they say you can't unsee or unlive what you've lived over the past 24 hours. that's one. two, to your point about first responders, there are first responders in this country who will serve their entire lifetime and never treat a bullet wound, never see a bullet wound, never experience a gun fired in anger. so between the people who lived, who are embracing each other and happy they're alive today, and the people whose only job last night in that all of ambulances, that wall of police officers and
doctors and firefighters, their only job was to save their fellow citizens, there's a whole lot of comforting to go around, senator. >> and brian, you're right. i came from unc, our university medical center, it's our level 1 trauma center, talking to the doctors and the nurses there. and they were just telling me incredible stories. people that were helping other people and how they responded and what they were seeing and you're right. i think there will be scars, emotional scars as well as physical scars for many people. those who made it out alive from the concert and then those who were wounded and then for the poor families who have lost their loved ones. it's going to be tragic. it's going to last for a lifetime. and that's why it's so important now that we provide whatever counseling we can and comfort we can. and let me just say this, brian, because after being on the ground here and talking to so many people i am so proud of our
community and the people that have come out to provide that comfort. and you said it earlier. they are coming out of their homes from all over just going wherever they can to bring water and food and donate blood. this community, the outpouring has been just phenomenal. and i'm so proud, so proud of everybody in this community and how they've come together to help others. >> two-part question, then i'll let you go, senator. number one, americans are famous for their generosity. they've just finished giving to folks in texas after a hurricane. and florida. they've given to their fellow americans in puerto rico. many are still trying to give to the effort in puerto rico. no doubt they're going to want to make a donation of some kind to las vegas. a, what do you need? b, what do you want to hear from the president of the united states on wednesday?
>> i'm glad you brought up the people who want to give. there's a fund me page that was started by the sheriff and the county commissioner here, steve sisalek. you can go to that site and contribute. already there's been over $2 million that has been contributed to that site that will go to help individuals here. and then also as the former attorney general here i want people to know that if they decide to donate funds make sure it's a legitimate place. unfortunately, i have seen where incidents like this people want to prey on it and defraud others of their money. so make sure that you're donating to a legitimate site and do your research when you do so. there's so many opportunities for people to really reach out and help others at this point in time. there's places to do so. and when the president comes here, i hope he continues his message of unity. it's time to heal this country. it's time to bring people together, to respect one another, to help one another.
we see this happening in this community now after this horrific senseless tragic incident that has occurred, and we need more of that rhetoric and talk of bringing people together and helping one another. >> senator catherine cortez mastro of the great state of nevada, thank you so much. again, condolences from all those watching, from all those here. better days will come. they may take a while to get there. but senator, thank you so much on this terrible night in las vegas for joining us by phone. sometimes the sadness doesn't let up. and it's not limited tonight just to this tragedy in las vegas. a lot of music fans reacting to the word, the confirmation from los angeles of the death of tom petty at the age of 66. died after suffering cardiac arrest at his home. tom petty, a member of the rock and roll hall of fame, 80
million record sales during his lifetime. again, tom petty dead at the age of 66. our coverage continues right after this. when you have a cold... stuff happens. shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. only have a sore throat? get long-lasting relief for up to 6 hours with new alka seltzer plus sore throat relief.
pay per gig and unlimited. no one else lets you do that. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. call, visit or go to xfinitymobile.com. there's no -- i don't know what else to say. i just -- i mean, it's his fault that he did this. but i'd like to know where he found the machine gun because that's not something that's that
easy to come by, i assume. and he's not -- i mean, he has no criminal record. he has nothing, nothing, nothing. no affiliations with anything. there's nothing. so -- >> can you describe what ran through your head when you found out it was your brother's name that came out? >> i thought it was somebody joking. i mean, if all my cell phones and house phones didn't light up at the same time with las vegas pd on them, i would have thought it was, you know, some dopey friend of mine making a joke. there's no -- there's just -- i mean, we're working with the companies since the first thing trying to, you know, trying to understand or trying to make it -- do what we could. there's just nothing -- we've got nothing to give you. there's just nothing. he was just a guy. >> just a guy. that's the quote that may live on from today. and remember, that's a guy who woke up this morning to a phone
call saying your brother's a mass murderer and your brother's now dead. and now today into tonight authorities have raided residences in mesquite and reno, nevada trying to uncover more about this suspected shooter, stephen paddock. with us tonight, reuters news agency reporter alexandria sage, who's on the scene in mesquite and now las vegas. and since you've been to both places, since you've been to where he lived and where he later carried out his final act, and i understand you heard the analysis of our own jim cavanaugh, what do you make of this man and what he did? >> it's very strange to spend part of the day in mesquite, which is about 90 miles north of las vegas. a beautiful, scenic retirement
community where paddock lived. and where people are driving around in golf carts and their beautifully landscaped golf courses. and then to realize what happened here in las vegas. there's such a disconnect between that world and here in las vegas. so it's very strange to think about somebody planning this in advance presumably from that location. 90 miles away. and then driving here to las vegas to carry it out last night. >> the point jim cavanaugh made about the psyche of a big-time gambler, even a small-time gambler, but the fact that you lay it on the line so often in your life so many times, always absolutely certain the next bet you place is going to win it all back. and maybe it was financial ruin
coupled obviously with psychological issues, a grudge, hatred of a certain subset of society. do you think enough electronic calling cards, do you think enough evidence will be unearthed that we will know? >> yeah. i think one of the things we do is always to follow the money trail. and that's going to be very interesting in the coming days to find out how he was spending his money, how he was gambling, you know, was he in debt suddenly that maybe triggered this or not. did he have some other problems we don't know about yet? so probably that's going to be a very valuable vein of reporting in the coming days. >> alexandria, thank you very much. you've covered a lot of ground today. we'll look for your work in print. alexandria sage with the reuters news agency. thank you so very much for
making time with us tonight. another couple who have been so generous with their time if you've seen any of our coverage at all during the day. a couple from the state of connecticut, joe and valerie yankis. they're with us by phone after a long night last night, a long night today. joe, let me start with you. you were at the concert last night. did i hear you say earlier today you are a career firefighter and so have experience as a first responder? >> yeah, i'm a retired firefighter right now. and you know, we've come across some horrible acts but nothing at all compared to last night. >> and when did you realize it wasn't fireworks, wasn't part of the show? no one can be blamed for ever thinking that because it's what we all naturally want to think when something happens. when did you realize that this -- you were in the middle of a mass casualty event?
>> i was twij of the other ladies in the media tent. she was like what was that? we were like jason aldean usually always does pyrotechnics. i said he's done it -- he was at route 91 two years ago. she goes i've got to see this. she walked out of the tent. i went out to follow her. and as we went out of the tent she was up ahead of me and immediately turned around and started running back toward me. she says, it's gunfire, run. so we went to the back of the tent. i didn't want to go out of the front because that was direct fire. we thought our best choice was to go behind stage and try to find some kind of shelter, something to protect us. >> and can you at this point pass the phone to valerie? because at this point it gets interesting for her. ms. yankus, your husband has been struggling with a knee operation that didn't go 100% right. you explained that he's got a brace on.
there came a time when he had to put you up and over a nine-foot fence. you are fleeing gunfire. what were you thinking? >> well, because of his knee and he was carrying -- he had a backpack on him as well. i just kept thinking there's no way, and i actually wavered on the fence trying to get back over and he literally pushed me over. because i just could not imagine how he was going to get over to the other side of the fence and i did not want to leave him there. i didn't know where he was going to go. i knew there was no way he could get over. luckily, he did. and there was some awesome younger gentleman on the other side that just waited for him and helped him get over. >> and you said earlier today you guys were so desperate and the gunfire's raining down from up high. you considered dumpsters, bleachers, any firm shelter you could get under, correct? >> absolutely. when they first started, joe had gotten quite a few of us under -- through the back of an
opening in the tent and we actually hit under a tractor-trailer and there were people trying to get inside of the tractor-trailer. when we were able to get over the fence and we crossed into a parking lot there were dumpsters lined up over there. there were these poor people. we got behind them. and there were people already inside of the dumpsters with garbage and then there was a gentleman pulling garbage out of the dumpster to put some ladies in there just to get out of the way. we can still hear the shooting. >> how many years have you been going to las vegas for your anniversary? >> this year will be our sixth year. >> and will you come back? >> we will definitely come back to las vegas. we will be -- i would have to say unfortunately a little bit more selective of an open venue. but we would definitely come back to las vegas. this is not anything to do with the city of las vegas. it's been amazing to us, and we truly enjoy it, and our hearts just go out to all of the people and all of our friends that were there and to those who were injured and have passed away.
>> well, i always tell people if you're in a fix look for a firefighter. you did that years ago and made a very good selection. you both did. best of luck to you. we'll be thinking about you. we're glad you're among those who made it out. so many didn't. but thank you for being generous with your time and your survival story with us today. a safe trip back to connecticut from las vegas. our thanks to joe and valerie yankus for being with us tonight. we're going to take a break. we'll go back to the scene we've been following so closely live tonight in las vegas. ys. tired of your bladder always cutting into your day? you may have overactive bladder, or oab. that's it! we really need to get with the program and see the doctor. take charge and ask your doctor about myrbetriq (mirabegron) for oab symptoms of urgency, frequency and leakage. it's the first and only oab treatment in its class.
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we want to go back to correspondent jacob soboroff, who's been in and around the mandalay bay hotel all day today. jacob, we were thinking earlier about the detritus of life that is now spread over a several-block area. some people escaped all the way to mccarran airport, which is granted, not far from the mandalay bay. other people went to other casinos. but they've been separated from wallets, purses, a whole lot of phones, and so on. how does that all happen? and how do the records of people's lives get updated? >> you know, i was just honestly thinking about that, brian. directly behind our live position here for msnbc is that outdoor concert venue where the
shooter from up on the corner of the mandalay bay opened pfeiffer down here on all the folks below. and people quite literally scattered, leaving literal detritus there on the ground. but then them oceanal detritus that is scattered throughout the las vegas metropolitan area. people most likely crossed over this area where we're standing right now when they started to run off of that venue looking for any safety they could find. many of them, as you said, went in that direction toward the mccarran airport las vegas international airport here, and then many of them were put on to buses. some of them ending up at the thomas and mack center unlv where we were legs than a year ago for the president presidential election, the presidential campaign. the idea these people many hours later made their way back dot mandalay bay after having survived this is obviously the least of their worries. what they're faced with now is
getting home, being allowed to leave the mandalay bay. it's not just for the folks on the 42nd floor like the man i met earlier today because we did see the fbi, local metropolitan police and lots and lots of hotel security up there because it's obviously an ongoing open investigation and a crime scene up there. but also the many people, again, tens of thousands that were down at that concert that pulled up their vehicles to the mandalay bay like many people do when they come to las vegas, park them with the valet, and left to have their weekend of good times here with their friends and their family. the reality they're faced with now is they cannot get back to their vehicles because there's an investigation going on in the parking lot. many of them cannot get their belongings back because they have been confiscated, taken out of rooms by the bell service at the hotel. so they have gone through this life-changing ordeal. thank goodness the ones that are in the mandalay bay right now obviously survived but they literally can't get anywhere. they have to be there for the
foreseeable future unless they're going to literally leave their belongings, leave things that are important to them behind them, and it's still -- again, we don't know. we don't know how long it will be, brian, before they can get back into their rooms, into their vehicles, and actually literally move on with their lives out here in las vegas. >> jacob soboroff, thank you for that kind of an update on the people's lives and the situation as a whole that we don't often think about, especially after an event like this. we're now joined by an old friend of ours, malcolm nance, who spent 35 years as a counterterrorism and intelligence officer for the government's special operations, homeland security and intelligence agencies. malcolm, why is it important if we're not doing an investigation designed to put someone away for life, why is the integrity of what became a battlefield, finding every round, finding every shell casing, why is it
important if there's no perpetrator left, if we're mourning these lost souls and hoping for the very best for the wounded? >> well, it's important for not-only only forensic purposes, having to find evidence for each one of the injured victims, but most importantly for lessons learned, that the s.w.a.t. forces that came in and found him inside the room, the shooter's room, for the integrity of the investigation, it's important to know where did the blast land when he shot it from his weapon? which weapon did he use at the time? there are other legal factors here which need to be taken into account. lawsuits against the police department is quite possible. the hotel. so there needs to be this integrity of the chain of evidence. not only that. you want someone to match up the bullets to the victims, to make
sure there wasn't anything else that could have occurred. and whether they were hit by ricochets. but that's important. >> is it important to you that this be called terrorism? and does it match your definition? >> well, you know, the definition of terrorism is an act of violence or political violence in which there's a political flaejz mimessage that transmitted outside the immediate victims. we don't have yet a political message that appears the gunman wanted to share with the world. at this point we have an edp, an extremely disturbed person, but the fbi this morning said they don't believe that it's related to terrorism despite the fact that there was a claim for that. until we get that political factor and a chain that links this. >> -- or i'm sorry to say that.
this shooter to a group or an ideology, right now it's just senseless american gun violence, of which there's quite a bit. >> we are using one shot that is new to us that is a high shot, a home video, amateur cell phone video taken from a different room at the mandalay bay showing the tiny people in the distance scrambling and some of them are already down. it is bone-chilling. malcolm nance, thank you so much for joining us. you always do too often, it's after a mass casualty event like this. but our thanks to malcolm nance. another break for us. when we come back, what we're learning about this dead gunman's father. including a life of crime that may turn out to be germane. and gordo's... everything.
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as we continue to look into this deceased gunman, joining us from washington, nbc news national security and justice reporter julia ainsley, who's been contributing to our investigation into this man's background. so julia, two areas i'd like to go into. number one, a lot of this information came out late in the day. tell us about the dead gunman's father. >> yes, that is something that has been coming to attention of course of reporters and of course to law enforcement as they search for what may be in this gunman's past that triggered such an event. the father of course was benjamin paddock. we know that he was on the fbi's most wanted list, top ten most wanted list in the '70s after he escaped prison. he was in prison for armed bank robberies and he was described then as being diagnosed as being psychopathic and having suicidal tendencies and believed to be heavily armed and dangerous.
of course when we're looking at a shooter who himself committed suicide, who also wanted to have a large amount of arms as well as money as we saw through his gambling habits, there seem to be some of the same patterns coming through with the son as we saw with the father. so during an investigation like this i've spoken to several people who were inside these rooms at dhs and the fbi trying to figure out what may have been the motive, what may have been the trigger here. something like this in his family is being discussed and is definitely on their radar. >> so part of the deep psychosis if indeed that turns out to be the case with the dead gunman, he was able through most of his life to walk the walk and talk the talk and live a life that after 64 years he is defined by his living brother as just a guy. so if you're going back to look and see what trail he left while on earth, you can as another
journalist suggested follow the money. you can do what we do these days, follow an electronic trial. there's nothing on social media, did he leave a manifesto, is his search history still retrievable. or you could look at his penchant for weapons. had enough weapons. 42 of them between the hotel and the house to overtake a small island nation as is his right under the second amendment. but it seems to me that's a pretty high number and all of those will have some sort of purchase history, correct? >> well, yes. they should. we've obviously been talking to atf throughout the day, and when they are tracing weapons, which they can do in a lot of weapons, they can make an urgent request to try to trace a weapon within 24 hours, which of course you would expect them to consider this urgent. of course they have a large cachet of weapons here, talking about 23 found in the hotel
room. 19 found in the home. and as one law enforcement official pointed out to me, it's not always as easy as going to a national gun registry because a lot of these purchases can be done privately. it can be done online. it could be done at a gun show. it could be done in the parking lot of a gun show. that is a private transaction for which a receipt is not always kept and it's not always recorded in a registry. of course it seems that mr. paddock did not have a criminal history that would have led him to conceal those purchases. so it could be a lot of these are very public and easy to find. and yes, that will be a trail that investigators pursue as well as the footprint he may have left on this computer. and they're going to have to look through all of these because there's so little online. >> julia ainsley, thank you so much for the benefit of your reporting. your journalism throughout the day. we appreciate you staying up this late and being on with us tonight. more of our coverage when we come right back.
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[ gunfire ] >> we heard the ts-ts-ts-ts. several, several, several times. >> we determined there was a shooter on the 32nd floor of the mandalay bay. >> it's coming from up there in the mandalay bay. up there at the mandalay bay. halfway up. i see the shots coming from mandalay bay. halfway up. we have multiple casualties. gsw. multiple casualties. >> they were firing from somewhere high, and they were unloading clip after clip after clip after clip. >> so it sounded like hundreds of shots to you? >> it was hundreds of shots. >> we have multiple victims, shots fired, right at the medical tent. we've got one shot in the head. >> there were 22,000 people down there, the sheriff says, when we looked down there last night before the shooting happened it was shoulder to shoulder. it was loud. people were having a good time. >> i thought i was going to die. i called my mom, and i called my
husband, telling him i loved him and that i didn't know if i was going to make it home. >> he was shooting everybody, and there was dead people everywhere. >> it was like, you know, is this ever going to end? >> i saw police officers, while everyone else was crouching, police officers standing up at targets, just trying to direct people, tell them where to go. >> there were some police officers that actually laid over the women that were there to make sure they wouldn't get shot at. >> one man able to create such carnage. the worst mass shooting in u.s. history. >> we stand here this evening and we're saddened and we're sorry that this happened and that this happened here in las vegas or anywhere. >> in times such as these i know we are searching for some kind of meaning in the chaos, some kind of light in the darkness. the answers do not come easy. >> it's a very difficult time.
while the sun is shining in las vegas, it is a very dark and black day. >> incredible. and incredibly sad at the same time. stay with us. our breaking news coverage we are live in las vegas tonight where doctors are working through the tonight, treating the 527 people hurt in the worst shooting massacre in american history. >> while the sun is shining in las vegas, it is a very dark and black day. >> reporter: a massive loss of life and hundreds injured. >> the worst mass shooting in modern american history. >> reporter: a gunman perched on the 32nd floor of the mandalay bay resort opened fire on concert goers. >> thought the speakers were