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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  February 16, 2018 2:00pm-3:00pm PST

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the terrible gun problem we have? or are we just going to wait for the next shooting? are we going to respond to this aggression from russia? and we don't know the answer to any of those. . >> we don't. but we're so happy to have you and to have you take a stab at it. there is no one better. my thanks to you, eugene robinson. i'm nicolle wallace. hi, chuck. >> hello, nicole. if it's friday, it's not a hoax. tonight, the russian plot against america. the doj indigts 13 russians, including putin's chef, all cut accused of interfering in the 2016 election. >> the defendants posed as active americans, advocating for and against particular candidates. plus, does the white house still think russians' meddling is somehow a hoax? >> nothing on russia, mr.
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president? and the fbi admits, it failed to act on a tip. last month that nikolas cruz wanted to kill people and could attack a school. this, as students lead this latest call for change in our gun laws. >> we have to ban assault rifles. they were illegal in 2004 and they have to be illegal again. >> i don't want any more people to die. >> this is mtp daily, and it starts right now. ♪ good evening. i'm chuck todd. here in a very busy washington. and welcome to "mtp daily." russian interference isn't a hoax, despite what the president has been saying for more than a year now. if there was any kind of a debate about that, that debate is over. and president trump's deputy attorney general is the one who ended it. rod rosenstein gave us the
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closest to what we'll get to a road map on what was a sophisticated, covert, intelligence operation against the american political system. ros rosenstein announced charges against 13 russian nationals and entities for trying to disrupt the 2016 election. >> the defendants posed as politically and socially active americans. advocating for and against particular candidates. they established social media pages and groups to communicate with unwitting americans. they also purchased political advertisements on social media networks. the russians also recruited and paid real americans to engage in political activities from political campaigns and stage political rallies. the defendants and their co conspirators pretended to be grass roots activists. >> this indictment is pretty much an instruction manual, if you will, to the social media aspect of the russian election meddling. we now have a better idea of who
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participated in the effort, how they attempted to have an impact on voters in the united states, and what they were aiming to accomplish. these russians, which include vladimir putin's caterer, even went as far as coordinating with actual american political activists, including communicating with some unwitting individuals associated with the trump campaign. the indictment does not allege that any american was a knowing participant in this part of any illegal activity. deputy attorney general rosenstein made it clear today that just in this indictment there are no willing american participants and he emphasized that a few times. but the white house seemed to take that to mean there is no american involvement whatsoever. and they released a statement that says in part, president donald j. trump has been fully briefed on this matter and is glad to see the special counsel's investigation further indicates that there was no collusion, all caps, their decision to put this in all caps, on official white house stationery, between the trump campaign and russia. and that the outcome of the
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election was not changed or affected. except actually, that's not what this indictment says. folks, a massive conspiracy to defraud the american democratic system was unleashed on this country. the president's opponents in the primary and general elections were targeted by foreign adversaries who sought to undermine the election in any way they could. this is simply the social media angle of their effort to undermine this -- the election process. and the president's statement did not announce support for sanctions or counter measures against the perpetrators. apparently mostly sought to simply clear his own campaign from any wrongdoing. president trump ignored shouted questions as he left for the white house late this afternoon. >> do you feel vindicated in the mueller investigation? >> mr. president, will you punish russia? >> do you feel vindicated, mr. president? >> will you punish russia? will you put sanctions on russia? nothing on russia, mr. president? >> mr. president! >> join us for tea?
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>> that stuff is always awkward. it's awkward having to be the shouter, it's awkward listening to the shouting. but sometimes the shouting tells the story. joining me now is nbc news' white house correspondent, kristen welker, intelligence and national security reporter, kim dell lanian, and former official at the fbi, now a contributor for us at nbc news to help explain some of the legalese aspects of things. kristen, let me start with you. there is a lot that's in the president's statement. i'll tell you what's not in there. there doesn't seem to be an indictment against russia, against putin, or anything about what to do next about securing our system. does anybody in that white house care about the indictment beyond its impact on the trump campaign? >> well, in conversations that i've been having since this indictment, the 13 indictments pronounced, chuck, i can tell you that there's a lot of pivoting going on. i've said, are you not angry? are you not upset? will there not be next steps that are announced? and the pivoting is basically
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saying, well, why don't you ask the obama administration? why they didn't do more to prevent in the first place. and, of course, the response to that is, well, president trump is the president now. so you're absolutely right. there's no mention of what steps he's going to take. no mention of sanctions. of course, we know that congress did enact sanctions, and the president has yet to enforce them. no call for a commission to deal with this. to make sure that this doesn't happen again, particularly in the midterm elections. in terms of the president referring to this as a hoax, it makes it all but impossible for him to continue that line of argument, of course. and i spoke with the source familiar with his thinking who said, look, he will not likely continue to call this a hoax, as john dowd, his attorney said. bob and his team did a great job from the president's perspective. and we're very happy for our country. in the wake of this. so i think you're going to see a lot of carefully crafted sentences, chuck, to try to get around the fact that he did, in
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fact, call this a hoax and what happened today makes it impossible for him to make that argument. and, of course, the big question is when will we hear from him? he's heading to florida. we anticipate he'll be meeting with the victims and families of that shooting in parkland. but no word yet on when we're going to hear from the white house. the last time they answered our questions was tuesday of this week. >> you know, ken, i want to get into the indictment itself on what -- where are we in the mueller investigation. this was a very specific and i think -- my guess is, chuck, you'll be able to speak almost to this, as well. of what do we know he's working on that wasn't a part of this indictment. so, for instance, this is the social media campaign. there was nowicki lea wikileaks >> and not obstruction of justice, either. i've been following every nuance of this investigation. there are things in there that surprised me a lot. as you have said, we have known the long times the russians used
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social media. we did not know they were sending actual agents to talk to people under false pretenses to gather intelligence about our electoral process. we did not know they were actually sponsoring rallies during the election. both pro trump rallies and kind of dirty tricks, like muslims for hillary and other kinds of destabilizing -- >> weren't real. right. it was a bizarre -- divisive rally. >> on social media. they actually wired money, according to this indictment, to set up a cage in which an actor portraying hillary clinton in a prison suit was appearing at a rally. so this was an absolutely extraordinary intelligence operation against our democracy. >> and very quickly, ken, i want you to tell me about one of the men indicted in this. and i -- it's a russian name, so i'll probably mess it up here. but it's basically a guy that's referred to as putin's chef. the lead caterer here. this takes it right to putin. >> look, we've reported a long time ago that vladimir putin was directing this operation. i mean -- >> the guy's name.
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prgozin. how did i do? he's the king pin of this part of the operation. the oligarch. >> the internet research agency was running the show. interestingly, the indictment doesn't say this was a russian intelligence operation. perhaps, chuck, because they don't want to have to try to prove that in court. but that's what the intelligence community has said. and that's what's important. >> so, chuck, this felt like a show indictment in this respect. everybody indicted, it's not in this country. this is a trial we may not ever see, because i'm guessing vladimir putin is not going to extradite these individuals any time soon. so what did you make of the detail that was in this indictment? it seemed like it was almost meant for us to all absorb it and learn from it. >> well, there's a simple answer and a complex answer. i mean, the simple answer -- and i don't really like the term "show." >> i understand that. but meaning an indictment that may not ever see a courtroom. >> yes, true. because either they're extradited or show up here demanding a fair trial or stay in russia for the rest of their lives. the last thing is most likely.
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there is a simple answer. why do you charge it then? the answer is because they broke our law. they broke the laws of the united states. why all the detail? that's a different and more complex answer. but we call those things a speaking indictment. and the detail helps, i hope, inform americans about how we were attacked. because that's precisely what happened. we were attacked. >> all right. what did you learn by reading this indictment about the scope of mueller's probe? i mean, we're all -- we all naked indicated guesses. but once again, the scope continues to be bigger than i ever think it is. every time i think i have an idea, it gets a little bit bigger. >> i agree with you, chuck. so what we see is that when the mueller team sinks its teeth into a piece of this carcass, they do an amazing job. there is a lot of financial and investigative work that went into this case. but we don't know what we don't know. and there's lots of pieces, i think perhaps many more pieces
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that we don't yet know about. time will tell. >> kristen, i want to go back to this. i'm just sort of stunned here. they put out this statement, and in all caps, it says, no collusion. >> right. >> i mean, do they not -- do they not grasp how this appears? i mean, do they not read shakespeare? it's sort of -- to lead with that and not with the shock and awe of russian interference with one of vladimir's closest friends leading an interference campaign, do they not grasp how this looks to people beyond their core supporters? >> reporter: well, and i think that you can almost hear the president himself saying to his team, make sure no collusion is in all caps. something you would expect to see in a tweet. and this president has been on defense from the start when it comes to this. and i think that's why when you talk to a lot of republicans, they get frustrated. they say, we don't want him to act like he's on defense. we want him to get angry and to
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do something about this. this foreign interference in the u.s. election. and, of course, what we know, the investigation is ongoing. and, of course, there are discussions with the president's legal team and mueller's team about when there may be a possible interview with the president himself. we don't know what form that's going to take. will it be written answers to questions, will it be an in-person interview? the president says he's willing to do that. we know there is going to be a robust back and forth about the format. this investigation is far from over. and yet this white house very focused on trying to make the case that this is case closed. when it, in fact, is not. >> and their social media people are clearly trying to do that. never mind we know the russian bots are at it again. can one of the more intriguing sort of dramatic read attentiine indictment is this part of it. on or about september 13th, 2017, calva rezina wrote, quote,
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we have a slight crisis here at work. the fbi busted our activity. not a joke. so i got preoccupied with covering tracks, together with the colleagues. obviously, this is their smoking gun e-mail when they caught this person. september 13th, 2017. that means these folks were operating in their minds unimpeded until september of last year. >> that's right. and first we should ask, how does the u.s. government have that e-mail? that shows you what resources have been brought to bear from all the intelligence agencies. and i'm told today the cia and nsa had to improve the language of the indictment because it included such -- >> how they could have gotten that e-mail. that is a -- that's -- chuck, fisa warrant for something like that? an e-mail like that, how do you -- there's only a few ways, right? >> that's a fair guess. there are other ways, and i can't talk about those ways. but i think that's a fair guess. >> the other thing, chuck, it underscores that this attack is still ongoing. the russians, as the intelligence chief told us last week, are still meddling through
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social media and the president is still hampered as a defendant in this case and can't act as commander-in-chief and respond to the attack. >> chuck, be the law enforcement official here. go to the -- you go to the president and say, what would i need? you read this indictment. how can you protect our election going forward at the fbi right now? how would you -- looking at all this, what would you want? what tools do you need now? >> as president? >> yeah. >> well, this has to be a whole of government solution. one of the things about this indictment is that we have now -- we have a vehicle so that people who care enough to read and see what happened can read and see what happened. that's important. i mean, that's one of the values of a speaking indictment. but this has to be a whole of government approach. state, local, federal officials, election officials, cyber security officials, law enforcement professionals, the intelligence community. have to study this, they have to learn lessons from it and put things in place to preclude it. >> i feel like we at nbc news
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have to learn, be careful on social media campaigns and our stories and monitor things. >> we all do. >> yeah. it is -- the vigilance here that this is going to take is -- >> but while this is disturbing, chuck, it's not all that surprising. i mean, we sort of knew this stuff was going on. but now it's in black and white. >> it is, and it's -- there's -- it's unimpeachable. it was done with such precision and detail, it seems unimpeachable. kristen, ken, chuck, thank you all very much. up ahead, what do today's indictments mean for the russian probe going forward? and the president's decision to just focus on no collusion? was that a smart tactic or not? we'll talk to the panel, next. woman: i'm a fighter. always have been. when i found out i had age-related macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. only preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute
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a big senate race announcement. first in utah, where former massachusetts governor and 2012
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presidential nominee, mitt romney, officially kicked off his long-anticipated bid to replace orrin hatch in the u.s. senate. romney is a virtual lock to win in a state where he enjoys widespread popularity from his work with the mormon church and organizing the '22 winter olympics. the question is, which mitt romney will represent the beehive state? the march 2016 mitt romney, who was ultra critical of then candidate donald trump or the mitt romney who flirted with becoming president trump's secretary of state? it's impossible to say now. but romney did seem to go out of his way to distance himself from the white house on immigration in his announcement video. >> utah welcomes legal immigrants from around the world. washington sends immigrants a message of exclusion. and on utah's capitol hill, people treat one another with respect. >> meanwhile, in north dakota, congressman kevin cramer agreed to take on heidi heitkamp, and
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is expected to officially announce his bid tonight, leaving republicans without a great candidate and a state that president trump won by 36 points. but it appears they got cramer to change his mind after getting, shall we say, plenty of phone calls from both mitch mcconnell and a lot of folks inside north dakota. we'll see what kind of difference he makes there. we'll be right back with more "mtp daily" in 60 seconds. ♪ when you have something you love, you want to protect it. at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust
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that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. where life meets legal. customer service!d. ma'am. this isn't a computer... wait. you're real? with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s., like me, anytime. wow. this is a recording. really? no, i'm kidding. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell. russia, russia and trump! convinced people about this hoax that was probably the thing that they did best. but it is one great hoax. no, russia did not help me. are there any russians in the audience? there is absolutely no collusion. that was a democrat whoax. >> the entire thing has been a witch hunt. that's your real russia story. not a story where they talk about collusion, and there was none. it was a hoax. the russian hoax. even the enemies said no, there's no collusion, there's no collusion. there is no collusion, absolutely no collusion.
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and nobody has found any collusion. there is no collusion. you know why? because i don't speak to russians. >> well, let me bring in tonight's panel. josh earnest, white house press secretary for president obama. and anne gearan and lanhee chen, former policy visoc adviser, st. miss gearan, i want to start with you. i want to ask you the same question i asked kristen welker. the reaction from the trump white house was focusing on the collusion issue, not on the interference issue. >> yeah. >> do they not see how that is a bad look? >> i think no. i mean, some -- >> they're ignoring -- >> certainly -- >> they are ignoring a foreign powers interference. >> many people for trump absolutely do understand that. the question is whether trump himself understands that and who is calling the shots. i think you pointed earlier and
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kristen did, to what appears to be an obvious dynamic here. no collusion is the thing the president is focused on. >> right. >> no collusion is the thing the white house statement is focused on. because it is the thing the president is focused on. and that's as far as it goes. >> the impact of the president not acknowledging was a pretty scary indictment to read when you realize how sophisticated just the social media operation was. >> we are in danger of burying the lead here, chuck, which is that the russians engage in a concerted, systematic and well-funded effort to undermine american democracy. and by the way, nothing new. they have been doing this since 2014, around eastern europe. they it did in latvia, ukraine, former soviet republics, western europe, as well. and now it's come to the united states. and by the way, it hasn't ended yet. they continued to be interested in disrupting american democracy. it didn't end with the election. there were periods of time after the election when these folks -- >> went unimpeded until
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september of 2017 when they realized, oh-oh, the gig is up. >> this thing is scary. and the trump administration needs to react and react strongly. >> you heard, josh. i will first let you play an old role, the spokesperson for president obama. they're saying ask the obama administration where they were when this was happening. now that you read this indictment, do you think, how much do you sit there and think, what more could we have done? >> look, i think everybody who was involved in this certainly asks themselves that question. look, the challenge that we were dealing with -- you showed the tape of donald trump during the campaign right there. he was constantly calling into doubt whether or not an election inside the united states could be conducted fairly. and there was this genuine concern inside the obama white house of appearing to look as if we were putting the thumb on the scale on behalf of the president's favorite candidate. now, that did not prevent the president, for example, raising this directly with vladimir putin to make it clear in a face-to-face meeting that these kinds of electronic intrusions were not welcome in the united states. and if he continued to do it, that they would face severe
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repercussions. putin after that warning backed off. we also put out a written statement -- >> really? >> he did. >> i only -- i question that, because wikileaks happened after all that. i think the hope was he would. right? >> what we do know there were efforts on the part of the russians to try to make -- to conduct intrusions into voter registration roles and other things that would interfere with the ability to actually conduct the election. >> you think they got them to back off on that part of the campaign. >> that has been reported that that is -- that the intelligence community did conclude that the warning did have the desired effect on that front. but there was a second step that was taken, chuck, which was also important, informing the american public that there was a unanimous conclusion reached by the intelligence community, separate from any political interference from the white house that is this is what the russians were trying to do. released on the same day that the infamous billy bush tapes came out. this probably didn't get the kind of consideration by the electorate that would have -- that could have potentially made more of a difference.
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>> all right. ann, so where do we think this goes next? i've got to think there will be some republicans on capitol hill that will go back at the white house on the sanctions issue. >> yes. i'll be looking to see whether the white house directs some kind of a followup here. we have had plenty of warnings, including in the last week, about what the russians are eyeing as far as the midterm elections and the 2020 presidential election. we heard very little directly from the white house about what they thought of those warnings. and what they plan to do about it. i thought the fact that the fbi made that warning very specific was clearly a sign that they are -- many people in the government are looking for that kind of direction. now we have this. which obviously many people who have spoken in the last two weeks knew was coming and we did not. this is -- this should be the road map. what do you do now that you have a clear map of how this --
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>> remember how the week started? this week started, and it's like every week in the trump era. but this week started with all of the intel officials during the -- during the threat assessment hearings laying out that the threat is still active. the threat is still there. does this serve as the one -- that's the one, and this is the two and the 1-2 punch? >> well, it only matters if someone is willing to act. >> and someone has to be the president. >> it's got to be the president. and by the way, what about the folks on the hill, right? the intelligence communities are busy. the committees are busy fighting with each other. the republicans are busy fighting with each other, not actually making policy that could prevent this were happening again. >> the thing that seems to striking to me, for a white house that is clearly obsessed by optics and looking strong, you look pretty weak when you're walking across the south lawn and people are yelling at you and there is not anything you're actually doing about it. you can imagine all the things the trump people might do to try to distract from the attention around the trump role.
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you could be engaged in conversations with the russians to sort of tell them to back off. even if it's not done at the presidential level. you could imagine a robust engagement with congress, where you would be saying, why won't we pass this legislation to shore up our voting systems. you could even imagine a situation where president trump or some other -- one of his lawyers comes out and documents all of the efforts that his team has undertaken to try to cooperate with the investigation or to get to the bottom of it. there are lots of other things we could be debating right now. in terms of their response. but right now there basically is no response, which lays bare the weakness of the trump response right now. >> and that response only exposes them more. they actually put the president in a more precarious position. >> i think that's probably the case. and this indictment actually gives a framework for an argument that has been available to the white house all along. which is something really, really terrible for our democracy occurred during this election. thank god we got through the election without it harming the
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things that we hold most dear. and by the way, i won. but this is a terrible thing, ask we should confront it. that has always been available. he can't -- he can't do that. because he thinks it undermines his victory. >> there was another group of folks in denial for a long time about the russian interference issue, which was our social media company friends. mr. and mrs. facebook and mr. and mrs. twitter. what i found striking about this is if you read between the lines, lanhee, in this indictment, it's clear once finally facebook did its internal and let mueller in, they basically then -- they were able to connect more dots. but facebook's initial denials probably did hamper this a little bit. >> and going forward, the question is, what are they going to do? are they going to work with government and private sector response? the question is, what more can they do? i know some of the social media
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companies have been saying they need to do more. but i still think more needs to be done beyond that. >> this is an indictment on twitter and facebook. and, like -- and the problem for them is, they clearly didn't imagine how weaponized they were, unwittingly. >> right. the other thing they didn't imagine is that so much of the stuff that was coursing through the veins of facebook and twitter was fake. and this was the thing -- >> how polarized are we really? >> right. >> i have to say, i've had this -- >> no -- >> maybe we're not as angry at each other. is this -- how -- how much of this is sort of them doing this to us? >> and how much of this is -- in terms of twitter's ability to continue to run a business, how are they going to get new people to sign up if so many of the headlines are covered in these accusations and a bunch of people on twitter are actually fake, saying hateful things you probably shouldn't know about anyway. i guess my point is, they do actually have their own self interests in trying to solve this problem, which does create
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an opportunity for them to hopefully work effectively with the intelligence community, with the government to actually solve this problem. >> you make a good point on the mention issue. i mean, you're right. it basically says, oh, geez. it's insulting and turns out it's not even real people? why am i bothering? >> and it turns out the russians actually sent people to the united states, which is crazy, the notion that they were here and at these rallies. >> i really feel for the unwitting americans here. because i'm sure many of them are going to feel -- like, that's just an awful feeling to know you were used. >> that is exactly the russian idea. >> the m.o. >> it is. all right, guys. you guys are going to stick around. talk another controversial subject on the other side of the hour. up ahead, could the next generation of voters make its biggest impact now? the teenage response, particularly in parkland, florida, itself. could they be the ones that actually change the conversation on the gun issue? ♪ ♪
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♪ very important conversation this sunday on "meet the press." after the deadly school shooting in florida, will anything change in washington? this time? we'll also discuss today's indictments and the latest on the russia probe going forward. it's "meet the press" on your local nbc station. first here is josh lipton with the cnbc market rap. >> thanks, chuck. stocks go higher six days in a
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row. the dow gained 19 points. the s&p added eight. the nasdaq lost 17 points. new home construction increased 9.7% in january. beating analysts' expectations. new building permits have also jumped to their highest level since 2007. shares of coca-cola got a boost after reporting better than expected earnings. company says water and sports drinks were the best-performing beverages. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. this new day. looks nothing like yesterday. roads nowhere to be found.
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welcome back. another major development today in the investigation into what is now known as the deadliest high school shooting in american history. today the fbi admitted that less than six weeks ago, someone called an fbi tip line to report nikolas cruz. the caller described cruz's gun ownership, his desire to kill people, his erratic behavior, his social media posts. all of that information should have been forwarded to the miami field office of the fbi, so that an investigation could start.
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it wasn't. the fbi said today it failed to follow, quote, protocols. fbi director, christopher wray said in a statement that the bureau is trying to figure out how the mistake occurred. florida governor rick scott is already calling on wray to resign. florida senator marco rubio says it's, quote, inexcusable and is calling for an investigation. as we have said, after shootings like this, there are some predictable calls for someone to do something to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. and again and again and usually it falls on deaf ears in washington. by this time, they seem to feel a little bit different because of who is saying it. >> i don't want something like this ever to happen again. i want us to take action. and i don't want this just to be another mass shooting. i want this to be the last mass shooting. >> i feel like he really needs to take into consideration all of this gun control. there's no reason that a kid, 19 years old, that's been investigated already, and not even a year ago, being able to purchase a ar-15. >> as much as i would like to
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focus on mourning, i would like to focus on everything that's wrong. right now we're in a state where we're being led by marco rubio and rick scott. i want them to know they're going to feel this in the polls. that's a promise. i genuinely believe that this is the end for them. >> this can't keep happening. there is so much wrong with this. i don't know how i'm ever going to get past this. >> that's been the big difference. student reaction on this one is unlike what we have seen before. joining me now is arne duncan. you may remember him from his days as secretary of education for president obama, but also a former school superintendent, he served as ceo of the chicago public schools. good to see you, sir. >> good afternoon. thanks for having me, chuck. >> let me start with the issue from a school superintendent hat that you have worn in your days. what's -- what do you want? what action do you want from the government? what do you think the superintendent of broward county schools is thinking now?
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everything was there. you had an armed -- you had armed police officer. kids knew the drill. they did everything they were supposed to do. people saw something and they said something. everything was addressed that we have been told should be addressed outside of the gun issue itself. >> so, chuck, the superintendent there in broward county is actually a very good friend of mine. bob runcie. they're an amazing family. and my heart goes out to them. he's providing unbelievable leadership. but this isn't just a school issue. this is a societal issue. as you said, this happens in churches, it happens in malls, it happens in movie theaters, it happens when congressmen and women are playing baseball on the baseball diamond. and so until we as a society move past praying, move past thinking and actually act, this will continue to repeat. but as you said earlier, i'm actually hopeful now. i think young people are going to lead us to where we need to go. young people often lead cultural change. they lead movements.
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you think of the civil rights movement. this takes a movement and these young people are so strong and so clear for all the heartbreak i'm feeling now, they give me real reason to be hopeful. >> it is interesting. i want to play actually a back and forth -- not just from students, but also a pretty angry teacher that you might not be surprised about. take a listen to that. >> as a society, you know, as americans, we're failing our children. we're not keeping them safe. and congress is failing us and the government is failing us. and something has to be done. >> i will tell you that students have been reaching out to me, reaching out to staff, probably board members and others. saying that now -- now is the time for this country to have a real conversation on sensible gun control laws in this country. i hope we can get it done in this generation. but if we don't, they will.
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>> it has been interesting. a member of multi -- multiple members of congress have been shot in mass shootings. nothing changed. we have had church-goers, nothing changed. first graders, nothing changed. i know you believe this is different. do you think students leading the march does change it? >> i think it changed our country in 19 -- in the 1960s with the civil rights movement. and i am again very, very hopeful that it will change us now. chuck, right now the sad truth, the harsh truth is i absolutely believe we value our guns more than we value our children. and these children are going to make us change those norms, change our behavior. this is not some natural disaster. this is a man-made disaster. we as men and women can fix this. many other countries can fix this. this only happens in america. it doesn't happen in any other country. we don't lack the intellect. we lack the courage and the will to get this done. and these children, their moral voice, their moral authority, i think is extraordinary.
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>> let me ask you another issue that i think does fall on the school systems themselves. the other thing about the school mass shootings pattern here. and it goes all the way back to columbine. there is -- it is always a young man. and it's always somewhere between 15 and 25. are high schools equipped with the counselors? there's clearly some vulnerable moment for young men that we're not intervening in, in time. >> i think that's absolutely true. and very tragically, the current trump budget looks to eliminate as much as $2 billion that could be used for counselors and social workers and after school programming and all those supports that schools need. so, yes, we desperately need more counselors and social workers and after school and support. and his budget takes us absolutely in the wrong direction. >> is there -- is there a way you can work around it, or is it has to be federal government? i mean -- if they didn't have cooperation, how would you work
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around something like that? >> chuck, this has to happen at the national level. so we in chicago can have all the strong gun laws that we want to have. that's not enough. but indiana, right next door is very porous. this has to happen at the national level. again, as a country, we either value our children, we want them to grow up safe and free of fear, or we value our guns more. and honestly, again, it's a hard thing to say. you and i, all of us as adults, we have failed our children. we have failed to keep our children safe, failed to keep them free of fear. i think they're going to lead themselves and us and our country to a much better place. >> the worst thing about it is the fact that how normalized it all feels to everybody. >> it can -- we can never -- we've got to be angry. we can think, we can pray. we have to act. we have to act. >> arnie duncan, nice to talk to you. appreciate it. thanks for sharing your views, sir. up ahead, why i'm obsessed with seeing double. you know, i used to be good at this.
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then you turn 40 and everything goes. tell me about it. you know, it's made me think, i'm closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. hm. i'm thinking... will i have enough? should i change something? well, you're asking the right questions. i just want to know, am i gonna be okay? i know people who specialize in "am i going to be okay." i like that. you may need glasses though. yeah. schedule a complimentary goal planning session today with td ameritrade. on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. does your bed do that? save 50% on the ultimate limited edition bed. plus 24-month financing ends monday visit for a store near you.
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have come together to hammer out a fix. and even though countless bills have been introduced, nothing changes. that's because both parties are divided on how hard to fight to solve this problem. both parties have to answer to their political bases, and both parties are divided along racial lines, along geographic lines and along educational lines. so what issue am i talking about? am i talking about immigration or am i talking about guns? guess what? i'm talking about both. and i don't think either one of them is going to get fixed any time soon. we'll be right back. roads nowhere to be found. and it's exactly what you're looking for. it's really hard to even think about her not being around... that's why i'm so grateful she got screened... and they caught the blockage in time. if you're over 50... call life line screening now and schedule an appointment near you.
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at planters, we put fresh roawhich has its, guys, know anything about this missing inventory? wasn't me! the cheeks don't lie, chet... irresistibly planters. . time for the lid. panel is back. all right, rick scott went fast on looking for a scapegoat i guess for the shooting down there, when the fbi announced that it failed to pursue a tip line, rick scott called for resignations saying in part, see
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something say something is an incredibly important tool and people must have confidence in the followthrough from law enforcement, the fbi director needs to resign. lonnie? >> easy way out. easy way out of a difficult political problem. he had answered the question the day before saying whether gun legislation was on the table, and he said that legislation was on the table. no question we got to figure out what happened at the fbi, but that does not excuse what needs to be done about the predicate issue. >> the fbi, what were they going to arrest him on? unfortunately, we don't have a law -- he hadn't broken. it was no doubt it had been better had they pursued anything, but there's no guarantee it would have done anything. >> the only thing they could have done is knock on his door and try to put the fear of god
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in him. he encountered the same thing with the pulse shooter, this was someone who was also on the radar screen with the fbi. the question is how long do we keep him on the radar, we check this guy out right now? he doesn't pose a threat, are we supposed to leave him on the radar screen for the rest of his life? and that's going to hinder or ability to go after others. >> you picked a bad week if you're the fbi. >> chris ryan looks like a hero, and by friday, the governor of florida is calling for him to resign. i think the fbi can't win this one, right? i mean -- >> the fact that they just owned up to it is probably -- >> we messed up here, but the obvious question is what happens next? and you're absolutely right, there is no -- there's no easy answer to the larger question
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here, which is how much of a surveillance state are we actually saying we should be? >> look, this is my issue, look, if he had gone through an fbi background check to work in the government, they would have looked at his social media post and said oh, boy, we better interview this guy closely. a background check to buy an ar-15 doesn't look at our social media posts and i'm not sure if it should or should not. we're going to get into a civil liberty conversation pretty quickly. >> to be credible in this day and age, you can't ignore a person's social network footprint. the way this conversation is migrating, a great segment on the kids because the kids are going to be greatly a part of this conversation. >> that's the one thing that it could change this discussion. >> the fact that it's reached our children now is so sad and such a testimony to where this discussion is, but it is going to migrate the discussion, the kids, the interaction on social
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media is so significant now, increasingly, we're going to have to go there. we just have to go there. >> the kids who are on television right now are the kids from douglas high school, and they've got very compelling stories to tell. but every kid in america is having this conversation at their lockers, in the parking lots, with their classmates, whether it's on social media or in person and it does feel like -- is this the obviously thing that needs to change to get us to a slolution? no, but could get some noticeable change that leads us in a positive direction? it could be, this is a large generation of americans, this is the largest cohort of voters out there, or potential voters. so seeing them being politically mobile i mobilized around this issue, is promising. >> some of these kids went to my
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high school down in miami, i was surprised at how much they know now compared to what i knew at that age. meaning there is a lot of awareness, because of social media, they're much -- this is sort of the way we were in college. >> you see it in their presentation, in these horrible fraught interviews, they are extraordinarily comfortable. >> surprising emotional maturity. they know what they want to say, they are completely comfortable in front of a camera, they're completely comfortable discussing things that are uncomfortable for adults and that -- i mean, there's some up sides to that social media. >> if you don't cut the gun issue from the culture on the right, republicans are never going to be able to move on this issue, right? >> i don't think so and i wouldn't think so, because it's such a part of the fabric of the republican party.
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you're right, it's a cultural issue, it's not a policy question. >> if a policy were a widget, it's easy to find the halfway mark and you would do tweaks here, and tweaks there. >> it wasn't that long ago that we did have an assault weapons ban in place, there are some things that need to take place across the broader electorate. but there are some things that have taken place and we have seen an increase in those kinds of attacks. >> the students were -- the sandy hook parents were pretty powerful advocates, but they obviously came up short, maybe these kids become this generati generation's advocates. - there's a common thread i see every time i'm in the field. while this was burning, you were saving other homes. neighbors helping neighbors and strangers alike.
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are unstoppable. welcome to the entirely new expedition.
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. well, quite a week, it began with the shooting, and mueller's indictment. the beat with ari melber starts right now. >> i have to ask you before you go, have you ever had a newsroom day like this? >> i don't know anymore. it feels like they're every day. today's day ended. >> we have been talking about the election meddling for well over a year. >> true. >> it now you have the case laid out, announced by a trump doj official. that's really something. >> it is something, there's no doubt about it. and to think, this is only a


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