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tv   MSNBC Live With David Gura  MSNBC  February 25, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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david gura. memo meet memo. president trump continuing to muddy the waters in the russia probe. no thank you. another phone call leaves mexico's president to cancel a visit to the white house. the defiant nra as companies continue to sever their ties after the latest school shooting, and the snake, the president appropriates a black singer singer's lyrics. we start this hour with reaction to that memo written by house democrats, which president trump claims confirms all of the terrible things that were done, but which congressman adam schiff, one of the memo's authors, confirms the fbi acted appropriately and russian agents approached two of the president's advisers and informed the campaign that russia was prepared to help by disseminating clinton e-mails. its focus, like the republican memo before that, is this man, carter page, and it gives us
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some detail on efforts to eavesdrop on him. fbi interviewed page several times about his russian intelligence, long before steele was hired to conduct opposition research on then-candidate donald trump. the memo also contends the fbi did tell a fisa court steele was hired by someone who wanted to discorrect donald trump. joining us now, jason johnson, professor at morgan state university, senior politics reporter, and chris. let me start with you this afternoon. what's your takeaway from this second memo that we got from the house intelligence committee? >> so, i think the most important thing is democrats make a case for the entire russia investigation in general. basically, they are saying that there was a good reason to suspect carter page, that the
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russia investigation is now limited to carter page, there's other people that the law enforcement is interested in, as well, and that they would have been remiss in not surveilling carter page. basically, democrats say law enforcement had no choice but to look into these russian contacts. >> when you look at these memos together, what do you come away with? we suspected what might be in this democratic memo. what do you get when you look at the two together? >> well, i think that the information that both of these memos is based on is still classified, so i think, once again, it's kind of a he said/he said situation. and i think until we see some of the underlying documentation that the fisa warrants were based on, we still don't know enough to really know which memo tells us the real story. >> jason, i want to ask you about the efficacy so much as we know about the efficacy of this wiretapping. of course, you have this warrant being approved, renewed three times. you know now renewed by judges
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who were appointed by republican presidents, what do we know about sort of the efficacy of the wiretapping of the surveillance? >> look, there's a belief the democrats obviously believe and the fbi believes valuable information was gained from the wiretaps, so that's the key issue here. it's an ongoing investigation, so the republicans push of, hey, get out your memo, we don't want the memo out, or this investigation should be over, this memo speaks against it. look, we got this drip of information, this drip of information from steele, all towards building a long-term case, but i have to say this, david, i think this is the most important thing we learn from this memo, the republicans keep lying. there's more to the story than what we're being told, and rather than letting the process go through, everybody wants to squelch the other side from communicating. >> i want to ask about what's going on with the house intelligence committee. we've heard they are building a wall on capitol hill, that you have the ranking member and the chairman who are not, to say the
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least, getting along well with this investigation. what can we tell about how they are working together, how this process is unfolding, from the back and forth over the last few weeks? >> i would say for starters they are not working together and these memos show once again that you have this really intense partisan breakdown between the democrats and republicans. democrats point to when congressman nunes went to the white house complex to view intelligence last year and then ran back to the white house the next day to, you know, quote, brief the president on information he learned at the white house itself. and since then you've really seen this breakdown and people have been involved with the committee for a long time say this is not normal. generally you have a much closer bipartisan relationship on a committee like the intelligence committee, and you really haven't seen that. and that kind of hampers the ability to reach a consensus on what's going on. >> what do we learn here about the timeline? something we learned from the
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republican memo, aside from the fact this is a warrant for a fisa wiretap here, they said the christopher steele dossier was used as grounds for the fbi's investigation. the democrats and their memo refuting that. what do we know about the timeline of this process? >> once again, it's still an interesting back and forth, because by the time the warrant application was made with regards to carter page, he was no longer a part of the trump campaign, and i think that's an important note to make, but i would also say again until we see the underlying fisa application, the timeline is still a little bit sketchy in terms of both of these memos. you know, i like to make the -- i like to say these two memos are based on kind of two people watching the same movie, but we haven't been allowed to see the movie just yet. >> i want to comment on that, as well. i talked to joaquin castro from texas this morning, he sits on the house intelligence committee. not only have we not seen the underlying documents, but members of the committee
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haven't, as well. as we look at this process, to your eyes, how's that complicated what's happened here? >> it's complicated what's happened here because you have two different motivations, right, you have the democrats who are trying to protect an investigation because they believe in russian interference and because they want to take down trump, and you have the republicans who don't want anything to happen. i've been at cpac over the course of the weekend. cpac gave nunes a courage award for trying to stop the russia investigation, so clearly there doesn't seem to be agreement here, it's more of just a partisan battle, but ultimately, again, i think the real problem is they have other jobs. this is the intelligence committee in the house, and just because they can't work together on this particular issue, what my concern is, how many other important issues of national security have been damaged by the inability of the republicans to trust the democrats, and i would hate to see our country suffer because they can't work it out over this particular issue. >> jason, thanks so much.
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to give us more context about this home mmemo, ned price. special assistant to president obama and senior director of the national security council. also joining me in new york, an attorney and legal analyst and contributor to "essence" magazine. as i see you nodding here. >> exactly. he makes an excellent point. you basically have to ask the question, okay, on today's episode of america's top memo. that's where we are as a country, and you have to ask yourself when you talk about the duelling memos, and i understand why the democrats felt they had to do it, because after you read both memos side by side, it becomes abundantly clear that the republican memo nunes wrote was misleading, left out important information, and it's important to note he said himself he didn't even read the october 2016 fisa warrant application, which just begs the question, what is he even
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talking about? but we have to be concerned as american citizens that this intelligence committee is not perhaps doing the work they ought to do. what about the other investigations they ought to be focusing on? what's happening with that? you have all these congressmen running around talking about this memo, that memo, this memo, which i get, but how much time is being spent on other issues of national security? >> ned price, you have republicans, the republicans in particular showing -- that's how the fisa courts work, how this process is supposed to work. what's the takeaway from all this, the back and forth that we've seen? >> david, i would actually go back to something one of your previous guests said and disagree with it. this is not a case of he said/she said. this is a case of nunes claimed and schiff came back with the devastating body blow in the form of a ten-page memo that point by point refuted what was in the nunes memo. you take a look what chairman
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nunes was trying to do, it was not about fisa reform, not about surveillance abuse. in fact, devin nunes has always been a cheerleader of fisa and the intelligence community, including electronic surveillance. so this has been a canard the whole time, a total she rachara. what this was about was trying to discredit the mueller investigation by claiming our law enforcement and intelligence professionals illegally used this dossier to wiretap an american citizen. what the schiff rebuttal makes very clear is that to the extent any information from the steele dossier was used, it was used narrowly and the court was apprised by the basis of the information, including the political context in which it was provided to the fbi. adam schiff has done a great service to not only the fbi, the department of justice, intelligence community, but also the american people by releasing this memo and in so doing,
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reassuring us that our law enforcement and intelligence professionals are meticulously following the law and protocols here. >> ned, i look at this recent memo and see the redactions. i want to place this in the broader conversation about classification, about clearances, certainly something taking place in the white house right now. what are the consequences of all of this, shedding new light on the fisa process, what are the consequences to how we view and understand classification in this country? >> i think you have to go back to the period before the nunes memo was released and remember at the time the dire warnings from donald trump's department of justice from christopher wray, the fbi director, all claiming the release of the nunes memo having grave consequences for our national security. and those were not hollow claims. in fact, even the democrats on the house intelligence committee were not eager to release the nunes memo, but also didn't want to release their own memo. if they had their druthers, they'd remain both memos secret,
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because by authorizing the release of information about the fisa process, about all that goes into fisa warrants, you can have a couple devastating effects. one, the intelligence community could be less willing to share information if there is a precedent for congress releasing their information willy-nilly. and, two, these are important tools the intelligence community has at its disposal, including the power associated with the surveillance act. if an intelligence operator or analyst were to feel should the political winds change and a fisa application, for example, were to be made public in a political context, that he or she would be under the gun, you could certainly imagine some of our intelligence professionals thinking twice or not moving forward at all before filing a fisa surveillance warrant. and we have to remember what fisa does, protects against foreign spies, terrorists, prolifera proliferators of weapons of mass
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destruction. it needs to be used judiciously as it seems to have been in this case. >> last question to you, investigations are happening in parallel. he faced headlong a long and expensive legal process, paul manafort saying despite all this, he plans to maintain his innocence. what do you make of what happened on friday last week? >> what i make of it, mueller is doing a spectacular job in how he's strategically deciding who to go after and how to go after each one of these individuals who were alleged to have some role, whether it be in defrauding the united states or their role, if any, in russian interference with the 2016 election. rick gates is correct. i have worked on some of these investigations at my old firm. they are expensive, they take a long time, and in terms of legal fees, i assure you the only
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people winning in this investigation are the attorneys, because they are making a ton of money. but for someone to stand up in court and go through the process of what's called allocution, where you stand before a judge and say, yes, i did this, did this, yes, i am pleading guilty to these charges and understand the charges, that's a huge deal. that's a huge deal. for you to come from saying i'm going to maintain my innocence and then to say i'm going to plead guilty, and these aren't minor charges. these are all felonies, federal charges that carry sentences in jail. so i think that there's a lot more that we're going to hear. i think rick gates is probably going to be providing additional information to mueller, and the saga will continue. >> there you go. thank you very much. why president trump's promise to his base is hurting relations with mexico and its president and the lasting implications it could have along the border. i'll ask the former governor of new mexico bill richardson.
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welcome back. i'm david gura. a heated phone call between two world leaders, donald trump and enrique nieto. both leaders could not agree on who would pay for the wall that president trump has promised to be built along the u.s.-mexico border. that heated 50-minute phone call on thursday wound up to nieto cancelling his visit to the
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white house, vowing mexico will not pay for the wall. bill, i want you to react to this report in "the washington post" this morning. the president continuing to lobby for and say this wall needs to be built. i should say the administration in mexico maintaining they are not by any way going to pay for this wall. >> well, it's a needless flap. u.s.-mexico relations are now in the toilet again. this is one of our most important relationships, along with great britain and canada, all suffering because of the president's inability to even have a civil phone call. this is a big issue in mexico. president trump is not popular there at all. the wall is immensely unpopular. it strikes at mexico's nationalistic feelings, and i think president pena nieto wanted to say to the president, look, just don't bring this up. we can talk about nafta, cartels, immigration issues,
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just leave that issue off the table. the president probably refused, talking about who's paying for the wall, and now you have a huge flap and historically a mexican president always comes to the united states the first year of an american president, and this isn't happening, so the relationship is really weakened. >> what is the episode say to you about the prospects for their being immigration reform? this has been an issue or part of the issue that president trump has been unwilling to let go of. we are speeding toward that march 5th deadline, and i wonder sort of how much optimism you're able to retain. >> well, i try to be an optimist, but it doesn't look good. the daca extension, as you mentioned, early march. these are thousands of american kids that some military teachers that are going to be dispossessed, may be deported. no resolution about an immigration bill, about even border security.
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you know, the president needs to separate these issues. and what is, i think, most damaging here in this flap phone call, david, is that this is a presidential election year in mexico in july, and what the president is doing is stoking the fears of the candidates that are most to the left that may be most anti-u.s., giving them an issue. so this is why president pena nieto didn't want to raise the issue, overdo it, because it's right in the middle of a presidential election in july, which whoever is president with mexico, we want a good relationship with that president. >> there is this report here that north korea is open to having talks with the united states. i just want to read a bit from the statement from the white house today, "president donald trump's administration is committed to achieving the complete, verifiable and
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irreversible denuclearization of the korean peninsula." when you look at the overtures of the south and the north, the participation in the olympic games, what do you make how the white house has responded in particular? >> well, it's mixed. i'll give the administration credit for not leaning excessively on the south koreans when the south koreans got invited by the president of north korea, by the visit of the north korean leader's sister, the temperature at the olympics was not as good as it should have been. i think vice president pence might have just smiled at the north korean sister, who is a major player, but i am encouraged. i am an optimist. i think this talk about the north koreans saying we're ready to talk to the u.s. now, so let's do it. let's talk to the north koreans without any preconditions. maybe the two secretaries of
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state deciding let's just talk and see where we go from here. that would be a positive step. >> my last question to you is i want to get your sense of who's leading the initiative here for the administration, ivanka trump being sent to south korea for the closing ceremonies of the games. you mention vice president mike pence who traveled for the opening ceremony, nikki haley has been spearheading that at the u.n. and your old job as the u.n. ambassador to the united nations. who's the point person who you're listening to when you want a sense of what this administration's policy is toward north korea? >> well, they are all sending mixed messages. they all have, it seems, their own. i would like to listen to rex tillerson, the secretary of state. this is the domain of the department of state. it's called diplomacy. let him and the north koreans work out a modality that they are going to meet. instead we have these statements from the president, the tweets,
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the threats. i think ivanka trump's trip, i think that was a smart move. in other words, countering the daughter of kim jong-un, the sister, i think that was a smart move. i wish she'd get a security clearance, permanent one, because she's obviously being used for diplomatic reasons and she may be an asset here. this whole issue of security clearances at the white house needs to be resolved. everybody should have one. this is sensitive diplomacy when you're sending your daughter and you're the president to talk to a foreign head of state, the president of south korea, making statements about sanctions, you want to have a modality of security clearances that tell you how to use this sensitive information, too. >> ambassador richardson, thank you very much. former governor of new mexico, bill richardson. coming up, what the sheriff
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of broward county is saying about reports his deputies never even entered the building while it was under attack. and more fallout for the nra. the latest companies pulling their support. thread i see every time i'm in the field. while this was burning, you were saving other homes. neighbors helping neighbors and strangers alike. - this is what america's about. - sometimes it's nice to see all the good that's out there. bringing folks out, we have seen it in community after community. you or joints. something for your heart... but do you take something for your brain.
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welcome back. at this hour, parents and students attending an orientation at marjory stoneman douglas high school. local law enforcement is also being scrutinized as we're learning three deputies remained outside the school during that shooting. >> at this point, i have no independent knowledge from video or personal knowledge that any broward sheriff's deputy did not go in when they should have. >> video did not show it or you have not seen it? >> i did not see any video that shows deputies or police officers in any area not going in. >> meanwhile, the nra is continuing to lose ties to many companies. i want to bring in my panel now, tiffany shu and seema mody of cnbc. tiffany, what kind of relationships did the nra have? what kind of companies was it working with? >> everything from insurance
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companies, to airlines, to hotels. it's really across the board. they had discounts for really anything you can imagine, like home security products even. >> seema, what have we seen here over the last few days? there have been survivors of the shooting tweeting at or mentioning companies on social media. what have you made of the changes that we've seen and how quickly they've happened? >> i think for the first time corporate america is responding to the public pressure and participating in this heated discussion around gun control over the past couple of days. iconic brands from hertz, avis, delta, joining the discussion and saying we're going to sever ties with the national rifle association. it's seen as a small but powerful step in the right direction and says corporate leadership is prioritizing social responsibility much more now than before. >> tiffany, when you look at the way you communicate with companies now, if you miss a flight, you can tweet at your airline and get a response, there's an awareness, as you say, you have to pay attention to what's happening on social
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media. is this that just magnified? >> absolutely. i mean, this is like a litmus test for how relevant the nra and gun owners are to corporate america. if you look at some of the demographics, which a lot of companies are considering now, only about 30% of american adults own guns, but that's actually a sizable number of a lot of these customers that these companies are dealing with. so they are thinking about a very complicated calculus now as they consider whether or not to break ties with the nra. >> i want to read quickly from a statement the nra issued yesterday after this started to happen or snowball, let it be absolutely clear the loss of a discount will scare nor distract one member from our mission to stand and defend the individual freedoms that have always made america the greatest nation in the world. seema, you've seen this before with activists, investors in particular, folks want to take a stand, even if the economic costs and benefits might not be that great. how different is now? >> i think the response from some of the major corporations
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has shifted the focus to financial institutions, from banks to credit card processors that facilitate the transactions for these gun makers that allow consumers to walk into a gun store and buy a gun with their visa credit card. so the focus is now shifting to these financial institutions that can play a powerful role in potentially limiting or putting more pressure on the gun industry. >> great to speak with both of you, thank you very much. duelling parodies, democrats, republicans, face off from gun control to declassified memos. what will it take for lawmakers to come to some sort of compromise on capitol hill? and after the break, tom perez will join us live to weigh in. stay with us. looks nothing like yesterday trails are covered. paths aren't what they used to be. roads nowhere to be found. ( ♪ ) and it's exactly what you're looking for.
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that coach who was so brave, who ran into gunfire to protect the kids, if he had his gun concealed, if he had his gun, he'd be alive today. most of the people, it would be a whole different story. >> that was donald trump talking last night on fox news. republicans and democrats duelling over a couple of high profile subjects, gun control and fisa, the president's comments last night on fox in sharp contrast to what he said in a tweet dated may 2016, "crooked hillary said i want guns brought into the school classroom. wrong!" with students adding their voice to the debate nationwide, how likely will it be different this time around? filip, let me start with you. i brought up the historical a
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artifact there. we don't have a ton of specifics, but this is the policy point he continues to hit on, he wants to see in his words gun adept teachers armed. >> i think just the term tells you off the bat it's probably the worst idea in human history, but what's interesting is these last two shootings have presented a problem to the nra and the republican party, particularly parkland, because usually they get to say the killer circumvented gun control laws, so, there are, there's no point in having gun control laws. forget about the fact that's an odd argument. in this case, mr. cruz obtained his weapon legally, despite being 19 years old, and the weapon itself, despite being a combat assault rifle, was also obtained legally. and i think that forced them to create this new hardened school concept, which again is folly on
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its face, and i think wayne lapierre knows that. when you look at what he said at cpac, that's a man who's scared, because this is not the typical two-party duel, thankfully, because the democrats tend to lose duels with the republicans on gun control. this is one where there's a third party, and that third party are these remarkable students, who have a moral authority that the nra can't handle. >> on that point, i assume you were watching when your former boss was at that cnn town hall earlier this week on gun control. one of those students asked if he would refuse all contributions from the nra, and he didn't give him a definitive answer. he backed away from it, saying people buy into, his words, his platforms and ideas. what were you thinking when you watched marco rubio, the senator, respond to that question from a student in florida? >> first of all, i think you have to give senator rubio credit for showing up and being in the forum. there were others who decided not to. he stood there, answered tough questions. i think he presented a
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reasonable point of view regarding his own view regarding changes to gun laws and things he might be in favor of, but more broadly i do tend to agree for republicans this is becoming untenable to continue to do nothing on this particular issue. the question is going to be what that something is. is that something going to be impactful and meaningful, given where we are? i think the challenge is that some people just want something, anything done, and i'm not sure that is what we need. ultimately what's needed is a broader discussion about gun safety generally, about mental health issues. i'm not sure if the congress is in a position to have that, but the danger of doing anything is that you relieve the hydraulic pressure to get bigger and more important things done. i think that is the broader question. >> i'm going to disagree with you that he answered the questions, i think he fielded them. i want to ask you, where do you see this being different? you have lawmakers coming back to washington this week, presumably they'll deal or begin to deal with gun policy issues. how do you translate that
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zeitgeist, that feeling something needs to change or might change to policy in washington? how do you make this moment different? >> well, i think the moment is making itself, both because of the students who are, frankly, more articulate and compelling than any of us adults. two, corporate america and the form of these airlines and banks are severing their ties to the nra, and lastly, polling. i mean, the republican party has a real problem with this. its own people, its own base, are not approving what the president is doing or not doing on gun control. again, i think because this is such an obvious answer on its face, first and foremost, raise the minimum age to buy a weapon of this sort, and what you're seeing about senator rubio being wishy washy. the one thing he was not wishy washy about, the state of florida should raise the age to 21.
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it's an untenable position for anyone in the congress to say there's a reason to not do that. i have yet to see any answer that is even remotely compelling. the one i've seen is, you would therefore be making 19-year-old cops and people in the military unable to buy personal ar-15s. if that's the best they can do, they have a real problem when they get back to congress, when they get back and try to run the typical nra playbook, which is to say -- to falsify the moral high ground and say, we can't talk about, you know, gun control when gun control has, you know, when people are still grieving. when, in fact, it's not too early to talk about gun control. it's too late to talk about gun control. >> lonnie, i'm going to talk to toe tom perez. how keen are you to close that chapter, would you like to move on? as you talk to voters and look what the policy platform is
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going to be in 2018, where does secrecy in the fisa courts factor in? >> well, look, i think both of those documents were fundamentally political documents and once we begin to see them for what they are, we can hopefully move on in this debate. i think the original republican memo exposed concerns regarding the fisa process. the democratic memo had responses to that, but more broadly you ask a great question, which is are voters going to care about policy agendas going into the fall? i certainly hope they -- i think the challenge for democrats going into november is it's not clear they have an ynd agenda a all. i'd be curious, because it seems to me that democrats thus far at least have been campaigning as the anti-trump party, which perhaps is a fine posture in some states, but more broadly i think the lack of an agenda is going to hurt them. yes, i think the policy issues matter. i think republicans are going to have to articulate something on
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guns, that's one issue, but beyond that they are going to have to articulate after the tax cuts what comes next, is it infrastructure, some other area, but that policy is going to matter. >> thank you very much. joining us now, tom perez, former labor secretary under barack obama, current chairman of the democratic national committee. tom, i want to go back to something said a moment ago, that is you have a group of young people who survived a grieve yo grievous attack, doing and saying more than politicians are able to do. i wonder how you, one of the persons leading a political party reacts to what we've seen over the last week or so. >> well, i'm inspired by it. they have led in remarkable ways, and washington needs to listen, tallahassee needs to listen, other state governments need to listen. this debate shouldn't be about republicans and democrats. it shouldn't be about right versus left. it's about right versus wrong.
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it's the fact we're the gun violence capital of the world, and what youngsters are saying loudly and clearly is, we need to change that. and what the majority of the american people are saying is the same thing. common sense second amendment freedoms can coexist with common sense gun violence prevention measures. and that's what we have to do, david. we can do this, and this momentum that our young people are giving us is remarkable and indispensable. >> mr. chairman, i spoke with david hogg yesterday, a survivor of that attack, and i said how interested are you in talking to politicians, and he said he's keenly interested in that. he would love to talk to pl t s politicians, he has been. what are democrats going to do and show they are listening to what these young people have to say? >> well, we've been listening in the democratic party. march 24th there will be a rally here in washington. >> you'll be there?
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>> absolutely. there will be half a million people here. and just as women led the resistance in the aftermath of the trump election, i believe that the next generation is going to lead the resistance here. and break this log jam. you know, the challenge here, david, is the nra doesn't reflect the views of its membership. common sense gun violence prevention measures enjoy their support of the majority of the american people, and we need to break this nra stranglehold, and that's exactly what the next generation is doing, and that's why i strongly support their efforts, and i will be there side by side and we are there now. >> tom, over these last few days, just to pivot a bit, we've seen the president talk about daca, laying blame at the feet of you and your fellow democrats. yes, that deadline looms large. he's saying it's the democrats who are not making strides here to fix that issue or get us to a solution on that issue. what do you say to him and what do the next few days look like?
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i can count the number of days left here before march 5th on one hand. >> that is so remarkably false what this president said. this president created this false crisis of daca so that he could take hostages, because he understood that democrats and, frankly, the majority of the american people once again believe that dreamers should have a pathway to citizenship, and he is using this hostage taking in such unconscionable ways. and that is just plain wrong. and by the way, march the 5th is an illusory deadline. he made that up so he could again do this hostage taking. we have had two courts that have upheld the legality of what president obama did, and what this president needs to do is go back to his first offering, which was a clean dream act. he is all over the map on dreamers. just as i'm sure he'll end up being all over the map on gun
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violence prevention. >> very quickly here, if we get to march 5th and there's no deal, what's your sense of what happens to these hundreds of thousands of individuals? >> the court has enjoined action to remove them. so assuming that we have the rule of law instead of the rule of trump, nothing should happen to these individuals, and i know what we have to do as democrats, we need to win more elections. because when we put democrats in congress, democrats in the u.s. house, u.s. senate, this will be solved. >> tom, thank you very much as always, tom perez, chairman of the dnc joining me from washington. president trump revives one of his campaign favorites while revisiting cpac, but it's not sitting well with some. >> this is called the snake, and think of it in terms of immigration, and you may love it or you may say isn't that terrible. >> after the break, we'll talk to the daughters of the man who wrote "the snake" about the president's appropriation of his father's poem. than our name suggests.
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take me in, o tender woman, sighed the vicious snake. i saved you, cried the woman, and you've bitten me.
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heavens why. you know your bite is poisonous and now i'm going to die. oh shut up, silly woman, said the reptile with a grin. you knew damn well i was a snake before you took me in. >> rarely see president trump reciting poetry, but that was his latest performance of "the snake," written by the late oscar brown jr. that trump converted into an anti-immigration folk tale. president trump may be surprised to know that his go-to camp fire fable was written by a former communist party member from chicago. possibly explaining trump's omission of mentioning who originally wrote "the snake." brown's family has had enough and wants the president to stop appropriating their father's work for prejudice. joining us now, the daughters of
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oscar brown jr. i know you're a singer, president trump has used this to talk about immigration, migration, used it to talk about terrorism, as well. when you read those lyrics, what do you think about? >> well, when i see him doing it, i know that he is stealing, first of all, he's stealing. oscar brown jr. wrote those lyrics. he's stealing and he's twisting oscar's meaning to serve his own campaign and climate of intolerance and hate, which is the opposite of what the original author, oscar brown jr., intended. >> he's perversely using the snake to demonize immigrants. my father never had anything against immigrants. he did albums with people from around the world, finding a new friend, he was always standing up for people and not about
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separatism. >> what recourse do you have at this point? it's clear you don't like the president quoting from the text, he's not making money off of it. you've registered your displeasure. is there anything you can do? >> i don't know if there's anything we could do accept shine light on the fact that oscar brown jr. wrote the snake. >> not donald trump. that man covered the tune, that's like saying ella wrote paris or frank wrote new york, new york. no, he covered the tune. oscar brown jr. was a profound, prolific artist, he said that with the grace of god you need never fire a shot. he wasn't against guns in the schools or guns in any of these things or stuff donald trump stands for. it's very, extremely ironic. >> and it's an insult to the deep respect for humanity that inspired everything our father stood for in his work, in his life. >> maggie, i want to get into that more here, he worked with
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max roach, nina simone. tell us about who he was. you mentioned some of his political positions, but for those who don't know of your father, tell us a bit about him. >> well, while he started out trying to go towards politics to effect change in his community, that didn't stick, but he had the writing book and he began writing a musical called "kicks and company," which was historic, the first play to be in mccormick place, and always oscar brown jr. was outspoken. that was a convenient word i always used, outspoken, and he stood up for his people and at times in the '60s when he hit the scene, he was the grandpa pa rapping on top of all that, got the black stone rangers on his team. >> that's right, and he wrote songs about brown baby, he wrote anthems. >> 40 acres and a mule. so he spoke up. he spoke up and spoke out, and it was at a time they were basically killing leaders,
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assassinating people who were galvanizing momentum of the thought of the masses of people. so oscar was conveniently blackballed, literally, from the recording industry, he was suppressed and stifled and now -- >> it's such an insult, because this man is now taking his music and using his words to promote his message of hate and intolerance. >> trump's message of hate and intolerance, right. >> and not giving our father the due credit. and what else is important besides if you write some words, somebody is supposed to recognize it. he's recognizing it by using it obsessively. >> and acting like it's his hit tune now. people beg me to do this now. okay, that is super insulting. oscar brown jr. wrote the snake, not to deal with immigration. >> that's right, that's right. it's not fair for him to use it like a rock star. >> for his rock star status. >> i would like the people who really want him to read the
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snake and want them to know what he was about. if they knew what our father stood for -- >> if they knew what oscar brown jr. was about, they wouldn't want trump saying it. >> my thanks to both of you. >> thank you. >> i appreciate it. maggie and africa brown joining me this afternoon from chicago. much more from parkland, florida, coming up on msnbc. we're taking a live look at marjory stoneman douglas high school where students return next last week. coming up in the next hour, talking with a teacher who survived the shooting. stay with us. more than a thousand workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day. putting money back in the pockets of millions of americans. as one of those workers, i'm proud to bring you gillette quality for less, because nobody can beat the men and women of gillette.
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that does it for us, i'm david gura. find me here every saturday and sunday at 2:00 eastern time. the news continues right now on msnbc with my colleague ayman mohyeldin. >> thank you, david. we begin with memo mayhem part two. president trump lashing out after democrats released their memo. what's next now that both sides have had their say? emotional return for the first time since a mass shooting claimed 17 lives. the doors of marjory stoneman douglas high school have reopened. hear one teacher's story as the students recover, their movement to change gun laws gains momentum across the country after school walkouts, meetings with the white house, and calls to boycott the nra. will their p


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