>> that is our broadcast for tonight. thank you for being with us. and good night from msnbc news headquarters in new york. >> tonight, scott pruitt is out. epa administrator resigning in disgrace among 15 ongoing investigations. >> i love. we love. >> what happens now and what tipped scott pruitt's exit. >> we put a bigger swamp creature in there. >> scotus decision winds down. >> the president's three alleged finalist for the supreme court vaktcy.

>> he is one of the smartest people i've ever known and one of the nicest people i have ever known. >> i am chris hayes and the last time i was at this desk, i interviewed a die hard trump supporter. >> training the swamp and not only did we not drain the swamp, we put a bigger creature in there. >> 48 hours after that interview, after pruitt was spotted at the white house, the president accepted pruitt's resignation.

exploiting his office for perks and personal gains. pruitt's extraordinary list prompted debates among historians. hard to think of any politician whose record is more extensive. trying to get his wife a franchise. the d.c. apartment he rented for $50 a knife with a wife of energy lobbyist. six figures on air travel. massive security detail he hired to the tune of $3 million. and whom he enlisted in personal

tasks like picking up dry-cleaning or getting his favorite moisturizer from ritz carlton. 3,000 for tactical pants and polos. and a private secure phone booth in his office. scrubbing his official schedule with of meetings with other controversial figures. pruitt's own scheduler was fired last summer after questioning. pruitt cited unprecedented and unrelented attacks on him personally. i am joined by juliet alspren.

>> the big question is why now? >> this has been simmering for month as you just laid out. but chief of staff john kelly based on my conversations thought they just reached a breaking point story after story and pruitt himself seen his time come to an end. he enjoyed being epa administrator, but the writing has been on the wall for at least six months. i want to read part of the letter. truly your kfsz in me has blessed me personally and enabled me to advance your agenda beyond what anyone anticipated at the beginning of your administration. my desire in service to you has always been to bless you at as

you make important decisions for the american people. >> he made that clear, you know, when we started writing about this early on, someone close to him said we know we have an audience of one and that is president trump. and that is the approach that scott pruitt took from the beginning. and it is unusual that someone who is the epa administrator is constantly in the oval office, regular phone calls on a regular basis. president trump had raised the prospect of him leading trade talks with mexico on nafta. and getting involved in leading the infrastructure push. which give you a sense that the rapport that the two men

established was something that was key to scott pruitt serving as long as he did. >> it is interesting that he lost key parts of opinion makers, laura ingraham says pruitt is the swamp, drain it. i wonder how much that had an effect. >> all of these wings of the conservative party stuck by him for a long time. an epa administrator who they thought could destroy the epa. talking to tom cole of oklahoma and other house republicans today and senate republicans as well. people like jim imhof, they say it is now have with these scandals. jewel jet yet and her colleagues have done a great job of painting a picture. even republicans who like him

have said enough. >> there is some sort of anti trump voices saying this is a witch hunt to coin the term. the people that surface this were people close to pruitt. i wanted to ask you juliet about the acting administrator wheeler. former coal lobbyist. >> and frankly part of the case that many republicans making is the idea that once andrew wheeler got confirmed, a skilled policy expert who can advance some of what pruitt was working on. no doubt that mr. wheeler would be well prepared to pursue a

number of reversals. and he served in the epa and on capitol hill as you mentioned and worked for the private sector in many industries that are looking for changes. >> final question, there have been real problems filling this white house, just the white house staff, and people refer to the desperation in filling the staff there and always in the agencies. the personnel information seems dire. >> turning to people in the west wing like bill shine. he has clouds of his own every his entry into the white house due to the relationship with the late roger ailes. and at the federal government level, this is an

administrations that -- >> all right. thank you for joining me. >> for more on scott pruitt's long list i am joined by former white house. kristen, i will start with you, it worked. it worked. >> that's very generous. i think that i was one of barrage of nails in this coffin that scott pruitt built himself. so much credit goes to investigative journalist. activist groups and

environmental groups like the working families party. so many people who have been really working on getting scott pruitt out of this position and i am glad that i could add to this snowball effect. >> let's talk about the cross hairs. the agenda is really retrograde. it is what kept him there. what is your perception of where the epa is. >> the multiple scandals and the absurdity of them, what kristin mink alluded to in her challenging mr. pruitt was not about the money and absurdity of lotions, but about the fundamental need to protect environment. it was about the fact that oklahoma attorney general, he was penning legislation and

letters to the federal government written by the coal lobby and energy lobby. so, in many ways, the original scandal that should have been enough in any normal climate is now front and center even more so with andy wheeler. >> kristin, you strike me as an avid news consumer. what do you think, how front in mind is something like the epa to you? >> this is fundamental. a lot of issues that are hugely important right now. there are parents being separated from their children, and as a mother, it is hard to think, nothing more urgent than that. at the same time the environment is a nonpartisan issue. this has to do with the future of humanity and the future of the earth and having a safe place for our kids to grow up and for them to have families

and so on. this is a huge issue for me. >> dan, that strikes me, as it will be interesting to see the degree of which the pruitt, the lotion, and the instanty of this guy, who was abusing the public trust that required his removal. i want to be clear about that. the agenda that he has been pursuing doesn't strike me as a popular agenda given the >> one is that it shows the activism of the progressive part of our country even without having democrats controlling the government. and i think you are right, now the question is about core values, clean air, clean water. in every poll we tested, it is always the highest polling law

in the countries, people understand the basic need for that. and andy wheeler is not going to represent policies that represent policy on what the american people want. >> as an end to all of this. if you would write the epitaph of the pruitt era. when you saw these stories, i mean, were you just as astounded as the rest of us were. >> i really was. there is this great line from "shaw shank redemption." to your point, i was completely astounded. i was one who thought scott pru pruitt. andy wheeler strikes me as more

dangerous because he has kept a low profile. he is a washington insider and knows how to play this game. so in many ways, it is a victory for folks who get pruitt out of the government but don't rest our laurels here, we need to go after andy wheeler really hard. >> kristin you are nodding your head. >> we got this guy out and being replaced by somebody who is possibly worse. everybody can be part of the critical mass and be a part of making change, even though we have hardly any representation in government that is effective right now. when we look at who he is being replaced with, it is somebody who has the same goals and better at accomplishing them. and potentially not going to get

him out on corruption charges, he might not make that as easy for us as scott pruitt did. the midterms are going to matter. everybody needs to get to the polls this envelope. because we are not going to get somebody who is going to protect our air, protect our water, and make the environments safe for our kids, if we don't have a flipped congress, we need to go deming accurate and congress this november 2018. >> what i will say here, is that rare moment where conservatives did oversight. there was some little bit, a smattering of congressional oversight. >> we can't give them credit for that. they put him in office. somebody who had sued the epa. this congress approved putting him in charge. you have to know this man whose title literally has

environmental protection in it is not going to be doing the job. they put somebody in the position who they knew was not going to do the job. >> i agree with kristin. last time we talked about this issue back, we talked about the oig, and that report is coming out. i suspect that has something to do with the timing on this. so there is hope that the federal oversight checks can work as long as there is significant public pressure and people like kristin. >> i don't know who represents you in congress, but if you run against them, they should be worried. >> that is very kind of you. >> thanks. the former copresident of fox news who left, now employed in the white house. bill shine in two minutes.

joining with the trump administration as the newest communication director. shine was ousted from fox last year following a series of lawsuits alleging that he was responsible for covering a culture of harassment that ails created. but none of that is disqualifying in a white house that is run by a man who said this. >> you know, i am automatically attracted to beautiful, i just start kissing them. it is a magnet. and when you are a star, they let you do it. they let you do anything, grab them by the [ bleep ], you can do anything.

>> joining me now, politics reporter for the daily beast. and president of media matters. the president just a rally and made a joke about me too. it is sort of astounding for lack of a better word, middle finger for anyone who takes seriously, sexual harassment. >> the president actively opposes the me too movement. he thinks it is troubling and bad for american culture when women come forward against allegations. not troubled whether or not those allegations are true. his concern is women bringing forward allegations of power men. laurie lund alleges that shine facilitated sexual predatory behavior.

she alleges that shine actually reached out to her father as part of an effort to get involuntarily put into a mental health facility. this isn't simple, right? this is like complex wide ranging strategic facilitation of alleged misconduct. now he is installed in an enormous influence in the white house. >> i am glad that you told that story. that is one of many allegations that have been leveled. it is extraordinary the president of the united states could hire someone. this is someone who is highly knowledgeable of women being cycled through. >> what was shine's role at fox news. >> he was basically his right hand man.

did something significant at fox news that i don't think he gets enough credit for. when he became copresident, he sort of oversaw and led the transformation of fox news from being a conservative political operation to approach on propaganda arm. what that means is that he had developed the skill set of being able to manage a wide array of personalities and competing interest but being able to drive through a right wing agenda. and that is one of the big reasons that he is being brought on board. to signify the fact that he has a wider footprint. >> it is true. bill shine is going to have significant influence in large part because this is the fox news administration, not just the white house.

the resulting political success to what they have been seen to people like bill shine. additionally, other cabinet agencies, top deputy of steve mnuchin. we are told bill shine personally recruited him to fox news. shine is going to find lots of people in the white house who owe him something and supportive of him. close friends of sean hannity. hannity was very supportive. he is not going to be just communication adviser, but key people like scott pruitt ends up

being fired or resigning voluntarily. most of the coverage of fox was around ailes. and is going to be under tremendous amount of scrutiny and have to get his clearance, i mean he has never had to face this level of scrutiny before i would imagine. >> no. he always had roger ailes. but the one thing that i would point out is able to do his job and be an implementer. and that is what he is, an effective deputy. he is not going to do the kinds of stupid things that pruitt did that makes him headlines. one thing that under scores is that, is that shine understands soft power and how to move things. he wanted to handle all of the

contributor contracts both on the left and the right. dolling out contracts to the left wing talkers and right wing talkers. and that has built him a wide stable of talking heads across all cable news today. it is a combination of those relationships and understood the importance of the role and indicates that he is not going to be the person popping his head up there doing ridiculous stuff. just like tonight, fourth day on the job and traveling with the president to montana, because he is thinking about the production and television optics side of it. and because he is an optics-minded person, he is going it be very, very careful and he will be able to weather the scrutiny. i think this is the beginning of his career at fox news -- at the white house. >> hope that bill shine can politely tell the president to take seriously, or believes what

he watches at fox news. >> unlikely that shine is going to be a countervailing force. the president would not take any criticism of its programming seriously. the president very much is presenting himself as the decider. shine was too controversial for fox news. people in the administration who are likely troubled by the fact that he was hired. >> he should come out and answer some questions from the podium, a man who is a deputy who is described as a monster. that is who bill shine is, that is what he has alleged to have done. and the man hired by the president. thank you for joining us.

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and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. the president says he will announce his pick for the supreme court at 9:00 p.m. monday night. told the press i think i have it down to four people. the three are widely reported to be bret kavanaugh. and amy coney barret reported that he prefers kavanaugh.

there are still right wing concerns about whether kavanaugh is conservative enough. i am joined by tim o'brien. and christine lushous. christine, let me start with you, what is your read on these three finalist? >> all three of them come from the same toxic short list. this president has broken all precedent when looking at supreme court nominees by using two outside washington interest groups, the federalist society and the heritage foundation to carefully select 25 people that passed all of his ideological

litmus test. that is what is so different about this process. and all of the short listers that you just mentioned, passed this test and we should believe the president when he assures us that he will only nominate people who pass that test. we must believe that they are all hostile to overturning the affordable care act. and attacking roe v wade. and that should be really troubling to anyone no matter which of the ones we focus on. >> christine points out, here is a list, and what is guided trump throughout this amazing transactionalist about this whole thing. he clearly doesn't care. you guys do it.

give me people, and i will make you happy. what is striking is that in this one area he has been trel disciplined about how he has gone about this thing. >> we know the president is not a student of public policy. usually through most of his career try to figure out how to subvert the law and not uphold the rule of law. and yet he has tried to stay around certain issues that he knows is important to his base when he is putting these appointments in play. i think one of the interesting fault lines on this particularly appointment is that it starts to show some of these divisions within the gop itself. obviously, you know, barrett is far to the right. and kavanaugh is somewhere on the right and they appeal to different factions on the gop. so could end up having a tricky needle to thread.

>> i want to follow christine on that because of these fractures. this is a "game of thrones" situation. there is fighting behind, different factions, this is a high stakes thing. but what is interesting to me, is on one level conservatives want to say this is about rigor, procedures, and they are fighting with each other on how they are actually going to rule on stuff because that is what it comes down to. >> i think they have dropped the facade that they are just calling balls and strikes. he has had the help of these two inside groups of putting together. one thing that distinguishes the three short listers is two of them have short -- she has said that it is unconstitutional.

she has said that judges do not need to set aside their personal views in all instances. and that is a pretty frightening for somebody who could be put on our highest court to say. what it shows is that it is not a leaning into impartiality or being fair minded. it is signaling an outcome of how she would rule. >> although honest. there is also this, tim, and i keep thinking to this. we are headed towards an almost collision course between the mueller investigation. the president is going to be subpoenaed or he is going to refuse to sit down and talk. and i got to imagine, he wants

nothing more than to give the comey treatment to these people in the one-on-one meetings. >> of course he does. remember, should mueller pursue this he is going to test some of the constitutional protections around the executive, including whether or not you can indict a sitting president. it is possible that a lot of the issues intended in his investigations are going to go before the supreme court and be tested in the supreme court. and one of trump's litmus test is loyalty. he is willing to degrade public institutions and the wheels of government in the way of personality. >> especially relevant judge kavanaugh. he believes the president should be above the law.

>> orchestrating this entire process and vetting the nominees. that he has to stick himself with these nominees like he is guarding steph curry. because of what the president will almost certainly say to them if given the opportunity. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. still to come, the trump administration is coming clean on the number of children they ripped away from their parents and it might be larger than we thought. plus tonight thing one, thing two, next.

thing one tonight on his very first trip abroad as president, donald trump got a hardy welcome. a country where all forms of protest are banned. >> there was not a single hint of a protester anywhere there during the time we were there. the mood was a genuinely good mood. >> can you imagine that? not a single protester in saudi arabia? a good mood in britain next week. opposition to the president is

robust. trump canceled a planned visit earlier this year. he will be showing up next friday and one brit has a special forming of protest. that is thing two in 60 seconds.

donald trump is headed to the uk for the first time as president. today giving a unique protest. tens of thousands taking the streets to protest his presence. the balloon was specifically designed to get under trump's skin. organizer saying, moral outrage has no affect on trump because he is immune.

we want to make sure that he knows all of britain is looking down on him and laughing at him. >> i think i am very popular in your country. >> let's not be too hasty mr. president. >> i believe that. i really do. i get so much fan mail from people in your country. they love my sense of security. they love what i am saying about many different things.

this hour, 8:00 p.m. eastern on this network has been anchored by towering figures. one of those figures was ed schultz who died today at 64. began his broadcasting career as a sports caster in fargo, north dakota. in 2004 the ed schultz show became nationally syndicated. >> good evening, americans, and welcome to the ed show from madison. >> i have to tell you, folks, i

have never been more connected emotionally to a story in my entire career. something about the heartland, and something about the voices i heard today. something about wisconsin. this is ground zero. we are told he died of natural causes at his home in washington d.c. he leaves behind his wife, and a large family. and that includes former colleagues. he will be missed. he is dead at the age of 64.

a court ordered deadline is rapidly approaching to reunite immigrant children taken from their parents.

today, in an update, the report was frustratingly imprecise. over 3,000 separated children number more than previous department data and he said that's partly because the court order for reunification goes from before the administration began its tolerance policy. it is because the government doesn't seem to be sure who is separated from a parent or not with the a review, identifying the nearly 3,000 kids who may have been separated. that's a quote, from their parents. joining me now, tim ryan, democrat from ohio, who today visited a michigan facility where migrant children are being held. julia, here is my takeaway pouring through this. hhs does not seem to know for

certain which of the children in their custody, 11,000 or so, which were taken from their parents and were were unaccompanied. >> we kept pressing them to this. we kept trying to press on this number. they said it was taken from interviews with children in their custody who said they were separated from their parents. but a quote said you know children can be unreliable. we know children may be unreliable. they may not understand who separated them. was that a border agent, or before they got to their parent but i can't understand why there's not a database so we're not relying on the reports of children, some of whom are younger than 5, to find out if they were separated from their parents. they are going through data bases trying to put it together but why is there no systematic way to identify them.

and i completely undermines what the administration said, that this was only temporary. when we reported this could be a permanent separation, they said that's ludicrous. they'll be back together in days. now it has been almost a month since they ended this policy. >> the children under 5, july 10th, and july 5 through 17, july 26. they seem to be saying they are getting the information from interviewing kids because they don't have it and didn't keep track of it. congressman ryan, you were in a facility in michigan that you visited. what was your impression of what you saw there? >> well, there wasn't a lot of transparency with the number, the 3,000 number or whatever it may be. and we know it is very, very complicated. we can't be critical of these case work here's end one the case because they're trying to

sift through all of this themselves and they're doing a lot of really hard work. clearly the administration was not prepared for this initiative. so now you have kids who you don't even know where their parents are. this is ridiculous. it was heart-breaking to think why are these kids in grand rapids, michigan? it is not what we saw but it is what we heard. these stories of why these kids are leaving guatemala. they're being threatened if they don't join a gang, they're going to get killed. if these gangs don't get paid a ransom, they'll be killed. there are kids being sold into sex trafficking. and they flee to the united states. one story, a father jumped in front of a bullet that was going for his kid. he got killed. the kid got shot and he eventually made his way to the united states. these aren't people trying to gain the system. if we send them back, we're sentencing them on death.

that's the reality of it that we need to understand as americans, to say to ourselves, we're better than this. >> i want to come back to this. you arraignment blue collar district in ohio. i feel like sometimes there is an idea that this is a wedge issue in the president's favor. i'm skeptical that's true. and i wonder what your read is on something like this. >> we're all for border security. we're all for controlling the border. we have an opiate epidemic in ohio and we're all for making sure those drugs don't get here, whether they're through the mail or the border. we're for border security but also for a compassionate, responsible immigration system. not ripping kids from their mother's arms. this is state sponsored child abuse. you have kids.

if you're grocery shopping and you lose your kids for two or three seconds, you freak out a little bit. this is state sanctioned child abuse. and so people in ohio are not for that. they're for making sure these families are together. if they're going home and going on get killed, we say let's figure out a way. we're a community of immigrants that came to work in the steel mills and rubber factories. it seemed to me, they were saying, we're going to comply with these artificial deadlines but it sounded like he was starting to lay the ground work for not complying. what was your impression of whether they would apply with what was a federal court order?

>> my impression was that he wanted the reporters to go back and talk about how incredibly dangerous it would be to meet the deadlines. emthere are a lot of processes to make sure they go to safe homes. that they would have to truncate the processes. i think he wanted to us write that the safety of the children and maybe to shift public opinion in some way to say they shouldn't to have meet these deadlines. >> thank you both. >> before we go, i wanted to remind you, there's a new episode up of our podcast. i learned so much from eliza griswold, talking about what

took place after fracking came to western pennsylvania. you can download the episodes anywhere and don't forget to subscribe. tonight epa chief scott pruitt resigns amid more than a dozen scandals and blatant unrelenting attacks on his way out. the president tonight says he's been preparing his whole life for meeting vladimir putin, while a russian who met with republican lawmakers this week said it was one of the easiest meetings of his life. plus new reporting on robert mueller's expanding team as the special counsel investigation plows forward. "the 11th hour" on a thursday night begins now. good evening, once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. i'm ali velshi in for brian williams. epa administrator scott pruitt