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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  July 13, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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richard angle is broadcasting live. adam schiff joins. thanks for watching. "hardball" is up next. mueller indicts. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. tonight, 12 kremlin officials with russian military intelligence agency are facing charges in the united states. 12 defendants are accused of conspiracy to commit an offense against the united states. charges of computer crimes, identity theft and money laundering. most compelling evidence to date
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linking the election hacking with the russian government. indictment reveals the highly sophisticated methods the kremlin used to target over 300 individuals affiliated with the clinton campaign. here is deputy attorney general. >> the conspirators created fictitious online personas. and they used those personas to release information. including thousands of stolen e-mails and other documents. in an effort to conceal their connections to russia, the defendants used a network of computers around the world and they paid for it using
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cryptocurrency. >> one detail in the indictment stands out in particular, it specifically mentioned the date of july 27th, 2016. saying on or about july 27, 2016, the conspirators attempted after hours to spear phish. trump made this statement. >> i will tell you this, russia, if you are listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> the revelation suggests thbu does not confirm that russian intelligence could have made --
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on the direction of donald trump. numerous americans. there is no allegation the americans knew they were corresponding with russian agents but states the russians shared stolen documents with a candidate from the u.s. congress, a state lobbyist and a reporter. including a person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign of donald trump. the messages cited indicate that person is former trump advisor roger stone who has come under scrutiny in the probe. quote, at least seven people associated with long time trump friend roger stone have been
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contacted by special counsel robert mueller. joining me national security reporter for nbc news. david french senior writer at the national review. just trying to shift through everything, we singled it out there. this line there, and i want you to translate because the wording is confusing in this indictment. domain hosted by a third party. the way this is being interpreted by the folks, i am reading, that's the day trump said hey, russia, i hope you find those 30,000 e-mails of hillary clinton. and if that language i read is a reference to russia trying to do that. >> that's what it looks like. and i don't think this is an accident that this date was mentioned in this indictment. there are a lot of dates that things happened where the russian hacker where is active
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and they didn't list many of them. but this is one date they listed. and i think mueller did it for a reason. he knows we will make that connection. a reasonable person can make the inference. gave donald trump to take it back or at least he is kidding. but no, he embraced it. he said, i would like the russians if they can get the e-mails, that would be great. or the chinese he said. to trying to hack hillary clinton and her people, and they continue to do that. i think it looms very significant in this investigation. >> okay, now, no americans indicted here saying there are is no allegation in this indictment that the americans knew they were talking to russian agents but the
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speculation is centering around roger stone. take us in what is in here about roger stone. >> so we have known for some time that the special counsel is calling roger stone's friends to the grand jury and asking questions about his knowledge. the indictment as you said does not mention roger stone but he had previously published this exchange that he had with gus f -- gussifer 2. to leak the stolen e-mails. now we have roger stone in contact with this persona. there is nothing particularly incriminating that laid out in this indictment that stone did or said, but certainly refutes
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his denial that he engaged with the russian. and we know, a couple of months ago, another story broke saying he remembered a contact with a russian down in florida. if there were members of the trump campaign or trump advisors who were participating with the russians or coordinating, roger stone seemed like a likely person. >> the next thing on the world stage, the next issue is that president trump is set to meet with vladimir putin. some calls from democrats, even john mccain calling for president trump not to go forward with this meeting. with this indictment now detailing, this is what russia
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was doing in the united states in the election in 2016, what message too you want president trump to bring to vladimir putin. what message do you expect to bring. >> president trump should not bow at the foot of vladimir putin and for him to do so is a disgrace to the american people. on the day when he publicly called for russia to hack into hillary clinton's e-mails, they listened to him and did that. knowing what all of us know now, it would be a disgrace. >> caroline, from a lawyer's perspective, the tay that trump says two get those e-mails, this line anybo line in the indictment saying, it lacks like this happened.
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does he want us seeing. >> there is an old saying and people have been saying it all day today, prosecutors do not believe in coincidence. wouldn't it be a coincidence that unbeknownst to president trump or candidate trump that gucifer 2.0 started on the exact day that president trump told them to do so. in the bigger picture this is part two of a three part series. the three part is what if anything did americans know. rod rosenstein. >> we mentioned the up coming meeting with vladimir putin. you could make the argument that
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today's indictment. in advance of the meeting, trump suggested he does not plan to confront putin strongly. this is what he had to say earlier today. >> i know you will ask will we be talking about meddling. i will absolutely bring it up. there won't be a perry mason, i don't think. but i will absolutely firmly ask the question. >> putin has consistently denied. this is what he told megyn kelly last year. >> you have repeatedly and passionately denied that russia was behind the interference with our american election. >> translator: i haven't seen even once there was
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interference. >> issues an ominous warning. trump's concessions to russia and his apparent inability to hold russia responsible. improving relations with russia is a worthy goal so long as it doesn't undermine security or reward bad behavior. david french, let me bring you in. i heard you have a new review calling the witches are real. let me ask you this because we talk so much about the president's been making the case to his supporters, that hey, this is my enemies, the democrats, the clinton die hards who don't want to respect what happened in 2016, do you see anything in this indictment today insuring t today, in the news, in the coverage of this. >> certainly not in the hard
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core trump base, immediately the response was, yet again, we see no collusion even though interesting paragraphs in the indictment indicating there was direct communication which broadcast there were more shoes left to job. until you see evidence that is screaming collusion, you are going to have a hard core base that is going to be unfazed by this. a lot of thoughtful conservatives out there, saying it is becoming clear and clear that the intelligence agency assessment that the putin regime was trying to intervene became an operation attempting to hurt hillary clinton and help donald trump. it is clear that mueller needs to be clear to do his work and let the chips fall where they may. because he focused on actual
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russian interference, he illustrated that he is doing his work competently and professionally coo professionally according to the core. >> congressman castro, have you heard from your colleagues, have you felt the temperature change at all. >> i haven't. we ended voting somewhere around 11:00 this morning and most of us have been on planes. i got back home to texas an hour. it also speaks to the need for two very important things. first, greater election security. there isn't a single federal law or even a state law that sets any bar or minimum bar for cybersecurity protection for our voting systems. we know that the russians hacked into 20 something states voter
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registration systems. laws put into place. the second part is we have got to have the equivalent of a cyber nato where nations come together and able to act defensively when one of them is attacked. nato accomplishes that when a country is intruded on. >> we have been talking about this idea that trump says, hey, russia go get the e-mails and it looks like russia turned around and tried to do that. people are using the term, collusion in plain sight. what if this was a situation where the president said, that russia heard that, or the candidate said that, and russia
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tried to do that. certainly that looks terrible but is there a crime there. >> there is such a thing in the law known as constructive knowledge. if he knew that day they were going to listen to him and he knew he was sending a message, that could go through constructive knowledge. just as as the facts that you laid out there, no. it wouldn't be enough. >> very busy panel here, thank you for being with us. a busy day and night and president trump's wrecking ball diplomacy. they are calling it that. continuing to tear through europe. massive crowds gathering to protest in london. days before the president holds the big one-on-one meeting with vladimir putin. the white house says it is still
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on at this hour. with the mueller investigation ratcheting up in a big way, what do voters say about it. fascinating numbers to look through there and much more on today's top story on the indictment of 12 russian intelligence officers on the eve of trump putin meeting. the "hardball" round table weighs in on that. finally, the round table 3 things we may not know. this is "hardball." where the action is. even a "cac. (man 1) i read that the saguaro can live to be two hundred years old. (woman) how old do you think that one is? (man 1) my guess would be, about... (man 2) i'd say about two hundred. (man 1) yeah... (burke) gives houseplant a whole new meaning. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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i would give our relationship with the uk and now especially after these two days with your prime minister, i would say the highest level of special. am i allowed to go higher than that, i'm not sure. but it is the highest level of special. very special people, a very special country. >> welcome back to "hardball." president trump trying to mend fences after taking his wrecking ball. trying to explain away his comments to the british tabloids the sun trashing theresa may's handling of brexit. >> i would have done it
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differe differently. i told theresa may how to do it. but she didn't do it. she wanted to go a different route. >> so you would be prepared to walk away if they toodon't giveu the right terms. >> absolutely. >> this morning president trump tried to walk back those comments. >> i didn't criticize the prime minister, i have a lot of respect for the prime minister. unfortunately there was a story which was done which was generally fine but didn't put in what i said about the prime minister. once the brexit process is concluded and perhaps the uk has left the eu, i don't know what they are going to do, but whatever you know is okay with me. that's your decision. >> thousands of demonstrators swarm the streets of london to
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protest trump's visit. for more, joined by senior politics editor. and bobby goshe. >> these things can fall tast. he goes over there and hits her in that interview where she is most vulnerable on brexit. and where does she emerge politically this week. and then the question of the u.s. brain relationship. >> ironically, for the unexpected reasons she might come off looking better because she held her nerve. she remained graceful. her government is vulnerable. he repeatedly praised both in the sun interview and in the press conference, he repeatedly
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praised her rival. he basically not only put petrol over the situation, but then put a match. the brits do respond well, if i can be presumption to speak for them, perform well under fire. that might win her a few more brownie points. >> on the one hand, we don't see presidents go over to britain. on the other hand donald trump did campaign for presidency, the posture and the attitude here is something he talked about running for president. >> he lives in his own reality bubble and seemed to think that theresa may wouldn't have read
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the article. what i said was this. and yes, we are used to this with donald trump, that black is white and up is down and he is persuasive when he does so. so he perhaps convinced a few people, maybe what he claimed to have said in the magazine doesn't matter at all. he went over, he criticized their prime minister in her country, and then he criticized the press, blamed the press for the mishap of communication when there wasn't any, our press on foreign soil. because we are so numb to everything donald trump does, we said, well, here he goes again. >> you are reading it and he was very confident dissing her and then gets face to face, and it is a completely different
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attitude. let me shift gears. trump and putin, the white house saying it is still on. democrats out there saying it shouldn't be. is this indictment, are these indictments today going to impact what donald trump does in that meeting? >> well, it ought to. by every rational logical reckoning, it ought to. enough saying kn-- we have repeatedly shown, he is capable of living in a fact free bubble. if he says anything at all, the fact that there is no the goit be any aides in the room, we won't know. so if i were putin, i wouldn't
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be particularly worried with any of this. >> trump on this subject defended his performance. does not under mimine the allia with vladimir putin. >> let me explain something. we have left nato with more money, with more unity, with more spirit than nato probably ever had. when you look at what we have done in terms of russia, i guarantee, whoever it is in russia, we think, oh, gee, we wish trump was not the victor. we have been tougher on russia than anybody. >> right now, it sounds like the plan is one-on-one trump. the president trump of the united states should not be one-on-one with vladimir putin. there needs to be another american in the room.
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what can he come out of the room and say. >> that was controversial before the indictments came down. go to the meetings with no note taking and no american give witness to what was said. everything is as plans and there is not going it be changes. what i don't understand is with respect to how he loves to appear with anyone, including allies in nato, very tough. i am the alpha male. exploit weakness and yet he doesn't want to appear tough at all in russia. great opportunity for him to go over there and say, you are never doing this again to us. cut it out. knock it off. but he won't. he is always so in the thral of
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vladimir putin. s simperring place of fear. >> did anything this week surprise our allies in terms of how this went down? >> i don't think they were surprised. i think this was a moment of reckoning for them. a moment for our allies to recognize there has been a tendency outside of the united states, some in the u.s. too, to think about trump as it is play acting. surely when it comes to the crunch, when it comes to the rubber meeting the road, this is all for the cameras. surely he will be much more sensible. what you see, is what you get. there is no second trump. this is exactly who he is and he is 100% authentic.
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however you feel about it. this was a moment i think for european leaders, nato allies to recognize the guy is who he says he is. and even behind closed doors that is how he is going to be. >> thank you both for joining us. what do voters think of it. and what do they think of the president's dismissal of it? heading over to the big board next. this is "hardball" but what if, one day, there was a white flower for alzheimer's first survivor? what if there were millions of them? join us for the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's. register today at
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. welcome back to "hardball." and between, the mueller investigation ratcheting up today in a big way. 12 indictments of russia intelligence officials and they are the most thorough. the possibility certainly that there is more to come here. we wanted to see where public opinion is on this and where it might be going. because broad support overall for the idea of having the investigation, but we have been seeing polarization. asking the question did trump from what you have seen, do you think it is likely trump colluded with russia or didn't collude with russia?
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and you see an even split there. 37/37. that is the expectation going into this from folks. when you break that down by party, 68-to five, they think there is collusion. so we start to see polarization, and also this, do you have confidence that the mueller investigation is fair and impartial. the president has been out there saying this is a witch hunt. overall there is a majority here that say they are confident this is a fair and partial investigation. but the number underneath is sitting there at four and ten. look, you can see the polarization setting in here among democrats overwhelming
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confidence. more than two to one of republicans saying they do not have confidence that mueller is fair and impartial. and confidence at a bare majority. 50%. and how about this, how does russia investigation how the coverage of it, and how it is played into public opinion. we took a poll. what is trump's approval rating, the number came in at 44%. but, how about this, how about when you ask the question, do you follow the russia investigation closely. among those folks, trump's pr e approval rating it is at 40%. i don't follow closely, those folks 52%. there is a disconnect here. the folks following it closely, their opinion is significantly
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lower than the folks not following closely. let's see how it plays out. if somehow that polarization dissipates. coming up, after the indictment, democrats are calling on the president to cancel his sit down with vladimir putin. senator john mccain warning the meeting can only happen and should only happen if
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. i know you will ask, will we talking about meddling. and i will absolutely bring that up. i don't think you will have any gee, i did it, i did it. you got me. i don't think there will be a perry mason here, i don't think. but i will firmly ask the
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question. >> president trump plans on bringing up election meddling during his meeting with vladimir putin. but democrats are calling on cancelling the meeting if he is not going to confront putin. >> if he and his team are not willing to make the subject of indictment, then the meeting should be cancels. >> i wouldn't trust what he is saying there. maybe they are plotting. certainly cancel any meeting without any americans present. >> if he is unwilling to confront vladimir putin about this strong piece of evidence, he should cancel the meeting. and make sure that president trump can report to the american people that he made that confrontation. if he doesn't do that it makes us and our president look weak.
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>> and in a statement, mccain said if president trump is not prepared to hold putin accountable, the summit should not go on. >> joining us, phillip, let me start with you. he says he is going to bring it up and says don't expect anything out of it. among other things, that has been the knock on the president in terms of how he has addressed this in public. never indicated he seems particularly bothered about it. >> nothing that suggests donald trump feels any pressure to put pressure on vladimir putin. the part of his hesitance is he thinks that the idea that russia meddles on his behalf under cuts his victory.
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he hears everybody saying you should do this and he wants to do it less. it is a little bit like going to exxon mobil and saying, aha, now you should stop selling oil. >> is there anything that he could say that the president could say coming out of this meeting that he could say in it that would get democrats, okay, realistically, anything he could say. >> let's make this an american issue. the guy ran on poking out his chest and talked about how he is going to defend america and talk tough to the world. and here he is acting like a little sheep. 12 people were indicted because it has been proven that the
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russians have been involved in something nefarious. and as an american, if he wants me to feel safe, if he wants me to feel like he has got it, clearly he doesn't have it. and i am curious about what happened to all of the bravado. >> the question, and not the first time we have asked it, republican leads in congress, john mccain saying if he is not going to confront putin, should be no meeting. is there going to be any change, if donald trump has this meeting, is there going to be change on how republican leaders react to this? >> no. quite simple, the base has to change. they are buying whatever is coming out of the president's mouth. even if it is fake news, my words were taken today and used
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against me in the sun against theresa may. let's be honest, donald trump put his hand on the bible and swear an oath to protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic and he is going to have a love fest with vladimir putin and say, oh, i have to ask you about this. you are in an abusive relationship and somebody is attacking you constantly. the first thing you have to do is stop the abuse. and russia is going to do it in 2018, in 2020. and we need to have a president who stands up and does it. and the president is having a dereliction of duty moment. >> candidate trump made this plea to russia in florida. >> i will tell you this, russia, if you are listening, i hope you are able to find the 30,000 e h
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e-mails that are missing. you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. >> this was the same day when russian intelligence officers attempted after hours to spear phish. the term collusion in plain sight. trying to figure out, so much attention on what was happening behind the scenes. if this ends up saying, he said this, russia heard it and if those dots connect. what does it mean? >> i want to take a contrary position to the conventional wisdom which is what you just saw, that link between what donald trump just said, under cuts the campaign had a secret
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back channel to russia. if they did, why say it this public. shows how this facade of the russian intelligence service made contact with wikileaks to share information. that was done through a direct message over twitter. if that is the case, maybe there wasn't a conduit anybody tin th campaign. a lot of questions about what the relationship and his campaign was in russia. i think the evidence that came out today doesn't reinforce very strongly the idea that the two were working in cahoots behind the scenes. up next, fbi peter strozk, rod rosenstein had what it seems a message for congress. - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain
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welcome back to "hardball." a firing hearing quickly escalated into a nine-hour shouting match. fbi agent peter strozk who was criticized over personal
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messages came under intense fire from republicans. during today's announcement, deputy attorney general rod rosenstein had a poignant message for congress. >> we follow the law and we reserve judgment. we complete our investigations and evaluate all of the relevant evidence before we reach any conclusion. >> how did you read rod rosenstein there? >> i think every time he has a chance to speak, he should double down on the fact we are trying to get justice here. i think the republicans made themselves look absolutely ridiculous at that hearing, the fact that they were having the yelling match and attacking this guy. and frankly, the fact that even
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though, no one was coming up with any real solutions on what to do to protect and safe guard america from threats that are being investigated, to me, i can't believe that is happening right now, i am shocked. >> and it speaks to something that you said a minute ago about what you saw in that committee, i think you saw a demonstration of a lot of the energy on the republican base being channeled. that does seem to be where sort of the guts of the republican base is right now. >> this belief that there is this witch hunt, to have gomer going off and attacking peter strozk. i think democrats were puffing their chests as well. i mean, at the same time we
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really deserve to have members of congress from both sides of the aisle asking the real questions. playing investigators and prosecutors not politicians sending out a fund-raising letter and proving to their base they are tough. >> seems to be a line thaw can dr say strzok should get a purple heart. you can make an argument in terms of the mueller investigation, it is best that strzok is not continuing as a part of that. >> mueller fired him from his team last year, because he found out about these texts. mueller is going out of his way
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to ensure this is objective. republicans want to reinforce president trump's key report that the mueller probe is bias against trump. people will dislike and more dislike the mueller probe. something else happened yesterday, a fox news poll came out. asked people how you feel about mueller. take your time and get it done or wrap it up already. 54% of americans said take your time and get it done right. i think that is important to remember. >> this entire hearing was about whether or not biases could impact an investigation. and we saw a lot of biases impacting the investigation from both sides of the aisle.
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and we are back with the "hardball" round table. phillip, tell me something i don't know. >> here are the fruits of the witch hunt. 23 counts that were dropped as part of a plea deal. six guilty pleas from five defts. 25 russian nationals charged with crimes and four individuals working directly for or advisors in the campaign.
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>> i couldn't have given you those numbers off the top of my head. >> the emmys just broke another record. 36 people of color have been nominated forr an emmy. >> the water there, the troops and the families are drinking are contaminated almost to the inspects of flint. >> does anybody think there is any chance that trump backs out of the putin meeting? >> no. >> absolutely not. it is going to be a love fest. >> democrats will escalate the cause this weekend. john mccain earlier coming out with the statement saying the
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president should call it off if he is not ready to confront putin. i am going to say thank you. that is "hardball" for now. chris matthews will be back. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on all in. >> russia, if you are listening, i hope you are able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> charges for the russian operatives who answered trump's call. >> 12 russia military officers by name for conspiring to interfere with the 2016 election. >> as the president prepares to meet with putin behind closed doors. >> i will bring it up. >> new worries about collusion between trump and russia. >> i don't think you will