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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  July 31, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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that. it's dwens the law. that's why we've xwoen to court and i'm hopeful, i'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to be successful in court. >> josh shapiro, mr. attorney general, thank you very much. and that will wrap up this hour up for me. ali velshi starts now. what's interesting about this and what could pose legal hurdles is that the, they did argue this on the first amendment. they were able to marry the first amendment with the second and were able the to say it's uninstitutional to stop me from posting this. and i, i'm not a lawyer and you'd have to ask somebody more steeped in constitutional law, but i wonder if it's as easy to get around that if you're trying to stop a case like this. >> there are overlaps br the back page said we're just a website. you can't blame us. it's a koch kacomplicated issue it's not incorrect to suggest the first amendment isn't there. there are state laws and the supreme court has said states
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have the ability regulate firearms. this is a complicated legal issue. >> certainly scary to think somebody can board a plane with that or walk into a school with that. >> be anywhere you are. >> thanks have a good afternoon. >> you, too. >> good afternoon. our democracy itself is in the cross hairs. glares red flag that came from homeland security chief on theish of foreign interference that have come to define the 2016 elections. less than 100 days out from the 2018 midterms, that picture could not be more clear. facebook says it's uncovered a new covert campaign to spread devicive political messages. the social network says it cannot confirm who is behind this attack, but says some of the activity is similar is to what we saw before and after the 2016 elections. if facebook is removing 32 accounts from facebook and instagram. as "the new york times" points
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out after being caught by the agency efforts to use social media to sew division ahead of the 2016 presidential election, facebook is trying to avoid a repeat staser in 2018, but it's still a question as to whether this is enough. and nielsen made clear the attacks aren't going away anytime soon. >> as we all know, it's not a question of if or when we're really unfortunately in a situation where it's how often and how long can he withstand constant attack. as we all sit here today, all our entities are attempting to be hacked or disrupted by a foreign adversary. >> as you know, this is a topic that we stay very close to. we brought together the best team from reporters to export perts to break it all down. i want to start with joe who broke the story.
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also with us is david edelman, director of the project on technology and the economy and national security at mit. and former first, he was first director of international policy on the national security counsel. tom winter is also with us. he's been covering this closely. joe, walk us through today's development. >> essentially, facebook is coming forward and said they caught a network of pages and accounts and actors who have been trying to sew discord and create influence on facebook. as you said, they are not saying whether or not it is russia even though facebook did disclose there are links to the internet research agency. what happened, all unfolded between march 2017 and may 2018. and facebook says that b about a million accounts, 920,000, wer followed. there were about 30 events or so in real life that were created only two of them have yet to occur. and facebook says they did detect activity around real people, real accounts,
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interacting with these events ch planning to go. planning to attend. >> this is a big deal. real people. not digital events. events that people go to. ben, you and i have talked a lot about that. it was two years ago these things were happening. the events people actually went to and behavior of people around elections were changed. show effective are these types of accounts that facebook has shut down? how quickly after somebody b starts an account like this does start to gain rax tra? sfl zbloo just within a here, these handful of pages were able to get over 290,000 accounts to follow them. this is with an ad spin of just $11,000. they took down 30 events linked to these groups and the largest of which attracted interest from 47 accounts. these foreign actors through their own means. b facebook's platform that allows it to get to the people
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who would be most likely to be influenced by it. >> what strikes me is that we are, we are listening to members of congress responding now and saying we're going to have to take action against this. it's happening in realtime. we still continue to have this sort of thing. are we equipped to have an election and be safe from outside influence? >> you're right. this is a real challenge. one that at a minimum, facebook has identified as continuing, but this is the tip of the iceberg. this activity is continuing, if they're able to find a few scores of accounts to take them offline, on the one hand, means they're getting better in trying not to get caught flat footed. on the other, we don't know how deep this rabbit hole goes. facebook got caught before. they were only able to identify these sort of accounts after the fact. and it's undeniable these sorts of accounts, they're probably getting smarter. so while we know facebook is maybe able to find activity that looks like what they saw before,
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it's not clear they're able to find new activity. getting more sophisticated and using new tactics to get more followers. >> you said facebook is not linking this to russia. does that mean they're saying it's not russia or just not say ing it is? >> we asked the chief operating officer exactly that question. how what kind of influence are you seeing ahead of the midterms. is this russia or other countries? they say it's too early to tell. sandburg is saying they don't have a full picture yet and they're trying to get this out into the public to warn users to inform the page administrators who are linked and participate ng this to get people aware. they say they're working with law enforcement, the fbi and other entities working alongs e alongside -- facebook is telling us they're going to cover up their tracks more using virtual
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private networks and other type of methods to disguise themselves better within facebook. >> i'm going to talk to tom in second about what the fbi is doing in this, but ben, i want to go back to you on this particular point. you know, david made the point they went backwards. able to return to activity. >> like some of these. you don't really have to for better or for worse and some cases for worse, use your social security number to register for facebook account. they're not going to link these accounts truly to real people. and so whatever means that facebook sets up to try to weave these out, as long as there's an ability to create an identity, that there's going to be a route around it. >> having covered a bunch of revolutions, there are a lot of people who say we don't want
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absolute positive proof of identity on social media, otherwise you'll get bchblg of people to leave because it's unsayre. so what's the middle ground here? how do you keep facebook free while not u allowing it to be b rebust platform? >> that's the conflict you're seeing play out with the executives. if you hear mark suctizuckerber interview, they are really trying to come to religion on this particular issue. how do they on the one hand shut down obvious patent misinformation that is designed to mislead while still allowing people in mark zuckerberg's words to be b wrong on the internet sometimes. this is something you'll see members of congress probing facebook out consistently. i think you've seen change in exactly where the company feels like that line is going to be
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drawn. they're under a lot of political pressure, trying to bring down outlets that are monotizing. some of this mission information, some of the outlets. only so far. they're trying to get a few hits and those trying to do it with no -- only intention, two and a half years ago, we were worry about people monotizing fake news on the internet. that still happens, but now, the issue is influntsing us. thanks, everybody. all right, while foreign actors continue to understounderstood the threat on america's digital infrastructure, not talking about social moedia here is playing out. i want to bring in tom winter. tom, social media is easier for us to get our head around. we don't think things like our
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air traffic control and transportation systems are subject to penetration, but they are. >> well, they are. you have this extraordinary event today. the backdrop of secretary nielsen's statements where she said let me be clear, our intelligence community had it right. it was the russians. we know that and they know that. you have this very declarative statement her, but in the backdrop, you have the head of the southern companies, one of the large u.s. energy providers. the ceo at&t and mastercard. the director of the fbi and the secretary of energy, rick perry there. it's all against this backdrop of a real increasing concern. she agreed with dan coates saying the system the blinking red. an analogy ta goes wak to 9/11 when that was being talked about bf the september 11th attacks. i think there's real urgency here based on what we've heard today that we are in a situation here where we're looking at people who have been able to get
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access to their foreign actor, director wray saying it's no longer these nation states. meaning try to get our secrets, our military information. but now, you have them working with hacking groups. in these various third party people that can go in and try to get access to these systems and it's a real collaborative group that's trying to be set up. most of the u.s. is critical frugs and when it comes to cyber it's all private. our cell phone companies. the it's private. that might be a good thing, right? there might be a robust response from the private sector. >> well, it's going to hit their wallet. so in other words, if you shut down the electrical grid, this customer is not paying for electricity. there's the free market incentive for them to be able the get on board to be able to work with federal law enforcement for you guys to say can you give us a picture of what's going on. how can we work together with the information that you have, how can can we build that level of trust. that's what they're talking
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about so that the private sector companies are preparing for this, that they're getting the best information. at the same point, the private sector companies realize we've got to give you guys a heads up and all the stream of traffic they're getting, you and i paying the bill, their vendors accessing them or money going back and forth to pay fuel suppliers. >> they know patterns. whether you're a cell phone or energy company. or mastercard. >> exactly. they know what that traffic looks like and now they're teaming up with additional u.s. super computing power, which has been a concern for a long time because china had been overtaking us on that in that real m. so they're trying to work together and come up and be able to get to these solutions before we have a version of a cyber 9/11, which is a real concern at this point. that's what we keep hearing. >> thanks for your reporting on this. what's the white house doing about this continued and on going threat? based on our latest reporting, it's not clear. no plan in place and no one in
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charge. for more on this, i'm joined by our national security and intelligence reporter, ken. i was thrilled to see kirsten nielsen was unequivocal, but member of trump's cabinet said there's a need for a unified effort to combat hacking, other nations influenced, both in the election that tom was just talking about. why is it this white house struggling to do this. >> well, my sources tell me that president trump has not been able to get past the idea that foreign election intervention questions his legitimacy as president and as election. so there's a vacuum of leadership on this from the oval office. the reason that's so important is because look, you've been talking about facebook an how easy it is to set them up. is it reasonable to expect private companies -- i think the answer is no. the russians are always going to
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get in. they need to be deterred is what experts tell me. this behavior needs to come at a cost to them and so far, the u.s. intelligence community t the military, the white house, have not imposed the cost on russia for this. that's got to stastart from the house. when i talk to intelligence officials, they sound like people sounded after 9/11. agencies were doing things, but not talking to each other. not sharing information. gaps, an absence of leadership. we need guidance to solve this problem. the white house has done away with their cybersecurity coordinator. >> the white house decided into the presidency, there there wasr fraud problem and set up a national commission on that. didn't amount to a hill of be beans. we don't even have the optics of that when it comes to cybersecurity in america. >> that's right. for example, on the election interference, we could have use ed a national commission to get to the bottom of the mechanics of what happened. mueller's investigating whether
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there was criminality, but how about just the policy issues here and what were the gaps in the law, which is exactly what we did after 9/11. we create d the department of homeland security as a society appropriated money. none of that is happening because it requires presidential leadership. people in congress are proposing bills and they're going nowhere. >> thanks. we will of course stay on top of this story and bring you new developments as they come in, but now, opening statements are underway in the trial of paul manafort. the president's former campaign chairman. it took just about fohours for of six women and men to be selected. this is the first skrech from inside the virginia court roochlt he is facing dozens of charges. this is a big test for the mule investigation. the first trial despite numerous indictments. the government seems to be
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wasting no time. we'll follow the trial and brick you developments. come up, americans are feeling the impact of president trump's trade war. the ones we've bb hearing from a lot, farmers, many of whom who come from a state who helped put the president in the white house. you're watching b msnbc. (vo) i was born during the winter of '77. i first met james in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru. it's a high-tech sleep revolution. the sleep number 360 smart bed intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts. so you wake up ready to run the world. the new sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999.
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dairy farm es are feeling the tariffs.
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china has imposed a 25% tariff on milk, yogurt, cheese and other products. canada has not imposed a tariff, but has a 270% tariff on dairy imports above the quota that has been negotiated with the united states. mexico is the top market for u.s. dairy exports. with china and canada not far behind. wisconsin is as you know, one of america's top dairy producing states. maybe it's the top one. it couldn't come at a worse time as farmers are struggling to deal with an overproduction of milk. von hilliard has been traveling across the country taking a look at the tariffs. he joins us now from a dairy farm in plymouth, wisconsin. >> good afternoon. you said it. milk industry was already struggling here. over the last three years, they've been dealing with overproduction. they've been getting a higher yield, more milk produceded, but they've had to complete with the likes of alternatives to milk.
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soy, almond, so what has happened, the president has name checked these farmers. wisconsin dairy farmers for wangs this trade war as it stands. while he's noted that canada has high tariffs on u.s. dairy product, what has happened as a result of this trade war is as you mentioned. china and mexico have now put on tariffs on u.s. dairy products. for example, 90% of u.s. cheese goes over to mexico. that's $400 million worth. a huge export market for this country. and to note, when we're on farms here, like this is mike's farm. mike and his wife, they chose to expand farm the 1300 cows. that's a major operation. he said they are having to borrow from the bank to keep afloat. they have 30 employees and that's why he says he have to have that confidence for the president to ultimately open up those markets back into china,
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mexico and canada. thbs what mike told us just yesterday. >> it's a, it's been a tough couple of years here. we are not able to cash flow at the current milk prices. we've had better times. there's a lot of things that affect the milk price. trade. tariffs. it tacks a strong will once in a while to open your check and see what you haven't made. what you have lost per se and try to farm every day. when the agricultural out here in the community dies, the whole community dies. you know, we offer jobs. our 30 employees, they rely on us for their paycheck. >> as you heard from mike there, this is significant right here.
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9500 dairy farmers in wisconsin alone. he's been farming since 1851, his family has. there's these manufacturing plants. exports to 49 different coun countries. i want to correct a quick fact. it's 28% of u.s. cheese that foreclosure goes to mexico. $400 million. one other note, it's not just cheese. not just milk. it's harley davidson. it's soybeans. it's corn farmers. cranberries. the paper companies. you said that 90% is cheese so, if the farm you're on, if they're selling their cheese to their milk to sartori and the
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cheese doesn't get exported, it's not easy for that farmer to find someone else to buy his milk. >> that's right. this farm that we're standing on here, they sell all of their milk to the cheese company and when they lose their market in china, in mexico, which they have, really this farm here, they have no control. over their milk because they rely on sartori to build up the foreign markets so when they come back and say sorry, we don't have a place to sell. cheese goes down. the price of milk goes down. o while people in their homes will get a better price, it's the folks here k mig, lori, paul et, it's all of these farmers, the ones that aren't going to be able to sustain these farms for much longer. >> thanks for your continued work on figuring out the people being affected. coming up, a new gun debate is taking shape on capitol hill. maybe one that the president and the democrats agree on.
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3d prined guns. the new push to stop a guy from telling everyone from how to make them. you're watching msnbc. the fact is, there are over ninety-six hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that's very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. but no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours. now that you know the truth, are you in good hands? i couldn't catch my breath. it was the last song of the night. it felt like my heart was skipping beats.
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to help protect yourself from a stroke. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. to help protect yourself from a stroke. i we worked with pg&eof to save energy because wenie. wanted to help the school. they would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didn't cut off the light.
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the teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. so they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights! those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. we actually saved $50,000. and that's just one school, two semesters, three girls. together, we're building a better california. got a live look at president
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trump trying depart joint base andrews. a little later on, holding rally. during the president's executive time this morning, he thrust into the spotlight the very controversial issue of 3d printed guns, tweeting he's looking into it and talked to the nra about it, which is puzing l, giving he's the president and has agencies he can talk to about this. let's see why we are not talking about printed guns ch last month, the department of justice and the state department surprised everyone by dropping its lawsuit against a designer from post iing his blueprints f printing guns. cody wilson has argued his violated his first ament rights, so now, about 20 states are suing him as well as the state department to block wilson from putting the plans online. but they're sort of too late because the company posted the plans last friday and the plans have been down loaded thousands of times. i want to take a look at what
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they are. conventional gunman fak manufac requires a serial number so they can be fras traced, but with a printer, there's no way to enforce those laws. among the fire warms and components are plans to print a full size beretta m 9 and receiver for ark r-5. you can't print the entire rifle, but you can print several key components that allowed the desire to fire 600 rounds in this test this year. and more concerning to lawmakers is the liberator. the first weapon designed by wilson to single shot polymer weapon. the only non3d parts in this are
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the ammunition and a small nail. now some worryle firearms act of 1988 and can be brought undetected into schools, planes and other public places. >> coming to a theatre near you, come tog a school near you. coming to a sports stadium, to any public place. these ghost guns are a new way in gun violence. >> ghost guns is what they're being called. for more, i'm joined by andy greenberg. you've spent a lot of time on this. >> i've been talking to wilson who created this for six years now. since he first declared this was thiz goal and in 2013 when he fired the first gun f i was there. >> what's his thinking on this?
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>> he calls himself an anarchisting even an extremist, he wants to be able to access a gun. he's willing to allow even some of those people to get guns. not his goal, but he's willing to risk that for this larger purpose of just e vis rating all gun control. >> because he's an anarchist or libertarian, he doesn't think government should be imposing restriction. >> he sees this as a demonstration of the era where technology trumps law. and essentially government becomes obsolete. thanks to the internet. >> what does he make of the law in is he trying get a supreme court case or working to work around existing laws? >> he's a former law student. a law school dropout and he is r
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very smart and kind of almost devious in finding these cracks in the law where he can insert a wedge and create this controversy. so in this case, he's made the argument it's a file that anybody can download to make a gun. that's protected by the first amendment. >> he's saying he's not making guns. not skirting the law. he's putting something on the internet. >> he's been, he was forced to take these files offline because of export controls as if he had shift a plastic gun to iran or something when in fact, he had just put a file on the internet, which is international, so now he's making the argument that that is free speech. >> the nra described as innovative.
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>> ill informed tweet said he's talked to the nra about this. that doesn't mean he supports 3-d printed guns. it functions as a group to help sell guns not to help people make them at home. zpl gun laws this this country, federal law, operate under the justice department. the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. why is the state department the one involved in suing this company? >> this obscure part of the state department controls the export of munitions grades weapons, so this little regulatory body in 2013 after o cody wilson uploaded this, told him he had to take it offline because he was essentially exporting a weapon. that's where the fight has been. >> essentially, the state has settled with him and given him everything he wanted. >> the obama state department did that and the trump state
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department upheld that. why did they suddenly change? >> we don't know and they haven't talk ed ab it. that's part oof why now more than 20 attorneys general around the country, the state level, state attorneys general are now suing the state department for essentially making this rule change without public comment, without explanation, which violates administrative procedures of how you change these rules. >> is there a sense the tooth paste is out of the tube. >> i don't believe it's a useful struggle to try to control the spread of these files at this point. they've already been download ld thousands of times of the website. it doesn't seem like this kind of control of the files is going to work. >> regulation has to be on guns that you print at home. >> we've seen some states ban so-called ghost guns. guns that are unregulated, that don't have serial numbers. >> pennsylvania. >> and california has taken
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steps. that's another avenue that lawmakers seem to be taking. kind of makes more sense if you are a gun control advocate. >> thanks so much for joining us. the senior wrirt at wired. coming up, good news, the white house is reportedly planning to wa roll out another wave of tax cuts and the it can blow past congress to cut the fat cats some slackful we'll tell you how. you're watching msnbc. hey there people eligible for medicare.
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america's wealthiest taxpayers could be in for another break. the treasury department is considering a change to the capital gains tax that would result in a $100 billion tax cut for the wealthy according to reports today in "the new york times," "the washington post" and "the wall street journal." let's take a closer look. first, what are capital gains? the profit from the sale of property or another type of investment such as stock. the federal government currently taxes the difference between the purchase price and the sale price of an asset. obviously you're not going to pay tax on your initial investment or the cost, but the difference between the cost and selling price is taxed at a rate of 23.8%. that's capital gains. here's an example. if you invested a million dollars in an asset in 1990 and sold it for $3 million this year, you'd owe taxes on the $2 million difference, your tax bill would be $476,000. but the treasure ary department is considering changes the
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definition of cost by allowing for investors to account for inflation when determining their tax liability, so what would that mean? take the same example. adjusting for inflation, the same $1 million in 1990 woul now cost nearly $2 million. $1.9 million. so the difference between the purchase price and sale price would be cut in half. reducing the tax bill to just $255,000. that's a difference of more than 220,0$220,000. compared to the 47$,000 tax bill if they didn't this change. 220,000 that the u.s. treasury would lose out on. such a change would result in an estimated $100 billion, but it would dig into the federal government and put it into a deeper fiscal hole than it's in thanks to the last round of tax cuts, which mostly benefitted the wealthiest americans. joining me now to take a closer look at this is al rapoport, he wrote the times article on the
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propo proposed change. the only argument you could use for this is that somehow, the 220 saied is going to be beneficial to the committee. other wise, it looks like what it sounds like, a tax cut for the rich. >> people argue it's inefficient for people to be holing on to these. as opposed to the real true asset. it would be a big benefit to the rich about 97% of the gains would go to the top 10%. two-thirds would go to the top 0.1%. so while most people would benefit somewhat, it would go to the top portion of taxpayers. >> according to the university of pennsylvania wharton school, donald trump's alma mater,
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indexing capital gains to inflation could cost the treasury at least 102 billi$102 is there some obvious off set to that, somewhere we'd gain it? >> potentially, if there was economic growth, that's what republicans and the administration might say it could yield faster economic growth because that's what tax cuts always do. but realistically, we're looking at $2 billion loss in revenue over ten years. that comes at a time when treasuries are seeing corporate receipts down a lot because the last round of tax cuts an borrowing is coming up to levels we haven't seen since the financial crisis. >> are there other countries that do this? it doesn't come to mind, but i understand the rationale behind saying look, there would have been inflation any way on a particular asset, so you shouldn't have the to pay the difference. is that a trend around the world? >> it's not necessarily a common
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thing around the world and it would be unusual for the united states to be doing this. sort of by fiat. they've tried to do it congressionally before. in 1982 b, george bush looked into seeing whether or not his treasury department could codo it. they concluded they didn't have the authority to do so. the office of legal counsel agreed with him. so this would be breaking new ground. >> that's the thinking, we can do something that will affect the federal budget and deficit, but don't have to do it. that's the thinking they have on this? >> that's what they're trying to decide and steve b b moven when i interviewed him about this, he was emphatic they're trying to decide whether or not they have the authority to do so. it's clear it's whether or not somebody would stand to lose
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manage something. what's the loser in this? that's a really interesting point. i want to put up the budget deficit projections. we are showing increased from projections for the next ten years. in theory, rich people will benefit from this, but as we have bigger and bigger budget deficits, poor people lose because social services get cut as a result. >> that's potentially the case. there could always be additional compliance costs by indexing everything to inflation as opposed to the way we do it now. it depends on how we go about doing this. what kind of assets. some legal aspects say debt holders could lose out in some cases and definitely, people who oppose the administration, republicans trying to do this, woul find a way to bring a lawsuit if they could find somebody to sue. >> very muthanks very much.
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now to breaking news on the sexual misconduct allegations against the ceo of cbs. prosecutors in los angeles tell nbc news they will not file charges in connection with allegations made by a woman who said he abused her on three occasions because the statue of limitations has expired. the woman went to the police this past february. nbc reached out for comment on these allegations. this comes days after "the new yorker" publisheded an article detailing allegations made by six women. it's not known if the woman in this case among those who spoke to "the new yorker," the cbs board announced yesterday it's in the board of selecting an outside counsel to investigate the allegations against him. coming up after president trump said he'd meet with iran's leader with no preconditions, it seems iran doesn't take the same position. what tehran says it wants before any summit. you're watch msnbc. eart valve p. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin,
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come hok., babe. nasty nighttime heartburn? try new alka-seltzer pm gummies. the only fast, powerful heartburn relief plus melatonin so you can fall asleep quickly. ♪ oh, what a relief it is! iran is answering trump's abrupt proposal to meet with its leaders any time with no preconditions, and the answer is no direct talk also happen until the american president reverses his decision to pull out of the iranian nuclear agreement. about an hour ago, iran's foreign minister referred to the plan of action, the jcpoa,
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better known as the iran nuclear deal saying -- >> but as iran considers the president's proposal, a u.s. state department official says as of now there aren't plans in motion for any engagement with iran. joining me now is corey henderstein, responsible for the development and implementation of policy and activities related to the iran nuclear deal. she now serves as the vice president of international fuel cycle strategies at the nuclear threat initiative. good to see you. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> there was a lot of talking that was done with iran in the days leading up to the joint comprehensive plan of action, or the iran deal. we think of it as a couple of years because america was involved in it for a couple of years. but it was closer to ten years of negotiations. >> there is a lot of engagement that leads up to any serious
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negotiation, especially about an issue as complicated as the iranian nuclear program and on the u.s. side as the unwinding of a lot of sanctions. so there's a lot that happens before the formal negotiation and a lot on the table. >> what do you make of this idea that the president campaigned on the idea that he was going to rip up the deal, he comes into office and does what he says he's going to do, and almost immediately starts talking about discussing things with iran. it does seem counterproductive. if you thought there was something to talk about, why not talk about it when you have a zeal? >> i think that we had a foundation in place that reduced the risk posed by the iranian nuclear program, and was a platform, a foundation that we could seek to engage iran in a lot of the other problematic activity that the president has pointed out. i think right now we're in a position where we can't just unwind that decision. and so if we say is there benefit to engaging with the
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iranians? i would argue there's always benefit to engagement. but we would have to connect to iran in good faith and have to hope that they were connecting in good faith. right now i don't think either side has demonstrated that. >> but john kerry and wendy c r sherman have both side so much of that negotiation leading up to the deal was not really negotiation, it was figuring out where everybody's limits and lines were, and what conditions could exist for making a deal. in other words, that's really hard work. the idea that you throw the baby out with the bath water and decide you're going to start again, these dealing don't get made overnight. iran and america have people who never wanted a deal between these two countries. >> it's very important to recognize that these things don't happen quickly, and it wasn't just the united states involved, it was the eu, france, germany, the uk, france, russia and china.
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so we did have to do a lot of work, and the reason we were able to do that is because we developed a policy, and then evaluated the negotiated outcomes against those policy objectives. right now what would be important is if the president is serious about potentially engaging with iran again, we have to develop a policy that takes into account all of the technical scope, the financial and sanctions issues that the treasury department can bring, the diploma that the state department can bring. and this has to be part of a coordinated strategy that brings in all of the relevant agent sis. that kind of preparation for a negotiation is vitally important if we want to reach an outcome that will be in the benefit of the united states and our allies. >> corey, is there -- you know, this business of no preconditions. nothing really happens with the president of the united states or leaders without preconditions. it doesn't really have a meaning to it. >> i would say preconditions are in the eye of the beholder. the preconditions, are they a
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specific action that has to be taken? but if it's come to the table with a joint understanding of the scope of what we're going to talk about, and the objectives that we are each seeking, then i think that's a different kind of precondition, and it's the kind that is the precursor for any successful negotiation. >> corey henderstein, responsible for the development of the iran nuclear deal, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back after this quick break. you're watching msnbc. nobody else even comes close. now starting at $7.99. gillette. the best a man can get.
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when you're talking about 3-d guns, so is heather nauert. let's listen. >> we were informed that we would have lost this case in court or likely lost this case in court based on first amendment grounds. we took the advice of the department of justice and here we are right now. i think ultimately what this gets down to is a domestic case where tit's a domestic gun control issue that needs to be addressed. >> this busy hour has come to a close. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. with stephanie ruhle and again at 3:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. >> hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. president trump's former campaign chairman paul manafort
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is on trial today. the trial is the first criminal trial in the mueller investigation. it will offer the public a glimpse at the evidence gathered against man fauafort and could serve to squeeze on manafort to cooperate on the broader investigation into russian collusion with the trump campaign. "the subtext whether he knew about russian efforts to influence the election and whether the threat of conviction could lead him to cooperate with special counsel robert mueller weighs not just on the prosecution and the defense, but on the white house, as well." among the americans charge sod far by prosecutors, mr. manafort not only held the highest position in the campaign, but arguably has the deepest connections to russian political forces. then manafort trial commences on the same day that p


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