tv MSNBC Live With David Gura MSNBC August 12, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
well, we're at the top of the hour which means i'm out. david gura is in. all yours. >> richard, thank you. great to see you. i'm david gura at msnbc headquarters in new york. oh, lordy, there are tapes, apparently. omarosa says she has recordings from her time in the white house and today we're listening to one of them. >> if i didn't have these recordings, no one in america would believe me. no one. so i protected and i'm so glad i did. >> much more from chuck todd's exclusive interview from omarosa including whether she actually heard president trump use a racial slur. plus one year later we are live in charlottesville and washington, d.c., where protests are taking place a year to the day after those deadly riots. and near the finish line, rudy giuliani says robert mueller should wrap up his investigation by the end of the month. so who is his source? >> september 1st was the date that bob mueller gave me.
back two months ago where he said, when we were talk about getting his report done he threw out the date september 1 as being a reasonable date to get it done. >> all right. the anniversary of charlottesville, president trump is spending the day in bedminster, new jersey, but on twitter he is calling for americans to come together as one of his former advisers in an exclusive interview with chuck todd says she heard donald trump on tape using the "n" word while he was working on "the apprentice." >> you have heard the tape? >> i had heard the tape. >> since publication of this book. >> absolutely. >> so you know it exists. >> i know it exists and what i regret these people are trying to leverage it as a october surprise. i don't want to be part of that. but i heard for two years that it existed and once i heard it for myself it was confirmed what i fear the most. that donald trump is a con and has been mass quer raiding --
masquerading as someone who is open to working with the diverse communities but he's truly a racist. >> this weekend the president is saying this about omarosa. >> do you feel betrayed by omarosa? >> she's a low life. another white nationalist rally is scheduled to take place this afternoon and there have been several counterprotests. joining me is mike bennett and tell us where you're standing. what you have seen thus far. what you expect this afternoon. >> well, as you can see, richard -- good afternoon to you. i'm right in downtown washington. they call this freedom plaza. down my street over my shoulder the u.s. capitol and between me and the capitol the trump international hotel. we are literally depending on the time of day and the season of the year in the shadow of that tower for the trump hotel. about 1,000 people gathered here. that was the permit they got from the park service, from the d.c. police.
we have heard speeches all day. there are all points of the political spectrum of the left side everyone in socialists to communists, to those more towards the center. all united in one belief -- fighting fascism, fighting the white supremacist message and march and they're all marching up the street. it's a block and a half, to lafayette park which is at a 1600 pennsylvania avenue. just across from the white house. the killing of heather heyer one year ago in charlottesville is weighing heavily on their minds here. a lot of people are out there because they're outraged over what's happened. you had that discussion just a moment ago with omarosa on "meet the press." talking about whether or not president trump is a racist. that case is not going to have to be made to this crowd here today. they're vehemently anti-president trump. they're here to fight the fascists. even though the organizers are
pleading with participants not to engage in any physical confrontation with those on the right or the alt-right as they call themselves. their unity is going to drown out whatever it is those alt-right members have to say in their march later today. >> jeff, let me turn to you now. let me is you about lafayette park where this is going to come to a head in the 5:00 hour. this is a small park north of the white house. this white nationalist group has a permit to protest there. my understanding is that two counterprotest groups have permits as well. what are the prospects like for conflict later on this afternoon? >> well, it's interesting, david, because law enforcement officials have told us that their number one goal is to keep the protesters and the counterprotesters separate. they do not want to see the kind of violent, bloody and deadly melee that we saw last year in charlottesville. so what you have is really a coordinated law enforcement effort. you have d.c. police, you have national park service and secret service all working together to
keep people safe. i would mention though that you heard vick viqueira mention 1,000 counterprotesters gathered where he is in a different part of washington, d.c. so the white nationalists who we expect to arrive in 20 minutes they have been outnumbered, david. the thing i wanted to draw you in on is when these protesters do arrive they're greeted by chalk messages that were left here presumably by the counterprotesters. win says be smart, be tolerant, be kind. another you see -- quotes from malcolm "x." writing in arabic. we understand that the white nationalists have gathered in northern virginia. they're on their way here. to the foggy bottom metro station. they're going to march for a mile over to lafayette square. then that rally will get under way at around 5:00. we expect it to wrap up around 7:00, 7:30 so you have five or
six hours to watch and wait what happens. >> i see you at g.w. hospital behind you. i see a police presence behind you. what's the security presence like between those two places? >> i'll tell you, pennsylvania avenue is shut down. this road will be shut down we're told when these white nationalists arrive. they're going to be escorted for lack of a better term on their way to lafayette square. the point here is not to give them safe passage, but to make sure that counterprotesters and random people who don't know what's going on who might encounter some of this, to make sure that they are safe. david? >> mike, you have a wide range of people on the political spectrum today, and it's happening today because of what happened in charlottesville last year. how much of what's happening there about that, about remembering what happened and marking what happened in charlottesville a year ago? >> well, it's a huge amount.
judging from all of the conversations i have had today i talked to one man. his name is bill berk, he was with heather heyer. after that car -- the driver controversy his car into the crowd of counterprotesters last year, killing heather heyer, he ended up laying on top of her. he sustained injuries he's still struggling with to his arm and his head. just to echo what jeff is saying about the security here. d.c. police have come under a lot of criticism lately particularly go back to the inauguration when antifa and far left elements smashed windows and the police made arrests, but not before damage was done. there are antifa elements here. that's why the police -- one of the reasons as jeff outlined have vowed to keep these two opposing factions, very emotional and these groups that have visceral hatred for each other apart when they are facing
each other. >> mike viqueira and jeff bennett outside the metro station at george washington united states. the white nationalists are expected to come to george washington university and make their way to the plaza just north of the white house. we'll follow this all afternoon right here on msnbc. i want to bring in betsy woodruff, a reporter for the daily beast and gabe, let me start with you. what we have heard from the president on this thus far. it's confined to 280 characters. the riots in charlottesville a year ago resulted in senseless death and division. we must come together as a nation. i condemn all types of racism and acts of violence. peace to all americans. let's go back a year ago, the extraordinary press conference that took place here in new york
in trump tower in the marble foyer. how has his approach to this, his awareness changed at if at all? >> i don't think it's changed much at all. i think there are some se plant cal differences on the margin. he understands his solid base comes from the alt-right, so he wants to keep them in the tent. as i reported in a piece in the "vanity fair," speaker of the house ryan called donald trump and he said, listen, these people hate your daughter and son-in-law because jared kushner and ivanka trump are both jewish. the white nationalists hate his family and he needed to condemn them. we saw even then he did not come out forcefully. i think that shows the extent to which donald trump does not want to split off this base from his coalition. >> betsy, on that point, we see
here again today this divide between the president and those who are close to him. be they members of his professional staff or his family or in the case of president trump both as is often the case. ivanka trump tweeted something different from what we heard from the president, sending out three tweets about how she's marking this anniversary, what we should be doing to unify this country. what do you make of that division? again, the third or the fourth time we have seen that happen here in the last few months. >>. it's interesting seeing ivanka sort of take a small side step away from her father's rhetoric. of course based on what i have seen out there she hasn't gone so far as to suggest her father has handled this in a way that's fueled divides rather than remedied them. her vocalness still on this issue recalls the approach that melania trump has taken to the other issues with the president as well where she's being willing to take a slight step away from him. particularly on the family separation question where she thought that immigrant children being separated from their
families was something that was a bad thing rather than a good policy aim. these steps that ivanka and melania trump have taken are not having any sort of impact on policy. they don't seem to be having any impact on the way that the government actually functions. there's little discernible connection between the statements these women have made and the behavior that the president has taken. although ultimately of course the president did finally after significant controlling decide to try to end the policy of actively separating families from their children. at the same time though i think it's important not to overstate the significance of these statements. ivanka is doing what the vast majority of normal americans would do if they were in this situation of watching white supremacists march and demonstrate in washington, d.c. >> i want to play a little tape, gabe. this is congressman elijah cumming. he was on this week with jonathan karl, talking about that tweet from the president of the united states. >> i think it's a low bar for the president of the united
states to simply say he's against racism. he's got to do better than that. he has to address the people who are espousing racist type of comments and doing racial -- racist acts. and the white supremacy, he can't say those words. >> gabe, you were so good at pulling back the curtain giving us insight into the -- what takes place inside the white house. as betsy said a moment ago, that tweet came about after a lot of cajoling. how does the president decide when to speak up? i saw he had a meeting with the motorcycle enthusiasts at bedminster but no opportunity for him to deliver a formal statement or to address this head on as a predecessor might have. how does he decide when to speak out? how does he decide when forcefully to speak out about something? what does that cajoling look like? >> i think it depends on the way
it's covered in the news media and in particular on race, the president feels that the media are painting him in a certain way and he digs in even more. so the more coverage this issue gets a this is especially true during charlottesville he will not back down. so it has a fdback loop where he'll dig in even further on that position. so i think that is emblematic of this. i think we should back up and point out that during the campaign, obviously in the beginning the racial undertones were an animating force of his campaign and picking a fight with lebron james and speaking out against nfl players. so this is a through line. whether or not there's a tweet one way or the other about racism i think there's a through line that extends from the very time he rode down the escalator in 2015 to announce his candidacy. >> you heard omarosa manigault newman, some people think she's doing that as an october surprise.
she is adding more fuel to the fire with the president and race. what did you hear from her on the interview on nbc's "meet the press" with chuck todd, what does that tell you additionally about this president's approach to race? >> it's tough to take anything that omarosa says at face value. and she during this publicity campaign has actually undermined her own arguments by making contradictory statements on npr versus what she wrote in her book. she in her book she was told by people sot of through the grapevine that -- sort of through the grapevine that the president said a racial slur. it's a big difference between hearing about audio and hearing audio itself. that said i think part of the reason that the arguments that omarosa is presenting, both in this media blitz and in her book are resonating with people is because the president has such a troubling track record on these racial questions. going all the way decades back
to when he took out newspaper ads in new york city papers calling for the execution of the central park five. five african-american young men who were ultimately exonerated by dna evidence. there's been litigation that the president's properties have discriminated against black people, refusing to rent apartments to them et cetera. there's plenty of examples. i think it's part of the reason that omarosa is saying has gotten so much attention and steam. >> betsy woodruff, thank you for. and gabe, thank you, as we continue to look at pictures of the freedom plaza, cater the corner to the willard hotel. counterprotesters are gathered north of the white house in washington, d.c. as we continue this conversation about race, i want to go to msnbc's cal perry. live in charlottesville, virginia. cal, what are you seeing there? extraordinary moment this morning when we heard from the president of the university of
virginia, offering a formal apology about what happened last year. what's been happening there in charlottesville today? >> we are seeing continuation of what has been a very ugly weekend between antifa protesters and law enforcement behind me. we'll show you the antifa protesters. we will immediately -- go ahead, randy. very small group that's split in half. they are incredibly abrasive to the media and to law enforcement. one of the things going on all day is that antifa is saying that law enforcement was responsible for the violence that we saw a year ago. that they did not protect the people of charlottesville from that radical right violence that we saw. so what we have seen all weekend is folks coming out here yelling incredibly anti-cop slogans at this law enforcement which i have to say last night, there was a bit of a running scuffle between protesters and police and the charlottesville police did a tremendous job of keeping
things calm in the city. at one point we saw police rolling on the ground with some of these protesters and that is a point usually where you see these things coming to a swift end, david. >> cal perry from charlottesville, virginia. where those riots, the protests took place a year ago. you might have heard some explicit language at the top of the interview and i apologize for that. a small but rowdy crowd in charlottesville, virginia. coming up here, i'll ask a member of the congressional black caucus karen bass about the protests and we'll talk about the midterms and priorities for the democrats. if they were to win back the house of representatives. hold on, don't worry, there's another way [siri: *beep beepá] directions to the greek theater. ♪ can i get a connection? can i get can i get a connection? ♪ ♪ i can see it in my, see it in my reflection. ♪
of americans surveyed say that racial tensions have increased over the past year. 58% of respondents say they disapprove of how president trump is handling race relations in this country. joining me is karen bass of california. it's great to speak with you once again. i first want to ask you how you're marking this solemn occasion, what happened in charlottesville last year. >> by being very active in my community, of course. i'm glad that there's so many people out there protesting against racism. the idea that they're getting ready to have this march that we'll be right in front of the white house. you know, i was disappointed by the president's tweet where he talked about he was opposed to all forms of racism. to me, that was just code to say i am not going to oppose white supremacy. where he's appalled by nfl players who take a knee to protest police abuse, i don't see any of his protesting about the nazi flags that will be
paraded right near the white house in just a few hours. >> you bring up the tweet. the president hasn't said anything about what happened in charlottesville more explicit listen than that have you given up on the president to say anything unifying about lessons learned from has year? >> i think the president has a 40-plus year history of appalling behavior on race and making racist statements. i mean, how many years did he talk about where president obama was born? asking for president obama's transcripts. your previous guest talked about the central park five. his history on housing discrimination. his attacks on latinos. he's been very, very consistent. the way he talked about african-american communities. so i don't know why we'd expect different from him. i would love to think that one day he would recognize that he is supposed to be the president
for the entire country and not the president for his base. >> congresswoman, you're talking about his history with race. it's something we heard about this morning as well as one of his former advisers, omarosa manigault newman sat down with my colleague chuck todd on nbc's "meet the press." let's listen to what she said had to say. >> once i heard it, it was can confirmed, donald trump is a con and is masquerading to engaging with diverse communities. it confirmed he is truly a racist. >> congresswoman, what do you make of this? omarosa who is known -- who has known donald trump for well over a decade, sits down to write a memoir and has a moment of awareness i guess. her eyes are opened to what the president is really like. how do you react to what she is saying there and what she's saying about the president and race? >> well, the only positive part of it, was she acknowledged her
own complicity in his behavior. i could care less if he used the "n" word ever in his life. his history of racism is clear, well documented. we try to couch it by using different words. he's insensitive, et cetera. she has known all of this. but what is disappointing is that when it came to her personally being fired and the issue in the situation room was very interesting. i have been in the situation room before. you're not allowed to bring phones in there. so i guess clearly chief of staff kelly was concerned about being taped. but i think that it's disappointing she rests everything on his use of one word and that when it personally affected her, that's now when she's willing to speak out. the only legitimacy to me of what she's saying now, she was complicit for years. not only in defending him, but
being critical of anyone who attack him. >> she said it was recorded in the secure location, a skiff, her talking to white house chief of staff kelly about her future in the white house. i want to pivot here and talk about the midterms. the cook political report is looking at house seats up for grabs here. 62 seats up for grabs. you were paying close attention i'm sure to what happened in ohio last week. i know you're paying attention to what's going to happen here in a couple month's times when the voters go to the polls. how does it change your perception of what will happen in november? >> i think it gives us a sense that we are on the verge of taking back the house. now i don't want to take anything for granted because we thought something was going to happen in 2016. that didn't. however, we are working very hard to make sure that we do have a victory in november. my focus specifically is on
southern california because we have the possibility of turning several seats here blue. but i think the fact that this race is still undecided in ohio is huge. this is a race that we shouldn't have even been in contention for. so i think that it doesn't bode very well for the republicans. and trump might feel that he's going to save the day but when he goes around the country having these rallies, one thing that he's always consistent about, the majority of the time he's talking about himself. he's not even talking about the candidates he's promoting. >> the democratic candidate in that race in the 12th district, special election, has been described as a moderate. he describes himself as a danny crat and he said he wouldn't support nancy pelosi as house speaker if democrats got control of the house again after the midterm elections. the house minority leader was talking to my friend and colleague, jonathan kay part. let's listen.
>> i haven't asked a candidate of an incumbent for a vote. what's important, i know better than anybody how important it is to win this election. i do believe that none of us is indispensable but i think the best person for the job. >> congresswoman, time for a change in leadership? 50 democrats are indicating that it might be. >> let me just tell you, i heard that interview. i think that she's right. the most important thing is for these candidates to win their elections. and they need to run for their districts and in some districts she has been vilified. but now i have been in congress eight years and i have heard this vilification of her for that entire time. i think that it's getting really old. i think that the republicans are finding that they have absolutely nothing else to run on but that. and that that is not even working anymore. we have a lot of leaders within our caucus. we have young leaders, we have newer leaders. not everybody is a question of age. some people run for congress in
later years. i think that there is a lot of leadership, a lot of potential. and we will see i am hopeful that we'll take back the house. she said she's not even going to campaign until that happens, she hasn't asked for my vote. i'm positive and hopeful that we'll take back the house today. >> joining us from los angeles, 37th district in california, congresswoman karen bass. thank you very much for the time on this sunday. >> thank you. up next, revisionist history. president trump's lawyer now changing his tune about what the president said to then fbi director james comey about the national security adviser michael flynn. what is rudy giuliani saying now? your mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist
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welcome back. i'm david gura. highlights another contradiction in the russia investigation, james comey was never asked to go easy on the former national adviser michael flynn. a reminder that's not what the former fbi director testified when he bent before the lawmakers. the back and forth goes back and forth between the lawyers and the office.
here is is rudy giuliani saying that the -- that mueller would have it wrapped up. >> september 1st was the date that mueller gave to me. he threw out september 1 as being a reasonable date to get it done. >> joining me is katie fang and a former prosecutor. they are both msnbc contributors. paul, let me start with the last bit of tape there. we have heard a lot -- a lot from the president's lawyers about how this process is unfolding. the special counsel hasn't been saying much about this back and forth. but rudy giuliani is saying they're trying to find out what the contours of the interview would look like. what do you make of where we are and what rudy giuliani said about this deadline that robert mueller purportedly told him about. >> rudy giuliani is a confused and ill-prepared lawyer who has a client, president trump, who appears to lie to his lawyer as much as he does the american people. the mueller investigation will
not end september 1st. we know that in part because they have subpoenaed a witness to the grand jury who's going to appear september 7th so i think we can expect that this investigation will go on for quite some time in part because of the justice department's 60 day policy which means that they don't bring indictments within 60 days of an election. midterm elections coming up in november. reading the tea leaves this investigation is going to go past that date. >> pick up on that if you would. there's the contradiction we see week after week about where things stand and what it looks like with the special counsel. and what we heard from rudy giuliani today about what happened when the president met with james comey, james comey has maintained all along in the testimony and in the book he wrote as well, that the president explicitly asked him to go easy on michael flynn.
what do you make of this about face from rudy giuliani here, katie? we're -- >> a credibility -- it depends on the day of the week what giuliani is saying. he's saying that conversation never happened but a couple of months ago he said that the actual words that trump used to comey was can you give a man a break? and so really it focuses on what giuliani said today which is in order for trump to commit obstruction of justice, he has to take quote extreme action. and he gave an example which i don't think paul or i learned in law school which is trump would have to put a gun to someone's head to obstruct justice. we know that legal concepts don't support that idea. so giuliani once again has flipped the side, has now decided that the position they'll take is obstruction of justice. hasn't occurred because trump never said that directive or that order to james comey, but who could answer that question, best, that would be donald trump himself and whether he sits down
is left up to whether or not mueller subpoenas him to appear before the grand jury. >> first of all, it's not a crime, collusion and if trump did it, then it's legal. so again, which one is it? you can't have it both ways. you can't say "a" something isn't a crime and then if -- and that you didn't do it. >> paul, what has happened to rudy giuliani? this is a guy who was the u.s. attorney in the southern district. the most prominent, important u.s. attorney's job and he goes on to become a high ranking official in the justice department. you talked about the disconnect between the lawyer and the client. we saw rudy giuliani on jay sekulow's show, hosting sean hannity's radio show at the end of the week. he was a great lawyer for a large part of his career. >> a couple of things.
first on this day when we're remembering what happened in charlottesville a year ago and we have nazis marching in front of the white house, it's important to remember that rudy giuliani to the black and latino residents of new york city has never been a hero. he's always been violent. he supported violence by the police against communities of color. and he's never been in favor of civil liberties. civil rights, other than for rich, white men. the whole country is learning again what people of color have known for a long time. but with regard to the president, he's a hype man. he's a tv lawyer. he's paying -- playing to that constituency, not a court of law. and he's making some inroads, so, you know, to give him his props he understands that president trump will not be indicted in a criminal court. mueller will deliver a report to the congress and then it will be up to the congress to act. what we're hearing from many congressmen is they don't care
if the president colluded or obstructed justice. the most important concern is keeping him in office no matter what. >> thank you both. a live look here at washington and at freedom plaza right off of pennsylvania avenue in northwest d.c. protesters there have been gathering for most of the day. the one year anniversary of the deadly protests in charlottesville, virginia. we'll have much more on the racial tensions across the country when we come back. (vo) why do subaru forester owners always seem so happy? because they've chosen the industry leader. subaru forester holds its value better than any other vehicle in its class according to alg. better than cr-v. better than rav4. better than rogue. an adventure that starts with a subaru forester will always leave you smiling. get 0% percent apr financing on the 2018 subaru forester.
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welcome back. i'm david gura with a live look at washington, d.c., right now. on the left-hand side, you see freedom plaza on pennsylvania avenue. just east of the white house, a couple of blocks north of the mall in washington, d.c. gathered there a lot of counterprotesters, there to protest against a rally of white supremacists that's scheduled to take place right in front of the white house, just north of the white house on lafayette plaza at 5:30 eastern time. the organizers of that rally, participants in it are making their way from the vienna metro station just west of washington in northern virginia, via metro, to foggy bottom where the george washington university is. look at that screen on the upper right corner, you see some police officers, some folks standing. that's the entrance to the subway station from which those white supremacists, protesters,
are expected to emerge and they'll make their way from foggy bottom to lafayette plaza just north of the white house. we'll be monitoring this throughout the afternoon, only. joining me is roland martin from tv one's news one now and ashley allison senior adviser of the leadership conference. roland, i want to get your perspective on this day, what we're seeing, what you're thinking as you look at the pictures. several hundred gathered there on freedom plaza. the anticipation as we await to see who will emerge from the subway station in a couple hour's time. >> this no is surprise. i have been talking about this since 2009 we're living in an age of white minority resistance. we will be a majority of people of color and there are white men that can't handle that. because look, this has been a nation that was founded, that was founded for white male land
owners. women could not vote. african-americans were not even citizens. when we talk about latinos and asians, and so what we have are people who cannot handle the demographic changes we are seeing. which laura ingraham talked about on fox news this week. this is a reality, this not going to away if trump loses in 2020. we'll be dealing with this for 25 plus years in america. >> roland brought up that extraordinary open that laura ingraham read on wednesday night. she clearly expressed some frustration about where this country is today and where it's headed. i'll point out there were millions of people who watch that show and listen to her every day on the radio as well. what do you make of this moment when you look at -- when you look at the plaza, when you look at freedom plaza and look at what's happening in washington, d.c. today. >> the reality is that we have a president that gives white nationalists and laura ingraham a platform to push forward hate and bigotry.
this is an administration that has put forth the muslim ban and a citizenship question on the census. has separated families of immigrant communities, has called black athletes s.o.b.s to protest the police violence. >> well, we must go deeper, because see, we're looking at the individuals who are marching these white supremacists who are marching. that's not really who we should be concerned about. we should be concerned about the individuals who are smart enough not to march but who are sitting in politics and in corporate america, who are sitting in media. individuals who are controlling the apparatus. who are sitting on wall street. who hold these feelings in terms of different feelings about minorities. in terms of not providing opportunities. that's the real issue here. i think too often we overlook
that. too often we somehow believe that it's only the people who are walking with confederate flags or having hoods or who are yelling white lives matter. no, the individuals who have racial animus who are in positions of power. that to me is even more deadly because you know what they don't wear the hoods. but they wear suits. they wear ties. they make decisions that impact people of color every single day. >> ashley, i want you to wake in on that. roland is talking about the real signifiers, talking about another one as well, what omarosa alleges is on a tape. the president using the "n" word. how important are those real signifiers versus what's lurking behind the scenes that we don't see day in and day out? >> i completely agree with roland. there's a coalition of over 200 organizations that fight for civil and human rights and when we do that day in and day out,
we focus on policymakers to ensure that they're pushing forward a platform, and we focus on corporate america and on the individual who may have had an awakening unfortunately after the death of heather heyer. we at the leadership conference, we aren't just looking at the white nationalists that are marching today, but those who continue the hate and bigotry in our country. >> i would love to hear donald trump have some guts to come out and talk about the republicans and voter suppression and how they're trying to keep african-americans and young people and elderly from voting. i talked to pastor scott who talks about trump having an urban initiative. i saw this comment from sarah tim scott saying that trump has done things in the past year like opportunity zone, but guess what you have not heard? you have not heard donald trump give a speech on that. you have not heard him go before
the urban league or the naacp. why won't he talk publicly about the issues? >> you mentioned pastor darrell scott. i said come back when you got your report ready. we have not spoken -- i haven't seen that report. roland martin and ashley allison as well on this sunday. tonight as we remember that deadly clash between protesters and white nationalists in charlottesville, virginia, just one year ago, msnbc is going to share the story of a former white supremacist who has dedicated his life to reforming others. here is part of that documentary, called "breaking hate." >> the white power unit considers me the ultimate traitor. i always had to look over my shoulder. it's not something that i like to do. it's not something that i like to put my family through. but i know that when i get these responses it's touching their nerve. i know that i'm getting to them. and that means that i am on the
right track. i was willing to die for something a long time ago. that frankly was garbage. if somebody wants to hurt me now for doing the right thing, i'm okay with that. >> you can watch "breaking hate" tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern time right here on msnbc. possibilities than ever before. and american express has your back every step of the way- whether it's the comfort of knowing help is just a call away with global assist. or getting financing to fund your business. no one has your back like american express. so where ever you go. we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. we really pride ourselves on making it easy for you >> tech: at safelite autoglass, to get your windshield fixed. with safelite, you can see exactly when we'll be there. saving you time for what you love most. >> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪
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is not a marathon. it's a series of smart choices. and when you replace one meal or snack a day with glucerna made with carbsteady to help minimize blood sugar spikes you can really feel it. glucerna. everyday progress. moment. welcome back, i'm david gura. the trump administration released $195 million in military aid to egypt, money that was frozen last year by now
former secretary of state, rex tillerson, because of concerns over the country's human rights record. david kirk patrick was the "new york times" man during the spring. kirk patrick joins me now here in new york, reflecting on all this, in a new book called "into the hands of the soldiers." i want to ask you about the possibility of what happened when you go back to those couple of weeks that took place in tahrir square. you write, we set ourselves up for disappointment. where did it go? i was asked later in new york or london, what happened to the nonviolent western-friendly silicon valley uprising? who stole that image of the revolution? it was as much about western narcissism as it was about egypt. unpack that a little bit here. what did you first feel like things were beginning to turn, when the possibility began to dissipate? >> well, first of all, what i mean there is, and you know this as a journalist, when you're a western reporter there, you're going to find the people who are the most empathetic to try to --
that your readers can relate to. we daall did that. because some of these young liberals were so charismatic. what made that work was actually the unity of that moment. the fact that you had christians and islamists, rich people and poor people, old people and young people. every egyptian was out in the square. and the moment when things went south is when that unity had fractured. it wasn't overnight. it was over a period of time when power struggles between the factions began to tear that unity apart. and the military really saw an opportunity. >> you're very frank in the book. you were in washington, d.c., you hadn't been a foreign correspondent. there are moments you see a dead body for the first time, for instance. weeks after being there to cover what's going on there. i returned to that idea of possibility. what was it like to navigate that, to try to figure out how big this was going to be? >> well, it was exhilarating. i'm probably the luckiest journalist alive today to get there just as the whole thing unfolded. as you say, i was consistently
surprised. and i don't think that's just about my own weakness. and lack of insight. i think it's also because these events were not predictable. things unfolded in a way that nobody really honestly could have foreseen, as much as they might not now tell you otherwise. right up until the ku in 2013. >> as you detail in the book, it wasn't predictable for folks in the obama administration, as well. you highlight a divide between what the president thought might happen and what many if not all his advisers thought might happen. how did that play out? >> well, you know, i was able to obtain a detailed record of the last phone call that president obama had with president mohamed morsi, and also an islamist for the muslim brotherhood. 48 hours before mr. morsi was arrested, obama was on the phone with morsi, trying to help him figure out how to stay in office. if you build a unity government, if you bring in your civilian
opponents, you can still turn this around. meanwhile, his secretary of state, john kerry, made clear he had given up on morsi and thought his presidency was untenable. secretary of defense hagel, who was given stern talking points to try to tell his counterpart, the egyptian defense minister, you must not remove the elected president, we want democracy in egypt, he was focused mainly on building a friendship. and as soon as he was removed, it turns out that michael morell, who had been the acting head of the cia that whole time was openly cheering. an arab diplomat who supports a ku is called up and morel says thumbs up, i'm glad it happened. so clearly, there were mixed signals. if anybody was looking for the american government to put the brakes on the ku, and mohamed morsi was looking, that didn't happen. >> you were in d.c. before this happened. you have been watching what's been unfolding in washington today and certainly what happened in charlottesville last year when you were at the "times" in the early 2000s,
covering these right wing groups. with that perspective, what do you make of what we're seeing today in washington, d.c., a year out from what happened in charlottesville last year? >> well, you know, my experience in egypt has really informed a lot of my understanding of what's happening at home in the united states now. you really see that for a lot of people, identity is the crucial question in politics. and i imagi i think it's a lot of what's turning politics in the u.s. today. and president trump clearly appealed to a very strong and particularly ethnic notion of what it means to be an american. and so it's not surprising we see that manifesting itself. you also having covered egypt, get to understand what people mean when they say the deep state. there is a sort of bureaucratic apparatus that's a hardship to steer. and so we see that playing out. >> david, nice to see you. thank you very much. david kirk patrick. "into the hands of the soldiers" available now. up ahead in our next hour, we go back to washington to see how tensions are just hours before white nationalists are
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