tv MSNBC Live With Ayman Mohyeldin MSNBC August 19, 2018 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT
president trump launches another twitter tirade today comparing the investigation to mccarthyism and lashing out over the report with the white house attorney's cooperation with the special counsel. and not backing down. former cia director john brennan stands by his claims that president's behaviors have been treasonist and he may challenge trump's decision to revoke his clearance. we're going to start with donald trump and his team ramping up attacks against the russia investigation and stirring a little bit of political confusion. the president woke up this morning on another terror against the special counsel at one point calling it "mccarthyism at its worst" and writing off mueller as too conflicted to head the investigation. the latest tirade triggered by don mcgann has been cooperating extensively and meeting with
mueller's team for 30 hours going back to november. the personal attorney accused mueller's team of leaking the story in the entirety. giuliani also a surprising new reason for why the president should not testify before the special counsel. he explained. >> this whole mcgann thing leaked from them f they had some kind of evidence that there was collusion or there was obstruction, don't you think it would have been leaked? they leak everything else. i'm not going to be rushed into having them testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. when you tell me that he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, well that is silly. it is somebody's version of the truth, not the truth. he didn't have a conversation about -- >> i don't mean to go -- >> it isn't truth. truth isn't truth. >> joining me now to break this down, darlene superville, associated press white house report, daily beast white house reporter, rick wilson, republican strategist and author
of "everything trump touches dies," stephen cash, legal analyst and political km commentator for "the hill." we have a the lot of back and forth here from donald trump via his twitter account, but also john brennan taking meet the press. and we have rudy giuliani also who is on meet the press this morning. we played a little bit of what he said earlier. i guess we have to take the most obvious headline, him summarizing -- what many might say is happening for the last year and a half or. so the truth isn't the truth. >> well, that's an extraordinary statement and i don't even know where to begin to try to parse rudy giuliani on that. i think the trump white house version of the clinton version of the is line. what is your definition of is is? >> and that's what we're seeing so far. why don't we play that first so we can hear it again and get your reflection.
>> when you tell many he that, you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth, he shouldn't worry. twhal is silly. because it's somebody's version of the truth. not the truth. dent have a conversation -- >> truth is truth. i don't mean to go -- >> no, it isn't. truth isn't truth. the president of the united states says i didn't -- >> truth is a truth, mr. mayor. do you realize -- >> no. >> this is going to become a bad meme. >> don't do this to me. >> don't do truth isn't truth to me. >> donald trump says i didn't talk about flynn with comey. comey says you did talk about it. so tell me what the truth is. if you're such a genius, john mcgann doesn't know. if that's the situation. two pieces of evidence. and the other guy said he did say it. which is the truth? >>. >> what is he saying here? in terms of the truth isn't
truth, it's fun dwla trump's personal attorney should say. that because he himself practices that as if it were his modus operandi. i like many other reporters covering this administration speak to rudy giuliani on a semiregular basis. and i know from firsthand experience that he'll say different things to me that he says to other reporters. he'll say contradictory things. rudy giuliani's role in trump's legal circle is just as combative media spokesman as it is actual attorney. he'll say completely different things and various things and he'll sort of flood the zone with this trumpian competing narratives as if to muddy the waters either completely intentionally or unintentionally. >> and potentially to get reaction, right? and then i'll just share what james comey, former fbi director said in response to rudy giuliani. he tweeted saying truth exists.
truth matters. truth is always been the touch stone of our country's justice system. and political life. people who life are held accountable. if we're untethered to truth, the justice system cannot function and society based on the rule of law dissolved. so, wendy, the former director staying in the conversation here. >> yeah. he continues to stay in the conversation but i think it's about the american people continuing to hold this white house accountable. they continue to do these things where they don't smoke and mirrors to make it seem like we don't understand what is going on. this white house does not operate based upon truth. they operate based on upon their own false narrative. what we see going on is this notion of self-preservation. it has become a corner stone of this administration. everyone see this is as a sinking ship and they're trying to save themselves before the boat completely goes under the water. even rudy giuliani saying truth is truth and it depends on whose truth it is. like you cannot be serious.
the american people know what the truth is. and, again, we have to continue to hold their feet to the fire. hold them accountable. >> steve, wendy brought this up. don mcgann and we thought there was gob discussion between mcgann and the mueller team. it is the extent that surprised most watchers. you've seen the numbers here, nine months, three interviews according to the reporting. 30 hours as well. the question now is how much exposure here does this administration face to the investigation based on what we learned from that article? the 30 hours does sound like a lot of time. the truth is the truth. but the truth is hard. and when investigators are trying to get at the truth, it's a painstaking difficult process. the mueller investigation is characterized by a carefulness
and a detail orientation that is sometimes is boring and it seems to take a long time. but that's how you get the truth. >> it's the consistency of the truth or the lack there of, is it not? if you're a prosecutor? >> absolutely. and what you're looking for are different sources of information to be able to compare them, different witnesses. that's why when the mayor says well you have one person say one thing and you have another person say another thing and therefore can you not have truth. that's against everything prosecutors believe in. and, in fact our justice system as justice comey pointed out believe n and the other two institutions that are at issue are intelligence services and our immediamedia, journalists. truth can be sought after and found. >> and should be. and given context along the way. rick wilson, one of your fellow gop strategists was saying how the white house may not have been prepared for what came out
with the omarosa claims and tapes that were played so far. that might also be applied to what we're learning right now in the don mcgann relationship with the mueller investigation. they knew potentially there was going to be open, right? that was the strategy coming from john dowd. maybe they didn't know to what extent we were just describing that don mcgann was speaking with mueller and that might have surprised them. he threw cabinet member and friend after friend under the bus. he has no loyalty to anyone. if he is doing this out of self-preservation, i think that's a sign he understands just how corrupt and how broken this white house is and i have to contradict my old boss rudy giuliani when i say that it is not the special counsel's office leaking. they have been as silent as the
tomb. they are not talking to reporters. they are not leaking. they're not putting things out there. on the obstruction side of this equation which, you know, mcgann obviously is a bright man who values his future. so he's going sto escape from the -- to escape from the radiation area. >> rick, you're talking about the conversation that rudy giuliani had on meet the press and he said this is the mueller team. that is leaking the information for the "new york times" report. you are saying that mcgann and trum trump they don't speak very often which is consistent with the "new york times" as well. >> absolutely. my boss and i at the daily beat
reported back in may that people both within and without -- both within and outside of the white house are familiar with the situation were telling us that trump and his counsel, his white house counsel are barely on speaking terms anymore. part of that has to do with their sort of clashing personalities. the two of them have never really been in a sort of buddy buddy shoot the breeze situation. it sort of required for a top adviser within trump to stay close within trump's inner circle. the other reason which i think is more salient has to do with the mueller probe. "the new york times" broke a story that mcgann had threatened to resign after trump had tried to order him or suggested at the very least for him to order the
sacking of robert mueller. mcgann essentially said if you do that, i'm on my way out of the white house. so the president dropped it. after that broke in the "new york times," he tried to get him to put out a public statement knocking down "the new york times" story. according to our sources this led to the president privately fuming wondering allowed if mcgann himself had been a leak that led to that original "new york times" story. so the fact that trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani is blame being team mueller is ironic. >> again, the former lead attorney saying that "new york times" report was fiction it appears based on your reporting that is not the case. darlene, just to get everything on the record. there is so much to get on the record so far. the accusation mccarthyism against mueller from the president. well, that's just another example of the president. you've seen him all week
tweeting about the investigation trying to undercut the special counsel robert mueller. he had a lot of tweets early this week about bruce orr, a justice department official. this is the individual the president said day or two ago that he may revoke his security clearance there are tweets over the weekend about the rigged witch hunt and now today you have him talking about mccarthyism and trying to compare the investigation to mccarthyism. and it's just part of the continued effort about it president to sort of sully the investigation in the eyes of the public. the credibility of the investigation in the eyes of the public. >> that's the way we start the 5:00 hour here on east coast. up next, john brennan says he'll go to battle to save the security clearances of other top intelligence officials and he's not backing down on comments he made about the president having tre
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i called his behavior trees onnist. >> you're the former cia director akugz the president of the united states. it's no the a private citizen. a lot of people hear the former cia director accusing the sitting president of the united states of treason. that's -- that's a monumental accusation. >> i didn't mean he committed treason. but it was a term that i used nothing short of treasonist. >> you didn't mean he committed
treason though. >> that's -- if we diagram the sentence, nothing short of treasonist means it's treason. >> the former head of the cia downing on his statement. john brennan claiming the president's behavior with russia is treasonist. brennan felt plenty of support from the intelligence community since the security clearance was revoked. but do the president's actions speak louder than brennan's words and claims so far? let's bring in our panel. i handled cases involving security clearances. we have the national security correspondent for npr and legal analyst steve cash. malcolm, let's start with this. when you hear from the former cia director john brennan using
the word treasonist and you have seen the xrichlts on both sides, how do you fill in the blanks for folks? >> i understand what he's doing. we all know that treason is defined by the u.s. code is an act of aiding and abetting an and my in a time of war. we're not if a time of war. we're not at war with russia. congress hadn't declared a war. it is rhetorically. people believe there is a betrayal of the oath of office. he pretty clearly laid out why he thinks that. i think that's what he's doing. i think he was defining for people which should anything be found out in the mueller investigation based on the parameters of what we know, people are going to start using that word with great seriousness though it has no legal weight.
>> steve cash, you know mr. brennan. you dploektor brennan. >> i do. >> when you seen him speak on friday and then this morning on "meet the press," put in context to the comments he made so far about being treasonist. >> first of all, mr. brennan is an extremely serious man. he understands the words he used. he is an intelligence analyst. i think he explained himself very carefully. he described the behavior as trees onnist, having the aspects of treason. wasn't making a legal argument. he's not a lawyer. wasn't delivering an indictment. that's said, when john brennan speaks and michael hayden speaks and others speak, these are serious, serious people who have been in this system and have worked for presidents of parties for a long time. they should be listened to. what they know of which they
speak. i think it's important they understand they're using words very, very carefully. >> very carefully. then on the flip side, those critical of what director brennan has been saying so far, why are you in the media, why are you expressing your ideas that typically, historically, traditionally you've not heard from form dreshgtors of intelligence here. so the question may be, that is a reason why potentially that security clearance does need to be put in question. >> i absolutely agree. we've not seen anything like this before from former leaders. we may have to go to ramsey clark for somebody who was as vocal subsequent. but under security clearance guidelines, the guidelines issued by the white house, there is no guideline that pertains to this type of behavior.
it doesn't give the agency any right to revoke your clearance. the only thang ing that is the closest is violent overthrow of the u.s. government. the president could easily and would have been better if he had had terminated administratively john brennan's clearance by saying he no long her a need to know any information. but to revoke it is an entirely different situation. >> and then the commentary there after made from the white house. i want to get your perspective on this. en that is general michael hayden talking about how what has happened so far in the last several days has made it potentially more difficult for folks to do their job. let's take a listen to what the general had to say. >> we're trying to say to our workforce, we have nothing to do with john brennan says on tv and we have nothing to do with what
the president has done in response. we have to be harder and harder each day as the administration takes these kinds of actions. >> this is your beat, my friend. does it make it more tough for these folks here? >> well, it certainly does in the sense that the president keeps attacking individuals and institutions that are seen as nonpartisan, that are supposed to play it straight. federal judges, fbi, justice department and cia and intelligence community. these are institutions that we look to to give us a straight answers not to be partisan. the president is making very partisan or trying to say they're against me. they have to go in anticipate brief him most mornings after he's just made these criticisms the brennan and michael hayden and others. so it certainly makes things awkward. i think they're very professional people and will do
what they know how to do. it does add an element of awkwardness to it. >> talking about professional, esteemed, public servants. malcolm nance, how might this affect what you do day to day with this swirling around above you? >> i say this on television often. there are hundreds of intelligence watch officers right now that have to stand in eight hour watch and have this program on. and they are listening to this debate. even when they're working at their work stations. it's going through their ears. they have to work in an impeerical world without partisanship. they have to deliver, manufacture, and process product to go to the national intelligence consumers of this country. it's going have an effect on them in the long term. it absolutely will. >> mark, what should happen next then? should brennan speak out more?
should other former directors speak out? we, of course, have seen the letters and the numerous individuals who signed up supporting the criticism of what the president has done. what is the fix if there is one here? >> that's a really good question. air numb . >> -- a number of them are clients of mine. i think there is a problem when you have current leaders speaking out against a president regardless of right or wrong. does it create an issue. we'll have a precedent going forward. then that said, to take such an action as the president did, what i most concerned about is where is the line? where does it stop. you know, at any given time about a third to half of those who hold security clearances are in a party politically that are in opposition to the president of the united states. any president of the united states. is there going to be a litmus test? you can't be a democrat who holds a clearance if you're in a republican administration or
vice versa? that's where this slippery slope starts to go down this line as to why we're concerned about it. now again, brennan is entitled to due process unless the president takes it away from him. we haven't heard any word about whether he'll have any type of ability to challenge. but that should be the next step at least follow the process. the end may never change. it man a right without a remedy. we need to be a country of law and due process. >> greg? 15 seconds. >> this is an on going debate. the former intelligence people are speaking out. but how far should they go? should they stop at analysis or should they take a direct kr criticism of the president? >> steve, he sticks around. malcolm and greg and mark, thank you all. paul manafort's fate now in the hands of jurors who will resume deliberations bright and early tomorrow. could the president's recent comments about his former campaign manager influence the outcome of the case? we'll be right back.
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told mueller's team. now this is a sunday headline that just dropped within the last couple of hours. this as a fall on to yesterday's article that came out also from "the new york times." also haberman and schmitt this about how the white house counsel don mcgahn had met extensively with the mueller team. he sat with them for some 30 hours and over the last nine months and sat with him specifically three times. today's new article that just came down which in a case that has gotten so many headlines is a big deal if you will only because that the personal lawyers of the president were unaware that they realize that don mcgahn, the chief white house or presidential lawyer had been speaking and they didn't
know how much he was telling them. let's bring in nbc's charlie guile who joins us. he's been covering the manafort case at the courthouse and back with us, stephen cash. this just coming down. we've been talking about this. they're breaking news that came out yesterday. there is this open approach that john dowd put out earlier on in the investigation. that then we had so many hours and so many meetings and now we're hearing from the very same reporters, guess what? the president's personal lawyers don't even know what was said. >> that sounds about right and given rudy giuliani's performance this morning during the sunday talk shows, it doesn't seem all that surprising, athe least on its face. but in terms of mcgahn having sat with team mueller and given
all of this information, some of it wouldn't have known otherwise. i don't think is entirely shocking what we already knew about don mcgahn. yes, he is the white house attorney. he's not trump's personal attorney by any means. he's white house counsel. he has already shown in previous instances an unwillingness to go out and publicly lie on behalf of president trump. we saw that in regards to the reaction that trum health care plan -- trump had ordered to him or suggested he should ordering the sacking of robert mueller. team mueller has wanted to talk to don mcgahn as one of the top, top people in the priorities list. it's not all that surprising that once they got him a room that he would be for sake of a lesser term or better term, a straight shooter on this. >> it is surprising. the white house according to this reporting, steve cash with
us now. legal experts say the president's lawyers have been careless in not asking mr. mcgahn the presidential lawyer what he had planned to tell mr. mueller's prosecutors. they moved forward. the article goes on later to say here, the very reporting that came out yesterday, steve, set off a scramble on saturday morning with mr. trump's lawyers and advisors. the president sequestered at his private golf club and solicited opinions from a small group of advisors on the possible reprecushions of the article. so, steve, again, exactly what might be the worst case scenario for this white house, to are this president more specifically. seems to be playing out in this reporting. >> yeah. i can't tell from this, obviously. i don't know what extent the white house was surprised. but what is important here, you said it at the very beginning,
he's not the president's lawyer. he's the white house's lawyer. he represents the institution ofof the presidency. if you're surprised that someone like this ends up representing the institution as he should, it's unfortunate you could be surprised. i'm dispinltappointed that anyo surprised. >> rudy giuliani said, yes, that's what we want him to do. that's the first step. second step in fro sprocess mig, what is the personal lawyer there, won the second step then be what do you plan on then discussing with the mueller team? >> well, i think if i were the president's personal lawyer and i had that discussion with mr. mcgahn beforehand, i would hope i am very careful not toint fear with an on going investigation. i'm not going to put myself in the president's personal lawyers shoes. but i would be very careful there. it certainly doesn't hurt to
ask. in it's true they sort of forgot to ask, that would be careless. that is not good lawyering. but on the other hand, when people go in to speak to an investigator, if the system is working the way it's supposed to be, you're not supposed to be able to manipulate that system. you're not supposed to be able to get an inside glance at what the investigators are doing. this may be an example of the system working the way it's supposed to be. again, i'm saddened that people are surprised by that. that's a theme that we've talked about throughout the evening today. there are institutions. they work. the press works. the "boston globe" put out the editorial, the intelligence community works. they push back on the clearances. here we see the white house counsel doing what the white house counsel should do. lawful investigation. >> so as i mentioned here to steve and you know so well because this is your beat, in the reporting of this very article, it has been that the president that his current personal lawyer and john dowd
before had wanted to allow this sort of back and forth with mcgahn. what we're learning is the extent, at least from haberman and schmitt so far and why this might be of great headline is because of how mcgahn is at the heart of many, many issues related to obstruction of justice. one of which would be, again, the firing of mr. mueller or the attempt last summer and the discussion thereof. and the discussion that's are maybe only privy to don mcgahn. >> right. and the president not very many hours ago tweeted pretty aggressively that oh, "the new york times" is trying to paint don mcgahn as a rat. or a snitch, however you want to phrase or paraphrase it. in this on going trump
russia-related probe. and the president on twitter essentially implying that that's not the case. and i let my guys do this and sit for team mueller. this is all fake news, et cetera, et cetera. i just want to point out to viewers that president took a similar tone on twitter when the post michael cohen raid news came out and he started rage tweeting about michael cohen. oh, michael cohen is a good guy. i love him. he loves me. and he would, of course, never flip on me. obviously we know that this situation with the relationship between president trump and michael cohen has significantly cratered in the time since. now i'm not saying that that's necessarily what's going to happen between the president and don mcgahn. i think comparisons between john dean and don mcgahn are significantly jumping the gun at the very best right now. but it does say something towards the president's predictive factors in this on
going investigation. >> it is sometimes like watching a hertz wave, no doubt. stick around. up next, we're going to get to what we were going to talk about earlier, paul manafort. again, following this breaking news out of "the new york times." sudden realization they don't know what don mcgahn told mueller's team. we'll have more on that and other stories after this. ♪
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stop. back up again. is this adequate sunlight for a komodo dragon? -yeah. -sure, i want that discount on car insurance just for owning a home, but i'm not compromising. -you're taking a shower? -water pressure's crucial, scott! it's like they say -- location, location, koi pond. -they don't say that. it is day three of jury deliberations in paul manafort's
trial. that begins tomorrow morning early. and the defense remains very optimistic about their chances. >> is there a deliberation in favor? >> i think it does. >> what is the reaction today? >> we're happy to hear from the president. >> we're following this in the court. you'll be writing about this for years to come, charlie. what happened on friday? we know it was a very strange. 5:00 they're like we're going to stop working here the jurors said. >> well, yeah. sometimes jury deliberations need to be ended for social engagements clearly. the jury has been deliberating for 15 hours. right now it seems like they're really taking the time and care this case deserves to really dissect every single count what the government has to prove. you no he what? we know they're not sequestered and that is the back and forth
we had. >> they're not sequestered. the reason nofor that is nobody really knows. throughout the trial you might end up in an elevator with a juror. might end up in the lunch line with a juror. >> you have been? >> yeah. i think that's what judge ellis told us to do. >> what is the sense of the energy? >> some of them are going about this pretty casually. you'll see them two or three of them come oun and take smoke breaks in the plaza where our cameras are. we don't know if they're working through lunch or not. judge ellis gave them that option. but, yeah, they decided they want to come back and extend this thing into this next week. >> you know, you get asked this all the time whether it's on air or from fellow colleagues off air. is what's going to happen this week, what happens tomorrow morning when they regather? are we going to get a verdict? >> nobody really knows.
like i said, they've been deliberating for almost 15 hours. i don't think that we'll need another 30 plus hours of deliberation. what i can say is that we'll probably get a verdict this week. it may not be tomorrow. i would imagine that we get one. and as far as what the outcome is going to be, your guess is as good as mine. i think on some of the tax return charges, i think they signed tax returns. i think where they may be getting stuck is the bank fraud conspiracy charges. those are harder to prove. there hasn't been as much evidence as you might expect from the government on that. >> i only disagree with you on one point. your guess is better than mine because you have been in there. charlie guile, nbc's producer with all the insight to this case for us. thank you so much. we'll be talking to you throughout the week and more, no doubt. thank you. >> all right. thank you. it's no the just don mcgahn. omarosa admitted to talking to robert mueller and willing to share some of the secret recordings. more on her thoughts about her former boss coming up.
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not i do, absolutely. i have this vast historical knowledge and relationship with donald trump 15 years and i've been very good about documenting the evolution of that relationship which is what i put in relationship which is what i put in my book "unhinged." >> the white house is hitting back hard, characterizing her as a disgruntled exemployee and reportedly preparing for a counterattack against more potentially damaging recordings. back with us, darlene superville, rick wilson and wendy osefo. so darlene, she used the words 15 years. immediately you start to think of a couple of things. number one, she's certainly known donald trump the president now for many, many moons. but on top of that, you know, how far back does her recordings go that she claims she has? hundreds at the moment including video and sound. >> it is unclear how far back all of her recordings go. she refers to the material that she has in her possession as a
multimedia treasure trove. as you said it includes video recordings, audiotapes. e-mails. text messages. other sorts of documentation. she has known the president since 2003 when she first appeared on his reality tv show, the apprentice. there's a 15 year relationship there she can draw on or is drawing on for the claims in her book and the claims that she's making about the president. in her tv interviews as she continues this publicity tour for the book. but it's unclear how far back she started making recordings and doing all of the documentation she's now willing to produce. >> and what might be reflective of the very documentation she claims she has and it's not necessarily good is that she says everybody lies in trump world. let's play that. >> in trump world, everybody lies. i mean, it's a culture of deceit. people turn on each other very,
very quickly. and you have to have documentation for everything that you do. even trump. in the morning he may say one thing, by the afternoon he's flip-flopped. he's all over the place and so the question about whether or not i do, absolutely. i have this vast historical knowledge and relationship with donald trump 15 years and i have been very good about documenting the evolution of that relationship. >> you know, rick, one of my guests today said am i in the upside down? >> you know, we are. actually i wrote about trump staffing problems in my book. and basically, emerson once said that an institution is the shadow of one man. so donald trump has picked around chosen people around him like omarosa who reflect his -- both the reality tv world of his kooky, "the apprentice" life and the building and the casino
world so you end up with people like omarosa out here. you end up with people who are just as deceitful and small minded and petty and venal as donald trump is. unfortunately for him with omarosa, she's his -- you know, she's his luke. i mean, this is a person who is built by donald trump. he taught her all these tricks, so she's going to use all of the things she's got against him. she's going to drag this out as long as she can to keep her book sales up, keep herself in the eye of the press. she's going to drip, drip, drip this thing and it will be water torture for donald trump. he's reconsidering every conversation he had with her, every voice mail, e-mail, any moment he was alone with her in the room now he has to wonder, did she record when i said this, did she record when i said that, did i make a racially charged statement here or there? he has a lot to worry about with omarosa. it doesn't matter that she's
omarosa. it matters that she understands his game better than she does. >> to say what everybody is thinking, but maybe not saying or are saying, when she make such claims about veracity, wendy, it cuts both ways. >> it does cut both ways. i think that what omarosa is doing here is she's using trump's game against him. but what i want to underscore here it doesn't take omarosa or anyone in the white house to give us this information because when shows you who they are, you have to believe them. i know the big talk was whether or not donald trump is racist. you don't have to use the "n" word to be racist. racism is believing you're superior to one another, so you have no minorities in senior leadership in the white house. you believe that one race is predisposed to crime so you call mexicans rapists or using your power to marginlize a group. you know what, i'm going to treat my tenants bad and then they sue us. so yes, omarosa is saying a lot
of things. but for me and those individuals around me, this is all something that we already knew and we can really file this under things that i have known for years. >> on that very quickly here, omarosa claiming she stayed in the white house to protect the obama legacy. >> no, she's the same person who said we are all going to bow down to trump. who knew that trump was the chief architect of the birtherism and she worked for his administration. so no, omarosa is not invited to the cookout and she's telling us things we all knew years ago and that's why most of us did not vote for him in the 2016 campaign. thank you, omarosa for telling us this, but we have known these things. >> darlene, 30 seconds. >> well, what you see here is, you know, when she says that
everyone lies in washington, in trump world, she was part of trump world. and you have to ask yourself, is she lying too? >> rick, your thoughts, 15 seconds, please. >> there's nothing -- there's nothing that donald trump should be surprised by in terms of betrayal. he betrays everyone and they return the favor. >> all right. thank you for sticking within my time constraints. well done. go out and have a good sunday now and enjoy yourselves. thank you so much and that'll do it for us this week. you can reach out to me on social media. let me know what you think or you have ideas. i'm richard lui in for ayman mohyeldin. join kasie hunt at 7:00. but first, it's "meet the press." with two times more detail than any other dna test... you can connect more deeply to the places of your past.
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that calls into question his objectivity and credibility. >> and threatens to do the same to other former officials who have criticized him. >> security clearances for those who still have them may be revoked. >> even for a current department of justice official. >> i think bruce ohr is a disgrace. i suspect i will be taking it away quickly. >> brennan reacts. >> i think this is an egregious act that flies in the face of traditional practice as well as common sense as well as national security. >> says mr. trump is abusing the powe