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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  October 17, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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understatement. we don't even seem able to act >> many thanks to our hosts. in a sort of dignified way. if we're not going to act on what a terrific live audience. behalf of human rights and hey, west virginia 3, there's a decency, then act with a -- guy in an ojeda shirt out here. don't send the secretary of state over there to yuk it up tomorrow, meet the midterms road with the king of saudi arabia. trip takes us to vegas, baby. >> jason, as you know, there are we'll see you live from beer many, many stories where we park on the strip tomorrow, 2:00 report out the total quiet of p.m. local, 5:00 p.m. in the east. if you're in vegas and want to elected republican officials in join us live, please do. the face of things they long come early. first 50 people in the door get said they were against when the sweet swag that the first 50 donald trump does them. we're also fair and we report people here got, and it's really out what we find when we find good. you can drink a beer out of it. it. we did see, and i want to play we'll be back tomorrow with more several republican elected officials breaking with the trump administration over this. take a look. "mtp daily." >> where is the body? "the bea "the beat with ari melber" starts now. why wasn't the family notified? >> it looks like fun. we like your odds. why have they spent the better hello to everybody out there. part of eight or nine days saying they didn't know anything there are a lot of fast-moving about it? >> i think the saudis murdered him. >> this guy is a wrecking ball. stories tonight. donald trump signaling his own he had this guy murdered in a midterm jitters, aungs noing if koconsulate in turkey and expec republicans lose the house, it's not his fault. we have an update to a story me to ignore it, i feel used and we've been covering on "the abused. >> jason.
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beat," mueller getting new leads >> i mean i do declare, lindsey from michael cohen. trump now claiming cohen is graham feels used and abused again. here's the problem. lying under oath and why feds a lot of republicans will were meeting with him as criticize trump and they won't recently today. and then the one and only kareem do anything. they won't hold up any policy. abdul-jabbar is on "the beat" on they won't enact any changes. while they are still running the the 50th anniversary of his house and the is that, they will not do anything to really hold boycott of the mexico city olympics. we're going to talk activism in saudi arabia accountable. you have to remember this is a situation where you have several the trump era. our top story tonight is the bad actors. i mean we have turkey who they alleged execution that has had, you know, officials over here beating american protesters elevated into a foreign policy crisis for president trump. a year ago, and the president the alleged saudi kidnapping, didn't do anything about it. they have their own bad history with journalists. interrogation, and execution of so, you know, you have sort of a a u.s. resident, jamal feckless republican party that will complain. you have several bad actors who khashoggi, has now taken a turn. this is new today with donald have been emboldened by this trump going full double-down president. and what concerns me and what should concern any journalist or defense of the saudi arabia anybody who cares about american regime. that is of course amidst new democracy and decency and gruesome reports about what the honesty is this will not be the saudis allegedly to khashoggi. only time this happens. a warning before i go any i mean jamal khashoggi was a further. the account is disturbing. permanent resident, but this will end up happening to what experts say this is americans. this will end up happening to important. this is the context for the other countries who have mounting pressure within this journalist who's we're allied country and across the world on with because when the president of the united states has basically declared war on the the trump administration to press in the united states and
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address saudi arabia's alleged specific news outlets, other actions rather than cover for dictators will be perfectly it. so here are the details. comfortable in engaging in these a senior turkish official confirming that turkish media types of actiftss because they reports on information that "the know there's no consequence. new york times" has recounting >> both of you stay with me. audio recordings showing the on the diplomacy, we want to saudis severed khashoggi's turn to an expert we rely on, fingers during the interrogation while he was still alive. evelyn farkas, deputy assistant this taking place within the soud consulate in istanbul defense secretary. before we get to what's wrong according to the reports. with this, being familiar with then they beheaded and some of your analysis, i think you might echo some of what dismembered him. and as they did it, a doctor of we've heard on the morality. i wonder if you could walk us forensics who was part of the through at a geostrategic level, why is saudi arabia considered team told the others to listen to music to ease the tension in so important to the u.s.? that room. saudi officials still deny >> well, ari, saudi arabia has involvement. nine of the 15 suspects, though, always been important to the have history working with the united states because, of saudi government, including the course, historically we've gotten the bulk of our oil from man in this photo here who frequently traveled with the saudi arabia, not just us but of crown prince. he was in houston this year as you can see. course our allies. donald trump is certainly not so it was important to have a good relationship with saudi the first u.s. president to arabia. they helped us regulate the price, especially when supply coddle saudi arabia despite actions against u.s. interests and values. george w. bush was classifying fluctuated. they've been helpful to us in the context of dealing with portions of the 9/11 report that russia and other oil suppliers. investigated the financial ties
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between the saudi regime and however, many people point out those hijackers, or take the they did put the squeeze on oil prices. obama administration. they put them low, which hurt they didn't let their public our shale oil production. criticism of saudi policy prevent the largest weapons so it's a double-edged sword sales by the u.s. to that with the saudis. country on record. we have come to rely on them but donald trump is going way supposedly for counterterrorism further now, comparing this help although of course if you alleged torture and murder in look at 9/11, all the perpetrators of that and obama the embassy to his own american bin laden himself was saudi. the wahhabi branch of islam is supreme court pick. look at this, brand-new. quote, you know, here we go coming from saudi arabia, so the saudi government over the years again. you're guilty until proven innocent. has essentially allowed their i don't like that. we just went through that with justice kavanaugh, and he was clerics to spread a very fundamental version of islam innocent all the way. worldwide, which has caused trump also casting doubt on problems for the world. reports of the audio evidence of this current crown prince, who this killing. is ruling essentially while his >> why not send the fbi in to figure all this out? father was still on the throne, >> well, he wasn't a citizen of this country for one thing, and but essentially running saudi arabia said he was going to we're going to determine that. and you don't know whether or reform that, and we like that. not we have, do you? but the reality is that saudi >> well, i -- >> no, but do you know whether arabia is a little less important -- should have been or not we've sent the fbi? less important to us today. >> have you sent the fbi? and so just to wrap up, under >> i'm not going to tell you. >> did you ask for this the trump administration, it became more important. saudi arabia became more audio/video intelligence? important because the trump
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>> we have asked for it if it administration said in the geostrategic context of the exists. >> trump fanning the flames of a middle east, we are going to throw our weight towards saudi conspiracy theory there. arabia because we hate iran that much, and the two countries are his secretary of state was far more blunt. when it comes to this alleged at loggerheads. they're rivals. torture and murder, he said it has to do with religion and straight up the trump administration doesn't really geopolitics. so we threw our lot in too want to discuss the facts. heavily with saudi arabia. it's better for the united >> they say that mr. khashoggi states not to do that, to be is alive or dead? more of a balancer, if you will, >> i don't want to talk about if the region, i think, writ any of the facts. they didn't want to either and that they want to have the large. the only ally we have this opportunity to complete this investigation in a thorough way. israel there, hard fast in the >> kicking off our coverage, middle east. so we made a calculated mistake, bill kristol and jason johnson and this guy, the crown prince, was frankly speaking unreliable. from the and what he has done makes it bill, when you look at this clear that we should not be response, as i mentioned, not working with saudi arabia as closely as we have thus far so the first time the u.s. has long as he remains the heir given the saudis a pass on things that are very apparent and running the country. objectionable. but this does seem of another >> so listening to your very order. sobering briefing on the history >> oh, yeah. makes one question how this sending the secretary of state president makes big decisions. there almost as a supplicant. i mean so much of what he does he's yukking it up with the king and the crown prince and the gets attention for the ways that
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it breaks norms, that is state department spokeswoman is depressing, that is outrageous, putting it on instagram, i think the insults. it was, photos of herself as a but here we are dealing with kind of happy tourist in saudi something at a far greater level, which listening to you arabia. i mean it's terrible. i mean what's happened is really makes quite clear. does donald trump in your view awful. it requires a serious response have any method for reassessing in my judgment. this bet? you're saying they put a big bet a serious administration would down on saudi arabia instead of be having meetings about iran. different grades of response, obama famously was trying to not trying to deflect. warm relations with iran and trump is part of the saudi going in a little bit of a different direction. cover-up at this point and is there any reassessment? how many people, to put it they're -- >> you would go that far. bluntly, have to be tortured and you think he is an active part killed in extra judicial of this cover-up? >> i say he's an active part of killings before the administration says, gosh, these trying to figure out how to guys are drunk with power, we minimize any damage to need to check them more? u.s./saudi relations. how little can the saudis admit >> the problem is fundamental at and get away with it? can they blame junior officials? the highest level, not the cabinet but the president. i mean he's laying the groundwork for the most minimal he doesn't understand the value of essentially values. kind of concessions by the saudis, and then i think for the he doesn't understand that you can gain power and influence by most minimal actions by the u.s. standing up for human rights, by having a firm policy against some people want to make a policy case, about this is awful extra-territorial killings of what has happened, but we have journalists because, again, as national interests at stake, et jamal, i believe, said, you
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cetera, et cetera, and let's know, this is going to happen in have a policy debate. but that's not what trump is another country, you know, doing. trump is just trying to muddy another autocrat is going to the waters enough. kill another journalist because it's very much like what he does the united states is not with mueller and domestic policy standing up for the principle. so that he doesn't have to do and the rest of the world will much because he doesn't want to notice and we will lose do anything. influence and power. he really doesn't want to do >> and the rest of the world anything, i don't think, in will hear the power, authority, return for this ghastly murder. they lured him to the consulate and leadership of the united states siding with what look there, murder this man in the most gruesome way, and trump increasingly like blatant lies. and i don't use that word every doesn't want to do anything about it. >> right. nights. and to state the obvious, bill, i use that when we could prove although that's part of our job it. i want to play for your these days, there is nothing analysis, jason, how the president sided with putin's tough in foreign policy or the lies and now with what really world stage about letting look like saudi arabian lies. another country get away with, first the putin denial. as you put it, the gruesome take a look. murder of a u.s. resident and >> i think that the united states has been foolish. journalist. >> right. i have president putin. and a leading dissident in that country, in a place that's he just said it's not russia. allegedly liberalizing. i will say this. i don't see any reason why it of course it's similar to his would be. attitudes towardsn president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. the king firmly denied any knowledge of it. he didn't really know.
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maybe -- i don't want to get knew his mind, but it sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers. who knows? >> jason. >> yeah, because 15 rogue killers came in a saudi plain a -- plane and manages to get into the embassy. what this speaks to is the president is completely in the pocket of any other dictators in the world because he admires their ability to basically kill or tacitly allow the death of anybody who criticizes them. i don't think the president ever got on the phone with anybody in saudi arabia. i don't think he read any sort of nsa analysis to come to that decision. he basically said, i don't care. it was a brown journalist. he's not an american, and i'm perfectly happy with our relationship with turkey, and i'm perfectly happy with our relationship with saudi arabia. >> i just want to be clear about what you're saying. you think it might have been different if it was a different person? >> oh, yes. yes. i think there is a possibility. look, i'm not going to name any particular news networks, but i
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suspect if this was someone who was an american who was born here, of a different color, and perhaps representing a news outlet that the president was more happy with, he may have a very different opinion about how serious this is and whether or not saudi arabia should be held accountable. >> i want to be clear on the one hand you're making a hypothetical, right? but on the other hand, as you and other experts have pointed out, we are talking about a president who degrades and attacks journalists in the most extreme ways and talks about them as a, quote, unquote, enemy of the people inside our very country. and here we are dealing with the execution of someone affiliated with one of those outlets, "the washington post." >> exactly, exactly. i don't think it president -- again, he clearly is not a fan of journalism. he is not a fan of journalists in the united states, and he's not going to do anything about this. and here's, i think, a bigger issue we have to remember about this. journalists come to america just like scholars, just like businesspeople because they think this country will protect them, because they think we're
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the lands of the free. there will be journalists, investigators around the world who won't come here now because they see how this president allowed this to transpire. >> i think it's an important point to consider. >> he also wasn't just a journalist. he was a dissent. trump has no sympathy with dw dissidents and that's terrible, i think. he's on the side of the dictators against the dissidents. >> and he's someone who has that history which makes him different than an independent reporter, but as jason was saying, taking the protection that the united states affords people to speak their mind, the first amendment. my thanks to everyone on the panel. bill, jason, and evelyn. coming up, new developments. michael cohen talking with the feds today as trump claims his lawyer fixer was actually only involved in p.r. donny deutsch joins us on that. and later, why beto o'rourke
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came out swinging against ted cruz. >> senator cruz is not going to be honest with you. he's dishonest. it's why the president called him lying teds, and it's why the nickname stuck. and later obama jumping back into the 34ermidterms, talking young voters. >> elections by the way aren't boring. you know what's boring? scrolling through endless -- >> and later, my special interview tonight with a man who embodying the role of the athlete acvisit. kareem abdul-jabbar is here to talk justice and sports in the trump era. we've got a big show. i'm ari melber, and we'll be right back. back
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i'm trying to do some homework here. so they're ready for anything. 20 days is a lifetime in politics. we all know that. but donald trump did spriek a pretty pessimistic tone about his party's chances in the upcoming midterms saying if republicans lose the house, that's on them, and it's not a referendum on his presidency. if trump thought republicans would win, he would be happy to claim credit. so the new spin does tell you where his head is at. that doesn't mean trump's prediction's correct any more than all the other political and polling predictions that have turned out. but look at, this a gop document leaking tonight showing their own operatives say the election does boil down to how voters feel about trump. my next guests.
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christine greer, a political science professor at fordham and a friend of "the beat." i want you to listen to how donald trump's spin shows he is backing off attempts to trumpify the midterms. >> a vote for marsha is really a vote for me and everything that we stand for. i vote for cindy is a vote for me. a vote for steve is a vote for me. a vote for david is a vote for me and our agenda to make america great again. >> changing his tune. >> yes. well, i think this is fascinating just because trump has never represented the republican party in his mind. trump represents trump. and so even though we've had unified government for the past almost two years, that's a republican senate, republican congress and a republican presidency, at the end of the day, the only person trump really cares about is himself. so he's saying if you all don't win, that's actually not my
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problem. and so now we're going to saturday seeing some republicans in particular districts saying, well, actually, it is our problem. aren't we a collective? and that's not how trump views his presidency. that's not how he views the party either. >> i think he's actually both right and wrong. so he's wrong in the sense that, you know, many, many voters who are mobilized and enthusiastic see him and the republican party as one and the same. he's tied to the party, but where he is right is that voters who are going to turn out and probably shift the politics in the house in particular in terms of the democrats, they're not turning out as just some knee-jerk reaction to him. they're turning out around an affirmative vision around health care, around immigration, around criminal justice reform. so it's not just some knee jerk -- kavanaugh as well by the way. it's not just some knee-jerk reaction to trump himself. it is a wholesale rejection of the vision and from where we see
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voters that are most enthusiastic, they are moved by what they can vote affirmatively for in terms of an agenda that will change their lives. >> what does it tell you there is this weird pre-spin, that he is of the working assumption they're going to lose seat if not the whole house? >> this is what he's best at is the pre-spin to make everybody else respond to him and respond to the message. so it's actually what he's -- he is a showman, right? he's actually gamed it out a little bit, like how can i win either way. >> i'm sure he's getting data about how bad it looks in so many states and the high probability he'll lose the house. >> remember, he did this right before the election when almost everyone in the country thought that he would lose, right? he was already planting the seeds of this is a corrupt, illegitimate election. there's been widespread fraud. you know, everything is turned against me. so he was already putting that out there. >> you make a great point doing a throwback, which is that he
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was talking that trash going into the election day, which may have messed with people and thrown people off their game, and then they did win the electoral college. >> which i don't think he was prepared for, or many people in his orbit. >> you don't think donald trump was prepared to become president? >> no, i don't think. >> i didn't know you felt that way. >> i think in this moment he's sort of planting the seeds because just in case it is a shellacking as we saw in 2010 as obama called it, he'll be totally embarrasses and as dorian said, it will be a mandate that so many millions of americans are saying i reject these racist, anti-semitic, anti-immigrant sentiments that you have been putting out across the country. he does not want to sort of have to face that. so he can say, you know, i already thought we were going to lose. >> he doesn't want to face it, but republicans are on the same page. we showed the leak document that they say it's about him. his own white house adviser in exil midterms are all about trump. >> this up
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referendum on him. he permeates the entire political culture. i think the opposition party media and the democrats succeed in one thing. i think they did get a do-over to 2016, and i think this is his first re-election. >> i never thought i'd agree with steve bannon, but on this point he's absolutely right. he said trump infuses -- >> permeates the culture. >> absolutely right. this is a referendum on him, but he didn't go far enough. it's a referendum on him and president entire republican party and their governing agenda. that's what the referendum is. >> and that's what apparently republicans say now would be a bad thing, which is pretty interesting. my thanks to dorian warren and christina greer for coming to "the beat." ahead, in 30 seconds, michael cohen meeting with the feds today. one of cohen's longtime friends is here when we're back in 30. and 25% less saturated fat? only eggland's best. better taste, better nutrition, better eggs.
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federal prosecutors met today with former lawyer michael cohen again, which adds to the 50 hours he's spent with them already, and that apparently has donald trump nervous. the president going out of his way to accuse cohen of lying under oath when he said trump directed him to pay stormy daniels. now, this is actually a telling attack because with other people cooperating with the feds, trump has distanced himself saying someone is a coffee boy or he barely knows paul manafort. but trump thinks cohen apparently knows enough that the content of his testimony must be discredited. trump also suggesting the man that he credited as a lawyer for over a decade is now a p.r. person who only did small legal work.
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now, cohen did do p.r. for trump, but note that his guilty plea wasn't about p.r. it was about the legal work negotiating that gag order contract for stormy daniels, which cohen paid for in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for office, which we know was donald trump. and he admitted he was the david used in that contract and admitted he made the payments. >> did you know about the payments? >> later on i knew. later on. did they come out of the campaign? they didn't come out of the campaign. they came from me. >> or take another lawyer who does legal and p.r. work for trump admitting the same thing. >> that was money that was paid by -- by his lawyer. the president reimbursed that over a period of several months. >> donny deutsch is a friend of michael cohen's and an msnbc contributor. thanks for being here. >> what happened to rudy giuliani by the way? where did he go? >> what do you mean? >> he just disappeared. >> you mean why is he not on television? >> he's nowhere. >> i think they're using the pre-election quiet period to
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keep rudy quiet. >> good to see you. >> good to see you. you've spoken to michael cohen, and you've spoken about this on air. he's back with the feds today. >> uh-huh. >> what do you see as the important part of this story? >> the important part of this story is that donald trump is frighten frightened, and that's obvious. there's something that donald trump may have forgotten about. there's an actual audiotape of him really telling michael what to do, directing michael. but this is donald trump, the sky is not blue. it's green. there's no reality to realness. michael is very clear on where he is right now. michael wants to be on the right side of history. michael is doing everything he can to help the mueller investigation. what is also an outright lie, because i dealt with trump, the trump organization, michael for ten years through business, through television. michael was donald's right-hand man. >> sure. >> other than his three children and probably more so than eric because eric was much younger, there was never an interaction i had with donald about anything where michael was not involves. michael was his adviser. so to say he was his p.r. man is
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an out and out lie. donald understands that right now -- and i do not know this, but he is in there probably corroborating every serious issue because michael was there front and center. and so at this point donald needs to do everything he can to discredit him, but it doesn't matter. facts are facts. tapes are tapes. this is just lie number 4,740 for the president. >> it's good you have a count off the top of your head. did michael cohen go to prague for trump? >> no. by the way, he has said no. i have to believe that. they've looked at it every which way. i am not, you know, with michael all the time. but what michael has told me and everybody else -- >> you just went from sounding like a tv guest to that you're in a deposition. he has said. that's my understanding of the -- >> my understanding -- you know, i don't believe he did. he says he hasn't. >> let me put it this way, and i'm not giviing you a hard time. i wouldn't do that. do you think that michael cohen
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knows things that relate to alleged collusion? >> yes. yes. i think that it would be hard for michael to be in the position he's in and not understand -- you know, i think -- look, donald trump knows what michael cohen did, where he was, how he knew. so that's why he's frightfright. soo so i believe if there was collusion, i think michael would know about t. he's spending a lot of time with mueller and in a very cooperating way. so i do not know this from michael, but i would be shocked if at the end of the day we are not looking at both obstruction of justice and collusion from 40 different angles and i'm sure michael is in a position to help out if that's the case. >> which is interesting kcoming from you given the unique perch you have. you should know if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind talking to former federal prosecutor dan goldman who is -- >> i'm on the other side of this table. >> you're free to leave at any time. >> i was nowhere near the bar
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that night. >> what questions are on your mind for michael cohen or donny? >> well, i think there are a lot of questions for michael cohen and what's interesting is what we learned today, that it sounds like it was the southern district of new york prosecutors who are meeting with michael cohen. and what seems to be happening here is that cohen is splitting time. he's spending a fair amount of time with bob mueller and going through the collusion and maybe some of the obstruction of justice, and maybe more because there's a lot that occurred that michael cohen was involved with after the election. but then he's also spending time with the southern district of new york, which is not going to be involved in the collusion aspect, but may very well be involved in exactly what donny was talking about. michael's role as sort of a consigliere for the trump organization. and you can bet that the prosecutors in the southern district are downloading michael cohen about everything that he knows about everything nefarious related to the trump
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organization. he does not have a cooperation agreement although that could follow. he pled guilty just straight up to the crimes that he was charged with, including as you mentions the stormy daniels and the karen mcdougal payments. but he is cooperating about all sorts of other things. he may ultimately have to plead guilty to more crimes if he was involved in more. he may not. but regardless, this cooperation, this meeting, this providing evidence will be helpful to reduce his sentence regardless of whether he gets an agreement or not. >> another question just about michael's state of mind is he's publicly now embraced the democratic party going into the midterms. is that really the best idea? wouldn't it be better for him to just back off all politics and say he's going to be factual and leave it at that. >> let me answer it two ways. the literal way, it's probably best. this is a guy that every day is getting punched and can't really punch back, you know. and it's just, i think, an emotional way of him saying, you
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know what, i'm not on that side. i may have started out there. >> is he trying to say he basically does not think donald trump belongs in office and -- >> he is absolutely -- look, a lot of country feels wronged. he probably feels more wronged than anybody because he was loyal to this man for a long time. he feels violated. he feels the country has been violated. he wants to make a statement that beyond doing what he feels is right for him and his family, he wants to see this country in a different place. >> so what does it say to you that the man who spent, as you put it, this much time doing everything with donald trump, knows him so well, knows him behind the scenes thinks it's imperative to get him out of the white house? >> he has seen a transition. i remember a real turning point for him was after the helsinki meeting. he always knew donald was a certain kind of guy but he was very loyal to him. he has seen a very different guy in the last 18 months. in the beginning, i said michael, how could you be lawyer to him? he said, this is not the same
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guy. this is a different guy. i don't think he thought he was working for a choir boy, but he's seen a morphing into a different character. >> as dan goeldsman will tell you, you don't have to stay and that's what makes sure you're on the wrong side of a custodial interrogation, but i'd love for you to come back and talk about ads? how do you feel about the custodial interrogation joke? >> i feel it was very good, and i feel three viewers got it. but i'm with you. >> the fact that you thought it was good and that it was silent what a low bar we have for humor. my thanks to both of you. donny, i'll see you in a minute. up ahead, these midterm ads you've got to see including barack obama weighing in. >> you remember those hearings were members of congress were asking mark zubz questions like thads never ued the internet before? that's because they haven't. here's your chance to vote for people who actually know what the internet is. >> and later nba legend and
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activist kareem abdul-jabbar. i'm very excited to have him here on "the beat" for the first time. and christened me on rock, so i got tougher. they fostered a love of learning, so i got smarter. taught me to appreciate the finer things in life, so i became more civilized and refined. thank you, freedom and adventure, for giving me this rugged, civilized, wandering soul. for giving me this rugged, civilized, flood, and rain primarily be a wind, ♪ how many people are in the car? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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athletes make tough opponents for politicians as donald trump has been learning and advocating civil rights in the field, it was tommy smith and john carlos raised their fist at the mexico city olympics to put the mistreatment of black americans in front of the whole world. my next guest continues that tradition, kareem abdul-jabbar. in a new essay today, he recounts skipping those olympics as a protest, teaming up with muhammud ali and others to advocate an end to the vietnam war. many of today's athletes cite his example and continue the math. you have lebron james wearing the "i can't breathe" t-shirt which drew attention to the police strangling an unarmed man in new york, or of course colin kaepernick who ignited a debate over his protests of kneeling
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during the national anthem. >> oh, and lebron and kevin, you're great players, but no one voted for you. keep the political commentary to yourself, or as someone once said, shut up and dribble. >> i'm not sure why it's so hard for so many nfl players to understand why americans don't want to see the flag and the national anthem disrespected on sunday, on game day. >> you have to stand proudly for the national anthem, or you shouldn't be playing. you shouldn't be there. maybe you shouldn't be in the country. >> we are honored to welcome kareem abdul-jabbar to "the beat." he started an auction of people -- memorabilia for auction. you look at this history you've been involved with and now writing about. what do you see as the legacy, and what's important for athletes and fans to do right now? >> well, the legacy is the
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incredible legsy of the civil rights movement. that's what we're dealing with right now. the problems that colin kaepernick was trying to call attention to are the same problems that black americans were dealing with immediately after the second world war when, you know, the civil rights movement really took off and gained steam. >> in your new essay, you compare this to '68, which was a big year for activism in a lot of ways, reading a little kareem to kareem for you to build on, you say outspoken athletes of today face the same hostility from good people who are just ignorant of the facts from those who are terrified of the gradual browning of america, and from those who profit from social disparity. can you speak a little bit about that because in this polarized time, i couldn't help but notice in reading that you are definitely clarifying that there are plenty of, as you put it, good people who might have an initial negative reaction and 2 seems like you're trying to dialogue with them. >> yeah, i am because what i
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don't feel that they understand is the athletes who are taking a knee during the playing of the national anthem are trying to bring attention to a problem, the fact that black americans are killed unnecessarily at a ridiculous rate. and they were trying to bring attention to that problem. they were not trying to disrespect our country or the flag or our military, but they want to call attention to the fact that america is not walking it like it's supposedly talks it. and that is what the issue is all about. >> right. and so how do you also square that with the kind of status that some fans and some americans seem to want to hold athletes, and specifically black athlet athletes in? when you hear this idea that athletes somehow should stay out of politics, well, all of us in america are welcome to engage in politics. but as we just showed,ers that this rich history. what do you make of that kind of view or even that kind of discrimination? >> i think that's absurd. you know, bill bradley certainly
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didn't pay attention to that edict. tom mcmillan, another former nba player who has run for office and had plenty to say about our political situation. the fact that we have a certain profession does not mean that we can't have opinions on very important issues that are being discussed nationally. and, you know, whoever suggested that lebron keep quiet, they didn't know what they were talking about. >> mm-hmm. and then you have in donald trump someone who used to make a big deal out of his relationships with prominent black americans, certainly prominent celebrity black americans, and then just totally flipped his message when he went into racist birtherism and then 2016 campaigning. take a look. >> look at my african-american over here. look at him. are you the greatest? are we going to work on our
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ghettos? what do you have to lose by trying something new like trump? what do you have to lose? what the hell do you have to lose? >> i'd say in contrast to some of the folks you address in your new essay, donald trump, according to many civil rights leaders, is not worth dialoguing with at least at this time. so what do you say to people about that and how to make impact? >> well, we have to do what we can do to change the situation. we have a lot of work to do. we have to register people to vote, and we have to understand what the issues are and appeal to americans on the basis of the issues that they all hold in common. that's just common sense. that's the way the american political system works, and i believe that's how we will get past this moment. >> mm-hmm. let me close with some of the good stuff as well. i want to hear a little bit more about what you're doing with your foundation, which sounds really positive, and we also,
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while we've got you here on sports, wanted to know what you think about lebron going to the lakers. could he ever be the top three or best ever basketball player? you want to weigh in on that long-running debate? >> well, i'm really thrilled that lebron is coming here to los angeles to play. he brings a whole lot to the table, not just on the court, off the court, his leadership, and i'm sure that he's going to be a very positive addition to the laker team. but, you know, as far as my auction is concerned, i'm working with golden auctions. the auction stops on october 27th, and people want to know about how they can get a piece of my career, they can go to, and they can find out all about it. >> that's fantastic. i only wish i got tow have you here in person, but i know you've got a busy schedule. i appreciate you making time for us out in california, kareem. >> oh, anytime, ari. it's great to see you.
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and continue success with your show. >> thank you, sir. kareem abdul-jabbar. we'll mention the new book, mycroft and sherlock. available in stores. next, news breaking literally this hour. in the russia probe, mueller asking paul manafort for information about guess what? roger stone. we have that new story when we're back. (music throughout) constipation until my doctor direcommended stimulant laxatives forcefully stimulate the nerves in your colon. miralax works with the water in your body,
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breaking news right now in the mueller probe.
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abc reporting tonight that robert mueller is now pushing paul manafort for information on roger stone. deputy ag rod rosenstein rarely gives interviews about the russia probe, but tonight he's out defending the probe in a new interview with the "wall street journal." take a look. rosenstein saying the mueller investigation is appropriate, independent, and he's going to ensure it stays that way. i am rejoined by donny deutsche and dan goldman. dan, the news that mueller is keying in on roger stone through paul manafort, who is not only his former business partner in foreign lobbying but stone brought manafort to the campaign originally to deal with. >> when someone cooperates with federal prosecutors, all bets are off.
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but paul manafort is giving robert mueller and his prosecutors absolutely everything that he knows right now, and that, of course, will include anything he knows about roger stone who, again, mueller has been circling around for quite some time now. so it's not a surprise at all given that we know that mueller's focusing on stone, and we know manaforts is cooperating and giving everything he has. but that was a huge break for the investigation because if anyone knows about collusion in the trump campaign, you would have to think it's paul manafort. >> on the flip side, is it possible that manafort could help stone by saying truthfully with his own bacon on the line, yeah, roger exaggerates a lot of stuff. when we talked about whether he had anything, he had nothing. >> i wrote an op-ed in "the washington post" that said exactly that. the best thing about paul manafort cooperating that we will very likely now get to the bottom of whether or not there was collusion. we don't know, but paul manafort
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probably does. if roger stone is right and he has publicly stated over and over again that he did nothing wrong, if he's right, then that's what paul manafort will likely say. >> i look to you for the law, i look to you for the narrative. i'm holding this literally hot off the press breaking here, rod rosenstein going for it "wall street journal" at this point in time, independence and appropriateness for mueller. rosenstein was talking about being ousted. >> it's interesting. once kavanaugh hit, all of the russia investigation took a backseat. there's nothing mueller is going to the officially, but why all of a sudden rod rosenstein has an interview with the "wall street journal" to say it's not a witch-hunt. we already have how many indictments and guilty pleas? >> do you think he's are putting a marker down for further action? >> i think what you'll see turnover next two and a half weeks is things like that coming out reminding the american pick
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up, the voting pick up of how this is going to go, how real is the and how imminent what's coming. obviously there won't be indictments between now and election day, but i find it fascinating. not only this stake in the ground, but pieces of news that come out unofficial about the investigation as we get closer. >> because rod rosenstein doesn't need to talk to major newspapers, one with a conservative bet at the journ "journal" saying mueller stace independent. >> we kind of know at this point. >> my last question has a short answer. is donny free to go? >> donny, you are free to go, but you must come back. >> thank you, counsel. >> there you have it on the breaking news. we have one more thing. we'll be right back. ews. we have one more thing we'll be right back. not cool. freezing away fat cells with coolsculpting? now that's cool! coolsculpting safely freezes and
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we promised one more thing before letting you go, and here it is, a new political video for the midterms from president obama aimed squarely at young people who should get out and vote. >> the last presidential election turned out fewer votes. more people went to coachella. when it comes to "dancing with the stars," people think their vote mars, but a vote in november's election actually does matter. by the way, you wouldn't let your grandparents pick your play list, why would you let them
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pick your representative who's going to determine your future. we have this thing called google. people think the earth is flat. zboolg super easy to read. >> what does obama's shade look like? looks like that. "hardball with chris matthews" with up next. donald of arabia. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. it's hardly been two weeks since jamal khashoggi walked into the saudi consulate in istanbul and never came out. turkish officials say mr. khashoggi was murdered moments after he entered the consulate and
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