tv Morning Joe MSNBC October 18, 2018 3:00am-6:00am PDT
lot while. >> that wraps it.up for us this morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> and he makes the catch. oh, what a play! game saver. andrew betantendi. the red sox win on a spectacular catch by betantendi in left field. wow, what a game. what a finish. >> what a game and, you know, mika, you were just saying what a coincidence, 14 years to the day after dave roberts' incredible steal at second base. that happening. you're exactly right. heek ka, you called that one of the best playoff games you've ever seen. >> no, i didn't, but my daughter did text me that catch and she was very excited about it.
so it looks like it was a wonderful game. >> it was. mike, talk about a fall classic. that one really was a fall chassic right now. there are really no words other than just extraordinary baseball. >> and it was just, what, 15 minutes ago that that game ended. >> just 15 minutes ago. and you know what, willie, it was an entire nine innings. the game started with a call that joe west made, possible fan interference. altuve puts it out, mookie goes up, try toes catch the ball. a fan -- you'll go back and
you'll see that a fan actually closes his glove so he can't make the catch. of course, it's a homer. >> oh, editorializing here. >> look at this. goes up and he's right there. no editorializing. the fan actually closes the glove but, of course, willie, that houston astros fans will forever say that should have been a home run because it looks like he was over the fence when he was doing it and fans can do whatever they want on their side of the fence. >> i was watching a fixer upper marathon on hgtv so i didn't watch the game. but i've read about it. but that was the difference in the game. that would have been a two-run home run. i was just talking to mike about it who obviously was a red sox fan. but he believes the ball crossed over the wall so the fan had the right to the ball. but altuve totally abdomen somped the fan of everything. he said the fan was great. he tried his best.
i appreciate him trying to help me out. from everything i read after the hgtv marathon, that was a great game. >> joe, you mentioned that 14 years later, cowboy joe west the umpire was the umpire who called joe safe at second base. 14 years ago yesterday. >> they couldn't tell by the replay exactly where his glove was, if joe west actually called it a home run, they wouldn't have been able to reverse it. he called it fan interference. >> if he would have been in the same zip code, joe, it might have been a fair call. >> here we go. >> as you can see -- >> i was going to ask why you're so bitter, richard, but i know why you guys are so bitter. you guys win one game, one game, and suddenly you get your boxes out and start playing "new york,
new york" outside our locker room. not a smart move. this is a team you don't want to piss off. >> so as you all can see, with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. nbc news national political reporter heidi prisbela, richard haas. good morning. >> unfortunately, mika, a lot more than baseball. some grim news continues on out of the middle east. and just as grim, america's response to it. a secretary of state that seemed to humiliate america on the world stage, much like donald trump did in helsinki. >> we'll again with the latest on the disappearance of washington post columnist jamal khashoggi. yesterday, the turkish government leaked the gruesome details from what it says is an
audio recording of khashoggi's torture and murder at the hands of what it claims was a 15-minute hit squad. saudi consul left turkey on tuesday and turkish investigators searched his residence yesterday more than two weeks after the october 2nd incident. after turkey leaked the gruesome details, which they said were from a recording of khashoggi's murder, president trump was asked about it yesterday at the white house. >> did you ask for this audio/video intelligence that the turks have? >> we have asked for it. if it exists, we've asked for it. >> are you surprised they haven't turned it over? >> no. i'm not sure that it exists yet. probably does, possibly does. >> i hope we're going to be on the better side of the equation. we need saudi arabia in terms of
our fight against all of the terrorism, everything that's happening in iran and other places. >> i'm not giving cover at all. with that being said, saudi arabia has been a very important ally of ours in the middle east. we are stopping iran. we're the not trying to stop. we're stopping iran. and they are an ally. we have other very good allies in the middle east. but if you look at saudi arabia, they're an ally and they're a tremendous purchaser of not only military equipment, but other things. so they're an important ally. >> we're talking about a man that lived across the river in virginia. why not send the fbi in to figure it out? >> well, he wasn't a citizen of this country for one thing. we're going to determine that. and you don't know whether or not we have, do you? no, do you know whether or not we've sent the fbi? >> have you sent the fbi? >> i'm not going to tell you. why would i tell you? >> i'm a shameful performance
because the whole world is watching, donald. that's why you should tell him. the whole world is watching and they're listening to you and it seems you are for sale. the russians give you a lot of money. you come on our show three years ago and you defend it. you say at least he's a strong leader. why? because it's your son saying you make all of this money from russia. all of these russians, they spent money. you tweeted that it was fake news, what we were saying, that we were lying. you know what we're going to do?
you busted me. i got it from the source. this is embarrassing. i got the information that the saudis helped make you richer from a source that's not a very good source. in fact, it's hard to believe anything that comes from this source because it's a constant stream of steady lies. but i will admit, very embarrassed, but my source for saying that you, donald, came from millions and millions of dollars came from this source right here. let's play this tape right here. i'm ashamed. >> saudi arabia, and i get along great with all of them. they buy apartments from me, they spend $40 million, $50 million. >> i love the saudis. many are in this building. i like the saudis. they're very nice. i make a lot of money with them. they buy all sorts of my stuff. all kinds of toys from trump. they pay me millions and hundreds of millions. >> object okay.
so i'm writing this down. let's see. i like the saudis. they make me rich. they give me 40 million, 50 million, they buy toys from trump. hundreds of of millions of dollars. we still have videotape. >> that's quite a source. >> and donald trump tells people during the campaign that he makes hundreds of millions of dollars from the saudis so he likes them. so here we have this gruesome spectacle and, my god, what's -- your dad obviously ran u.s. foreign policy. your dad was one of the foremost thinkers in american foreign
policy. what would he be saying right now? how humiliated would he be at what this administration is doing? >> he would be staggered. it's one thing when the most powerful country in the world has no leverage over its adversaries. we talked about how the russians and chinese continue to benefit from the america moral impotence. but saudi arabia was supposed to be our ally, this despite the fact that the number 15 keeps coming between american presidents and their so-called friends. first it was the 15 saudi citizens who murdered 3,000 americans on september 11th. now the 15 members of the saudi death squad that reportedly brutally tortured and murdered a washington post columnist and virginia resident -- >> and a virginia -- you're exactly right. a virginia resident that donald trump says shouldn't be afforded american protection. >> so we're sitting here looking at this and we're wondering what our response is going to be.
we are not surprised at the president's pathetic response. but the united states secretary of state seemed to conspire with saudis to keep facts from congress from the american people and the civilized world about this assassination and that is beneath contempt. the saudis seemed to bribe trump with $100 million to assist in u.s. efforts in syria. that blood money will not distract from the saudi 15's deadly deeds from trump's claims during the campaign that he personally profited from saudis to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars or from america's morally drift foreign policy in the age of trump and at a time when quizlings meekly march behind a morally corrupt president. i don't know how you do it. it is appalling.
>> i hadn't even thought about the 15 saudi that's actually killed over 3,000 americans on september 11th. now we have 15 saudis. it was a great parallel that mika made there. you just wonder, how long can the united states turn a blind eye to this country when they put people in charge that do the gruesome things that they do. and we have an american president that sits that and seems to be conspireing with they will. >> it's one thing to stand by an ally. it's something else completely to sit there and be obsequious request when so many of the facts point toward what all the media is saying and what the turkish government is saying. so now we're going to come to a point where the united states intel agencies say mr. president, we've gathered all this information. it is clear to us not only that khashoggi was murdered, but that mbs was behind it. given this wind up of the
president, what will he say this? >> clearly he was murdered. it's not 100% sure that he will ever be able to say that the crown prince is behind it. but we may not have the specific fingerprints on it. and that could, based on everything that we've just talked about, that could give the president some excuse if he wants to say, it's still not clear. this is the tammy wintt foreign policy. they're going to stand behind their man. what's so consistent in their point of view is that they are talking about this great ally. this is the great ally that started a war in yemen. that is essentially the vietnam of the modern middle east. had the pressure against qatar. never had had any positive influence on the palestinians as best we can see, now have committed murder. so it's not clear what return we're particular areally getting on investment. mika was talking about -- and joe were talking about mika's
dad, dr. brzezinski. what this seems to me in some ways is reminiscent of what happens with iran in the 1970s. there we had an ally headed by this figure, the shah, and this ally was increasingly going off the rails. the carter administration was struggling with that. and i think we have a version of that now. it's not exact been, but a version of it. an important ally, which at times hasn't been acting like an ally, a leader who is impulsive. and the administration is caught. they're worried that if they ditch the him, that they show any daylight between him and them, that something could be worse. so that is where we are. they're caught. but my guess is, just like the saudi leadership, they're going to try to brazen this out. they prefer the devil they know to the uncertainty to the devil they don't. even though he is at flawed as
he clearly is. >> and heidi, you have marco rubio saying on sunday if the president won't do something like this, we will. bob corker has sort of sent up some red flares in the press saying we're not getting the intelligence sharing we should be getting through this. what has the reaction been like on capitol hill from your point of view? >> capitol hill has been waiting to see what pompeo did on this trip. now what we're seeing is that pompeo went over there, and the big tell here in terms of this administration allowing saudi arabia to have plausible deniability is the fact that pompeo went over there, didn't demand to see that tape, didn't demand to the hear that tape. it's being reported by all mainstream media is he's going to come back and allow the saudis to say that the crown prince likely didn't know about it. i don't know that congress is going to let this go. the senate foreign relations committee sent a powerful level bipartisan across the board from the ranking member and the chairman, the first time that
they've tried to trigger the magnitski administration which essentially says, hey, administration, you've got 120 days for this investigation for you to make a determination about whether there was a gross violation of human rights here and to report back. and at that point, you must impose sanctions. i talked to senate foreign relations senior staffer last night and they said it's possible that the administration could then ignore that. he said, quote, but it would be pretty reprehensible and a new low. >> what does it tell you that the administration has informed the senate intelligence committee, senate foreign relations committee no additional intelligence. no additional intelligence will be shared for now about this event. what does that tell you? >> this is a cover up. this is the administration being complicit. and what has gone -- they don't want to know the truth because the truth would create can awkward foreign policy choices. so the administration, rather than pressing immediately for an
international legitimate investigation, what are are we seeing said, mike? we see cleaning crews with bleach going into the building. so this is preposterous where, again, shredding our own credibility. and for what? the only sanctions we'll have, probably some financial sanctions. this is going back to business as usual even though it makes us look -- these guys time and time again are not acting as allies. >> joe, wheyo president, what you have is foreign policy. he keeps time and time again bringing up the $110 billion arms deal.
which isn't quite accurate. but he's talking about money, time and again. this is about money for him. it's not about human rights. it's not about what this relationship should be or what we stand for. it's about money in the united states treasury. >> we've said it time and again. if you want to understand donald trump's foreign policy, you look where his properties are. you you look at quotes from donald trump and his family. where did they make their money? his sons bragged. they make their money from russia. donald trump bragged at his campaign rally. why shouldn't he like him, donald trump says. he throws out this $110 billion deal as a smoke screen, but it doesn't even exist. what does exist? the fact that donald trump has made, he says, hundreds of millions of dollars from the
saudis in the past and he wants to make hundreds of millions from saudis in the future. one of these days people are going to understand that donald trump didn't expect to be elected president. donald trump is not going to do a second term. donald trump is going to cash in his poker chips at the end of the first term and get really, really rich because he doesn't care about what you think he cares about. all he cares about is money. he's going to sell out u.s. foreign policy down the river. he's going to say, hey, remember when you carved up that washington post reporter and i didn't say anything? yeah, let's do business, man. that's how donald trump thinks. and i wonder, mika, if voters in less than three weeks are going to remember that. and if they're going to reward that type of behavior. we're less than three weeks
away. where this abhorrent behavior is acceptable. >> if you want checks on this president, you have a vote. let's look at the polls while we're talking about election day. the main issues motivating you to vote in 2018, health care comes in at 13%, reigning in trump at 10%. the economy ranks 9%. the poll finds that the 46% saying supreme court nominations are extremely important to their vote are more likely to favor the democratic candidate by 7 points. that's interesting. >> that is interesting.
a lot of these polls are tightening up, especially tennessee which we'll get to in a minute. but fox news came out with a poll yesterday that actually showed that the congressional ballot test is unchanged. pre-kavanaugh, post-kavanaugh, the one they the released yesterday came a sufficient distance out that we were all talking about to occur. the sounds and the furry of those hearings are a distance memory now for a lot of the voters. >> that was the feeling and the aftermath. there was still a month until
election day. we've got another poll this week that shows the race in tennessee tightening up a little bit. we have 2 1/2 weeks. god knows what's going to happen between now and then, but it does look like the gaps are closing a bit. still ahead, don mcghan is out. the white house counsel is heading for the door a few months after sitting down with the special counsel. there are several new developments in the russia probe. but first, let's get to bill karins. >> is bill on mueller's list? >> no. >> bill, have you been -- >> he's a sweetie pie. >> i am -- i am pleading the fifth. >> no subpoenas. >> he's pleading the fifth. >> well, just tell us the weather. how is that? >> that maybe i could give you. i won't get in too much trouble for that, just a little bit. the cold is the story. it with was a week ago we were complaining in the east, it's so humid still.
i can't wait for fall. how is this morning feeling? it's in the 20s in much of the northeast and the new england areas. albany is at 26. windchill, saranak lake is at 15. the rid are heading out with winter coats and in some cases the hats and the gloves. because of this, we have a lot of freeze warnings into the growing season in a lot of areas here as the temperatures dip below 32. remember we showed you those pictures of texas a couple of days ago with the horrendous rainfall.? yesterday was better, but we still have another 1 to 3 inches to go. a lot of those dams are releasing so much water right now because so much water is flowing into them that the rivers are staying pretty high. today's forecast, not bad throughout the midwest. and how about tampa? this will be like four days in a row of near record highs with temperatures in the low 90s. everyone else is saying what happened to our warm weather?
they're saying give me a taste of fall in the sunshine state. we're living you with new york city. coldest morning of the season. windchill about 39 degrees in central park. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ing "mornin" we'll be right back. my mom was freedom, and my dad, adventure. they baptized me in mud and christened me on rock, so i got tougher. they fostered a love of learning, so i got smarter. taught me to appreciate the finer things in life, so i became more civilized and refined. thank you, freedom and adventure, for giving me this rugged, civilized, wandering soul. discover.o.giving me this rugged, civilized, i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover.
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my quote and meaning in the story. they just can't help themselves. fake news. jonathan lamere spoke to chris jansing yesterday to defend the ap's reporting. >> you asked if he thought he would bear some responsibility if the republicans would lose the house and the president said, no, i think i'm helping people. and he took issue with this title that trump says he won't accept blame if gop loses the house. tell us about that conversation. >> sure. the transcript is there plain as day. we asked the question, he answered no. >> so, joe, it was pretty clear what the president said. he said if we win, it was me. if we lose, it wasn't. >> it's in the transcript. i mean, he's not even trying any more. look at the saudi deal. he tells his own people repeatedly during campaign rallies, i've made hundreds of
millions of dollars from the saudis. i got so rich off the saudis. and then he says, it's fake news. then he talks to poor jonathan lamere, who i feel so sorry for him because he didn't get any sleep, either, watching the red sox. and then it's in the transcript. and he thinks the next day he can say fake news and people that support him are so stupid and so dumb and it's insulting to them that he thinks that they're that stupid and that they're that dumb that they can't just read the transcript and see that he's lying through his teeth. he really needs to try a little more. it's becoming embarrassing. >> johnnathan lamere tweeted ou exactly what the president said. joining us now, amy walter and
can steve kornacki. his new book is "the red and the blue, the 1990s and the" -- >> it is so good. holy cow. >> we're just going to clip that and put it on the back of the paper back. >> the new blushes, yes. >> just some noises of approval. >> let's look at tennessee. we mentioned that, the tennessee senate poll. marsha blackburn is in a statistical tie with phil bre s bredesen. i mentioned there was a "new york times" poll that had 14 points for blackburn. what is going on in tennessee? >> the time length for that particular poll is a little long. we've seen four polls now this month in tennessee. it's been blackburn by four, blackburn by 8, blackburn by 14 and now blackburn by 3.
we can say i think that over the summer what we were typically seeing in this race was bredesen's popularity. kavanaugh, maybe that was the event. maybe it was inevitable. but since around the start of this month, we have seen a trend towards what you call political uncertainty reasserting itself. >> this was never a 14-point race. this was never a 14-point race. bredesen, one of the most popular governors in all of america. this guy is sitting in the 60s. chances are good this one will be tight to the end.
>> in a place like arizona where it looks like maybe the republicans would get into a really nasty primary fight, that didn't happen. and what we're seeing is the political gravities start to come into play here, that red states are behaving like red states and blue states are behaving like blue states. so where it seems like we are two weeks before the election is the senate map and the house.map both seem to be closing in, which is the ceiling now for democratic gains seems to be dropping. and you're right, i don't know if this is about -- this is kavanaugh that just pushed this up or whether this was going to the happen anyway coming into october. but i do think that we are looking at a map now for democrats the that's looking a lot tougher in the senate. which it most likely was always going to be, unless something good happened. >> but, you know, if something
definitely bad happened yesterday for democrats in north dakota, i'm just curious what you all think about heidi heitkamp who is already on the defensive who report that she used sexual assault survivors in her campaign ads without getting their permission. i'm wondering if that is a race that democrats should just write off at this point. >> it looks like we've been saying north dakota, the single toughest seat for democrats to hold. the most recent polling, right before the kavanaugh vote showed a double deficit for height camp. this new controversy would make that worse. there's a lot of different ways to carve up the map and look at it. basically, if you want the democrats to be in the game, just to have a chance to take the senate theoretically, they have to win one of three at a very basic level. it's either north dakota or tennessee or texas.
if you can win one of those, you can be in the game elsewhere to put the map together. but if you get wiped out in those three, i don't see it. and north dakota already, it was not looking good for them. >> yeah, that's right. >> right now, i'm sure democrats are keeping their eyes on tennessee, especially after this poll last night, despite the late latest round of polling. let's go to florida. boy, what a tight race this is going to be. talk about going down to the very end. this has been -- this is one of those races like north carolina was back in 2014. in the margin of error for a year and this thing is still in the margin of error. it's all going to come down to voter turnout in the state of florida. >> that race is never going to break. whatever the mood is in the country at that moment, when you can feel a breeze when one party
sort of has the advantage, that's where i think you're going to see the race tip at the very end. the other thing that could help bill nelson is the fact that the the gubernatorial candidate is doing fairley well. but rick scott has been on tv a lot. when you're in the middle of a national emergency, you get your -- and you're the governor, you get yourself a whole lot of media attention. in this case, some pretty good media attention. so i think this goes to the end. >> 49/42 for the democrats in this congressional ballot. unchanged since september 19th, which was the feeling pre-kavanaugh. it doesn't look like kavanaugh has had the effect we thought it might. >> yeah. i think there's a couple different ways to look at it.
you could make an argument that cavanaugh is motivated on both sides. if you look at these the battleground house districts, maybe this is further energized democrats in those places. and then you look at a tennessee or a north dakota, a red state, it might cut the other way. the other thing in that box news positive, it has trump's ratings at 47%. if you look at the average trump approval rating, he's at his highest level since the first week of june. it seems every time he reaches one of these peaks, it crashes a couple weeks later. if this were to crash between now and election day with, i think it scrambles things. >> what's your view, amy, on the kavanaugh effect?
>> i tried to the look at it primarily from the standpoint of i thought this person was qualified for the job. i didn't think that dr. ford certainly was believable. in the end, i didn't think the weight of the evidences was there to really say that's enough to overturn the president's choice. i thought it through carefully. not just follow the party line on things. i thought that was the right call. >> that's phil bredesen, a democrat running in a red state. he's very popular in that state. >> i think what democrats were hoping is a couple of things were going to happen. number one, the president was going to be much more unpopular and there would be an enthusiasm lag for republicans. the second thing is they were
going to make this checks and balance case, right? i'm not against the president. i think he's doing fine. but in placeses where i think he's not doing good for my state, i'm going to let him know what is what. that is going to have an appeal. now when you have the president's approval rating, 44%, 45 be 44%, 45%. what kavanaugh did was bring things back to their traditional color. if you're red, you're red. if you're blue, you're blue. as the president's approval rating has gone up, we still don't see the generic ballot get worse, right? in some of these polls, what happens was the reason for his rise was all republicans. and the number that i'm spending a lot of time looking at is independence. all of these polls that have
come out recently, independents still 35%, 40% approval rating of the president. that is not where you want to be if you're in an actual swing state. >> heidi, going back to the tennessee poll for a second, talking about people coming home to their party, bredesen is interesting. the "new york times" see anna poll that came out that showed him down by 14, 15, 16 points, that was right after the supreme court fight, right after he said he would support cough you gnaw. brett kavanaugh, why do we want to support him? a week later, you know what? it's looking like a pretty good deal compared to marsha blackburn for a lot of progressives as cross the country. for a lot of democrats in tennessee, that just may be
democrats coming home. >> that's right. and i think it's going to be hard to dent that democratic enthusiasm that has been there from the start. so what we're seeing now, like what steve and amy are saying, is that the republicans have closed some of that gap. but that is my question in looking at all of these polls is that the polling measures preference for candidates, but it doesn't measure enthusiasm. the democrats have had that advantage. the republicans closed it somewhat. but my question to you guys is the democrats still have that advantage. so how much is that worth in some of these races where it is so close given that the polls don't really measure the fact that democrats still remain more enthusiastic than republicans? >> yeah. in this new poll, they do ask a question about are you more moerveated right now compared to a normal election. and there was over the summer a pretty big imbalance between the parties. in this new poll that's evening out a little bit. so i do think that's been the story of october in terms of
these dynamics we're talking about. the democrats have been up here since trump got elected. the republicans have been like here. they've ticked up to here over the last few weeks. and the question to me, the variable is do they stay here or do they come back down to where it was. >> steve listed three states that democrats would like to control. north dakota looks like it would float away. texas and tennessee. >> they can't win without them. but the states in my mind, arizona, they believed they were going to win, hold down any losses. >> steve will be taking part in politicon at theenter. find more information at politicon.com. and all the kornacki groupies will be out in full force in
l.a. >> i should say i'm not actually going to be there. i will be there on video. >> on videos. groupies are going to stay home now. you shouldn't have said that. still ahead, jamal khashoggi has not been seen since october 2nd. last night, "the washington post" published the last column he wrote. we will talk to his editor about his final piece next on "morning joe." s editor about his final piece next on "morning joe. my name is elaine barber, and i'm a five-year cancer survivor. surviving for five years is a big deal. i had so many people at ctca helping me find a way
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"the washington post" has published what it is describing as the last piece written by jamal khashoggi. the paper's opinion editor, karen attia, says she received the piece entitled what the arab world needs most is free expression. from khashoggi's translator and assistant the day after he was reported missing in istanbul. she says the post held off publishing it because khashoggi's colleagues had hoped he would come back. but they have accepted that that is not going to happen. in the piece, khashoggi writes, arab governments have been given free rein to continue silencing the media at an increasing rate. ensorship a time when
and control associated with print media. but these governments whose very existence relies on the control of information have aggressively blocked the internet. they have also arrested local reporters and pressured advertisers to harm the revenue of specific publications. the arab world needs a modern version of the old transnational media so citizens can be informed about global events. more important, we need to provide a platform for arab voices. we suffered from poverty, mismanagement, and poor education. through the creation of an independent, international forum, isolated from the influence of nationalist governments spreading hate through propaganda, ordinary people in the arab world would be able to address the structural problems there societies face. that sounds like a goal in his memory potentially. and global opinions editor at
"the washington post," karen attaia joins us now on "morning joe." karen, thank you for being on with us. >> thank you for having me. >> what kind of journalist was jamal like to work with? >>. >> he was incredibly enthusiastic and eager. he came to us last september writing a piece about how the repression in saudi arabia had gotten so unbareble that he felt the need to flee basically to washington. so his first piece with us sort of coming out and explaining why he had been quiet for so long, he lost his column in a saudi newspaper. i mean, i think he was pained to have to write about how repressive things were were. he was seeing his friends being locked up. but, you know, he was -- he just wanted to write.
he was extremely enthusiastic. he would come to the post and his eyes would just light up, waking around the news room, take selfies around the news room. and he would just say, oh, this were times, you know, where he would just say, you know, what can i do? give me something to do. i'll do this for free. i'll edit an arab version for free. >> richard haas, you look at the quote from his final piece, talking about arab leaders quote, silencing the media at an increasing pace. how chilling is that when you consider how actually the saudi government silenced khashoggi himself? >> it's chilling and unfortunately 100% accurate. what saudi arabia has become
under the crown prince, yes, there's little dots or isolated examples of reform, joe, but he's turning saudi arabia into egypt. this is a top heavy authoritarian police state. so, yes, religion may be playing slightly less overall, nationalism a greater role. this is anything but free. even that he's allowed twoem drive he's arrested activists. the only reform allowed in saudi arabia the state reform that crown prince approves of. what khashoggi was suggesting we need real civil society, individuals with rights and that's inconsistent with the idea of a state directed top down controlled political reform agenda. >> but, richard, there's something even more troubling than what cc or other leaders may be doing across northeast. cc never abducted a "the washington post" reporter and a
u.s. resident and reportedly carved them up in their consulate. this crosses so many lines to places we've never been before, which suggests that either nbs is extraordinarily stupid, or just extraordinarily arrogant and makes the world more difficult for not only saudis, but their allies, and the rest of the middle east. >> i don't think he's stupid. i've spent enough time with him to know that. he is arrogant, he's impulsive, he's reckless. >> what did he think would come of this? how could you not be lacking basic intelligence, basic understanding and do something like this? what exactly, richard, did he think was going to come of this >> joe, his entire life he's been able to get away with anything. he can run an anti-corruption
campaign on tuesday and on wednesdays he can buy yachts and expensive oil paintings. there's nothing in his life that says you can do what you want and get away with it. this is consistent what we've seen and this is consistent with the middle east. there are 50,000 political prisoners in a place like egypt. so mubarak may have been done this at an egyptian consulate, but don't kid ourselves. this is the modern middle east. what's different about this is not just the grotesque detail, this was out in the open. this is not what's just normal in the middle east but an extra level of arrogance. >> what was your reaction yesterday when the president of the united states in referring to any cooperation or pushing the saudis for more information on exactly what happened to jamal, that he basically said
jamal was not a citizen of our country. >> i can't -- i don't know if i have the words to describe sort of how sad and sort of disgusted at, you know, the insinuation we shouldn't care about a human being based on their citizenship. fine. jamal was living here in the washington area. his children, some of his children are u.s. citizens, if we want to take it there. but, again, it's this -- to not act, to allow whoever did this and a lot of evidence is pointing to the saudis to get away with this, sends an absolutely chilling message not only to journalists but to
anyone who even dares think about criticizing the saudi authorities that they can be butchered, butchered abroad and there will be no consequences. i really do think this is probably the biggest moral case, moral test case for the united states in a very, very long time. i think the entire world is watching. i think it also, if we turn our backs on this, it sends a message to the regime, the authoritarian regimes that they can do this and get away with it. not only get away with it but get pr cover from the administration which is, i think, we're entering a new realm of -- it's lawless, almost, you know. >> yes. this was a heinously brutal crime. clearly khashoggi posed some kind of serious threat to this regime which we do not yet understand. in terms of establishing the motive and timing, is there anything that you can tell us
about what he may have been working on that posed such a threat to this regime that could help illuminate. that column about the media, freedom of the media, that, of course s-an insult to the regime but doesn't necessarily pose a grave threat that might explain why this happened. can you tell us anything about what he may have been working on? >> right. so, yeah, i mean i do know that he was -- he had all sorts of ideas, i think, like i said about his energy, his being here. he really wanted to -- he was thinking about setting up an ngo. he was thinking about maybe writing a book. for our part here he really wanted to set up some sort of platform for arab voices and he definitely we increased publishing him in arabic and see how they reacted to kohn commenting on their foreign
rights or their human rights issues in arabic, knowing he can reach that audience. a huge majority of saudis can't read english. his ideas that were an irritant to the authorities reaching the saudi population, you know, no doubt, perhaps could have irritated them more. but, as far as like any specific threat that he told me about, no. if anything he was just more enthusiastic and making plans for the future. >> was he working on anything about financial ties, can you tell us that? >> as far as i know, i don't know about that. but i think -- i do think, really, he was looking to get settled. he was looking to get married. he told me about his divorce from his previous wife due to his work. but i think ultimately, though, it is a threat. it was a threat to the regime to have his ideas and have his work be published in arabic, and i do
think that -- but he believed in it until the very end. he wasn't afraid. i don't think he was afraid to do it. >> thank you very much for being on the show this morning. please come back. still ahead with just a few months left as speaker of the house, paul ryan gets a bit of push back when he says president trump rallies only sometimes -- his rallies only sometimes sow division. we'll play you that exchange. plus deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is defending robert mueller's russian probe and the way he describes at any time inquiry sounds like a far cry from what the president likes to call a rigged witch-hunt. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back.
with that being said, saudi arabia has been a very important ally of ours in the middle east. we are stopping iran. >> president trump reduces mid east policy down to this. with the saudis still in power in syria and yemen a complete disaster. is there a sign that maybe it's actually working? welcome back to "morning joe". it's thursday, october 18th. along with joe, willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. nbc news national political reporter heidi przybyla. the president on the council of foreign relations richard haas and joining the conversation, "new york times" washington bureau chief and former u.s.
permanent representative for nato. his new book "the empty throne" america's abby occasion -- abdi global leadership. >> we were talking before how saudi leadership thought they could get away with this. you said they've grown-up getting exactly what they've wanted their entire life. so have other saudi kings who understood there were just things they couldn't do and survive on the world stage. i understand donald trump who says he's made hundreds of millions of dollars off the saudis, i understand how donald trump is not going to be a check on this man. but certainly our congress either this congress or the next congress will check him. and i really do wonder. let's look more than one week ahead. let's look six months ahead.
let's look six years ahead. what's the likelihood that nbs will ever get past this? will ever be seen as a legitimate head of saudi arabia? will ever be accepted into the global community in a way he was before this horrific news broke >> well the answer is he won't and he'll have a stain of illegitimacy that will be with him for the rest of his life and political career. it will hurt him with the financial community. you'll see push back with shareholders, public pension funds about doing certain things in saudi arabia. congress as you say will do things. it will be really interesting for the rest of donald trump's presidency and so long as jared kushner is there do they invite this guy anywhere near the 18 acres of the south lawn and the white house? hard to see that. domestically let me say he's really popular. most saudis are under 30 years.
he's very popular with them. he's created a real sense of nationalism. the sunni governments that the egyptians and others will be bought off. my sense is he'll be able to probably weather it domestically. regionally this is, again, what people expect. but i think you're right, he didn't think this through. he's an impulsive guy who never thinks through the next move or the move after next. you could have a situation where he goes through his career with preobvious little legitimacy in europe and the united states but able to survive domestically and regionally. quite possible. >> elizabeth, i'm trying to find a parallel from the cold war when the united states knew that we had to at times deal with people that were on our side against the soviets who may have done things that were offensive to basic democratic norms. just can't really come up with it. i can remember -- i don't remember, but we all read
growing up about eisenhower actually crossing great britain when they went too aggressively after egypt and caused the suez charisma. this is just not what the united states typically does. i don't know how donald trump and how the united states congress actually does this moving forward. >> i it's interesting. i don't know what donald trump does now that his intelligence agencies have said that they are increasingly convinced that nbs was responsible or culpable in the killing of khashoggi. as you know, president trump has been very circumspect and we're waiting to hear what he says today. emeeting with pompeo, who just got back. but basically what's happened now is that the intelligent agencies have boxed in the president and forced him to decide what he's going to say today and the near future about
nbs. they have made their views known and now the president is going to have to either reject those views or embrace them and, you know, he's in a very tough spot given what he said the last few days and given how much business the united states does with saudi arabia. >> the book is about global leadership and you call it america's abdication of american leadership. as you watch the president giving the benefit of doubt to the saudi regime, sending mike performance foam the kingdom for a smiling photo op, they are leaning that nbs had something to do with it, he ordered it. >> this is exemplary behavior for donald trump in the sense that the leader of the free world, which is what the united states used to be, is not leading and doesn't seem to care about the free world.
so the moral values that the united states has held dear, freedom of the press, the idea that democracy is important, that we stand up for human rights is absent from the entire discussion that donald trump has had on this case. he's more worried about so-called jobs with general dynamics and boeing than he is about upholding fundamental values that the united states has held dear and he's not leading. he's not actually spending time figuring out how to get to the bottom of this. 000 push the saudis to get to be accountable for what's happening. he's sending mike pompeo on a shuttle mission for 15 minute photo ops with rbs and erdogan without getting to the bottom of it. that's what the united states used to do stand up for fundamental values and then how to get an international coalition together to pressure in this case the saudi regime to be held for account. that's no longer happening. that's why america's global leadership is being abdicated.
>> so if u.s. intelligent officials walk into the oval office and says mr. president mr. khashoggi was murdered and ordered from the top, the crown prince, what should the president of the united states do? >> he should make it year the nature of the relationship between the united states and saudi arabia has to change and, indeed, the united states has to lead an international coalition. clearly, get the u.n. to condemn this behavior and start changing the balance of power. right now leverage seems in the saudi hands. the arm sales which the saudis that are buying that provides leverage over the united states rather than the other way around. we should have leverage over the nbs. we are the major power in the world. we can lead a global coalition that includes folks in europe and other parts. we can go the u.n. and try to get some serious sanctions or serious actions to condemn this kind of behavior. if you don't do that, if you just sit back and say, you know,
the bilateral relationship is more important than moral value that is upheld, then others are going behave this way as well and it makes it worse for the united states and worse for the world. >> you were a permanent representative to nato. president of the united states, current president of the united states is going out of his way to basically insult nato over a specific per of time. we look at things in this country now in terms of the next 12 hours, and we're so impatient. what are the long term consequences and by long term i mean a year, year and a half, two years. long term consequences of what is happening today with regard to saudi arabia and the united states relationship in capitals like berlin and london and paris and other capitals. >> credibility and legitimacy of the united states as a global leadership is at stake. leadership depends on trust and confidence and the ability of the followers to say we think you in the end will do the right
thing. that trust and confidence has been broken. it's like in a marriage. when trust is broken in a marriage it's extraordinarily difficult to restore. and i think what we're seeing right now, at least at the public level, a sign that people don't want to be closely associated with the united states and with donald trump and at the leader level people are increasingly saying maybe standing up against the united states is good for my popularity. we see it in iran, at the u.n. security council where the united states was chairing the u.n. security council meeting and it was 14 against one, 14 countries against the united states, aligned with iran. that's never happened before. when is the last time that the united states, germany, france, sat together and said we'll be against the united states and be with russian and iran. that's an indictment on america's leadership. >> at some point donald trump will not be the president of the
united states and we'll have the 46th president. for argument's sake, say the 46th president is more traditional, more like donald trump's predecessors how will europeans and others react. how do things go back to the way you and i remember or to what extent does this cause enduring damage to the relationship? >> it's going to have a long term impact. it doesn't mean a new president that does traditional foreign policy and engagement tries to lead isn't able to marshal the forces behind him or her whenever that occurs but it's more difficult because a fundamental degree of trust has been broken. i want also depends a little bit upon what the allies are going to do between now and then. will they work together try to uphold what we call the rules based order, that international order that the united states has created an led for seven years and if they do, then maybe the relationship would be a little bit more balanced, which would be a good thing. that is europeans and asians
spending more on defense, a little more on upholding the order. and we could have a better relationship. but it's going to take a lot of work and a lot of sides to get this relationship back on track even with the best of goodwill as president of the united states. >> amazing. >> thank you so much for being with us. we do appreciate it. mika, richard asked that question, what do we do with the 46th president, when the 46th president comes in and leapt us hope that 46th president is a bit more traditional than the 45th president so we can actually address those concerns. you know, that's still two years away. we've seen over the past week, week and a half just how morally compromised america can be in the past week and a half. there are 19 days until the mid-term elections where actually people can get elected, they can actually check this president and check the worst
instincts of members of congress in three weeks. >> there's a throat be upset about. there's a lot of really -- people are staggered at the way this president has responded to the saudi assault, alleged assault on us, on our press. people are upset about the brett kavanaugh hearings. as you said election day is 19 days away. here's your chance. history suggests the opposition party, the democrats should do very well. donald trump has given them 1001 reasons to care, to get engaged, to show up at the polls. >> to show up. >> the whitewashing of white supremacists that marched in charlottesville, his calculated cruel separation of young children from their parents at the mexican border. his promise to ban 1.5 billion human beings from america because of the god they pray to. his cabinet is so filled with
scandals it's hard to keep up with them. the president's unprecedented interference in an fbi investigation into his own apparent efforts to obstruct justice and a style of vindictive childish behave, bullying, that would make joe mccarthy blush. voters have a lot of reason to turn out to send a message and put a real check on donald trump. they have the power. there's 19 days to get engaged, to make a difference, and to put a constitutional check on donald trump. you can do it. so the question is, will voters, will democrats care more than they did in 2016? we'll find out in 19 days. so let's take a look at some of the new numbers. a national poll from fox news has the generic congressional ballot at 49% for the democrat, 42% for republicans, unchanged from their last poll in
mid-september. the main issue for voters to vote is health care which garnered 13%. >> willie geist, first of all, of course, the big headline is that there isn't a huge change. in fact, there's no change pre and post kavanaugh on this ballot cast. but the top issue is the issue that democrats have said they were going to be talking about throughout the entire campaign, and that is health care. with immigration down low and the supreme court down even lower. what do you think it means? >> this tracks with everything we've seen and everything we've heard from our reporters. when our great reporters go out in the field health care. jobs are top of mind. immigration in certain districts and states is top of mind. if you go, elizabeth, and you big into these race, claire
mccaskill is talking about health care, these big national story, whether it's russia or judge kavanaugh even, maybe energizing in spurts and moments, but inside people's daily lives it's the issues we just listed there topped by health care. >> that's right. and you saw mitch mcconnell said recently that should he get enough votes in the senate there would be an effort to overturn obamacare yet again. so i think that will motivate democrats to turn out. but it's very interesting. we spent all our time in washington focusing on khashoggi, on kavanaugh, on the russia investigation and it turns out once again out in the country it's the economy which actually goes into donald trump's favor. the economy is doing very well and that's something that democrats have to contend with. we have discovered that voters are not obsessed at all with the russian investigation, despite all of the coverage in the last
two years of it. i do think as you said before that kavanaugh, and president trump's treatment of christine blasey ford, i do think that is resonating among women voters and especially suburban women in these swing districts. there's a lot of anger out there still. >> a lot of anger. of course, mike, that certainly will motivate some democrats that were already motivated but perhaps it motivates them even more to work the phone banks over the 19 days, to do the sort of things that republicans did in '94 and 2010, we'll wait and see. let's talk about health care. that comes in the fox news poll as the top issue that people are concerned about. you have mitch mcconnell to completely obliterate obamacare. then he put some space between himself and donald trump where he talked about he wanted to go
after medicare, social security and entitlement reform, sort of things that maybe i talk about, sort of things that donald trump and the republican party don't want to talk about right now with 19 days. but mitch has talked about it. you almost sense that's a big opening. it's an unforced error that could hurt some republican candidates. >> joe, it's kind of interesting and elizabeth just references as we obviously pay a lot of attention to the mueller investigation, to russia. we pay an enormous amount of attention to a really important story, what happened in saudi arabia, to a journalist, the torture and murder of a journalist. we pay enormous amount of attention to that. but out in the country if you talk to people you realize that this is still a paycheck to paycheck economy, that there are some people, maybe a lot of people who are kind of resentful about the coverage and the
glorification we atry but to the stock markets record stock prices. a lot of people are not involved in the stock market but there's one encouraging sign, joe. if you check out state by state the number of early voters showing up it's really -- it's a tremendous amount in comparison to two, four, six years ago of early voting going on. >> they really seem to be energized and they were energized before kavanaugh. you can go back to the first week donald trump was in office. you look at the women's marches. i was skeptical at first. march is one thing. you have to get people out to vote. they actually used those marches and used those marches to actually, you know, get people engaged, get people energized. we saw results of it in northern virginia, in alabama, some shocking results and we'll see if we see the results of it in states like tennessee. let's look at this tennessee pop approximately we heard about a
week ago it was a 14 point spread. not the pollster's mistakes, sometimes you have outliars. this shows the race being three points apart and you just -- you just have to wonder, elizabeth, are we starting to see a tightening the further, in a lot of these races the further we move beyond the white heat sound and fury of the kavanaugh hearings. >> i think that's true. you saw that phil bredesen would have voted for kavanaugh, he would have confirmed him. that gives him some cover. yes, we all know that voters don't vote out of gratitude for what happened in the past. they vote for the future and they vote out of anger so i think that might be what we're seeing, is the republicans settled down. trump got them riled up saying there was this democratic mob going after them. but, you know, the republicans got what they wanted. they have kavanaugh on the supreme court.
so, again, i don't see how what they are upset about. what they are angry about. again, they are not going to vote out of thank yof thankfuln this happened. >> one of the most discouraging realities in american politics. willie geist, the biggest example of this and voters don't vote out of gratitude, winston church mill stands alone against hitler, saves western civilization, keeps western civilization in the fight long enough for the united states to become engaged, and right as he's winning the war an election is called and churchill is thrown out of office. his wife said it was a blessing in disguise, perhaps and he said well if it was a blessing in disguise, it was one of the greatest disguised blessings i have ever seen in my life. elizabeth is right. voters don't vote out of gratitude. >> no. they don't like incumbents.
so again if you look at tennessee that's a read state. but as you know, joe, it's about candidates. it's about fitting your state or fitting your district. phil bredesen was a very popular governor. he was re-elected last decade by 70 pints. republicans are running a centrist candidate. he has a chance to turn that senate seat blue. >> churchill got the order of the boot. >> that's right. elizabeth, thank you so much for being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> ted cruz has voted to take away health care for millions of american families. he's tried repeatedly to roll back protections for pre-existing conditions. at a time when nearly half the school teachers in texas are working a second job to make ends meet ted cruz wants to take our public tax dollars out of their classrooms and turn them into vouchers. he's vowed to deport every
single dreamer. >> beto o'rourke takes on a new tone in an attempt to paint texas blue or at least purple. will it work? we'll talk to another lonestar democrat, former san antonio mayor and obama cabinet secretary, william castro. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. cal: we saved our money and now, we get to spend it - our way. ♪ valerie: but we worry if we have enough to last. ♪ cal: ellen, our certified financial planner™ professional, helps us manage our cash flow and plan for the unexpected. valerie: her experience and training gave us the courage to go for it. it's our "confident forever plan"... cal: ...and it's all possible with a cfp® professional.
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which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. the unlikely journey that brought me here tonight began many miles from this podium. my family's story isn't special, but what's special is the america that makes our story possible. ours is a nation like no other, a place where great journeys can be made in a single generation, no matter who you are or where you come from, the path is always forward. >> then mayor of san antonio julian castro grab the country's attention at the keynote speech
at the 2012 democratic convention. he went on the serve as president obama's secretary of housing and urban development. castro is considered a rising star in the democratic party and a potential candidate for president in 2020. he's out with a new memoir that traces his roots from a family of immigrants to his rise of prominence. his book is entitled "an american journey." mr. mayor, good to see you. you said previously -- we'll get this out of the way, it's likely you'll run for president in 2020. do you want to say for sure this morning? >> i would love to make news with you all. i've been very straightforward with folks. i said i've been seriously considering running in 2020 for a while and during these last few months i've had an opportunity to get around the country to support candidates who are running for election in 19 days. during that time i got a sense of what folks are thinking, the mood of the country. there are still two things i
need to do. my wife and i, of course, have talked about the possibility of me running, but we haven't had the kind of step back, long conversation that you have for a decision like that. then secondly, i want to see what happens on november 6th because i really do believe these elections set the mood for the next couple of years. and i want to get a sense of that. >> whatever happens on november 6th, donald trump will be president of the united states and likely on the ballot in 2020. as a democrat who might sit across the stage from him, what do you see in his administration that you would like to take on? >> what don't i see that i would like to take on. >> what specifically? >> first of all let's take on his strongest argument is about the economy. i mean he's like a guy who got the ball in the 2 yard line and got it over the goal and is now claiming he did the whole drive.
basically when barack obama took office we were losing more than 700,000 jobs a month he got the unemployment rate down below 5%. he did a tremendous job, more than six years worth of month to month positive job growth. and now donald trump is basically taking credit for that. >> don't all politicians do that? wouldn't you do the same if you had an unemployment number and the dow where it is, wouldn't you be saying the same thing? >> what he has done along with the republican majority in congress passing tax cuts that's overwhelmingly benefit wealthy corporations and wealthy individuals. that's hurting america. we saw that the deficit is ballooning. i believe that folks are going to feel the effect of those tax cuts, especially in certain states, in the coming years. so when we get to 2020, the picture may be different from what it looks like right now. >> joe has the question for you. >> mr. secretary, let's talk about this election, november
6th. we'll get to 20, like you said after november 6th. but in texas, a democrat has not won statewide since karl rove and george bush set up shop. what about beto? what do you think his chances are? >> i think that he has the best chance since anybody in 25 years. he has run clearly the strongest campaign that anybody has run in texas in a long time. as you know, he's out raised ted cruz, he has the momentum in this race, he had a good debate the other night. so i believe he has a shot. i believe this is one of those situations that we may wake up on november 7th and where the dam just broke, where it didn't seem to make sense from the numbers coming in but something happened. you know, there was an analysis a few days ago that when you
look at the race it's 6% of republicans switched over to vote for beto, and it found that even at 6% it wasn't enough to get him over the top. i have a feeling that it could be, that defection rate could being a greater than 6% among republicans in texas for ted cruz. >> we certainly have a long way to go. there's been some conservative commentators suggesting that it's over. they sound like a lot of commentators saying three weeks out donald trump wasn't going to win. beto is changing his brand a little bit, getting tougher. let's run an ad he has up on air right now. >> ted cruz has voted take away health care for millions of american families. he's tried repeatedly to roll back protections for pre-existing conditions. at a time when nearly half of the school teachers in texas are working a second job to make ends meet ted cruz want to take our public dollars out of their
classrooms. he's vowed to deport every dreamer. >> now he's got $38 million to run those ads between now and election days. there are 19 days left. should he keep that tough tone? >> i think so. i think he should. you know, i think it's politics 101 if you take on the incumbent you need to distinguish yourself from that incumbent. the thing is, joe, you know, ted cruz is very easy to distinguish from beto o'rourke. those are the kind of ads that will make that contrast sharper and help rally what is already an energized base in texas to turn out. and, you know, people can believe in the vision that beto o'rourke is painting for the future of texas, which is a very inclusive one. also very different from ted cruz and i'm glad that beto is airing those ads. >> so, mike barnacle, there's some people that would say beto
just needs to stay completely positive and not talk about the differences between him and ted cruz. actually seems to me whether you're a republican or a democrat, you need to talk about the issues. you need to talk about how you're different than your opponent. seems to me those beto ads align up the differences perfectly. by the way, a lot of people in texas want to deport all dreamers, fine. you got ted cruz to vote for. if you think it goes against what the american dream is all about, well then maybe beto is your guy. don't you think he should stick with that sort of tough message over the next 19 days? >> yeah. beto mentioned one of the key words in this election cycle, not just in texas, i think but throughout the country and that word is fear. mr. secretary, fear. given the culture that we're all a part of, given the politics of the specific era, today's politics led by the president of
the united states, going around the country with the specific intent of dividing us rather than uniting us, in your state we have 13,000 at least 13,000 children who have been kidnapped, in effect, and are living in refugee camps for lack of a better phrase along the border. people who look exactly like you. what do you to heal this division? >> well, you know, one of the things that has hurt me has been people of different background who don't look like me and don't look like those children, who have come to their defense and have shown the heart and the compassion of this country as parents, as grandparents. as folks at a human level who understand that that's not who we ought to be, not just as americans but as people. the best thing that folks can do if they disagree with that as
joe mentioned is to go vote on november 6th, and, you know, we have an administration that has not been held to account by congress. we have an opportunity to change that in 19 days. >> how do you specifically, in speaking to people. i mean you're on the verge of maybe announcing your candidacy for the presidency. how do you specifically take the "them" and the "other" that's referenced all the time out of the equation. how do you adress that? >> one way is talk about our shared history as nation of immigrants. doesn't matter what the color of your skin s-most of us came from somewhere else. and that still has a resonance in this country. you mentioned the word fear. donald trump, if there's one thing that he's been good at in politics, it's been using fear and the fear of a changing
demographic in this country for political purposes. but there are also a lot of people out there with good hearts, that don't buy that, and they need to be, you know, drawn out as well. i think we need the vois of peop folks trying to you night that. i tell my family story, speaking to the stories of other people whose families may have come from ireland or germany or come from wherever, because i do think that that still has vote nance. >> that story is in a new book "an unlikely journey." after you have that conversation with your wife will you come back and tell us what you decided >> you'll be the first. >> mika? >> still ahead, paul ryan is talking about the threat of political tribalism, but sounds more like an outside observer. >> if there was only something paul ryan could do.
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does anybody ever say to you, you're doing an awful lot of media, and you like it? >> well, i don't like it. i like getting the point across. >> will you keep up this pace of media after the mid-terms or is this a run up to the mid-terms >> probably not. this is just for the mid-terms. we want to win. we want to get the republicans nominated and elected. we need republicans. >> president trump is not on the ballot in 19 days, but he's putting himself front and center, making an all out push for republicans, using the media. since the start of the month he has held eight rallies, participated in nine major interviews and he's done 22 press availabilities. house speaker paul ryan was asked about the tone the president sets. >> you've seen president trump's rallies. do those rallies accentuate those that unite us, the
bipartisan achievements or do they do something very successful in politic, which is sowing division in the country. do you see that in his rallies? >> sometimes. i worry about tribal identity politics as becoming the new norm. as conservatives we thought this was a left wing lewinsky thing. unfortunately, the right practices that now as well. >> you've talked about inclusive politics which tries to unify. does president trump practice those kind of politics. >> sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't. >> but i mean -- come on, honestly. >> look on economic growth and tax reform and helping veterans those are things he led us to that brought people together. >> okay. let's bring in right now "new york times" mark lebovich.
you've profiled paul ryan. i'm shocked at times he was very candidate for vice president of the united states. i don't think the answer there is sometimes. i don't think any serious observer would say that sometimes a president is divisive at rallies. his rallies are defined die divisiveness like beatles concerts were defined by screaming girls. i will say at least in that clip, he did acknowledge that recognizes have gotten just as bad as democrats in tribalism and politics of division. >> what's interesting to me about paul ryan, and his answer to that question is completely consistent with how he's answered questions like that over the last several months, it almost sounds like he's working at a think tank and always goes to words like tribalism, identity politics. almost as if he's work on a white paper somewhere, where he can talk about that in a far
more, even detached setting. the obvious followup to this is when you say sometimes, what do you mean? it's all very, very sort of cut and dry. privately and naturally sometimes not that privately paul ryan has very little use for donald trump's brand of politics. privately very offended by it. i think that's one of the reasons why he's leaving politics now. the fact is, this is consistent with what has been, i think, a fairly tame resistance, if you can even call it that at all. >> heidi, it is interesting. it is a tamed resistance. it's interesting, paul ryan talked about tribalism on the right. we have ben sasse doing the same thing and a report yesterday that somebody, who is a very aggressive trump supporter went up and tried to get a picture with ben sasse and basically said get away for me, you're bad for the country, you're bad for politic, and you're breaking the ten commandments.
it does seem that, at least, people like ben sasse are saying enough of this. i don't want to be associated with you. i don't care if you're on the right or the left. >> when it comes to paul ryan he's getting roasted for these comments because there has been as a leader so many moments throughout this presidency beginning with charlottesville, going through the fights between this president and the nfl when there were moments to speak out and, joe, according to my reporting in speaking to people close to paul ryan he always thought, you know, his strategy was he could be more effective on the inside. that there was this quiet campaign of diplomacy and persuasion to try and check this president. my question to you, mark, two years in now we're getting ready for paul ryan to leave congress what's the evidence that campaign existed at all and that it was effective? >> you know, that's sort of the classic question he gets. his answer all the time is look i do a lot behind-the-scenes.
trust me. i can talk now because my conversations with the president is confidential. great black hole -- if they are not going to tell you what they talk about, you just have to sort of go with that. it's always very unsatisfying. the only thing i can offer is he looks very uncomfortable talking about it and looks very unhappy talking about it. to say that, like, you know, tax reform has been a unifying issue. look at the polls. it's not a unifying issue at all. it's divisive as anything else with the trump presidency. you do get a sense from that and also from talk with paul ryan, that he's just sort of counting down the days until the end of his time in congress. >> mika, i will say this. at the end of the day paul ryan, mika s-a policy guy. he really is a policy guy. he's not a politician. >> i get that. >> i think he's proven that. he was hoping as speaker he could keep his head down and do
what he did as chairman of the ways and means and draw policy. unfortunately for paul it just doesn't work that way when you're speaker of the house and donald trump is president. >> i'm not sure what policy could be worth this. still ahead, lots of new reporting concerning the russia probe after helping steer the white house investigation. don mcgahn has left the trump administration. and deputy attorney general rod rosenstein could draw the ire of president trump after a staunch defense of the russian inquiry. "morning joe" will be right back. from the very beginning ...
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hunt. rosenstein told the journal, quote, i tried very hard to ignore media speculation about what we're doing and focus, instead, on what we're actually doing. we sit down every day and we work towards the goals of the department and we try to ignore the inevitable attention in the media. he also acknowledged the attacks on the probe from some conservatives and republicans saying people are entitled to be frustrated. i can accept that, but at the end of the day, the public will have confidence that the cases we brought were warranted by the evidence and it was an appropriate use of resources. joe, what do you think? >> well, i think that we've seen this extraordinary development of rod rosenstein since he first burst onto the scene as a person that trump said justified the firing of james comey with this letter. mark lebowitz, it seems mark
rosenstein has moorefed from a barney fife figure to a joe friday. just the facts. you don't like what i'm doing, i really don't give-a-damn. i'm going to keep my head down, we're going to keep doing the job and i'm not going to be intimidated by this president, by hacks in congress or by anybody else. its been, it has been quite a transformation. >> well, yeah, you also have to realize that this job and the role that he is in requires so much politics, it requires politics in dealing with congress and basically playing defense was a pretty big portion with the republican congress to get the probe done. you obviously have to work the president. there is obviously, i mean a couple weeks ago, we were talking about, is he going to keep his job or not because of the story of him possibly talking about taping conversations with the president. so, obviously, his relationship with the president is very fraught. his relationship, you know, within the justice department is very fraught.
obviously, his own boss, jeff sessions, has his own you know huge, you know, bag of complications with the president and with the congress, if general. so i mean, when you get down to it, it does seem that his eye is very much on the bahama and in this case the ball is the mueller probe. it sound like he has done a great deal both privately and each now publicly to protect that. but there are a lot of levels to what he has to worry about all day. >> there are a lot of levels. mike. we have no idea what so many of those levels are. just like we have no idea what bob mueller is in the middle of right now. we are still -- everybody is just guessing what's going on behind the scenes. he could have a report that cripples the presidency or he could have a report that's much ado about nothing. we don't know. >> well, yeah, joe, we don't know. of course the mueller investigation has gone silent during the course of this election and run-up to election day. we will soon know more than we
know now shortly after the election, i assume. one thing we do know and have always known, it's so obvious, is the one thing in washington that does work is robert mueller's investigation. they work hard, they work diligently. they have talked to a bunch of people, including paul manafort, multiple hours, including several ought people who have copped to a guilty plea for several hours. so we don't know what they've talked about. we will learn about that. mueller has worked hard continuously to little notoriety. >> still ahead, president trump challenges reporters of what they don't know about the disappearance of jamal khashoggi and that's kind of the point. >> we don't know. >> right, and the world doesn't know, but it certainly seems the one thing we know, mika, donald trump and the secretary of state are conspireing with the saudis
to try to keep it that way. >> we'll talk about the trump administration's latest offense, amid-allegations the kingdom assassinated a columnist not in riyadh, but if virginia. >> in virginia. >> plus we have new poll numbers to pick through for the mid-terms, including what you kind of hangover the supreme court is having over the electric. >> it's a fox news poll, mika, and a lot of people may be surprised at the results. >> "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be rigt back that's why we designed capital one cafes. you can get savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. and one of america's best savings rates. to top it off, you can open one from anywhere in 5 minutes. this isn't a typical bank. this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet? you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed? let's say it in a really low voice. carl?
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welcome back to "morning joe." still with us. we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle, nbc news national reporter heidi pryzbilla and the president on the council of foreign relations, richard haase, we'll begin on the latest of the disappearance of washington post columnist jamal khashoggi. yesterday, the turkish government leaked the gruesome details from what it says is an audio recording of cash oak's torture and murder at the hands of what it claims was a 15-member saudi hit squad, including what role the saudi consul may have played in all this the saudi consul suddenly left turkey on tuesday and turkish investigators searched his residence yesterday, more than two weeks after the october 2nd incident. after turkey leaked the gruesome details, which they said were from a recording of khashoggi's
murder, president trump was asked about it yesterday at the white house. yesterday at the white house. . >> we have asked for it, if it exists, we have asked for it. we've asked for it, if it exists. >> are you surprised they haven't turned it over? >> no, i'm not sure yet that it exists. him possibly does. i hope we're going to be on the better side of the equation. you know we need saudi arabia in terms of a fight against all of the terrorism. everything that's happening in iran and other places. i'm not giving cover at all. with that being said, saudi arabia has been a very important allie of ours in the middle east. we are stopping iran. we are not trying to stop, we're stopping iran and they are an allie. we have other very good allies in the middle east. if you look at taush u saudi arabia, they're an allie and a tremendous purchaser of not only military equipment but other things.
so they're an important allie. >> a man lived across the river in virginia. why not send the fbi in to figure all this out? >> well, he wasn't a citizen of the country for one thing. you don't know whether or not we have, do you? do you know whether or not we've sent the fbi? >> have you sent the fbi? >> i'm not going to tell you. why would i tell new. >> it's a shameful performance because the whole world is watching, donald. that's why you should tell him. the whole world is watching and they're listening to you and it seems that you are for sale. your administration is for sale. your white house is for seam the russians, oh, what your sons say they give lots of money. so vladimir putin can say and do whatever he wants. he can assassinate journalists. you came on our show three years ago you defend it. you say at least he's a strong leader. why? because as your sons say, you
make all of this money from russia, all these russians, they spend money, make you a richer guy while you make america poorer morally. and the saudis, i know we brought up a couple days ago that you made lots of money from saudi arabia that bother you. so then you tweeted it was fake news what we were saying that we were lying. so you know what i'm going to do? boy, you busted me, i got it from a source. this is embarrassing. i got the information that the saudis have helped to make you richer from a source that's not a very good source. in fact, it's ha ready to actually believe anything that comes from this source. i mean, it's a constant stream of steady lies. i will admit, very embarrassed. my source for saying that you, donald, made millions and
millions of dollars off the saudis came from this source right here. lets play the tape. i am ashamed. ashamed. ashamed. >> saudi arabia, and i get along great with all of them. they got apartments from me. they spend 40 million, 50 million, am i supposed to dislike them? i like them very much. >> i like saudi arabians, 'are in this building. >> i like the saudis, they're very nice, i make lots of.from them, they buy all sorts of my stuff, all kind of toys from trump. they pay me millions and hundreds of millions. >> so i'm writing this down. let's see. i like the saudis, they make me rich. they give me 40 million, 50 million. they buy toys from trump. hundreds of millions of dollars, mika, so donald trump has told the world, told them during the campaign and we still have videotape. i know he doesn't believe we have feeds from his twitter
feed, we do. >> quite a source. >> donald trump tells people during the campaign that he makes hundreds of millions from the saudis. so he likes them. >> yeah. >> so here we have this gruesome spectacle and, my god, what's not -- your dad, obviously, you a ran u.s. foreign policy. your dad was one of the foremost thinkers in american foreign policy. what would he be saying right now? >> my god. >> how humiliated would he be at what this administration is doing? >> he would be staggered. you know, it's one thing when the most powerful country in the world has no leverage over its adversaries. we talked for months how the chinese continue to benefit from america's moral impotence. >> that's what it is. >> saudi arabia is supposed to be our allie. this despite the fact that the number 15 keeps coming between
american presidents and their so-called friends. first, it was the 15 saudi citizens who murdered 3,000 americans on september 11th. now, the 15 members of the saudi death squad that brutally tortured and murdered a washington post columnist and virginia resident. >> you are exactly right. virginia resident that donald trump says shouldn't be afforded american protection. >> so we're sitting here looking at this, we're wondering what our response is going to be. we are not surprised at the president's pathetic response. but the united states secretary of state seemed to conspire with saudis to keep facts from congress from the american people and the civilized world. about this assassination and that is beneath contempt. to further compromise the white house the saudis seem to bribe trump to assist if u.s. efforts in syria. well, that blood money will not
distract from the saudi 15s deadly deeds from trump's claims during the campaign that he personally profited from saudis to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars or from america's morally adrift foreign policy in the age of trump and at a time when people meekly march in lock step behind a morally disabled president. i don't want how you do it. it's appalling. >> it is appalling. womanly, you know, mika, i haven't thought about the 15 saudis that killed of 3,000 americans on september 11th. now we have seen saudis. it's a great parallel mika made there. you wonder how long can the occupation turn a blind eye to this country when they put people in charge to do the gruesome things they do. we have an american president that sits there and actually seems to be conspireing with him. >> well, it's one thing to stand by an allie. it's something else completely
to sit there and b to give the benefit of the doubt when so many of the facts report to all the media reporting is saying, richard, and the turkish government is saying which is jamal khashoggi is murdered remember we show you it is clear that he was murdered and mbs was behind it. given this windup from the president and the defense of the crown prince, what will he do this en? what will he say then? >> clearly, he was murdered. it's not 100% sure we will be able to say the crown prince is behind it. it may be 99% sure. we may not have the express fingerprints on it. >> that could give the president some excuse if he wants to say it's still not clear. look. this is the tammy wynette foreign policy, they will stand by their men.
what is so inconsistent in this is that they can talking a great allie, essentially vietnam of the modern middle east. the pressure that divided the arab world, kidnapped the prime minister of lebanon. never had any positive influence on the palestinians as best we can see, now committed murder. so it's not clear what return we are particularly getting on investment. mika was talking about her dad, dr. brezinski. what this teams seems to me in so many ways reminiscent of is what happened to iran in the 1970s. there we had an allie headed by this figure the shaw. the allie was increasingly going off the rails. the carter administration was suggestling with. that i think we have a version, not exact, important allie, which at times hasn't been acting like an allie, a difficult flawed leader who's
impulsive, reckless, bad for us and saudi arabia the administration is caught, they're worried if they ditch him, show any daylight between him and then that something could be worse. >> that is where tray they are. they're caught. they're going to try to brazen this out. they prefer if you will the devil they know, to the uncertainty of what they don't, each though we are going to pay an enormous moral price. each though he is as flawed as he clearly is. >> you cover capitol hill, have you marco rubio on sunday saying if the president doesn't do anything, we l. lindsey graham said the same, bob corker, sort of set up red flares in the press saying we're not getting the intelligence sharing we should get through this. what is the reaction from your point of view? >> capitol hill has been waiting to see what pompeo did on this trip. he went over there, and the big tell here in terms of this
administration allowing saudi arabia to have plausible deniably is the fact that pompeo went over there, didn't demand to see that tape, he's in the neighborhood. it's being reported by all main stream media as he's going to come back and allow the saudis to say the crown prince likely didn't know about it. so congress, i don't know that congress is going to let this go. the senate foreign relations committee sent a powerful letter bipartisan across the board from the ranking member and the chairman the first time that they've tried to trigger the magnitsky legislation which essentially says, hey, administration, you've got 120 days for this investigation for to you make a determination whether there was a gross violation of human rights here and to report back and tant you must impose sanctions. now i talked to a senate foreign relations senior staffer last night. they said it's possible the administration could then ignore. that he said, quote, but it would be pretty reprehensible
and a new low. coming up on "morning joe" the mid-terms are entering the home stretch and we've got new numbers to break down straight ahead. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. ith a check on the forecast. bill . >> all eyes are on texas, it's all flowing through the rivers into the dam system. it's too many. the dams continue control it. some are opening up the flood gates. it's flowing down stream. they still expect lake travis outside of austin. it's already the sixth highest ever recorded. it's going to go up another five to ten feet. tant it will flood hundreds of homes, so people have been evacuated. they say the water will be so deep, it will be up to the second level on some of those homes, too. so the destruction and devastation from the texas flooding is still ongoing. let's go into the math, we'll show you here, we have san
antonio over the areas around austin, waco, scattered showers the steadier rains are out there throughout dallas. we don't get to a dry pattern until sunday. so we still have flash flood watches for the san antonio area to austin. back up to san angelo. so the video we showed you is around austin. so all of the water that falls here flows this way into that system. so that's the problem. it's a mathematical problem. too much water coming in, they can't get rid of it fast enough. so here's the forecast. this blue shows you one, up to possibly two inches of rain in that general area we showed you that is already flooding. the other story, it feels like winter in the northeast. they're making know. i know in killington, we're thinking about it. with temperatures like this, 24, 34, you know at the top of the mountains, it's cold enough to make the snow. d.c. is not as bad in the mid-40s. it's a really cooled morning from buffalo to detroit to
pittsburgh. at least this afternoon, with sunshine, we'll warm it back up at least into the 40s, upper 40s. d.c. at 57. we will start to see some wet weather again in the areas of the south. anyone waking up with us early on the west coast. have you some of the best weather by far and that continues through the upcoming weekend. new york city is one of those places seeing the coldest morning of the season. at least it's sunny. it makes you feel a little better when you are looking out the window. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. "morning j. we'll be right back.
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joining us now in new york, national editor of the cook political report amy walter and national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc stephen kornacki. the book "the red and the blue" it's such a great book. >> homily cow. >> you knead to put it on the back right there. the new blurb. right. just some noises of approval. let's look at tennessee first,
we mention it coming in, if we put that pool up here, guys the tennessee senate poll. marsha blackburn in a statistic tie with phil bredesen, 47-44 is her lead there. steve i mentioned there was a "new york times" poll a few days ago, last week that had a spread of 14 points for blackburn. what's going on in tennessee? >> the time link in that poll is particularly long. we seen four polls basically this month in tennessee. blackburn by five, blackburn by eight. blackburn by 3. it's tough to say you take the 14 and the three and say something major has happened or say i think over the summer is we seen bredesen's popularity was trumping his party label and since we are in, kavanaugh, maybe that was the event inevitable. i think we have seen this trend toward what you call political gravity asserting itself.
bredesen would love to see it 14-3, it's still tennessee. >> amy, this was never a 14-point race, sometimes those polls just happen, you go into the field. you get a certain as you know better than anybody, but this was never a 14-point race, bredesen one of the post-popular governors even retired governors if all of america. this guy is sitting in the 60s. chances are good this one will be tight to the end. right? >> it could be, but i do agree with what steve is saying, it seems like in so many senate races, democrats may have a shot to pick off some of these very red states either because they had a fantastic candidate or in a place like arizona where it looks like maybe the republicans would get into a really nasty primary fight, that didn't happen and what we're seeing is the political gravity start to come into play here that red states are behaving like red
states and blue states are behaving like blue states. it seems like where we are right now, two weeks before the election the senate map and house map both seem to be closing in, which is the ceiling now for democratic gains seems to be dropping and you're right, i don't know if this is about this is kavanaugh that pushed this up or whether this was going to happen anyway, coming into okay. but i do think that we are looking at a map now for democrats that's looking a lot tougher in the senate, which it most likely was always going to be unless something did happen. >> something definitely did happen for democrats in north dakota. i'm curious what you think about heidi heitcamp on the defense she used sexual assault survivors in her campaign ads without getting their permission. i'm wondering if that's a race the democrats should write off at this point in. >> yeah, it looks like we have
been saying north dakota the single tough seat to hold. the polling is dated we have seen, but right before the kavanaugh vote already showed a double digit deficit for height catch. so if you think the politics of vogt against kavanaugh might cut against her ultimately in north dakota. >> that might have hurt her since this new controversy would make that worse. i think the story for the senate, there is a lot of different ways to carve up the math and look at it. if you want the democrats to be in the game to have a chance to take the senate theoretically, they have to win one of three at a bake little. it's either north dakota or tennessee or texas. if you can win one of those, can you can be in the game to potentially put the math together. if you get wiped out in those three, i really don't see it. and north dakota already was not looking good for them. >> that's right. right now, i'm sure democrats were keeping their eyes on tennessee, despite the latest
round of polling. let's go to florida. it's all going to come down to voter turnout in the state of florida. >> yeah, that race will never break. what we know in florida is whatever the mood is in the country at that moment, can you feel a breeze where one party is past the advantage. that's where i think you will see the race tip at the very end. im ahead on "morning i don't," it's likely been decades since the word fascism has been thrown around with such frequency as it is today. our getting guest describes it as the politics of us and them. but how much is it really taking root in america? that conversation is next on "morning joe." that conversation is next on "morning joe." - [narrator] it's a difficult conversation,
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dignity. and, you know, the allegations that are made so far, i don't know yet are not inconsistent with the way the kingdom would act. so i'm very worried that the president seems to have a love affair with autocrats. either he doesn't know what he's doing or he has an absolutely convoluted notion of what allows america to lead the world. >> that's former vice president joe biden this morning on saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman and president trump's hesitation to challenge the leader of the alleged murder of jamal khashoggi. president trump clearly has a soft spot for heavy handed rulers with names like putin, kim jong-un and saudi crime prince mbs coming to mind. joining us now, yale professor jason stanley. he has been studying fascist
propaganda for the past decade. his new book entitled "how fascism work" it's a breakdown of fascist ideology and its prominence on the global stage. welcome to the show. good to have you on board this morning. >> thank you very much. >> so what are we seeing right now here with rough and the occupation of america. you have people like former secretary of state madeleine albright pointedly saying this is how it begins. how would you see it? >> well, my work is about fascist politics and fascist propaganda. i don't think there is any doubt we are seeing fascist tactics being employed. hyper nationalism. power, loyalty, fear of the other. i explained fascism to my 3-year-old as in fascism, there is one big daddy and i see where i think we are seeing that kind of politics all across the world
and here in the occupation as well. >> well, we certainly aren't seeing, of course a move towards fascism. yet, as far as the government goes here, but there is no doubt that your one big daddy theory for 3-year-olds is breaking out across central europe. you look at the elections in brazil. you look at what's happening with vladimir putin, the philippines. boy, there are so many hot spots across the globe where at least the tactics of fascism are certainly getting to play. >> they're definitely getting purchased. i think you see fascist politics. you create fear about the other. you say socialism and communism are taking over and we have to respond with a strong hand. they will take your property. you raise fear about loss of tradition and loss of heartland real values and we're seeing that. you talk about feminism and how
feminism is threatening the family and gay riepts so we have anti-gay movements spreading all across the countries as emupgsed. >> know, i'm drawing no analogies between the third reich and the current president. so i want everybody blocking today that want to lift this clip. i want them to know they're being as intellectually dishonest as donald trump. i do want to talk about when you talk about cashism, talk about the big lie, talk about the way that fascist leaders or autocrat versus actually devalued truth it is chilling. you can go back and find critics of adolph hitler from 38, 39, 41, talking about and orwell wrote about it later in fiction. talking about how the truth was a lie and the lie was a truth. the truth became so devalued that soon enough people if germany couldn't tell the
difference. >> right a democratic culture is one that reflects truth. democracy is based on true values, liberty and evaluate. nobody thinks the people of north korea are free because they have been lied to. they don't tow what they are doing. they have been lied to equality means you can speak truth to power. fascism is ideology based on loyalty, power and fear of the other. so you have to smash truths so no one can speak truth to power. there so, jason, in this country, we have the foundations incorporate into what is called the constitution of the united states. but today, we are surrounded by twitter and smartphones and the pace of the culture is extraordinary. we have four, five, news cycles per day. does this attention span shortening, do you think it adds to the ease with which fascism can slowly creep into the culture in. >> yeah, i think it's an old
tactic to attack the main stream press. so there is no youthful reality on which to base our shared citizenship. so when we can just pick and choose among any news stream that fits our proclivitieprocli can just think that reality is, in fact, vacuous and it's our team versus your team. when it's your team versus my team, we don't look for truth and who has the best show and who is on my team. >> mika mentioned secretary albright. a metaphor she likes to use about farriscism, if you pluck chicken one at a time, nobody notices. what are the first feathers to be plucked? what are the initial warning signs? >> the initial warning signs are attacking the main stream media, attacking truth so conspiracy
theories, birther-ism, a way you attaing the main stream media. you say the main stream media is controlled by some shady forces and you can them because they're not reporting on the conspiracy theory and they give it validity. another staff that hannah talks about is loyalty to party of parties. what she means is loyal. when politicians start showing loyalty to their own party over loyalty to a multi--party system. we need libertarians, social conservatives. we need everybody. because different problems have different solutions. when you have one party saying, no, we just want to crush the other party. we want to make it us. then you will have loyalty to party over multi-party systems. then you leave yourself vulnerable to the final stage, which is the party just becomes the party of the leader. >> so, jason, aren't we actually
one step beyond that where you actually don't have loyalty to a party? you don't have loyalty to republican ideas. you don't have loyalty to conservative ideas that have been the foundation of that porte for a generation. actually the loyalty supersedes the party. the loyalty is to the man, to the big daddy as you say. >> well, i will leave it to those who follow the details of the united states to make that judgment. but that is what history tells us. we need all of us, regardless of our political ideologies, need to support libertarians, democratic socialists, labor unions, because we need that argument. >> that argument is the life blood of democracy. when people stop that, then, of course, what they're going to do is they're going to say, this is my party. this is my team. i don't care about the argument and the discussion. i just care about loyalty. and fascist ideology is about power, loyalty and fear of the other. >> loyalty oaths, the book.
"how fascism works" is out now. jason stanley, thank you, very, very much. now to the story a caravan of migrants fleeing the country and growing north has grown to 4,000 people the mexican government sent 500 federal police to its border with guatemala in anticipation of the caravan's arrival. according to u.s. documents obtained by u.s. news, border protection is tracking the caravan as the migrants make their way north towards the u.s.-mexico border. >> you know, it's not surprising something leak this would be used by the president to distract from the fact that he's embracing a regime that cavs off the arms the fingers, the head of a washington post journalist. but predictably, on queue, that's what he's done. >> president trump has just tweeted writing i'm watching the democrat party led because they won't open the borders and existing weak laws, assault on
our country by guatemala, honduras and el salvador, whose leaders are doing little to stop this large flow of people, including many criminals from entering mexico to u.s. in addition to stopping all payments to these countries, which seem to have almost no control over their population, i must, in the strongest terms, ask mexico to stop this onslaught -- >> wait, wait, mike barnical, wait. >> he's going to declare war now. he's going to call up the u.s. military and close our southern border that's what he's saying. >> he is going to stop payments -- >> that's an assault. >> -- to guatemala, but he's going to embrace thugs and murders from saudi arabia. is that donald trump's -- >> math. >> -- morality. is that his math in. >> joe, we were talking about the seeds of fascism a couple minutes ago. the president's tweet this morning incorporates a lot of
what we were talking about. >> attacking the others. >> fear of the other. crime, immigrants, they're coming to take your country from you. why can't anybody help us stop this? you know put it on mexico to stop it. they're coming into a country where we now have as referred to earlier, 13,000 children held along the texas border in refugee catches, basically. >> in cages. >> so this is -- i mean, we talk about it. as we talk about it the reality of it pops up on the screen. it's incredibility. donald trump, he fears two-year-old children from gautd mala than what saudi arabians are doing to washington post journalists. >> but he's not a baby. the support from college hoops coach bobby knight twurth 2016 campaign. well, it looks like senator joe manchin is bringing in nick saban off the bench. we'll show you. the west virginia draft's new ad just ahead on "morning joe." aftd just ahead on "morning joe."
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joining us now is actor daniel radcliffe who co-stars in a new broadway play "the life span of a fact." it's based on a true story of an essay written about the suicide of a los vegas teenager a determined young fact-checker assigned to fact check the peace and the sen-year debate it ignited. it's great to have you on the show this morning. >> willie and i are kind of confused. >> why in. >> i gave up nfl football for english premier soccer. a big live pool fan. he's gone the other way. you are all about the nfl? >> i am. yeah. it really does. i think i still follow english football a bit, but not with nearly the sort of veracity that i do american football. i don't know why, i got when i
was doing a musical over here actually a few years ago, someone introduced me to the world of like nfl fantasy. >> right. >> so i went to the league, i was like, okay. >> is it a fantasy football league in. >> two, one of which i run. >> who is your first pick in in there first pick this years ago i had the 13th pick in the lead. i had davontae freeman. it didn't go great for me, i will persevere. >> you are a giants' fan, too? >> sorry. >> well, it's tough. >> i'm trying to understand you. >> i know, i do, i'm glad that i confused you. >> i am totally confused. >> i spent a lot of time in new york and i do, i love it here, i love a lot of things about the culture and football is definitely a massive part of the culture over here. >> it really is, so the life span of a fact really couldn't be more timely. >> yes. >> tell us about the play and
why you decided to get involved? >> yeah, the play, itself, as you said in the intro, in the reality there was a young man who committed suicide and an essay was written about that and a guy was sent to fact check that essay as before it was published in a magazine. and i play that fact-checker who is sent to check the work of an author who is not normally used to being held to journalistic standards of accuracy and i might use poetic license or you know use a word that is more lyrical but actually a lot less true or factually accurate to my mind. and so it's about the debate between us and about the you know why, although facts can be a lot dryer sounding and less salacious, when they have to be as my character says the final measure of what is true. and so, although we're not talking about trump or you know fake news or kellyanne conway or
any of those things, you can't mention the words fact and truth now without it seeming political. so we're sort of having the debate without it being overtly a political play. yeah. >> i love it. >> you have done so much on broadway. i'm always interested about the choices you made. what was it about this one that you droo you in? >> we partially leak the debate going on, i felt it was really interesting and something i hadn't thought about that much, not in those terms. and, yeah, i just, it was also i should say it's a comedy and it's very funny and the dialogue is very, very snappy and great. so that was a part of it. i wanted to do a new play for a long time. this wasn't the main reason i did it. i will say you know when you get a copy of a play, it says at the beginning first performed by so and so and so and son at this place. i was kind of going oh i want to have that one day so with this one i'll get. >> it's the first time you've
done that? in there the first time i've done a new play. >> but the sacrifice for you personally is going to be great. two performances every sunday? >> two performances every sunday. >> and that means? >> no football, or very limited football. it is the show is about one-and-a-half hours on, maybe a little bit more with no intermission and so, you know, i could probably see quite a lot of the 4:00 games. >> so when we go there and i turn to mika and say, doesn't it seem like he's rushing his line in. >> yeah the giants are actually a comeback. >> there are some pauses near the end ohrt play which are supposed to be a certain length of time, probably being we can cut them down. we have to stretch that out. >> fantastic. >> what do you get out of doing broadway? why is that for you as an artist, why is that important in. >> i think doing theater in general as an actor, there is something, actors are all neurotic and insecure in some ways.
i'd like to think that something that gives you an amazing accomplishment of doing theater and do a job without an editor or that director there every night or every moment to guide you through it. you know, that's something kind of reassuring can you do it under those circumstances. it's scary in a way, i'm sure, you go through a live show every day, i'm sure it's not as terrifying. >> we are terrified. >> we wake up in about three minutes. >> i would be. i did the "today" show, how are you all so calm? this is terrifying? . >> yes, it's terrifying. it is, yeah, i just, there is a hume rush to us. >> who inspires you? >> people like some of the people that really inspire me actually are not the same the two actors currently do amazing human beings as well as being great actors. i melda storm, all these people that taught me you could be both an incredibly intense, good
actor but also enjoy your job and be nice to people and you know those were the people that i sort of was always drawn to. >> you can do that? >> i like it. i know that. >> note to come on, joe. write it down in your flip phone -- >> it doesn't have a memo -- >> is that a real flip phone? >> here's the deal. so i'm trying to get off of this. >> which means i answer everything. >> exactly. >> trying to move to this. because i think this makes us all dumber. >> so great for him. >> in the transition, you're doing both phones? >> everything, yes. >> okay, cool. >> what else is new? >> i agree. i did a play called "privacy" a couple years ago which also terrified me about my phone. i do agree with the aspiration. >> unfortunately, it is an aspiration. is there an actor, following up on mika's question, is there an actor that you just see doing things and you just hate? you're like, oh, my god -- >> no, you can't ask him that.
>> because what i'm saying, they're so good, you're like, damn, i wish i could do that? >> oh, one of -- one of my very good friends -- it's not somebody that i hate. he's somebody i had a moment of going, like, oh, man, seriously? i can't -- i don't think i should tell you just in case -- but i said to him one day, like, you know, when you get nervous before a big scene or something? he's like, no, not really. like, you never get nervous? no. >> that is annoying. >> if i was friends with christopher walken, i would be telling you that. that would be -- >> let me ask you. willie's kids are younger than mine. and i always tell them, hey, you need, you know, to get your kids to watch star wars. get your kids to -- my kids and i saw all the trilogies. but we were just talking off camera. i've seen every harry potter
now. 47 times. except for the third one. the prisoner of asbain. which i've seen more times than the lion king. >> just had the 20th anniversary of the first book and now you have a generation -- my son's 9 so he wasn't around when the book was first written. kids race through the books and race through the movies. what is it like to have kids who weren't born when the first one was coming out, they say you taught me to dream, taught me to imagine? >> it's bizarre because you always have a moment, how did you see them? dvd? you always have this sort of strange -- it is strange but it's also lovely when somebody comes up and says, like, you were a huge part of my childhood. there are things that was a huge part of my childhood. for me, the simpsons was a massive thing. the idea i could occupy a
similar place in someone else's life is just so crazy and wonderful. yes, i'm always saying i'm incredibly lucky to have got famous or -- with harry potter, like, through that, because it is a genuinely believed thing. >> it's funny because there was a young girl here, as you were coming in, she was so excited to meet you. >> oh, good, i haven't met her. >> you know, when i met the brady bunch and they had all grown up, i was like -- i know. i don't want to -- she doesn't want to see you grown up. how old are you? >> 29. >> oh, no. she wants to remember you as a child. >> no, she doesn't -- >> i do have a thing sometimes where i meet kids now and like their parents will bring them up to me and -- >> they'll cry. >> not crying so much, just disbelieving. the kids will be like, no, it's not. >> daniel radcliffe, she knew who you were right away, not
and that can lower your cost now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? joe and i grew up together in west virginia. he never forgets where he came from. he loves our state. he's dedicated his whole life to west virginia. i swear no one loves the people of west virginia than joe manchin. >> i don't have a better friend or know a better person. >> that is a strong lineup of west virginia heroes. time for final thoughts. mika, was really moved by -- you talking about the number 15, how it lines up with saudi arabia, america. >> it's hard to watch really the devolving of our strategic alliances, our relationships, our stature in the world. this president finds a way to surprise us even more every day
with just how bad he can be at foreign policy. again, you have a voice. you can vote. in 19 days. >> mike barnicle, donald trump doesn't see a threat, a saudi sheikh that carves off the heads of "washington post" journalists but he does fear 2-year-old guatemalan babies. >> that's it, he fears children in trucks coming from honduras and guatemala and what they might do to the country, in his thinking, more than he fears what it does to this country when he erodes the fabric of the country by aligning himself with a potential accessory to murder, the crown prince of saudi arabia. >> heidi, final thoughts? >> seems that his administration, after mike pompeo's trip, is going to allow the crown prince to deny any knowledge of what happened to mr. khashoggi and my question remains, what is it about the timing, what was khashoggi working on that led to this at this time? >> all right. that does it for us this
morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika, thanks, joe. good morning, everyone, i'm stephanie ruhle. starting with the party of one. day after insisting he not be to blame if the republicans lose the house, president trump continues his public campaign blitz, flooding the media zone with some of the greatest hits. >> so when you look at the border, how bad it is, that's because the democrats want it to be bad. we have the dumbest laws because of the democrats. democrats want to vote for the military. they don't like the military. they don't like law enforcement. >> they're very negative in the military. they're very negative on law enforcement and the border. i don't see how they win elections that way. >> the president making it clear he is talking for one -- well, for more than one. >> are you going to keep up this pace of media after the midterms? >> this is just for the midmaterimidterm