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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  October 19, 2018 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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officially the largest jackpot in american history. that closes out the hour for me. look for me on twitte twitter @chrisjansing. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington, d.c. as condemnations pour in from around the world over the brutal murder of a "washington post" columnist and u.s. resident, the american president celebrates the violent assault of a reporter at the hands of montana republican greg gianforte. >> greg is smart. and never wrestle him. you understand that? never. any guy that can do a body slam, he's my kind of -- i had heard he bodyslammed a reporter. i said oh, this is terrible. he's going to lose the election. then i said i know montana pretty well. i think it might help him.
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and it did. >> wow. and here's how the crew working with fox news anchor bret baier described the teak that reporter. gianforte grabbed jacobs by the neck with both hands and slammed him into the ground behind him. we watched in disbelief as gianforte then began punching the reporter. he began yelling something to the effect of, i'm sick and tired of this. the reporter works for the guardian and said to celebrate an attack on a journalist who is simply doing his job is an attack on the first amendment by someone who has taken an old to defend it. in the aftermath of the murder of jamal khashoggi it runs the risk of inviting other attacks on journalists here and around the world. the correspondents association weighed in saying all americans should recoil from the president's praise for a violent assault on a reporter doing his constitutional the protected job.
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here to discuss the day's developments, from "the new york times," mike schmidt, matt miller, former chief spokesman at the justice department, jennifer rubin, "washington post" opinion writer and doug thornell, former senior adviser to the dnc. matt miller, there's such fatigue to all of the obliterating of norms and niceties and customs, but there's a tone deafness to this one. this isn't just a story about the obliteration of norms and what presidents normally do when a journalist is murdered abroad. this is about being oblivious to the moment in which his white house finds itself. his white house right now is fielding questions about what our intelligence agencies had collected about the saudis' plan to detain jamal khashoggi and the president has a shifting story at the moment about his views on all of that. >> it's a despicable thing for a president of the united states to say at any time it's an especially despicable thing for him to say at this time.
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as you point out when it seems one of our allies has dismembered a member of the press in a consulate, and our president's administration is seeming to help them cover tup. or at least is giving them the time and space to cover it up. it also is such a hypocritical thing for donald trump to say. he's run as a law and order president. he talks about law and order all the time. gianforte is a criminal. it was a criminal act. he pled guilty to that crime. he lied about it and only admitted it after the fox producer gave her account and after the reporter himself ben jacobs released the audiotape that shows he was actually beaten up by this congressman. but it goes back to something donald trump has done for a long time. you only have to go back to his rallies during the campaign when he was saying to beat the hell out of protesters and he'd pay the legal bills. their legal bills if they did. he just has -- this isn't a new thing. he has no respect not just for norms but for the free press, for anyone who is not a is thor of him. he is hostile to any of these
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values that are long-held american traditions. >> jennifer rubin, i looked at what president obama said and did when james foley was murdered. george bush's remarks when danny pearl died. and it's instructive whenever we wonder or despair over the fact we've gone so far from who we were, not 50 years ago. but four, eight, ten years ago. let's watch. talk about it on the other side. >> those who would engage in criminal barbaric acts need to know that these crimes only hurt their cause. and only deepen the resolve of the united states of america to rid the world of these agents of terror. may god bless daniel pearl. >> the world is shaped by people like jim foley and the overwhelming majority of
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humanity who are appalled by those who killed him. the united states of america will continue to do what we must do to protect our people. we will be vigilant, and we will be relentless. when people harm americans anywhere, we do what's necessary to see that justice is done. >> so just take that and compare it to -- iri riveting thing about trump's report last night is he acted out the body slam. >> it's not a matter of being a republican or democrat. it's about being a person who is charged with protecting the american people, protecting our values and norms. and here he is encouraging two-bit thuggery, not only around the world but here at home. and i think you're right, matt. it's not only a tone deafness but a complete failure of leadership. he does not understand what his role is. and i've got to say, i'm a little surprised today i haven't heard more from the democrats.
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yes, we're in a campaign. yes, they want to talk about health care and other things, but where is the solid voice of condemnation from the democrats? i've learned to expect nothing from the republicans. that we know. but democrats come on. where are you guys? >> let me add chuck schumer was on "morning joe" saying there's too much political correctness out there. i'm sure it wasn't in the context of this incident, but where are the democrats? >> well, i mean, look, i think, to your point, i am surprised that republicans haven't said more because republicans have been saying for the last month or so they've been calling democrats an angry mob that we're trying to incite violence, that we've sort of hurt the civility in politics. and now you turn around and you've got the president, the leader of the party saying these types of things. and republicans haven't said anything. >> the republicans aren't going to say anything because they bought this act. they're done. they're done. and you've got someone here who is one of the strongest voices on everything that's wrong with
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that. they're not going to condemn this conduct. they're in on it. >> i just want to point out that you can't have it both ways with them where they're now lecturing -- >> i think democrats have been standing up for a range of issues, particularly freedom of the press. they've been calling out donald trump for all of the things he said about basically the media being the enemy of people. any enemy of this country. this is not just a -- i hate the fact that this is a democratic problem. this is a problem -- >> we're acknowledging it's a republican problem. we're looking for the democrats to solve it. donald trump was just asked if he regrets anything about those comments. he does not, surprise, surprise. let's watch. >> do you regret bringing up last night at your rally the assault on a reporter by a congressman. >> no, no, not at all. it was a different world. that was a different league, a difference world. just a great guy and he's -- you
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know greg very well, right. it was -- that was a tremendous success last night in montana, and greg is a tremendous person. and he's a tough cookie. and i'll stay with that. >> so you interviewed the president yesterday before he headed to montana for that rally. this is sort of classic trump that we've all become accustomed to. doubling down. >> it's hard not to see this as part of a larger thing he's trying to do. the biggest thorns in his side are the press and mueller. what is he trying to do? he tries to delegitimize both of them. undermine both of them. if he's going to be successful and he building believes that t is a problem, he has to continue to undermine both of them. and that's when he goes out and does that. i don't know if it's that calculated but it plays right into that because he believes public opinion will determine whether he gets into real trouble if the democrats take control. >> i want to ask about your interview. he talked to you about khashoggi
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and you guys reported a subtle shift from rogue killers did it to maybe my guy in saudi arabia is in trouble. >> yeah, but the president not wanting to go any further than that. this is a president who makes -- >> why not? >> he makes snap judgments on a lot of things. will say a lot of things very quickly. but similar to how he deals with russia and he's being very calculated here. he doesn't want to go any further than he has to. he's very disciplined about his messaging on this. and that's just something to take note of. >> he usually does when he thinks he's in trouble. the only time he exercises caution is when he thinks he's in trouble. >> do you think there are concerns about what jared kushner was talking to mbs about in the early days of this crisis? >> i don't think in donald trump's mind but to michael's point about delegitimizing, that's why you've seen this disgust, despicable campaign to try to call jamal a terrorist or a muslim brotherhood person, as if, frankly, any view justifies
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this horrendous act. but to misrepresent his views entirely, that's -- >> let me read to our viewers a pie piece from that. conservative commentators are mounting a whispering campaign against khashoggi that is designed to protect president trump from criticism of his handling of the alleged murder by operatives of saudi arabia and to support trump's continued aversion to a forceful response to the oil-rich desert kingdom. highlighting his association with the muslim brotherhood in his youth and questioning work decades ago. >> he said he isn't even a journalist. he was kills for being a journalist. he has been working for journalistic outlets, forming journalistic outlets, being chased from his own country for being a journalist. this is sick and depraved. this is how they think. well, donald trump won't be in as much trouble if he make it a little less terrible that we had
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this journalist killed and dismembered. that's the mind-set. that's how sick it is. i want to say something else as well. and that's they're foreign policy people who should know better. people have been very strong on encouraging trump to back out of the jcpoa. these people know the policy is in shambles and they're spinning their wheels just like he is, just like -- >> talking about john bolton, pompeo? >> i think all of them. all of the above. they have put so many eggs in this guilt basket of saudi arabia, expecting, giving them a free hand in yemen. expecting them to in essence take care of a lot of the iran policy on their own. that now they're sort of at a loss. the apple cart has been overturned. and it turns out lo and behold, transactional foreign policy that betrays americans' values does not work because this is what happens. they act in ways that are contrary to our values and the american people won't stand for it. right now they have a total mess on their hand.
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it's a problem of their own making. and they have got to figure out how they navigate through this issue but more importantly what they do about a larger middle east policy which really leaves us with no friends. we've alienated the europeans and now we're in trouble with the saudis. good luck trying to figure out a coherent policy on this. >> the stuff that's gone on here is -- there's a larger implication when the president says this. this is something the publisher of the times has said in conversations with us. when trump goes out there and does things like this, talks like this about a journalist, if you are a foreign leader, you say, well, if donald trump, the leader of the free world and -- whatever. >> whenever he is. >> if he's out saying these things, then why can't i do what i want to do with the press? if these -- the country that is based itself -- >> the shining city on the hill. >> the first amendment on a free press has their president saying that, then why can't i do
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whatever i want to do. >> he says it so often. let's watch. >> the poor guy. you have to see this guy. i don't know what i said. i don't remember. >> but 70%, 75% is absolute dishonest, absolute scum. remember that. scum. >> like this sleazy guy right over here from abc. he's a sleaze in my book. you're a sleaze. a few days ago, i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. they are the enemy of the people. >> she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions and, you know, you can see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. >> you had many people in that group other than neo-nazis and white nationalists, okay? and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. these are really, really dishonest people. and they're bad people. and i really think they don't like our country. i really believe that. >> by sleepy eyes chuck todd.
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he's a sleeping son of a bitch, eultell you. >> are you considering a -- >> thank you very much. >> make your way out. let's go. >> stupid question. >> those were all attacks on the u.s. press. to mike's point, they see that around the world. >> they see it around the world and people see it at home, too. there's a darkness that's descended on the republican party. some of it was happening before. the republican party has been attacking the press for years. but trump has accelerated in a way that we couldn't have imagined before. you see candidates up and down the ballot attacking the press, calling them fake news. gianforte wouldn't have been re-elected in a normal time mean was elected because donald trump has gone around delegitimizing -- >> a normal republican president would have disparaged him and distanced him and the committees in washington would have cut off funds to his campaign. >> donald trump has run around telling people you shouldn't believe the press and the press of enemies of the people. one thing that's most concerning about the long-term effects.
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we talk about norms that he shattered. norms aren't permanent. norms change and move. he's changed the norms for a certain percentage of the population. this isn't normal. kids who are growing up who think this is normal. they think this is the way the president acts. >> do you get any sense in talking to him yesterday that his degree of concern around the khashoggi issue, that he sees any connection to this conversation or is he totally detached from the effect of his own words? >> about the way he speaks about the media? no, i don't think so. >> and the closeness with saudi arabia. they are his closest ally in the region. >> i think he was very impressed by saudi arabia in the way they treated him when he went over there, and that went a very far way with him. that really showed him that they cared about him and the relationship with him. >> flattered him. >> they flattered him. he felt the same way when he went to china. those things mean a lot to him in those relationships. is there a larger connection to the press here? i don't think so. >> is he offended and moving on khashoggi because of the brutality of the alleged murder,
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or does he think mbs is just getting too much bad press? >> i'm not sure. i just think that the white house found itself finally in a place yesterday where there was an overwhelming amount of media attention, overwhelming amount of intelligence that was pointing in one direction. and they realized they had to start to head in that way or it would continue to be a bigger problem for them. >> drop the rogue killers. >> all right. thank you for spending time with us. after the break from body slams to west wing brawls and f bombs, brand-new reporting about the fireworks inside the white house yesterday between two of the president's closest aides. and being beto. how the texas senate candidate is making democrats feel great again. and a sentencing date is set for paul manafort, now a cooperating witness in the mueller probe. all those stories still coming up. i can't believe it. that everything sticks to stefon diggs's hands? no, i can't believe how easy it was
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so it's not a stretch of the imagination to go from a president who celebrates a body-slamming politician to a president with two senior advisers who nearly go to blows outside the oval office. nbc news is now reporting that white house chief of staff john kelly and the president's national security adviser john bolton exchanged harsh words yesterday in and around a meeting about the president's immigration policy. the differences escalated to an angry, profanity laced exchange on thursday between white house chief of staff john kelly and national security adviser john bolton as a hon dur an migrant caravan approaches the border. the dispute was so heated according to several people that kelly ended up storming out of the white house shortly afterwards. nbc news is also reporting the
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altercation arose from a dispute that bolton had with homeland security adviser kirstjen nielsen. nielsen was explaining an 80% rise in immigrant families when bolton interrupted her to criticize her handling of the issue. bolton said nielsen was doing a poor job with the border. and then there were f bombs. kelly ultimately stormed out of the white house early with no resolution to the issue saying i'm f'ing out of here. nbc news national political reporter carol lee joins us on set. wow. just another day in paradiparad. >> just another argument in the west wing. >> i worked in the west wing and i am a big fan of the f word when appropriate but i never used it in and around the oval office. >> well, if john kelly has become known for this, he has a reputation for being a bit of a hot head and has a temper. and you know, he -- >> not ideal in a chief of staff. >> no. and he and john bolton, you
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know, their relationship has been fraught from the start because if you remember, john kelly did not want john bolton to become national security adviser. that's not lost on john bolton. and the dynamic is set up so that bolton reports directly to the president and circumvents kelly's authority which kelly finds frustrating. there's all of that simmering underneath and then the closest person to john kelly has consistently been kirstjen nielsen. he has help her. >> he brought her into the white house. >> brought her into the white house. helped install her at the -- >> his old job. >> his old job at homeland security. and he's very protective of her. she's been under fire from the president, from within her own agency. and, you know, to have bolton then go after her for what he felt like, according to our reporting was her not really doing the one thing that she's supposed to do and the big thing the president cares about when it comes to her department. >> what's interesting about the
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palace intrigue and we'll get to the abomination which is the policy they were fighting over and nobody appears to have been on the side of the humanitarian crisis that it is. they were debating not whether to use the military but how to keep these people out. no one was having a fundamental argument over policy from my understanding. >> it was a policy meeting, but it's hard to be -- >> it was a personal attack. >> more hard-lined than john kelly on immigration issues. so the idea that bolton was somehow more -- it had more to do with his attacks on nielsen, according to people we talked to and that you talked to, too. >> what does it say, though, about kelly's standing. we've been chasing leads that kelly was on his way out, at odds with the family, jared and ivanka wing of the west wing for many months. but he seems to hang on. >> he really does. >> where does this support come from? >> it's one of those things when you talk to people about this, he'll say from the president's view like what's the ool alternative.
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if he's already being able to go around him and have direct access to people that he wants to deal with like john bolton, then what's the harm? and you can task him with different things here and there. but, you know, there's been a lot of reporting of our own, other news organizations about whether he's going to stay. the white house tried to tamp that down by issuing a statement saying he'll stay until 2020, but no one really thinks that's actually the case. >> this is how clear it will stay until monday. what do you make of the fact that inside a meeting on immigration it doesn't appear there was a debate over the substance. that there's nobody -- and i participated in immigration policy meetings, and we landed on comprehensi ivive immigratio reform. ted kennedy and john mccain supported it and the entire republican base had moved away from what george w. bush proposed. but what do you make of the policy itself that they're in there debating the incompetent use of shutting down the border. it's depressing. >> they have no policy. this is not a policy.
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this is a nonpolicy. what they tried was -- >> they tried one. they separated families. >> now they're thinking of reinstituting that policy. it was completely unsuccessful, as we've seen now with another caravan. and secondly a humanitarian disaster. so they do not have a policy. they also do not have diplomacy, which other administrations have used to work in concert with mexico and central american countries to try to cut this off down below our borders. so they are completely beres-- have to scream and inflict pain on those fleeing for their lives. it's an absolute pathetic statement that there is no thinking that's allowed within this bubble now that would say, you know what? maybe we got the wrong policy. maybe we're going about this the wrong way. maybe we have to start deal with the humanitarian crisis in this country. >> and the idea there isn't an ideological divide, they're all
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immigration hard-liners is terrifying. >> they're all immigration hardliners at a time when there isn't an immigration crisis. this is a crisis that is a political thing that created. immigration is at historic lows. up from 2017 but compared to historic levels it's quite low. it's a humanitarian crisis for the immigrants coming who are fleeing violence, poverty, who are coming at a time when the united states is basically at full employment and needs other people to come in and help take jobs. so it is, you know, it is this thing where i think what you see inside the administration is they don't have a policy to fix this. they're trying to satisfy an irrational president who just wants to see immigration -- >> and this is the right wing media establishment's big deal. >> this is one of the most important issues to the president. what, in his mind, connects him to the blue collar voters, to the base. he's been president now for almost two years.
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>> yeah. >> feels like 32. >> yeah. and he's got nothing done. there's no -- i don't want him to build the wall, but there is no wall money. he hasn't -- there hasn't been any sort of comprehensive legislation that's moved through congress. he hasn't done anything. and i think he knows that. and i think it probably worries him that at some point his folks are going to turn around and say, hey, man, it's been two years. >> where's my wall? >> where's the wall? >> did your reporting pick up anything other than this real personal nature of this dispute? is there any consternation around what doug and matt and jennifer are all saying that there isn't any progress on what is most closely associated with trump's brand? >> yeah, that's part of the issue is that you have a president who everyone knows it's been widely reported when he gets angry, that tension or whatever you want to call it really spreads throughout the west wing. and so his staff reacts to that. and part of it is that. and one of the people we spoke with told our colleague julia
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ainsley that trump is prepared to use any option. they're trying to come up with something to satisfy the boss because he hasn't had a lot to show for the biggest promise as a candidate. >> including blaming george soros and democrats for literally -- >> giving money to these homeless. >> paying these folks which is a total conspiracy theory. >> we know how he feels about those. carol lee, thank you. after the break, when texas senate candidate beto o'rourke talks, people listen. his performance in a town hall last night goes a long way in explaining why. we'll show it to you on the other side of the break. stay with us. the riskiest job. the consequences underwater can escalate quickly. the next thing i know, she swam off with the camera. it's like, hey, thats mine! i want to keep doing what i love. that's the retirement plan. with my annuity i know there's a guarantee. annuities can provide protected income for life.
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at the very outset when he began with yet another lie, i decided a can either respond the rest of the debate responding to every single dishonest thing he said or i could make sure that everyone understood exactly what he's doing. i said, look, he's dishonest. it's one of the reasons he got tagged with this nickname and it resonates because it's true. but i've got to tell you.
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it's not something that i feel totally comfortable with. and perhaps in the heat of the moment, i took a step too far. >> that was beto o'rourke at a town hall last night talking about whether he regrets resurrecting lyin' ted at tuesday night's senate debate. this was a new take on when they go low conundrum and now he'll have to deal with the low road again. the president tweeting, beto o'rourke is a total lightweight compared to ted cruz. and he comes nowhere near representing the values and desires of the people of the great state of texas. he will never be allowed to turn texas into venezuela. for trump this may be personal. listen to how beto o'rourke answered a question about impeaching him. >> i do think there's enough there for impeachment. and if asked, i would vote on it. now i have not made this the mission of the campaign. i've never called for it at a rally. never sent a campaign e-mail out about this. i'm not on any articles of impeachment for all the reasons i just gave you.
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i'm focused on the future. but, yes, i want to answer your question honestly. i think there's enough there to make sure we move forward. >> 18 days to go until texans vote, o'rourke has a long way to go in the polls. down seven points to ted cruz in an average of all the polls. some good news for o'rourke, the "houston chronicle" endorsed him. axios reports the chronicle encoursing o'rourke is a sharp turn away from the paper traditionally endorsing republican candidates. it endorsed mitt romney over barack obama in '08 and both george h.w. bush and george w. bush during their campaigns. doug, talk to me about how b beto's success as a democrat could construct this race. it seems we're talking about him. we've covered this race more than any other and aren't blind to the polls but there's something about the way he talks. he seems to be one of the few politicians on either side of the aisle trying to grow the tent and trying to answer
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questions in the old-fashioned way. honestly and with some substance. >> he's not out of central casting. he's very authentic. and one thing that when people really took notice of him was when he was asked a question in a town hall by a republican about nfl players kneeling. he gave a passionate, honest answer. and that sort of, you know, spread like wildfire. and i think what people appreciate about him is that he doesn't run away from questions. he doesn't hide. he answers them honestly, and i think compared to a guy like ted cruz, that can be -- that can be encouraging for voters. now he won the houston chronicle endorsement and had a massive quarter where he raised $38 million. this has always been a tough race, though. the fact we're talking about texas. no one thought we'd be talking about texas as a senate race. no one thought we'd be able to raise money to compete against ted cruz. it's interesting to see donald trump defend ted cruz after the spat that they had in 2016.
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>> matt mueller, i want to ask you a question about how you take what beto seems to be doing. he's not buying the narrative that things are so bleak for democrats. there's this resignation setting in among democrats on camera and off camera. they slump. they feel defeated. the midterms are 18 days away. they think that kavanaugh getting on the supreme court changed the dynamics. that's probably only a little true. there's something that happens. both partisans come home as election day nears. there's something about his optimism and something that reminds me of president obama, of george w. bush before he was running nationally. there's something about the it factor he possesses. >> there are a few lessons to learn from his campaign. it's be yourself. don't be the politician that political consultants, pollsters tell you to be. be yourself. authenticity is the most important thing. >> that's a progressive guy in texas. >> engage with the grassroots. he spent his campaign going
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around the state and using social media to engage in a way to talk directly to voters. and the third thing is to compete everywhere. it doesn't mean you'll win everywhere but you'll win some senate races you didn't expect. we won in alabama this cycle in a special election where no one would have thought we would have beto may not win but the grassroots effort may pull other democrats over the line and he'll have made investments in the party, energized democrats in a way that will pay long-term dividend to the party in a state where -- >> the way barack obama talk democrats how to talk to the country with his i don't live in red state or blue state america. you know, the way he taught democrats how to talk about that moment in politics seems to be what beto is doing. he's telling or projecting or leading by example, telling people how to talk in this era. your point about being authentic. who he is is probably out of step with texas. >> i don't think the majority of voters in texas support
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impeaching the president but he was very clear. >> give them a little more time. >> yeah, maybe. most would say the way you ought to answer that question is let's wait and see what mueller comes up with. but the thing he has going for him is he'll tell voters, you may not agree with everything i say but i am who i am. i'm not a phony like ted cruz. i'm going to always tell you the truth about what i believe. >> george w. bush ran for re-election on this message. he ran against john kerry who famously said i voted for it before i voted against it about supplemental military funding. george bush said you may not always agree with me, but you'll always know where i stand. that's where beto seems to be channeling. >> there's a technical thing that he does. he is completely fluid. he talks from the diaphragm up. there are so many politicians who either screech, they turn up way too high because they're faking emotion or they're way too reticent and brittle. >> where is ted cruz talking
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from? >> and then there are people just unlikable. that's the ted cruz problem. but there is something you have to like the candidate. donald trump was the exception to the rule of every election we've had. people didn't care because they hated hillary clinton more. but i think he's been able to, on a personal level, convey some sense of passion, some sense of urgency, and in a way where he says, you know, i am not going to play those games. i don't -- don't call me a gun grabber. i'm not going to grab your guns but i'm not for socialized medicine. here's what i want to do. he's not kind of playing in this role. he's not -- >> it's reminiscent of obama's first inaugural address. put an end to childish things. >> thank you for spending so much of the hour with us. when we come back, paul manafort took a break from all that time with robert mueller to appear in court today. we'll tell you what happened, next. you're headed down the highway
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i really am grateful to the president for appointing me as ambassador because i learned so b much about the u.n. it has 193 member nations. 180 which are mad at us on any given day. and the most important thing i learned is that with all of our differences, there is still one thing that unites all 193 countries. at one point, every single one of them was paying paul manafort. >> i don't know whether to laugh or cringe or both. nikki haley poking fun at paul manafort who last month pleaded guilty to eight charges of tax and bank fraud and is currently cooperate with the special counsel. manafort appeared in court today in the eastern district of virginia where a judge set his sentencing date for february 8th of next year. prison has already taken its toll on manafort. he arrived in a green jump suit
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visibly grayer and in a wheelchair wearing only his left shoe. manafort is a key witness for robert mueller. he attended the june 2016 trump tower meeting and was trump's campaign chairman during critical moments such as the dnc e-mail hack and rnc's platform change on ukrainian policy to decidedly pro-russia policy. joining us, former federal prosecutor paul butler and john carlan, former chief of staff to robert mueller and former assistant attorney general for the doj's national security division. his new book "dawn of the code war -- america's battle against russia, china and the rising global cyberthreat" is one that only one of us here has finished reading, matt mueller. but we're all going to finish reading it. manafort's sentencing. any significance to it being so far out? >> again, mueller is a cold-blooded, relentless prosecutor. so basically -- >> cold-blooded in all the good
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ways. >> in all the good ways he made this deal with manafort. you're looking at 20 years in prison. you're 70 years old. so your choices are you can die locked up or you can bring me someone's head on a platter. and then cut to the scenes of manafort showing up at the mueller's office, six hours a day, nine times. he's punching our clock. so he's got the goods on somebody and again, it's in his interest to deliver either obstruction of justice because now he is mueller's inside man at that meet with the russian lawyer or collusion. again, we know when manafort was running trump's campaign, he was meeting with this ex-russian intelligence officer or russian ex-intelligence officer. and when he was -- when people reached out and said we have all this dirt, all these hack
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e-mails, most folks say they would have called the fbi. manafort tried to arrange a meeting. so who else knew about that? did jared know about that? did president trump know about that? whatever manafort knows, bob mueller knows now. >> and do you think the determination to sentence him in february, john, does that represent wanting more team with him, wanting him to log more hours helping their investigators? >> that's what it looks like. and you often want more time to make sure you can play out an investigation, see the extent of the cooperation you've received before having someone go face their sentence. >> does that incentivize greater cooperation? >> the fact is he can have the sentence reduced more. mueller's team would have preferred not to have this sentencing date set but the judge in the eastern district of virginia had different ideas.
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>> so ornery. he never liked this prosecution. he made that clear in ways that were inappropriate. this is more of the same pettiness. >> my understanding is he made clear at the hearing today that they can do the sentencing on february 8th and if the cooperation hasn't concluded by then, they can come back after the fact and reduce his sentence. >> i think it is doj's national security division that that announced a russisian was charg with election meddling. talk about the significance of these charges being filed against russians. we saw the excruciating detail with which bob mueller and his team charged 13 russians. and it seems like we may have underestimated the capacity for the fbi, and bob mueller to really get right down to the keyboard and understanding what people did and when. >> i think that's right. it's kind of amazing that here we are towards the end of your hour, many great topics today but there's a case today that shows that the russians are
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spending millions of dollars to undermine not our last election but the election that's about to come up. >> 19 days away. >> and it's barely catching people's taepattention. it's a problem. it's a war being fought digitally but on our democracy and country. outstanding work by the prosecutors, agents -- >> so from nbc's report, the charges filed friday in the eastern district of virginia accuse elena -- i'm not going to even try to say her name -- of using social media platforms appearing to be from u.s. persons to create and amplify divisive social media and political content. >> you look at the details in this are amazing. i mean, they go and analyze each of the subgroups in american politics and then give advice to the members of their conspiracy. here's the time of night that this particular group reads their twitter. so that's when you want to send a message. >> so conspiracy. they're able to sort of ferencically analyze the conspiracy.
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you have to assume that's precisely what robert mueller is doing. >> the takeaway from me from the charges announced today. you go back and look at the indictments bob mueller announced months ago. this one specifically would relate to the social media activity. that's provided a foundation for other offices inside the justice department. the eastern district of virginia. >> is he telling us i've got other offices that can do this work? it doesn't matter if i'm here or not. >> that can do this work and also that there will be ongoing investigations into russian interference. he's laid the foundation here. he's shown the justice department how to bring these cases. what the elements of this conspiracy are. and now other offices inside the justice department and other offices inside the fbi can continue that work related to trump or not related to trump after he's gone. >> and to echo matt's point, he transferred those cases after he indicted them to the national security division and said keep go chasing these russians and that's what they did by bringing this case. >> robert mueller is one of the smartest people i'm sure that
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will ever serve his country. and this seems to be the durability of the mission of the probe, no? >> including insurance against president trump. so you know to put on my criminal law professor's hat, one reason people are indicted is to deter other people from doing the same kind of conduct. and so we see robert mueller's steady on the case, but you have to wonder when the president is calling all of this a witch hunt and false news, whether that emboldened the russians to go ahead and do the same thing they did in 2016 in the midterm elections. >> you have a chapter called fake news in your book. tell us about the book and about what we still don't understand about the extent of -- and the ongoing nature of russian meddling in our democracy. >> links exactly to what we're seeing today. when you look at these charges, what you'll see is this wasn't one person or small group. this was a 15-part organization with an accountant paying people for different tasks in order to influence and attack our
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democracy. and that fundamentally, it's not an attack on one party or a one person. it's an attack on all of us. and as long as we're fighting amongst each other, we can't face a true enemy of not just democracy but of our right to speak and that would be putin's russia. >> putin's russia, though, something that donald trump got both arms wrapped around. he said i believe him. he didn't do anything. we have 600 pages making it clear this is what putin's doing. >> if you look at the charges unsealed today, one of the most interesting things the russians do is calling bob mueller a tool of the establishment. some of the exact same language and attacks that the president of the united states uses. >> he would call him a lot of things but that is not one of them. nikki haley gets the last laugh. that's coming up when we come back. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared.
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dna test. actually, when the president found out that i was indian-american he asked me if i was from the same tribe as elizabeth warren. >> that was good. matt miller, she is good. >> she is good and i think, you know, you see there a little bit how she can be -- that last joke was a crack at the president. >> last three, right? killed at the u.n. talked about my accomplishments, an indian. >> a danger to him on the outside. she never tethered herself or her political career to him. and look. i take her at her word not to run against him in a primary and seemed to be positioning herself leaving early just to be out there in a strong position in case something happens to him. >> she is sort of an establishment republican's dream. more than a palate cleanser and
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someone sort of return us to the norms that republicans used to stand for, john. >> yeah, well, as you know, i'm never big on -- >> politics. >> but it sure would be nice to get to -- nice to get a place where there was a little more humor in the national debate, less anger. >> relationship with law is robert mueller might have something to do with what nikki hal haley does in the next presidential cycle. right? and people say the whole reason president trump ran for president is jokes about the -- about donald trump made by obama -- >> right. >> that trump didn't take kindly to. >> doesn't have a great sense of humor as a butt of a joke. when come back, michael cohen with an unexpected message for voters. e grown substantiall. so i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy.
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listen. here's my recommendation. grab your family. grab your friends. grab your neighbors.
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get to the poll because if not you will have another two or six years of this craziness. so make sure you vote. all right? >> one more. we know that you had meetings -- >> matt miller sin cli called that a fund raising play. my thanks to my guests. i'm nicole wallace. hi, chuck. >> happy friday, nicole. >> it's friday. >> it's friday. which means, it's just another day in our world these days, right? thank you. >> hardest working man in tv. >> exactly. if it's friday, the russians are interfering again. ♪ good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "mtp dailiment" federal prosecutors say they have busted a multi-million


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