tv Up With David Gura MSNBC October 21, 2018 6:00am-7:01am PDT
balance of power shifts in washington, d.c. while president trump is not on the ballot, he is campaigning like he is. >> a vote for morrisey is a vote for me. >> a vote for marcia is really a vote for me. >> and a street for cindy is a vote for me. >> a vote for me. >> a vote for me. >> i'm not on the ballot, but in a certain way i'm on the ballot, so please go out and vote. >> the first grader's vote was for me. >> what are voters saying about the midterms? nbc news and the "wall street journal" have released a brand-new poll and it shows rare bipartisan consensus. 80% surveyed say that the u.s. is divided. that's not the biggest surprise of the polling data. what else does it tell us about the state of the electorate? we will dig into it with my panel here. felipe ryan, christina greer is professor of political science and paul butler is legal analyst with msnbc, former federal
prosecutor, he teaches at georgetown university. christina, i will start with you and tease out some of that polling data during the course of the segment. let's look at the generic ballot. democrats have 50, republicans have 41. what does that tell you two weeks ahead of the election? >> we know a few things. one democrats tend not to turn out in midterm elections in the same rates as republicans, democrats tend to be a younger base. we know that most voters nowadays are not split ticket voting, they are going at the top of the ticket and voting partisan, straight down. we have a lot of really interesting races across the country, especially for senators and governors, which are really pulling people out and we know that some people are motivated by kavanaugh, some will be motivated by what's going on in saudi arabia because most of the time voters aren't think about international issues, but especially certain democrats are, so the reason why the president is going across the country, one, because he likes it, he likes to talk about himself, but, two, it's to
hopefully not have this shellacking that barack obama had in 2010 because, as he said, you know, a vote for a republican is a vote for him. if he loses seats it will be a referendum on him and his behavior and his governance in the past two years. >> felipe, you've been doing this a long time, you've gone through a lot of tabs. >> is that good or bad? >> it's good. i was talking about likely voters. you have that group and then registered voters. if you look at that wider pool. the democratic advantage is 7 points, 47 rs po 48%, down from a 12-point edge in september. when you look at that pool how important is it, what does that metric tell you? >> well, i think dr. greer hit it on the head in that we don't know what the lingering effects of kavanaugh are. i'm hoping from all anecdotal evidence that the turnout among the democratic party, which is usually lower than normal in a midterm, is going to be explosive and along the way we've seen that in terms of early voting and i don't think there's -- every week we talk
about have the republicans narrowed the energy or the enthusiasm gap, and i don't think so because i think democratic enthusiasm is, you know, in a world record guinness territory. if the kavanaugh seat remained open on election day maybe it would narrow, but now we're back to normal and he wants the referendum on him, ask congressman conor lamb and senator doug jones how that worked out for them. >> paul butler, i saw you nodding when we were talking about brett kavanaugh. what's your sense of the lingering effects of that in this election? the last polling last weekend couldn't really measure it yet at that point. on that issue in particular what do you think the effect is going to be? >> conservatives are winning. trump is delivering just what they hoped so they could put aside all of kavanaugh's allegations of sexual misconduct, all of the president's 22 at last count allegations of sexual misconduct against him because the two new supreme court justices now have a majority that will get rid of
rowe versus wade, even if it's not formally overturned as a practical matter women's access to healthcare will be greatly limited, affirmative action is gone, voting rights are pretty much over in terms of the most successful civil rights bill of all time. this is the republican dream. so they're going to come out to protect their turf. >> i want to turn to you, there are bright spots here for the president. >> that was a very dark sounding spot. wow. happy sunday morning. >> dr. greer gets her first pastry. bravo to you. >> you look at the approval rating for the president, approval rating 47%, disapproval rating 49%. it has ticked up in this latest read. how should he take that news? what does that tell you? what should that tell him about the electorate going into the midterms? >> so the president does think everything is about him and when it isn't he forces it to be about him, and i think in some perverse way he creates that truth because things -- people aren't necessarily on his side
wanting to make it about him, they want to run on their records, want to run on some version of things they've accomplished locally. i think he is succeeding in a way that i hope and expect will backfire for many. i look at the polling and i'm still nervous about trusting it. i think we don't know because we are in unprecedented territory. we like to also remind ourselves that this president has changed some of the political rules. some of those rules of the low democratic turnout, some of those rules of how enthusiasm gaps play out may not be working. >> the early voter turnouts, the registration numbers and i think a strong signal from republicans with powers over registration. secretaries of state who are pulling out all kinds of desperate stops to flagrantly deny people access to the franchise and behave in an unconstitutional way. i think that's the republicans operating from a base of fear because they see what's coming. so despite the president's numbers and, yes, he has his base, there is a larger base of nonvoters that we haven't seen showing up in midterms like this
in a long-term and every indication is that they are starting to arrive. >> yes, i think he turned on institutional structures. we are still not operating under the full protection of the voting rights act. in 2016 we saw what happened in the democrats. we're seeing especially a case like georgia, stacey abrams has galvanized the state of georgia, not just atlanta, not just faerns -- >> do you think the purple of georgia is real? >> i've done some work in georgia and i've seen it. there are a lot of people who are switching from the republican party to at least being in the middle to say, well, listen, you know, i actually don't have a job and i don't have healthcare and she's been in the legislature, seems that she knows how to work with some of these folks from down state. she's going against the secretary of state who is her opponent, referee and rule maker. i will disagree with you, quickly. when you say affirmative action is dead, i think it's alive and well, all we have to do is look at brett kavanaugh and donald trump.
it's alive and well. >> and jared kushner and ivanka. >> that is the clearest case of affirmative action that i have seen in my life. it's not working for people of color, marginalized communities but it's definitely working for everyone at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. i really, though, just think that we have to be cognizant of these institutional structures that are working against so many americans who are trying to actually be parse pa tore in states across the country and we also have to look at our state of new york. we don't even have early voting. if you didn't register on october 12th you can't participate on november 6th. there are institutional mechanisms that make it difficult for people to participate and we know that some people want to, they just don't have the information, it's convoluted and unfortunately sometimes both parties are working against -- >> this is a guy who he votes in a tuxedo. >> dress up to vote. you have to dress up for democracy, y'all. it's so precious. there have been so many struggles to ensure access to this that it actually feels good to look good. plus, when you roll into a
polling site in a tux, everybody loves you. >> i think in 2016 the three states that hillary lost that everyone thinks she should have won and, you know, i think she should have won, wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania, did not have early voting. >> no. >> something like -- and nevada, which we won as we thought we would, did have early voting. so to the point about they have all these -- their little tricks and devilishness in getting people to not vote -- >> north carolina. souls to the polls was working and because it was working so well and people were really actually participating in their democracy then they said, well, clearly let's take it away because we don't need protection of the voting rights act because it's actually working so let's take away the protection. >> this new law in georgia that if you haven't voted in the last couple elections your names are removed from the voting rolls and you have to go through all these procedures, which disproportionately impacts african-americans which to your point is the intent of it. it's like old school.
>> it's always been the intent. >> we are also seeing people sur mount those attempts, organize buses, text messaging campaigns, use of artists and media. folks are not trying to be held back and i think we have a long history in this country of fighting against that sort of systemic oppression. we've been here before, we've climbed over those hurdles before and keep being reminded this is a persistent battle not a one time thing. >> paul, i want to turn to you quickly. we've heard from loretta lynch this week, she was on "hard ball" talking about this very issue, about it being an issue of power. how handicapped is this country not having a top priority within it? you mentioned the voting rights act which was eviscerated. give us your read of where we stand today and what that means for this process? >> there is a constitutional right to vote, a constitutional right not to be discriminated against on the basis of race or class -- actually, not class, you can be discriminated against
on the basis of class. but the point is, as you've mentioned, there has been this whole history of denying black and brown people the franchise. you would hope in 2018, after an african-american president that we would have gotten to a better place. in fact, what we're seeing is regression. that's what i meant by old school. we could talk about the poll taxes back in the day or we could talk about these fancy new procedures, voter id, but the point is the same, to prevent the descend ens of slaves to prevent the people who built this country from exercising their right to vote. >> and there is something -- there is a rhetorical move that's possible here. when you think about the party we're describing in this case, the gop which leans on language of free markets, open access, level playing field and fair competition. there is no more free or fair market for competition than voting, than a democracy with a franchise that has everyone participating. so when you deny that to people, what you're saying is i don't believe in all that rhetoric
i've been spewing. i don't believe in a level playing field because i don't believe i can compete on it. that's why i have to rig the system in my favor. >> are you saying republicans are hypocritical? >> i'm saying all humans can be hypocritical. at such a high level with something so basic, it's morally repugnant, not just hypocritical. >> let me use that as a segue to this last bit of polling, looking at how voters respond to issues. when you look at the committee republicans are 43%, democrats are 28. felipe, how do democrats respond to that? in the last hour we were talking about how there was a opportunity a couple years ago for democrats to make this their issue. this he didn't. now republicans are embracing it. what's a democrat to do at this point when it comes to -- >> i would say two things, one to the extent that, you know, i could red team a republican holding of congress, particularly the house, it would be the number you just cited. i think the argument against it is this is not bill clinton inheriting a recession, this is not barack obama inheriting
basically a near financial collapse. this is someone who is inheriting a race car that was moving along with ten laps to go and he changed the tires and he's claiming that he's mario andretti. the problem is, though, to the extent that they might do well, it will be because of these games they play, the shenanigans, redistricting and that one number, it's the only number in his favor. it's not true in the sense that you have everyone thinking that their 401(k) has gone up 100%. people don't even have money in the market. >> or in the bank. 40% of americans can't cover a $400 expense. >> the top 1%. 70% of all of the gains go to the top 1%. thank you, president trump. >> hence the tax cuts. >> and another tax cut. >> jared and ivanka made $82 billion. >> million. >> $82 million last year. that wasn't even a news sortory.
it's like what is your job, jared? this is part of the problem where president trump promises you're going to get money because i have money. this $1.50 is not going to help anyone across the country. >> him worrying about and when he blurts out i'm going to get another middle class tax cut going right before election day. he knows he's in trouble and he knows it's his best bet. >> this is a man who has never been good with money anyway, every new yorker knows that because he has had several bankruptcies. >> six. >> even though he has -- >> and every banker except deutsch bank apparently. >> we don't know because we haven't seen his taxes. up next on "up" the white house is changing tune on the killing of jamal khashoggi and the growing concerning over jared kushner's ties to saudi arabia, ties that are reportedly causing a rift inside the white house.
♪ back to "up" i'm david gura. i just want to showcase where i have the best team in the business. they have pulled the image of you in tuxedo on election day. will you come back in tux? >> yes. >> we can do a tux show. >> we can do a tux show. >> onward -- you and i can rent one. in a new interview president trump has started to change his tune when it comes to saudi arabia's story of what happened to a "washington post" columnist in a consulate in istanbul. speaking with the "washington post" last night in a 20 minute phone interview president trump
made this comment about mohammed bin salman. he said, quote, there is a possibility he found out about it afterward, it could be something in the building went badly awry, that could be when he found out about t he could also have known they were bringing him back to saudi arabia. felipe, i will turn to you, you've been in the state department, you know how diplomacy works or is supposed to work. your reaction to how this has unfolded thus far, how it looks like it's going to continue to unfold, that is, the u.s. government is ceding a heck of a lot of responsibility if not all responsibility here to a principal country involved in all of this and to turkey as well. >> it's a crazy story to start with, i think everybody knows that. >> sparing it's a crazy story. >> it's hard to unpack it because of that and there's so much color involved in terms of the bone saw and 15 guys on a plane and the fact that he's a journalist for the "washington post." in terms of trump, i think you're seeing a couple things. you're seeing him falling for a line, which is what he does best. >> willingly.
>> willingly. i'm sure he was on the phone with the saudis and they started the conversation by, you know, congratulating his historical electoral college win and the next thing you know he's saying, i'm sure it was an accident. there's a real problem here in that he's so tone deaf. there is an aspect to this that hasn't been looked at that i might be a little bit far out thinking, but he hates the "washington post" because it's owned by jeff bezos and he hates amazon because it's owned by jeff bezos. to the extent that he doesn't care about the press to begin with, i'm sure he doesn't care about this one in particular, but, you know, the background, jared does, like most things, deserve a lot of blame for things. i think these guys, one of the biggest problems they've had for the last three years, whether you're talking about meeting with reactions in 2015-2016 or saudis in 2017-2018, they don't know how to modulate. they have no idea about subtlety. if jared said something like, you knew, what you guys do
internally is your business, they hear that as let's all get on a plen and start buzz sawing people. they don't appreciate that. they might even realize such a cause and effect. turkey, we were on the outs with turkey -- >> wasn't a good relationship. >> -- because of the pastor and you have to wonder did jared communicate that because, i mean, why are you doing this on turkish soil if you don't think -- and the bottom line is people think this was bungled. it was bungled, but i don't think it was their first rodeo. >> i want to ask you about the tape, that's a big part of this story, the "washington post" in a piece about that interview they did with the president last night cites someone in the cia says there is a tape, it's been listened to. trump on saturday denied any u.s. officials have heard audio, seen video or read transcripts from the turks, but cia officials have listened to an audio that they say proves that the journalist was murdered by a saudi team.
just your reaction to the way this has been approached diplomatically. secretary of state mike pompeo went over there, there were reports that he heard of tape, he said he hadn't. >> it's incredibly probative evidence. in the case of murder you almost never have videotape or oral tape of what went down, so if there's a real investigation, again, we get to know a lot more than we would without this evidence. the problem is president trump keeps comparing this investigation to the kavanaugh investigation, which is not really good news for kavanaugh if he think that mr. kavanaugh is in the same situation as the accused in this case who are clearly guilty, right? but the other thing about the kavanaugh investigation is that the investigation was rigged, it was done in a way that would be pleasing to the president and to the republicans. so we hope that if there is an investigation here the truth will come out, but, again, we think about this president, i don't know if this is a realistic hope. this is a guy who crushes on
strong men with big hands. during the campaign it took bill o'reilly to tell him that putin was a killer. you remember trump's response, he said there are a lot of killers. do you think the united states is so innocent? now i guess we will find out. >> christine, i will read you another quote, obviously there has been deception and there has been lies, trump said in an interview, pressed on the discrepancies, their stories are all over the place. let's stick with this, the integrity of the investigation. what is the fallout, what are the ramifications of the way that that brett kavanaugh investigation was handled? >> so this is part of the problem because if we read the constitution the framers started with in article 1 congress. the executive is article 2 and the judiciary is article 3. this isn't just the bad behavior of a particular president who buddies up to authoritarian regimes and likes countries that have no democracy whatsoever and he really does have these crushes on these strong men because he wants to be essentially a king, he wants to
just say i want it done this way and congress is getting in his way. that's been part of the problem because it's not just the president and his administration, it's the total abdication of the republican party in congress to essentially hand over the american democracy to a man who is ill equipped to represent any of us. >> so you must be cheered, then, when you hear from the likes of senator lindsey graham or bob corker pushing back against the narrative we heard here. >> for what, five minutes? it's not substantive and it's not enough. i mean, the separation of powers are such that we should have -- even though they are in the republican party, they should serve country first and then the president. >> that's a very novel and optimistic read. >> listen, i'm trying to inspire the youth of america every day and it's hard with this particular administration. i keep saying administration because it's not trump alone. he has people in a bureaucratic sense and people in his party who are just helping him push toward this dictatorial
authoritarian regime. so congress, especially the republican congress has to say not just jeff flake and his flaky five minutes of maybe i will stick up for myself for a moment or lindsey graham tweeting one sentence saying maybe i'm a little wrong. they have to say, no, sir, this isn't how our democracy is going to survive. we must do serious investigations not just domestically but abroad. if we know that the branches are supposed to be an eek which lateral triangle in many ways the media is the fourth branch and we cannot disrespect media because they serve as a reflection for what we are doing as public service. the fact that the republicans have essentially handed over our democracy from a man who is from queens and has never even walked into some sort of legislative or executive office in any capacity to respect the office and also the american people, we're in dangerous times. >> i need a little of your optimism here. there have been so many incidents where it becomes a big
fewer fuhrer, i would say brett kavanaugh might fall into that camp. you have this incident which stands to upend our relationship with saudi arabia. do you have any confidence that this is going to be that, that we're going to see a radical pivot as a result of what happened? >> i don't think any single incident will lead to a radical pivot but i think there is a cumulative effect of destroying the story of america and the actual support beams for our democracy. so our economically, foreign policy, rule of law, justice department attack, cia attacks, attacking the media and in this case we used to be a country that did a better more artful job of the bs. right? of the dance that the country must do, right? and this president and this administration and the republican congress that has partnered with him have undermined the art of it. 15 people don't engage in a fistfight with one other person. that's a brutal beat down, that's for fewer, that's mob violence. that's not a fight. that's a murder.
yet he sells that story because he doesn't respect us and he changes the story of america. so the optimism for me says, it's just a story and we can rewrite it ourselves. in the meantime it is getting worse because other leaders are looking at him, they're making decisions based on that, playing to his ego, probably talking about his huge inauguration crowds, et cetera. >> or hands. >> or hands. but it is temporary. i into err that we've lost a lot but i know that we can regain more. that's where i will stake my hope but it's not an easy one. >> thank you very much. up next on "up," what happens when a shining candidate starts to hit low and things turn dark before election day? ♪ a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations,
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♪ he's vowed to deport every single dreamer. he's selling paranoia and fear instead of solutions. >> that's what it looks like when the gloves come off in the texas senate race with 16 days until the midterm elections bait toe o'rourke is sharpening his attacks on his opponent, republican senator ted cruz. for two months o'rourke kept his ads tame but as election day looms he started taking direct shots at his challenger. >> ted cruz has voted to take away healthcare for millions of american families. he has tried repeatedly to roll back protections for preexisting conditions. ted cruz wants to take our public tax dollars out of their classrooms, turn them into vouchers. >> this election is going to see
side the future of immigration. he's vowed to dee fort every single dreamer >> there is a sense among some that congressman o'rourke's attacks are coming too late in his campaign. they say o'rourke has dragged his feet in aggressively responding to the cruz campaign. wade goodman reports cruz's reelection campaign has not been shy about attacking his opponent. let's get back to the panel here in new york. felipe, he has been somebody in whom a lot of democrats around the country have put a lot of hope and faith, there's optimism that despite what the polling has indicated month after month after month congressman o'rourke might pull it out and win this race. what do you make of this tactic, meeting cruz at his own game, playing cruz at his own game, getting negative in this last couple weeks? >> it's not good. i think, you know, beto o'rourke is incredibly optimistic, looking to the future, he is kind of a wonder. he's running in the wrong state.
if he's going negative like that, it's usually a sign of some sort of frustration and that might be a race where the kavanaugh effect really made a difference because if i recall the polling i think it was tighter before kavanaugh. but i have a feeling no matter what -- this isn't going to be the last we hear of beto o'rourke's name. >> is he in the wrong state? you look at all these viral clips of him speaking, he talks about what it means to be texan today and his sense of that state is different from what we might have thought that state is like. he talks about the immigrant population there, the bi-border cities as he calls them down along the u.s./mexico border. >> he's absolutely in the right state, but he's about 20 years too early. so for the democrats demography is destiny. in 25, 30 years people of color will be the majority, there won't be any single group that
has a big hand in the vote, so there will have to be coalitions formed, but for now texas is still majority white, race still matters, and so i think that beto is playing to a national audience, democrats love themselves, a white dude, that's what he is, so we'll see. >> i think your comment, you know, we should unpack that a little bit because the republicans actually do understand that demographics are destiny and that's why they are going so hard to try to deport so many green cardholders and people of latino descent. this is an agenda because they do fear this wave of people of color who will then be the majority in this country. if you cannot create more white people in this country the way we've done in the past by letting in other racial groups from other countries and europe, then you actually have to get rid of other people. so they get that. i think beto o'rourke, also, though, he's going up against an
incumbent. stacey abrams is within .6%, but she is not going up against an incumbent. bait toe o'rourke has done a great job with fundraising but that doesn't help with all the blue cities in a red state. had democrats been investing in texas over time, they just essentially ceded it to the bushes and sort of ceded it to the republicans. they've been building a grassroots strategy across the state what they should have been doing for 50 states then bait toe could use that $38 million to supplement it with real organizations that could help him win. >> is this a good look for beto o'rourke? we have seen people em grace his positivism and optism. you get to this broader point how do you react to that. there have been midterms in the past where this has happened and people goaded into going negative. was it a mistake for him to do
that, to take that lower road, to hit ted cruz when he had been sort of looking beyond him, looking to the future? >> i think the way he did it was a mistake. you asked is it a good look? he's still good looking. i looked at that video, a handsome man, a well-balanced face and he has inspired a lot of people. i think what professor greer said, when you talked about the lack of infrastructure, what i'm hopeful for is that he inspires a deeper investment by the democrats of texas to see, oh, we almost got there against an incumbent with the power of the presidency behind him, and if beto was going to be negative against cruz i hope he would channel some of the larger collective frustration with ted cruz who shut down the federal government because too many people were getting healthcare. that's not a good look for ted cruz or anyone in a position of representing people given how significant and important healthcare is and what an economic drag it's been on our country. i think there is a more elegant way to do that and a maybe the
frustration is showing through when he starts quoting the least positive aspirational or decent president we have ever had. >> i was going to say it's less important what the four of us think and more important what beto himself thinks and i think he shortly after said that he regrets doing that. it's not a good look or bad look, it's not his look. i think when you are someone who is appealing to that extent because you're so genuine, any deviation from that is going to disappoint people, probably starting with himself. >> let's come back here and talk about protests. up next on "up," the fight for control of congress gets ugly and it gets personal. >> look at nancy pelosi right here. look at this piece of [ bleep ] right here. look at this piece of [ bleep ] pelosi right here. a once-in-five hundred year storm should happen every five hundred years, right? fact is, there have been twenty-six in the last decade. allstate is adapting. with drones to assess home damage sooner. and if a flying object damages your car, you can snap a photo and get your claim processed in hours,
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♪ why don't you leave our country alone? >> leave him alone. >> that's video from tmz showing senate majority leader mitch mcconnell trying to enjoy cuban good while being heckled while out with his wife on friday. the incident taking place at a local restaurant in his home state of kentucky. this is not the first time we have seen politicians confronted in public, especially in today's political climate, it's not just members of the gop who are feeling the heat, watch what happened to house minority leader nancy pelosi on
wednesday. >> look at this piece of [ bleep ] right here. look at this piece of [ bleep ] pelosi right here. [ bleep ]. you don't belong here you [ bleep ] communist. get the [ bleep ] out of here. get the [ bleep ] out of here. >> [ bleep ] you and your [ bleep ] democrats. >> i've been looking at the reaction to both of these incidents, paul, i will turn to you first here, wesley lowry who writes for the "washington post" was tweeting about how no journalist should be calling this to end. this is an exercise of first amendment rights to do this. i will read one of the tweets he fired off, you should not yell at elected officials in public is an anti-free speech stance, full stop. your reaction to this. we're seeing more of it. we saw it in some capacity or version on capitol hill during the fight over brett kavanaugh's nomination. what do you make of what's happening here? members of congress, members of the administration being approached in public,
constituents, maybe folks who aren't their constituents making their grievances known in this way. >> this is the american play. it's not pretty, it's not polite, it's inn civil but it's a way of protesting when you feel like the future of your country is at risk. both sides feel that way. where you draw the line is at violence. for that group that was attacking leader pelosi included some white supremacist elements, those kinds that president trump loves to send a shout out to. but, again, i think this is the american way, you know, people don't get to enjoy a dinner, that's fine. i was schooled on the black feminist theory that teaches us personal is political. you have to own your stuff so you have to own it even when you're going out to dinner >> felipe i was struck by the way that the senate majority leader didn't seem to react at all of this. at one point somebody took a doggie bag of his food and threw it outside. let me put out a video of what happened after dinner at
georgetown university when his wife inter exacted with some of the protesters who encountered them here. >> why don't you leave my husband alone? why don't you leave my husband alone? that is not -- back up. back up. >> back up. [ inaudible ]. >> so, felipe, it was elaine chch chow saying no, no, no to to the protesters there. what should an elected official say to the protesters. >> mitch mcconnell is a stoic guy. the notion when you say mitch mcconnell and tmz i had to do a double take. >> might have been a first. >> i think he's thinking a couple things, first of all, i have capital police that are ten feet away, two, i have my wife
elaine who is better than the capitol police, three, he's thinking merrick garland verse my leftovers. he's getting away with murder and net/net i think he thinks this is the worst he gets that's fine, but this is such a made up problem. again, it is like professor butler said, it is the first amendment and there is a difference and it goes to something dr. greer said, people are doing this because there is no other opportunity or no other oversight. the republican congress has basically pledged to donald trump. people are doing these things because it's all that's left. what are they doing? they're denying sarah sanders her supper, her cornish hen? they're serenading kooersen nielsen in a mexican restaurant. they're heckling stephen miller for being stephen miller. you watch the pelosi stuff, the real -- when i watch this the real thing to me is the proud boys who i have never heard of
but these white nationalists -- >> apparently sean hannity has never heard of them. >> even though he has had them on 800 times. you have a republican party who is giving aid and comfort to the proud boys and to white nationalists and they become the party of white nationalists and all of their hatred. that's the bigger deal to me than someone not getting their is upper >> there will be those who say this is the direct result of a member of the democratic party of maxine waters saying this should be happening all the time. what do you say to that? >> i don't think that that's the case. i think that, you know, yes, if you are an elected official you are a public servant. >> not the case in that she is not catalytic or when you look at the continuum this was happening before that? >> well, i think in so many ways we've always had people who have had ire towards our elected officials. the fundamental difference is that the republican party because the president has said it is okay now to use physical violence, right, maxine waters also said shoot straight if you are coming at me, we do have a long history of people assassinating our elected officials. dylann roof did it just a few
years ago in south carolina. so the fundamental difference is the republican and the white nationalist, might i add might supremacist wing of the republican party is using more physical violence. heather higher is dead because a white nazi supported this conversation. we are moving in a dangerous direction because the president is saying it's okay to attack journalists and now also your enemies and your entries are democrats. i think -- you know, when people protest republicans at restaurants, there is this shame on you because you are putting policies that really damage americans. the difference is when white nationalists sort of wave their fingers at democrats it's i hate you and you shouldn't be in this country and you shouldn't exist as an elected official which is very different. >> and that civility line is not evenly applied. i think what mitch mcconnell could do to avoid the situation is not steal a supreme court seat and pretend he didn't do it. what he could do is not give away $2 trillion to corporate
interests and not pretend he now has to take away from the least among us to give to those who have the most. there is a level of contempt that the american people are witnessing and when the political process no longer responds to your political will, people look for other ways and they start chasing politicians down the street and they start heckling them in restaurants. why is it always an ethnic restaurant by the same people that you don't want in this country. like the gas lighting and the trolling, there's art to it, but it's ridiculous. >> i thought we were the party of soy and coconut juice. suddenly we are an angry mob. >> kickly here. >> forget about maxine waters, she was saying we should push back which meant not take it. they were calling her an angry crazy black woman. it was the most transparent thing of all time. again, you have this false equivalency of when she says we shouldn't sit back and take it, you are like, oh, my god, she's being inn civil as opposed to
being called a racially motivated -- she is a stupid low iq woman. >> we have to also recognize the president just tweeted with stacey abrams saying she is unqualified. let's be clear, stacey abrams has a j.d. from yale, ba and policy degree and going up against somebody with a ba, no disrespect to people who just have bas. the fact that the president is putting out on at which time that are this black woman is wholly unqualified is part of this larger narrative that says black women especially aren't qualified to be on the position. >> more than happy to talk about brett kavanaugh's yale degree during the course of those hearings. >> exactly. the o the o
. if you look at the assault that is currently being waged against democracy, we see a constant attack on facts and evidence and reason and truth, the alternative reality appro h approach. >> hillary clinton taking what you could call a vailed swing at president trump. the former presidential candidate stepping back into the spotlight, working to raise money for the democrats. there is a new piece i want to draw your attention to about secretary clinton's legacy and the role that she might play in the next campaign. how do you solve a problem like
hillary. i want to go to you because you had a tantalizing quotation in this piece. it is about what might happen in 2020. it is curious why hillary clinton's name isn't in the mix as a 2020 candidate. you continue andi itantalizing e more. clarify that if you would. what is she thinking? what is your sense of thinking about her approach to 2020 and these intervening two years. >> her approach in 2020 is that she wants someone not named donald trump to be sworn in in january. >> that's not on the berth ser ti tiff. >> i think the larger point i was making was that this is someone who, you know, even genders a great deal of enthusiasm and love and respect among the democratic party and she can be used tremendously. this notion of, look, people
growning at the idea of her running again, the person that would groan the loudest is hillary clinton. nancy pelosi is under this attack, too, about why is she out there? she's toxic. and she has said, i just want to win. and hillary clinton says the same thing. use me, don't use me, i just want to help. >> then sit down. exit the stage. she's a loser. >> don't we have to go to a break? >> listen, i don't know how many times the american public can say, we like hillary clinton, we respect hillary clinton, we also have a fundamental problem with hillary clinton. when a blackman from the south side of chicago can take out one of the most prominent democratic families, we know we have a problem with the candidate. >> look who is on the campaign
trail now. you have joe biden, bernie sanders. they are all men. is there anything to that argument that she is being marginalized because she is a woman? >> we have -- listen, if stacy abrams wins, she will be straight to the top of the conversation. i think the larger problem is we haven't really cultivated a bench. the democrats did an eight-year lap after they elected the first black president and they lost 1,000 seats across the country that they didn't plan on. republicans have two-thirds of governor's races. >> she's already won and lost. >> twice. >> which applies to biden and sanders. >> we also know the same rules don't apply to women. >> she's younger than sanders. >> again, same rules don't apply to women. >> it doesn't matter. i'm trying to convince you.
>> so she's technically not a loser in the truest sense. she won more votes, and she is the second highest vote going presidential candidate in the history of the country. >> technically she actually is a loser. she lost the election. >> not in the donald trump sense of the word. >> we're still hearing from newt gingrich. he hasn't gone away. so we mix base for some voices that we think should be retired and not others. the smaller additional thing i'll add is i think there is a sense of shame on the part of many democrats on the left that we somehow -- that we lost. and she bears that, and we don't want to look at her because we don't want to look at that loss either. >> if there was a -- >> you guys continue this. >> if there was an autopsy of 2016 and someone came to the conclusion that it was because the candidate was named clinton, that's a problem.
coming up, it's a.m. joy. thanks very much to all of you on the panel. mud and christened me on rock, so i got tougher. they fostered a love of learning, so i got smarter. taught me to appreciate the finer things in life, so i became more civilized and refined. thank you, freedom and adventure, for giving me this rugged, civilized, wandering soul.
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