under pressure, multiple reports now that president trump is angry, furious even over those midterm losses and criticism of his weekend trip to paris. that anger could mean pink slips at the white house. will chief of staff john kelly be next to go? what about the staffer, the first lady says should go. former trump insider omarosa manigault newman is here. she'll join me in a few moments. congress back in session. some dems aren't sure she should be the next speaker. reports that democrats have the votes to unseat ms. pelosi. who would take her place? and bush and obama, jenna bush hager and michelle obama sit down for an intimate conversation. we'll start at the white house, the white house having a far more difficult time. on capitol hill today we've seen class photos, leadership

elections. republicans and democrats greeting their newest members. we saw rick scott of florida next to senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. jumping the gun perhaps just a bit, basically business as usual after a midterm, not so at the white house. much like two years ago, they are having a tough time in this transition. just in the last 24 hours we've seen the following. multiple stories of in fighting and a potential shake-up. a first lady call for theous or of a top official. and. one senior white house official, quote, this is a week where things could get really dicey. to break it all down, nbc's chief white house correspondent

hallie jackson stuck around and na yamiche alcindor. >> you've got this story about john kelly, how long does general kelly have and what about the others? >> let me start with that first question. i don't know and i don't think anybody really does, and if anybody tells you they know they're probably wrong. the only person that knows is donald trump, and i don't mean to sound coy about it, but the bottom line is this. kelly clearly on the rocks. that is something that's been happening for a while. what is new is we've learned about these tensions with first lady melania trump's office. several sources familiar with this talk about these issues that have come up over travel, staffing, issues that have been raised to the level of the president, and that's in addition to the concerns that have been bubbling up for months. sure, he told his staffers the president asked him to stay on until 2020. that seems extremely unlikely to happen based on our reporting. who could replace john kelly? there's a couple of options out

there. i'm told there is sort of an active and had been an active recruitment effort to reach out to people who could come into the west wing. nick ayers seems to be among the front runners. who else? a lot of eyeballs on kirstjen nielsen. she's down at the border for a trip there along with defense secretary jim mattis, but the tensions between kirstjen nielsen and donald trump have been building for a long time. john kelly has been her protector, but if kelly goes, you know, who's left to be a shield for secretary nielsen? there are some questions and a lot of speculation surrounding that. again, though, timing, lots of question marks there. >> yamiche, there are multiple reports now that the president is in a foul mood, shall we say. is this all about the midterm losses, or is there something else that's put the president in this bad mood? >> i think the president is in a bad mood because of those midterm losses that republicans

in some cases point to the white house as being the source for those problems, and also because of the optics of him being seen as skipping these veterans day events and looking as though he doesn't really care about soldiers. there's this idea that i think the president who's someone who was born in reality tv. he's someone who's very familiar with that brand, very familiar with how looking on camera could affect people's perceptions of you, and the one thing he's really tried to keep consistent, even though he's made fun of the late john mccain for his heroism at being captured, he's trying to say he's someone who supports the military, who has the soldier's backs. what we saw is people questioning whether or not he cares enough to leave his bed, to leave the white house and go even to arlington cemetery. he skipped that trip on monday, and it was one of those things where people were just questioning his ability to lead. so i think that the president is frustrated by all of that, and

as a result he's kind of in some ways not been taking a day off but he's been trying to not show his face. if you're not in a good mood you might take off from work, but of course we're talking about the president of the united states, not trump tower anymore, and that's the big distinction here. >> i want to go back to nick ayers. you just mentioned him. his name bandied about. what do we know him? what's his reputation inside the west wing? >> i would say mixed probably. he's worked very closely with vice president pence for a while. he's from georgia, he's somebody who has made friends and worked to build a relationship with for example, president trump, is i'm told that jared kushner and ivanka trump are fans as well. he's got some enemies. the guy works in politics, not

everybody likes him. he would potentially be a little bit of a controversial pick, but at this point it seems like he is among the front runners for that position, somebody who is oftentimes sort of in the background. he did not travel we understand the vice president overseas this week, a senior administration official overnight was asked about this on that trip and said, hey, we don't comment on palace intrigue. it's more the palace intrigue when you're looking at the person who is working with the staff. >> chief white house correspondent hallie jackson pulling double duty within the span of a few minutes. thank you so much. yamiche, don't go far. i want to bring you back a little later to continue an important conversation. someone familiar with just how this white house works and perhaps how it does not work, she joins me now from washington. omarosa manigault newman, of course the former director of communications for the office of public liaison at the white house. always good to see you. thanks for being with me. the name that keeps coming up, this nick ayers as a replacement

for general kelly, nick ayers, vice president, pence's chief of staff. you've got a history with both men here. what's your sense about what's going on in the white house right now? >> i think that nick has been gunning for the chief of staff job for a long time, but you have to also realize there's another name that's mick mulvaney. he also is still in the running. everyone's saying nick because nick is putting that out probably through his camp. don't forget that mick mulvaney also was a name thrown around often for this position. so yes, nick wants it because he's incredibly ambitious and has always cozied up to the president. i remember being in some meetings with him, and he would always try to say the right thing to kind of impress the president. doesn't forget about mick mulvaney. >> is he a sycophant? >> yes and no. he plays two different roles depending on who he's serving.

he pushes back to kind of show that maybe he would be a good leader in situations where a good decision has to be made. >> you previously said that you suspect that ayers may be the one that wrote that anonymous "new york times" op-ed. i am part of the resistance inside the trump administration. if he is under consideration, clearly the administration doesn't think he's part of the resistance. you still think he wrote the op-ed? >> i still believe that the language was very consistent with some of the memos that he wrote while i was there and some of the e-mails. and one of the things i think is really interesting is there's been rumors they've identified who the anonymous writer was, but the white house has been very, very quiet about it because of how high level that person is supposed to have been. >> you think it might be general kelly or someone of that level? >> i haven't found out who it is, but i understand from my sources that they've actually identified that person and has

quietly removed them from the administration. >> so that person's already gone. >> i want to talk to you about this drama now between the west wing and the first lady's east wing staff. there's always been a rivalry. why do we think this particular rivalry resulted in the public demand for the head of a top national security aide to go? >> the only reason you go public is when you don't get your way privately. so that statement that came out of the first lady's office served one purpose, and that was to kind of force her husband's hand and get rid of that person because they were unable to do it in the background. that's the only reason any staffer goes to the press is to kind of force the president to do what they weren't able to do. >> these reports that the president is brooding right now, that he is angry, if not furious, his losses in the midterms continue to grow. house democrats promising investigations come january. what do you surprise this president's bounceback plan is

going to be? >> you know, the one thing that i know that he gets enthusiastic about is a good fight, and so you'll see the president start picking fights with everyone inside the white house, outside the white house, in his own party, in the opposition. he likes a good fight. without the boogeyman, donald trump is nothing but someone who is just constantly down, down, down, and that's what you're seeing. during the rallies when he was in the midterm campaign season, he was enthusiastic because he could turn to the caravan and immigrants and all the different boogeymans he's created. without someone to kind of rail against, donald trump seems very, very disengaged. but you'll see his bounceback will be to attack the democrats, to create new enemies, to fight people within his own staff, and firings get him very excited, which is why you hear all this talk about him getting rid of different staffers and cabinet members. >> he needs a foil or he needs foils. >> that's the only thing that gets him excited is chaos and

controversy and conflict. >> these reports that he is brooding right now, your sources would back that up. this is not a president who's pleased? >> absolutely. one of the things he hates being accused of is not supporting the military, and what happened overseas is a clear evidence of just not being surf rorounded b people to give him good political advice. when he's made to look like a fool the way the french president made him in the decision to not go honor fallen veterans, this is a clear example of donald trump being embarrassed, and as a result you see him sulking, and he's pouting like a child, and as a result he's going to continue to lash out and everybody around him will be miserable. just the way he likes it. >> omarosa manigault newman, thank you so much. and the book is called. >> "unhinged". >> i wanted to make sure we got that in.

>> hate crimes spike. for the third straight year there's been a surge in the number of crimes fueled by hate in this country. why? plus, pelosi's party, what the newly elected wave means for nancy pelosi's run for speaker of the house. and jenna bush hager sitting down with michelle obama to talk about her new book, and the unique bond between their families, and why we are so hungry for it right now. >> you know, it's so interesting how people are so interested in you-all's friendship. that hug was like the hug that went afternoon the world. >> in america's heart, that's where we want to be, and i think that our relationship reminds us that we can get there. introducing zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. we have fidelity mutual funds with zero minimum investment. and now only fidelity offers four zero expense ratio index funds directly to investors.

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welcome back, former first lady michelle obama setting the record straight as she promotes her new book "becoming." today she talk to nbc's jenna bush hager who joins me now. you've got a unique perspective obviously. you know what it's like to live in the white house? >> i do. i've gotten to know her over the years. the nation was introduced to mrs. obama more than ten years ago. i wanted to find out why she's chusing choosing to speak out now and connected with her as a mother. >> we taught them to go down the banister, you're welcome. >> well, and they did that often. thank you. >> you're welcome. that's exactly what a mom wants them to learn.

>> you think back to that day before you even stepped in the house, that majestic house. how have you all changed? >> it's an odd thing for the world to see you transition from a child to a young woman, and so they've grown up, and they've had their stumbles and they've had their triumphs, but i will remember that time fondly as well. you guys took that time and flew in and gave them the kids' tour of the white house. you made them feel excited about the strange and scary thing that was about to happen to them. >> i wrote you a letter after the election just to thank you for all of your work because i know it's not easy. i want to cry. >> i know, i am too. >> sorry. >> but i also wanted to get advice about how to talk to my girls about the way that people -- the language that's being used. what did you say to your girls? >> there are values that we understand and cut across party and race and identity and

religion, you know, values of kindness and appreciation. we owe it to our kids to keep them on the right track, even when there are grown-ups around them behaving badly. >> in the country's increasingly divided political environment, there's one relationship that stands out. >> i got a text from my dad this morning that said send michelle my love, and then i thought, you know, it's so interesting how people are so interested in you-all's friendship. that hug was like the hug that went around the world. why do you think people are so hungry for that? >> because i think the political discourse, the way it's shown in the media is it's all the nasty parts of it. we're all americans. we all care about our family and our kids and we're trying to get ahead. we have different ideas about what's the best way to get there. i think in america's heart that's where we want to be, and i think that our relationship reminds us that we can get there. >> her aspiration for something greater has inspired many over the years, but some may be surprised to learn the former

first lady has often needed inspiration herself. >> one of the things that surprise surprise ed me in the book and was also mentioned five or six times was this feeling of you thinking i'm not good enough? >> it's a lifetime journey for us as women because it's so -- it's imprinted on us in so many ways. anywhere we go in the world we find women who are struggling with their own identity and their sense of purpose, and their value, and i am no exception. >> but you're not saying to yourself -- you know you're good enough? >> i think i've grown up a little, i think i've grown out of it a little bit. but you know what, there's still the sort of let me get this right. i can't mess up. >> now out of the white house and with two daughters set to strike out on their own, mrs. obama says she's ready for her next stage of becoming. >> the question that i ask my husband is, okay, let's make sure we're making time to enjoy the life that we've been working for, and we're going to be empty nesters soon. >> i know.

>> so you know, look out, empty house. >> does that mean things going to go wild? >> who knows. i can feel in both of my girls that they were ready for the next step, and i'm excited for them to go to their next part of the journey. and i told them no matter where you go, i'll drop in whenever i need to see you. i'll find you. i can audit classes at that university. >> that's every college girl's dream is to see their mother -- >> just texting lol. >> exactly. >> guess who's in town. >> that'd be pretty funny. >> can you imagine her just showing up on a college campus? >> oh, no, no. you know, i want to go back to something in your piece there. your father's ability to have this relationship with someone, and i would assume their political views don't align, but they seem to sort of lean into her in that hug in that picture we've seen so many times.

why do you think that is? what is it about the two of them that makes it possible to have that kind of relationship? >> first of all, it's protocol. they sit next to each other. that's part of what happens at all these events, so they have the chance to be close to each other, but also they have similar personalities. they're funny. they're warm. they like to laugh. i think they're both joyous people. they find the comfort in being joyous, and so it's like, you know, not everything, i know we're here, this is all about politics, but not everything is about politics. >> amen to that. >> it can be about friendship and about the core of people and so, yeah, that hug is pretty great. >> michelle obama is still very young. any idea of how she is going to spend the next few decades of her life in the public eye? >> yeah, i mean, from talking with her yesterday, her joy c e comes from being with young people. when i read her book i actually thought she would have been a really great teacher. i'm a former teacher, and she said that's where she's happiest is talking with young people, being with young people because they provide her hope and

optimism, which don't we all need a little bit of that? >> amen, especially these days. i love to hear how you and your sister barbara years ago flew to the white house to help show the obama girls the ropes. that was nice. >> it was a really important day. i said yesterday when we were talking, we saw ourselves in them. they were the same age that we were when my grandfather was inaugurated and then later they became teens just like us dealing with navigating and not perfectly on our end the issues of being a teenager in the spotlight. it wasn't always graceful, and you probably remember. >> i remember some of it, but i would say that it's turned out really well for you and your sister. the girls, the obama girls, how are they doing? >> great. she's so proud of them. you know what's great, they've been allowed to have a normal life. we left them alone. good job, craig. >> we did leave them alone. that's one rule we all played by. >> we'll see you tomorrow morning on "today".

>> yep. you can come by anytime. >> and talk politics? i like it. >> thank you. we're going to make a turn here when we come back, the death toll climbing in those fires that are just ravaging california right now. they say those warnings were too little too late. our own steve patterson remains on the ground for us there in california. steve. >> reporter: craig, this is an unprecedented crisis. we've said time and again with thousands of homes burned to the ground, dozens still missing, and now new questions about what happened when that fire broke out. we'll explore that coming up next. (bright electronic music) - [announcer] powerful cleaning. that's what you expect from shark, and our newest robot vacuum is no exception. from floors to carpets, it tackles all kinds of debris, even pet hair, with ease. but what about cleaning above the floor? that's why we created the shark ion robot cleaning system,

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a disturbing new report from the fbi revealing statistics on hate creams in this country over the past year. more than 7,100 hate crimes were reported to the fbi last year. that's a 17% increase over 2016. the acting attorney general issuing a response that reads in part, quote, this report is a call to action, and we will heed that call. the department of justice's top priority is to reduce violent crime in america and hate crimes are violent crimes. they are also despicable violations of our core values as americans. again, that's coming from the acting a.g., let's bring in

"washington post" political reporter. eugene scott, yamiche alcindor is back. they show the crimes based on race, ethnicity or ancestry rose nearly 60% last year. when you look at the numbers, based on some of the things that this president has said and not said as well, easy to connect the surge and the president's rhetoric. is that fair? how much is he perhaps the cause or symptom of something larger? >> it's certainly not fair to blame the president for all of the behavior of these individuals who have committed hate crimes, but if you go on some of these websites where white supremacists frequent and violent individuals go to comment, they have acknowledged that they now feel safe and empowered to say and behave in ways that are deemed hateful in part because of the rhetoric that came from the president. we've seen that most of these crimes specifically target race

and ethnicity, and we have to remember from the day the president announced his candidacy for president, he called people of color specifically mexican immigrants, drug dealers and rapists and dangerous individuals involved in criminal activity, including violent activity. some of these individuals have lashed out against people of color because of those types of words. >> yamiche, you asked the president at his news conference last week about the impact of his rhetoric. it was an eye opening exchange. i want to play part of it for our viewers and listeners. >> on the campaign trail you called yourself a nationalist. some people saw that as emboldening white nationalists. >> that's such a racist question. >> what did you take from the president's reaction there? >> well, i talked to white house aides afterwards, and they basically said that the president gets really, really angry at the fact that people even ask the question of whether or not he feels like he's em boldening white nationalists.

they say it's really not what the president wants to do. of course i think there was a lot of frustration there and the reason he lashed out and called it a racist question i think had to do with the fact that he really didn't want to answer the question because there are, of course, i've interviewed white nationalists who say they're very excited about president trump because of his words, because of things he said. i had a white nationalist tell me he'd never been more excited about a president than president trump. that says something about the rhetoric he's using. that says something about the idea of the caravan, when that was being used as a midterm strategy, the fact that there are thousands of troops now sitting on the border waiting for this large group of immigrants that's thousands of miles away. i think there's that issue there that the president doesn't really want to address because i'm not sure if he intends, of course, to embolden these white nationalists or if he just sees it as a political tool and doesn't want to fully knock these people off and say i don't want anything to do with you

because he feels like there is some political power there. >> you mentioned the caravan, by the way. we should note that there has been very little talk of the caravan from this president, from this white house since the end of the midterms. you have covered your fair share of crimes that are race-based. i was there with you in ferguson, missouri. you have -- you've been to a number of those kinds of stories unfortunately, and politicians frequently like to ask the question, are we better off than we were a year ago? based on the numbers that we're seeing here in this fbi report, based on your own experiences, are the divides that lead to violence in this country getting better, or are they getting worse? >> i think the statistics show us that the divide in america is getting worse. the fbi says that the number of hate crimes has spiked since 2016, so it's not last year, it was the year before that, and then you look at polling that

the naacp has put out and african-americans and hispanic-americans are feeling more anxious than ever about president trump. they think he's passing policies to hurt african-americans. that's pretty remarkable. it's not just that they don't support him because african-americans have tended to vote for democrats, but it's the fact that african-americans actually think that this president and the republican party led by president trump could be detrimental to their lives. if you have numbers that show that people are being -- or experiencing more rate crimehat that tells us something is going on there. the president and the white house say they want to do all that they can. matt whitaker says this is a call to action, but i'm just not sure what the white house is actually going to do. >> eugene, you wrote about the historic firsts that were achieved last week in the midterm elections, and this is part of what you wrote, big wins for lgbtq candidates, the first muslims and native americans

lebted elected to congress, giving diverse groups a voice in the process. what does that do to the temperature, if you will, across the country? >> well, at least on the democratic side it should change representation and the conversations that get had at the table because there will be more people at the table who look more like americans. we see native americans, women, immigrants, people of color, and that should definitely influence policy and push back on some of the ideas coming forward that these groups of americans find problematic. on the republican side, if you look at the class day photos from those who were elected to the house, they don't look so much like america and don't have representation from these groups who do feel threatened by the rhetoric coming out of the white house. that should impact the conversation or lack of happening in that chamber. >> a big thanks to you both. eugene scott always enjoy having you. yamiche, thanks for pulling double duty, i guess triple duty

because you'll be on pbs this evening. let's turn to california and the wildfires. the death toll continues to rise. at least 50 people are dead now, at least 200 remain missing. meanwhile, right now more than 70,000 people are in the path of two major fires in northern and southern california, the woolsey fire and the camp fire. steve patterson joins us from chico, california. there are now reports of some of the survivors there saying that the warnings to evacuate from authorities were essentially too little too late. what more can you tell us about that? >> reporter: craig, as we've been saying the town of paradise has been almost completely wiped off the map. when we have spoken to survivors it's been in those little towns and cities that surround paradise and at the evacuation camps that we've been able to get to. you know, when survivors do see the peacock, they come up to us,

usually with stories of abject loss, you know, personal stories of survival, but lately over the last few days we have heard a lot of anger that there was little in the way of warnings, if any at all, and so obviously survivors worried about what happened the day that firestorm erupted. keep in mind, paradise is something of a retirement, sort of a peaceful community, a place to hang up your boots at the end of the day because, you know, frankly a lot of california is so expensive. this is an affordable place where you had a lot of retirees, so you would imagine that a warning system more important than ever, than any place you could imagine, 27,000 residents in paradise. much of the town destroyed. there are questions now. we've spoken to people personally who wonder where was the warning. there's been some reporting on this from a team of nbc news reporters. i haven't personally spoken to butte county emergency, but we have had a team speak to them.

they did say that there was 25,000 calls made, 5,400 text messages sent out to folks. i'm not sure exactly where these numbers break down to, but butte county says there was an attempt made to warn people. they also said that this fire behavior is unlike anything we've ever seen. we've heard that consistently. huge firestorm comes in waves. it gets attracted to things that would be flammable. those go up, and then the rest of the town stays intact. that didn't happen in that case, probably added to what happened in, you know, when that firestorm erupted but it's not known exactly what corners were hit, and then what warnings were had barring an investigation, obviously which will happen after this mess is cleaned up, craig. >> steve patterson for us there in chico. thank you. here's something to make you smile. those wildfires, they're ravaging california, but the san francisco 49ers gave the paradise high school team, they

gave them something to smile about. take a look, the 49ers bus that school's football team, coaches and cheerleaders, some 200 miles to santa clara. they got to watch the monday night football game, meet the nfl team, and even join them on the field. the paradise bobcats, they had to cut their season short because of the camp fire. despite tragedy back at home, for one night they were able to enjoy the experience of a lifetime. >> seeing those guys was very emotional. they made it out alive, all our coaches made it out. it's a miracle. >> 49ers also auctioning off jerseys from monday night's game. proceeds will go to support victims of the camp fire. special counsel talking impeachment and opposing party control of the house. what does the clinton scandal, what does it tell us about where we are with the mueller probe? we're going to talk to one of the reporters at the forefront covering this story. and congress back in session

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majority in the house. it is estimated now that democrats will hold at least 231 seats in the house, the republicans 204. at the center of the democratic victory current minority leader nancy pelosi. she expects that she will be elected speaker. many party newcomers say they're not so sure pelosi is the right person to lead the party in 2019 and beyond. let's turn to msnbc national political correspondent steve kornac kornacki. he needs no introduction, but he's with us to break it down. five key takeaways from the midterms, what are they? >> biggest one for democrats is the suburbs. these higher income white collar professional areas, they didn't like trump to begin with, and now it seems like they're taking it out on the entire republican party. give you a sense of the some of the democratic pickups here. here's an example. here was a pickup for democrats, republican district, this district right in kansas city

suburbs, republican incumbent thrown out of office, suburban voters. we saw this all over the place. another one, colorado 6 right outside denver, republican incumbent. he managed to survive in 2016 even as donald trump wasn't doing great in his district, but two years later voters in the suburbs of denver say it's not just trump. it's his party. that's a big story here. democrats in those districts clinton won in 2016, they expanded it to some other suburbs, in the south particularly outside atlanta, outside dallas, outside houston. that's a significant thing. also, though, the rust belt here, we talked so much in 2016 about donald trump and those gains he made in those blue collar areas sort of from the western maine all the way out to iowa. interestingly, here's this district right up here. we have not called yet, we're waiting for a runoff here in this district, an instant runoff they call it, but maine, too, here is a congressional district that donald trump carried and won an electoral vote in, very

blue collar, very working class. you see the republican incumbent clinging to a lead. they're going to do a top two runoff. there's the possibility there that their democrat ends up winning this race. there are some democratic gains in the rust belt, some democratic gains in that trump zone, that blue collar trump zone. the question is how much is this still going to be in play in 2020 when trump is back on the ballot? is this the kind of district trump can win back in 2020? he's certainly going to need to if he's going to get reelected. florida, florida, florida, really close in 2016, trump pulled it out. looks like we'll see when these recounts are finalized, republicans might have still pulled out florida. that's the biggest single loss that holds for democrats. new democratic party, you've got all these new faces, more women than ever in particular. that's going to be a thing to watch. of course the question here, donald trump the third president in the last generation to come to office with majority in the

house and to see that majority vanish in his first midterm. the first two clinton and bomb recover -- and obama recovered in one election. >> thank you so much for that. more than 20 years after the clinton scandal, i'm going to talk to two reporters who are experts on this country's biggest political scandal since watergate. watergate. that's a win. but it's not the only reason i switched. the geico app makes it easy to manage my policy. i can pay my bill, add a new driver, or even file a claim. woo, hey now! that's a win-win. thank you! switch to geico®. it's a win-win. with my bladder leakage, the products i've tried just didn't fit right. they were too loose. it's getting in the way of our camping trips. but with a range of sizes, depend fit-flex is made for me. with a range of sizes for all body types, depend fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit.

this just in, more than a dozen media outlets filing statements in support of cnn's lawsuit against the white house. cnn and its reporter jim acosta are fighting a white house ban. nbc news, fox news, "politico" and others are among those who signed. they write in part, quote, our news organizations support the fundamental constitutional right to question this president or any president. the stakes are high when investigations involve the president of the united states. in the new a and e documentary, the clinton affair premiering on sunday, an emotional monica lewinsky opens up about her trying times in the spotlight

and what it was like to be interviewed by the fbi for more than 20 hours. >> i would be hysterically crying and then i would just shut down, and in the shutdown period i remember looking out theshutdown. and in the shutdown period i remember looking out the window and thinking that the only way to fix this was to kill myself, and was to the jump out of the window. i felt terrible. i was scared and i just, i was mortified and afraid of what this is going to do to my family. and, you know, i don't -- i was still in love with bill at the time, and soy felt really responsible. >> a staff writer at slate is also the coproducer of the hit podcast "slow burn."

and mike is kof is a msnbc contributor and mike, the new boo book, "uncovering clinton" and i apologize. >> it is not new, craig. >> it is written 20 years ago, and getting a little bit more attention recently. >> and there is the book on the screen. and let me start with this podcast that i have fallen in love with "slow burn" and back to the 90s when you could not escape the clinton investigation, and i want to play you a clip of the podcast. here it is. >> all eyes are on the fbi crime lab in washington, and tests are under way on a navy blue cocktail dress which lieu with wen ski turned over as evidence with her relationship with the president. >> on the night of august 3rd, the president left a formal dinner party in a tuxedo and went to meet ken starr, and there they stood watch as a white house doctor drew a 4 mill leet ers blood sample from

clinton the's right arm. with his scheduled appearance before starr's grand jury coming up in just a few weeks, clinton was cornered. >> with the podcast, what surprised you the most in the course of the investigation? >> well, i guess that looking back at it, what surprised me most was how consumed the country was, and maybe it is not so surprising that this story which has so many elements that people want to hear about sex obviously, and lying and deception and adultery that it would be so pervasive in the culture but looking back at the news coverage and the cultural coverage on late night shows, and it was everywhere and the country was obsessed with it. >> why has the podcast been so successful? what is it that you have alluded to it there, i guess, but why do you think that it is that there are so many people who are still so interested in something that happened really so long ago now if you think about it? >> well, one reason is that a lot of the people in the story i

are still in the public eye. obviously, hillary clinton just ran for president, and another reason is that we are at a moment now where people are ready now and eager to the revisit these events through new eyes. and people have changed a lot of the ways they think about power imbalances between men and women and particularly in the workplace, and people are eager to apply some of the new ideas to the thing that the country went through under very d different circumstances. >> this is when i came to know michael issa kof as a journalist as well. and in terms of the length of the clinton white wwater investigation is the longest compared to iran contra and you were there and the russian probe as well, and now, talk to us about how ken starr and bob mueller is approaching the job and the difference. >> and the biggest difference is that ken starr was not a professional prosecutor. he had been a judge and

solicitor general and no prosecutorial experience and compared to bob moouler who has been a professional prosecutor all of his life. and so you can see that starr really didn't have the experience, background to make a lot of the critical judgments about what he was doing to do, and what he shouldn't be doing, and how far to the take things, and that is reflected in some of the most controversial decision s, and the most controversial decision of all was of course to get involved in the lewinski matter in the first place. he had been appointed to the investigate the land deal, and whitewater, and that investigation dragged on for years, and then the lewinski thing came along and to the surprise of many, and including myself at the time ken starr jumped on it. >> michael isikof is in your

podcast. and what other the parallels would you draw with the mueller probe? >> the one that comes to mind right away is the public relations war that was waged against the starr team against the surrogates and the media, and i think that a lot of the rhetoric that you heard back then has been echoed by the trump administration and the friend of trump who go on tv and rail against the witch hunt, but one difference related to that is that whereas the mueller team has bn een absolutely quiet in terms of defending the sbeg are ri the ti of the investigation, and very disciplined i gather not speaking to the the reporters and we don't know much of what is going on in the office, and the starr team -- >> they leaked a lot. >> yes, accused of leaking quite a lot, and michael may know more about that than i do. >> and michael, your perspective is unique here as you watch us collectively sort of rehash if not relitigate to a certain extent what happened in the

country a few decades ago, and what do you make of it, this new lenses with which we are viewing it? >> what is striking to me is that these events are being view ed through new eyes fortwo reasons, and number one is that we have a president who a segment of the country would like to impeach now. so, a lot of people are looking back at historical precedent and what is the ground for impeachment, and you know, the clinton the one is obviously the most recent in the past, and the point there is the three cases where we have had serious impeachment moves against the president, and andrew johnson and richard nixon and bill clinton, and there is always a legal context to it. allegation that the president had violated the law, and -- >> thank you so much for coming

up here. and sorry about, that and michael, thank you, and leon as well. we will be right back as well. we will be right bac . ♪ ♪ i'm all for my neighborhood. i'm all for backing the community that's made me who i am. i'm all for my theatre, my barbershop and my friends. because the community doesn't just have small businesses, it is small businesses. and that's why american express founded small business saturday. so, this year let's all get up, get out and shop small on november 24th. i got croissant. small business saturday. a small way to make a big difference.

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amarin thanks the clinicians and patients who participated i am a techie dad.n. i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. "andrea mitchell reports" starts radiorig s right now. >> and starting now, a house divided. the first lady is calling on her husband to fire a top the security aide as more rumors swirl about a cabinet shake-up.