tv MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin MSNBC November 15, 2018 8:00am-9:00am PST
gr g grats to our friends and colleagues. always good to see you. craig melvin msnbc headquarters deflect, a rare inside look at facebook and how it handled crisis after crisis involving russian trolls and hackers. i'll talk to one of the reporters behind the story about the fallout at the highest levels of the social media giants skpnch giants. and trump attacks, he's getting closer to turning over answers to robert mueller's questions, the president's now going after mueller calling his investigation a mess right as it starts to heat up again. and race, gender and power. democrat just pulled off that big win taking control of the house, but as they should be celebrating in unity, some are tearing each other down with accusations of racism and sexism wi in the fight for party leadership. we'll get to that in just a moment. we start with major facebook fatigue online and in washington.
a damning new report from the "new york times." facebook already reeling from multiple privacy controversies as well as public outcries for intense regulation that could take aim at the heart of its data-driven business. now comes "the times" report which focuses a harsh light on the decisions made by facebook's top two leaders, mark zuckerberg and cheryl sandberg, specifically about candidate donald trump's language and russian influence and also decisions about how it tackled criticisms over privacy, quote, bent on growth. the pair ignored warning signs and then sought to conceal them from public view. one of the co-authors of this intense long read based on interviews with more than 50 people, malcolm nance is an msnbc contributor, derrick thompson writes about technology
for "the atlantic" and dylan byers is a senior media reporter for nbc news. a big thanks to all of you. some big findings here. your story says on two occasions facebook appeared to stand down from action so republicans wouldn't get angry. they didn't respond to the president's muslim ban post. quote, one top official, joel kaplan told the company, quote, don't poke the bear. and then there was the russian influence, your story says officials first spotted in the spring of 2016. tell us about that and how they handled it. >> hey, craig, so what happened here is that the company got early warning signs as early as spring of 2016 of what became a large campaign of russian interference on the network, but they kept it inside the company as more and more evidence was growing that their own people were finding, and they didn't tell anyone outside the company or acknowledge it or even tell
their own board until the fall of 2016, which is long after election day. so more than a year they sat on this problem. they tried to make some fixes internally, but they down played it publicly, and when they finally admitted it, they had to keep revising what they were saying and admitting it was worse and worse. the main reason for this, craig, and it's important because these companies are commonly thought of as literal is they were afraid to poke the bear. they were afraid to antagonize president trump and antagonize republicans who then controlled congress and still do until january. >> george soros pops up in your story the, quote, facebook also used a conservative research firm called definers to take on bigger opponents such as mr. soros, a long-time boogeyman, the mainstream conservatives and the target of anti-semitic smears on the far right. why were they going after george soros? >> the main reason is that soros went after them. he had a big speech at davos where he criticized them as mow
notary public lis -- saying they lost their sense of responsibility, they were hurting democracy. naturally facebook wanted some pushback on this critic, and they hired a capable pr firm, which then did what you would normally see with big companies when they're under attack. they did research from public records. they looked at tax documents, and they tried to get reporters to write about the fact that there were a lot of groups that were critical of facebook that had some funding from soros, and they wanted that connection, the problem for facebook of course as we all know now, is that they started doing this just shortly before the typical criticism of soros became jumbled up in this terrible smear about the caravan and a wave of anti-semitic attacks on soros. it makes the company look bad to be on the edges of that. >> what's been the reaction from facebook to these allegations to the rest of the story? have we gotten a reaction? >> we have gotten a reaction.
compliments to nick and all of his colleagues on what is truly an incredible report here and sheds a lot of light on the company. facebook was silent when this bomb dropped. early this morning they came out with a statement that was very political in nature insofar as it started with listing what they said were a number of inaccuracies in the piece, you know, about when they addressed the russia problem, questions about the muslim ban and how that was treated on the platform. none of those points of argument change the fact that the real issue here, which is that facebook at first said we don't have a problem. we have a problem but we're not going tell anyone about the problem. okay, we're going to start to tell people about the problem, but we're going to down play the problem. okay, fine, we've got a problem, and now we're going to go on the attack. now we're going to go after our critics. now we're going to go after george soros. now we're going to go after other tech companies and say, hey, what about them and try and lobby folks on capitol hill to go after our competitors.
the whole thing just reeks of a company of mismanagement, frankly on the part of mark zuckerberg and cheryl sandberg, and the significant thing i would point out there, mark zuckerberg has been under the lights for 18 months for all of the controversies that facebook has dealt with. cheryl sandberg has avoided that and now this is when people are saying what responsibility does she bear for the company's failures? >> i want to remind folks what zuckerberg said himself in his senate testimony last year, specifically about the russian influence. here he is. >> for as long as russia has people who are employed who are trying to perpetrate this kind of interference, it will be hard for us to guarantee that we're going to fully stop everything, but it's an arm's race, and i think that we're making ground. >> so it seems like russia, prooifs p privacy issue in general, it always feels like facebook makes promises and then the record catches up and they have to explain.
>> there's two tragic ironies here. the first is that facebook got in trouble because in 2015 and 2016 they were caught amplifying emotional conspiracy theories, and they responded now to their getting caught by amplifying emotional conspiracy theories about figures like george soros. that's irony number one, number two, facebook's slogan from the beginning has been, it's well-known, move fast and break things. if they're looking far six word slogan for the future, i think it should be break things, get caught and move fast. they pride themselves on being proactive. it's not. on this issue it has consistently been reactive. mark zuckerberg has sought to internalize all the problems at this company and then media exposes like the one that's been brilliantly reported by nick and his "new york times" colleagues have caught facebook and forced it to act responsibly. that's not the way a good company should be run. a good company should figure out how to change itself before it gets caught again and again and again. >> malcolm, i want to read a
statement from the congressman who could very well chair the committee that oversees antitrust law. quote, facebook cannot be trusted to regulate itself. the staggering report makes clear that facebook executives will always put their massive profits ahead of the interests of their customers. what is the appetite for regulating facebook and others like facebook, malcolm, and how would you even go about doing that? >> well, you know, facebook likes to see itself as a commodity that is above government to where they don't see themselves as being part of the media infrastructure. they see themselves as being wholly independent of that. i suspect that this is the last call for facebook's belief in that system. the democratic party, when they come back into power in january, are going to see them as a weaponized platform against democracy, and to be quite honest, george soros was right in his speech about facebook not
being, you know, not even being loyal to its customers, but being loyal to the truth, and not being loyal to the truth, and being, you know, more beholden to the bottom line literally helped them attack democracy through a foreign power. but now we see with this brilliant report, and it is a brilliant report, i mean, from the intelligence community's perspective, you know, this took a lot of work to deceive and deny at the level they were at, and then to go a route of hiring a conservative opposition group to carry out the same troeps and mimes that russian intelligence was weaponizing facebook with, i think they're going to be a critically damaged organization here, certainly after january. >> dylan or derrick, we've actually talked about this before, this idea, regulating facebook. how do you even classify what the company is? is facebook, is it a platform? is it a media company? is it a sales? like what is it, and how do we
regulate it if we decides that's where we want to go in terms of regulation? >> what is it is like one of these fiphilosophical questions. i would say it's a data binding company. >> it's a data mining company is perfectly right. one way to look at it is to say look, this is essentially a way that people are consuming information, paying attention, and paying with their data, then we should find ways to regulation exactly what kind of data facebook can glean and what they can do with that data. >> that's right. but the problem with regulating facebook is exactly what you're talking about, which is congress hasn't even figured out how to define facebook yet. and i have talked to senators who will tell you we are always going to be way behind on this issue because they are still trying to catch up with what happened in 2016. meanwhile, the people who are abusing facebook's platform are already thinking about 2020, so they're always going to be behind on this. >> lawmakers may be having a
hard time defining it, but they are certainly talking about this bomb shell new report. this is minnesota senator amy klobuchar just a few moments ago. >> i'm going to be sending a letter to facebook and to the justice department today to ask about the hiring of consultants and research firms to go after critics of facebook. what i want to know in addition to the information that was in the "new york times" is did they also go after political opponents as in people who work in congress, as in elected officials. >> nick confessiore, what do we know about that? >> i'm not sure what she's referring to exactly there, but i do know that cheryl sandberg had a relationship with the senator, and when the senator put out a bill that would be the first bill to regulate and require disclosure of who bought ads on facebook, she got a pretty angry phone call from cheryl sandberg who felt that she was, you know, being too
critical of the company, and they have been friendly before. so you can see there are these relationships here, but it really goes to the policy problem that derrick was talking about earlier, craig. there is no national privacy law, and there's no regulation that applies to the disclosure of who buys advertising. if i'm the russian government, and i try to buy a political ad on msnbc or a local tv station, there's going to be a record of it at the station, a written record i can go look up. facebook didn't have that. they now have it on a self-dealing base where they do it themselves rather, i should say, but there is nothing that governs their business, and as our friend said, their business is commercial surveillance and advertising, and facebook is the loss leader. it's not the core product. >> one of the most fascinating part os of this story for me is the part of the story that seemed the pettiest, tim cook, quote, mr. cook's criticism infuriated mr. zuckerberg, who
later ordered his management team to only use android phones arguing that the operating system had far more users than apple's. facebook has said this is something they've long encouraged employees to do. it seems petty? >> look, so the argument there at the time which was over the summer, well, android is the biggest operating system. but that's been true for a couple of years before this order came down. it just goes to show you in this world of silicon valley, even -- doesn't show his cards much like mark zuckerberg. feelings can be bruised and barbs between the titans can wound. >> solid reporting. thank you so much. always enjoy your perspective sir, derrick thompson, dylan byers thank you as well. by the way, dylan, it's great news, dylan byers has the buyers market news letter. it's a behind the scenes look at the four corners of influence in this country, new york, d.c.,
hollywood and silicon valley. you can sign up on nbcnews.com/thebuyersmarket. >> i hope more people start to enjoy president trump putting robert mueller on blast as he's about to hand over answers to mueller's questions. and race, gender and power, are racism, sexism, playing a part in the fight for power among house democrats. and across the aisle, as we get ready to seat a new congress, is there a chance, a chance that bipartisanship may be ready to make a comeback? we're going to look at one issue where there does appear to be some hope. hope. medicare is great, but it doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medicare costs, which means you may have to pay for the rest. that's where medicare supplement insurance comes in: to help pay for some of what medicare doesn't. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan,
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president trump today lashing out at the mueller investigation in a series of tweets this morning the president writing in part, the inner workings of the mueller investigation are a total mess. they have found no collusion and have gone absolutely nuts. these are angry people, a total witch hunt like no other in american history. and there was some other tweets as well. phil rucker "the washington post," and msnbc political analyst joining me now. the president adding another tweet this morning. this one is where he really kind of calls out just about everyone he's accused of being against him over the past two years. just throws them all in one tweet, sort of a mad libs thing here actually. here's the thing, this isn't the first time we've seen this from
the president, he's tweeted about collusion more than 100 times since becoming president. he's only tweeted about mueller since mid-september until today. what's your sense of what's behind these tweets? >> yeah, now that the midterm elections are over, mueller's investigation is heating up more intensively, and this week trump has been considering his answers to those questions that mueller has had, spending some time with his lawyers and presumably that is the mueller probe, the russia investigation is top of mind for him. that's why you saw the series of tweets this morning. he's clearly perturbed by the state of the investigation, and the backdrop here in washington is without a lot of concrete information there's a sense in trump's orbit and in the broader sort of legal community that there could be indictments to come in the next days or weeks in this probe, and so i think trump is just feeling the pressure from this investigation, and he's also thinking ahead to january when
democrats are going to take over control of the house of representatives and launch some of their own investigations. >> the president having a quiet week as well, very few events on the public schedule. is that also why he has been so quiet we surmise? >> well, i don't know why he's been so quiet, but you're right that there have been few events on the public schedule. there was a trip that the homeland security secretary nielsen made to the border yesterday, and there was an initial plan, at least for the president to go with her. he did not make that trip. he's had only a few public appearances this week. he's not left the white house compound at all this week, including on monday, which was veterans day, and so it might be that he's getting some rest, but he's also been having a lot of conversations and deliberations with his team about changes to the staff, a staff shake-up, changes in the cabinet as well. >> there was wednesday of course this public dispute between the national security official and first lady melania trump. it ended with the departure of
that national security adviser. how unusual was that, phil, and what drove the first lady's office to bring that dispute public? >> well, the first lady, her and her team, rather have had a dispute for several months now with the deputy national security adviser. she's the number two to john bolton and has had a reputation inside the white house and the administration really as being a bit of a bureaucratic knife fighter on behalf of bolton. the first la dispute regarding arrangements for her trip to africa last month, specifically the seating arrangement on the plane and whether there would be room on the first lady's plane for national security council staff and that just, you know, became a touch stone for the two of them and became a source of conflict between the east wing staff and ricardel to the point
where we saw that extraordinary statement on wednesday saying that the first lady's office does not believe she deserves the honor of serving in this white house, and last night came word she had been removed. >> phil rucker, "washington post," always a pleasure, sir. >> thank you, craig. moments ago the u.s. treasury department sanctioned 17 individuals for their role in the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi. it comes right after saudi arabia's top prosecutor recommended that the death penalty be pursued for five saudis charged with ordering and carrying out that killing. the prosecutor said a team of saudi agents was dispatched to istanbul with orders to bring khashoggi to saudi arabia alive and but instead killed and dismembered him last month. the prosecutor's statement said crown prince mohammad bin sal man had no knowledge of the operation. turkish officials said the saudi investigation falls short of uncovering the truth.
jockeying for power, i'll talk to congressman jim clyburn about accusations of racial dog whistles being used to pick house leaders. ng used to pick house leaders. ♪ traders -- they're always looking for advantages. the smart ones look to fidelity to find them. we give you research and data-visualization tools to help identify potential opportunities. so, you can do it this way... or get everything you need to help capture investment ideas and make smarter trading decisions with fidelity for just $4.95 per online u.s. equity trade. fidelity. open an account today. ♪ open an account today. when did you see the sign? when i needed to create a better visitor experience. improve our workflow.
moments ago congresswoman nancy pelosi speaking on capitol hill saying that she is confident she has the votes to be speaker and that she has overwhelming support. that was just a few moments ago. there's this new reporting from our friend robert acosta from "the washington post," marsha fudge says she is overwhelmed by the support from many of her colleagues as she weighs a bid for speaker. also happening, congress james cliburn is accusing detractors of using racially charged dog whistles to undermine his position. cliburn said, quote, i don't know where it's all coming from but someone came to me over the weekend and told many when i was -- he also alleges he was called token. he's the only black member of the leadership team in congress. here to sort it all out, who
better than congressman james cliburn, assistant democratic leader and jake sherman, coa co-author of political playbook. this idea again from ms. pelosi that she's got the votes and this reporting that marsha fudge of ohio says she's been overwhelmed by support. who is it? >> thank you is o'muso much for me. i think you know i have been supporting nancy pelosi throughout this campaign. i've supported her throughout her leadership bids, and i'll continue to support her. marsha fudge is a very good friend, and i like so many others here on the hill saw her ruminating last night about this, i spoke with her at length this morning, and she's still ruminating, and so there's no announcement. she's not a candidate. she knows that i'm supporting nancy pelosi, and she tells me this morning she continues to
support me very vigorously to be the whip in the next congress. and so i think that we'll see how all of this plays out. in these leadership races you have these kinds of things to pop up throughout the process, and i suspect you'll have some more before we get to a vote. >> i want to go back to that mcclatchy article. your contention here that some of your colleagues are using dog whistles and words like token, what do you make of that? do you think there's actually something there, or do you think that that just might just be rumor? >> i don't think it's rumor at all. i do think that those words were used because it's not the first time. when i ran for whip before, i heard some of that. people were saying to me that an african-american did not have the capacity to raise the kind of money that you need to raise in that capacity. i proved them all wrong then.
in this cycle we heard some of the same stuff. my goal was to raise $1.5 million for dccc. i raised over $7 million. my dues are $600,000 a year, my pay $750,000 in dues, and i gave directly to other candidates and fellow colleagues $1.1 million directly from my bank account into theirs, so this whole notion that i'm some kind of -- or was some kind of a token is a bunch of poppycock. you expect those things to be used, and i expect to hear dog whistles in campaigns. i never expect to hear it coming from friends and supporters of my colleagues. >> and to be clear, these are democrats we're talking about, too right? we're not talking about folks on the other side of the aisle? >> well, what i heard over the weekend and it was saturday when i got a phone call from a colleague saturday, saying that
that was being repeated by a fellow democrat. where that person got it from, i don't know. now, the person i don't think was here when i was house majority whip before and probably repeating something somebody told them. as we say down south where you and i are from, i let my work speak for me. >> amen to that. let me bring in shake sherman f -- jake sherman. i want to call our viewers and listeners on sirius satellite radio, i want to call their attention to this cnn poll. it shows that democratic voters are almost evenly split over whether pelosi should be speaker. 44% say pelosi is the best choice, 46% saying they would prefer a different democrat. here's the thing, in the upper chamber chuck schumer loses a seat or two, no one's calling for chuck schumer's head. democrats pick up 35 seats and you've got a significant number
of people saying nancy pelosi shouldn't be the speaker. why is that? >> that's a good question. republicans have spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars over the last decade or so beating up on nancy pelosi in campaigns around the country. i was on the road for almost all of october, and every single place i went nancy pelosi was a campaign issue that republicans had introduced into the race. if you talk to nancy pelosi's supporters and i'm sure mr. clyburn would agree with this, that some of the animus toward pelosi is because republicans are forcing democrats to answer whether they support her. now, whether you are a supporter of nancy pelosi's or not, the nancy pelosi, jim clyburn and hoyer leadership team from 2010 to 2012 passed massive pieces of legislation into law. whether you like them or not, you have to recognize that the health care call, the wall street dod frank bill and they passed a climate bill that died in the senate. these were big pieces of legislation that took a lot of muscling to get through
congress. there's no question they are an efficient team. what a lot of democrats i've been talking to over the last couple of days, what they want to hear is what does it mean that nancy pelosi will be a transitional figure. could she put a little bit more meat on those bones. that is something she has offered up. what does she mean by that, and how long is that transition? no matter what you think of pelosi or anybody in the leadership, there definitely is a sense that they want to transition to a younger generation, although i think everybody would agree that younger generation has not been groomed because they've not been in the leadership circle yet, and there's a lot that you learn once you're in the leadership that you don't really know in the rank and file. >> jake, let's put your question to the congressman. this idea congressman clyburn that ms. pelosi is going to be a transitional leader. what does that mean? how do you understand that? >> nancy has said that and so have i have. in fact, i may have been the first one to use the term transitional. i believe in that.
i come out of a region of the country where it's pretty difficult to practice progressive politics, but we have survived it, and i believe very strongly that in a combination of capacity and wisdom in order to get us to where we need to be, and i think that's what transition means. the young people coming in have the capacity, and we should start giving them the practical experience that is needed to develop the wisdom and the know-how to move forward, and if i'm elected the democratic whip, i will be immediately building a stable of whips of young people who will learn how to count votes. who will learn how to interact with fellow members both on our side and across the aisle in order to be effective legislators and effective
officers and leadership positions going forward. that's what transition means to me. to immediately put in place a process by which this can begin to occur. >> congressman clyburn thank you. jake sherman always good to have you as well. >> thanks, craig. new exclusive reporting from the nbc news today. a veteran's affairs official has been reassigned over those delayed gi bill payments that potentially affected hundreds of thousands of veterans for months. computer problems at the v.a. have caused some veterans to face debt or even homelessness. democrats have requested that the v.a. provide updates every two weeks until the problem is resolved. it's an issue that leads to some strange alliances since both republicans and democrats tend to agree we need criminal justice reform. so why aren't we seeing more action from our lawmakers? we'll dig into that. i've got two men standing by, a former obama insider working
with a cook industry's big wig, bipartisansh bipartisanship, is it making a comeback? we'll look at that with steve patterson live in chico, california to introduce us to some people on the ground who are working to help families who have lost literally everything. you ok there, kurt? we're about to move. karate helps... relieve some of the house-buying... stress. at least you don't have to worry about homeowners insurance. call geico. geico... helps with... homeowners insurance? been doing it for years. i'm calling geico right now. good idea! get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. i saw my leg did not look right. i landed. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung.
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least 56. it is the deadliest wildfire in california history, and now hundreds of camp fire evacuees are turning a walmart parking lot into a tent city as many families have temporary left or been made homeless due to the blazes. volunteers, they've started cooking, and they have started distributing free food to neighbors in need. let's go to chico, california. that is where we find steve patterson. he is at a restaurant where an organization world central kitchen is pitching in to help, and steve, this is what we love to see people doing in times like this, lending a hand. >> reporter: and lending a hand is so necessary in this crisis. you're talking about as we've been saying, you know, the death toll 56, hundreds of people still missing. thousands of firefighters battling the flames on the front lines, hundreds of search and rescue teams now digging through
those ruins in paradise. and look, somebody has to feed those people. you see the operation here, dozens of volunteers working in concert, never missing a beat, doing all they can to help. they're with, as we mentioned, the world central kitchen. this organization goes to disasters all over the world. we have romero right here. he's the volunteer coordinator. what is the operation like at this point? what are you working on? >> right now we've been working about 8,000 to 10,000 meals a day, and we've seen numbers come up, and we'll continue to work as we talk to different agencies and shelters that will need the assistance. yeah, we'll start and do a lunch and dinner service for those locations. as of right now, you can see we're getting lunch out, and just really work and communicate. >> reporter: you've got people on multiple fronts. is this going to the operation center in paradise, and then how many meals are coming out right now? >> yeah, so right now we'll be working right about 4,000 meals for lunch, and we are working in
paradise. we actually try to get them out earlier due to, you know, getting to paradise and its location, but we are working with the eoc and the military and all the first responders there. >> reporter: thanks so much for everything that you do. we're going to be here all day talking about the operation. this is just as important as the people on the front lines of that fire and the people sifting through the ruins in town, this operation key and crucial to everybody doing their jobs at the top of their capacity, craig. back to you. >> so good to see the helpers there. we should note that they're wearing those masks because the air quality there in chico, california, is just that bad. turning back to politics here, and this contentious political environment, can lawmakers reach across the aisle to effect real change? that's the big question. well, that's the idea behind the bipartisan clean slate initiative launching this afternoon in washington. the group says that it wants to end overcriminalization here in the united states, saying that any criminal record no matter how old or minor can be a life
sentence to poverty. one in three americans, one in three has a criminal record. that's according to the center for american progress. the united states has more prisoners per capita than any country in the world. clean slate we should note is funded by the khan zuckerberg initiative, founded by facebook founder mark zuckerberg and his wife. i want to bring in general counsel, senior vice president of the koch industries, david plouffe head of policy and advocacy. he was also campaign manager for barack obama's 2008 campaign. so good to see both of you. thanks for being with me. david, your announcement comes one day after president trump laid out this new broad plan to reform federal sentencing laws. the bill still being drafted by the senate will loosen restrictions on mandatory minimum sentences. it would end stacking of sentences for first time offenders, shorter sentences for crack cocaine offenses and also offering new incentives for good
behavior in prison. is that a sound first step to reforming the criminal justice system, and what is it about this issue, david, that's brought republicans and democrats together? >> well, thanks for having us. the clean slate work that we're going to announce today and the coalition that's been put together is focused primarily at the state level so that across the country -- and there's a lot of momentum out there. you're likely to see states like colorado, michigan, south carolina, to try and pass clean slate legislation in the coming sessions to make sure that's not a lifetime sentence because it prevents people from an educational standpoint, professional licensing, obviously housing and rental. it really is a barrier, and so after people have been crime-free for a period of time, we do believe that should be automatic. we have to work on the technology and the policy aspects of that. obviously here in washington there's a healthy debate around criminal justice reform, and i think what that just adds to is a sense at a time of great political division, you've got all around the country, now here
in washington and state capitals all around the country i think consensus across the ideological spectrum that we have to make big changes in the criminal justice system, and we're excited to play a part to make sure we realize the potential that's out there. hopefully you're going to see a lot of policies change and a lot of good technology happening. >> you said last night that the president's initiative was a priority for senators from both parties as perhaps you've become aware, bipartisanship fairly rare commodity in washington for some time. do you get a sense, mark, that this is an issue that's going to bring about some show of unity? >> absolutely, yeah, no, i mean, it already has as david mentioned in the states. this isn't a discussion at the states anymore, criminal justice reform. they've had such great success in keeping communities safer and helping people get a second chance and saving taxpayer dollars. it just makes sense, and i think at the federal level, it's also coming along.
everything seems to take longer at the federal level, but no, we see great opportunities. we worked hard during the obama administration to try and get this comprehensive reform bill across the finish line, and now with president trump we see great opportunity, and we've got, you know, a broad coalition left, right strrcenter, we have faith-based groups, over 2,000 involved. we have major police unions like the fop, the fraternal order of police, and we've also got businesses on board, you name it, across the board, and we've got civil rights groups, and the whole idea is we want a system that keeps people safe, right? public safety has got to be a priority, but it also needs to be based on equal rights. treat everybody with dignity and respect, and we want a redemptive and rehabilitative system so when people make mistakes and they go to prison and they pay their debt to society they don't keep paying it the rest of their life. they get a real second chance.
that's why the expungement work is so important, second chances is so important, and hiring people with criminal records is so important as well because what happens is people get out of prison. they think it's over, and they can go about with their life, but there are so many collateral consequences, 50,000 or more to a criminal conviction that it keeps them from succeeding, and oftentimes leads them back into prison, which is not an outcome anyone wants. >> here's another aspect of it. there is a labor shortage in this country. it would seem to be a bit of a no-brainer that if you can somehow help a few million folks get into the work force, that's a win-win for everyone. what are the potential roadblocks here? what are the obstacles? >> again, if you step back, you mentioned the statistic one in three americans have a criminal record. i'd add almost half the children in this country have a parent with a criminal record. so many of those mistakes are made at a young age in life. the vast majority of those are going to be non-violent and misdemeanors, and so we have to find a way, i think, to make
sure people don't pay that for the rest of their lives, which is we want to accelerate their ability to get into the job market, to further their education, to have the ability to secure housing. there's no doubt as i traveled around the country the last couple of years in this work, but before that when employers talk about -- in some cases it's driven by necessity, quite frankly. we have low unemployment right now, and they look to hire people who have been through the criminal justice system. they're almost always pleasantly surprised at the caliber of work they get. when i used to work at uber, some of our best rated drivers who came in california, when california passed a law to reclassify a lot of offenses from felony to misdemeanor were people who had gone through the criminal justice system. i think lifting those stories is incredibly important. it's the right thing to do from a moral standpoint but a smart thing to do economically. >> david plouffe, thank you. >> we don't get a lot of co-guests here mark holden, you're always welcome. do come bachlk. this has been a treat. >> thank you very much.
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like a lot of kids, i have dream one day of perhaps growing up to be a rock star, and the problem is that you don't know this, but i can't sing. but than fox the gram -- thanks to grammy award winner darius rucker, i was able to live out the dream one day. >> when i was little, i wanted to be the lead singer in a band and from where i am in columbia, south carolina, there is no band bigger than hoo biggernd the blowfish, and the truth, i can't sing. hey! >> how are you? >> good to see you. >> i heard you can sing, and you got it. >> you heard wrong. >> reporter: i caught up with darius rucker on tour. what is your favorite? >> i still like "let her cry"
and that is always for me that song that god sent me to put me on the right path, because that song changed my life. >> reporter: that song won him a grammy and went on to be the top selling album of 1995. do you misthose the days? >> people ask if i missed 1994 and 1995, and i miss 1990, when it was the four of us in the van and the days when we were making it, those were the days. >> reporter: today is my day to sing alongside this multiaward winning country star. >> let's sing. >> you don't know how much my 22-year-old self is geeking out, man. let's do it. what is this? >> it is the ear monitor. >> and so, you don't know how the put it on. >> and this is the most important part, the microphone. >> and as they say, it is showtime. ♪ when is the last time that you did something for the first time ♪
>> and a true first for me, and then the highlight. >> i want to start you and then you take it, right? >> no, p no, no. >> come on. here you go. ♪ sitting by a old lamp post ♪ trying to find the thought that the just came to mind ♪ ♪ she says there's the one i love the most ♪ ♪ it's not far behind >> i could see why somebody might enjoy being a rock star. i could see why somebody would enjoy this. my favorite part of the song is that at the end when you are talking about sitting down and grabbing a beer, and can we do that part? >> absolutely. >> i don't know how to get there. >> this is the last time that i tried to the leave. >> yes. >> three, four -- ♪ last night i tried to leave ♪ cried so much that i could not
believe ♪ ♪ that she was the same girl that i fell in love with long ago ♪ ♪ let her cry ♪ and the tear the falls down like rain ♪ ♪ let her sing with the ease off of her face ♪ ♪ and walk out on me ♪ walk on me ♪ and if the sunshines tomorrow let her be ♪ ♪ let her cry ♪ and if the sun cops out tomorrow ♪ ♪ let her be ♪ let her be >> wow. man! >> a special thanks to darius and the band as well. we will be right back. . tional parks protected.
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like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. andrea mitchell reports starts right now. >> and right now on "andrea mitchell reports" on the attack. the president escalating the smears against bob mueller as one republican and a host of democrats are fighting for legislation to protect the investigation from white house interference. >> i think it is an absolutely necessary and important move to force accountability. >> i think that there is nothing lost by doing it. there is possibly much gained. >> what is your take on senator flake's here to hold up some of the judicial nominee tos force the issue? >> itt