tv MSNBC Live With Katy Tur MSNBC November 27, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PST
p.m. in washington and new york. in washington, the white house is briefing reporters. this is the first time this month, and it's november 27th, and it's the fourth briefing since labor day. the last time they briefed in front of that podium, october 29th. that one lasted just 23 minutes. so we're keeping a close ear to what's happening right now. if any news is made, we'll certainly bring it to you. but today's briefing comes amid a slate of plot twists in the special counsel's investigation into russia and its interference in the 2016 presidential campaign. the first, "the guardian" exclusive that alleges paul manafort held secret talks with julian assange in the ecuadorian embassy in london. according to the publication, sources have said manafort went to see assange in 2013, again in 2015, and then in the spring of 2016. during the period when he was made a key figure in trump's push for the white house.
this follows the bombshell news that the cooperation agreement between manafort and the special counsel has collapsed in spectacular fashion. robert mueller charges that the former trump campaign chair has breached his plea agreement by repeatedly lying to investigators. the stunning reversal comes with potentially devastating consequences for both manafort and mueller. for the special counsel, the more than two-year-old probe has now lost a key cooperating witness, and any information manafort provided is tainted. prosecuted can't credibly call someone to testify who they've labeled a liar, after all. for manafort, mueller's filing means more prison time and possibly even more charges. in his plea, he promised to tell the government everything the special counsel wanted to hear, and he's made it clear that any promises of leniency are now null and void and that manafort could be prosecuted for even more crimes than what already put him behind bars. so the big question we're asking today is, why would manafort risk a life sentence by lying to
federal prosecutors? joining me, nbc news correspondent hans nichols at the white house. so hans, as they're briefing in the building behind you, what can you tell us? have there been any questions at all, or have you had a chance to talk to sarah huckabee or anybody else in the white house about this latest news on manafort today? >> reporter: so nothing on manafort. the news coming out of this briefing right now is that president trump will not be meeting with mohammed bin salman at that g20 meeting. and the national security adviser is being pressed on whether or not he listened to the tape the cia had that reportedly had the last moments of mr. khashoggi's life. he's firmly denied he's going to listen to it. he's having quite a testy exchange with reporters about what he could possibly learn out of it. so this is about a preview of
this upcoming trip to argentina. after we hear from bolton, as well as the national economic adviser, then we may hear from sarah huckabee sanders on some more news of the day stuff. for now, it's focused on the president's schedule. >> and i know you'll get back to us when she says something about that. what can you tell us about "the guardian's" reporting on this meeting between manafort and julian assange? >> the most important piece out of this would be if paul manafort did, in fact, meet with julian assange in the ecuadorian embassy in london in march of 2016. nbc has not confirmed this report. there are some slight wording changes in an update to the story, but if, in fact, manafort met with assange at this particular time, it's significant because that was around the time when john podesta, the chairman of the clinton campaign's e-mails had been hacked.
if there was this meeting at the ecuadorian embassy, that could be a very significant clue into what may have transpired during the 2016 campaign, but we still don't firmly know exactly what happened. wloo wloo wikileaks and julian assange are denying there was ever a meeting. >> and we should say kristen welker also talked to rudy giuliani who says it's fake news. in the meantime, natasha, this is coming on the heels of manafort's plea deal imploding. back in the summer, there was a really interesting article in the "new york times," sort of a profile of paul manafort and who he was. part of it said, along the way, many say he became a mercenary, willing to serve brutal dictators and corrupt industrialists as long as they
paid handsomely. an international lobbyist who worked for mr. manafort from 1985 to '95, said she initially accepted his explanation that she served strong men to push them closer to western democratic ideals. but as time went on, she said, it seemed to me he became all about money, big money. it's an article that describes a man with an outsized ego, but however big your ego is, could you possibly think you could lie to robert moouueller and his investigators and get away with it? >> he thought he could tamper with witnesses and interfere in the investigation as it was ongoing, as he was in the middle of this intense, you know, negotiation process with the special counsel and get away with it. as we recall, he was writing op eds. he was ghost writing op eds, even when he was on thin ice with the special counsel. he was accused of violating a court-ordered gag agreement that had been imposed because his lawyer and he couldn't keep thundershower mouth shut. his ego has outsized his actions
over the course of the last however long he's been doing this. >> and not with good results. >> no, he has been in prison because he tampered with witnesses. now it seems like he's just decided to not cooperate with mueller at all. whether or not that's because he fears maybe retaliation from the russians, perhaps, or russian oligarchs in ukraine that he'd been working with over the last decade, or because he expects a pardon from the president, that is another question entirely. but the fact of the matter is, his actions had been really, really difficult to explain. what is he doing trying to influence the witnesses in this investigation knowing that robert mueller has access to all of his communications? it's just really, really -- >> and if you're deceiving robert mueller, knowing all the other people he's talked to, you have to wonder what he must be thinking there. trump has always painted paul manafort as somebody who frankly was insignificant to his campaign, and i just want to remind folks of what the president has said about him.
>> i know mr. manafort. i haven't spoken to him in a long time, but i know him. he was with the campaign, as you know, for a very short period of time, relatively short period of time. manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. paul manafort worked for me for a very short period of time. he worked for me for, what, 49 days or something. a very short period of time. he happens to be a very good person. doesn't involve me, but i still feel, you know, it's a very sad thing that happened. this has nothing to do with russian collusion. i have great respect for what he's done in terms of what he's gone through. some of the charges they threw against him, every consultant, every lobbyist in washington probably does. i didn't know manafort well. he wasn't with the campaign long. >> so let's go to sarah sanders, who's addressing this right now. >> we'll let that speak to itself. he has no intent to do anything. >> over the weekend, we saw powerful images of children as well as adults who were affected by tear gas fired by u.s.
officers at the u.s./mexico border. have you heard the president talk about that? one thing we didn't hear was any expression of regret that there were children caught up in this. does the white house regret the fact that children were affected by tear gas and that this situation took place? is there an investigation under way? >> so we're going to let you know exactly what she said. basically, she referred these questions to attorneys and said that -- you heard her at the end saying there's no intent to do anything. were you folks listening back in the control room? was that in reference to a pardon, where she said there was no intent to do anything? >> let's also not forget this isn't the first time -- >> all right. so she addressed it to manafort's attorney. if we go back to what we've heard the president say in the past, he's tried to argue that manafort didn't mean much to him, didn't mean much to the campaign, which we know is not
true, but is there any indication in spite of what we apparently have just heard from sarah huckabee sanders that it a b -- that a pardon is off the table? there is a possibility it was discussed. >> well, on the way that president trump has talked about paul manafort, let's be clear. he's only talked about him in the sense that he doesn't really know him and wasn't significant on his campaign. since paul manafort was in legal trouble, he did play a significant role in the campaign, particularly to the run up to the republican convention and served several months, not just 49 days, on his campaign. in terms of pardons, we have seen reports from "the new york times" that the president's legal team dangled a pardon for paul manafort, but here's the thing about a pardon by the president for paul manafort. even if he were to do that, he would then potentially face state charges for some of these crimes that he's admitted to committing, whether it's bank fraud or tax fraud. so even if president trump
wanted to pardon him, that would not procollueclude any action be prosecutors and potentially paul manafort would still face jail time. so it's not clear how that would actually help him. >> all right. let's go back to hans nichols. can you elaborate on what exactly sarah huckabee sanders said when asked about this? >> reporter: when asked about a pardon, she said she wasn't aware of any conversations between anyone on a pardon. that's not a flat-out denial. that's just saying she doesn't know anything about it. she also said on a question about firing mueller that he had two years to do so and he did not have any intent to do so. so to answer your question about what was a response to, the intent was no intent to fire mueller. >> all right. and sort of no absolute denial that any conversations have taken place. hans, thank you for that. let me bring in joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and professor at alabama school of
law. joyce, correct me if i'm wrong. while it's not uncommon for a cooperating witness to necessarily withhold some details, this filing by the special counsel's office where they basically say he lied and the plea deal is done is rare. i wonder what you think, what would possess paul manafort to risk spending potentially the rest of his life in prison? >> the deal that prosecutors offer to cooperating witnesses is they'll get some sentencing relief, but it's contingent upon full and truthful cooperation. that means that the witness doesn't get to hold anything back. they have to ask all of prosecutors' questions. they can't withhold information. it's a pretty onerous burden.
in manafort's situation, it's almost impossible to figure out what was going through his head. he almost looks like someone who's just congenitally incapable of telling the truth. he has to have known from prior experience with other defendants that mueller catches people who lie to him. so whatever the -- >> yeah, can we talk about michael flynn t rick gates, george papadopoulos? did i misunderstand something, or are these guys in trouble for doing exactly that? >> you know, all of them. mueller catches people. that's his hallmark. so whatever it is, it must be a whale of a secret that manafort is trying to protect. the plea deal tells us it wasn't just a single lie he told prosecutors. he told a crocross a number of subjects information they determined wasn't truthful. >> reaction to this has been pretty swift, in some cases
incredulous. i want to play what senator richard blumenthal had to say. >> the real danger here is a pardon, which is in trump and manafort's interests but is deeply dangerous for the country. i think a pardon would provoke a fire storm here. it would be solid evidence of obstruction of justice. and i think that's manafort's bet. manafort clearly is gambling on a pardon. he faced virtually life in prison without a pardon. he's putting all his cards in trump's hands. >> i mean, that's a heck of a gamble, ben. i think the last time that we saw him he was in a wheelchair, his leg was wrapped. the suggestion was he'd had another bout of gout. he's not been particularly healthy. he's been in solitary confinement. what do you think is going on here? >> so like joyce, i'm scratching my head about it. i think if his play was for a
pardon, unless something has happened in the intervening months, cutting a plea deal in the first place would have been kind of a boneheaded move. the president has to have felt at least a little bit burned by that. so i'm not certain that it's a play for a pardon. i also -- i mean, i'm aware of the speculation that he's afraid of somebody in ukraine or russia more than he is afraid of bob mueller, but i also think that would have cautioned against the deal in the first place. i'm left a little bit where joyce started, which is it almost seems like a pathological inability to tell the truth rather than a strategic decision. by the way, as natasha was saying earlier, there's precedent for that in manafort's prior behavior.
he's made a series of moves in the course of interacting with this investigation that seemed just crazy and self-defeating. so i'm wondering if we're all trying to ascribe calculation to what's really just watching a person self-destruct. >> yeah, some sort of normalcy in the middle of profoundly abnormal behavior. ben, joyce, thanks to both of you. still ahead this hour, 14,000 jobs gone, slashed by gm's latest restructuring plan. a far cry from what the president promised voters. will they hold him accountable, and should they? but right after this break, today's showdown in mississippi. a senate race largely centered around race. hat are you guys dog here? we've been helping you prepare and invest for retirement since day one. why would we leave now? because i'm retired now. so? we're voya. we stay with you to and through retirement... with solutions to help provide income throughout.
right now, voters in mississippi are heading to the polls for the last senate race of midterms. after once of the tense and divisive campaigns we've seen, tainted by charges of racism. mike espy fighting to become the first democratic senator elected in the state since 1982, while republican cindy hyde smith is hoping to become the first elected female senator ever. this run-off wasn't even supposed to be close, but smith's remarks that fueled racial tensions have closed the gap in a state donald trump won by 18 points and where he traveled yesterday to make closing arguments on her behalf.
>> this senate seat is for a very, very special woman who's going to do a special job. she votes for us, and she votes for make america great again, and she votes for america first. how does he fit in with mississippi? my guess, he opposed justice kavanaugh. he will vote in total lock step with schumer, pelosi, the legendary maxine waters, and the special interests bankrolling his campaign. >> today, he had a very clear answer to the president's question. >> well, mike espy was a member of congress for mississippi. four times i was elected, the first black congressman since the civil war. mike espy was secretary of agriculture, first mississippian to ever hold that post. so when people think of mike
espy, they think of my grandfather whose legacy i inherited. that's who i am. his blood runs in my veins. >> joining me now from jackson, mississippi, is nbc news political regarder vaughn hillyard. in an article you co-wrote, it says this. racial tension permeates the air in this state like humidity. i wonder what you're hearing from voters today and how much that's on their minds. >> reporter: good afternoon, chris. it is on voters' minds. actually, there's a nice older couple that just walked in here. we were hoping to catch them on their way out. to be frank, they are white voters. they said they vote republican here in the state of mississippi. the gentleman we just talked to, on november 6th, he voted for cindy hyde-smith, yet he's going in right now to vote in the democrat in this race. so what role does race play in it? he said he's tired of the stereotypes. we've heard this from particularly republicans, a good number of republicans that are
tired of the stereotypes of mississippi. yet at the same time, this is a tall task for mike espy to overcome, purely based on the numbers. we've also talked to just as many republicans here today and over the last several days that have said they want the republican because if it comes to another court opening on the supreme court and other issues. i want to play you a little sound we got earlier today. >> the stuff on race they kept dragging up to me was phoney. >> did that make you more inclined to vote for her? >> no. i was pretty much for her all the time. >> i'm hoping mississippi is turning a corner at this point. the things that cindy hyde-smith has said does not really represent who we are. i'm going to see a stop to that today. >> reporter: this is the gentleman i just spoke to here. the question is how many individuals self-described republicans, ultimately, are willing to vote for the democrat
in this race? there hasn't been really any polling in these last three weeks. chris, i think that's what we're all going to be looking at. really, where do the republicans, the white electorate in the state go. >> i love to see them coming out of voting, which is what we all should be doing when voting day comes, holding hands. thank you so much, vaughn. appreciate that. also joining me is derek johnson, president and ceo of the naacp. i wonder if you're getting reports from various polling places. what are you hearing? can mike espy turn out enough of the vote to score what would be a huge upset? >> well, i'm noticing a large turnout of african-americans. in fact, in my home county on saturday, people waited in line to vote early, up to three hours. at my polling place, the parking lot is full. there's a lot of enthusiasm in the african-american not only for this race, but there are
several judicial races taking place. unfortunately in mississippi, we've suffered far too long from racialized voting. i hope white mississippians are ready to cut through the rhetoric of the past and look towards the future. >> "the washington post" put it this way, the mississippi republican party sent out a mailer urging supporters to go to the polls, but it has trump's image on it and quotes on both sides. never once does this mailer mention hyde-smith's name or who voters are supposed to be supporting, which leads me to the obvious question, derrick. is this really a referendum on trump? will the results tell us something larger about race? we heard the response to it just last night. trump questioned, who is mike espy? >> well, you know, mississippi is one of the states in the south that you can cut across party lines. the best indicator is the race of a particular precinct more so than people on the ticket.
for local elections across the states, majority of the people vote as democrat and get elected as democrat. for federal elections, ever since 1980, we've seen fewer and fewer whites vote for democrats. that cuts across party. it's about race, pure and simple, and that's an unfortunate legacy of this state. i'm hoping at some point we can cut through that and talk about substantive issues around public policy, alternatives, and what candidates really stand for. >> we heard from president trump yesterday twice. he did a couple rallies there in mississippi. there's also a robocall from former president obama. i want to play a little bit of that. >> hi, this is barack obama, and tomorrow is election day. my name may not be on the ballot, but our future is. and that's why i believe this is one of the most important elections in our lifetime. make a plan to vote tomorrow. >> you know, yesterday president trump also framed this election as being about the future. so give us your big picture look
at this. how important is this election? >> it is huge. it's an indicator of the direction of mississippi, a state that's at the bottom of all the key social i understand c -- indicators, a state that refuses to expand medicaid, a state that is refusing to get past its racial history. as a result of that, we've had very few republicans in the state to stand up and condemn not only candidate cindy hyde-smith but any of her comments, not just the one comment about the public hanging, the comment about the suppressing black votes, her taking pictures with confederate emblems. we have to get past that type of racialized history and really embrace a future that's more inclusive. as of today, we must demonstrate that. this election will be a clear indicator. can we move past our past, or are we going to be stuck in the
past? >> polls close at 8:00 eastern time. derrick johnson, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today. appreciate it. >> thank you. the president promised more manufacturing jobs, but some worry that his policies, at least in part, have led to layoffs. will blue-collar workers turn against him? ♪ ♪ the greatest wish of all... is one that brings us together. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with $0 down, $0 due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment.
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the political fallout is building today after general motors announced it's closing five factories and laying off nearly 15,000 people next year. it will hit the heart of the industrial midwest, including two plants in michigan, one each in ohio and maryland, as well as a fifth in ontario, canada. this is a blow to president trump, who has promised supporters he would bring back factory jobs in general and auto jobs in particular. joining me from michigan is nbc news correspondent kevin tibbles and krcnbc editor at large john harwood. so kevin, unemployment at its lowest level in half a century. contrast that with this heartbreaking sound i saw last night, a worker coming off the line about people just bawling their eyes out. what are you seeing and hearing there? >> reporter: well, you know,
this is an economic story, but there really is a social impact to it as well. we're here in a place that is known for its cars. if anyone knows gm, they know where hamtramck is. i'm standing in a polish cafe that welcomed immigrants in the 1920s. now it's a great institution for a place to get lunch, stuffed cabbage and the like. but there's another factor, chris. that's why i'm joined by the mayor of hamtramck. i want to ask you, the relationship between the auto industry and gm and hamtramck goes back so far. how is this place going to survive without it? >> well, you're right that hamtramck grew out of the auto industry. hamtramck exists because of the auto industry. >> it wouldn't be here without the auto industry. >> in 1910, the dodge brothers came in, built the dodge main
plant, and the rest was history. we grew overnight, the fastest growing city in the country as a result of the auto industry. with the closing of the gm plant, that's the last remaining auto manufacturer in the city. so it really is the end of an era for us. >> reporter: there's another point that i'd like to bring up, and that is the fact that the city actually made some sacrifices in order to have gm come here. tell me about those back when the gm plant was built. >> well, the history of the gm plant itself is a troubled one, really. it involved the destruction, the complete bulldozing of a neighborhood in detroit. hamtramck is surrounded by the city of detroit. our borders are porous. so you can stand on one foot in detroit and one foot in hamtramck. but what happened in the early 1980s is gm offered the city of detroit and hamtramck a deal, and it involved the complete bulldozing of a neighborhood,
thousands of homes, businesses, hospital, churches, to clear the land so that gm could build a kind of suburban style plant. >> reporter: so the neighborhood is gone. now the plant is gone. is there -- >> well, the plant is not gone yet. you know, we're not sure, of course, what the final outcome will be. >> reporter: but you still have hope? >> well, hope, you know, call it what you will. i have faith in the resilience of our city. >> reporter: faith in the resilience of the city. the people here, the people that built this restaurant, the people that worked in that plant. chris, back to you. >> and all those festive christmas lights. it's going to be a difficult holiday season for the folks in hamtramck. thanks to you, kevin tibbles. and thanks to the mayor. john, main street might hate this. the folks in hamtramck certainly do. but wall street doesn't. gm stock went up immediately after the announcement yesterday. there is, however, bipartisan
agreement. we don't get that very often on capitol hill. the republican and democratic u.s. senator from ohio called it disgraceful. they called it corporate greed. what happened to president trump's promised industrial renaissance? >> well, it wasn't true. that's the main thing. that's why he's so upset. you know, president trump campaigned and has governed by giving it grandiose, simplistic promises that are completely ton realistic and not born out by the facts. so you know, when they cut taxes late last year, he talked about all the bonuses and wage hikes that were going to workers. a few companies announced certain things, but over time, we've seen that wage growth continues to be sluggish. most of the corporate tax cut has gone to investors in the form of share buybacks. we haven't seen a sustained investment boom. and here the gm news underscores the unreality of the claim that
plants weren't going to be shutting down or leaving the united states under president trump. >> he told people, john, he told people in youngstown, ohio, don't sell your houses. he told them that, people who worked at a plant that's now going to be closed. is it too early to speculate on political implications for 2020? ohio is no longer considered a swing state, but will it matter? if not in the specifics, could it have a broader impact, leaving it open for democrats to say, trump hasn't kept his promises? >> chris, i think the economy -- you know, you saw how badly republicans lost in the midterm elections and how low the president's approval rating is with a very good economy. if the economy, broadly speaking, turns down, if the turbulence in the stock market gets reflected in a broader economic struggle, that clearly is going to have a political impact on the president.
to the extent you have demonstrations, particularly to his base, that noncollege, blue-collar base, that it's not going to be so great as the president said. in fact, some plant closures are going to happen. i think that's going to hurt him. so far, it has not. g gallup, in their poll that came out yesterday, had the president at a 38% approval rating. among noncollege, white voters, he's at 56%. so it hasn't had an impact, but a few more announcements like this, and i think the potential for one grows significantly. >> yeah. john har wowood, thank you for that. rising tensions between ukraine and russia. next, richard engel's exclusive interview with ukraine's president, petro poroshenko. it's the best of pressure cooking and air frying all in one so in as little as 30 minutes it will be crispy on the outside, juicy on the inside, and on your table. the ninja foodi, the pressure cooker that crisps.
now to an nbc news exclusive. ukrainian president petro poroshenko just sat down moments ago for an interview at the presidential palace in kiev with nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. poroshenko addressing the declaration of 30 days of marshal law mar martial law in his country. on sunday, russian forces seized three ukrainian navy boats and their crews after a clash in the black sea near crimea. here was ukrainian president poroshen poroshenko moments ago. >> are you saying that martial law, by imposing martial law you put ukraine on war footing? you made them ready for war? >> no, we prepare for protecting
our country. martial law does not mean we attack anybody. we do it just for protect our country. >> by putting in martial law, are you preparing for a possible war? >> yeah, yeah, yeah. we just be better preparing to protect our country. >> you spoke to secretary of state pompeo, who promised support, but president trump has been very complimentary toward vladimir putin and has showed no inclination to oppose him. do you think that this white house, which is led by the commander in chief, by president trump, will be there for ukraine against russia? >> i count to the united states, i count to the united states people, and i visited the united states as a president of ukraine several times. i feel the huge bipartisan support i receive in the united states house and the united states senate. i have several meetings with the american president, and i have a
firm position that he supports ukraine in our fight for freedom and dmob and democracy. in this situation, i count on the united states. >> you can catch more of the exclusive interview with the ukrainian president tonight on "nbc nightly news." more breaking news for you. shortly after announcing he turned down a plea deal with the special counsel, conservative author jerome corsey sat down with my colleague to explain why. >> you were excited about wikileaks, what wikileaks was going to do. >> everybody in the world wanted to know what wikileaks had. under "the new york times," pentagon papers case, it would not have been a time for me to go see assange. my original testimony was incorrect. my e-mails show i was willing. that was amended. >> did you want to, or did you not want to? were you interested in going and seeing what he had? >> what i really believed and still do about assange is it would have been pointless.
>> and anna is with me now. what's your big takeaway from the interview? >> well, he makes these stunning -- he admits to a lot, actually, when he sat down with me. he says he essentially told roger stone exactly what julian assange was going to do, that there were going to be two big dumps, and he knew the october surprise was going to be john podesta's e-mails. >> so once he made that admission to you, why? >> well, right now he's fighting tooth and nail. the gloves are off. he's declined this plea deal, which puts him in a huge amount of hot water. he's in big trouble now. i asked him, are you hoping for a pardon from president trump? he said, no, of course he's going to say that. i pressed him on it, and he said no. it certainly seems that way because taking this plea deal on one count of making false statements would certainly make his life a lot easier right now. >> yeah, i mean, you cannot look
at this and not put it in the same context as paul manafort. you think, if you were in that situation -- and again, we're not in their shoes, but you would think that they would do anything they possibly could to minimize the impact on their lives. >> well, i asked him also, are you afraid now that the government has more on you? because if you don't take this plea deal, they can then really throw the book at him, multiple counts. so it remains to be seen. he's clearly made a choice. it's a tactical choice. we'll see if it works out for him. >> anna, thank you so much. and up next, an update on the balance of power that we'll see shift in january. good news for house democrats. and new polling showing how most americans view the man in the oval office. george woke up in pain. but he has plans today. so he took aleve this morning. hey dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be
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we have local senior living advisors who can answer your questions about dementia or memory care and, if necessary, help you find the right place for your mom or dad. we all want what's best for our parents, so call today. we've got a couple big political developments to tell you about this afternoon. first, after that blue wave of democrats gaining 39 house seats, a 40th flip is now within reach. nbc and other news media organizations are retracting their call for california's 21st district as democrat t.j. cox has taken a narrow lead. in utah, meantime, republican mia love conceded her race. and as if to punctuate the point, the latest gallup tracking poll has president trump's job approval rating dropping to 38%. his disapproval sits at 60%.
joining me, michael steele, former rnc chair and msnbc political analyst, tiffany cross is the co-founder and managing editor of the beat d.c. michael, for a long time, we've talked about fact donald trump hard core of supporters who are never going to shift. but when you look at the democratic gains and president trump's dismal approval ratings, does it possibly signal his base may be shrinking? maybe it's even smaller than we thought, or no? >> no, i think the base is still locked in around that 37%, 38%. i think what you see in these numbers are republicans who are giving a path, republicans are like okay, he's my president. republicans are like okay, maybe things will get better, peeling off the president and settling outside of the party essentially. you have a significant number of republicans who voted for democrats in this last election. that's why you see the kind of games the democrats have picked
up. now, outliars in places like mississippi, where i don't think you will see the same kind of response you saw in alabama among republicans shifting away the senatorial candidate there. but that's an out lying now and no longer the norm with the body of politics. >> the democrats do have bragging rights to the largest modern of victory for the pope l -- popular vote since watergate. when i traveled from state to state in the weeks leading unto the election and talked to democratic voters and activists, honestly, i have not found a single one who is confident that donald trump won't be re-elected. where are you in all of this? >> i think the fact 53% are democrats and 63% of the 111 votes that were cast, i think that says something. but i'm with you, i think when you start to aggregate the data, it gets scary. over 45% of the people still voted republican and still
remained loyal to this president, which is scary when you think about some of the rhetoric we've seen come out of this white house. also, when you aggregate the data and see who's voting, 45% of white women remain loyal to donald trump. that's not a huge dip from the 53% that stuck with him in 2016. people of color voted yet again overingly democratic. look at specifying races, david nunez in california won by running an anti-muslim campaign. his district is a majority minority district. he won in a district dominated by people of color. so when you look at those things, it's scary. >> we also have to look at the concession speech. it was pretty scathing. >> let me make this point about mia love, i'm so frustrated with it because it's like i don't know where she was the past two years but she had to get out of congress in order to see this
president for who he is. so it's a very frustrating thing that there seems to be a lack of empathy on the other side. something has to personally impact you. to michael's point when he said about doug jones, it should say something to us doug jones had to pull out barack obama-type numbers to keep an accused pedophile from the senate. it should be an alarm sound that mike espy has to pull off a miracle tonight to keep a known racist out of the senate. this is a troublesome time for the country. >> one of the things, michael, mia love said is that this party and this president have a transactional relationship. with blacks. it's not any kind of real relationship. it's not any kind of personal relationship. >> right. >> does that feel like a fair criticism? and if so, if you're someone within the republican party but you're in the reason party not because of donald trump but because you believe in small government, you believe in lower taxes or if you believe in all of the more traditional things
that seems to have gone away in the era of trump, how do you deal with that going forward into 2020? >> i think mia love is right. their relationship is a transactional one. that's been evident from the very beginning of our time with donald trump with the republican party. and i think for those of us inside the party who do not subscribe to trumpism that this is the battle, this is the fight. it is about the heart and soul of a party that a lot of folks are declaring dead and done. it is about what survives after trump, what argument do we reasonably and rationally make to the american people post donald trump, because there will be a post donald trump. and just a final point, we are where we are because this is where americans want us to be right now, and it only changes if we decide to be someplace else. that's what these elections are telling us. >> michael steele, tiffany cross, thank you to both of you. and next, a day devoted to giving back. of helping you. business loans for eligible card members
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today our one more thing is about one great cause but it is giving tuesday. a cause close to my heart is big brothers, big sisters. created in 1904 with a simple bee le belief that inherent in every child is potential. i have seen kids in all walks of life gain confidence they can live the american dream, that
their potential is and ybeyond what they ever dreamed, all because an adult invested in them. whether hoping it homework, playing a sport, just having someone to talk to, someone who listens, a consistent force for good in their lives. who doesn't need that? one very little big thing, a sponsor, known as a big, can help chart the way to college, and many become the first in their families to graduate. give of yourself and volunteer, or give from your plenty and donate to big brothers and big sisters or a cause that's near and dear to your heart. if you would like to get involved, head over to givingtuesday.msnbc.com. tell us how you give back online using the #givingtuesday. and that wraps up this hour. i'm chris jansing in for katy tur. ali velshi picks things up now. hey, ali. >> thank you very much, chris. have yourself a good rest of
your afternoon. and good afternoon, i'm ali velshi. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press p let's see if that happens. that will be next. >> that was back in july 2016. the special counsel team says that same day, russian hackers attacked the e-mail accounts of clinton's staff. the same hacked e-mails wikileaks released to the public months later, which leads us to today. "the guardian" is out with a bomb shell report that former campaign chair manafort met with wikileaks founder julie assange multiple times, including once when he was campaign chairman. sources have said that they went to see assangeth in 2014, 2015 and in spring of 2016. that comes a month after they