we're going to leave it to there. i hand off to another great lady who will be in charge for the next hour. this morning heads spinning. new headlines in the russia investigation as senators try force a bill to protect the special counsel. two key lawmakers say they have the vote but it may be dead in the water with mitch mcconnell even as we're learning about paul manafort's lawyers sharing details with the president's lawyers. that plea deal he cut evaporating. with donald trump's attorney, rudy giuliani, is telling us just this morning. the president himself unplugged and unincumbekucup -- unincumbered. happening now, the first test for nancy pelosi. house democrats meeting in

private starting the process to pick their next leader. what one democrat is telling us about the future of party leadership. our team is here and ready to go on this wednesday morning. lots halving on capitol hill where in matter of a couple of hours we're expecting a showdown on a bill to protect robert mueller. hours after president trump compared the mueller investigation to the mccarthy era and rudy giuliani accused of treating paul manafort like a terrorist. it's been a dizzying 24 hours. lawyers for paul manafort briefed trump attorney after coming to that plea agreement. manafort is accused of blowing up his own plea deals. the president says he has no intention of trying to stop the mueller investigation even with all those attacks on twitter. nbc news obtaining documents showing jerome corsi sent an e-mail to roger stone anticipating that 2016 wikileaks

document dump which revealed stolen clinton campaign e-mails. to to it off, guess who is weighing in this morning. president's daughter. we'll tell you what she has to say about the mueller investigation. let's set it upstarting with nbc news intelligence reporter and ken to you first. let's start with this new reporting.reporter and ken to y. let's start with this new reporting. it's something for somebody to turn around and and talk to somebody else's legal team about what's going down. >> it's so unusual that most lawyers have never heard of anything like it. one person said she had only seen it in organized crime cases. it's interesting, i've been reading through paul manafort's plea agreement and there's no stipulation that he shouldn't be sharing secret information with some of the subjects of the investigation. maybe they thought that was implied.

what's interesting here is that rudy giuliani, donald trump's lawyer has been saying there's a joint defense agreement. the thing about that legal experts tell me is that as soon as paul manafort began cooperating with robert mueller that joint defense agreement was null and void. they no longer have a common legal interest. what does that mean? that means these conversations between manafort's lawyers and trump's lawyers are no longer subject to the attorney-client privilege. in theory, robert mueller if he thought there was something amiss could call these guys before the grand jury and demand they testify under oath about whab w what was said. for example, did they dangle a pardon? the bottom line is we're not sure how much of a blow this is to the mueller investigation because we don't know at what point mueller learned this is happening. he clearly wanted paul manafort's tell me which is why there was this ten-day delay which is why they were trying to figure out how they will play

this. we'll find this when mueller files the court document exactly what lies and crimes he's accusing paul manafort of committing. >> friday, is that the date that's been set? >> a status conference on friday with manafort. we expect that will happen on friday. >> ken, thank you mump. l >> kristen, rudy giuliani has blasted off a couple of text messages. >> reporter: rudy giuliani and the president ramping up their attacks against robert mueller. this sounds like something we said yesterday because we saw similar tactic yesterday. let me read you what rudy giuliani said who say. their treatment of manafort like he's a terrorist, incarcerating him before trial. solitary incarceration and repeated questioning even after

manafort denies shows that are willing to exert unusual pressure that would tempt someone to lie. this is president trump. while the disgusting fake news is doing everything within their power not to report it that way, three major players are intimating that the angry mueller gang of dems is viciously telling witnesses to lie about facts and they will get relief. this is our joseph mccarthy era. there you have this common theme. they are accusing mueller and his prosecutors of trying to turn up the heat so much that they are pushing people to not tell the truth. that's their line of defense right now. will we see the president today? we know he has a lunch with new york governor later today.

>> an nna you had this big interview that went down. your headline, mueller has e-mails from stone pal corsi about wikileaks e-mail dumps. >> i believe the e-mails would destroy hillary. why did i think they were coming out in october because i said if i had these e-mails, i'd use them as the october surprise. >> you didn't know that at the time, did you? >> this is speculation. >> you didn't exactly write to him that it would be dripped. >> i did though explain that to him. there's phone conversations i had with him. >> you essentially told stone exactly what was going to happen? >> yes. >> explain what else corsi told

you and how this fits into the puzzle. >> jerome corsi could be a key link in the chain connecting wikileaks to roger stone to the trump campaign. what robert mueller's team has done is go through all of his communication and revealed e-mails from stone to corsi urging corsi to go see assange and from corsi to stone telling him that there were going to be more e-mail drops in the coming months in october and specifically naming john podesta. corsi sat down with me to defend himself. he said he figured it out on his own that he had read the first dump of e-mails, saw there were very few john podesta e-mails and figured out the next batch would be the october surprise. he said he'd never lied to investigators who are charging him with false statements. they say he lied when he told

them that he didn't remember those e-mail between him and stone. >> quite the interview. thank you all. let me bring in chuck rosenburg. s what do you make of what you heard? >> i think this bit about jerome corsi is interesting. what corsi told anna doesn't add up. he should be trying to monotize these powers of deduction. >> buy some lottery tickets. >> i think it was more interesting is the trump's team approach to them. what rudy giuliani told the washington post. what he told the post was president trump has no recollection of discussing welco wikileaks. normally they start with

president trump never discuss e wikileaks and they get to that point over time only when they found out they are cornered. the fact that rudy giuliani started at this point has no recollection, leads me to believe they may want to keep some wiggle room in there for reasons this may be clear. >> why would he have done that? >> here's my thinking on this. it is as ken said, highly unusual. manafort is a criminal. he had been a criminal for most of his adult life. criminals lie, cheat and steal which is what manafort does quite well. he's playing all the angles or trying to. he's shooting for a pardon. if he gets one great. if not, he tries to cooperate. he got caught by the government

playing the angles. this is what criminals do. if you're dealing with a team like muellers, sophisticated an experienced will not work. >> new york times has an op-ed laying out why paul manafort lied to the special counsel and blew up his plea deal. one the pardon promise. perhaps the idea made some promise to rescue manafort. what he describes as the assassination fixation. number three, the bad gambler. maybe he's a bad poker player. blinked when the pot got too big. you don't hold much stock in any of this. >> this article written by a brilliant lawyer and friend strikes me as plausible. i think the simpler explanation, it might be a combination of one and three. he's gunning for pardon. he's trying to play the angles.

this is what liars and chaeater do. nobody owns witnesses. manafort plead guilty and signed a cooperation agreement. once you do that, it's like playing for the red sox but giving the yankees your scouting report. you can't do it anymore. it's understood in the word of prosecutors and agents that you've picked a side. manafort was trying to play the angle. i would put asisay it's probabl combination of one and three. >> president trump was asked about this in several interviews saying the mueller investigation is what it is. he doesn't like it. he's not pledging to let it continue it course. his daughter was asked this very same question in an interview over on abc news. here is what she said. >> how concerned are you about the mueller investigation? >> i'm not. >> you're not. >> i know the facts as they

related to me and my family. i have nothing to be concerned about. >> do you think it should continue? >> i think it should reach its conclusion. i think it's been a long time. i want it to be done in way in which nobody could question it was hurried or rushed. after this long period of time we're well beyond that point. i think it absolutely should reach its conclusion. >> she said something interesting. i know the facts as related to me. we have seen other members snared by that. we have seen sarah huckabee sanders provide false information and come back and say the facts were not related to me appropriately. i don't think ivanka has been ensnared in this investigation just yet. her husband has. i think there's more to come on his role in all of this. i think there's the possibility that facts as related to her won't be the facts as when

mueller presents his documentation. thank you. the other big story we're following democrats are behind closed doors voting privately on who will lead the caucus in the next congress and whether that will include nancy pelosi. let me get to kacie hunt. what are you hearing? >> reporter: this will probably be less dra plattmatic than som her critics would want. she has done a masterful job of quitening that opposition. winning people over and getting the outcome to where she wants it to be. she will be unopposed. the ballot will be yes or no. there will be a line underneath. it's not going to be the case here. we may or may not receive a final tally.

there were several dozen people who voted against her the last time she was elected leader but at the end of the day many of them did not vote against her on the floor. there were only four who did. the floor vote still critical for her. instead we're really watching what are these younger members want to do. nancy pelosi has three women freshmen who will speak on her behalf at this meeting. she will be introduced, nominated by joe kennedy who is a rising star and john lewis who is an icon will close it out. i think that does make a statement. those other races that we're going to watch today, some of the names you may not be familiar with but there are people that we're keeping an eye on for the future.

there's the question about who will run the campaigns. we'll keep you posted on all that as we go. >> thank you. after the break a chatty president doing round after round of interviews with his newest one throwing some last minute drama. what donald trump is saying about the chances he will shut it down and house speaker paul ryan's new response in the last couple of minutes. george woke up in pain. but he has plans today. so he took aleve this morning. hey dad. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. now introducing aleve back and muscle pain, for up to 12 hours of pain relief

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president trump is saying he doesn't do anything just for political gain. this photo of the border is a great issue for him. he says i don't do anything just for political gain but politically speaking that issue, the boarderdering, is a total winner. it's a tremendous issue. we have to have border security. the president says he's not budging on his request for money for the border wall. not happening. politico describing the president as unflinchingly firm. they must send him a bill for $5 billion for the wall. the president saying she would be willing to shut down the government. when asked by the washington post about the same money the president sounded like he had a plan b ready to go. if we don't get it, will it get

it done another way, i might get it done another way. jake, let me start with you. mixed messages from the president on the idea this shutdown coming up in less than two weeks from today. >> yeah. mixed messages. in the morning he said he had a plan b and seemed to be softening. the back story is at 2:30 p.m. yesterday paul ryan and steve scalise went up to the white house and he came out much more firm on the $5 billion and said he would be willing to shut it down. 30 something days the democrats will control the house. it stands to reason the president would want to get this

done. something as you know he's been talking about for two and a half, three years. >> steve was at the white house. i talked with the congressman when he came outside. i said are you really willing to shutdown the government and he didn't directly answer the question. what is your sense of the appetite for doing this despite paul ryan saying smoe ining mom doesn't think it will happen. >> whether he thinks it will happen or not is immaterial. he has a lot of republicans who have been waiting for this moment for years. this is a small shutdown. this is not the entire government. this is a couple of bills. the department of homeland security. a lot of those people could be made essential to protect the homeland. this is not the shutdown we have seen in the past. the backstop is christmas. we have december 7th through christmas. we could see a shutdown. i don't see at this moment the path way out of this. >> orrin hatch doesn't love the idea. we caught up with him. i want to play what he had to

say. >> it's not a good idea to ever talk about a shutdown. i have mixed emotions about that. i don't think they are saying a shutdown. i think they can get the things resolved if we can work together. >> just work together. >> tis the season to work together. i say just shut it down. what the hell. if the president wants it, he thinks he will get $5 billion, just pull the trigger and see what happens. the reality of it is the president is trying to get something that nobody on capitol hill wants to give him. that's the truth of this. if this wall had any semblance of credence to it and reliability it would have been voted on and supported by the members long before now. >> the head lielines seem to be about the shutdown but there's plenty of other pieces in there too like the president i'm

leaving tonight for the g20. the president supposed to be meeting with vladmir putin although he's telling the post i may not. the kremlin is saying this morning, plans are still on. we haven't heard of any changes. >> i think that was one of the biggest headlines on the washington post story because of the sort of fraught and interesting relationship between president trump and president pew tuti putin. he's not usually one to suggest he will not meet with putin. he's proud of the fact he's had good meetings with president putin. this dispute now between russia and ukraine the president is coming a down a little bit harder. >> one of the things about seeing president trump unplugged with jake is reading the transcripts when those get posted. there's always a lot there. this is a president who wants to be talking. he likes to be talking. he's saying a lot on various

topics like climate, like the fed. we pulled some of the pieces of the transcript here. we talked about the border. i might get it done another way. he talks about climate. one of the problems that people like himself has is we have high levels of intelligence but we're not necessarily such believers. he talked about the fed saying i have a gut. my gut tells me more than anybody's brain can ever tell me, which an encapsulation of the trump's ethos there. >> i think the last quote about his gut tells him more than anyone else. that's the way he's been governing. there was a whole autopsy. i was pulling into all meetings that we are going to try to skin our base. here are pictures of african-american and hispanic people we want to vote for him. t there was michael in the room. you have a republican party that was completely different than

what trump gave them and trump won and beat 17 people. he is going to stake his legacy, his will stake all his political power on shutting down the government over the border. it's because he wanted to gin up this idea that this was worth shutting down the government over. >> you know what they say about what's in your gut. all those corrosive acids is not necessarily a good thing for you. that's the problem. the president's gut is not the way you govern. the truth of the matter is whether it's the g20, putin, shutting down the government, this sporadic on the fly approach has dangerous back consequences to it. >> jay, quick final thoughts. overall take away from the president's demeanor in talking with him. >> i thought he seemed pretty

even and pretty clear headed. he didn't seem to be conflicted in any way which isn't somebody who doesn't deal with the president a lot was a definite surprise. he seems this is the road he wants to go down and he's going down it. >> thank you. michael steel, you warm enough. michael steel joining us as well. at some point we'll get a better sense of how strong nancy pe pelosi's grip on the party is. the hard work you put into lowering your very high triglycerides with diet and exercise deserves the hard work that went into the science behind vascepa. prescription vascepa. vascepa, along with diet and exercise, has proven results in multiple clinical trials.

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about the flurry of investigations. i sat down with eric swallwell from california. thank you very much for being on the show. let me start with this new york times reporting that says paul manafort's attorney has been briefering president's lawyers about his meetings with the

special counsel's team. is it appropriate and should the house investigate? >> it's not appropriate. manafort was a cooperator. sount sounds like he's breached his agreement with the government. it's not the way innocent people conduct themselves. if the president was not colluding with russia, why is he clu colluding with paul manafort? >> will house democrats who control that branch of government try to investigate this issue. >> we want to know whether the president has dangled pardons for paul manafort, jerome corsi and others. you have to look at these not in separation but the fact that corsi and manafort are both backing off at the same time and whittaker has become ag and he's giving trump a window into the investigation and trump just submitted his answers to mueller. seems like all of this is happening at the same time. i think they are more related than not. we can investigate whether the president is abusing the pardon process, obstructing justice and

trying to prevent witnesses from cooperating. >> paul manafort can be convicted and end up behind bars. >> there could be backstop. you can't pardon someone from a state crime. we expect that is being conducted in new york and other places that have jurisdiction. >> mitch mcconnell, paul manafort back in the spotlight. that's going down today in a matter of 90 minutes or so. here is what the majority leader had to say about it. >> the solution in search of a problem. the president is not going to fire robert mueller. we have a will the of things to do to try to finishtaking votes that are completely irrelevant to outcomes. >> he's pretty clear there. how far should your senate democratic colleagues take this, all the way to a shutdown? >> we should ensure the rule of law to preserve. to say this is a solution in search of a problem, the problem

is the president fired james comey, sessions. he put in place someone who said they don't believe the mueller investigation is legitimate. how many people have to be fired before the rule of law is torched. >> am i hearing you say you would support a shutdown? >> i'm not voting for any legislation to keep the government open that doesn't include protecting bob mueller. i can't speak for my colleagues. the rule of law is too important and this president has taken a torch to it. >> as we speak on capitol hill this vote for nancy pelosi first big test of her leadership moving forward here. 22 members still oppose her. politico is reporting that nancy pelo pelosi's allies are encouraging them to vote no. >> she will have a good vote in the caucus. over the next few weeks she will continue to earn the votes.

she got two-thirds when she ran against tim ryan and only four members voted against her. this was the super bowl of midterms. we won 40 seats. what super bowl did the winning coach get fired right after the victory. that doesn't make any sense. >> the new york times points out she courts new liberals by offering them seats. by empowering newcomers miss pelosi risks kraetsi icrea headache for herself down the road. that seems like a real concern. >> i think there's enough issues and problems and solutions that will be needed for all of us to work on. it's not like there's a limited number of things to do. we have whether it's on climate, russia, infrastructure, the cost

of prescription drugs. people bring different experiences to congress. by putting those freshmen at the seats of those tables that empowers them and shows a transformation of leadership comes in. >> you're not concerned you could end up in this mark meadows esque position now? >> no. >> thank you very much. good to see you. keeping on congress, we know what the new senate will look like. cindy hyde-smith avoiding an upset. in a race that saw big time turn out in that state. mike espy, the democrat who lost last night, got more votes than the former senator whose seat he was trying to fill in his last election. the last time a mississippi senate race was within ten points, 30 years ago, 1988.

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less than two hours from now we may see fireworks on the senate floor. three senators are going to try and force a vote on a bill to protect special counsel robert mueller. >> he and i will be on the floor of the senate later today once again asking for a live unanimous consent. we could take up and pass this bill in a few minutes this afternoon and i'm confident it will get 60 votes. >> jeff flake is demanding a vote or else he says he will not vote for this guy. thomas farr. he's nominated to be a federal district judge. this is a judicial seat that's been open since 2006. that's the longest vacancy in the federal judiciary. the long time carolina lawyer has come under work defending north carolina's controversy voter id law. a law that was struck down for discriminating against

african-americans. they argued farr worked for decades to disenfranchise black voters and all of that may be putting his nomination in danger. he was rated well qualified in july after his nomination. he's been nominated four times by two different presidents for this judgeship. explain why you oppose this. >> i oppose along with millions of americans and a large coalition of civil rights organizations because he is in a way because it was uniquely unqualified and unfit to serve in the federal judicial area. namely he has materially nominated, opposed because of a professional lifetime suppressing the vote. he defended an effort to dismantle, i should say, he

defended the omnibus voter suppression bill or law in north carolina that the u.s. court of appeals said targeted black voters with surgical precision. he also defended congressional redistricting in which the supreme court found that .8 of those districts on target or suppressed racially jerry man mandsmand -- jergerrymandering black voters. >> farr did say hef was not at those meetings. you're clearly very opposed to him. we have seen protests during his hearings early on when he was first picked for this. what is the lobbying effort now. it seems like it's coming down to tim scott. he's not said, at least of 25

seconds ago which way he will vote on this. what are you and other groups doing to put pressure on senator scott, if anything? >> i think that senator scott has already poopposed the nomin because of diskrim criminatory writings back in college. if he opposed one nominee of a written record, he must oppose a nominee who has a long, well documented record of voters suppression. you cannot oppose one nominee based upon writings from years ago and support a nominee who has a current, up to date record of voter suppression. it's not consistent. as senator scott represented of south carolina which is within the u.s. court of appeals for the fourth circuit that includes

north carolina. many of us are pressing him to be consistent. you've been talking to folks. what are you hearing? >> it will come down to votes. more k marco rubio announced he will be voting for thomas farr but he didn't vote for the other with the same set of issues. i will add some of the sources have been saying that thomas farr has ties to a white supremacy group. one of his mentors was the director of that organization and he had given him awards. that's claim they are making.

the issue is going to come down to votes. it's the senate. the republicans have the majority. if tim scott votes with the republicans then thomas farr will have a lifetime seat on the federal circuit. >> thank you for joining us to talk through all of this. appreciate it. today we could see the first actions by congress to punish the saudis over the in your words of jamal khashoggi. all as the president's national security adviser comes under fire about why he refused to listen to the audio recording of the killing. something you'll hear coming up. hey there people eligible for medicare.

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as if there weren't enough happening on the hill today, in about 11 minutes from now, secretary of state mike pompeo and jim mattis are set to brief all senators of what's going on in saudi arabia and yemen. in pompeo's prepared remarks he is expected to defend u.s. military support for the saudi led war in yemen arguing abandoning yemen would do

immense damage to u.s. national security interests and those of our allies and partners. cia director gina haspel will not be there. the president isagain, questioning the agency's high confidence assessment telling "the washington post" maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but he denies it adding the cia did not say afiffirmatively he did it. mbs arrived in argentina for the g 20 summit. president trump's headed to that summit tomorrow, and he tells "the washington post" he's open to maybe meeting mbs on the sidelines. his national security team says not likely. joining me now one of khashoggi's former colleagues and friends, global opinion editor for "the washington post." thank you for coming on the show and talking to us ahead of the critical senator's briefing today. do you believe president trump

should meet, should talk with mbs while he's at the g20? >> i mean, i think -- i think i believe trump when he says that he wouldn't mind or would want to meet with mohammed bin salman, you know, absolutely i think my position our position at "the washington post" is that mohammed bin salman specifically should be treated as a pariah when it comes to world leaders, civilized world leaders. we saw this week how tunisian activists protested his coming to meet in the country. i think, again, if trump does meet with mbs it gives a message to the entire world and to mbs that you can murder, dismember journalists, cause potential war crimes in yemen, and basically continue on this path of repression and face no consequences and still get a

nice photo op and selfie with the president of the united states. it sends an absolutely chilling message if trump were to meet with mohammed bin salman. >> this came up during a briefing yesterday at the white house. john bolton was asked about that up a of your friend and colleague's death, and he said he hadn't listened to it. here was his rationale. >> no, i haven't listened to it, and i guess i should ask you why do you think ir should? >> you're the national security adviser, you might have access to that sort of intelligence. >> how many in this room speak arabic? >> don't you have access to an interpreter? >> you want me to listen it to? what am i going to learn? >> is that a legitimate or fair rationale in your view, karen? >> it's unbelievable. it's unbelievable that the national security adviser doesn't want to listen to evidence and form a correct response based on this. i mean, you don't need to understand arabic to understand

what it's like to hear somebody tortured screaming for their lives and killed. i mean, i think that just speaks to, again, the administration really wanted to turn their heads away from the truth and away from what our so-called partners and allies are capable of doing to anybody who dares get in their way like jamal did. >> gina haspel is not expected to be at that all senators briefing that's set to begin later on this morning. do you think that's a mistake, and what would you want to see from gina haspel at this moment? >> you know, of course it's a mistake. you know, we have a government that is run based on facts and is run base oed on intelligence. what's the point of having an intelligence community if we aren't going to listen to them? gina haspel has been basically the case officer for the cia on this case, and i think, you know, it's up to congress to

demand that she or a representative from the cia fully brief us on what they know so that we can have an accurate and come closer to the truth of what happened to jamal and not only that but, again, what we know about saudi arabia and this regime under mohammed bin sal n salman. so i hope that we can hear from her. >> karen, thank you for coming on the show. i appreciate it. we'll be right back with more on what our sources are saying and today's big picture. ♪

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let's get a check on what our sources are saying. you're reporting on the president's upcoming trip to argentina, which is where i will see you all from next time i see you. >> that's right. one of the bigger stories this weekend will be president trump's meeting with president xi from china. stock markets, financial markets in general we'll be watching, whether or not they come to some kind of agreement on trade. sources are saying both at the white house and on the chinese side there's a lot of skepticism about whether something will come out of that. the u.s. has not been pleased with what they've seen from beijing in response to their demands about trade. that will be a big one and also the meeting with putin, which by the way despite what he said to "the washington post" i think is going to happen. >> kremlin telling reporters, yep, still planning for that. yamiche, what are you working on? separate story on stuff going on in congress. >> it's on the first step act. this could be the largest criminal justice reform in a generation. what i'm hearing is that the white house is very much

involved in trying to get this passed through the senate. tim scott tweeted yesterday that he had been talking to the white house all day. also my sources are saying it comes down to whether or not mcconnell will bring it to the floor and whether or not there will be enough republicans to push mcconnell to bring it to the floor. >> do you think it's going to happen? >> i think there's a good chance it's going to happen, mainly because dmemocrats who were weay before got what they wanted and republicans realized it's an issue of spending too much money on prisons and spending too much money on incarcerating people. >> always a pleasure to have you on. we wrap up as always with today's big picture, and for it we're heading up to new york city. feast your eyes on the last look at a naked rockefeller center christmas tree. no lights, no nothing, but that all changes tonight. we are just hours away from one of the most fun events of the season, the 85th lighting ceremony, that 72 foot tall tree wrapped in five miles of multicolor lights, topped with a big star made with 3 million

crystals. i have a two-foot christmas tree at home. quite the difference. craig melvin, i'm sure you'll be there as well. one of the days i'm jealous i don't get to work out of msnbc headquarters. >> i'll be hosting the night with savannah and hota. >> a nice little pitch for you, i got you. craig melvin here, msnbc headquarters in new york city. now or never, president trump clashing with law make ners what he sees as his last best chance at funding his promised border wall before democrats take power. are we headed perhaps for another government shutdown? back channel, a stunning report that former trump campaign chairman paul manafort's team has been sharing information with the president's lawyers. the big question now why? and facebook, apparently it has a black people problem. that's according to a bb