>> every vote should be counted from every corner of our state. >> counting first, i think it will make abrams first person ever to deliver the state of the union response less than 48 hours after appearing in her own superbowl ad. fact check that, twitter. i will see you to on my own show tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. ali bellshi is in tonight. >> we should make time outside of this, joy. as you said when you started the show, it is a busy night. we will pick it up now. >> i'm in for lawrence o'donnell. the president of the united states is living in an alternate universe with this border wall. house speaker nancy pelosi said repeatedly and unequivocally that she will not give him the money he wants to build his wall, and so it seems that the president is okay with simply pretending to have a wall. in the oval office today president trump actually tried to claim, falsely, that his wall

is already being built. >> we're building a lot of wall right now as we speak. the chant should be finish the wallace opposed to build the wall because we're building a wall. we haven't declared a national emergency but we're continuing to build a wall and we're building a lot of wall. >> okay. two points here. first, let's fact check this. it is not true. none of what the president said is true. no new sections of the border wall have been built or are being built. we stretched our graphic staff tonight to show you this. that's the number of miles of wall that have been built. second, if the wall was being built as the president claims, why did he shut the government down for 35 days? what was the point of the shutdown if the border wall was already under construction? okay. back to the other universe that the president is living in. he also falsely claimed today

that he has the money to build his wall. >> have you found the money to build the wall if you have to? >> we have a lot of money and that's why we're building it. we're already appropriated. we have a lot of appropriation, it has already been done. >> okay. let's fact check that point, too. it is also not true. congress has not authorized any new funds for the border wall. that was the reason for the government shutdown. in fact, congressional negotiators are working right now to figure out how to avoid a second shutdown. the president is claiming he has money for a wall that he doesn't have and claiming that that same wall is being built when it is not. of course, some of this is thanks to nancy pelosi who refuses to cave to trump's funding demand for the wall. >> are you no longer ruling out any money for the wall? are you now open for money for the wall? >> have i not been clear on a wall? >> reporter: you have not been clear. >> no, i have been very clear on the wall. >> reporter: are you committed to -- >> if they come out with a

bipartisan consensus, of course. >> reporter: even if it includes border wall money though? >> we're not having a negotiation over this right now. they're having a negotiation over it in there. now, there's not going to be any wall money in -- in the legislation. >> okay. it should come as little surprise the president continued his attack today on the house speaker. >> reporter: you had quite the showdown with speaker pelosi. what did you learn about negotiating with her? >> well, i think that she was very rigid, which i would expect, but i think she is very bad for our country. she knows that you need a barrier, she knows that we need border security. she wanted to win a political point. >> she offered you over a billion dollars for border security. >> excuse me? >> she offered over a billion dollars for border security. she doesn't want the wall. >> she is costing the country hundreds of billions of dollars because what is happening is when you have a porous border and drugs pouring in and people dying all over the country because of people like nancy

pelosi who don't want to give proper border security for political reasons, she's doing a terrible disservice to our country. >> you are still going to have to deal with her though. >> no, she can keep playing her games but we will win because we have a much better issue. >> all right. the alternate universe continues. here is the problem with the president's thesis. it is just not right. polling this week from quinnipiac university shows voters trust democrats in congress on border security more than they trust the president. and they trust nancy please hee more on the important issues than they trust the president. you may be asking what's a president to do when support isn't on his side. well, just make it up. trump actually tried saying today -- and i hope you are sitting down for this -- that a secret movement of democrats want him to build the wall. >> in all fairness to the democrats, many of them want the wall and i see it. they're just dying to say what they want to say, but they can't say it as well as they would be able to if they weren't allowed to do it.

>> to be clear, no democrats have come out in support of funding the president's border wallace he h wall as he demanded it. while nancy pelosi is not a member of the committee working to fund the government, you can bet any final deal has to have her seal of approval and that approval won't include money for a border wall. that's the reality of the situation. joining us now, president for the center for progress, and maya wily and former council to the mayor of new york city, an msnbc legal analyst. thank you to both of you, welcome. neara, let's start with you. donald trump seems to have refocused his attention on nancy pelosi. it hasn't worked for him since the new congress has come into force. nancy pelosi seems to have out numbered donald trump once and he seems to keep going at her for some reason. >> in fact, donald trump's attacks on nancy pelosi have done nothing but shore up and

strengthy nanciy pelosi. if you asked republicans a year ago whether she would be almost ten points more popular than donald trump, they would have said that's not possible, but then now we have donald trump and he has done this incredible thing which is to make nancy pelosi far more popular than him. i think really her strength comes from the fact that he is a bully who has bullied republicans into subservience. she stands up to him. she negotiates the best hand and he has had to cave to her and he hasn't caved to too many people. he should keep attacking her. she will get to 55, 60% if he keeps going. >> maya, it is interesting that the president raised after everything else he said that there are democrats that want to say what they want to say. there's a new freshman group of democrats, there are progressives elected who do not appear to be shy of saying whatever they want to say.

>> even when other democrats don't like it. >> that is correct. in fact, i would say that they're there in stronger force than we have seen for a while. if there are secret democrats who want to fund this wall, it doesn't seem likely. nancy pelosi seems to have her caucus in line on this. >> absolutely. and i think what all of this, when we go back to the facts that we have 700 miles of wall already, that we have the rio grande river and we have deserts that also form natural barriers, and that two-thirds of people that come into the country, who are here now without proper documentation came in on airplanes or -- >> with visas that they overstayed. >> with weivisas that they overstayed. this is why -- first of all, some democrats may actually not agree on increasing funding for border security. that may be a point of contention between some of the new democrats versus some of the

democrats -- >> but none are over on donald trump's side. >> but that's on the other side, right. that is pulling in the other direction because the primary policy point the democrats have been asserting is we're pro border security. you want to raise, as kellyanne conway did today, issues of getting fentanyl when it is coming into -- being smuggled in the country. that came through an official border crossing. >> right. >> and folks making the point that a wall would not have prevented that. the question becomes what is border security? what do we mean by border security? how do we even understand what borders are? and who do we need to be able to access the country, as we have talked about asylum seekers, you know, and how are we making sure there's a rational process for immigration that makes it a real pathway to citizenship for a lot of people. that's the debate that so many democrats really want to have. unfortunately, in this context that's the discussion they haven't been able to have. >> february 15th is when the

government could shutdown again if there isn't a deal. the president continues to raise the specter of declaring a national emergency, which a lot of legal experts say he can do because it is very loosely defined as to what a national emergency is. however, apparently according to "the washington post" mitch mcconnell, who is strangely silent these days, has urged the president privately not to do that. let me just read to you from the article. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell cautioned president trump privately this week about the consequences of declaring a national emergency to build his border wall, telling him the move could trigger political blowback and divide the gop, according to two republicans with knowledge of the exchange. mcconnell told trump that congress might end up passing a resolution disapproving the emergency declaration, the people said, which would force the president to contemplate issuing his first vieto ever in the face of opposition from his own party. to your point, neara, the president declared he would own the shutdown if it happened. seems the american people are

willing to let him do that. he was outmaneuvered first time by nancy pelosi. he is now a week out from possibly being outmaneuvered again. he has mitch mcconnell telling him not to declare a national emergency and he may not have the deal to fund his wall. >> i think that's why he said what he said today. i literally believe he is telling his supporters he has already built the wall and is already building the wall because he thinks he can convince them it is true, despite the fact we had a government shutdown -- i mean it seems laughable i think that's how insane the world has become because obviously he knows republicans just were about to bolt last week. so he was forced to reopen the government. there is no appetite by senate republicans to shutdown the government again, zero, zilch. he cannot -- he can do a national emergency, but it is incredibly unpopular. so i think he literally is going to now just say to people, we're

building the wall. and if he repeats it enough, maybe 30 or 35% -- >> i was going to say 30-plus percent of people -- >> yes, they will agree with him. they will magically think that the wall is being built. frankly, from my perspective this might be the easiest solution because no wall will ever be built. >> just pretend the wall is there. >> we all will be in a magical world where there's a wall. >> it is an alternate universe. 20 some odd percentage of americans believe barack obama is kenyan-born, so it is not that much of a stretch to get a third of americans to believe the wall is being built. however, is there something to the president receipt peting thin -- repeating things like that, more importantly that nancy pelosi is letting drugs into the country, democrats don't want border security? there's a lot of money on the table for border security, in fact more for border security than president trump's wall? >> well, it also ignores we had roughly a decade in increase in

spending on border security at a fairly rapid pace. so there's -- >> and a decrease of the number of people coming across the border. >> that's right, a decrease. what the real problem here, like so many issues that we're facing right now as a country, is how do we understand what the facts are and then have an actual debate about what the best resolutions are of the problems that we agree have to be resolved. because as many people have said, what are we doing about comprehensive immigration reform. the reality is if you are a parent who is a now naturalized citizen and you are trying to bring your child lawfully into the country, you are going to wait an average of six years as a citizen to try to get your child into the country lawfully. that's a broken system and that is one of the questions that we have to answer, is how do we create something that actually makes sense, not whether or not we should have a system of

immigration but how do we make it work. but you can't have that conversation rationally as a country unless you are willing to agree to what some core facts are, which are established. that's our problem. >> thank you. >> can i just add one quick thing? >> yes. >> i think one important point is we may end up in a world where democrats have offered smart -- not stupid, smart border security that actually redresses asylum claims, that actually has smart technology on the border, and then really all of these efforts by trump to attack democrats as weak on border security will actually backfire because they will have actually provided more resources to legitimate border security. i think the fact that democrats -- you know, you may end up in a world where democrats numbers on border security, which are already better than president trump's increase even more. >> thank you for joining me. stick around because we're going to talk a little more about what

is going on in virginia. coming up, donald trump has a question about voters and his wall and michael moore has an answer. he will join us in studio later. i will ask him about donald trump versus chuck and nancy and the ever-expanding field of democrat candidates. first, more democrats are calling on virginia governor to resign after today's revelation of his clearly racist and offensive photograph in his medical school yearbook. s medical school yearbook. aaaah! (mom) nooooo... (dad) nooooo... (son) nooooo... (avo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. [son loudly clears throat] [mom sighs] [mom and dad laugh] (avo) bounty, the quicker picker upper.

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breaking news tonight out of virginia. governor ralph northum is responding to the discovery of what can only be described as a racist photo in his medical school yearbook. the photo appears on his page in the 1984 yearbook for eastern virginia medical school. the picture on the right shows two men, one dressed as a member of the ku klux klan, the other in black face. he issued a statement apologizing followed by this statement shortly thereafter. >> my fellow virginians, earlier today i released a statement apologizing for behavior in my past that falls far short of the standard you set for me when you elected me to be your governor. i believe you deserve to hear directly from me. that photo and the racist and offensive attitudes it represents does not reflect that person i am today or the way that i have conducted myself as

a soldier, a doctor and a public servant. i am deeply sorry. i cannot change the decisions i made, nor can i undo the harm my behavior caused then and today, but i accept responsibility for my past actions and i am ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. i have spent the past year as your governor fighting for a virginia that works better for all people. i am committed to continuing that fight through the remainder of my term and living up to the expectations you set for me when you elected me to serve. thank you. >> all right. that was ralph northam. joining me now derek johnson, president and ceo of the naacp. derek, thank you for joining us. i want to just show our viewers what you tweeted tonight. you said, black face in any manner is always racist and never okay. no matter the party affiliation. we cannot stand for such

behavior, which is why the naacp is calling for the resignation of virginia governor ralph northam. does his apology, the video apology which was more comprehensive, in which he does not make any excuses and acknowledges the harm that he did, does that have any impact on your thinking about this? >> well, i think it is important that he actually made the statement. however, our position remains the same. 1984 although it feels like was a long time ago, it was well-established african-americans have been treated wrongly by this nation, by individuals. to do -- have black face or a klan uniform when you are in medical school, that's problematic. we should not allow that to take place in this society considering the current sense of intolerance that's germinated from the white house. >> have you had an opportunity to express your views other than in the tweet? has the naacp reached out to the governor or have you received

any response from him? >> well, he's spoken with our state president of virginia, but our position is clear. we are a non-partisan organization that fights against racism and discrimination. because we will do this if it was a republican governor, if it was donald trump in the white house, we do it across the board. it is important for the naacp to set the tone of higher morality because we must have a standard where all individuals are treated equally, fairly, with equal protection under the law, and have caricatures of black face and in klan uniform is not something that should be tolerated. >> when you talk about having sort of a standard across the board, many instances in which people in the last election cycle, for instance, were accused of doing things that were racist, there were excuses given, there were denials about whether or not they believed it was the case. the difference in this particular case -- and i will read this again from the video statement that the governor

issued. he said, i cannot change the decisions i made nor can i undo the harm my behavior caused then and today, but i accept my responsibility for my past actions. this is the part that i want to ask you about. and i am ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. what does that look like to you? what can that be? if he doesn't resign, does that have meaning to you? >> it has very little meaning. you know, if there was some real honesty in embracing the problem, it would have been addressed on the front end and not uncovered by a third party. you know, it is interesting when individuals get caught they're remorseful, they want to change, they want to fix things, they want to change the way things happened, and in many cases they want to rewrite history. unfortunately, you can't take this away and there was no disclosure on the front end. therefore, our position remains the same. >> so that's interesting to me. what does that look like, disclosure on the front end? i guess it is relevant to a lot of people running for office today, they go through their past and they say, in ralph

northam's case, i'm a doctor, i was a soldier, i have served my state, but there's going to be this problem because there was this picture in my yearbook and maybe i hung around with people -- we don't know which one he is in the picture, whether he hung around with people with klan outfits or hung around with people in black face. how would it look for somebody running for office today? should they disclose that and say, i know it is going to be a problem but i'm not the man i was in 1984? >> absolutely. we've seen politicians upfront talk about prior drug use, other issues. you know, i think the african-american community and the american people in general will be forgiving if people come forward and say, you know, i am flawed, and because of my past i am working towards correcting that and say it up front. don't allow it to be a gotcha moment. gotcha moments, then people say, you know, are you really serious or did you just get caught? i think in this scenario he just

got caught. >> derek, good to talk to you. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> derek johnson, president and ceo of naacp. we will have more on the story with mark thompson. maya wily is joining me again. a question donald trump has been anxiously asking his own staff. it has to do with his reelection. has to do with his reelection s supposed to relax me, though. ♪ maybe you'd mellow out a bit if you got geico to help you with your renters insurance. oh, geico helps with renters insurance? good to know. yeah, and they could save you a lot of money. wow, suddenly i feel so relieved. you guys are fired. get to know geico and see how much you could save on renters insurance. [sneezing] ♪ you don't want to cancel your plans. [sneezing] cancel your cold. the 1-pill power of new advil multi-symptom cold & flu knocks out your worst symptoms.

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we have a tremendous tragedy in charlottesville two months ago, and it is unfortunate. our president didn't stand up and call these white supremacists out for who they are. ed gillespie has had over 70 days to stand up and denounce

our president for not standing up and calling these supremacists out for who they were, and tell these supremacists we don't condone hatred and bigotry in virginia and to go back where you came from and don't ever come back. >> that was then-candidate ralph northam in 2017 talking about the white supremacist rally in charlottesville. joining me to talk about it, ma mark thompson and maya wiley is back with us. maya, what is your take. i have papers and statements from politicians and tweets calling for ralph northam's resignation. what is your thought? >> so the behavior is inexcusable, flat-out racist, explicitly racist, not what we would call subconsciously biassed, you know, where you aren't even aware what you are doing might be really offensive and racist. there's no question it was awful. you know, it is complicated to me in this one, and governor northam has not done it yet and

i think derek johnson, who is a close personal friend, maybe a very important point when he said if you are reformed, if you are redeemed, if you have learned, where and how can we look and find the examples of that. you didn't come forward in the beginning and say, i did this bad thing and i recognize it was bad and here is how i have worked through it. he didn't -- in his statement that he made today, which was saying this is not defensible and i take full responsibility, but we didn't hear what has he learned about race since he did that in 1984? where was he in 1984 that led him to do such a heinous thing as to -- as we have seen in those images? what has changed? his record, his policy record is significantly different and better than, say, a senator hyde smith, who as we talked about in the past, i think what she has done is worse in the sense that

it was current and that she is unrepentant about it, and that it follows along her policy agenda. in other words she will make decisions that will impact people's lives directly. that's not to let governor northam off the hook. that's to say, you know, we do want a country that recognizes that people can learn and move past their racism because we know that they can, but he has to demonstrate it and he hasn't yet. >> we have the mayor of richmond, mayor stoney has said governor northam has a long and distinguished history to our commonwealth and nation but he should do the honorable thing and step down. we have tweets from kamala harris, kir tsten gillibrand an others asking for his resignation but some people aren't. there are some virginia politicians who are not. mark, what is your take? >> he should resign. he must. otherwise he gives donald trump something to talk about at the

state of the union next week, and donald trump can continue to be hypocritical because, ironically, it was charlottesville that helped elect ralph northam, that extreme racist behavior that donald trump defended. donald trump should resign from that, for that. there may be democrats that say, well, it is a double standard, if donald trump can get away with it, if steve king can get away with it, why can't ralph northam. you have to take the moral high ground, and ralph northam and the democratic party can take the moral high ground by him resigning. true contrition for black face -- it also goes to competence. let me say this quickly. he knew it was in his yearbook. why would you put yourself up for office without dealing with that directly on the front end? that goes to competence. i would love to know other people involved in helping him convince him or convince themselves this never would be found. he was vulnerable. you talk about compromised. the people who found this

weren't virtuous. they are fighting against him because he was in a progressive -- he has been progressive since he has been governor. he was fighting to defend the reproductive rights for women. they said, we gotcha, we'll show you as a racist. he lost. you lose the battle but you win the war. he has to resign, and true contrition for black face is not delaying a second longer in showing good faith in your black lieutenant governor, justin fairfax. if you -- if we're on a team, i'm on the basketball court and i'm coaching the team, i have got a competent sub on the bench. when my player gets hurt, i go to a sub. justin is that sub. he is competent. ralph northam won with 53.9% of the vote. justin won with about 52.8%. that's a very almost equal competent sub. put him in and then justin as a black governor will honestly be probably the first virginia governor to succeed himself. >> so i want to press this issue a little bit, maya, because in the things that we've covered in the last several months,

including with desantis in florida, you and i talked about this. >> correct. >> and we talked about mississippi. those were delayed reactions. those were weird apologies. those with "if i offended anybody." again, to me there's some value. it is not determinative, but there's some value when he says, what he said, i cannot change the decisions i made. he admitted what he has done. he said, nor can i undo the harm my behavior caused then and today, which i think is interesting because he is acknowledging harm. in those other cases we talked about, nobody acknowledged harm. everybody said, you misunderstood me, i didn't mean that. then he said, i am ready to do the hard work of regaining your trust. mark thinks the hard work of regaining your trust starts with resignation. what else can it be? if he doesn't resign, how does he do the hard work of regaining trust? >> and mark acknowledged this as well. he already has a policy platform that's very clearly about racial

justice in the sense that he is about, you know, dealing with driver's license being suspended where essentially poverty prevents people from driving and have a livelihood, and that disproportionately impacts people of color. he wants to reform sentencing laws. he recognizes that voter id laws have really been a way of disenfranchising voters of color in particular, black voters. so he's got that record. what i doesn't have -- and this is what i was talking about earlier -- he did a half step in this, in exactly what you are saying, ali. he said the right things about taki taking responsibility and recognizing his harm. what else? what has he learned? what is he doing differently? how can he convince us? >> what is the evolution? thanks very much. maya wiley and mark thompson. michael moore is here in the studio. he will be my next guest. my net and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us.

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donald trump is refusing to budge over his border wall with two weeks to go until the government shuts down again. the president told "the new york times" that the bipartisan spending talks to find a deal on border security are a, quote, waste of time. today he reiterated he is not ruling out taking action on his own by declaring a national emergency to get his wall funding, but trump's message is not resonating with voters. polling shows americans do not want another shutdown, nor do they want trump taking disaster relief money if he doesn't get money for his wall. 54% of americans say they will

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>> we will be looking at a national emergency because i don't think anything is going to happen. we are getting nowhere with the democrats. we're not going to get anywhere with them. it will be a part of their campaign, but i don't think it is good politically. i think nancy pelosi should be ashamed of herself because she is hurting a lot of people. >> donald trump might be publicly blaming nancy pelosi for how the shutdown played out, but as axios reports, privately trump is worried the shutdown hurt him in states like pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. somebody who knows those parts of the country very well is michael moore. he is an academy-award-winning documentary filmmaker. his latest farenheit is now streaming on blew ray. >> always got to get in the plug. >> yes. >> can't get to saving the country. >> no, because if i do that for you, you will say something nice

about canada and single-pair health care pretty soon. before i get to that stuff i want to ask you about the ralph northam situation. as you can see i have tweets and tweets and statements from people. >> yes. >> about ralph northam should resign, he should resign. mark warner of virginia and tim kaine have both not explicitly called for his resignation. they said he has to listen to the people of virginia and make a decision about what he has to do. newspapers are calling for his resignation. what should ralph northam do? >> let's start with the broader picture. what should the democrats do. the democrats have been in part responsible for not doing the things that need to be done to lift african-americans off the lowest rung of the economic ladder. that has to change. democrats have got to quit just mouthing this, you know, i support african-americans and then not really doing anything about it. you know, we have democrats in charge for eight years, and during that time flint, michigan, the water gets poisoned, the republican

governor is responsible for this, and yet nothing happens. you know, it is an african-american city. it is majority african-american. that's the broad picture. the little thing that we have to deal with right now is -- you told me during the commercial break ralph northam did not resign? >> he apparently has not. >> he must be watching the cable news right now. ralph, please, all right, you have to resign by the time this show is over. you know it. i know it. everybody watching knows it. you need to -- in fact, call in right now, into the show if you could. the switchboard here at nbc, 212-664-4444. ralph, call us right now. we will take the call. would you take the call? >> we will definitely take the call. >> can he resign while on the air? >> i'm surprised you knew the phone number. i didn't know it. >> all of america knows the phone number for the three major networks. >> if he calls in, we will definitely take the call. do you give some creedence to the apology he recorded in which

he acknowledges the harm he did? he didn't do what others have done who have been accused of these things. he said, i did it. >> yeah. >> he said, i harmed people. >> yes. >> i can't change that. >> yes. >> now i want to rebuild trust. >> yes, rebuild trust by resigning. 212-664-4444. ali and i can take your call live on the air right now. no, he has to go. >> all right. >> what he did, what he said, yes, but it doesn't matter. our side doesn't tolerate this for one second. when was this announced? how many hours ago? i can't believe he is still the governor of virginia. >> very interesting. >> it needs to end by the end of the last word. >> let's talk about the shutdown or the -- or the emergency declaration. the president today went out of his way to explain that a wall is being built. it is under construction now. he is lying. there are zero miles of wall under construction, but this does seem to be a tactic he is using now. let's just say it is being built and maybe his base will support him and the ann coulters of the

world will say it is okay. this is not going to work. he's not going to get his money for his wall. he is being warned apparently by mitch mcconnell not to declare a national emergency because that will run into problems even with republicans. >> okay. so let's look at the positive of this. all right. yes, donald trump lies 30 to 40 times a day. but he did give us a sliver of truth today, and that's when he did say, i have other measures and that he is putting it out there that he is going to declare this national emergency. i would take him at his word, because every now and then he actually blurts out what he's planning to do. for us to spend the next two weeks not thinking anything is going to happen, i mean we really need to be prepared as sit z citizens of this country, whatever he does with his national emergency. >> right. >> whether it is written on john bolton's legal pad or not, you know, hey, let's start a war, send troops. >> it is kind of incredible. >> well, it was incredible but

it shows what they're thinking in basic wag-the-dog fashion here. they know that by starting a war, doing -- or having a crisis, some emergency is a way to get people's minds off the real issue. >> right. >> that he is a colluder and that there is going to be an impeachment of him. he doesn't want anybody talking about that, so we spend all of our time talking about the shutdown or this or that. but he already knows the shutdown isn't going to work again. he has to do what got him elected, just take it -- take it by the collar and go for it, and that's what he is going to do. why are we sitting around waiting for that to happen? we should be making our plans right now as to how we're going to resist and stop his fake national emergency. >> he's been asking people about the trouble he is having in the midwest. detroit news, a poll asked michigan voters who they blame for the shutdown. 45% said donald trump, 26% said democrats, 22% said both. but the bottom line -- >> actually, in michigan 1%

actually blamed me, but -- >> fair enough. >> but i know those people, don't believe them. >> what do you -- donald trump is having problems across the midwest, he knows that. he's now apparently, according to some reporting, asking advisers how he recovers his standing in pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. >> again, there again it shows when he does click, that's the right question he should be asking himself because that's how he won the white house, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania. and they all tossed out the republican in the governor's chair and put a democrat in in november. he can see the writing on the wall, that he's losing these key states that are now going back to turning blue, and so he knows that that's -- that he should be thinking about michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. but how is he going to -- you know, up in northern michigan, it is a coast guard town, where one of the big coast guard

stations are for the great lakes. there were so many people affect by this in ways i think the people were surprised when you and others would show it on the news here, going to food pan y pantries and not being able to pay the bills and getting eviction notices and things like that. why would anybody serving the country have to worry. >> a government employee had to call into the show and tell us how they were missing their mortgage payments, how they couldn't get food. i had a tsa worker telling me i can't go to work because i can't afford the gas, the gas station won't give you a loan, gas on credit. >> no, it was powerful, the things you and stephanie did during the shutdown. you know, you would tear up watching -- >> i did every day. >> -- msnbc. yes. >> we weren't watching people after a natural disaster, after a tsunami hit their home. these were regular people either

not going to work or not being paid, but through no harm of themselves. >> harm inflicted by our representative in the white house. so many shameful months in these two years. when we come back we will talk about the question that donald trump is asking question donald trump is asking himself. the concern he has about who can beat him in 2020. ics say is number one in the nation? sure, they probably know what they're talking about. or the one that j.d. power says is highest in network quality by people who use it every day? this is a tough one. well, not really, because verizon won both. so you don't even have to choose. why didn't you just lead with that? it's like a fun thing. (vo) chosen by experts. chosen by you. and now get apple music included, on us. it's the unlimited plan you need on the network you deserve. switch now and get $300 off our best phones. each day justin at work... walk. and after work. he does it all with dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort. to keep him feeling more energized. dr. scholl's. born to move.

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the democratic side. a lot of people who are asking themselves the question, about whether they can do a better job than donald trump. most of them are coming up with an answer that says, yes, that group of eight is going to become bigger over the next couple months. are they asking themselves the right question? >> no, because can i do better than donald trump? camera two, i'd vote for him. you know, seriously. anyone in this room, anyone out there, anyone watching right now could do a better job than donald trump. the question they need to be asking is, who's going to crush donald trump, who can win, really win. not just the popular vote, but win pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. ask yourselves that at heam, who's that person that right now, tonight could crush donald trump. >> do you think that's more important than taking positions on things?

we knew that health care was one of the biggest issues to american voters in the last election. everyone's staking out a position on health care. a lot of them are coming out on the side of single pair health care. you think who can crush donald trump will be the single most important question? >> i think it will be. health care, tax the rich, raise the minimum wage. and mass encarceration. all these things that are essentially being pushed by the new progressive democrats in the house, that's what i -- i wish -- it's too bad that you have to be 35 to be president. put that in the constitution. the founding fathers, because died at 38 or 40 back then. we need to lower that. if that was lowered to 30. >> all right. alexandria ocasio-cortez, is that where you're going with this? >> she just has to be 30 by the

time -- >> everyone can out progressive each other. >> she is the leader. she's the leader, everyone knows it, everyone feels it, she's the leader of this mass movement, i'm not talking about a movement in terms of an organization. i'm talking about a fox news poll this week, where it said, 70% of the american public agree with her on having the top marginal rate for the rich, their taxes, 70% rate on the rich. that's a fox news poll saying that. over 2/3 of the country support that. >> there are a lot of americans that support that. they also don't remember that we had marginal tax rates above 90%. >> i grew up in that time. >> i'm not advocating for it. >> the libraries were open, there weren't potholes, schools were great. >> fox likes talking about alexandria ocasio-cortez many i

think they talk about her more than anyone else does. the right is enjoying having her as the image of what democrats are. is there a danger if someone that progressive runs, that it does turn off moderates? or do you think that's a danger not worth worried about? >> if you're moderate, stop being moderate. take a position, there's no middle ground any more. there's no halfway point to, should someone be paid a living wage? well, i'm a moderate, so i think they could be paid half of a living wage. on the issue of choice. there's no halfway there. you're either for it or you're against it. you know, do you believe in equal rights for women? do you believe we should have an equal rights amendment? yes or no. there's no middle ground. this is no time for moderation. >> where there is middle ground is health care and taxes. >> how much? 70% of the people said tax the rich. >> or what kind of health care, right? there are many ways of ensuring

everyone. you know i like my system from canada, it's one of several systems that most of the developed world use. >> yes, all of the developed world. don't say most. don't be a moderate and pull your punch here. all of the developed world has -- >> except for america. >> except for this country. and it's shameful, and we look weird too. you can't explain it to a person from another country. >> it's not a progressive policy anywhere else in the world, it's just the policy. >> conservatives in canada would never think of removing their canadian health care. britain, all behind it. this is the craziest thing -- >> you feel strongly that it's progressive and specifically alexandria ocasio-cortez? >> yeah, i don't think people define themselves in the old way, i'm a democrat, i'm a republican. people have had it. they're tired of living from

paycheck to paycheck. they know they're kids aren't going to pay off those student loans. >> we saw it in the shutdown. >> lie after lie. there's lines in canada outside the doctors offices. lie after lie after lie after lie. has ralph called us yet, anybody? we have one minute left, ralph. >> i'm not holding out a lot of hope. >> i'm disappointed. >> michael, thank you as always for being here, i appreciate it. we will remember this conversation when 2020 comes around. >> super bowl sunday let me just say. >> you're going to make a prediction? >> quit the wining saints. in that same game of that pass interference, there were two face masks that the saints did to the rams that the refs didn't catch. a roughing up of a player, and the clock had run down, brady didn't snap the ball. you could look at four different things that could have changed

the game where the refs missed it on the saints. the saints 2012, cash for -- they gave bonuses to their players if they broke the bones on the other side. that coach was suspended for a year. >> we're out of time. "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts now. the breaking news tonight. the democratic virginia governor admits he's one of two men in a 1984 photo, one in black face, the other in a klan outfit. he has apologized but calls are flooding in for him to leave. a federal judge says she's considering a gag order which may be a tall order considering his appearance on fox tonight. his description of the case against him as a lynching and the video he posted this week on what to wear for your arraignment in federal court. and donald trump now back in the friendly confines of mar-a-lago this evening, leaving