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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  April 2, 2019 1:00am-2:00am PDT

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because people just do it that way. >> yeah, i think that's well said. asia moodie-mills and zephyr teachout, thank you for being with me tonight. tonight supeen aa fight. and the ag saying he won't hand it over until late april. both sides appear dug in and bracing for a stand off. a whistleblower reveals two dozen white house officials were granted a security clearance after being denied access by career professionals and the president wants an immigration czar after he threatens to shut down it the border. "the 11th hour" on a monday night starts right now. good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters.
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in for bryan williams. day 802 and we are now less than one hour away from the operal 2nd deadline set by top house democrats for the release of the unredacted mueller report. it's highly unlukely the justice department will neat deadline. house judiciary chairman escalated the confrontation over the release of the spouns oal's findings. nadler says his committee will vote wednesday to authorize the subpoena to get the riri port and tonight the chairman was asked how that vote might go. >> i assume he will be issuing subpoenas soon. >> will they join you in your effort? >> in today's "new york times" nadler slammed barr's four-page smagz, writing quote by offering
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us his version of events in lieu of the report, the attorney general undermines the work and init teg rety of his department. a senior administration official calls it political theater. on friday the attorney general pledged to release a redacted version of the mueller report he says is nearly 400 pages long by mid-april if not sooner. and president trump writing quote no matter what information is given to the crazed democrats from the no collusion mueller report, it will never be good enoughf. behind closed doors, the demes are laughing. >> i don't mind. frankly i told the house if you want, let them see it.
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>> it's up to the attorney general but it doesn't matter to me at all. if that's what he'd like the do, i have nothing to hide. >> the latest polling shows the vast majority of americans agree it the report needs to be released. and a new poll shows only 29% of americans believe the mueller report clears trump of wrong doing. 49% say it does not. the house judiciary committee targeted five former west wing staffers. who may be witnesses. it the kmut ey will vote on whether to authorize subpoenas from former white house counsel don mcgahn. he spent at least 30 hours with investigators and witnessed the fewering of jim come ea, at.ed firing of mueller and attempts to get sessions recused.
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and according to the "new york times" quote turned over exhaustive notes who detailed in real time and she sometimes put white lies for it the president plp reince priebus, who was in that job when trump attempted to fire mueller and force associations to resign and steve bannon was in the west wing doing things during early seasonal events. let's bring in our leadoff panel from monday night. white house reporter from the associated press. former assistant u.s. attorney from the eastern and southern district of new york and executive editor of "bloomberg opinion" and georgetown law school professor. it's hard to talk at 1104:00.
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jonathan, talk me through president's -- it is as though you've said you okay with grilled cheese? oh, yeah, i'm fine with that. then it would end was foreseeable and the president has an evolving response on whether it's going to be good or bad for him feels like moving target. >> all the gold around him. he was sitting next and she was stepping down from the post. the white house is sending mixt signals. and suggestesting the democrats would never be satisfied with what we give them and we know attorney general barr on friday laid out a few things that would be cause for redactions and some of them, grand jury testimony that might be legitimate. other things, including to prevent the embarrassment of third parties, that seems somewhere where democrats may
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want to fight. but it's clear the democrats are not just going to take this lying down. they're not just going to be satisfied with whatever timeline barr wants to give them, they're going to be a fight in the white house. yes, had tried to gt ahead of the story. not the findings. tried to jump the news cycle and frame it as a win. but now it's clear that seems to be proomture. >> and with one of the shoes is dash it looks like donald trump didn't actually read. three and a half pages unwhich the most newsworthy line was mueller does not exonerate the president in half of what they spent time investigating and i wonder as it becomes abundantly clear that conititant, we don't know because there isn't a single complete sentence in the barr summary, may look pretty
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incriminating. >> and to some extent, barr was criticized for jumping unand guving his conclusion on the obstruction piece in the summary that's not really a summary. to some extent it doesn't mat wlr the obstructive content was a crime. what matters is the actions themselves and the extent they're detailed and that report makes its waw to congress and then to the people, the american people are going to be the ones to decide. it can still be very relevant for people and congress to hear about. >> but mueller didn't decide whether it did or did not. barr did. >> and that's the one thing that was clear in this barr sum rae was there was no can decision on
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that. whether that was because he intended not to go to congress or because he wanted it to be reserved we don't know. i think the more important thing is there will certainly be evidence in the report that looks bad for the president. this does not exonerate the president. whether it reaches the level of crimall most doesn't matter. >> there's a terrible game in the media and legal circles what mueller wanted. we know what he did. watch what they do, not what they say. what mueller did, on the obstruction evidence, is he walked in three plus weeks ago and said here it is. i neither mock a it
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determination to prosecute nor do i mock a determination -- >> not the one bill barr suggestests which is mueller basically said to him oh, this is too hard but can you please do my homework for me and make a can decision in this case. mueller has some of the country's best prosecutors and agents. he ran the criminal division in the fbi. most likely what he was doing is saying that there is evidence that president obstructed justice, which is why he couldn't exonerate trump and he was sending it not to bill barr fwhut congress to make a decision whether the level reached impeachment. >> and one of our colleagues
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here said tonight on "the beat." >> barr's going well beyond the rules. mueller says he can't decide whether ornot there's obstruction of of justice or not. and barr takes it on himself to say i'm go itting to clear -- and that's un of themany reasons they're right to say by tomorrow turn over the full report. >> when it starts to get interesting. >> bill barr auditioned for the job and part of his audition was saying i have a very public and well-thought out view of obstruction and i don't believe the president of the united states can commit obstruction. donald trump doesn't read, but he has reptillian survival
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instincts. and i don't think after watching jeff associations recuse himself, i don't think it's an accident that when we come to it this moment of bill barr having to make a decision on how to interpret obstruction of justice that he steps into that vacuum and says fine, you're done with this. the other side of this with nadler and the congress is they would be wise not to relitigate all it the conspiracy issues. but they have a door they can push open. so had you see them subpoenaing don mcgahn. sally yates walk over and says we have tapes of michael flynn.
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this matters. we think you should do with it and they didn't until they were forced with press accounts to do something. there's probably more digging they can do with obstruction if they're methaudic and patient i thunk 23 they get seen as bullying barr to turn over a document prematuraly, it gives barr capitol he probably doesn't need and if they're patient, i think it's go itting to develop in to an interesting story lune. >> he actually wrote a president can't be interrogated on obstruction. there was no chance mueller was going to be able to ask the president any with questions about the obstruction investigation and he refused to do so anyway. donald trump made clear what he wanted in an ag. does he have that? >> i don't know that he has quite roy roan. but someone who as the president's back. who we know that it the president wanted his roy cone.
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he wanted someone to be loyal to him like perceived eric holder was. jeff sessions, to the president's line, created the ultimate betrayal by choosing country over the it president himself, which is not how the job is supposed to work. he demands it and he didn't get it from jeff associations. barr did write that 18-page letter. and that he did not think the president could be interrogated or indicted. and mueller clearly thinking about the indictment and in this case seemed to defer and over ruled by barr if he tried to push for the lasts round of questioning. and instead he settled for written answers and is why we have so many questions now. >> could anyone have proven
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obstruction? >> i mean look, we have to do that as prosecutors all the time because it's not always an option to interview your subjects because your investigation is covert still or because the person doesn't want to talk to you. i will say yes, it's possible. prosculator kurts do it all the time. and you would hop a person in leadership would want to be as cooperative as they can. >> could there have been anyone more hostile than the man who is now the country's attorney general?
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>> odonald trump famously fired sessions or ran home out of office because sessions wouldn't protect him in the russia investigation. donald trump did not make that mistake when he chose his new attorney general. out of the lawyers in the country, he chose a man who decided to write a letter saying that mueller's theory of obstruction was unsupportable. and this is the person who will decide how much of that investigation the american people goot see. and even the word used, scrub is the technical term for removing privileged material from the mueller are port. do we really trust this man who's acting like a partisan lawyer for the president than a representative of the united states of america.
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it do we trust him to scrub a document that contains very damaging information about the president? >> something that may be scrubbed from it, on fox news tonight. >> talking about this nonsense further and after two years and being wrong so many times is not productive and an embarrassment to the democracy. >> he's like 47 more minutes. this is the guy that couldn't get a a national security clearance but his father in law weighed un. he used whatsapp to talk to world leaders. an embaresment to the nation is nowhere near robert mueller and his investigation. >> this is the guy who was quoting chinese investigators and the circumstances around that have never gotten fully resolved. they only backed away during the transition because it became public through reporting. and he held meetings when he was
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asked did you ask for money and he said no. i'm not convinced that was truthful. i think there's a lot to look at in jared kushner using the powers of his aufgs and proximity to the president to further his own mess. whether it's through business relationships in the middle east with asia orrussia and that hasn't played out onvery rich and robust way and the country has a right to know whether he's been an honest broker in all of that. >> do you think they will? >> i don't know. >> me either. thank you so much. coming up. a whistleblower warns the handling of security clearances has put the nation at risk. we'll assess risk with two people that know. and latter two surprising numbers in from a big blue state candidate and an industrial
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sitting mayor. termites. we're on the move. hey rick, all good? oh yeah, we're good. we're good. terminix. defenders of home.
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a whistleblower is accusing the trump white house of over ruling 25 security clearance denials. including clearances for two current senior white house officials. trisha is a security specialist who's worked for democratic and republican presidents. she raised her concerns last month. she said coming forward is her
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last hope to bring nothing teg rety back to the office. these 25 individuals had a wide range of disqualifying factors including quote foreign influence, conflicts of ininterest, concerning personal conduct, drug use and criminal conduct. chairman elijah cummings is asking had the white house for security clearance ajudeication sumries for nine current and former white house employees including jared kushner, national security advisor and former national security advisor michael flynn. in an interview with fox news, jared kushner was asked about her coming forward. >> what i can say is over the last two years i've bun here, i've bun accused of all different up tos of things and all those thing turned out to be false. like that we collude would
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russia. i comply would all the investigations whether it be the special counsel, the house. i sat for nearly 20 interviews with them. >> former member of the joint terrorism task force and nelson cunningham under bill clinton where he over saw security clearances unthat role. he's also a former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. let me ask you is it more than troubling conduct among a handful of individuals when this is 25 applications dedenied and then over ruled? does that suggest the entire system is broken or corrupted? >> i've never seen anything like this. i came in the clinton white house about this time, two yearinize to the administration and in the first year or two of that administration you often find the slow downs insecurity clearances.
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you got whole white house full of new staff. many are from campaign backgrounds. it can take a while to process these people and get them through. bill clinton had back logs. bill clunten certainly had big back logs in his first two years. by the time i got there it had all been resolved. it had been reported there were two employees who had drug use issues in their past and political appointees had said no, no. we'd like the give them security clearances. that's two people. what woor arer hearing today is there were 25 people in the first two years of the trump administration where political decision makers over ruled the career security professionals.
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i never heard of anything like that. >> i've been vetted twice. once during president bush's first term and second time after his reelection and one time i was a candidate for a job that fbi. that was a higher degree of scrutiny. year talking about howmany times did you smoke pot in college. what she's talking about is the cia flagged jared kushner's application. what do have to do for the cew a to raise concerns? >> drug use o cay. criminal condulkts. that's a deal breaker. financial problems which makes you vulnerable. aldridge aims, if you remember, that was part of it there. these are all huge red flag issues.
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the number we're talking about is way out of bounds. they'vallred ea been cleared before or they've been prescreened to make sure they quickly get things processed. and it was interesting even from the republican who except for a few who are denied, which is more alarming, we on elaneed it deny them if it's so bad you wouldn't need it. we just went through a two-year investigation focussed on foreign influence. can you imagine wanting to share with us right now. you've seen this messy investigation and you don't know if your intelligence and there's a lot of things to be concerned
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about. do you go in the white house and divulge anything or are you nervous about giving the information up in the white house? >> i feel like what you're saying is this can could have a chilling effect on what is share would the u.s. government from 94telligence partners. is that what you're saying. and doing a review to say what is the effect of our breaking of alliances, and the foreign intelligence sharing over the last couple years. are we just getting info from authoritarians whose backs we scratch? >> we knee the president after khashoggi was slaughtered. let me ask you what power congress has. dud you work with your oversight committees?
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do they have the ability to get to the bottom of this and protect classified information? >> they do. when ib work at the clunten white house, they had just taken the senate in 1994. so we were democrats dealing with the republican house andsont. we're eager to investigate what we were doing. i can tell you those republican committees were not stopped by anything in pressing forward fl information. seeking it. looking for accountability. i see no reason why it would be improper for the house democrats to hold trump's neat fire, especially given the range of issues raised by the security clearances here. woo have a process in place
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that's been built overmany years. we have career firb officials. career employees in the executive office of the president who come in administration likeads ministration. 25 people in two years is beyond anything i could imagine in my time in the clinton white house. >> is this more than another example of incompetence? >> i think it speaks to the whole idea -- the president will over rule on these things. all standards and processes have been broken. and it cripples their ability to do their job. whether it's smearing the fbi on twitter or going after the security clearances and
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weakening our securing intelligence and information. allred ea a tough job like it is. why are they doing it whenever the circumstances, the deck is stacked against them? >> thank you for that. i'll be up all night worrying. coming up 19 months before elexz date 2020, a couple more democrats are generating big crowds. new details tonight. (client's voice) remember that degree you got in taxation?
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i am who i am as everybody come nothing to this process is and i'm certainly passionately committed to making sure the leadership in this country as i tried to make sure it is in my administration reflects diversity. if a millennial son of an immigrant who's a gay veteran isn't part of the diversity of our party, then i don't know what else i can say. >> that was south bend, indiana mayor, pete buttigieg. he raised more than $7 million in the first quarter. that's just behind senator kamala harris who released her $12 million total a late tonight. we haven't soon the fund raising figures yet.
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from beto o'rourke who formally kicked off his campaign this weekend. he drew massive crowds in his home state of texas and among seven other candidates in the we the people summit today. with us to talk about it all, columnist and associatedter and real washington correspondent for boston's npr news station. mayor pete has not made a single misstep and if anything he keeps getting better. he knows how to take a news cycle and put his message -- which seems to be his story, into that news cycle effortlessly and it's paying off. >> remember too, we are really early in the primary season. a large number of democrats have
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not even begun paying attention. for multiple candidates at this point to be pulling in these large fund raising numbers says something. it's good news for the party ungeneral and certainly for these candidates. somebody like mayor buttigieg who doesn't hold state wide office. foks are still trying to say his name right is able to inspire people to the point where he's able to pull in these types of numbers. there's been questions about whether he has enough operation in place and whether he can really play in the big leagues. i think one thing we learned is convention has been thrown out of the window. we ecan talk about iowa, new hampshire. this is a very small percentage of all the democrats that will have the say and be the next candidate. four years ago donald trump wasn't in it and even when he
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did get in it, people didn't take him serious la. and look what happened. we have to let this play out and see what happens. senator harris's pull of $12 million is a big impressive number. again this early in the season. >> she too real a exceeding i think, not just expectations because that's a media game. but raising a sizeable amount of money at a point where the field feels crowded. >> she has played this shrewdly. she has a focussed operation that intends to get to the right groups and penetrate and excite them. so while she's not giving a lot of media interviews and making the charm offensive splash that pete is, she's doing the solid work in south carolina and other
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places to generate support to make her coalition -- and as someone who covers washington, she didn't smile her first several years in the senate. and she earn its out to be quite compelling. she giggles and laughs and sticks around for pictures. she's really packing rooms. and it the right approach. i just think working the street quietly met forically is really smart early on and she doesn't have to be as magnetic to get the attention because her candidacy is exciting. you can tell it's breaking through. >> i think she may have posted the largest crowd size, which we know -- and coming up joe biden's past become as question
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about joe biden's future before he even announces a bid.
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before he's announced his plans for the future, former vice president joe biden is having to can defend his past. second woman has come forward accusing biden of oinappropriate conflict. woman came forward to detail her interaction that mod her feel uneasy, gross and confused. >> reporter: today a second volunteer came forward saying he rubbed noses with her in 2009. unwanted contact she described as not sexual. uninvited affection is not okay. objectifying women is not okay. her account not verified.
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she says she came forward after lucy flores says biden made her uncancomefortable. >> he leans down, smells my hair and plants a kiss on my head. i'm not in any way saying i felt sexually harassed. i felt invaded. >> i have offered countless hand shocks, hugs, and comfort. ash carter's wife stephanie for his much criticized shoulder rub. she writes he was just a close friend offering support. and blasting what he call as cottage droo of lies about the former vice president. it was biden comforting his grand son at bo biden's funeral. have you ever seen him being too huggy? >> i personally haven't soon
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that. >> i believe lucy flores and joe biden needs to answer. >> i have no reason not to believe lucy. >> and i've never needed them more. let me figure out how to say this diplomat cla. are we at moment -- i mean is this a black and white issue for the democrats? or are it the democrats going to thrash of course we believe the woman. i like the think no woman lies and sits out to destroy someone's life with a a lie. is he done? >> i thunk it the decision whether this is disqualifying or not lies with the voters. this is an issue that he had to have seen coming and the people
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around him have to have seen coming. and keep in mind these are stories of women telling how they felt about someone touching them. on twitter and in statements i've seen a lot of foks in joe biden's corner saying much too much is being made out of this and i'm not sure that's tellingwomanen they don't have a right to say how someone touching them made it them feel is going to age very well. but i think joe biden gets through the only way is to address it. he didn't mean it. he didn't think it was inappropriate. a lot of women do understand what it is like when you're in a professional setting and someone is not their significant other or family member puts their hands or lips on them, it's up to them to decide how that mocks
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them feel and joe biden needs to acknowledge he understands that. they will make the decision this behavior isn't as bad as other behavior. >> he as agonized so long and so much, i'm not entirely sure he will enter the race. the reporting is this is not going to push him out. he seems so conflucted all along. no question if it looks like the voters are going to come after him and contenders who might not make it in the long run until next year, sort of seeming excited to jump on this. i don't know if this is going to dissuade him? they're going to go on about the iraq war and anita hill and on and on. i think this is a strange moment
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for the democratic party is there was backlash to forcing al franken out of thesont. among female donors, leaders in the party. so this is still being debated within the party and it's not just the opinion of lucy flores and this other woman it might be disqualifying. year having another conversation. i'm not sure the primary electorate has resolved itself on a lot of issues and it's not known what voters are going to say. i'll be interested to see how far senator brand and gillibrand and sanders are going to take this. >> we haven't said the name donald trump in this segment. but a man who grabbed about grabbing women in the bleep will be the opponent for whom ever. >> this is not a general election issue for joe biden, it
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can't boo, it won't be. >> i'm not sure. remember that donald trump brought paula jones to a debate. i'm not sure it won't be an issue. >> you're a brave woman to do it. thank you both. coming up. help wanted in the trump administration. must be on board with building that wall. >> what happened in the past few months that the president is now threatening to shut down the of psoriatic arthritis. but you're still moved by moments like this. don't let psoriatic arthritis take them away. taltz reduces joint pain and stiffness and helps stop the progression of joint damage. for people with moderate to severe psoriasis, 90% saw significant improvement. taltz even gives you a chance
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at completely clear skin. don't use if you're allergic to taltz. before starting, you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection, symptoms, or received a vaccine or plan to. inflammatory bowel disease can happen with taltz, including worsening of symptoms. serious allergic reactions can occur. for all the things that move you. ask your doctor about taltz. we're on the move. hey rick, all good? oh yeah, we're good. we're good. terminix. defenders of home.
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>> what happened in the past few months that the president is now threatening to shut down the border? >> just look at the math. look at the math.
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how many folks are coming across. this is a crisis. we need to fix it. >> now they want us to do math. president trump continues to threaten to shut down the southern border, as soon as this week. this, comes as border crossings reached an 11-year high in february and are expected to increase in the coming months. the u.s. chamber of commerce warns closing the border could inflict severe economic harm on u.s. civilians. associated press reported today trump is also looking to hire an immigration czar to coordinate his policies across agencies. in those under consideration, ap reports, quote, trump is weighing two potential candidates for the post, former kansas secretary of state kris kobach and former virginia attorney general ken cuccinelli,
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two far-right conservatives with strong views on immigration. i never thought that two names could make me miss keirsten nelson's views on immigration. minors by themselves on unaccompanied minor trains and flights out of the -- what isn't going harshly enough for him in the category of immigration? >> going tougher seems harder to believe but that seems to be the message that the white house is telegraphing. great work from my colleagues at the ap. it shows you the renewed emphasis on this issue of immigration for this white house right now, even coming off what they perceive, at least for now, is a victory on the mueller report. they want to shift back to what they believe is their core agenda, enforcing that southern border. the wall has not been built. although the president is going
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on friday to the border in california to inspect a piece of it under construction. we should expect to hear a lot about this then. then the new plan. first of all, the u.s. cut off aid to three central american nations, those that the president feels is responsible for creating these caravans even though most experts feel that will make things worts. if you want people to stay in that country, you should give that country money to improve conditions there and now this threat to shut down the border. no one thinks it can be done in a week's time, as the president suggests. he has threatened this twice before and not followed through. but people in the white house say this time feels more real than others. >> feeling real has my mind spinning. on a tirade on twitter tonight. talk about it. >> in addition, republicans are very nervous about the plan to shut the border. there are also republicans very nervous about the president's suddenly renewed interest in health care. he has gone on a three-tweet spread this evening, suggesting that though he does want to repeal and replace obamacare and create a new gop plan, he's punting it, pushing it beyond the 2020 elections.
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he says after republicans win back the house and senate. >> never mind. >> he doesn't want to do that now. in the short term that's a relief for republicans who did not want to be saddled with this. but in 2020 that will be a major point for him. >> and maybe someone reminded him it was health care that got the democrats elected. the 11th hour back after this.
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that's all the time we have for tonight. i'll be back here tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. eastern and sit down with preet bharara, former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york 4:00 p.m. eastern. that's our broadcast for tonight. thank you so much for staying up with us and good night from msnbc news headquarters in new york.
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. bracing for a possible border shutdown. president trump is threatening to close the southern border this week but some top republicans are warning about the impact to the u.s. economy. as he weighs a 2020 presidential run another woman is excusing joe biden of inappropriate contact. >> house democrats are escalating the standoff on the mueller report. they are threatening a subpoena if bill barr doesn't issue the report in full. good morning, everybody. it is