tv Deadline White House MSNBC April 6, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
"politics nation." protection under the law and up next, deadline white house fairness to everyone. the way to deal with it is to with my f discuss it, confront it and solve it. don't finger point at those that have the courage to raise it. hi, everyone. that does it for me. it's 4:00 in new york and the i'll see you back h hits keep on coming for donald trump and his white house. the president trying to steady himself after high profile political embarrassments on big issues like health care and the border. and his white house working overtime to fend off legal threats from an emboldened and empowered democratic run house with no shortage of scandals and crisis to investigate, after a full week of self-inflicted policy chaos, trump is back at the border today making the case for a wall rejected by republicans and democrats just a few weeks ago. politico reporting today on how trump has squandered a week that should have offered him a much reset. quote, it was just last week that president trump and hisller
special counsel robert mueller's russia probe but misfortune and mayhem almost immediately began piling up. trump unleashed two political crisis, one on health care and the border, and then retreated on both of them. the legislative whiplash of trump's own making colliding with uncomfortable truths about robert mueller's findings now creeping into public view. democrats intensifying their efforts to obtain mueller's full unredacted report as well as his communications with the justice department. in the wake of news that mueller's team believes their report is worse than attorney general william barr made it out to be. barr is expected to release a redacted version of that report in the coming days. the white house likely painfully aware that any new information released in that report is likely to fall short of what they've celebrated as a total exoneration. as we wait to see what barr will reveal of mueller's nearly 400-page report and any summaries he prepared for public
view, trump is mounting an aggressive legal defense against yet another challenge, the formal request from the house ways and means committee to turn over six years of his tax returns. according to new reporting from "the washington post," quote, privately trump has told white house advisers that he does not plan to hand over his tax returns to congress and that he would fight the issue to the supreme court hoping to stall it until after the 2020 election. his lawyers are going to be very busy, though. a new report about an unusual number of whistle-blowers, including some from inside the white house, sure to increase the president's angst. the atlantic reporting today, a small army of whistle-blowers from across the government has been working in secret with the house oversight committee to report alleged malfeasance inside the trump administration. the list of whistle-blowers who either currently or previously worked in the trump administration or who worked closely with the administration numbers in the dozens. that's according to a senior
aide from the committee and that's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. john heilman is back, co-host of show times, this circus. we've missed you. and jane fox, senior reporter for vanity fair and carol lee because joyce vance and peter baker, msnbc political analyst and "new york times" chief correspondent. peter baker, i saw you on "morning joe" this morning and as you all ticked through the litany of terrible headlines for the president this morning in your paper and in the ones we cited, i thought, wow is it everything just wear off this quickly? we're all living these new cycles that feel like san diego years and it feels like seven years ago, not one or two weeks ago, that the news of the mueller report wrapped up and terrible week of headlines, a crush of bad news for donald trump? >> exactly. the barr letter, the bill barr
letter about the mueller investigation feels like a million years ago. it should have been something that lasted for a while for this president, right? he went through two years of ordeal with this investigation. the conclusions, at least, the bottom line conclusions seemed to work in his favor. you would have thought he would want to spend more time soaking that in and enjoying the aftermath of that, but you're right. he headed straight into health care and the border and we've seen these headlines on his tax returns and on his whistle-blowers. this is not been the best few days for a guy who just came out of a pretty tough investigation. >> john, i talked to a close trump ally in the first 24 hours after the barr summary came out so i guess that's sunday night and i said, do you think this changes trump's presidency and he said, well, no, because trump is still trump. it doesn't change anything. give him a week he'll be under investigation again. >> it took less than a week, not for being under investigation but to be making the same kinds of mistakes that he's made over and over again. it's the case that a lot of
politicians and we've seen this in both parties for a long time, a politician who in the flush in a moment of victory or exoneration overreaches, overplays their hands. trump is like all politicians on steroids because the ego is greater. the fact that he overplayed his hand so dramatically on these other answer sillry issues, things he had no reason to dive in to, no reason to dive into health care and no reason to go back to the border wall and yet he does it. you think about the gamble that was made i think to some extent by the attorney general and by all of trump's allies that, like, if you could cement the perceptions of the mueller report as having been good for him at the beginning that somehow that would last is a foolish misreading of the news environment we now live in and that everything -- the first impressions aren't what matter, the last impressions are what matter and we are far away from
the last impressions on the mueller report. >> this wasn't our plan but it's a perfect detour. this is precisely the problem with spin these days. this is why donald trump became president. there's no place for spin in a fact driven scenario which is what the mueller probe was and if there are facts in a report, in some ways it matters less what the conclusion was because everyone will take the original source information and do with it what they may. >> and on that sunday night if you asked the 300 smartest people about politics that you knew in both parties, do you think the mueller report would eventually become public, eventually, all of them would say, yeah, of course. given everything that's happened over the last two years, the political reality is, it will become public. mueller will testify. we will -- it will all come out in the open. if you're knew that on sunday night, your calculus would never be, we've got to win the day. the long run is where this
battle is joined and won or lost. >> it's such a good reminder, joyce vance, and it makes -- it makes me think two things, one, barr was out of the game a very long time and two, having worked in the executive branch of government, you can become very, very insulated. we learned this week some of the reporting that barr was exacerbated or frustrated by mueller's final conclusion but in this climate, you have to let someone like mueller who's credibility and integrity will always be viewed as exceeding any political appointees. you have to let it stand whatever it is. >> the fifth floor of the justice department can be a very heady place and also a very isolated place where an attorney general, particularly as one as new as barr to the job, is surrounded by people who are maybe trying to tell him what they think he wants to hear as they settle into knew positions. whatever happened here there was a real disconnect between barr, who should have known exactly as you say all of these details
will come out, people will judge the report for himself, so he's now staked his credibility on his four page summary as opposed to mueller's decades of service which are now going to be backed up by hard facts and people can see the facts for themselves and draw their own conclusions at the end of the day. >> so carol, you're an investigative reporter and actually peter baker covered the white house in which i worked. i was involved in two pretty high profile and i don't know that reporters would have found them successful of declassifying information of grave public interest, one was in 9/11 and dick clark grew the public and press to what the president knew about bin laden before 9/11 and the other was the wmd report during the iraq war trying to understand exactly the intel said. in both exercises, even when we had all the information in front of us, as you said, we knew then staring at classified
information, staring at human intelligence, staring at the most sensitive secrets that it would all come out eventually and it wasn't if, it was how, there are so many examples of this happening. i can't think of any on the other side. what do you think they were thinking? >> it's hard to know what they were thinking, but what's clear now is that the president had in terms of the conclusion of the mueller investigation the best day he's going to have on that issue and he did what we've been talking about with it which is squander it by riding too high and self- -- taking another self-inflicted wound which is the story of his presidency and you can see now that regardless of how the mueller report comes out, it's going -- there's going to be more information and as there's more information, it's not going to be as good of a story for him and you can see this white house trying to adjust to that and you heard it in the president's remarks about releasing the report. they're not as definitive as they were. sure, get it all out.
that's how he was initially and now it's a little more tempered. so i think that you're going to see, again, what we started to see while the investigation was ongoing and attack, a digging in and a very defensive crowd from this white house. >> i want you to jump in on this as well. bill crystal tweet this had morning that, you know, so far the democratic party taking over the house has yielded only good things, real investigations and oversight into the executive branch that are much needed. any one with just a cursory sense of what's in the news could see there's corruption from the top to the bottom of the white house and throughout the cabinet. they've got tools and they've got assets and one of them is michael cohen who's offering to stick around and offer them some more help. >> sure. michael cohen is one of a number of people who will happily share anything that they have saved and they have saved a lot of things that will help these investigations. this is why elections matter. we now know that 2016 mattered
tremendously. we're watching the fruits of the 2018 election matter because the democrats now have the house and are able to open these many, many very consequential, very deep investigations and this is why 2020's going to matter as well. >> i want to come back to you, peter, on one of the big fights, one of the new fronts that have been opened and that's a legislative effort to get something that donald trump said to you and your colleagues in the oval office would be beyond his red line, his taxes, his financial information. take us inside that brewing battle. >> that's exactly right. they've asked the congress has now asked for six years of his tax return. every president except richard nixon has voluntarily provided tax returns. you'll start to see some of those come out. president trump, of course, said audit. but nothing prevented him from releasing them if he chose to and nothing prevented him from releasing the two years of tax
returns he would have filed in 2017 and 2018 and he was presumably about to file 2019. he's saying, no, i'm not going to do that. talk to my lawyers. he's making it very clear that that is a red line. congress said we ought to see those because how we will understand the motivations he would have in terms of finances and things like russia. the president says you're just going for a fishing expedition and you're out to get me and that's part of his line these days. his line is the per petual investigative machine is all about partisan witch-hunt. it's not about what bill crystal said in terms of oversight. it's about trying to get me. that's going to resonate with his base. >> reading the back of the cheerios box would resonate with his base. joyce vance you've been -- >> there's a lot of writing on those boxes. >> don't be dissing cheerios literature. >> everything i know about
nutrition i learned on the back of a box of cheerios. trump asked the confirmation of the irs counsel be a priority but you've been tweeting about the broader issue of the political appointees at the irs. president trump asked mitch mcconnell to prioritize a confirmation vote for his nominee to be the chief counsel of the irs indicating that it was a higher priority than voting on the nomination of william barr as attorney general, a person familiar with the conversation said. really? wow. >> this obviously matters to him an awful lot, it's almost as though wants to have roy cones every place. ultimately this is up to the irs and not up to the president. >> carol, i want to ask you about this tax fight. this seems to be the sort of -- maybe a side play where trump --
and peter's right. he's going to march out this trope that it's a witch-hunt and that is going to work with the 38% who would be satisfied with the back of a cereal box. there may be questions that could turn it. what is he hiding? every other politician, every other person that's run for president has turned over their taxes. it could be a tipping point and you've even got a republican senator from louisiana saying i would like to see his taxes because mueller didn't say he's not benefiting from any of his business interests. mueller didn't clear him on a question of emoluments, mueller didn't clear him on conflicts of interests, mueller didn't clear him on anything other than there was not a witting criminal conspiracy to interfere with the 2016 election with russia. >> during the campaign, not now where you have this open question of whether or not the president, his businesses, his background, who he's done business with, what his debts are, all of these things that people don't know, how that impacts policy, particularly
foreign policy, perhaps domestic policy and that's the big question that's hanging out there. the question also is, how much do people wind up caring? and to a certain extent, that is going to depend on how the democrats play their hand because if they are narrowly -- more narrowly targeting their investigations at very specific things like tax returns and hitting the reasons why they're important, then that may play better than just a whole host of investigations that the republicans say, it's just a fishing expedition, they want to get me on something. that's the risk and the balance and i don't think we know yet. >> it's chicken and egg. if you didn't have so many corrupt people doing so many bad things, there wouldn't be justification for investigations. >> i don't care what donald trump's base thinks about this. i don't care what anybody thinks about this. in fact, donald trump started shredding norms in the campaign
when he refused to release his tax returns. we want to know what our president -- what's in our president' tax returns so we can judge their actions in office in terms of whether they're behaving in a corrupt way. we want to know where they made -- that's why presidents voluntarily turned over their tax returns for years. there's no law about it, probably there should be, but presidents of both parties have done it for generations where they turn these things over to say, look, here's where my money comes from. they wanted to get to the point where it was i'm only acting as president in the interest of the company. we may have different views, but this is not about my personal enrichment and nothing i do has anything to do with my financial state of being and whether i'm going to enrich myself. donald trump, even in the campaign even though many journalists yelled about it constantly said he must, he must, he must, he said, no, no, no. he got elected. it's not a fishing expedition. it's a super important norm that
the democrats are now right to enforce. it should be legislated it's that important. i don't know what we'll find out. i don't actually care but it's a really important norm. we need to understand where their sources of incomes are. >> how do you get people to care? people at any time care obviously enough that he got elected and it's not clear that they would care now. >> i think politicians -- if you want to maintain the validity of norms, politicians need to go out and argue, make the case with their constituents that it matters. that's all politics ever is the art of persuasion. if people stop caring the norms will erode on their own which is why for politicians to explain to their constituents that they're not on a fishing expedition and this isn't about donald trump. it's about maintaining this tradition that's had a valuable place in political history. >> people do care about this kind of thing. donald trump ran on draining the
swamp. that was a message that resonated with people. people understood what a tax form is. this is something that people can inherently understand and it's a message that resonated with that 38%. not only is it incredibly important as john just said but it is something that people care about and it is something that people fundamentally get. >> i agree with that, when it's something that everyone can relate to, people go into h&r block, people know what kind of information is on there, i wonder if you think that robert mueller, chuck rosen berg thought it was a certainty that robert mueller was able to look at an examine donald trump's tax returns. do you think there's any information about his taxes in the 400 pages that will be released? >> so tax information is pretty carefully protected inside of doj. it actually can't be revealed so if there's anything in there my expectation is it'll be redacted. i assume that mueller like prosecutors in the southern district of new york started in many ways with taxes, they're a
bible for prosecutor. they're a road map that tells you where to go and what to look at. it's interesting in that this regard that mueller restricted his mission so carefully to the question of conspiracy with russia and the question of obstruction because the taxes are really a road map to all sorts of other potential criminal conduct or unethical conduct, even if the taxes themselves can't be disclosed, that can lead to investigations that will become public. >> peter, let me give you the last word on this. your paper's done an extraordinarily deep dive into really, you know, the taxes as a window into the soul of the biggest fraud donald trump has ever perpetrated on the public, the idea that he's self-made and successful. he's neither. talk about the importance of the taxes from inside that white house. i imagine -- i don't believe a lot of what comes out of trump's mouth but the idea that he'll take this fight all the way to the supreme court, i think you can take that to the bank. >> yeah. i think that's right. my colleagues as you know spent
18 months looking at what is available about his taxes. obviously we don't have the returns everybody is looking for, but based on what they were able to put together, they came away with a pretty extraordinary picture of his financial dealings with the government going back years and years and that showed, among other things, you know, very selective valuations of property for the purpose of, you know, minimizing taxes, it showed that a lot of money had come from his father despite his portrayal of being a self-made man. it showed that, you know, by some measures at least there are at least questions at least of whether he violated the law in paying all his taxes. that story came and went, but you're right. i think investigators are now looking into that kind of thing themselves. you heard state investigators say in new york that wanted to look at that and congressional democrats obviously have these kinds of questions on their mind when they say they want to look at these tax returns.
>> thank you so much for starting us off. after the break, joe biden and donald trump go at it on twitter and in press appearances. possible preview of 2020 or too much too soon? another 2020 democratic candidate sharpens his attack on trump but does his reference to nazi germany go too far? stay with us. any other family♪ ♪ the house, kids, they're living the dream ♪ ♪ and here comes the wacky new maid ♪ -maid? uh, i'm not the... -♪ is she an alien, is she a spy? ♪ ♪ she's always here, someone tell us why ♪ -♪ why, oh, why -♪ she's not the maid we wanted ♪ -because i'm not the maid! -♪ but she's the maid we got -again, i'm not the maid. i protect your home and auto. -hey, campbells. who's your new maid? i protect your home and auto. and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals.
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soon. i think -- >> weeks? days, weeks? >> what's the hold-up? >> the hold-up? putting everything together, man. putting everything together. even if i knew for certain that i was going to run for president back in thanksgiving, my intention would be last person to announce and so then i got a shot, and then off to the races. >> off to the races, there's only one person left in america who won't tell you for sure that joe biden is running for president and that's joe biden. as for the rest of us, today was a glimpse at one of the possible general election match-ups, donald trump who's been accused of sexual misconduct by 23 women posted a crudely edited video on twitter mocking joe biden's response to women feeling uncomfortable with hugs and other physical contact. biden responded also on twitter with this, quote, i see that you are on the job and presidential
as always. before appearing in front of a conference of electrical workers, trump responded to biden again after that appearance by tweeting out of thin air, i've employed thousands of electrical workers. they'll be voting for me. that appearance was biden's first since the accusation and today he tackled them with some humor. ♪ >> i just want you to know, i had permission to hug lonny. i didn't want you to have to stand all along but -- by the way he gave me permission to touch him. >> later on when he was asked about those jokes, biden said it wasn't his intent to make light of anyone's discomfort and he hope no one took him that way. during the conversation the reverend al sharpton also host of the "politics nation" here on msnbc plus in washington former democratic congresswoman donna edwards, how did he do? >> i'm great. i listened to vice president
biden today. he certainly sounded like a guy who's going to be a presidential candidate, so i guess we'll have to wait a few weeks, but i also, you know, listened to others and i think it was really important for joe biden in the way that he does to kind of make the transition and get into a mode in front of a very friendly audience. >> rev? >> i think it was very important that he come out publicly, all the other candidates are out -- most of them have been at our convention all week -- >> where they belong. >> where they belong. and i think for him to not be public is, i think, adding fuel to the fire like he's hiding. he's going to have to take this on whether people agree or not and when you have people saying, well, there was no harassment, there's no accusations of an assault, it is something that is discomforting but it is not as
serious as it could be. he makes it look more serious when he appears to be hiding from it, so i think he did the right thing coming out today. >> carol, this is the distinguishing factor of biden's situation right now, none of his accusers have accused him of misconduct, his accusers have accused him of embraces that made them uncomfortable. how do you think he's doing? >> you think him making a joke got mixed reactions. you can see that out there. anyone can see that. i don't think his staff thought that he was going to do that, but that's joe biden and i was at the obama white house for eight years. he was somebody that was going to say and do exactly what he wanted and go off script and that's what he did today. he also said -- you can see him balancing -- trying to be biden and himself and be, you know, appeal to the democratic party and also try to take on trump.
he actually said, i don't apologize for anything i've done and he's saying he's not apologizing. he's like walking this line. i don't know how long that will hold and the other thing about joe biden that we all know is that the more he's out there and he risks going too far with this -- >> is there still a too far if the ultimate opponent is donald trump? what's too far? >> that's the question for the democrat -- he has to get through the primary and the democrats have made this a huge issue for them and that's where his problem will be. >> the primary? >> one group of people who obviously thought the joke was not pitch perfect was his staff and they had him talk to cameras to clean it up. this is going to be a thing you'll see with biden if he runs, over and over again, he is loose in his -- in the way he talks. he does not always -- he's always sometimes a little tone deaf.
he sometimes says things that staff does not want him to say famously when he would meet the press. there would be days of murder boarding and even then, he would go on meet the press and say things they at any time want him to say. he's not a scripted politician. he's constantly ad libbing. that gets you in trouble but makes you seem authentic. you got to keep remembering that the right -- for -- from now until there's a democratic nominee, the venue for all of these democrats is the democratic nomination fight. it's not donald trump's standards, what plays in the general election, what plays with the broader country, it's what plays with the democratic nominee electorate and that is a different field than the field that the nominee will eventually play on when he goes against donald trump. all bets are not off in the nomination. >> i think the real fear that i have and i know senator biden for many years and worked
closely when he was in the white house as vice president, is, yes, he is very much unscripted, yes, he will do whatever comes to mind, but what i most fear is what i saw today is whether he goes for the trump bait. he should not be answering every time trump puts something out there and i think that as much as his staff can't control him, it will be become worse if trump gets into this rhythm with him, that every time i stab at you you'll come back. once trump knows he's coming back, trump will have him so preautop preoccupied and in his head. >> trump couldn't stop talking about joe biden today. kristen welker said, what's offensive about biden's behavior? >> i think it's the other way around. trump understands what a lot of
republicans understand which is that biden is a general election candidate deprives donald trump of a lot of the swing voters in the rust belt that went for trump and i have most of their cell phones in my phone. a lot of the voters in eerie, pennsylvania, in bay city, michigan, in wisconsin n florida who flipped who were two time obama voters who flipped and voted for trump. a lot of voters are very much available to someone like joe biden. >> democrats are looking for a couple of things. they want somebody who is steeped in policy, who can appeal to the base, who can appeal to working families all across the country but also they want somebody who's going to be willing to take a punch and throw a punch when it comes to donald trump. i mean, you could see that at the national action network conference which i think was really important where you've got -- and joe biden would have gone over really well there.
i think he's in the right territory and he doesn't need to clap back on every single thing that trump does but he needs to demonstrate that he's willing to take him on and this was a particularly important moment because, like, who is donald trump to go around teasing anybody about touching anyone with the things that he said? i think this was an important moment for joe biden. >> to underscore donna's point, 23 women credibly accusing donald trump of sexual misconduct. after the break, an important primary. a couple of our guests have mentioned it. it just wrapped up for the 2020 democrats. 12 candidates spoke at the national action network conference and we'll ask the man who hosted those candidates who stood out and why. that's next.
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homophobe, who is a citizenophobe and who is a religious bigot. i wish i did not have to say that, but that is the damn truth and we got to say it. >> bernie sanders not holding back today at the national action network conference in new york. it's become a box all democrats running for president have to tick off. they made their cases to the black voters and the president of the national network just happens to be a friend of the show. i was there last year. the rev al sharpton and our panel is back. it's a phenomenal event and these are some of the most knowledgeable, political junkies i've ever met in my career. so the idea -- going and speaking is probably the easy part. i think it's the retail politics
that they get to -- >> q&a and back and forth because these are activists that work around the country, so they know, they're in the trenches, they know what they're talking about. i think that ironically the right wing asked why are all the candidates coming there, donald trump came twice. he cut the ribbon once and i'm waiting on him to keep that up and release the photos of donald trump came to national action network when he was playing democrat. he could have came this year. the fact is that people want to make sure that this race gap is not marginalized because he has become the most polarizing president that we've seen and the idea of this week was to make sure that the race gap would -- blacks unemployment at a lower rate than they have but they're still double to white. how do you close that gap, how do you close education gap, the health gap, we want that on the table and by having the
presidential candidates address it main streams an issue that a lot of the right wing doesn't want to talk about. >> how is race not mainstream? anyone with a kid that had to watch charlottesville and turn off the television, why isn't race a mainstreamed issue because of who the president is? >> i think because the president tries to get away with unemployment blacks is so low, i'll call a meeting of black leaders at the white house and he has a bunch of people there that no one knows who they are. one of the reasons you call a black leader is you have to have a following and somebody should know you and i think that what we wanted to do is say there is still some real problems of inequality. i think the flare-ups are the blackfaces and the charlottesvilles and other things, but there's some institutional problems and we want you if you're going to be president to tell us how you're going to deal with those problems, how will you close the gap? >> who did the best? >> i thought i was very impressed with several of them.
i thought that beto o'rourke was well received and we had not had any background at all on mayor pete buttigieg -- i'm still practicing his name. >> you and me both. >> he was very good. elizabeth warren excellent and we expected that bernie sanders is certainly and kamala harris and cory booker but i was very, very surprised at how well -- when beto came on it was polite, when he left, he almost got a standing ovation. i think it's because they respected the audience and talked policy and took on the whole question of racism, institutional racism head on. they didn't duck. >> i have a question for you, a very precise question about one of the people you just mentioned, bernie sanders was the runner up in 2016 and there's no rational analysis of what happened in 2016 that doesn't say coming out of that race that the main impediment to
him beating hillary clinton he did not get enough votes of nonwhite voters, so sanders now by some measures is the front-runner in this race. he's certainly in the top tier in terms of fund-raising. he nearly won iowa, he won new hampshire, et cetera, et cetera. has bernie sanders made inroads with nonwhite democratic voters the kind of inroads he will need if he's going to be a democratic nominee and draw, not a majority, but a appreciable piece that have vote in the democratic party? >> i think he's worked on that i must say as one that questioned him two years ago that he has been very much involved in a lot of the issues that they've come up. he stayed in touch with a lot of people around the country and i think he has made some inroads, how much we will have to see, but i think he has worked at it. i think he has not denied it. i think he has taken it head on and has tried to deal with it as have the other candidates. i think with beto and mayor pete
and others understand is that you cannot win without a si sizeable bloc of the black vote. >> why would you want to? you all mentioned beto. here's beto on something -- i want all your thoughts, donna. let's watch. >> the president of the united states is called mexican immigrants rapist and criminals. now we would not be surprised if in the third reich other human beings were described as an infestation or as a cockroach or a pest that you would want to kill but to do that in 2017 or 2018 in the united states of america -- >> straight talk or too far? >> you think that, you know, beto and a number of the aents are really hitting on something when they look historically at donald trump and his rhetoric today and compare it in our history and in the history of the world and so i think it's appropriate.
look, what i saw at the national action network conference and all of the speeches, for the first time we got -- we've gotten to see back-to-back the range of the democratic party and the way that they stack up against each other. i don't think we've had that yet and so rev rend al thank you very much for that. black voters are not a monolith. it's important for every single one of these candidates to contest for a vote that is a core not just to the nomination but also to when the presidency. if you don't fight for black voters today, don't come asking in september 2020 to get them. >> carol, you want to ask you about something that showed up in nbc news "the wall street journal" poll that reminds us that these are not our grandparents election any more. in 2019 among all voters, 68% of
americans. it's a little bit of good news in all the bleakness. >> it's just remarkable how fast that issue has swung. it wasn't that long ago that president obama was figuring it out or he wasn't -- biden got out ahead of him and it was a really big deal. it covered the white house -- i covered the white house at that time. is he for it and is he going to say it? it's a post script. it's an afterthought and it's completely different and it happened really fast. >> it's reflected in the democratic field. i'm reminded of something we all said over and over and over again in the midterms about the mid-term candidates. they look like americans. again, you look at this field, this field gay, young, female, it's so depressing as a former republican to see one side look like america and to see the polls reflect this is where 68% of americans are and the others
got donald trump. >> i agree. it happened so quickly, and i think it shows the impact, the cultural shift and how a lot of those that are on the right have just missed that. >> yeah. >> i think that that is what is going to hurt them a lot politically if the right candidate in the democratic party and candidates that are going to run for the senate don't try themselves to play an all-playbook or out of touch. if they stay right where the electorate is now, they have an advantage because i don't think the right wing understands where the country is moved. >> i think you're right. coming up, will policy whiplash that inflamed his party this week. we'll bring you trump's trip to the southern border.
from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves all your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist. president trump in calexico, california, as we speak is visiting the border with mexico as part of his publicity, salvage my agenda something tour for that big beautiful wall that he still wants to build. his trip comes after a policy roller coaster of a week starting with his threat to close the border and ending up -- well, see for yourself. >> if they don't stop them, we'll close the border and we'll keep it closed for a long time. i'm not playing games. >> there's a very good likelihood that i'm closing the nk and that's okay
with me. >> it certainly isn't a buff. >> if we don't make a deal with congress, the border's going to be closed. 100%. frankly, better but less drastic than closing the is to tariff the cars coming in and i will do it. you know i will do it. i don't play games. we will put tariffs on, if they don't apprehend and ultimately we'll give it a period of time but if in a year from now, drugs continue to pour in, we're going to put tariffs on. >> so the border stays open at least for a year? >> i didn't say that. we would start with the tariffs and see what happens. >> so what are we doing? i missed all that. we're closing it, we're not closing it. at first i said we're going to tear up the cars. oh, it's trump. i got the next clip, we're going to put tariffs. what are we doing at the border? >> nothing. >> this is -- this is his crutch. this is what president trump -- >> >> the border generally, the
fact he was down there. because he got a self-inflicted wound. he got way out there on this. when he feels in political trouble or headlines aren't going his way he pivots to immigration and the border, leans in. he leaned in really heavily and got pushed back by republicans who said this is a bad idea and here are the reasons why. he had to walk it back, his least favorite thing to do -- admit defeat. then go to the border to make a show like he's doing something. that's what this is. >> put the human calamity and the human tragedy aside. i realize those are features, not bugs of his immigration policies. i wrote six stories about never getting another avocado. he talked about closing the border, markets reacted, industry reacted agriculture, allies reacted. when does this become too much? >> well, the fact is 40% of our trade is with mexico.
the president -- he goes to the border as his crutch. but just yesterday, the house democratic leadership announced that they are, in fact, going to bring suit against the president on his emergency declaration. so he's losing over and over and over again when it comes to his crutch. he may as well kick it away. >> i have to say, i think we often describe trump as cruel. there is a sadism to the way he treats people. there's also an element, he's a masochist. this is the biggest promise he made in the 2016 campaign. we are going to build this wall. mexico is going to pay for it. and he repeatedly fails to deliver on it. over and over again. he's throwing banana peels to slip over himself. the first thing he tried to do was repeal obamacare. failed at that. it's not going anywhere. dude, it is not going anywhere.
and yet the two biggest failures, the one republicans wanted him to do, tear down obamacare, the one he was going to do, build the wall, both of those are dead on arrival. you say it's a crutch. yeah, his base likes that but they are giant, colossal, stupendous failures and he seems to enjoy reenacting them every few months. >> the "m" is more masochist is something that lets us know you're back. >> the other part of it is he has convinced himself that these things work for him. i think that he honestly believes that every time he goes and use it is mexican border, every time he promises a wall that it energizes his crowd.
i don't think he understands how bad he's losing. he's like a fighter that keeps getting knocked down and he's now foggy in the head and thinks he's winning. there is no one around him that tells him, you know, you're behind on rounds now. you better do another strategy. if they dare do it he fires them. so everybody is letting him get the crap beat out of them and he's punching himself to death. this is not working, but you can't tell him. >> this is the core of it because he's always defined the political victory in terms of the enthusiasm of the base, not expanding the number of people who support him. ultimately that's just the wrong metric. enthusiasm of the base gets you something, but doesn't get you to 50. it doesn't get you to re-election. >> it shouldn't wax and wane. even if you're unhealthy, your base should remain the same. after the break, who can forget herman cane? he's accused of sexual harassment.
so you might be surprised to hear what donald trump has asked him to do next. that's next. stay with us. that my ex-ex- ex-boyfriend actually went to law school, so i called him. he didn't call me back! if your ex-ex- ex-boyfriend isn't a lawyer, call legalzoom and we'll connect you with an attorney. legalzoom. where life meets legal. and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life.
(woman) (man) what shoroad trip.with it first? (woman) yes. (woman) off-road trip. (couple) [laughter] (couple vo) whoa! (man) how hot is the diablo chili? (waitress) well. you've got to sign a waiver. [laughter] (ranger) you folks need bear repellent? (woman) ah, we're good. (man) yes. (vo) it's a big world. our new forester just made it even bigger.
(woman) so what should we do second? (vo) the 2019 subaru forester. the most adventurous forester ever. i recommended herman cain. he's a very terrific man, a terrific person. he's a friend of mine. i have recommended him highly for the fed. i've told my folks that that's the man and he's doing some pre-checking now. i would imagine he'd be in great shape. >> that's called a vet. here's a reminder who herman cain is. >> do you agree with president obama on libya or not?
>> okay, libya. >> oh, shucky ducky as the man would say. >> when asked me who the president of you-becky-becky-stan-stan is i'll say, i don't know. do you know? >> this man is en route to the fed. >> he still has to get through a senate confirmation. i'm not sure. i will enjoy the senate confirmation. there will be questions like, herman cain, tell us about m-1 and there's going to be an m-1? >> shucky ducky. >> seriously. >> does the guy know the difference between macro and micro economics? does he know the basic things if you need to know if you're going to be on the fed? there's no chance he knows anything.
>> the last thing trump wanted him to do, i think he's a god bug. >> yeah. >> the other thing this points to, the fed is yet another institution trump is challenging and trying to shape. it's an independent body. there's two seats. he's trying to fill them with people who are allies of his. >> who are nincompoops. >> we've seen this movie before, but he's getting pushback from republicans anonymously. >> the word you are looking for isn't shape but shred, destroy. >> let's remember, cain's whole campaign was 9-9-9, the most crazed economic policy. anyone ran with that year. you're going to put him on the fed? >> say the shucky ducky thing again. that was good. >> that's on chuck todd now. my thanks to the panel. i'll see you back here monday for deadline white house at 4:00 p.m.
trump's darkest secret. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. president trump put aside killing obamacare and his threat to shut down the border. he has given up altogether his birtherism theory about president obama being born abroad, but one thing he has never given up on in "s" his obsession to hide his tax returns from it is american public. now democratic congressman rs to force the irs to turn the returns over.
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