tv Kasie DC MSNBC May 19, 2019 4:00pm-6:00pm PDT
expedia. everything you need to go. welcome to "kasie dc." i'm kasie hunt. we're live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. tonight brand new reporting about transactions tied to president trump that deutsch bank flagged as subpoenas. plus democrats pour subpoenas on the white house, but so far little to see for it. will they have to impeach to get answers. new laws on abortion send the nation to political corners once again but the court looks
much different than it did before. as president trump took in cable news coverage this weekend, he watched as new threats came barrelling toward him in real time. first there was joe biden the democratic front runner kicking off his campaign in philadelphia, casting himself as the party's best chance of defeating the president in november. new polling suggests for now that may be true. in pennsylvania where the president will hold a rally of his own tomorrow, shows biden leading by double digits. and then there was justin amash who became the first to call for president trump's treatment. and then deutsch bank staffers flagging suspicious transactions. if this president loves fights as much as he claims to, then this was truly an ideal weekend. i'd like to welcome my panel, reporter for the "new york
times" jeremy peters. former press secretary to mitch mcconnell antonia ferria. thank you all for being here. it has been a busy weekend, if you are the president of the united states, which is reflected on his twitter feed. jeremy, let's start with joe biden, who has really emerged as a stronger front runner than we thought. telling that the president is going to head to pennsylvania this week. if that was ever a move to counter joe biden, i don't know what would be. >> right. >> what's the sort of sense in the white house, the trump campaign about what kind of threat they face from biden. yesterday he was flatout -- or when he have announced he was making this argument, i'm the one who can beat trump. >> and he's one that can come the closest, i think, and that's
what has trump and the white house so nervous about joe biden. the numbers that the trump campaign has are a little closer than the public polling we've seen which has biden blowing trump out. i don't think you can believe any poll that has a huge spread this far from the general election, especially when you don't know who the nominee is. start there. but they are nervous. and they should be. because trump's support with the kind of voters that allowed him to win pennsylvania, these so called obama/voters who voted for obama twice and then trump has declined. it's still strong at about two thirds but it was up near 85, 90% in the election. in an election decided by 77,000 votes, basically a hair, he can't afford to lose any support. >> you were looking a second ago at a poll that shows how the democratic nominees -- biden, 49% to trump's 38%. it gets tighter as you go on from there.
antonia, what do republicans on the hill think about the president's reelection chances and whether biden does pose the threat some people have been saying he might. >> you can't underestimate joe biden, he's -- >> people did. >> fair. >> quite a bit. >> but he was in pennsylvania, and he's originally from pennsylvania. so i think he's got an advantage starting there. he is sort of a hometown hero there. >> yeah. >> also, i would note that, as jeremy said, they're very far out but if you're on the little and looking at senate republicans trying to hold the senate in 2020, these numbers should be concerning as well. but it is a long time away but for the president you're talking about states that were part of his coalition to win, pennsylvania, wisconsin, states like michigan and these numbers should be concerning to him. i would say one of the things that's perplexing to me as a republican is that over a period of years since he's been in the presidency, the president has not done much to go after centrist wing voters.
he better start doing that now. >> anna, the electability, is this biden saying i'm a white guy that can appeal to the rust belt voters in the midwest. >> we're seeing the field trying to punch at that issue. kamala harris, saying joe biden will be a great vice president for me. i think you start to see the democratic field start to attack him, attack the line of thinking he's the guy who can beat the president. justin amash, reminds me of the health care vote when you had one republican when there was a vote. what's your take on how much amash's declaration on this president should be impeached matters? >> he's an outlier but a helpful outlier to democrats who can say there's bipartisan concern about
the president's conduct. he is an enigmatic, quirky member. i mean that with no disrespect -- >> that's a good description. >> i don't think he pulls or brings a lot of people with him. like i said, he is a good talking point for democrats. >> but he's not a squish. that's where republicans have the hard time. you can't say he's a moderate or kind of like a fake republican. he is a hard-line founder of the house freedom caucus who's now out there on a limb saying the president has done impeachable conduct. >> jeremy, you've covered the tea party, what's your take on this? >> as soon as trump brands new this political climate, that's what you are to his hardest core of hard core voters when trump says he's a loser, that's what they're going to see. i don't think they're going to look at his resume and say founding member of the freedom caucus. >> but now republicans have to respond. you saw mitt romney today on the shows, mitch mcconnell was on
the senate floor saying this is over, we want done with it, it keeps it in the news for another news cycle. >> part of me thinks there's trolling going on, he knows this is going to put him out ahead of the democrats -- >> he's out ahead of nancy pelosi. >> and he is that kind of guy, right. he's very provocative. he likes to needle people. and something tells me that's part of what's going on. >> it's sort of a trumpian move. >> i guess so. it seems -- you can't be more trumpy than donald trump. jeremy said you're called a loser -- i'm not calling him a loser, the president has dubbed him a loser and that's what his brand will be from now. but he's had enigmatic views from a traditional republican what does that mean to be a traditional republican. so he's had that sort of more rand paul viewpoints but rand
paul isn't going to go there. >> quite a statement from someone who worked for mitch mcconnell, what is a republican republic -- regular republican. >> it's true. >> let's go to the story in the "new york times" about the deutsche bank flagging these transactions. they've been the only ones willing to lend the president money in so long. >> there's been whispers of this alleged inappropriate pryty going on with deutsche bank for a while now. this could be what's out there with trump's long history with the bank. i think what's most significant is look at it in total. look at the various investigations and inquiries going on from the eastern district to the southern district in new york, looking into husbais charities, his tax his inaugural committee
donations, on capitol hill you have the obstruction investigations and whether he exaggerated his net worth. there are so many lines of inquiry here right now, who knows what could be turned up next. >> what's your take on how important a story like this will be and the threads that can be pulled out of it on capitol hill will be? >> you're going to see the democrats try in all the oversight committees to make this an issue. they're sprinkling in bread crumbs for us. i don't think it matters to his supporters. on a slew of issues that jeremy laid out for us, that hasn't weakened his support in the middle. >> if the trump administration were as transparent as the president claims it is, this would be a very different show. we would be preparing to show you the testimony of former white house counsel don mcghan, seen by many as the president's greatest threats around questions surrounding obstruction of justice.
we would be discussing the testimony of robert mueller and we would be digging into his full report on the russia investigation. we'd also break down the president's tax returns which would have been released before the 2016 elections or after being subpoenaed by congress. instead we are talking about claims of executive privilege. instead we are talking about all the reasons congress can't question those people and get their hands on those documents. meanwhile democrats hoped attorney general bill barr would testify before the house judiciary committee two weeks ago, instead they got a fox news interview this week. >> the president calls it a witch hunt, he calls it a hoax, would you agree with that? >> as i said, if you were the president you would view it as a witch hunt and a hoax. because at the time he was saying he was innocent and that he was being falsely accused. and that's -- if you're falsely accused, you would think that something was a witch hunt. >> do you think this breaks the
norms of what an attorney general is supposed to be doing? >> that's a good question. i ultimately do not think so, because i think he was pretty careful in saying he was speaking for what the president's perspective was. i think if you watch that carefully, he didn't say it was his view, he was saying that is what the president's thinking was. i understand why people might construe that -- >> after that press conference where he used the word collusion, which doesn't appear in the mueller report. >> look, i think right now when it comes to barr, everyone has made their opinion up on him that he is basically from the left he is basically just a defender in chief for the president of the united states. i mean, i think there have been attorneys general under president obama there were some rather contentious moments with his attorneys general. so i don't think think this is that unusual given everything that has happened. i don't think he's really -- i don't find it that unusual. maybe call me crazy but that's
my view. i don't. >> people on the hill, the democrats in particular, disagree. >> they're going to go crazy over this. clearly, the witch hunt, the fact that he is defending the president and is basically his, you know, kind of defender in chief at this point, going on fox news and deciding to do the interview there instead of going to capitol hill, it drives democrats crazy. >> to be fair, though, what they're asking from him is stuff that the justice department believes would be illegal to share with congress. so i understand the democrats may be frustrated, but i do think the department of justice has a legitimate perspective in saying this material should not be -- it's grand jury material it should not be sent over and they believe they would be breaking the law giving it to congress. i think there's a way the democrats could have had him come up there, but i think they went too far and this is what they got. they don't have a vote -- >> they have no recourse, right? >> right. >> that's their problem.
it's just anger. >> to the point the attorney general is on the hill this week joking with nancy pelosi asking whether or not she have had handcuffs for him. a lot more to come on "kasie dc," explaining the coming court fight over a slew of new abortion laws. plus remember when members of the trump administration, like h.r. mcmaster were said to be keeping the president in line, now the president said he's keeping john bolton in check. we'll talk about new bringsmanship with iran. plus joe biden's buildup was folks-y don't believe us. >> i know, folks. >> here's why, folks. >> folks. folks. >> you all think i'm kidding, that's how i'm identified. ng, that's how i'm identified. from this commercial? did any of you hear the "bundle your home and auto" part? -i like that, just not when it comes out of her mouth. -yeah, as a mother, i wouldn't want my kids to see that. -good mom. -to see -- wait. i'm sorry. what? -don't kids see enough violence as it is?
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we end a week of heated debate over abortion rights. >> in georgia. >> louisiana and missouri. >> kentucky. >> mississippi and ohio. >> in alabama. >> the most restrictive abortion laws essentially making abortion a crime. >> before women knew they were pregnant. >> doctors could face 99 years in prison. >> no exception for pregnancies caused by rape or incest. >> the next steps could involve a long legal battle. >> the goal is to challenge roe v. wade. >> and making an issue on the campaign trail. >> what we have seen in the last several months is states getting
more aggressive with abortion laws, in new york and is rachlt virginia's case attempting to loosen restrictions and after that all over the country deeply limiting abortion. in some cases as soon as a heartbeat is detected or in alabama's case earlier. joining me with how this is going to play out in the courts, nina totenberg. thank you for being here. the people in alabama in particular have been transparent about the fact they wrote this law as an attempt to challenge roe versus wade. you have covered this for decades. the supreme court in planned parenthood v. casey has upheld roe versus wade and instead restrictions have come in smaller form. what should we expect in terms of how the circuit courts will handle this and whether this will result in a potential showdown and overturn of roe
versus wade. >> even when i talk to pro-life people, legal experts who are pro life. they agree that the alabama law and the so-called heartbeat laws are unconstitutional under roe, casey, every decision the court has issued since 1973. so it would be -- you'd have to get some whack job panel in a lower court -- these people get confirmed and when they get confirmed, they promise to abide by what the supreme court tells them the law is. so they're supposed to do that. and unless somebody or come group of judges doesn't do that, there'll be no conflict. >> so the lower court would look at this and say the supreme court has ruled on this already and send it back down. >> the supreme court doesn't have to take any of those cases. it can let them stand, leave it for another day, not get
themselves smack dab in the middle of this in an election year. but there is at least one case there from louisiana that they have to resolve one way or the other. >> which is that? >> that's a case involving a law that louisiana passed that's nearly identical to the law the supreme court struck down in texas just three years ago. and chief justice roberts joined the four liberals in actually blocking that from going into effect. >> let's remind everybody what the content was. that had to do with rules how abortion clinics were structured or built that functionally dramatically limited abortion, correct? >> and specifically whether a doctor had to be accredited at a local hospital. >> have admitting privileges. >> right. have admitting privileges at a local hospital in order to be able to perform abortions in the state. the district court found that there were only, i think, that
one doctor would be -- would be able to have admitting privileges. >> right. >> the court of appeals said we don't think that's right. and therefore, we're going to uphold this law. and the court of appeals also refused to stay it. refused to block it temporarily. so it's now sitting on the supreme court's doorstep, where chief justice roberts cast the deciding vote to, in fact, order a stay so that the status quo remains in place, and i think there are four abortion doctors now who do abortions in louisiana. they maintain all but one of them would not be able to get admitting privileges. >> the upshot here, the bigger question of roe unlikely to be taken on. but i want to talk about the politics of this. some republican leaders have sought to separate themselves from some of these new state laws.
>> are you comfortable with no exception? >> listen, personally i would have the exceptions. that's my personal belief. but we are a party that is a broad tent. we have -- if you agree with us 80% of the time, i want you to be a republican. >> alabama just passed possibly the most restrictive abortion law in the country. do you think that law goes too far? >> it goes further than i believe, yes. i defend my pro-life position for my whole political career, but i also believed in rape, incest and life of the mother. >> many of these laws do not include exceptions for rape, incest or in some cases the life of
the mother. then there are how the arguments are playing out among republicans at the state level. nancy mace is a conservative anti-abortion state representative in south carolina. she was the first woman to graduate from the citadel military academy.
here is a speech she gave when a law excluded rape and ip zest. >> i'm beginning to think you all think all women who say they've been raped, that's not the case. from some of us who've been raped, it can take 25 years to get up the courage and talk about being a victim of rape. my mother and my best friend in high school are the only two people that knew until october of 2018. and i am standing here listening to some of these voices today talk about women who are just going to go to the
doctor and lie about being raped to get an abortion. the first thing that happens when a woman comes out in public and says she's been raped, what is the first thing out of
someone's mouth? is that it didn't happen. this is why women do not come forward. they are afraid, they're humiliated, they're embarrassed. when i was molested at the age of 14 inside a pool, i thought it was my fault because i wore a two piece bathing suit that was neon colored. that's the way a child thinks. i thought it was my fault. we culture our women and our girls when they grow up in our families that sometimes, somehow, it's your fault because of what you wore or how you dressed or maybe you're at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person. it took me 25 years to say to myself, this is not -- this was not my fault. and it may not get reported until they go to a physician, go to the doctor because this child, who's 10 or 11, 12 is
pregnant. and by that time there's probably a heartbeat. and some cases, if you're 16 you may not know there's a plan b. you may not know what your options are. if you grew up in a rural area or metropolitan area and didn't have the education that maybe others did from better areas of the state, you may not know what your options are. you can go to my social media wall from october 2018 or from a few weeks ago when i was in judiciary committee talking about this issue and see the comments of people calling women who were raped murderers. and see the comments about a woman who's raped murdering a child for the crime of the father. a rapist is not a father. and while i am pro-life, and i would hope and pray that any
woman or teenager who is raped or assaulted or is the victim of incest that they would choose life, i am not gonna take that away from anybody else. you have no idea what a woman or a child goes through when they are a victim of incest or when they've been raped. >> just a really remarkable moment on the floor of the south carolina state house. nancy mace says that she was assaulted at 14 and again at 16. and she didn't reveal it until last year. and as a result of that speech, the state house did add exemptions for rape and incest into their bill. and the governor said he would sign it, although it's not expected to pass this year. as a result these flyers from a fellow lawmaker which described rape as a, quote, misdeed of the
parent, were distributed on the desk of fellow legislators, including representative mace. this is a fraught topic -- >> yes. >> -- but this is -- these bills in some of these states go so far that i think we have demonstrated that even though lawmakers at the state and national level who, you know, think that abortion should not be allowed do not agree with as far as they have gone. >> well, there's a lot to be said -- first of all i want to commend her. that is a strong woman. and had the tenacity to do and go and stand up against a bunch of men in that south carolina legislature, that takes a lot of moxey, so good for her. it is the traditional policy of the republican party to have those exceptions. i grew up in suburban boston, i am a republican, and i know my party is more pro-life than it is pro-choice. i think some of the men need to understand what it is they're doing and the message they're
sending to women. it's unacceptable, in my view, if you're saying that a woman is raped that it's not okay. and i think those legislatures down in alabama need to go out and talk to some more women to understand what some of this means to them and how completely offensive it is. the president does not support this. kevin mccarthy does not support this. and i think that most people who are not in states like alabama are going to have a problem with it for a reason. having said that, there is also, on the other side, in new york i know a lot of pro-life people who are offended at the third trimester bill as well. what i find to be dishartening about the abortion debate while politically it is, you have two sides and they go to both sides. i think more people in america are in sort of a middle camp on this question. but that's not how the sort of the groups function. and so this can be very divisive
and nasty, and probably won't be in the court for a while. >> that's right. but the polling data shows support for abortion rights has gone up, to my surprise. but it has. and what went viral this week was that picture of all the state legislatures in alabama who voted for this law banning virtually all abortions. with no exceptions for rape or incest. and it's all white men. and it just went viral. and that can't be good for the republican party. >> it is not, nina. it's not good for the republican party. no question about it. >> jeremy, you have covered this closely, the reignition of the culture wars when women are already reengaged, what's going to be the impact? >> i think what's going on with the bills in states like alabama is driving moderates away from the republican party. clear polling for decades that
people support abortion rights in the first trimester, they don't want to see roe v. wade overturned either. so the fact you have the right wing, far right social conservatives, galvanizing behind the issues is a few things. one it's pent up aggression of anti-abortion activists that has been building for four decades. also i think they see the possibility, although a misguided one, how the supreme court works -- >> which nina explained. >> exactly. that this is going to trigger a fight over roe v. wade, which is not how the supreme court would chip away at roe v. wade, which it has been doing in the future. i know the president is worried about this, the republican party leadership is worried about this, but for a while the republicans had the democrats on the defensive about these late
term abortion bills. now that's completely flipped because the truth is the vast majority of americans don't want to see roe v. wade overturned. nina, thank you for joining us tonight. when we return i'm joined by two iraq war veterans who have deep concerns about what they see playing out in the middle east right now and the drum beat of war with iran. an ♪ limu emu & doug mmm, exactly! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike, so... limu gets a little confused when he sees another bird that looks exactly like him. ya... he'll figure it out. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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our country is full. we're full. our system is full. our country is full. can't come in. our country is full. what can you do? we can't handle anymore. our country is full. can't come in, i'm sorry. >> that was president trump's message to undocumented immigrants last month ahead of his announcement of a plan this week to overhaul the immigration system based on merit. speaker of the house nancy pelosi has since called that plan dead on arrival. meanwhile, nbc news reports that there were 1,700 more migrant children separated from their parents, in addition to the 2,800 separated under the zero tolerance policy. joining me is anthony brown of maryland and reuben geigo from arizona. i want to start with you because the humanitarian crisis at the
border extends to your state and we have had quite a list of headlines around immigration and this administration in the course of the past week, including plans to move the immigrants around the country and our nbc news reporting that even more children were separated. what should the congress be doing right now to help these children? >> well, what the congress should be doing is obviously trying to fund the humanitarian aspects of the border crisis. that's making sure we have the beds, we have also the judges to help adjudicate whether these people have legitimate claims and try to reunite some of these people coming up with the things they have here. and if we could do that, that would stem a lot of the problems you're seeing right now. the problem you have is this administration has purposefully created an environment that makes it look chaotic instead of doing proper border management.
>> congressman brown, there was also reporting this week that the now acting head of the department of homeland security had to push back against stephen miller and basically fight off an attack from him trying to move around personnel at the department, essentially saying to the president i need to be the one to run this agency. how dysfunctional is that? how big of a problem is that, and is there anything congress can do? >> the agency is dysfunctional. and certainly it's displayed with the way the children were separated and we can't even keep track. they're unable to keep track where these children are. some are in the hands of department of health and human services, some the department of homeland security and some with state agencies. so while they quickly went to separate children with their families, they're incapable of being able to reunite them. keep in mind the custom and border protection agency, they're short 3,000 personnel.
so they're down staff, they've got incompetent leadership, and as a result they're talking years before we can reunite the children separated under the zero tolerance policy. >> i'll put this to both of you, because you both served in uniform, and there was also a report this week that people who are members of the united states armed services are being denied u.s. citizenship at a higher rate than the general population. should this be the case? >> it shouldn't be the case. as a matter of fact, many members and i served with a lot of green card holders that were -- went to iraq with me. and, you know, they should be getting special treatment. it's been a bipartisan approach for many years if you serve in the military and got out with an honorable discharge you should become a citizen as fast as possible. now we try to make sure they
become citizens while they're still in the military. this shows you what's happening with the administration. they're so eager to show they're tough on immigration they're hurting a lot of good americans that just want to become citizens. >> congressman brown? >> there are cases where you have service members in the process of becoming citizens and their non-citizen spouses have been threatened with or actually deported. imagine the impact on the morale of that family and the ability of that service member to do their job, which is a difficult and dangerous job. so we've done a lot in a bipartisan way to expedite, pro mote and courage, military members to become citizens, but this administration is not following through on any of that. >> let's switch gears and talk about iran. both of you serve on the armed services committee, and were part of some initial classified briefings over the course of the past week. we're expecting the full house
to get briefings this week. but based on what you've seen and what you know, do you feel as though what is starting to feel like an increased drum beat towards a war with iran is justified based on what you've learned? >> absolutely not. as a matter of fact, what i learned only made me more concerned that this administration is trying to create a situation that will get us into war. there's nothing in terms of our security or anything that i saw that's a threat to the security of the united states and even our interests in the region. while there may be some security threats to them, it's nothing that would require us to move so many assets into that area and threaten an open war with a country that can defend itself fairly well. which could cost our country potentially tens of thousands men and women needneedsly.
>> we've heard some comparisons to the drum beat to the war in iraq. >> we all recall there was intelligence data available that the bush administration had. they send collin powell to the u.n. about weapons of mass destruction to convince americans and our allies to invade iraq, and it turned out that intelligence was nonexistent. so we have to question that intelligence. and to date i have not seen intelligence that would justify what we're seeing in the middle east. and the president's tweet about ending iran. the president has no authorization right now, short of self-defense, we'll never deny our war fighters the opportunity to defend themselves but to make or attack iran. there's no authorization from congress to do that. >> you would demand one? >> absolutely. >> how much of this is john
bolton's doing? we've heard the president essentially, you know, pushing back on his own national security advisor in this case, but as congressman brown notes, a little bit of an escalation from the president today in terms of rhetoric. >> look, to be honest, it's very scary that you have john bolton inside the white house trying to influence foreign policy. he is a long term neo con. he's had an obsession about iran that goes back decades. he's part of the same trifecta of dick cheney and a couple other people that have been trying to push us to war with iran. the scary part is the president is not smart enough to understand he's going to be manipulated. i think he is not thoroughly -- you know, has not been thoroughly studied when it comes to foreign policy and military policy, and if they sell him a plan that somehow we're going to be able to attack iran, have a
quick hit and get out, he may believe it and we may find ourself in a long protracted war because this president is not essentially smart enough to be president. thank you both very much for coming on tonight. i'll see you on the hill this week. still to come, the climate is getting more toxic on the campaign trail as democrats try to make celebration on an important topic this cycle, the environment. we'll talk about that when we come back. ronment. we'll talk about that when we come back. nothing says summer like a beach trip, so let's promote our summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this:
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much different way than some of his fellow candidates. the comment came after a week in which "reuters" characterized biden's plan as a middle ground approach. getting this swipe from alexandria ocasio-cortez. >> i will be damned if the same politicians to refused to act then, comes back to say we need a middle approach to save our lives. that's too much for me. >> bernie sanders echoed that sentiment on twitter writing there is no middle ground when it comes to climate policy. >> i think this is so interesting because a lot of what alexandria ocasio-cortez, yes, her policies are, you know, aggressive in focussing on climate change, but she's also
extraordinarily critical of the approach the politicians have taken in the past. and hitting back against joe biden, is this going to be a problem for biden in the democratic primary? the way he's framing this. or is it my climate plan is beat donald trump, good enough. >> it depends on who shows up to vote. if the young liberals, progressives who came out in 2018, who are the aoc generation of -- not democrats but progressives if you will, because they don't consider themselves to be democrats. if those people turn out joe biden could be in real trouble but there's a question mark over that right now. we don't know if they're going to turn out. and the more centrist approach is more in line with the constituency that votes not just on climate but across the board. >> that's been playing itself out in joe biden as front runner in polling. what's your take on this? >> it's interesting.
you've seen the affect of bernie sanders before aoc on a slew of issues but particularly on climate change and so many are running for the aoc endorsement. you've seen it time and again on a lot of these issues. he refuses to go there. i think there's that tension that's going to be there the entire primary and how it plays out we don't know. >> your former boss, mitch mcconnell, was asked whether or not he believed that climate change is caused by man, and he said, yes, of course it is, which is not always the position of many people in the republican party. >> so i think that there are sort of the hard right who think it's just easy to say no and go after democrats, and there's a lot to be said for doing that because i think the green new deal provides republicans a tremendous opportunity to say look what this is going to do to hurt you and your family. having said that, as you go -- if you look up the
socio-economic ladder this is something that matters to people so it's smart and right for republicans to think about this and talk about it. senator alexander is departing the senate but issues of environment and how to tackle them. now those are not the voices that you typically hear because the shouters get heard more, but there is a wing or a part of the party that does want to sort of take a reasonable and responsible approach to climate, but you don't hear them a lot. >> and anna, the urgency around this issue is becoming easier and easier to see, which means we are closer and closer and closer to not being able to fix the problem. but when farmers in iowa are dealing with floods they haven't seen in hundreds of years kind of across the board, i think it's becoming clear to a lot of people across political constituencies that this is a problem. >> i'm from north dakota. my father is farmer, and he says if you don't believe climate change exists, in 40 years of farming, the climate has changed, right?
the crops you grow, when you plant has changed. i think when you think about that as an issue, it really hits home with people in terms of their life hood. it's not kind of washington speech and talking about things. it actually has an impact on people's bottom line. >> i guess we're going to find out if we do anything about it or if it is too little about it. antonio ferreira, jeremy peters, anna palmer, thank you for being here tonight. the incredible amount of money the top trump administration officials are spending on air travel. spending on air travel feel the clarity of non-drowsy claritin
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if you count getting rid of his own administration officials as draining the swamp, then perhaps the president is keeping his promise after all. this week we learned more about former epa chief scott pruitt's excessive spending habits during his short tenure in the administration. the office of the inspector general found he and his staff spent nearly $124,000 on unnecessary first and business class air travel in just ten months on the job. and of course pruitt isn't the only former cabinet secretary to face allegations of that kind. >> what i want to say to the
speaker, don't you fly over our country in your luxury jet and lecture us about what it means to be an american. don't you tell us about america. >> hmm. so congressman tom price blasted nancy pelosi for taking charter flights. but as health and human services secretary, he had no problem taking them. an internal watchdog report found that price spent $341,000 of taxpayer money on charter, military, and commercial flights. and who could forget former interior secretary ryan zinke. zinke redesigned last year around allegations of misconduct. a $12,000 charter flight that, quote, could have been avoided. when we continue tonight, house democrats campaigned on reining in the president, but so far they don't exactly have a hall of fame batting average on key documents and testimony. congressman harley rouda of the
oversight committee joins me live. plus a record number of women are running for president. so why are them being discussed as potential running mates instead of potential nominees? and of course the kasie dvr. our team of producers watches the sunday shows so you don't have to. we're back right after this. rih your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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>> what they did in alabama is unbelievable. >> do you support the alabama law? >> i don't support the alabama law. >> this is nothing short of an all-out assault. >> this is dangerous. >> it's not about life. it's not about birth. it's about control. >> this is a violation of civil rights. >> what we have is the ability to debate these. >> it was designed to get to the supreme court. >> i don't think the majority of americans are where the republicans are on this issue. >> they're worried about what this does to their support with women. >> it's clear the president, if he were the governor of alabama, wouldn't have signed that bill. >> trump has start adwar on america's women. and if it's a fight he wants to have, it's a fight he's going have and he is going to lose. >> now said president trump's conduct now reaches the threshold for impeachment. >> i respect what justin amash is doing. he showed more courage than any other republican. >> i think it's a courageous statement. >> i think it's a watershed moment. >> pelosi has previously said the standard for impeachment requires a bipartisan level of support. >> the fact that amash is doing this, that doesn't make it
bipartisan. >> i don't think impeachment is the right way to go. >> it's very hard to obstruct justice when there was no underlying crime to obstruct. >> having obstructed justice, is now obstructing congress. >> welcome back to "kasie dc." democrats ran in the midterms with the straight forward message. elect us to congress and we will hold this president accountable. now at least 14 democratic-led house committees are investigating different aspects of donald trump or his presidency. the nbc news hill team reports that there are at least 50 different investigations, and at least 15 congressional subpoenas. and yet so far democrats have little to show for it, with multiple offices and agencies of the trump administration saying flat-out no. >> when they are saying unless you have a legislative purpose, you cannot ask any questions. you cannot investigate unless you have a legislative purpose. but one of the purposes of -- that the constitution spells out
for investigation is impeachment. and so you can say and the courts would respect if you said we need this information to carry out our oversight responsibilities. and among them, as impeachment, it doesn't mean you're going on an impeachment path. but it means if you had the information, you might. >> and is that an argument you're prepared to make before the courts, to say to the courts we may impeach, therefore this is what we need? >> well, no, we hope we don't have to do that. we hope that they would respect their oath of office and respect the separation of powers. just to say that what that letter came from the white house is a joke. beneath the dignity of the presidency of the united states. in defiance of our constitution. shame on them. >> the speaker there saying essentially we don't have to hold impeachment hearings to letly get information to help us decide whether or not to impeach. so democrats may ultimately have a political decision to make
depending on whether or not and how these investigations end up in the courts. how far to press into impeachment to get the information that they want. republicans have long noted that if you want the information, impeachment is congress' only real judicial recourse. >> they want it to look like impeachment hearings, but they're not willing to bring the impeachme impeachment. he would have access to all kinds of documents regardless of what the attorney general's accommodations have already made for him. >> with that i would like to welcome in my panel this hour. "new york times" political reporter ken vogel, "washington post" senior correspondent paul cain, democratic congressman from california and a member of the house oversight committee paul rueda, and laura baron lopez. thank you all for being here tonight. it's great to be here. congressman, let me start you. on this question you have started to hear some of your colleagues use the phrase "impeachment proceedings" as they talk about what to do next to fight with the
administration. the suggestion being that maybe they do have to open those up to start to actually be able to demand some of what you all have been seeking. do you think that's the right course? and how loud is that conversation in your caucus? >> i think one step has to take place first, and that is what we are trying to do with all these committees is the appropriate investigation under article one of the constitution, of which the president and the white house and many others are doing everything they can to prevent us from doing that by defying subpoenas, defying the requests for information. so if it was my choice, i'd draw a line in the sand. either honor the subpoenas and the request for documentation by this date, or we will move towards impeachment proceedings. >> all right. and you think there are more and more people who think like you in your caucus? >> i do. because we're just being stymied by the president and his supporters. none of us came to washington to impeach trump. well came here to do our job, to fight climate change, bring down drug prices and all the other major issues affecting families.
but we can't have a president and his administration go rogue by disregarding the obligations of congress and the subpoenas that we're issuing. >> certainly an interesting trend. paul, what are you picking up in your reporting on the hill on this? >> pelosi talked about this, she talked about it thursday, about the step-by-step process. it sounds kind of boring to those of white house are just sort of want to see oh, my gosh, are we going to get to impeachment. >> yes or no. >> if you talk to legal experts who are house general counsel in the past, they say that those interest building blocks from which you can go to win in federal court so that you have to hold them in contempt in some way, shape or form so that when you get to the court, you are saying essentially, you're our last recourse. we have tried every step. we've asked nicely, we subpoenaed, we held them in contempt, we threatened to throw them in the nonexistent prison in the capitol. >> i was really hoping that
prison would exist. it would be such a fascinating story. our reporting says it's not there. >> it's not there. there are places that look and feel like a prison sometimes in the basement of the capitol. >> kind of like the old veteran stadium. >> indeed. essentially the argument is no mistakes. >> right. democrats are being very methodical, as paul mentioned in trying to lay out this case before actually starting the impeachment proceedings. why they want to hear from mueller, because they want to have this play out in the public. and actually back up something congressman rueda said in my conversations with a number of house democrats. i've been starting to hear from them, ones you wouldn't necessarily expect to move towards impeachment. they're starting to warm to the idea because they feel as though they're being torn and they feel as though they have a horrible obligation to carry this out because if they don't, then what signal does that send for future presidents? >> what's next. ken vogel, how does this, you
know, from the perspective of the trump administration, they have essentially said no to everything, right? the president said no way, no how. we're not doing any of it. does that put them at any risk if this does get to the courts? >> i don't think so. this is a political play by the trump team. they think that it rebounds to their benefit with the trump base to say the democrats just won't quit. look, mueller exonerated, i put that in air quotes intentionally, the president on collusion and obstruction, and yet the democrats persist. i think it's a tricky fight for nancy pelosi, and i think you see that where she is setting these -- you talk about the legal steps. certainly there are legal steps to bring the case. but politically she is setting these somewhat arbitrary sort of hurdles that it has to be bipartisan. well, now we have a situation. we could check that box. but then a number of other ones that sort of seem like she doesn't really want to. >> right. that's definitely been the case. congressman, what is your case
on what justin amash did? does that make potential impeachment inquiry bipartisan or is one not enough? >> well, it's about time a republican stepped to the table. i wish every republican and democrat if they have not read the mueller report, read it. it lays out numerous action to be taken by congress and obstruction of justice. it specifically says that mueller did not take prosecutorial action because they don't have the right to do that. but they laid it out for congress to begin taking action. and i applaud my member across the aisle for taking the appropriate step for washed. >> democrats applauding justin amash, who would have thunk it. paul, you have some reporting on this, i understand. >> justin amash is -- he has been an outlier is the best way to describe it. kevin mccarthy, who is now the house minority leader, has clashed with him for eight years since he first got here. so i don't know whether you're
going to consider that a bipartisan move, but he has been a supporter of ron paul and rand paul. >> he has been a pain in the rear frankly. >> he got kicked off the budget committee in 2012 because he was causing then budget committee chairman paul ryan so many headaches. >> in some ways it's the fullest embodiment of what the tea party said it was about. he came in on the tea party wave. he embodied the tea party movement, this idea that constitution is preeminent and they're going follow the law where it led, and that brought them into conflict with the obama administration. and now you have someone taking that to the fullest extent and coming into conflict with the trump administration. >> that's like the purest version of what the tea party was. the other piece of it was the trump base, functionally, right? they've been coopted be i the president. >> this will be interesting to
see what happens with justin amash, if he gets a primary. it's possible. we've seen the president's supporters bristle when there are republicans who run afoul of them and take steps to undermine their political support, including up to potential primary challenge. >> i think the big thing is does he actually run again for reelection and fight a trump-backed primary challenger or does he retire like other republican critic, bob corker and jeff lake. >> but for now he is doing the right thing, which is good. as a former republican, i resist wanting to shout out impeachment, which you know the republics would be doing if this was a democratic president. and the reason i'm saying he is doing the right thing is because he recognizes this should not be as political as it is. you've either done things that deserve investigation or you don't. and clearly the case is here for investigations to take place. >> fair enough. all right. the friday deadline for treasury secretary steve mnuchin to con
ply with house democrats' request for president trump's taxes has come and gone, leaving democrats once again with little to show for a subpoena and giving mnuchin's comments earlier this week, it sure doesn't come as a surprise. >> how do you plan to respond to chairman's -- >> we haven't had an official response yet. i think we have a few more days. we will comply with the typing of it. and i think you can pretty much how we're going to, but i haven't made a decision there. >> is a difference in interpretation between congress and us and the department of justice around this law. this is why there are three branches of government. so if there is a difference of opinion, this will go to the third branch of government to be resolved. >> how ways and means chairman richard neal, who issued those subpoenas suggested, quote, the third branch of government is exactly where this is heading. >> chairman neal, i wanted to see if i could ask you about the deadline for the tax returns today. are you planning to take any action against mnuchin? >> you have until 5:00,
obviously. that was the deadline. but i anticipate that they won't meet that deadline and the result will be that we will likely proceed to court as quickly as next week. >> so this really hasn't moved from where we were a week ago friday when you put out your notice. >> i've noticed that. i don't see right now as an option. i think the better openings for us is to proceed with the court case. >> congressman rouda, is this the correct way to proceed? what else can democrats do to try to force the administration to comply? >> this goes become to my opening comments and your question. as long as the white house and the cabinet continue to defy congress' right to get information and to have their subpoenas honored, they're leaving no other choice except to start impeachment proceedings. maybe that's the end game here that the president wants the play. the american public deserve justice. they deserve to know what the details are behind the mueller report, have mueller come in and talk about it, and understand that there are clear signs of
obstruction of justice. and as a congress, we need to do our job. >> laura, what's the difference between the mueller-related judiciary subpoenas where we would see an impeachment proceeding start and all these other investigations. trump tax, security clearances and a slew of other things. >> right. these are separate, if you will, investigations by the house democrats to try to figure out what other potential wrongdoings that trump or his administration has done, whether it's emoluments violations or things of that nature. so neal i think has been from the beginning been very strategic in trying to, again, lay down these markers. that's why he sent multiple letters. it was to show eventually when it does reach the courts because that's where democrats expect it to head and they have from the beginning. this is what we did. we took every step possible to get these attacks documents before we came to you. and the law that. >> also made the requests very
narrow. so they feel as though the law is very much on their side which says the treasury secretary shall, not should, it's not a suggestion, shall turn these over. >> that's a good point. there are a lot of very clear things that this administration is essentially treating as optional when they're not. congressman, there is also a report in "the new york times" tonight about deutsche bank. the "new york times" is reporting there were suspicious transacts in accounts held by the president and his son-in-law jared kushner that employees of the bank advised should be sent essentially to the governing authorities in the u.s. looking at moneylaundering. they weren't ultimately flagged. what does this tell you? what's your response to the fact that this happened? and how does it fit in with the investigations you're doing? >> i think if you look at the mueller report, and you see all the redactions because of ongoing investigations, it's clear that some of that pertains to this issue, and many other issues that need our attention. and i encourage people to, if you can't read the whole report,
go to page 168 of the second volume where it's very clear that the president has not been exonerated, and these additional issues that are coming up are just going to further the credibility that we have a very swampy president whose heading a large swamp. and he needs to be held accountable. >> ken, you've covered money and politics for a listening, long time. this reporting out of your newspaper. how significant do you think it is that something like this would have happened inside a bank like deutsche bank, and how should we think about it in the context of everything that is playing out? >> i think it's pretty significant. deutsche bank were among the few lenders who were willing to extend trump credit. >> and it wasn't even their normal commercial side. it was their private lending. >> exactly. there were questions about how he was able to continue to avail himselves of these lines of credit from deutsche bank. and now we have evidence that someone in deutsche bank raised red flags about this they hey,
hey, this does not look right. ultimately the red flags were ignored, but it's quite telling that trump's go-to lender, someone in there was raising sort of concerns about this. >> paul, quickly. >> and he can't cite executive privilege to block this. >> right. >> this is before he was president. so congress has an ability to go into deutsche bank and some of these former employees who are talking and really start exploring what went on. >> that's where these whistle-blowers we've heard the committee chairman focus on are so important. congressman harley rouda, thank you so much for coming in tonight. it's great to you as part of the show. >> thank you. >> just ahead, when a reference check plays out in the public sphere. person after person told the president don't hire michael flynn. but first, the president's immigration proposal lands with a thud in congress as nbc newly reports that nearly 1700 more children may have been separated from their parents.
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as the trump administration grapples with how to handle the influx of migrant families at the southern border, local officials are pushing back. here is or was the plan. the department of homeland security proposed flying migrants, who had recently crossed the border, to other states. and in a conference call on friday, a customs and border patrol official said that the agency wanted to send new migrants to northern and coastal
border areas for processing. but today the acting dhs secretary put an end to that plan. >> to be clear, is florida still being considered? >> no. we're using the southwest border sectors for additional capacity. >> and it will not be in the future? >> no, i don't believe so. >> it all comes as nbc's julia ainsley reports the trump administration has identified at least 1700 migrant children it may have separated from their parents. that is in addition to those separated under the zero tolerance policy. joining the conversation is nbc news justice and national security reporter julia ainsley, and axios political reporter alexei mccammon. thank you both for being here. how it is that the u.s. government lost an additional 17 children and we've only found out about it now? >> that's a very good question. this all started before the zero tolerance policy went into effect. so there are court orders that demanded that the government identify and reunite children only pertained to those children
because we thought those were the ones separated. it turns out there was a pilot program that began the summer before in 2017. >> so they were testing it out? >> they were testing it out secretlies starting in el paso. so right now they've identified 1700 that could have potentially been separated. they're going to do further checking, but they regular flagged these as potential separations. they have gone through 4,000 out of 50,000 separations. so there could be more to come. >> so you're saying that they reviewed -- there is 50,000 overall potential separations. they reviewed 4,000 of thome. >> >> can you take the next ratio for the next 50,000? the first pool was those most likely separated. i know we're getting into math here. the main point is there could be more to come. and what has been shocking watching this whole thing play out in court is the government has been very resistant to even identify these children. they said it was too onerous. so it took court deadlines to get them to this point to
identify let alone reunite them with their parents. >>' lexy mccammccammon, how doe something like this happen? we've been reporting the drama around dhs and stephen miller and turf wars and fights. there is a lot of detail in there. but the macro picture is that this is a massive, massive failure of our government. >> right. >> organizations. >> right. well, and julia certainly has more sound reporting on all the inner workings than i do. but the one thing i would say when we're looking at the big picture of the trump administration and how this could happen, one, nothing brings out trump's most radical self like immigration, and number two, the president has fixated on fixing immigration by way of building a border wall, not figuring out how to deal with the influx of migrants coming in in a human way or trying to allocate more money for more resources for the folks coming across the border. he just wants a border wall and hasn't thought more about how to actually solve the crisis than that. and so when the folks around him
are in acting positions, whether at the dhs or i.c.e., or they're trying to figure out how to appease the president and his desire for a border wall while also trying to solve this crisis, i think it's incredibly difficult for the administration under someone like president trump to really understand the nuances of this problem. >> and laura, the administration's plan that was unveiled this week quote/unquote dead on arrival in congress deals somewhat with asylum seekers but otherwise focuses on legal immigrants and doesn't address some of these problems. >> it doesn't address daca recipients at all. and meanwhile, a federal appeals court just ruled against the trump administration decision to rescind protections for the dreamers. so there is all these things at play. also on top of julia's reporting last week, we found out that a fourth child died in custody, u.s. custody. so as this is playing out, the administration is pretty much making a political play with their immigration proposal, even
senator lindsey graham, a republican of south carolina admitted as much, saying no one expects this to go anywhere. even jared kushner's response when he tried to explain the proposal to gop senators didn't go well. there were no fact sheets. so it appears as though it's a bit of a slapped together approximately just meant to try to win over more white suburban voters that republicans lost in 2018. >> what is, paul, in your view, what's the strategy behind what the trump administration was doing with this plan on the hill? >> on the hill, they're looking for -- >> i think that sigh. >> they wanted to say like they have some sort of plan, that there is some offering beyond just a paliwwall. no, we have a plan. the senators were asking jared kushner questions that were pretty basic, and he either did not have an answer for them or at various times other white house officials stepped in.
>> stephen miller. >> stephen miller. on the separated children issue, this is the one thing that republicans just -- this is the issue on immigration where they break from trump entirely, because a year ago, when our various media outlets had the images of crying children in those shelters separated from their parents, everybody from mitch mcconnell -- >> it's indefensible. >> yeah. so they hate this issue. they want it resolved. both as humans and as politicians who have to run. >> yeah. julia, what's the -- do we have a timeline? have we reunited to reuniting these kids? what's to happen to them? >> at this point nay have to be identified and they'll probably come up with a timeline later. but right now the judge has not ordered that. in a lot of cases what makes this incredibly difficult is the parents have already been deported. so you have to try to track down a family member, a parent in a remote area of a country where we don't have access to the legal records, and sometimes
it's more difficult to work with the government. but just on the point of the scattershot strategy, i think we also saw that this week with the airplane issue. if we can jump into that. >> yes, yes. >> the idea that on friday we had sound reporting, a conference call that says they are exploring this plan to take immigrants at the border and rather than process them and release them at the border, process them in northern border or coastal towns and release them. they now went back on that, and they will only keep them at the southwest border because they decided they don't have enough processing room, but only at the cost of having officials in florida up in arms, people in these small towns saying what do you mean we're going to be bringing people in without the federal government assistance to shelter them, to feed them, to figure out how they're going to get to court, just released. we've seen that whiplash already. and i think it's just a product of trying to have something on the board besides the wall that they can hang their hat on that is actually going to address this issue. and so far they're coming up
short. >> all right. still to come, things get more complicated for michael flynn. and before we go to break, as the drumbeat of war with iran grows louder, it's worth pointing out we are coming up on one year without an on camera pentagon briefing. that is unless you count one with kiss frontman gene simmons this week. hmm. "kasie dc" back after this. hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice.
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a newly unsealed court filing from robert mueller's office has revealed that former national security adviser michael flynn told investigators that people linked to the trump administration in congress reached out to him in an effort to influence his cooperation with the russia probe. the revelations sparked a tweet from the president in which he complained about not being warned about the investigation into flynn's conduct. of course the president and his advisers were warned about flynn on multiple occasions. two days after the election, president obama warned trump against hiring flynn. the following week, congressman elijah cummings sent a concerned letter to mike pence, who was leading the transition. in january of 2017, flynn
himself told don mcgahn he was being investigated by the fbi. and later that month, former acting attorney general sally yates told mcgahn that flynn was at risk of being blackmailed by the russians. >> we began our meeting telling him that there had been press accounts of statements from the vice president and others that related conduct that mr. flynn had been involved in that we knew not to be the truth. not only did we believe that the russians knew this, but that they likely had proof of this information. and that created a compromise situation, a situation where the national security adviser essentially could be blackmailed by the russians. >> okay. so those were all of the warnings the president got about michael flynn. oh, sorry, actually, here's another one. >> i didn't think that he was someone who would bring benefit to the president or to the administration. and i made that very clear to
candidate trump and i made it very clear to president-elect trump. if i were president-elect of the united states, i wouldn't let general flynn in the white house, let alone give him a job. >> okay. so ken vogel, he was warned about michael flynn repeatedly, now saying nobody warned him. why? why do we end up with michael flynn as a national security adviser? >> i mean, this is a textbook case of the trump first campaign and then transition team and the administration lacking all of the traditional vetting techniques of a top tier political and presidential administration. what's interesting here is that all these disparate warnings are about different things. obama did an obama warn in trump a couple of days after the election because of flynn's management of the intelligence agency. >> and he fired him. >> which he was fired from. there were stories by including in the conservative media i should credit chuck ross
actually reported with the daily caller was banging the drum about flynn's lobbying work for a dutch company connected to the turkish president erdogan, which became a suggest of investigation. then you had sally yates whose concerns were about the potential kompromat exposure. and then there are other people who said this guy in july, july 2016 during the height of the campaign was calling for russia to hack hillary clinton's emails. clearly he is not a good guy to put in charge of national security, yet all the warnings went completely unheeded. >> julia, what are they focusing on right now? >> the idea is that this will not be any more on obstruction. robert mueller settled that. so what we saw in the court papers series that there was efforts of obstruction, but the question is essentially been settled. well, he didn't make the decision and then william barr did. but it would be hard to see a scenario where that gets reopened, and that there is
somehow this evidence leads to more obstruction. although i think in the court of public opinion and in congress what we'll be looking at is who is this member of congress who would have directed flynn to lie or to not tell the truth to mueller. >> i think another big question i think regarding flynn is we still don't know why he lied to the fbi about his russian contacts, and so we may find out pretty soon because on may 31st, a federal judge just said the transcript of flynn's phone call with the russian ambassador after the 2016 election is going to be released. >> it's going to be very interesting. paul, let us know if you figure out. >> that is always one of the big things about all these investigations. most of the people are under indictment or going to prison because of lies they told investigators, and we're still not sure about why they lied. what's underneath all of that? i think that's what we're most looking forward toe in that transcript. >> in many ways it validates
sally yates' warning that this guy, he is lying, and it puts him at exposure. and ultimately, the exposure ended up being from prosecutors, but, you know, she is suggesting it could have easily been from russia. >> julia ainsley, thank you so much for being here. great reporting as always. ken vogel, thank you to you as well. when we continue, we have seen women as vice presidential candidates before. geraldine ferraro and sarah palin. ted cruz tried to one up donald trump in 2016 by naming a woman, carly fiorina as his running mate. but now there is chatter the top female presidential candidates might serve on unity tickets with say joe biden and, surprise, that's not going over very well. allie vitale is joining me with their reporting coming up next. t exactly, nothing. they're completely different people, that's why they need customized
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white house by flipping white working class trump voters into the democratic column. but in a column for "the new york times," counters an electable candidate has to be authentic and broadly appealing, but authenticity itself is coded as white and male when it's defined by white men. it may be why some women running in 2020 is a field of potential running mates, more so than presidential candidates. this week senator kamala harris flipped that notion on its head. >> senator, are you sick of all the talk of how you'd be a perfect running mate? >> you know, listen, i think that sure, if people want to speculate about running mates, i encourage that, because i think joe biden would be great running mate. as vice president, he has proven that he knows how to do the job, and there is certainly a lot of other candidates that would make for me a very viable and interesting vice president. >> boom. let's bring in nbc political reporters allie vitale, back
from traveling with senator elizabeth warren in new hampshire, and vaughn hilliard, on the trail with senator kamala harris in los angeles. vaughn, i will start with you because we were just playing that sound bite from kamala harris, who if you speak to people behind the scenes, it sounds like she maybe would have had a lot more to say if she really had let loose. but, you know, contained herself to that one kind of clip back. >> yeah, kasie, we just came down the freeway here in los angeles where she held her first major event here in los angeles with about 5,000 people here in attendance. and for kamala harris, there is a new banner behind her at this rally today, and it said "fearless." kamala harris is heading herself up as somebody who can be an advocate across the board. i actually want to play with you a little bit of sound. this was from earlier this month in which kamala harris even more directly took on this idea of electability when she visited detroit. she spoke at the naacp dinner there. this is part of what she said. >> there has been a lot of
conversation by pundits about the electability and who can speak to the midwest, but when they say that, they usually put the midwest in a simplistic box and a narrow narrative. and too often their definition of the midwest leaves people out. >> kasie, just look at the way that the kamala harris campaign sees this. look at michigan, for instance. donald trump won in 2016 by just 11,000 votes. and while often the attention is turned to places like macomb county, largely white electorate once voted democrat that went into republican hansds, the kamala harris campaign says let's turn the rhetoric around. let's look at wayne county. this is the most diverse, democratic county in michigan. it's where detroit is, where dearborn is. and if you look at 2012 versus 2016, what they saw in that
county was a 6% drop in turnout. there were 37,000 viewer voters in that county that holds detroit. so when you look at that 11,000 margin in a county that voted in a 2-1 favor for hillary clinton, the kamala harris campaign contends that they would win michigan if you just drive that turnout to barack obama levels of 2012. kasie. >> and certainly that was a big part of barack obama's strategy was driving up turnout in heavily african american areas. allie vitale, you're just back from covering elizabeth warren. she and other women candidates have also been facing these quote/unquote electability questions. >> yeah. i think there is two conversations people are having when they talk about electability, though. on the one hand, it's can you beat trump, which is top concern for most voters that i talk to. on the other hand, it's that lurking gender question that we're all very much aware of. on the electability trump front, elizabeth warren did struggle with that at the beginning, because you remember she had
that uncharacteristically bad roll-out of that dna test. a lot of voters looked at this as can she beat trump. i think that has largely dissipated probably because it switched early enough in the race. >> we saw a switch from pocahantas, the president's slur of her to t-shirts. >> have i plan for that. nevertheless, she persisted. all of those things really percolating at her rallies. and certainly that happened early enough in the campaign for people to forget about it or replace her as the new candidate she is. and then there are people like amy klobuchar who take on gender in a different way. >> there is this conversation going on right now across the 2020 field about electability. do you feel like that's a euphemism for asking candidates can a woman win? >> first of all, a new woman can win. just ask the new governor of kansas. just ask the women that we've seen across the country win in major major races and show their strength with incredible women with backgrounds in the military
and backgrounds in managing companies. >> and so i think the real question is going to be there are some voters out there who are always going to have that je ne sais quoi i don't know why i just can't get behind a woman candidate. >> i would photo voet for a woman, just not this vet. >> but then for the women candidates in this race, there is the rest of the electorate who can be won over, and it's a question of how they contend with gender and -- gender and policy, gender and the kind of candidate they want to be. that's kind of what i'm looking to see as i stay out on the campaign. >> and lexi, there has always been this kind of underground conversation among some democratic strategists that i talked to say that the fact of the gender may answer the question of whether you can beat donald trump, that there is concern that because of what happened with hillary clinton, that a woman cannot beat donald trump, which obviously does not go over well with many of these women candidates. that said, are there challenges if you are a woman to running
against donald trump in a general election? >> certainly. thing are challenges for anyone, though. if there is anything we know about president trump, he is an equal opportunity aggressor. >> a great way to put it. >> we know that he will go against a woman and attack a woman in the same way that he'll try to attack anyone else, whether you're a man or otherwise. when i talk to swing voters around the country, what's interesting to me is that they think that president trump will have the hardest time beating a candidate of color i think in some ways because these folks voted for obama twice and trump once, and they think he'll have the easiest time beating someone who is gay, and i think that's because they're totally unfamiliar with the idea of someone gay being president more so than the idea of a woman being president. there are a ton of women running, but there are a lot of white men running. so i think the question will whether and how voters around the country become okay with the idea of seeing a woman in leadership and not as allie said relying on this oh, i just don't know what i like about her but i don't noe i don't like her when
there are so many women rung. if you're saying that about all these women, it might become a question of how sexest are we as a country. >> certainly there are still a lot of barriers to be broken down. allie vitale, thank you so much for your reporting. vaughn hilliard, great to have you. travel safe, both of you. more "kasie dc" to come in just a moment. e in just a moment no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on our car insurance with geico. we could have been doing this a long time ago. so, you guys staying at the hotel? yeah, we just got married. oh ho-ho! congratulations! thank you. yeah, i'm afraid of commitment... and being boiled alive. oh, shoot. believe it. geico could save you 15% or more on car insurance. that guy's the worst.
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a congressional battle that keeps resurfacing like a string of bad signals, budget negotiations. in a sneak preview of what's to come, "politico" reports that the big 4 have agreed to begin negotiating a two year deal to lift stiff budget caps. before anyone's eyes glaze over, this is actually an incredibly important moment that speaks to whether or not we're going to deal with additional government shutdowns. what is the state of play? >> this goes back to a 2011 budget law. the idea was they would always every two years come along and there is a new deal to avoid those cuts. >> the idea was make it so bad for both sides that everybody would be forced to negotiate. and that strategy completely failed. >> and they're now at a point
where there would be $100 billion cut across the board to the budget for just one year. >> paying to the defense department, all of these other agencies that democrats care about, too. >> and it also leads to potentially government shutdowns and a default on the national debt. mitch mcconnell hates government shutdowns. >> how many times have we been kicked by the mule. >> he said there is no lesson learned in the second kick of a mule. he kicked the mule over christmas and had a 35 day shutdown. i have never been kicked by a mule once, twice or three times. >> laura, the reality that this kind of deal will get done quickly, slim to none. >> democrats criminontrol the h now. they controlled every chamber and it still happened. so now with democrats, they are
going to want some concessions. it will be interesting to see whether or not trump after being brought to the table by mccarthy and mcconnell backs away and gets frustrated by this. >> right. there has been some reporting that the administration was going to say they didn't want to lift the caps, which is a whole other mess. when we return, what to watch for in the week ahead. ahead. i'm aiming it. ohhhhhhh! i ordered it for everyone. [laughing] (dad vo) we got the biggest subaru to help bring our family together. i'm just resting my eyes. (dad vo) even though we're generations apart. what a day. i just love those kids. (avo) presenting the all-new three-row subaru ascent. wave to grandma, everybody. (avo) love is now bigger than ever. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ applebee's new loaded fajitas.
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rolling out this climate change policy proposal. i think it is becoming one of the big issues in the 2020 election. the justice democrats and aoc are coming after politicians who they think are not progressive enough. but we'll see how much flak he gets. >> paul? >> disaster relief. it used to be something that was always bipartisan, trying to pay for wild fires out west, puerto rico. this has been going on for months. they haven't been able to fund the bill. and this is a basic building block. if you can't get buy haipartisa relief, that makes all the other stuff hard to do this year. >> now saying that trump's conduct is impeachable, i want a temperature check on the battleground district democrats and see where they are moving. from what i'm hearing, few of them are starting to say maybe we should be moving in the
impeachment direction. >> an interesting take on that. i am watching for the classified iran briefing coming up this week. that's going to do it for us tonight here on casey d.c. for now, good night from washington. this is my fight. >> after months of will he or won't he -- >> we begin this morning with a great big name entering the race. >> he is in. >> former el paso congressman beto o'rourke is officially running for president. >> amy and i are happy to share with you i'm running to serve you as the next president of the united states of america. >> beto is the kind of candidate who can appeal to voters in these states and turn the electoral map on its head. >> beto is a star candidate as much as he is a politician. >> another step for the texas phenom who nearly beat senator ted cruz. >> took out more votes than any other democrat state-wide had ever gotten.