this hour. i'll be back tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern time. the news continues with my colleague, richard lui. >> hello to all of you. i'm richard lui live here at msnbc headquarters in new york city. we'll start this hour for you with more breaking news. federal investigations are under way into the death of jeffrey epstein. officials say he died by apparent suicide in his jail cell. he was in federal custody while awaiting trial on child sex trafficking charges. multiple people familiar with the investigation are telling nbc news epstein was not on suicide watch. his death comes after he was found injured in his jail cell just in late july. he was semi-unconscious at the time and had marks around his neck. sources say he was placed on suicide watch in july but was taken off since then. epstein was indicted last month on federal charges of sex

trafficking teenage girls as young as 14 years old. the politically connected investment banker with ties to donald trump, bill clinton, prince andrew and more had pled not guilty to the charges. epstein's death comes one day after nearly 2,000 disturbing court documents were unsealed detailing how he lured young girls in florida and new york. joining us now is jonathan dienst. jonathan, a lot to has been happening. first off a statement from the defense attorney. is that right? >> the defense attorney speaking as an individual only saying he was upset by this. felt the jail had a responsibility to protect him and voicing anger at the prosecutors and media claiming this case got carried away and saying that there's blood on everybody's hands as a result of this and calling for an investigation. a very tough, angry statement from one of the attorneys representing mr. epstein.

>> calling for an investigation, putting questions behind how this happened, he was not on suicide watch. that's part of it. >> the attorney general said he is concerned about what happened and the fbi is investigating. normally the fbi does not investigate suicides in prison. so why? because this is such a high profile case. all indications are from multiple sources, multiple agencies, this was a suicide by hanging. >> all right. >> but the fbi will look and the inspector general, the justice department will look as to what were the protocols. what systems were in place to try to ensure the safety of this inmate? there was an incident a couple weeks ago where jeff steen was fou jeffrey epstein was found with marks on his neck. appeared to be a suicide attempt back then. he was meeting with psychologists, put on suicide watch for days, perhaps a week. convinced apparently prison personnel that he was okay. he was moved to a lone cell.

now the question is how often was he monitored and checked on when he was in that lone cell. >> any discussion of foul play? somebody watching from the outside might say that's why they're questioning what's happenin happening. >> they'll look into any possibility, but right now foul play is not at the top of the list. it appears the way he was found -- they have not told us how he hanged himself. if he was not on suicide watch, just in a regular cell in that separate unit, he would have had access to bed sheets, blankets, clothing. thus it is possible and as explained to me generally in that unit, the doors are steel doors. just one glass window, and a prison officer would come by and do a periodic check through the glass to check on an inmate in that unit. that's the protocol. exactly how often that happen,

was it every 15 minutes, was it every three hours, what about overnight shifts versus daytime shifts, all these questions not answered yet. >> jonathan, thank you. the u.s. attorney putting out a statement within the last hour. what was that? >> the u.s. attorney put out a statement saying he feels badly for the victims. he says the criminal investigation is ongoing. why? because there are conspiracy counts connected with this sex trafficking allegation. you cannot have a conspiracy run by one person. has to mean that perhaps others were involved. the question is who. who helped him recruit the women? who also may have sexually abused these women? those questions ongoing. the u.s. attorney and the fbi continuing to investigate those angles. >> great to have you here. jonathan dienst, thank you so much. the latest within the last hour for us. appreciate it. joining us now is lisa bloom who represents two of epstein's accusers. lisa, as you heard the latest

details from jonathan, your reflection? >> my clients are devastated that they will not get their day in court, that jeffrey epstein will not have to face justice, that he managed to escape it. one of them said to me i hope that whoever allowed this to happen also faces some type of consequence. you stole from us the huge piece of healing that we needed to move on with our lives. by i can assure you that even though the criminal case against him personally is over with his death, the civil cases will go on against his estate. i'm calling upon the administrator of his estate to hold all of his assets, to not distribute them and to allow victims to come forward with their claims. even though mr. epstein was such a predator, who did so much harm to women during his life, i would hope his family would do right by his victims in death and give them the compensation they need so they can get therapy, they can pay medical

bills, they can get their careers back on track. because he has harmed so many women. they deserve full and fair compensation. >> do your clients, for lack of a better word right now, do they feel cheated based on what happened here? do they want to see a different outcome? what have they said to you personally about that very element? >> yes. we have been working behind the scenes with the criminal authorities over the last few weeks. we felt it was more important that the criminal case proceed than a civil case for money damages. that's what we agreed was the right thing to do. that's what we've done. with his passing, though, the civil case will get filed shortly, probably this week. we will seek from his estate compensation for what he did to my clients. she not escape that. they should be made whole. >> thank you very much. appreciate your time. i want to go to barbara mcquaid,

carl lannick, and the senior editor and writer for the daily beast. let's start with you, carol. what might be the next step? we're watching a story developing within the last 24 hours here. less than 24 hours. you've seen the statements coming from the u.s. attorney as well as lisa bloom, who is representing two of those who were trying to pursue some action against jeffrey epstein. in addition to that, his defense attorney saying they want an investigation. >> there are two major fronts for the future here. the first is the investigation of what's happened. that's probably not top of mind for the victims, but as the attorney general has signaled in several statements, he is appalled. his staff has said he's livid. he can't believe this happened in a facility that's ultimately

run by the department of justice and the bureau of prisons. the most high profile person you can have, who has already signaled in some way he's in danger, either he attempted to kill himself two weeks ago or he was attacked, we don't know the answer to that question, he is somebody with red flags all over him, so how could he get hurt? that goes right up to the attorney general's office. he announced he would have an inspector general review how this happened. ultimately this man is dying with a lot of secrets. that gets to the next point, what happens the victims? as ms. bloom pointed out, people can seek basically repayments from jeffrey epstein's extensive estate. that may be where any recovery

comes from in the way of some sort of monetary payment for the pain that they've experienced and say they can establish. but the first thing's first, how did it happen that a man who is probably to some of these victims public enemy number one, how does he die with all this information including some of his powerful and famous friends, two presidents among them. >> barbara, the u.s. attorney saying that this case will move forward. there's questions about a conspiracy. fill in the blanks for us here. >> i was gratified to see the statement the u.s. attorney issued this morning. when a defendant dies, his indictment is dismissed. the purpose of criminal prosecution is to punish, but he also emphasized today there is a conspiracy investigation that is ongoing. so others who helped him procure

young women for sex or those who participated in sex acts with him, knowing the girls were under age and paying for this, they can be charged with sex trafficking. i thought that was reassuring that the investigation will continue into other wrongdoers. i also note that william barr said that the inspector general is investigating this. they would be looking to see whether the bureau of prisons failed to follow protocols or whether the protocols are inadequate and needs to be changed. they also said the fbi is investigating. they would be looking for crimes. is there a murder that occurred here by an inmate or prison guard? were his civil rights violated through some sort of abuse? that's the only reason why the fbi would be investigating. >> wide reaction here. what might they be looking into at this moment? barbara brought up some potentialities there. >> i think they'll look into what were the prison guards

doing at the time? there's protocol they need to follow. >> federal facility here. >> there's federal protocol to be followed. i asked, others are probably asking, are these guards following their protocols? what is the investigation into those protocols? have these guards have been placed on modified duty? i assume there's surveillance cameras in the prison, what do they show? they'll look at the minute by minute account between when he was found and when fdny was called and when he showed up to the hospital. >> you know, barbara, as we look at this case and how it's developed, what will be the outcome? when will we know when that outcome might be? hard to put a timeline around it, i imagine. >> the outcome with regard to jeffrey epstein is done, over. there will probably be the dismissal of the indictment monday morning if not sooner.

with regards to the others, the investigation will continue. if there is no evidence, no case that is established against any other defendant, normally what happens is the case just ends without any notice to the public, which could be very unsatisfying. if charges are filed, we'll know when it happens. there's certainly individuals named in that plea agreement in the southern district of florida by name as people who had some potential criminal exposure. those appear to be employees who assisted jeffrey epstein in procuring and arranging for young girls to come to his home. the really interesting part of that plea agreement was the phrase giving immunity to any potential co-conspirators. unusual term to put in there, such an open-ended provision. that has always made me and others wonder whether there wasn't somebody they were seeking to protect in that. i think the southern district of new york will look hard to get to the bottom of it. without jeffrey epstein as a potential cooperator, who knows what's going on, it could be

some of those secrets go to the grave with him. >> 2,000 documents unsealed yesterday. is that part of the process of what happened in the last 12 hours? >> it's a dramatic ending for all of those records that my colleagues and i read all day long yesterday and summarized in a gruesome report for it to end with his death today. it's hard to not connect them, but i don't think we can jump to that conclusion. many of the things that were in those documents are things jeff knew had been alleged about him before. they just came to the fore for us. they were pretty unseenly to read. the system he apparently created to make sure he had a lot of young women around him for sexual satisfaction at every hour of the day. >> you have done a lot of reporting on epstein. these unsealed documents, what

happened in the last 12 hours, comment on that. >> i think in the last 12 hours we've seen some sort of a -- of a realization of just, you know, how big this thing is. all the people that epstein knew. some of this was already known, but i think this was just magnifying that, adds to it, gives us more substance. and i think it also calls into question, you know, who are the people who have been helping him along the way. that's where this investigation will go next. >> great. thank you very much. appreciate your time on this breaking news story. right now, 2020 candidates are in iowa for the legendary state fair. but also a new forum on gun violence. how america's two mass shootings and gun reform are dominateding the campaign trail. p. our miles. earn unlimited 1.5 miles and we'll match it at the end of your first year. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip. woman: ooh! (gasp) or not. you okay?

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congress recognizes that open hearings, open hearings before the cameras are really, really important for the country in terms of dealing with even the most controversial issues, in terms of airing out complex stuff, stuff we're fighting about as citizens, as partisans, as independents and voters. you know it's august in the year before a presidential election. that means, yes, that the candidates are in da moices moir the iowa state fair this year a handful of democrats hope to make the most of their 20 minutes on the des moines register soapbox. as they take their cases directly to the american people there, many iowans in attendance as well. perhaps enjoy some good old fried butter, a corn dog or two. you're looking at a live shot of the soapbox where john hi

hickenlooper is, i guess, soapboxing. in the wake of last week's shootings is renewed and fierce debate over guns. on a day where funerals are being held for the victims in both cities, more than a dozen 2020 candidates are participating in a town hall over that issue of gun control. you're looking at a live shot now of that event where mayor bill deblasio is telling folks what he thinks. our nbc news road warriors are in des moines for us. von, you're at the state far. you have a little special guest with something at stake here. >> yeah. there's one candidate to talk to today. there's a whole slew of them, i know john hickenlooper is on the soapbox now, but we needed to invited the senator from minnesota, amy klobuchar. there's a rivalry between iowa and minnesota who has t.

who has the better state far? >> they are both good, they're different. minnesota is bigger. we both have butter sculpture carvings, they have the cow. i just saw it. fine art. beautiful. what is great about the state fair? >> there's a big deal at both of our state fairs. it brings people together from rural and more metropolitan areas like des moines. in our case, the twin cities. you want to bridge the rural and urban divide, you bring the city people over to see the pumpkins and where the food comes from. it's important. also the politics. if you can't make it at the state fair, you're not willing to go out there and talk to people that you never met and answer questions, you won't be able to make it in this heat the primary or the general election. i love being out there. we're having a great day at the fair. >> as part of that conversation,

there's a lot of festivities around here. just down the block there's a forum taking place about gun violence. the tenor around this atmosphere is different because of those mass shootings the last week. what have you been hearing from people? what has it been like to engage in those conversations? . i took part in that forum. the last few days i went on a 20-county tour of iowa. it wasn't just people showing up at the town halls and meetings, it was just people on the street. they would talk about gun safety. my state, like iowa, like a lot of states in the midwest, they're proud hunting states. but i can tell you now, sensible background checks are not going to hurt my uncle dick in his deer stand. you're seeing more and more hunters come to the conclusion. a lot of it was parkland and the kids. i'm willing to talk about this.

>> republicans held up support of background checks in 2016. are you having those conversations with some republican colleagues? >> yes, and i have for a long time. i heart it was heartening when you saw a republican representative in ohio, his district is dayton, came around to believing we should ban military style weapons. i think that dayton story, where the cops got there in a minute, they did everything they could, but nine people were still killed in 30 seconds with a high capacity magazine. that tells it all. that is what will change the hearts here. there's nothing law enforcement could have done better there. we still lost nine innocent lives. >> senator klobuchar, thank you. >> thank you. >> richard, live from the iowa state fair. >> eat a cheese kurd. >> i'm a michigan state fair guy. great conversation there.

>> michigan state fair. >> get him out of here. >> all right. thank you so much. you heard the conversation, you've been listening to conversations at that town hall about this very issue of guns. the senator was reflecting on some ideas she had, certainly you heard many ideas there at town hall. >> that's right. a lot of it has hinged on several similar themes. there's been a lot of blame laid at the feet of mitch mcconnell and the national rifle association for blocking any gun control legislation what's been attempted. a lot of urgency from the speakers saying they would like to see something brought to congress when congress comes back in session this fall but also a focus on mental health and not the way that republicans talk about it. the democrats on the stage using it as an additional thing says, yes, we have to look at mental health but also the issue of

guns and how we control them. there was another interesting moment that got the crowd going here when kamala harris was on stage a little while ago. listen to that. >> young black and brown men should not be thought of as disposabl disposable. it should not be -- [ applause ] -- expected and unsurprisinging when they are killed. back to the point, the loss of any life, any child in our community is the loss of a child in our community. it should be treated as such. >> richard, that just underscores this idea there are many different kinds of gun violence. yes, we're focused on this forum after those two mass shootings in dayton and el paso this past week. at the same time, it's violence and it's in communities of color. the main point here is it now is the time for action. urging more grassroots action as the senate heads back in in the

fall. >> thank you so much. we will touch base with you throughout the weekend on those two items. let's bring in our panel now. michael crowley, susan del persio and basil sha michmichae. this issue about guns is what resonates. lots of different ideas out there at the moment. when we look at specifically -- this is number five for the control room in terms of trump voter issues, it lays out what's most important. immigration at the top. economy. when you get down to the issue of guns, gun control, not surprising, but 4%. how will this resonate with trump-based voters as he's considering potentially background checks. >> it's also up there with education and taxes. i find that very disconcerting.

i think right now, if you want to seek a solution and going to republican lawmakers, i think the best solution is going after the high capacity magazine. there's no reason you need 100 bullets in a clip. that's something like the bump stock that they could get done. i don't know if it could be done by presidential order or not, that legislation would be clear and hit a lot of people. otherwise you have to look at state by state legislation. that takes time. it takes resources. but the group you had up there, every town for gun safety and moms demand action, they raised more money than the nra and spent more on gun safety issues in 2018. >> that was a poll down by pew research a couple years ago. republican support for background checks and those who

are gun owners. 52% of them say they support background checks. 75 parse non-members support. 5 out of 10. that might surprise some folks. >> it might. but most americans -- you heard amy klobuchar talk about this earlier -- they are okay with some change. sometimes maybe it's in some cases better that we -- not better but more expeditious that we focus on some of the equipment as opposed it other types of laws. that may just get through easier. state -- in the absence of federal action, state by state there have been more rigorous gun laws enacted. maybe that's where the rubber meets the road, we focus on state legislatures, governors and the work they can do. i would add this. i agree with the tact that kamala harris is taking. this is beyond dayton and el paso. with all due respect to those incidents and they're

horrendous. there's gun violence going on in communities of color, my communities every single day. so this might be an opportunity for a great sort of coalition. suburban families, rural families getting together with the groups that have been doing this work like harlem of the saved that i worked with for decades. >> one quick other number, 23. that's how many days it took after the parkland shooting for the governor to sign legislation it can happen that quick. >> when we look at this idea of state to state, michael, you heard those who would be critical of that saying you don't need state to stated, you can buy one state and go to a neighboring state. can you hear me? >> i'm sorry. you can repeat the question? >> those who might be critical of the idea of going stated to state and getting governors on board is that you can buy a state in one gun, move to a nas neighboring state and that circumvents the idea of doing it on a local level.

>> that's right. it goes to the larger point that this is just a fiendish problem to try to fix. when you look at, among other things, the sheer number of guns out there in this country. a lot of the mass shootings we've seen in recent years were committed by people who would not have been prevented from obtaining firearms in those cases. that doesn't mean you don't take action. it means this is a long, complicated, difficult process. so people who might be holding out hope that this will be a signature moment where we'll have sweeping reforms, it's going to transform this problem, i think unfortunately they're getting their hopes up too high. that is assuming that the president and the key figures here will follow through on action. it's not even clear that's the

case. >> thank you all. appreciate your time. >> thank you. breaking news, jeffrey epstein's death by apparent suicide. we've got more about epstein's long and what many are calling a lurid history from reports who have covered him for years. do you want ready to wear clothing without all the hassle? you can, with bounce dryer sheets. we dried one shirt without bounce, and an identical shirt using bounce. the bounce shirt has fewer wrinkles, less static, and more softness and freshness. bounce out wrinkles, bounce out static. this inot this john smith smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith, who met with humana

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>> i want people to know if they come into the united states illegally, they'll be brought out. this serves as a very good deper deterrent. if people come into our country illegally, they're going out. >> 680 suspected undocumented immigrants were arrested in mississippi on wednesday. more than half remain in custody right now. arrests were made from six different food processing plants leaving hundreds of kids abandoned, terrified and worried about their missing parents. >> i need my dad by me. my dad didn't do nothing, he's not a criminal. >> the house homeland security committee chairman sent a letter

to the acting i.c.e. director. he stated the organization did not notify child protection services 24 hours after the raids took place. that left communities scrambling. the agency says it did not notify schools or child services ahead of time because it did not want to tip anyone off before the raid happened. an i.c.e. official told nbc we are a law enforcement agency, not a social services agency. joining me now is larsen campbell, a reporter for mississippi today. it's great to have you here in studio. in your reporting, what is not being brought out, you think, enough in this story line? >> i really don't think you can hit this sort of overlooking the children angle enough. as you said, you hit the nail on the head with this, it wasn't the priority, the raid was the priority. when you have these situations, we still don't know how many

children were affected. how many parents, you know, were taken away from their kids, if they were taken away for a night or a few hours. we don't know this stuff because the federal officials were not in contact with the schools. they were not in contact with child protection services. that kind of flies in the face of what their own protocol is. they should prioritize these things, they didn't, and there's a lot of unanswered questions. >> we're talking about a state, mississippi, where we don't often get these headlines out of. is this a prevalent issue in the state of mississippi that we're watching, these particular processing plants and undocumented immigrants? >> i think it caught a lot of people by surprise. there's a sense in mississippi that the immigrant communities there fly under the radar. when you talk about texas, when you talk about california, it's not really mississippi you think of as having a huge influx of

immigrants. >> on the other hand, it's a really political issue in mississippi. there was a poll done about a month ago, it was listed as the number two issue for voters in mississippi. people are fired up about this. we have a lot of big statewide elections coming up. people are running with it. >> you heard what we quoted, it was said we're not a social services organization. two icr officials told nbc news that some parents of young children were allowed to go because they had children that were five or younger. also saying a phone call was allowed in some situations as well. as a result of that, about half of those identified were let go. >> sure, for humanitarian reasons, that's the line they're giving us. we don't know this. we have to take their word for it. they say they provided phones

for everybody. i got ahold of an email sent from one federal group to another federal group, it was not supposed to be seen outside of these agencies, ten cell phones were provided for 680 parents to make their child care arrangements. a lot of people could argue that's not adequate. we still don't know. >> great to have you here. larsen campbell with the latest from the state. let's bring in our next guests. you heard what larsen was telling us about what's happening on the ground there in mississippi. you come from the state that many folks would associate with such issues, yet this particular action taken on by i.c.e. happened in mississippi instead. and the story lines, they don't look necessarily good when we think of the children here. >> it doesn't. let me give a little bit of a demographic context, richard.

over the 2000s, the south, even though we don't tend to think of it as a traditional latino destination, between 2000 and 2010 we saw a population explosion in the southern part of the united states. tennessee, north carolina, arkansas, mississippi, seeing rates of 1,000 percent growth rate with latinos. i think understanding this demographic portrait helps us situate why the issue of immigration and the issue of la teens no and n latinos and immigrants has become such a raw issue here. latinos are not a big part of the population in the southern states but their rates of growth has triggered this awareness. you add in issues such as i.c.e. raids, larger national rhetoric. we see why the reporter who was just on was highlighting these facts. >> richard, as was said, i.c.e. is not a social services

organization. that was the quote that we used earlier. why not then work with a social services agency in the process? >> well, i think it's become abundantly clear, particularly from my vantage point in texas and el paso in particular that the simple reason is cruelty is the point. i don't think that's lost on anybody. in el paso we had children incarcerated in horrific conditions, people were held under a bridge and later at a facility that the inspector general of the government himself found deplorable and people there were planning on suicide. this is not a coincidence. the cruelty is the point of the policy. that goes to what the president said yesterday. this is what the president of the united states is seeking, abject cruelty towards immigrants from latin america. >> victoria, we've seen where social services organizations,

either government related or community related will work with state and federal and local government agencies to undertake difficult procedures as we have been reporting on that i.c.e. undertook in mississippi. is there an example that stands out in your mind where that was undertaken and it was done well and they were able to yaoffset what we've seen with the children now coming home to no parents? >> i.c.e. raids are always going to be chaotic. the difference we've seen is in this administration really the scale of the i.c.e. raids that we're seeing are something that we did not see under the obama administration. there were a number of deportations, but not these mass roundups that we saw. this is part and parcel of the larger m.o. of the trump administration. the zero tolerance policy. the administration puts these hard line immigration policies

into place. cruelty may be a factor but it's also a complete lack and knowledge of the logistics that go into policy implementation. you can have a policy output of we'll do mass deportations, zero tolerance, but there's a lot of steps that have to be put in place before them. in this case one of those steps should have been let's have a centralized location where we can have a safe space for children whose parents have been caught up in this raid. that should have been one piece of the puzzle. but in this administration i'm not surprised at the lack of the logistical detail and the lack of concern for these individuals as well on a human basis. >> when it comes to these sorts of raids, whether related to immigration, trafficking and other complex issues, you will often see four, five, six, seven different governmental organizations working with community organizations. richard you wrote an article in the "new york times." "was trump's el paso visit a

turning poin ining point?" what tells you it might have been a turning point? >> a couple things. don't want us to lose track of something that's important in the discussion on gun control and what happened in dayton. the massacre in el paso was just that, it wasn't just another mass shooting by a person of nefarious but unknown motives with a high-powered weapon. this was a political ideological attack aimed specifically at latinos, exactly as the shooter has confessed to police. he came here to shoot mexicans. as a result, that's not just an attack on a walmart or on a community or in the city of el paso, just a big city, people don't tend to realize that. that was an attack on 60 million latinos across the country. that point has not been lost. my own mother who lives in el paso is afraid to go out.

she's also afraid to go out without her pass port. these issues are linked. whether it's the raids that took place in mississippi or the shootings in el paso. people are not dummies. >> what makes this a turning point, richard? what makes it a turning point in your view? >> the idea of activating 60 million latinos on the verge of the 2020 elections. that's a turning point. >> great to have both of you. next, breaking news. the apparent suicide of indicted child sex trafficker jeffrey epstein, we'll talk live with a reporter who spent years investigating him and broke this story wide open. (mom vo) especially at this age. (big sister) where are we going? (mom vo) it's a big, beautiful world out there.

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reporter julie brown whose series on jeffrey epstein led to the new arrest and the charges. julie, reflected on our network and others about what has surprised you about what has happened in the last 12 hours. tell us what did surprise you about the death of jeffrey epstei epstein. >> well, i think the same thing that surprised everybody else. you know, he was probably one of their highest profile prisoners -- the bureau of prisons most profile or one of them inmates. he had already allegedly tried to do himself harm a couple weeks ago. so i think everybody thought he would be on suicide watch, and we find out not only was he not on suicide watch, but no one was really keeping an eye on him apparently. you know, this in one of the prisons in our country that's supposed to be a fortress, el

chapo is housed there. you know, everyone knows that not many prisons can hold him. here he was able to do this it seems like. it raises a lot of prison here florida, he seemed to be able to manipulate people pretty easily. it raises questions about whether he was able to manipulate people here in the federal prison in new york because how could something like this have happened? >> part of that, julie, as you know, is that the criticism has already come from the republican side just this afternoon, for instance, from ben sass, saying to the attorney general, bill bar, hey, heads must roll. how did this happen under your watch there at the department of justice? does this bubble up all the way to the attorney general? >> i don't know about that. i mean, i think we got to wait and see exactly what happened, how it happened, do a thorough

investigation and then decide how something like that could happen. i mean, you know, one thing i have to say, seems like a lot of people are really upset about the fact that this happened, understandably. however, you know, as far as the victims go, they're shaking their heads saying people are more upset about him now committing suicide than him committing crimes all these years. >> the reporting as i was mentioning on the introduction to this segment, julie, that you were able to reach out to survivors, right, and they were able to speak to you in a way that has not been done before. have you spoken with any of them after this news came out today, and what are they telling you? >> i spoke to several of them and i also spoke to one of their mothers about it. you know, they are very emotional. i think they have a whole range, you know. on one hand, they feel like, you

know, emotional because somehow they've been robbed of something here where they had hoped to find closure and hoped to find justice. on the other hand, feeling angry, you know, that, again, to some decree, the criminal justice system has failed them, you know, that he was perhaps able to manipulate people again. and i think, you know, all of them felt like this is just another example of how he somehow was able to get away with something, that other people probably wouldn't have been able to to do. >> one might ask, and remind us, why would this investment banker be able to manipulate people of such different corners of power? >> money. i mean, it's really all about money. i mean, you know, they're going to do to look and see what he was doing with his counts in the days before this happened. was he transferring money around, who visited him, for

example, did he make a new will in the past couple of days. those are questions, i think, that the investigators are going to be asking. >> julie brown, thank you for taking the time. it's been a busy day for you there in florida as you are continuing this story on jeffrey epstein and the breaking developments that came out this day. thank you so much. joining us now, tim malloy, former reporter who's been following epstein for years in palm beach, florida. when you listen, tim, to what was said here by julie, what do you think? >> julie's been honest for a while and has donna heck of a job. i agree with her on almost everything. i do believe it was a suicide, but when the phones started ringing at my house today as well as my coauthor's house, everyone was asking how is it possible he was allowed to kill himself.

>> i'm sorry, timothy. how did you answer that question. in the discussion i know you were talking with your coauthor? >> he was as mist tiystified as. two days ago the 24-hour surveillance was dropped. why would that happen? and how coincidental is it? it goes back to the story. i'm not a conspiratorry guy. ever stranger story. >> in this chapter within the last 48 hours, that time frame you just mentioned, 2,000 odd documents unsealed. and very lured as has been reported details in those documents. might that be part of this latest chapter for jeffrey epstein? >> how much did he know? did he know that?

i'm not so sure. but i'm sure there's more to come and he knew that. 2,000 is a huge volume of information of people who knew or influenced him or he influenced. you know, this story did not die when he died overnight. this story is alive and well. i've been covering it for 14 years and julie brown for nearly as long. there's never ban story like this. it's unbelievable. >> when we look at the next steps, we heard from the u.s. attorney looking forward, looking at conspiracy. we heard from one of the defense attorneys for jeffrey epstein also saying how did this happen. what is the next chapter going to be like? >> you know, richard, at this point seems like anything is possible. how complicit if at all were the people at the u.s. attorneys office that julie has reported on, the acosta people, how much trouble are they in. he's gone. in this small community in palm

beach, it's resonated and the girls who are now women are safer, perhaps, than before. but the thing is it's not over. >> timothy malloy, reporter as well as author. thank you, sir for your perspective on this story. appreciate your time. up next for you, "politicsnation," reverend al sharpton speaks with presidential candidate beto o'rourke of texas after the mass shooting in his hometown of el paso. stick around for that. we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. e-commerce deliveries to homes before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? (vo) cascade platinum does the work for you. prewashing and removing stuck-on foods, the first time. (mom) wow! that's clean! (vo) cascade platinum. woman 1: i had no symptoms of hepatitis c. man 1: mine... man 1: ...caused liver damage.

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that does it for me this hour. thank for sticking around. i'm richmond lui. you can follow me on first time, instagram, on facebook. i turn it over to reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." we begin with breaking news tonight as the political world is still quaking from the death of financer jeffrey epstein, with both the department of justice and the fbi now involved in the investigation of epstein's apparent suicide by hanging. earlier this morning in his manhattan jail cell where he was being held without bond for multiple charges of federal sex trafficking. the news comes one day after