with the potential to shake up the field. front runner joe biden is again apologizing for a questionable remark. there's one candidate seriously considering exiting the race and another candidate is pushing the reset button. plus, what could be significant steps towards gun reform. new details about talks between the white house and capitol hill. and more pressure from mitch mcconnell from the president. but how much of it is just talk? and just as the investigation surrounding jeffrey epstein's death intensifies, his estate has been hit with the first lawsuit since his death. it was filed by one of his accusers and her attorney will join us ahead. but let's start with what's looking like a turn point for 2020 democrats where one candidate may reportedly be plotting an escape route and another is planning his big return to the trail. let's start with former congressman beto o'rourke. struggling in the polls but has a plan to reset his campaign with a big speech in el paso thursday. and former colorado governor john hickenlooper is reportedly

dropping out of the race do something he had been resisting, run for the u.s. senate. we're covering all this movement and some news, big news, actually, with other contenders with msnbc's garrett haake, felipe rainious, former secretary of state and spokesman for hillary clinton. and maria anna hossa. let's start with candidate beto o'rourke. his reaction to the shooting in el paso had people giving him another look. others suggesting that he could best be used at home. he could have the most impact there. but you have new reporting on what the plan is, that is to hit the reset button? >> yeah, that's right. so o'rourke has been off the campaign trail since last saturday when this shooting happened. that ends tomorrow morning with this major speech his campaign has been previewing tomorrow morning in el paso. what we'll see after that from o'rourke will be both a change in messaging and a change in how

he delivers that message. so we're going to see much more of a focus on donald trump on the issues of racism, white supremacy, on the issue of gun control and calling out specially what o'rourke sees as the seriousness of this moment of a president who he has linked in all these interviews that he gave over the last week and a half directly to violence on the streets of his hometown. and the seriousness of purpose that i think we're going to see here, o'rourke trying to address that with, that includes frankly probably calling out those of us in the media who o'rourke kind of got his viral moment calling out last week. there's also going to be this change in how they deliver that message. i think you can expect to seo roark poppi see o'rourke popping up at nontraditional places. it's hard to make the argument that the president is a existential threat and then proceed on the campaign trail like everything is normal. i would think you would see less state fair visits and more visits to places where you can highlight the abnormality of this political moment.

campaign reserts hard. a lot of times they do not work. but o'rourke has shown some talent in drawing attention to these moments in the past. he, you know has drawn a lot of attention over the last week and a half to his hometown at el paso. his campaign has shown no interest in changing tactics and going after of that senate seat. this is a run for the presidency. they want to make this a big moment about donald trump and what they see as o'rourke's kind of eye opening to how and best way to take him on. that's what we'll see starting tomorrow in el paso. >> the senate seat doesn't go away if he decides he's going to keep that the but it doesn't work out. rick, whether it would be a run for the white house or the senate, give me your take on beto o'rourke who got so much publicity in the beginning and was really seen at least at the very least a rising star what does he bring to the trail generally? and do you think maybe for a voter like you, a nondemocrat who may be somebody who had voted for donald trump,

anything? >> look, i think beto o'rourke made a great showing in texas running against my former boss ted cruz. and that became, you know, a story because texas is turning blue. i used to say it was slowly turning blue you but i think it's rapidly turning blue. bait toe sort of proved the case that texas could become a blue say the. he lost by less than three points. he used social media extraordinarily well. he was interesting and innovating. but, that -- all of that hasn't translated over into the presidential campaign. and i think part of the problem is people don't see bait toe as presidential. and so what worked in texas against ted cruz has not been working for him. and as garrett points out, maybe there's a reset in the campaign. we'll see if there's a resunset temperament as well. >> "the new york times" reports that john hicker looper is

mulling an end to his presidential bid to run for the senate. do you think he should and, second, is he just kind of the start if he gets out? we've talked for a long time about how who does and the doesn't make the debate stage in september is going to be a natural whittling process. >> as for governor hickenlooper, i'm not a big believer on telling people what they should and shouldn't run for. he's got to decide that for himself. i think he said this publicly. he ran for governor because had he executive experience in his background, he wanted to be governor. he thinks he'd be a good president. he doesn't think he'd be a great senator. so the last thing you want is for someone to run for a job that they don't want. and frankly, looking at the u.s. congress these days, i don't know anyone that would want to work there. >> although, let me make this argument. you can make the argument i could hear him saying i'm a patriotic american. >> sure. >> the most important thing question do is to control both

houses. if i can help us take the senate, then i want to do that. and there are things that i talked about in my presidential campaign that i want to get done. >> absolutely. there's a rational for it, but think we shouldn't forget that there are, i believe, half a dozen other americans running for that race. it's the same thing in texas. the way we took back the house last year wasn't on huge names, it was actually quite the opposite. it was people who had served recently, they were younger. and this is not an attack on hickenlooper or beto, but i'm not sure the big name's needed if the someone said i have a crystal ball and if hinge loockr jumps into senate we win, otherwise we don't, yeah, i'd be saying get in. but your point about the exit, we're going to be seeing it a lot after people have to start filing their third quarter filings. because people -- it's money, you know. when you run out of money you can't pay staff and travel and it's a good sense of people not taking to you.

you mind yourself, we all have laptops, we all reboot them, restart them, we hit control alt delete. but if you're doing it four or five times, it's a good sign you have to take the laptop to the store. >> meanwhile, the front runner remains the front runner and "politico" is reporting that joe biden's campaign has been doing a little damage control among his latino supporters over the last debate. this has been weeks. he said, undocumented immigrants need to get in line and that the country has been right to cherry pick high-skilled immigrants. biden has been viewed sometimes with suspicion, obviously, he worked in an administration where his president was called the deporter and chief. what does he need to do here? >> so i've saided this before and i want to remind people i'm not a political operative, i'm a journalist. i'm just speaking me as a person. he needs to apologize.

>> he needs to say i should not have said that? >> no. actually what i think there is where it's broader about the democratic party, right? the democratic party cannot put its head in the sand and presend that barack obama who many people love and respect and did amazing things, but they cannot put their heads in the sand and pretend that 3 million people or more were not deported under president barack obama. which means that, yes, joe biden is part of that. so what i would do is not focus on the specificity of what he said here or what he said there and, by the way, we can talk about the getting in line thing because i was just in mexico and i saw people in line. so there is a line, sadly now. but i think it's more a heart felt like, wow, we really understand that we as a democratic party and myself as part of this administration, we were not operating -- we didn't understand fully what we were doing and what it could lead to. which is this. mass detention, mass celebration

of children, babies from their parents. it's all part of where we've gotten to now. so it's complicated, right? because i'm sure his staff is saying his staff, we can't if we own up to it. but i think that latino, la tina voters would appreciate somebody coming straight up and saying, wow, what a mistake, we shouldn't have done this. i need to take responsibility. and from there move on. by the way, i just want to say something about bait toe. christina, she was the former executive director of jolt texas, sch a latino-based electoral energizer in texas. she just dwhat job and announced two days ago that she's running for senate in texas. i was like, wow, that's nice but nobody knows you. she came out with an ad saying i want to raise $100,000 in 24 hours. chris, this morning she came out saying, guess what? we broke it. we raised $200,000. for essentially somebody who's a

no-name on a national scale in texas now running for senate. >> is this about her or is that about who she's running against? which is what a lot of people said about beto o'rourke, yes, he's charming, he has some political skills, but it was really about people wanting to get ted cruz out of office. >> i think what this really is about is understanding that texas is absolutely in play. that texas is no longer a red state. that texas is certainly purple, if not going to turn blue. and that sadly, chris, we cannot separate what happened in el paso recently from the kind of political energizing that's going to happen in texas. i mean, i hate to say that because this is a horror. but, latino/latina voters are getting energized because they feel directly attacked. >> let me go, felipe, from the big picture that we've been talking to the smaller picture and get your take on iowa. and one of the things that's being written a lot about is

kamala harris mounting this full-court press, a profile and "politico" reports after a slow start, including a canceled trip to vote for disaster relief in the senate that fanned the perception she wasn't taking the state seriously enough, harris's full time staff in iowa stands at 50. she's airing her first tv ad. it's kind of biographical along with her message. her supporters are quietly holding her up as the non-biden candidate who could beat trump. did you think she do you think she's the person to watch in iowa? what are you looking for in iowa? >> i think the top knife general or specifically the top four, harris, sanders, warren, and biden are obviously the ones to watch. i think warren probably, warren jumped in literally the first day of 2019. she has the biggest staff to start. you know, it's organization. and i'm not sure -- look, i've been part of campaigns for hillary clinton that have won iowa, that have lost iowa, i'm not going to pretend i understand iowa.

i do know you have to be on the ground and put the resource has no it. it does seem that elizabeth warren got the early jump on that. it's great that kamala harris is doing it. seems like everybody needs to be or anybody who wants to be the nominee needs to be the alternative to joe biden since he is the de facto front runner despite this constant stream of whether you want to call them slipups or gaffs. so, you know, it's unclear. the second choice numbers between harris, sanders and warren are pretty interesting. it's not -- it seems instinctively that you would think sanders and warren are in the same sandbox and harris and biden in the same sandbox, but it doesn't necessarily seem to be playing out that way. sanders and warren are not necessarily at the moment eventually everyone's going to be competing for the same bucket of voters, but at the moment they are not. so -- and, look, iowa has a way of upturning the race. in 2007, you know, the big question was can barack obama

win iowa? and the answer was a resounding yes and while the race went on longer than any other, it was tighter than any other, iowa essentially was the beginning of his beginning. >> yeah. i also before i let you all go, and i'll pose this question to you, rick. we've been looking at the boards. and if we can put that up again, if we can put up what's going on on wall street, we were down more than 500 points. gosh, almost 600 points now. ultimately as all this is happening on the democratic side, is this what republicans are watching right now? if what has happened in china, if the president's move to delay china tariffs, the bounce from that is short lived, any of the other economic indicators, is this the most significant factor in the race right now? >> i mean, the stock market technically isn't but it is because donald trump looks at the stock market and has decided the stock market -- >> he makes decisions off of it. >> right. and his success.

but you have a combination things going on right now. the bond yield inverted and that's what's troubling wall street right now. 2,500 truckers have lost their job just in 2019 which just shows a weakness in the retail sector. housing is down. housing starts are down. and there's a lot of uncertainty in the market. and the market likes stability. they like things that are predictable. they don't always get it. but trump makes it so unpredictable. he's concluded no trade deals except for south korea which resulted in us not being able to buy south korean pickup trucks for some reason until 2,042. but that's the extent of what trump has done on trade. the chinese are now manipulating their currency and trump's angry about that, but he's angry at our fed for not manipulating our currency. >> but when has he not been angry at the fed? >> or anybody. >> he's always looking for some excuse. but this is what he has to run

on is a robust opportunity economy. and if the market begins to collapse, people can't sell their homes, inflation -- by the way, these tariffs are terrible for the poor. rich people don't care about tariffs. you put a 25% tax on goods, rich people can buy them. but it's the difference between the poor eating today or not eating. it's a difference between farmers losing their long-term customers and never getting them back. those are the things that are going to affect not only the economy, but trump's prospects of re-election in the long run. >> as you were speaking it dropped another 30 points. >> i should stop talking. >> make rick stop speaking. >> rick tyler, we'll blame those 30 points on you. coming up, behind the scenes talks. new signs that the white house and congress may actually be talking about gun reform legislation. plus, new york state officials bracing for a flood of lawsuits tied to sexual abuse allegations against the catholic church.

the boy scouts, even jeffrey epstein all due to a major legal change that goes into effect today. and we're keeping an eye on the tense situation in hong kong. in the last hour police in riot gear facing off against hundreds of protesters a day after the violent clashes shut down the airport. r the violent clashes shut down the airport. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein.

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bipartisan talks with the aids of several key senators. they've been calling for reforms in the weeks after nationwide mass shootings in ohio, california, and texas. but is it that, just talk? let's bring in "politico" senior reiter jake sherman and "washington post" white house reporter ashley parker who are bong msnbc contributors. jake, you lay this out really well in the political playbook. who has been reaching out to whom and what's going on? >> it's clear the president says today and the last couple weeks, we don't know what he's going to say and do in the future, obviously, but says he's interested in some sort of gun control, gun law reform process. he has spoken to joe manchin, pat toomey, and to chris murphy, two democrats and a republican about moving some sort of process forward. he had all of their aides at the white house in new jersey. his aides spoke to white house

officials and to kind of get a lay of the land where things are. and those aides, some of them are going up to bedminster and brief the president in the coming days. here's why we should think this is -- if you're looking for gun control or gun law reform this is a good thing. you're not seeing right now a whole host of white house officials, ivanka trump, mick mulvaney, you're not seeing them take the reins, you're seeing people who understand capitol hill and are familiar with the policy, not kind of political tourist, but people who are familiar with the policy get control of this issue and figure out if there's a way forward. and to be clear, i still don't know whether this is going to happen. none of us know. i think ashley would concede that too. but, the president at the moment and his aides are talking and acting as if they would like to get something done. we don't know what it will look like. >> yeah. >> but we know that that's at this moment how they're acting. >> in the moment, ashley, is often the key phrase with this president. we've heard him in recent weeks characterize support for both --

by both the nra and mitch mcconnell, neither of those backed up what he was saying in any public way. but from what you're hearing from the white house, is this different? >> well, talking to people in the white house they do say privately that this is a moment where they think that president trump, if he wants to, and that's the key thing, if he wants to could actually get something modest like -- >> what does that mean if he wants to? i mean, it -- >> it means, frankly, that he's in a moment where he has the political clout. where he could give republicans on capitol hill cover to do this. >> okay. >> where he believes correctly that the nra is in a weakened moment where they say he's not actually going to lose his base if he moves ahead with some type of gun control. that basically, again, he has the ability to do this. but the if he wants to means that as jake said, right now everyone is proceeding a pace the way you would in a traditional political world where you're hoping to get some

form of gun legislation passed through congress. but president trump, as we know, he lives in the moments. his tweets, for instance, are sort of windows into what he is inking this at this seco thinking at that second and it can change in hours. same with his public comments. same if he goes to bedminster and he's watching tv and he sees his allies on fox news speaking to him directly through the camera and telling him not to do this, can he change his mind in a heartbeat and all of these conversations will fall to the wayside. we don't know what's happening in the future, but everyone is behaving as if there is a will, there is political cover, there's an interest and there are real behind the scenes work on legislation to get something done. >> and it's worth reminding people that he has spoken pretty confidently. he has said essentially i can get this done. i just want to remind people by playing what he said last week. >> i spoke to mitch mcconnell yesterday. he's totally on board.

he said i've been waiting for your call. he is totally on board. i spoke to senators that in some cases -- friends of mine, but pretty hard-line senators, hard line, when i say that i say that in a positive way, hard line on the second amendment. and they understand. >> but, on the other hand, jake, support for gun reform may be waning. the latest polling has republicans split on the issue, 47 to 45%, and ha is the that is the consult political poll. is there an over/under at this point or even on time something is there a sense that the emotional ko emotion emotional quotient is still high. >> well, this will have to wait until september. president trump has told allies he believes he has a moment. he believes we are living, america's living in a moment

where people are very respective to a background check proposal that he is going to lay out or that the hill is going to lay out. and i think he thinks that this will carry over to september. i think he might be right. listen, mitch mcconnell has not quashed this, which tells you all you need to know about his prospects on capitol hill. he seems to be fostering, they all seem to be fostering an environment in which conversations can happen. again, we don't know how long that the last, but in this moment that we're living in, i think that that is a -- if you're looking for reform, if you're looking for an overhaul, this ha is as good a chance that you get. this is not a new issue. we've had extreme gun violence since 2010/2011. so the fact that this kind of political concoction has been created here, i think it's worth noting and it's worth noting that nobody is doing the wrong things right now. >> thanks to both of you. i know you'll both be watching for us. but we also want to continue this to follow this breaking news on the markets. the dow has been hovering

between the high 5 hundreds down and the low 6 hundreds, so let's go to dominic which yochu. what's going on? >> it has to do with interest rates and what they might say about the future of the u.s. economy. in normal times an interest-rate environment has short-term borrowing costing less than long-term borrowing. . longer you lend somebody money the more risks there are down the line. in this case right now, the markets have now done something they haven't done since 2005 to 2007, prefinancial crisis, and that is where short-term interest rates are now more than long term interest rates. the reason why that is important is because when that yield curve inversion, you're going to hear those words tossed aid round quite a bit. when that happens, it's historically been a fairly reliable indicator or a leading indicator for recessions or economic downturns down the line. now the big caveat here, chris, is that there's any number of lengths to which this recession

might happen if it were even to come to fruition. on average, analyst say the last time this indicator has flashed, it usually takes about 22 months for the economy to turn south. nonetheless, the market moves that you're seeing today indicate that some traders and some investors feel as though there could be bleaker times ahead for the u.s. economy and that's why you're seeing stocks fall the way that they are, chris. >> dominic chu, thank you so much. we'll continue to watch what's going on there. still ahead, searching for answers. a justice department task force is spending this morning inside the jail where jeffrey epstein died. as new details emerge about the investigation. and a new lawsuit emerges. i'll speak with the attorney behind it next. t emerges. i'll speak with the attorney behind it next if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, every day can begin with flakes. it's a reminder of your struggles with psoriasis. but what if your psoriasis symptoms didn't follow you around?

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a woman who says jeffrey epstein repeatedly sexually assaulted her just filed the first lawsuit against his estate and a long-time associate. jennifer says it happened inside his new york city townhouse when she was 14 and 15 years old, including a forceable rape. we'll talk to her lawyer about it in just a moment. but first this morning a task force is looking for answers at

the federal new york jail where epstein and accuse sex trafficker was found unresponsive. authorities say he died by apparent suicide, although we're waiting for a formal ruling on that. investigators are looking into whether two guards who were supposed to be watching epstein were instead sleeping. that's according to two officials familiar with the investigation. so let's go to nbc news investigative reporter tom winters. had say team from the federal bureau of prisons? >> correct. >> and what are they looking for. >> basically they get assigned any time there's a major incident at one of their facilities they get assigned to go in and say what do we have? do we have a one-off problem? a larger problem? and what are we going to find and maybe what do we need to know for other prisons? that's according to my colleague pete williams who report thond. this is something that is standard. but of course it comes on top of what the inspector general is going to look into here. and then we have the fbi investigation that's looking into this death period and looking into any sort of criminal conduct that occurred, if it occurred, with respect to

epstein's death. got a couple different prongs of this going on right now. and this is something that's part of standard procedure, but obviously it's just another set of eyes or a group of eyes that are going to be looking at ha happened here following what we heard yesterday with respect to some already some disciplinary and administrative actions. >> those actions, the temporary reassignment which is not necessarily atypical of the warden. administratively for a couple people who were on duty that night, presumably one or all of those investigative teams are going to be wanting to talk to them t them. but what do you make of how quickly they moved on this? >> i think that was one of the more sur advisiprising things t that they had concluded there were mistakes made and individuals responsible for it. anytime you put somebody on an administrative leave, that's a job action. it's not go home, take time and cool off about it. it's, hey, we've found things

here that might -- >> inclyde colluding maybe sleeping on the job. >> and maybe cook the books about when you were supposed to look into epstein's cell or do the rounds, so to speak. i think that's a significant thing as well. so if they're finding that not only were you not doing your job but then you lied about it after the fact, those are the things that we're being told they're looking into, that's serious and that's something as a federal employee when you're working for the justice department, if you're told to answer questions, you need to answer questions. if you take the fifth amendment, you're allowed to do that, you don't have to incriminate yourself. but if the government says, hey, with respect to our ongoing investigations here, you have to tell us what happened, then i think when you start to cook the books and when you start to lawyer up as pete williams reported on yesterday think there there's some significant things that bear watching going forward as far as mistakes made here. yet, nothing pointing towards anybody having anything to do with epstein's death. but of course if they were monitoring him correctly maybe it wouldn't have happened. >> tom, thanks so much for that. all of this happening while

we're learning about the first civil suit being filed against his estate. it alleges maxwell and the other staffers conspired with each other to facilitate her sexual abuse a abuse and rape. she has denied accusations against her. she spoke to savannah guthrie last month about her hope for justice. >> he -- he -- he hurt me badly. i not to go through this. so, you know, this is one way for me to get justice. >> joining me now, daniel kiser, and attorney for jennifer who says she encountered maxwell outside her school when she was

14 years old and brought back to his townhouse again and again. thanks for being with us. let me ask first about how jennifer is doing and especially in the wake of the apparent jaw side of jeffrey epstein. >> well, you know, jennifer is somewhat angry that mr. epstein's no long eer alive to face justice. she was looking forward to having him account for himself in a court of law both criminally and civilly. so there's some frustration about that that he's no longer here so that she can look at him and see him face the full weight of the criminal justice system. but at the same time she's committed. she's committed to seeing this through to the end. she has a civil lawsuit that will still permit her to receive a measure of justice both from the estate of jeffrey epstein as well as, as you just remarked, the enablers that were around

him. >> given that the he will never be brought into a court of law, what does justice look like for her? >> principally two ways. one, she still has for herself the ability to sue the estate of jeffrey epstein to get compensation for the injuries that she suffered. you saw her just the tape how -- how badly she was hurt by this. she -- one of the ways in which our system delivers justice is through -- is through civil penalties. and compensation to her would be one way for her to get a measure of justice. but equally important, jennifer wants to see the enablers around him be held accountable. they could be held accountable criminally. and we hope that the criminal authorities continue to pursue that angle because there are many out there who help perpetuate this scheme, maintain it, conceal it. they should be held accountable in a court of law both criminally and civilly.

so this is -- this is the beginning of that pursuit. there are lots of other individuals who need to be -- who need to be held accountable for -- before a court. and jennifer wants to be part of that effort. >> has she been contacted about that by any authorities? >> she -- she has been contacted by -- by the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district. she was cooperating with the u.s. attorney's office in their investigation before mr. epstein's death. she has made it clear to federal authorities that she continues to be willing to cooperate going forward in any of their efforts to hold others accountable. so she is now -- she's in this for the long haul. she's committed to see justice be done, not just for herself, but for all the other victims of mr. epstein and the victims of the enablers. and that's such an important part of the story. because they were powerful, well-connected people around mr. epstein that permitted this to go on for as long as it went on

for. >> so we're talking about someone different than these three unnamed female household staff in addition to? >> well, for the purposes of our civil litigation we're also talking about ghislaine maxwell. ms. maxwell based on publicly available information, other court records help perpetuate this scheme, helped provide administrative support, was involved in the recreate meant of the recruiters. there are allegations and publicly available information that she helped maintain the secrecy of the sexual trafficking ring. for that reason she's accountable for all of its victims, not just for the victims that she personally interacted with, but for victims like jennifer who never had a conversation with ms. maxwell. but because of ms. maxwell's efforts there are scheme endured, it was kept secret, and because of that it was able to

victimize a large universe of young girls. so people like ms. maxwell have to be held accountable. >> is your client, whether herself or through you, prepared to name names? does she know who these people are? >> well, we've named ms. maxwell. i mean -- >> but beyond that? >> well -- >> that's been in the public domain for a while. i'm not diminishing that but i'm asking. >> sure. >> are there other people you talk about powerful people, you talk about these three unnamed assistants. does she know who they are and is she willing to talk about it? >> well, as far as the unnamed jane does in our case, we would name them now if we were able to identify them. but this happened a long time ago. >> yeah. >> she doesn't have the names. so we're trying to, as we speak, secure information that would help jennifer identify them. as far as anyone else is concerned, we continue to investigate that question and we may well amend the complaint in the weeks and months ahead to

name additional individuals. and the way in which we're going to approach that question is not necessarily who did jennifer have direct contact with. we are going to look at individuals who, through their effort, helped maintain the ring, helped maintain it administratively, helped perpetuate it, help keep it secret. so those individuals, in our judgment, under a conspiracy theory would have culpability to jeb fer as we jennifer as well as other victims. >> what kind of efforts are you talking about? >> i'm sorry what? >> you said, you know, through their efforts they were able to keep this alleged conspiracy going. what kinds of efforts? >> well, for example, in ms. maxwell's case, we believe that she engaged in efforts to intimidate witnesses to keep it quiet. she helped secure not just the girls themselves but helped secure the recruiters who in turn recruited the girls. we think she was involved in all of those kinds of effort based

on information we have. we make those allegations in the complaint. this is another point is that the participation in the ring. so if you're a powerful individual and you participated in the sex trafficking ring, meaning, accepted girls that were trafficked to you to abuse, you are by -- through those actions, not just participating in the ring, you're helping to maintain it 'the you're perpetuating it and you are -- you are investing yourself in a way that all of these powerful guys know that they have each other's back and they're well connected in their resource. and that alone helps perpetuate this ring and makes them coconspirators in it, not just participants. the net should be wide. i hope that the criminal authorities are looking at the case that way as well and that they should be targeting all of these individuals and finding out whether there's a factual predicate for holding them accountable based on that kind of theory of culpabilitiy and understanding that both your client and the many other women

who have said that they were the subject of abuse, rape as a result of what happened here, do you feel confident that the -- jeffrey epstein aside, that justice will be done? that the authorities are doing everything that they can do from prosecuting other people who may have been involved and getting to the bottom of what happened to jeffrey epstein in that manhattan jail cell? >> well, i am confident that based on our interactions with the southern district that they are aggressively looking at those questions as to who else was -- who else was responsible for this. as they should be. and i am confident that they're doing that. as far as the investigation into jeffrey epstein's death, we don't have any special information about that as to what the circumstances were. it's certainly our hope that they get answers to that, the timing of all of it is certainly

suspicious. but that being said, we don't know what happened to jeffrey epstein. but we're certainly -- we're certainly hopeful that the justice department and as well as the southern district in particular are looking carefully at that question. >> daniel kiser, we very much appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. and still ahead, even more stunning comments from president trump's top immigration official. how he's doubling down on his widely criticized comments about the stirring poe eminscribed on the poem inscribed on the statue of liberty. e poem inscribed on e of liberty inscribed on the stat liberty. inscribed on the statuef liberty. woman: my reputation was trashed online.

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. some historians today and a lot of others for that matter are scratching their heads after president trump's acting director of u.s. citizenship and immigration services tried to clarify his take on emma lazarus's famous statue of liberty poem. ken cuccinelli was make statements. and when questioned on npr whether that jives with the world, give me your tired, your poor, cuccinelli responded like this. >> give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet and who will not become a public charge. >> so after a bit of an uproar about that. last night on cnn cuccinelli had a chance to clarify his understanding of the pope yes, ma'am poe people becaum. here was his second attempt. >> of course that poem was

referring back to people coming from europe where they had class-based societies where people were considered wretched if they weren't in the right class. >> maria is back with me, executive producer and anchor for latino usa. gut reaction to what he just said and what you're hearing from friends about this? >> one of the most important moments in my life, chris, which is kind of weird because i'm -- i talk about my immigration story a lot. but i just realized that i actually have a tie to ellis island. i'm not going to tell the long story. but i suddenly have something in common with the people of ellis island, the immigrants. and i, for me, it was like, oh my god, wow, we really are connect lt connected. so cuccinelli doesn't understand how we immigrants feel about the things that he's saying. for us to have a relationship to ellis island is part of the american story. for him to kind of throw all immigrants of color under the bus and just be like, this has

nothing to do with you is deeply insulting. but here's what's important, chris. this is not new. actually this is a concerted effort decades long by conservative think tanks and academics to basically try to reframe the american narrative around immigration. they have been saying for a long time immigrants are not what makes this -- we're not an immigrant country. i remember the first time i heard that. i said what do you mean we're not an immigrant country? he said that's the past. that's when we were younger. that was an adolescent america. we're not an immigrant country anymore. who died and made you the person who -- >> statistically and -- it's inaccurate. completely inaccurate. we only have about 30 seconds left, but the policies that he was defending speaks to what you were saying, which is this idea of if you come to this country and you're working a minimum

wage job and you need to have food stamps to continue to better yourself, get your ged, get a degree, get a better job, you're not welcome here. >> yeah, no and the thing is there's more of people who vote for trump are the ones who are going to be getting public assistance than immigrants. it's mostly refugees that are getting that. >> people who are native born are more -- >> it's a very short time. what it does it allows them to become economicalically prosper. it's a short-term thing. let's be clear. immigrants are not coming here and saying, yes, let's go to the united states so that we can get public assistance. it's just not the way -- >> none of those people in line in mexico say that. >> they didn't even know that babies were being taken away from their moms. they still have a vision of the united states as a place that's welcoming. they don't know about this. >> so good to see you again, thank you. up next, the new law that goes into effect today, giving

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thompson who is coviering this story and mimi rocca. anne, let's start with the cases that we already know about that are filed and how this is going to work. >> they range the gamut from hospitals to school districts to obviously the catholic church, the boy scouts of america. what is going to happen is today is the first day of a year-long lookback window. the state supreme court here in new york has 45 judges who have been specially trained who are ready to deal with these cases. in fact, a dozen are here in new york city. it's going to take a long time for these people to get justice. it's not like they filed the lawsuit and they get a settlement. it will take months, even years. but they hope to do this as expeditiously as possible because for these survivors,

they have been waiting decades in some cases for someone to say, a third party to say you were harmed and these are the people that harmed you. that's what they're looking for. >> it's important to be able at this -- even if not always at any point to be able to have someone say you are believed now. having said that realistically, what are the legal hurdles? what immediately comes to mind is that memories fade, people die. contemporaneous witnesses may or may not want to speak. what are the challenges for cases that are decades old? realistically is this the big step forward that it sounds like it could be? >> i think it is. i think it's so important. you mentioned some of the hurdles and those are certainly true. these won't be easy cases to bring. people need lawyers who are, you know, trained and have

experience with these types of cases. but i will say one reason it's so important is that these are about bringing civil cases. and the burden of proof in civil cases is different, the rules of evidence are different. you don't have the same sort of level of hurdles you would have in a criminal case. for example, you know, rape statutes, child exploitation, those were changed for most state and federal cases back in like, 2006. those are really hard cases to bring later in life. because the burden of proof, understandably, is much harder because we're talking about taking away someone's freedom as a result of a conviction. in a civil suit, they're going to have sort of more options available in terms of what kinds of evidence is admissible. the burden of proof as i said is lower. the judges are going to be trained in understanding the problems repressed memory and

why these cases are being brought now as apposed to before. it takes a while for people to be able to come forward specifically with these types of cases. so i think it's really important. it's not a substitute for criminal prosecutions, which need to be brought in close as time as possible, again, with good reason. it's a supplement to it and it's an important one that i think will bring victims some kind of justice, especially if there was no criminal prosecutions. >> in the end, anne -- i know you over the years have talked to a lot of these survivors. we only have a few seconds left. what are they telling you about how important this is to them personally? >> it means everything. because over the years they have been accused of lying when -- >> repeatedly. >> now somebody is going to say -- a judge is going to say you were not a liar. and that's what they want.

>> anthat's going to wrap up th hour of "msnbc live." "andrea mitchell reports" starts right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," a crack in the ice. the white house and key senators are working quietly on a possible compromise on background checks. in florida, 18 months after the parkland tragedy, police and the families of the victims issue a heartfelt warning. >> everybody needs to know it can happen anywhere, anytime, anyplace and at the hands of anybody. >> coming up, fred gutenberg who daughter was killed at marjorie stoneman douglas will join me. a top trump immigration official defends his rewrite of the emma lazarus' poem on the statue of liberty saying it should read give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet. >> that poem was referring back to people coming from europe er