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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  August 15, 2019 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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thank you. i'm ali velshi. we begin with israel's unprecedented move as andrea was just talking about announcing it is going to block two american democratic congresswomen from entering the country ahead of a planned visit this sunday. israel's deputy foreign minister confirmed on israeli state radio that the country had decided that representatives ilhan omar and rashida tlaib who are outspoken critics of israel will not be allowed to enter. benjamin netanyahu consulted with aides earlier today. >> before the announcement president trump tweeted this. it would show great weakness if israel allowed rep omar and tlaib to visit. explain what in the world is going on here. >> so the israeli government essentially and now we have the prime minister's official statement came out and said that representatives ilhan omar and rashida tlaib were not going to be given entry to come into israel and the occupied palestinian territories. these two members of congress, freshmen members of congress,
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were doing what 70 other members of congress actually did just over the past two weeks which is go to israel on what is often called a fact finding mission for incoming freshman members of congress. they go on the ground and see the conflict up close and this trip traditionally a congressional delegation, in this case is usually sponsored by aipac or other associations or organizations in which they bring them, meet with the israeli government officials, meet with palestinian government officials, see first hand the situation on the ground. they didn't want to go on this aipac sponsored trip. they wanted to go on their own. they were trying to do this with the help of other palestinian organizations to go to the israeli/palestinian territories and not meet with any government official on both sides. they weren't supposed to meet with israeli government officials. they also were not supposed to meet with any palestinian government officials. they kind of wanted just to speak to ordinary people on the ground and meet with human rights organizations on both sides to get a sense of the situation. they have been very outspoken critics of israel, championed
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bds supported -- >> that is the important -- bds -- the boycott di vestment and sanctions movement. an international move of activists, social society organizations saying because of the ongoing occupation israel has of the palestinian territories and the fact the two state solution, the peace process failed to ensure palestinian rights, it is up to businesses, governments, academics, entertainers, to boycott israel in certain parts meaning the occupied territories. any company or government agency that is benefiting from the occupation should be boycotted. in so doing, they want to try to leverage israel into ending the occupation of the palestinian people and palestinian territories to give them -- >> and the israelis say if you support bds that is grounds for not getting a visa. >> that is grounds for not getting a visa. supporters of the israeli government position say, and there are many among american lawmakers and even state legislators, they describe bds as anti-semitic because it only
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targets the state of israel. they say it is an existential threat to the state of israel and by doing so they can't support it. it goes beyond the issue of free speech for them. it has been challenged in american courts. we are going way deep into the nuances but it is important to understand because the way a lot of people are positioning this is it is about free speech. you have two american members of congress who are saying they take a certain policy position to try to end an ongoing conflict that's been going for decades. that is their freedom of speech the way they are describing it. the israeli government is saying based on that specific opinion we are not going to let you in and you can see the reaction pouring in from democratic presidential candidates, members of congress, even aipac saying we disagree fundamentally. >> aipac doesn't share probably a single view with them as it relates to israel. even they said this is a wrong decision. >> at the end of the day israel puts itself as the only democracy in the middle east it says that it is open, a
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pluralistic society where they tolerate these points of views and positions and there is a little bit of irony in this because inside of israel and inside of the occupied palestinian territories, which israel controls, and this is the most important part, this demonstrates that israel controls all of the lives of the people who are in that territory to the degree that they can deny who comes in and out of the palestinian territories including rashida tlaib whose family still lives there. >> here is the interesting part about this. it would be one thing if people said, hey look. you've been saying nasty things about portugal so you don't get to go visit portugal. with israel this is specific because if your issue is with israel and its occupation of the palestinian territories and you'd like to go on a fact finding mission to understand the palestinian territories you can't do that without israel's entry visa. you can't do it without israeli permission. >> that is the reality of what occupation means. you have to -- let's say ilhan omar and rashida tlaib wanted to do this without involving israel. they still can't. if they wanted to go to the jordanian side at some point they have to cross into the west bank and that means they have to
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come in contact with the israeli military which ultimately decides who gets to and doesn't get to enter. in doing so you kient of snd oft a lot of palestinian organizations complain about. which is it is a fallacy to think the palestinian authority or any other entity controls the lives of those palestinian people in the territories other than the state of israel. they make the ultimate decision about who comes in, who doesn't come in, what they see, what they don't see when they're on the ground. the complaint they've been making, congresswoman omar and tlaib is that historically members of congress would go on these fact finding missions and are presented just one perspective of the conflict so it tends to skew sometimes american foreign policy. they were trying to break away from that to get a different perspective. ultimately they're not granted that opportunity. >> the israeli government said no at the request of the u.s. president which in itself is unprecedented. >> to have an american president side with a foreign government against two members of an american congress, coequal branch of government, i'm not good in history but i think it
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is pretty unprecedented. >> thanks very much. amazing. we've got breaking 2020 news. former colorado governor john hickenlooper just officially announced he is ending his 2020 presidential campaign. he made the announcement on twitter, saying this. while this campaign did not have the outcome we were hoping for, every moment has been worth while and i am thankful to everyone who supported this campaign and our entire team. the self-proclaimed moderate candidate has struggled to break above 1% in national polls and now hickenlooper is widely believed to be weighing a senate run against republican senator cory gardner in his home state. i spoke to a source very close to john hickenlooper last night who did say today they were most likely going to be pulling out and while he said it in the statement and i heard it last night, he said a lot of coloradoans are saying, run for senate. last night michael bennett, a current senator from the state of colorado, was on msnbc with
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lawrence o'donnell. he seed to know what john hickenlooper's plans were but michael bennett said we would love it if he ran in colorado. >> he is well regarded in colorado. >> when he left office, he was the mayor of denver and the governor of colorado. when he left office as governor he had the same approval rating at the end as he did in the beginning. and while his centrist views didn't necessarily -- weren't necessarily going to get him there as far as a presidential primary, criticized for not being far enough to the left, his views are widely reflected in the state of colorado. i think there is a very good chance he runs. >> and he owned his place as a moderate. he wasn't trying to present to do something else. he said that that is a good place in his opinion, a healthy place for the democratic party to be. >> he got booed for it. >> he got booed for it. he is a guy who stood by his principles. we interviewed him many times. he is a thoughtful ks considerate politician. he was well regarded as you said in colorado. >> all right. in just a minute we'll speak to another 2020 contender who is also a centrist this one from
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the state of ohio. tim ryan will be with us. the markets recovering today after suffering the worst day of the year on wednesday. the dow, which dropped 800 points yesterday, 3%, now stands -- we're up about 83, 84 points. and it's up one-third of a percent today. you can see since this morning this has been a weird day for the dow. up, down, up, down. >> remember, the market is just looking for direction and stability. things have been very skittish and confusing coming out of the white house. this has all been about trade whether you're talking the ceo of goldman sachs or economists across the board. >> right. >> it's the trade war that's causing us to potentially causing us to tip into recession or lack of clarity. >> correct. both of those. and they are different things and are both at play here. joining us now is s&p's chief global economist. generally speaking when you look at the economy at large it is doing okay.
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we still got low unemployment, still creating jobs, at a slightly slower space than we were. there are pockets of problems in the united states. why are markets spooked? >> well, markets are forward thinkers and what they're watching of course is what's happening with the trade war i guess you could call it. it swings back and forth from the white house and also in beijing and causing markets to respond. we've seen already that the yield curve has been inverted, the 10 to 3 month has been inverted for now since may. i realize that correlation is not causation but the signal is there and i certainly advise them not to ignore it. you did point out the domestic side of the equation is holding up relatively well in the united states but we are starting to see some of the international, the trade escalations starting to feed into business sentiment and also in investment. that, also, is something that spooks the markets as well. >> let's talk about economies around the world. you've got nine other countries. germany, uk, italy, singapore, south korea, russia, all
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potentially facing a pending recession as well. that being the case, how fragile economies are around the world, how much is that contributing? >> to the market response? >> yes. >> i would say, i would think they're certainly not turning a blind eye to that. i think the focus is largely on the u.s. and china trade dispute. keep in mind, that those other countries are also impacted by the u.s./china dispute as well. we have a significant amount of supply chains that go through many routes and, indeed, a lot of winners and losers in this fight. >> but, ultimately, what's going to tip us into a recession? we are ten years into an expansion. ten years and two months into an expansion. that is pushing at the outer limits of how long an expansion goes between recessions. is there a recession that is due to happen regardless and our concerns about whether we get into it too fast or it becomes too deep because of the trade war? >> well, already we're seeing the u.s. expansion slow. we have already, you know, it
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was close to 3% last year. it is slowing down to we have it probably now 2.5% but could even be under that in terms of gdp growth and slowing further in 2020 to 1.8%. if you're tacking on the trade -- the tariffs for example, that already shaves off maybe about at the max probably about 45 basis points. that brings us now to 1.3%. that is just the direct cost. then you add the indirect cost to basically the so-called crisis of confidence. that is when businesses start to shut their pocketbooks. unfortunately we're starting to see that as well. so that's the worry we have probably going into 2020. the risk of recession is certainly on the rise. >> what if it works out? the argument that president trump and his policies are the it's so crazy it just might work? we're not sliding another 800 today because of that statement we got from china last night where they might be willing to meet the president half way. if we do get a trade deal out of this, how much of a massive win
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will that be? >> let's see what the, you know, what the deal would be. our worry of course is that could we see a short-term solution? basically everybody throws money at the problem and, you know, we can say okay. we all walk away as winners. but the long-term issues are there. i don't know if they've been addressed. for example, are we going to see a level playing field in china to both domestic and foreign firms? i don't know if that's been addressed. another factor is bilateral, reciprocal trading, basically investment opportunities. i don't know if that's been addressed. and of course the very well known now ip protection or protection of intellectual property. have those issues been addressed? i'm not sure and i think that will mean this is going to be a long-term concern. >> good to see you. thank you for joining us, s&p global's chief economist. next, the democratic race for president is changing now that john hickenlooper has announced he is out of the 2020 race. we'll speak with another
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contender who has just two weeks left to make the debate stage. tim ryan joins us live. ve johnson & johnson is a baby company. but we're also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you.
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welcome back to "velshi and ruhle" following breaking news. former colorado governor john hickenlooper just announced he is ending his 2020 presidential campaign. >> joining us now is another 2020 contender, democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio. congressman, welcome. john hickenlooper is out.
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many people said one of the reasons he struggled is he was centrist and outspoken about the fact that he is centrist. you are also centrist and you're polling at 1%. what does john hickenlooper's departure from the race tell you about what your party's voters want? >> well, i think it opens it up. i think biden is holding a certain ground there but i think people are looking for someone else. the vast majority of the party, steph, is not way to the left. i mean, i'd say 70% to 75% of democrats are looking for somebody who is going to talk about the economy, talk about middle class, talk about the skills gap we have. that there are good paying jobs out there but we got to get people in them. really focusing on the economic anxiety that's out there. that's what i've been doing. we've had the best two weeks of my campaign money wise, attention wise, crowd wise, so we're just going to keep going
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and the more people get to know me the more they are interested in helping out. >> you don't have to change your game though? seriously. you got two weeks left to get on the stage. it has to be more than just there's more people, they're happier, there's more noise. you got to bring it. >> well, i mean, it's still early. bill clinton did not get into the race until october. here it is august and the field is already being in some ways artificially winnowed by the democratic national committee. so, i mean, i think people on the ground are still looking, still interested. they want the economic message. they want someone who can win ohio, pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. i'm that guy. donald trump does not want to run against me and talk about the economy. he is trying to distract us. he is the distractor-in-chief on all of these other issues. i've been the candidate focused on the economy. i will continue to focus on the economy. i've been saying it is not working and we've seen it the last couple days. i'm going to hold his feet to the fire because he said he was
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going to open up the steel mills and coal mines and we've seen factories close here in my community. he is not going to get away with that with me and i think people want someone who is going to play offense be aggressive, and go after him on the economy. that's why we're getting the support we're getting now. anybody who wants a part of this campaign that will take trump down it's tim ryan for show up. give us some money. let's build this up and take this guy down. >> what is interesting, president trump won your state and you said the economy is what he touted but he's not talking about the economy very much these days. he's talking about the cultural divide. something that actually helped him win, this argument that democrats care about them. i care about us. when you travel the country that economic and social insecurity, are people still hearing the president's message and is it resonating? >> it's not resonating. the shine is off the apple. when you cut taxes for the top
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1%, when you make erratic decisions on trade that are completely wrecking rural america in places like iowa, when you are, you know, taking care of the wealthy class whether it's waivers for ethanol or deregulation or anything else or trying to weaken unions. all of these are cutting against what he -- >> he cares about americans -- what are voters telling you about that sentiment? >> people care about their own wallet and their own struggles. i think if we can have a candidate that is talking to them about their economic issues, they're going to say, trump is telling me the economy is going really well and he's distracting us on all these issues around immigration that are fallsies. most immigrants can't get benefits yet he is talking like they can. and that's the reality of it. he is trying to distract. so we have to make sure we're very clear to say, one, he's full of it.
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undocumented people, hb1 visa people, dreamers, they cannot get benefits. so stop it. let's talk about helping working class people whether they're white, black, or brown, and being able to make it in the united states of america. >> going to get your response to this piece of news, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has decided to block two of your house colleagues from entering israel at the request of president trump which separately is a weird thing that the president asked a foreign government to stop two members of congress from getting into their country but what is your take on this? >> i think it is absolutely ridiculous. i think it is president trump getting completely unhinged because the looming recession is making him mad. we saw it yesterday. he's beating up the fed. now he is trying to distract on this issue with israel. i think the fact that netanyahu would empower him on this is
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completely ridiculous. i thought it was ridiculous when he came to speak in the united states congress when barack obama had a position that he was trying to hold and yet was undermined by the republicans in congress when they invited him to speak. so for him to just, you know, be a lap dog to donald trump i think is completely irresponsible. those are two members of the united states congress. even organizations here in the united states who are associated with israel are saying they should be allowed in the country. and i think it's just further dividing us, the country needs to heal. but i think underneath all of this is the fact that this recession is looming and trump is going to do everything in his power to distract the american people from the real discussions and the real decisions we need to be making here at home. >> you mentioned the state of iowa. let's talk for a moment about congressman steve king, who for years has said things that many people consider offensive, inappropriate, out of touch.
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but his most recent where he suggests that humanity would not exist or wouldn't be a population without rape or incest. what do you make of these comments? >> i don't even know what to think about that. i heard that and i thought what in god's name is he even talking about? this is unfortunately par for the course for steve king. i think he should have been removed from congress when he was making those racist remarks months ago. i was one of the ones pushing hard for that. they stripped him of his committees. he should not be a member of the united states congress. this is a distraction. we need to get back on the focus of what -- >> this is the guy he's always been and he's not backing down. is this not about, i don't know, mitch mcconnell, president trump, leadership and the republican party to say, steve, it's your time.
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>> yeah, well, this is what they do. because steve king talks very similarly as donald trump talks. talking about othering people, invasions, all of these things that trump talks about. they are very much aligned with what steve king says and mitch mcconnell has lost his spine in the last few years to donald trump, too, so he is collapsing and folding like a cheap suit. there is nobody here to discipline anybody. this is why the republic -- why as a democrat you actually want a strong, vary ill unite based republican party. it is good for the institutions of government. >> to have a real debate. >> there is no real debate. there is no one who is going to smack their own member who is getting out of line. this is -- i want to try to bring this country together, to heal this country. i'm making proposals that are actually going to be able to pass around the economy, around education, around regenerative
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agriculture. we need to heal the country, get out of this left/right divide, and move into a new and better system, new and better discussions, new and better institutions. go to tim ryan for help me out. we can do this if we can heal the country and start focusing on the issues that the american people are thinking about not all these distractions. >> tim ryan, what happens if you don't make the debate stage? >> we're going to keep going. i mean, we have, honestly, the best two weeks of my campaign since we started in april. we rocked it on the soap box in iowa, at the iowa state fair, had, by almost all accounts one of the best speeches there, one of the best speeches at the wing ding dinner the night before with about 2,000 people. we're picking up joe biden supporters in south carolina. we have his cochair representative fletcher smith who was his cochair in 2008 has now endorsed me. brandon brown and others down in south carolina. we're making a move.
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we got three great endorsements in manchester, new hampshire. dan o'neil the president of the board of aldermen there who is the highest vote getter and has been for a long time, in manchester, new hampshire has endorsed us and two other very popular aldermen. we are picking up steam on the ground. that's why i'm saying i need a little more time because when people hear me they like what i have to say. they want to help. they're sending us money. and we're moving. so i'm not going to let some artificial debate standard that doesn't play to somebody talking about bringing the country together and moving forward limit me. like i said, bill clinton didn't get in until october. we'll keep making a good run at this. if we lose momentum we lose momentum but we got more now than we ever had. >> good luck to you. thanks. hey, tim, what was the best thing you ate at the iowa state fair? >> well, the root beer float, it was so hot the root beer float but it was actually the bush light draft beer that i had when it was about a hundred degrees.
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>> busch light draft beer. >> i haven't had a busch light since college. >> america, tim ryan just told you who he was. >> good to see you, congressman. thank you for joining us. >> thanks. thank you. >> the light draft beer. tremendous. >> i tell you, i went to the iowa state fair probably ten years ago. >> you must have lost your mind eating. >> i lost my mind. >> was that before or after gluten? >> it was pregluten. >> oh, my gosh. >> i don't think there is a gluten free iowa state fair. >> a deep fried ali velshi. we have new details from jeffrey epstein's autopsy report. what that tells us about his mysterious death on the other side. woman 1: this... woman 2: ...this... man 1: ...this is my body of proof. man 2: proof of less joint pain... woman 3: ...and clearer skin. man 3: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 4: ...with humira. woman 5: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain,
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there are new questions today about the death of registered sex offender jeffrey epstein. an autopsy showed multiple breaks in epstein's neck bones including a broken hyoid bone. why does that matter? a person familiar with the matter tells nbc this. >> dr. john torres says this kind of break can happen in both strangulation and hanging but happens, occurs more often in strangulation. separately, in the wake of
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epstein's death there is increased scrutiny of epstein's long-time associate ghislain maxwell and what role she played in epstein's alleged crimes involving the sex trafficking of minors. maxwell has denied any wrongdoing and her current whereabouts remain unclear. joining us now investigative reporter with "the washington post" aaron davis who first broke this story on epstein. help us understand this. our own medical correspondent says that the hyoid bones are broken in about one-third of strangulations and 25% of hangings. what does epstein's situation tell you? >> well, as we reported, this hyoid bone was broken and this is a bone so people can picture it about the size of a pinky finger kind of curled up. and over time as you get older it becomes more brittle. but it is more rare for it to be broken in a suicide or hanging than it is in a strangulation or homicide. this now stands as a piece of
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evidence in conflict with everything else we've been told publicly about the way mr. epstein was found that by all accounts appeared to be suicide early on. now it will be incumbent upon investigators to square this with everything else including how was he found? was the noose wrapped tightly enough to cause this kind of pressure to break this bone? was he hanging in a way where he could have propelled himself or fallen enough to create the force necessary to break this bone and likely to break this bone? all of these questions become more important and all the environmental issues of where he was found, the position, what he used, puts more of an onus on the videotape and other circumstantial evidence surrounding it. >> we're going to get a report, official statement from the medical examiner. i assume they're taking this all into consideration. when do we expect to hear from them? are they going to make that determination as to whether it was a suicide or something else? >> well, it usually is their responsibility to make that determination. that is here in washington, d.c. and the surrounding areas.
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i know from covering a past jail house death in the washington region that this kind of a piece of evidence, broken hyoid, can significantly delay that final ruling that we had in d.c., an alleged cop killer who showed up strangled, looked like a suicide in jail. the medical examiner because of the hyoid ruled it a homicide two days later and then there was months of back and forth and re-enactments inside the jail cell and a whole bunch of investigation that went into it before it was confirmed as a homicide. that one still remains a mystery. some people believe he was killed. others believe it was a suicide. they could never bring anyone to justice or charge anyone in the case. this could be a piece of conflicting evidence that will always either stand in conflict to the suicide or this pushes the investigation further to analyze that question of homicide. >> thank you for your reporting. aaron davis an investigative reporter for "the washington post."
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thank you. next republican congressman steve king has a disturbing history of controversial statements. we'll break down his latest comments about rape and incest and we'll also dig deep to see how a politician like this can still thrive in our country. you're watching "velshi and ruhle." this was me before liberty mutucustomized
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king of iowa to resign. king made controversial comments again, questioning if humanity would exist without rape or incest at an event in his home state on wednesday. here is what he said. listen carefully. >> we know the reason is why for rape and incest. because it is not the baby's fault. what if it was okay and what if we went back through all the family trees and just pulled out people who were products of rape and incest? would there be any population of the world left if we did that considering all of the wars and all the rape and pillage that's taken place and whatever happened to culture? i know i can't certify that i'm not part of a product of that. >> king, a very outspoken opponent of abortion, was defending legislation he backed that would not allow exceptions to the procedure. it's not the first time we've heard disturbing comments like this from congressman king. he has said things like in the past, quote, mixing cultures will not lead to a higher
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quality of life but a lower one. white nationalist, white supremacist, western civilization, how did that language become offensive? and how about this one? profiling has always been an important component of legitimate law enforcement. if you can't profile someone, you can use those common sense indicators that are before your very eyes. he also said this about dreamers back in 2013. >> they aren't all valedictorians. they weren't all brought in by their parents. for every one who is a valedictorian there are another hundred out there that weigh 130 pounds and they've got calves the size of cantaloupes because they're hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert. those people would be legalized with the same act. joining us now princeton university professor eddie glaub and trymaine lee who recently wrote an article titled a vast wealth gap driven by segregation, redlining,
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evictions, and exclusion divides white and black america. we'll discuss that in a moment. >> congressman king, his most recent statement isn't new. but it is still in line with racist statements, claims about our culture and society that simply aren't true. what does it tell you about the republican party or the state of iowa that this man keeps getting elected? he is pushing this, there is a war on white america, when we all know that's not the case. three, one, two, three ceos of all the fortune 500 companies are black. who is allowing this narrative to go forward? >> let's simply say steven king is a -- >> we need to understand what that word means first. >> he's in a cave. you know, he, basically his
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knuckles are dragging the ground as it were. i want to say this. even though we can understand him or view him as a despicable human being, what he is suggesting here is something that cuts deep. that is that, you know, patriarchy runs rampant in this country. there's a group of folks out here who believe they can control women's wombs, that the understanding of the reproduction of the nation has everything to do with controlling women's desires. it's an exercise of male power that we need to understand that would lead him to draw those sorts of conclusions. i would say this in response to the other part of your question. the lie steven king perpetuates is part of a broader lie that has often and for a long time guided and organized the way our society works. we believe a whole host of things about people, black people, a whole host of things about women, black women in particular. a whole host of things about immigrants, particularly immigrants of color that in some ways justify our cruelty.
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because if we didn't believe that, we would have to then confront what we're actually doing. that would then condemn us as immoral and in a very profound sense. >> your piece gets at a little bit of this. you've written, quote, today's racial wealth gap is perhaps the most glaring legacy of american slavery and the violent, economic dispossession that followed. walk us through the data that you found that backs this up. >> the numbers are quite astounding actually. the median income for white families is $171,000 and for black folks just $17,000. >> say it one more time. i don't want this to get lost. one more time. it's on the screen. >> the median income for white households is $171,000. for blacks it's $17,000. black folks make up 13% of the population but only hold 3% of the wealth. for every $100 white families have black families have, listen to this, $5.04. as astounding as those numbers are as professor glaude mentioned this long history, it's been driven by violence,
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economic terror, quite frankly murder and plunder. for generations there was a campaign to rid communities of black faux. when black folks did finally get a step up their homes were destroyed and people were driven out of communities and the rightful heirs never received the property. wealth is in home ownership. not a driver. it is the wealth. black folks for so long were denied this. we go to some of his racist statements, the ideas of white supremacy that drove the gap as wide as it is now. >> it is an interesting situation, eddie. we have for whatever reason a greater realization of this stuff trymaine is outlining. people are understanding wealth is just not there in african-american communities and it goes back not just to slavery but after that to reconstruction. this has been deliberate and active and people have profited from keeping african-americans and people of color poor in this country. that is not something the republican party is struggling to reckon with at this point. >> absolutely. i mean, the republican party, and some people in the democratic party we want to say
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just simply that is the past. the fact that public policy, social norms somehow justified violence and produced in some way these outcomes hasn't been, in some ways, ali, it's conceded but it's not really believed. because there is still a discourse of culture pathology. there's still a discourse of choices that we make that people of color make that have produced these outcomes. there is still a discourse of victimology. when black people talk like this, when women talk like this, they're really playing the victim. in some way trying to extort white america of goods without actually earning it, without demonstrating merit. so underneath the data is this long standing discourse about black people in particular that justifies and justifies white supremacy in its actions day in and day out. people will concede on one hand
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but they really aren't conceding it at all. in some ways this is hit right on the head. we believe in truth and reconciliation but he thinks it's sequential. we have to at least acknowledge the truth first before we can have reconciliation. that's the first difficult thing. >> isn't much of the anger that we're seeing rising from that forgotten voter or the working class misdirected? because in the last few years it's this idea that, you know, they care about them not us and whether it is the idea that immigrants are stealing our jobs or the rise in people from diverse communities or the support that they get, when, in fact, if you actually look at where the divide is all of those who say the american dream is not achievable for me, it's not immigrants or the diverse community. from 1978 to 2018, ceo compensation grew nearly 1,000% while worker compensation grew 12%. so, trymaine, i understand the
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anger from people who say, my kids aren't even getting the opportunities i could. >> but they're mad at the wrong people. >> aren't they? the people they should be mad at are the people at the absolute -- >> not blacks, not gays, not asians. >> ceo pay up 1,000%. worker pay 12%. i get where that anger comes from. >> but none of that matters as long as there's the black bogey man there, right? there is something owed to you and you have to find someone to turn to and blame for it as opposed to as you say the system itself. >> you have to keep telling the truth. >> exactly. the truth was, as the heart and soul of the proejt states, the founding fathers knew they were lying when they said all men are created equal because a fifth of the population was enslaved so the reframing of the truth. many people are blissfully naive. some folks have been miseducated from the beginning but the premise of equality has been based on this lie. we need to look at the truth of the founding of the country, the reason the gaps exist and look at capitalism and the bigger
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machine and then we can get to this. until we understand the truth of who we actually are we aren't going to make any moves. >> our founding fathers were all similar waged white guy land owners. >> and thomas jefferson who we love, the more you dig into this, pretty vile stuff. i mean, pretty bad as we should know. >> guys, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. this is a good discussion that needs to continue and we will continue to have it on this show. president trump, he says americans don't pay for his policies. for facts' sake. we sure do. we'll break down who is footing the bill for the wall, his trade wars, and other trump promises. you're watching "velshi and ruhle." ♪ ♪
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president trump continually claims americans don't foot the bill for his policies, but for act sake, that's just not true. let's start off with one of his first and biggest campaign promises, the border wall. here's who was supposed to pay for that. >> i will build a great, great wall on our southern border and i will have mexico pay for that wall. mark my words.
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are you ready? are you ready? who is going to pay for the wall? >> mexico. >> who? >> mexico. oh, we're ready and we're going to mark your words. just last month, the president bragged about a big win at the supreme court. you know what that was about, the court ruled that he can use pentagon money, your tax dollars, to pay for the wall. mexico's checkbook, it's as closed as your local block buster. and speak of tax dollars, as republicans push their 2017 corporate tax bill, the president claimed it would be a windfall for the middle class. treasury secretary steven mnuchin even said the cuts, they would pay for themselves. watch this. >> not only will this pay for itself, but it will pay down debt. >> a major tax cut, we are going to be putting in and our studying very deeply right now, around the clock, a major tax cut for middle income people.
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not for business at all. for middle income people. >> we never got that tax cut from middle income people. besides the deficit ballooning in the wake of the cuts, take a look at this. new irs numbers show that in 2018, the agency collected nearly $100 billion more in individual taxes before refunds than it did in 2017. even accounting for refunds. the agency still netted billions more from individuals in 2018 than 2017. that means no tax cut for us. meanwhile, the businesses that he said would not benefit, well, the irs collected about $76 billion less in taxes from them. and those tariffs on chinese goods, president trump insists americans do not pay for those. >> and don't let them tell you, the fact is china devalues their currencies. they poor money into their
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system. they -- they pour money into their system. they pour it in. because they do that, you're not paying for those tariffs, china is paying for those tariffs. >> the tariffs are not being paid for by our people. it's being paid for by china. >> not true. and just this week, in the face of deadlines to put more tariffs, the president finally acknowledged the simple economic reality. >> we're doing this for christmas season, just in case some of the tariffs would have an impact on u.s. customers. so far they have had virtually none, but just in case they might have an impact on people, what we have done is we have delayed it so they won't be relevant for christmas shopping. >> tariffs. also known as import taxes, u.s. importers pay, and pass it on to you and me, the u.s. consumer. >> it's silly to think they don't. companies make a profit on this. they're not going to actually hold on to the pay the extra tariffs and not passing it on to
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consumers. president continues to say this, and i guess there are people who continue to believe the president. it's just a lie. we're digging into the markets with today's big question, is president trump his own worst enemy, look at the sharp drop it has taken in the last half hour. we'll have more on the other side. you're watching msnbc. th oer side you're watching msnbc. johnson & johnson is a baby company.
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thanks for watching velshi and ruhle, i'm going to see you back here at 3:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m.
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>> i'll see you back here tomorrow at 9. you can listen or watch on siriusxm radio, the msnbc app or apple tv. we hand off to our dear friend, colleague, and musical theory enthusiast. >> yes, in the commercial break. >> thank you so much both of you. i'm chris jansing, 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00 p.m. in new york. president trump today trying to do damage control as the dow is struggling to recover following the worst day of trading this year. we've seen a drop just in the last half hour. trump continuing to take credit for positive indicators but when it comes to the massive losses in the stock market, he's blaming china. >> the economy is phenomenal right now. with a normalized interest rate, we're doing phenomenal. we had a couple of bad days, but we're going to have some very good days. we had to t


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