twitter @mitchellreports. >> thank you. have a great afternoon. hi everybody. it's tuesday, august 20th. coming up this hour on "velshi and ruhle" -- >> i think it should be velshi and stephanie ruhle. andrea said it first. we'll go with that. >> deal. presidential hopeful joe biden is growing his lead over the democratic field in brand new polling while one candidate is suffering a crushing drop. we've got the numbers. >> plus, boosting the economy with signs of a slowdown ahead what the trump administration is reportedly doing to try to ease concerns about another downturn. an msnbc exclusive the biggest known spender of pro trump ads on facebook other than the trump campaign itself is linked to a group the chinese government calls a cult. we are now just 23 days out from the next democratic presidential debate. today all eyes are on former vice president joe biden, who has the clear lead across national polls going into round

three. >> but he still has to go up against nine other opponents. this morning former secretary of housing and urban development julian castro qualifying as the tenth democratic candidate to be on that stage in houston. let's bring in msnbc national political correspondent steve kornacki with new numbers. >> first, is there a cut-off date? do you have to reach the criterion by a certain date? >> excellent question and the answer is august 28th. we're basically in the last week. that's why one of the reasons why this new poll, this is from our buddies over at cnn, why this is so important. it is part of the criteria the dnc is using to decide who gets to be on that stage for the next debate in september. you mentioned julian castro by getting 2% in this poll that hits the magic number. you need to have 2% in four polls by august 28th. so he was coming within one week of the deadline. he hits the number in this poll. he joins the stage. the big question mark over the next week plus heading to that august 28th deadline, the name

tom steyer. tom steyer the billionaire has reached the donor threshold you need to make the stage. he's got three polls where he hits 2%. if he had hit 2% in this poll he would be on his way. he did not. he needs another poll to come out in the next week. we don't know if there is going to be. he needs one more in the next week and needs to be at 2%. otherwise he doesn't get the debate ticket. >> to that point, you got to get there by august 28th. how many polls are expected between now and then? >> we don't know. >> my goodness. >> a lot of outlets. we could be sitting here august 27th and at 2:00 in the afternoon oh, my goodness monmouth is releasing a poll and if somebody hits 2% -- it is a world we haven't lived in before. that's the suspension when it comes to the debates. as you mentioned the other highlights, kamala harris, remember, after the first debate, in this poll she surged within fave points of joe biden. she is now 24 points behind joe biden. a precipitous drop for kamala

harris. a sort of return to baseline for joe biden. we've seen him there all year. elizabeth warren. we've been talking about her slowly, steadily rising but in this maybe there is a question whether she is hitting a bit of a plateau. we can quickly show you this liberal versus moderate divide among liberals. warren in first place. biden not even leading. moderates and conservatives. biden not just leading. he is cleaning up. look at elizabeth warren barely registering in the single digits. >> wow. okay. we have eight more days to go to see who makes it on that stage. there are ten at the moment. >> so steier yer is the big quen mark. tulsi gabbard hitting 2% in this poll, that gives her two. >> got it. >> if she can hit 2% in two polls over the next eight days you could punch a ticket for her. >> do you know if she made the donor threshold? >> yes. the question for her becomes polling. there are a couple other candidates. i think jay inslee is one of

them. marianne williamson. they've hit the donor threshold but zero of the polling. >> john delaneys, michael bennetts. >> not there. not there. >> very interesting. >> in that case -- >> unless three more polls come out. >> and in each of those polls they need to do something they haven't done in a single poll in the last month. so really steyer, maybe gabbard. that's sort of your cut line right now heading into the next debate. >> do you know why steve kornacki is here today? >> because he's amazing. >> because i read the greatest thing ever on my sheet. steve kornacki, the go-to guy for poll data for msnbc. the go-to guy. >> i'll take it. >> good to see you, steve. right now former vice president joe biden back on the trail this time campaigning in des moines, iowa just one of the cities airing the first six bigger tv ad buys of biden's 2020 bid. >> joe biden is running for president with a plan for america's future to build on obama care not scrap it.

to make a record investment in america's schools. to lead the world on climate. to rebuild our alliances. most of all, he'll restore the soul of the nation. >> joining us now msnbc correspondent garrett haake. we're talking about joe biden and the other democratic contenders in that ad right there he is running against trump. >> reporter: that's right, steph. it is a case of joe biden and everyone else right now and all the polling, he had been off the trail for a week on vacation then doing fundraising and while he had been off the story lines had not been particularly good for him. there were stories about his gaffes from the last time he was in iowa, our own nbc/"wall street journal" poll over the weekend showed a pretty significant drop in his over all favorability rating which is not a good thing you want to see when no one is running negative ads against you, sort of all self-generated. really in the last 24 hours a bit of momentum for the former vice president. that k that cnn poll showed him way out

in front nationally. and proof that all the fundraising he has been doing can be put to good use. the thing about that ad it is making a very explicit argument about electability. that has been joe biden's hallmark all through the campaign and yesterday his wife campaigning in new hampshire laid it out on the table, this electability argument joe biden has been making. it's worth a listen. check it out. >> i know not all of you are committed to my husband. and i respect that. but i want you to think about your candidate, his or her electability, and who's going to win this race. you know, a lot of times i say, oh, you know, polls don't mean anything. polls don't mean anything. but if they're consistent and consistently saying the same thing, i think you can't dismiss that. >> reporter: not exactly an emotional rallying cry there by dr. biden but, guys, it lines up very much with what i hear from

voters in all of the states i've been visiting, which is at the end of the day democrats really do want someone who can beat donald trump and the polling continues to show that biden has the broadest path to doing that. >> all right. garrett, thanks very much. garrett haake in des moines, iowa. with signs of an economic slowdown on the horizon, a new word the trump administration is considering yet another way to boost the economy. on monday "the washington post" reported that the white house was considering cutting payroll tax to temporarily increase americans' take home pay and in turn goose consumer spending. >> according to "the new york post" the talks are still in the early stages and included a range of other tax breaks. shortly after the story broke a white house official responded, quote, as larry kudlow said yesterday more tax cuts for the american people are certainly on the table but cutting payroll taxes is not something under consideration at this time. >> joining us now cnbc editor at

large john harwood and "l.a. times" white house reporter eli stoke els. john to you first. larry kudlow in the past specifically 2011 was highly critical of the payroll tax, saying it didn't work. whether it is the payroll tax or any other tax cut why should we believe it? the president was out there just before the midterm saying get ready for a middle class tax cut. we never saw it. why do we think we'll actually see one now? >> we don't. we have a trillion dollar deficit. the administration has very little credibility in terms of its economic prescriptions given where we are now. the administration wanted to do something to stimulate the economy, if you talk to economists they'd say the first thing he can do is absolutely nothing. like do nothing to inflame the trade war further. if he wants to do something really aggressive he can roll back his tariffs, which are functionally a tax on americans. that's a way to cut taxes without having to expand the deficit because that's not on

the books of the federal budget. >> eli, 74% of economists surveyed expect a recession by 2021. it splits up by some who think it will be 2020 and some think it will start in 2021. how is this affecting discussions at the white house? because that is just nowhere in tune with what the message that's coming out of the president or the white house. >> right. but those forecasts and the unease broadly about the possibility of a recession in the near future, that is the reason folks inside the white house are having these discussions at all about coming up with something to stablize the economy ahead of the election because the president for all his cheerleading understands that if the economy takes a nosedive that that is a real big problem for him. yes, he is under water with his approval rating anyway even in the good economy but this is a guy who has been out there for two and a half years now, taking credit for the american economy every time there is a good jobs report going, to say all of the

world leaders are congratulating him on what he says is the hottest economy around. the way he talks about it and the way he has tried to sell it maybe they can continue to just get by on bluster but i think the president and the people around him understand that if the economy really does take a dip, that's an existential threat to his re-election. >> stephanie, we would always sit here and say live by the sword die by the sword. if you take credit for this thing when it goes down you have to take blame. none of these rules apply to donald trump. it doesn't matter. as eli says he has been bragging about an economy he shouldn't have been all the time. he won't take any credit or blame. >> hold on a second. they might not apply to donald trump but do they apply, john harwood, to the rest of the gop? the rest of the gop has been standing in line with the president but over the last week with the exception of larry kudlow and peter navarro who are appointed into those jobs, they don't have home districts or town halls to go to. they're the only ones who have been defending the president on the economy and those two we've

actually heard from in the gop whether jim jordan or newt gingrich, not talking about the president's economic policy. they are falsely claiming other members of the media are cheering on a recession which is absolutely not the case. we are merely reporting there's data and statistics historically showing a recession could be in the future. so where is the gop? because they're not bullet proof. >> well, they've got a problem. first of all, as you suggest, stephanie, what people wish would happen or partisan dreams don't cause recessions. right? economic events cause recessions. secondly, i would not be as confident as ali in saying that the rules don't apply to donald trump. he has never experienced a day of a really bad economy and we've got a president who's had, as eli pointed out, has had historically low ratings despite the fact that the economy is really good. that is largely because people who like the economy especially more upscale, college educated

types, don't like his behavior. don't like the values he expresses. if on the other hand you all of a sudden have people who do like his values and behavior but all of a sudden they're worried that maybe their own livelihoods are in jeopardy, that is a circumstance he hasn't had to face and that potentially, especially if you look at our nbc/"wall street journal" poll and see his declining ratings among white women who have not been to college, that is dangerous for him. >> the white house has a lot of tricks in its bag, forcing the fed to lower rates, this discussion of the payroll tax cut. the "new york times" is reporting another proposal under consideration would be, quote, a possible reversal of some of president trump's tariffs. which actually might really help. >> hold on a second. they might help in terms of the market and the economy but they're not going to help on the president taking on china. remember, the president taking on china was a core campaign

promise and it was about our financial future, bringing jobs back, and national security. if the president backs off on tariffs that might solve a short-term economic problem but doesn't that leave a gaping hole for what he said was most important and that was taking on cline? >> if that's true, what stephanie says, if you back off the tariffs does china get off free or do you do something else? >> they do. this is the corner the president backed himself into with all of his bluster and rhetoric in saying a trade war the good and easy to win. it is not so easy. china is playing a much longer game than a president focused primarily on november of 2020. that is not helping him in negotiations. the tariffs are hurting more than anyone the president's own supporters. they may be politically motivated those folks, the farmers, manufacturers, to want the president to be right on this. they may agree with him going after china. they may even overlook the fact that his policies and his trade war, that that is hurting their bottom line. it's those other voters that john talked about that are the real problem for this president,

those people who have rationalized the president's behavior and say at rallies i don't agree with everything he does. i don't like everything he says. but the economy is really good. if the economy is no longer really good how do they rationalize their support of this president? those who are not the bed rock of his support is what could get away from this president and what the white house is aware of and that may direct the president to back off the position he's held on trade and china for a long time. he'll obviously say whatever he has to say to explain away the contradiction but, you know, this is all about getting re-elected for the president. that's the top priority and he has never, ever been bothered by being called on inconsistencies and incoherent statements and plans. >> that is a valid and important point to underscore. >> see scaramucci, anthony. >> a great tease. thank you. >> a great promo. thank you, john. isn't this about misrepresentations? yesterday kyle bass, well known

investor, short seller, very bearish on china, said he cannot believe people are complaining their nikes produced in china will cost more this christmas. we should care more about national security. this isn't about people complaining about their nikes costing more. they're complaining because the president's economic adviser peter navarro argued this week this is not going to affect the american consumer and the president has been arguing that all along. >> intellectual honesty would be to say this will affect -- >> correct. >> if you want to get away from unfair, low labor practices, sneakers and soybeans, everything is going to cost more. suggesting it never hurts consumers which is what the president has done is intellectually dishonest. >> if i'm a business leader or world leader and i look at the president continuously misrepresenting how trade and tariffs work, i've got to wonder. this guy doesn't understand basic economics? >> thank you. john harwood cnbc editor at large and eli stokols "l.a.

times" white house reporter. the epoch times. you ever heard of it? i have. you've probably seen its videos on facebook, a hauj supporter of president trump. you might think it is another conservative news outlet but it's not by a long shot. we'll explain in an msnbc exclusive next. i've always been amazed by what's next.

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stephanie ruhle today." a new exclusive report from nbc

news connecting a chinese conspiracy community to a massive online pro trump network. the epoch times has more than 6 million followers on facebook. >> according to data from facebook's advertising archive, the small, new york based nonprofit news outlet has spent more than $1.5 million on about 11,000 pro trump advertisements in the last six months alone. why? and how about how big that is? that is more than any organization outside of the trump campaign, itself. and more than most democratic presidential candidates have spent with their own money. joining us now the nbc news reporters who broke the story who have been working on the story for the last five months. >> okay. talk to me about this thing. >> only talk to him. >> talk to us, velshi and stephanie ruhle.

the number of followers that this group has, do they get that organ organically or is it a political perspective? these folks are sort of anti-chinese government. >> the religious followers or followers on facebook? just to back up a little bit this was a really small organization, fledgling, chinese language then english language newspaper for the chinese american community to help them assimilate. that's what their 990s say. then suddenly in 2016 they changed the game and now they have come up and gotten all of these followers. so now millions of people see their ads. millions of people see the videos. those people aren't here for -- they're here for trump. >> we got to back it up. who is this organization? >> it is an anti-chinese communist group. they believe, and this is true, that a doomsday is incoming soon and that communists will be sent

to hell from that doomsday and that donald trump is helping sort of expedite this doomsday coming. that is every single thing they do from this newspaper which reaches more people than us, reaches more people than nbc news, to this dance performance they put on that goes all around the country. >> i'm sure you've seen the advertisements. >> everything is about this judgment day that is 30 years late. >> the goal is to save your souls, to save beings. >> what does that have to do with donald trump? >> there you go. >> that in this time has got the eye balls. that is what has elevated them to 3 million viewers, to be so popular. this is a way in. and so this is a way to get their message out using donald trump and at the same time elevating the ideals they hold so dear. ultra conservativism. they are against pop music, antihomosexual, ultra conservative. it is like the diagram of their ultra conservative view and the way grifters have found such

success in the pro trump era. >> the chinese government calls this group a cult. >> if you go to the performance, is that going to come across? is that obvious? >> it'll be obvious once you get in there. but with the newspaper it is not like that. they are really tied up with the trump campaign. they spent 40 minutes in trump tower with lara trump a couple months ago. >> so this is known. they are connected to each other. this is not incidental. >> three parts of the media empire that belongs to falun gang. the epoch times has found roaring success by aligning itself with the trump administration. >> where do they get their money? >> good question. they sell subscriptions to their newspaper but since they've changed their political calculation and started aligning themselves with conservatives they doubled their profits according to their tax forms. they don't actually pay taxes. they are nonprofits. it is unclear how they can do this sort of political

advertising and why taxes are exempt from that. >> also they're raking in ad money from places like facebook and youtube and secretly have the conspiracy theory, they secretly, all the editorial stuff, run a youtube channel that has 33 million views on it. they rake in ad money from facebook. >> call me silly and naive. how about standards and best pra practices? where does facebook and youtube weigh in? >> to me that is the larger story. if you are trying to eliminate dark money there is no way to do it because facebook will accept money from anybody. >> stop. there is not no way to do it. facebook is choosing not to do it. >> it's not against their rules to run a propaganda outlet. >> exactly. >> if you have the money they have the space. >> has the trump campaign commented on this? are they acknowledging this? >> donald trump is sharing epoch times content.

people from the campaign are publishing things on the epoch times website. they're not coordinating necessarily but they are enjoying whatever the epoch times is serving up. >> this is totally a while you were sleeping story. i've seen their newspaper, seen the ads. >> he is a huge fan of the dance troupe. huge. >> thank you for your reporting on this. i did not understand how this connection had grown. you're saying since 2016. i'd been watching this group for a long time and saying oh, how interesting and sort of fringe. i didn't realize what's happening. crazy. we need to start some kind of weird dance troupe website. velshi and stephanie ruhle. we're up next. >> thank you. all right. the politics of guns. president trump seemed raeldy to take action after back-to-back mass shootings but now appears to be shying away from any new gun restrictions. up next democratic senator from hawaii joins us to talk about what if anything democrats can do about it. t. let's see, aleve is proven better on pain

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welcome back to "velshi and ruhle." president trump seemed ready to support background checks after mass shootings in texas, ohio,

and california. now he appears to be reversing on gun safety yet again, this time the "new york times" writing after conversations with gun rights activists during his working vacation in new jersey including the nra's leader wayne lapierre, here is trump before and after the talks. >> i don't want guns in the hands of a lunatic or a maniac and i think if we do proper background checks we can prevent that. people don't realize we have very strong background checks right now. you go in to buy a gun you have to sign up. there are a lot of background checks that have been approved over the years. we do have a lot of background checks right now. >> hum. yesterday house speaker -- >> do you think we have a lot of background checks? >> no we don't. house speaker nancy pelosi and minority leader chuck schumer condemned the attempts to block the house taking up legislation on background checks which remain overwhelmingly popular. an nbc/"wall street journal" poll shows 89% of respondents

support them. that looks like very much like every other poll we've seen over the last few years. joining us from honolulu, democratic senator mazie kierano. there seems to be an inversed relationship to the number of people who want sensible gun legislation and the ability to, in the senate in particular, to get any done. >> you're right. and can we point our fingers at president trump who by the way doesn't surprise us with this reversal because remember during the campaign he said i'll take on the nra. i'll take the heat. and then he changed his mind. most recently of course. it's sad it doesn't surprise us that he says one thing one day and then soon thereafter he is on another tack. the nra remains really strong and of course the grim reaper himself, mitch mcconnell, who

refuses to call back the senate to vote on the house passed gun safety legislation. >> is there anything the democrats can do without the support of the president or mitch mcconnell? >> this is why i think that the american public has got to connect the dots and recognize that with 70% plus of the american people wanting gun safety laws enacted that they need to elect people who will do that. right now, they don't have that because you have all these republicans sitting there thinking that they're not going to be responsible for doing any of this. so we have to turn up the heat and enable people to realize who is actually stopping gun safety laws from being enacted. right now that would be the president and mitch mcconnell. >> you are on the armed services committee. we want to talk to you about the pentagon conducting a test of a type of missile previously banned under the imf treaty of 1987. tell me about your concerns about this.

>> so the president's unilateral decision to get out of the inf means there is going to be a new arms race and already you saw that with the testing of the missiles off the coast of california. and so you think that china and russia are not paying attention? they are going to begin to do these intermediate missile testings themselves. do we need that? at a time when the tensions are already high between our country and china as well as russia? no. this is not what we need. we need to be looking for diplomatic ways to tamp down the tensions that are arising all around the globe, thanks to this president's unilateral actions pulling us out of all kinds of agreements and treaties including by the way as you well know the iran nuclear treaty. >> all right. another question, on cnbc secretary of state mike pompeo

has said the united states has been negotiating with afghanistan and the taliban, indicating he was open to a withdrawal from forces from afghanistan if there is a reduction of violence. what is your take on that? >> i would like nothing better than for us to get out of afghanistan. we've been there what, close to 20 years now, and whatever diplomatic avenues that we can pursue along with our allies, by the way. this is not something we can be doing by ourselves and to have an orderly withdrawal of troops from afghanistan would be a good thing. as with anything that this president does one never knows what's going to happen. at the same time, pulling out of the iran nuclear deal is again creating a lot of instability in that part of the world. >> senator mazie hirano, good to se hawaii. aloha. >> thank you. this man was once part of the trump administration. white house communications

director for a total of 11 days. now anthony scaramucci is trying to get his old boss out of office. he joins us next to talk about what he's doing to make that happen. romo mode. (beep) (bang) good luck with that one. yes! that's why i wear skechers slip-ons. they're effortless. just slip them right on and off. skechers slip-ons, with air-cooled memory foam.

let's see, aleve is than tylenol extra strength. and last longer with fewer pills. so why am i still thinking about this? i'll take aleve. aleve. proven better on pain. since my dvt blood clot i was thinking... could there be another around the corner? or could it turn out differently? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot... almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis

didn't experience another. ...and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily... and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be surprising. ask your doctor about eliquis. ruhle." former white house administration director anthony scaramucci has penned a new article called i was wrong about

trump. here is why. he explains his break with the president and explains his previous support. >> he concludes with a call to action from both sides of the political aisle writing this. i challenge my fellow republicans to summon the nerve to speak out on the record against trump. defy the culture of fear he has created and go public with the concerns you readily express in private. to members of the so-called resistance, please leave room on the off ramp for those willing to admit their mistakes. joining us now former white house communications director anthony scaramucci the author of "trump, the blue collar president." tell us, what do they tell you? >> thankfully i am the only person that bought the book. they're in the incinerator right now. go ahead. >> you said all the things that you say in private. what do fellow republicans or members of this white house say in private? >> i think they are sharing the same thing i'm sharing in public, that he is manifestly unhinged. he is a ridiculous bully. he has no managerial style or structure. he doesn't listen or take

counsel from anybody. >> what's new about that? >> well, like i said in the article, there's nothing new about it but in my opinion it's getting worse. and somebody once said to me, what's the red line? i used the potter stewart line. it's like pornography. you know it when you see it. the red line for me was the comments about the four congresswomen. i am a republican. i don't agree with any of the four congresswomen but i agree with their right to have standing to stay in the country and be citizens. ali and i talked about that and being a person of courage to speak out against that sort of racist nonsense. it is totally ridiculous. >> that is a question a lot of people have. you're a smart guy and everybody knows that. why did it take you so long to come around? >> i'm a smart guy. i thought i was a dope this morning on the presidential tweet. >> according to him. this got personal real fast. >> he is coming after a private citizen on his twitter feed. but that is also projecting on his part. you can't find a bigger -- it is a form of facism as we all know.

>> are you concerned for your safety that the president of the united states is going after you? >> i'm a big boy. i know how to handle myself. i'm not concerned for my safety. i know what he is trying to do. he is trying to stoke that division and that hatred and create a rising of a specter of anger and also, i don't even take it personally. he is doing that because he knows the people around him absolutely hate his guts but they're afraid to speak out. you are very good journalists. you've heard them say it to you privately. i would caution journalists now to say, hey. you're saying it to me privately. why don't you save the country and be more open and say it in public. what are you afraid of that president trump is going to bully you into submission on his twitter feed and call you names? >> what are republicans afraid of? >> three or four different things. number one he is a maniacal bully filled with anger and rage and obviously just look at the feed. he is completely unhinged. they are afraid they could get primaried because right now he has a personality cult stranglehold like a mccarthy fever going on in the party.

the third thing i think they're afraid of is that they have great uncertainty about the 2020 election. so in their consensus about a month ago he is winning. he's the president. the economy is booming. and now they're like, okay. he's crazy but he's winning and the economy is booming. now they're like he's crazy and the economy is having a rate of change. you guys know i'm running $10 billion and i study the economy very carefully. i'm not saying it is going into recession by the end of 2020 but it is going to slow down. you can totally feel it because of all the unpredictability about the trade. >> you've been arguing all along let trump be trump. put his rhetoric aside. your book was "the blue collar president" and you said right here on this set, he speaks to blue collar america. he speaks to the -- he is bringing jobs back. >> that was his promise. >> hold on. then we look at companies like u.s. steel having lay-offs this week. we know their second quarter earnings, we just heard, were one-third of what they were last year. >> right. >> what did we or -- i'm going

to say it -- you miss? you argued that he had the right economic plan for those exact voters. >> but that is more in my opinion again more related to what is going on about the lack of predictability in trade and so the tariffs are disrupting everybody's supply chain including domestic manufacturing. you could read about that. i could send you stuff about that to explain the doctrine of unintended consequences of manipulate go-to tariff system the way he has and making it so unpredictable. as an example he could have said there is a differential. we're going 2% a quarter for ten quarters, get up to 20% but every business leader large and small businesses in america you have two and a half years to get yourselves there. but he didn't do that because he is a nars cyst and has to do everything himself. he threw a ball and roulette wheel, trump tower roulette. nobody knows what is going on. now u.s. steel has to layoff a couple hundred people. >> he is not alone. peter navarro, larry kudlow -- >> just quickly, you're asking about the book, if you read the book it's about what the

president's promise was. and if you read the book it was about what the vacuum of advocacy was for blue collar people. what i said to bill maher one night on his show, if you are going to try to beat president trump you have to go to those people. stop calling them deplorable and white nationalist and this nonsense. meet with them in the areas they live and give them hope and good policies to raise living standards. >> there were a lot of people who voted for donald trump who might easily have voted for bernie sanders. >> i write that in the book. i went to several bernie sanders rallies and saw sort of the same anxiety. just two different policy pr prae -- prescriptions. >> there is nothing that donald trump has done since the beginning including the time you were at the white house that has actually addressed that effectively. he identified it and got a lot of votes for that. he tapped into a vein of anger and anxiety and frustration,

much of which is valid but he hasn't done anything about that and there is no sense he is going to at this point. >> i'm not trump deranged but trump fatigued. this nonsense is crazy, hurting our global standing, it's crazy. there are certain things he did by lowering the taxes that made the businesses more competitive. you had the highest tax code in industrial america. there are certain things he did -- >> we didn't see those companies reinvest. >> most of them did share buybacks. >> but it made it more competitive. there was an opportunity if he didn't dial up the tariffs and create that uncertainty there was an opportunity for more capital investment. the numbers in the first and second quarter were a disaster and will be really bad in the third quarter primarily because of the lack of predictability. he was going to throw tariffs on mexico then he pulled it back. this tariff, that tariff. it's going to be december 1st now december 15th. that is slowing down capital investment. so the cohesion of the plan and the long-term policy thinking behind the plan is non existent

because he doesn't listen to anybody. he's got to be about himself. >> if you know the policies that work and the politics that worked are you the person to primary the president? >> i'm a private citizen and so i have no interest. >> he was a private citizen before he ran. >> i have no political experience. >> neither did he. >> i understand that. am i the person? no. i don't think i am the person. let's see, we're organizing right now. we've got a lot of traction. it is before labor day. let's make an announcement sometime, you know, early -- >> what does that mean you're organizing? what are you doing? >> there is a very large group of republicans some of which frankly have left the party but people, ex-cabinet officials, military people -- >> who? what are their names? >> so i think because of presidential bullying i think much easier to get them to come out in a group. i think it is very hard to take incoming from the president for most people. me i'm a new yorker. i can personally care. it doesn't matter.

keep firing it in. ridiculous. for most people they get a little unnerved by that. let's do it in a group. there is safety in numbers. i think people will then be able to express themselves very openly and very eloquently and dispassionately about what is really going on. >> so are you guys going to -- what does it mean? are they going to field a candidate? >> that's the goal. the goal is to field somebody that's experienced. i'm calling on 2024 candidates to think about the future because you can't whistle past the grave yard of president trump's incompetence and his style. you can't whistle past that. you can't stand there on the platform in 2024 and say oh, i knew he was crazy but i was afraid of a presidential tweet so i didn't speak my mind. you see what i'm saying? i'm hoping one or two of them will be ronald reagan, step in like he did in '76 and primary this guy so we can right size and reengineer the party. unfortunately the party has become a little bit of a personality cult and he is trying to silence everybody in

the party. which also is a big danger. >> is it mark sanford? >> you know, again, the one i know personally is governor welt. i have a good relationship with him. i don't know mark sanford so i don't want to comment on him. >> it is not you. >> you want to run as my vice president? >> no. but i'd like to know if you're going to primary the president. >> if you run as my vice president you and i will take a shot. >> negative. >> make you the director. >> we just got these mugs made. we can't -- >> make velshi the director of communications. have a 12-day limit meaning, floor. so you'll be able to be -- >> as long as i last more than 11 days. >> then i'll review every day after that. you can be our communications director. >> it is not just the president going after you. the gop chairwoman also going after you. >> yeah. >> you're not just a trump supporter. you are a big supporter of mitt romney, jeb bush. >> scott walker, the republican

governor's association. i've written a lot of different checks. >> so what's up with you? >> i sort of think that is a little unfair. there is a tremendous amount of pressure on her obviously because she has the bully-in-chief doing all these crazy things. the poor woman had to drop her maiden name romney from her name. >> legally she had to? >> i don't know. look at her twitter feed. >> she chose to. >> just tremendous pressure on her. i feel bad for her actually. i'm not criticizing her just asking her the open, intellectual question about whether or not that's the right thing to do for the party. 2024 is going to be right around the corner. he continues on this trajectory of full blown crazy he'll crash and burn. there is no way reasonable men and women of standing and statesmen in our party or in the country are going to be able to tolerate this much longer. i'm just calling on her, take a step back. president bush had a 91% approval rating. pat buchanan primaried him and

the world changed in 1993. what you are seeing right now and you are assuming will be the status quo in 15 months may not be. open the tent a little bit. relax on your twitter feed that happens to be @gop and embrace the other intellectual ideas in the party other intellectual ideas because the future is going to be without donald trump one way or another. it's either 2020 or 2024. >> anthony scaramucci, good to see you. the former white house communications director. planned parenthood reject something federal funding so it will not have to comply with the new trump administration rule. but will taking a stand be worth it? what will it actually cost? we'll be speaking to the acting president of planned parenthood next. you're watching "vels "velshi & ruhle." y to upgrade. moving in. moving on up. or making big moves. deliveries ship free and come with a 100-night free trial. no matter your budget. or your sleep style. we have quality options for everyone.

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we didn't have to stop the movie. i didn't have to call an ambulance. and i didn't have to contact your family. because your afib didn't cause a blood clot that led to a stroke. not today. we'd discussed how your stroke risk increases over time, so even though you were feeling fine, we chose xarelto®, to help keep you protected. once-daily xarelto®, significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. in fact, over 96% of people remained stroke-free. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. while taking, a spinal injection increases the risk of blood clots, which may cause paralysis- the inability to move. you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines.

get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. be sure you're doing all you can to help protect yourself from a stroke. ask your doctor if it's time for xarelto®. to learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto.com. welcome back to velshi & ruhle. planned parenthood is cutting ties with the federal family planning program over a new trump administration rule. the rule says any group that receives the funding cannot provide or even refer patients to an abortion provider. >> the program title x is nearly 50 years old and pays for health services for poor women all over the nation. it's allowed planned parenthood to provide services to more than 1.5 million low-income women annually, including affordable

contraception, cancer screenings and other critical health services. "the new york times" says the decision means planned parenthood could be losing out on about $60 million a year. joining us now, the acting president and ceo of planned parenthood, alexis mcgill advance. $60 million. what does that mean to those low-income women who depend on planned parenthood? >> what that means is that, you know, as your last guest said over and over again that trump and the trump administration are essentially bullies. they are forcing us out of a program by endorsing and enforcing this unethical gag rule. we are just not going to engage in providing substandard care for low-income americans. >> but what happens to those women? what happens to those women who don't engage in politics but need health services? >> well, that's right. it's going to vary state by state. what will happen for planned parenthood is our doors are

staying open. we're committed to trying to figure out how to support them in the short and the long term in engaging and ensuring that our supporters are out there calling congress to help us fill this gap. but what it's going to mean, it's going to be harder to see us because we don't have access to title x funding. it's going to be harder to get birth control. harder for them to get the care that they need. some states, some states like minnesota see parts of 90% of title x patients in their state. so what it will mean will be longer lines. it will mean delays in care. it means they may not choose to get access to the care. and that's exactly what the trump administration wants. >> how do you make up for the money that planned parenthood may lose? >> so, again, we have an emergency affiliate funds that will help us cover in the short term, but the budget fill should not be on the backs of a nonprofit organization. you fund fund-raise your way out of basic health care service. this is something that should be

the responsibility of the state to back fill. the federal government to back fill to ensure that we have access to basic things like contraception, sti testing and treatment and cancer screenings. these are things that, you know, without can actually lead to public health crisis. so the state has got to intervene. >> do you see this as a temporary separation from title x? could you re-establish ties, a relationship after president trump and this administration is no longer in office? >> yes. and we've seen that's what's happened over history when certain administrations have come in and made decisions such as these. but the reality is we need -- we're talking 1.6 million women now who may have to, you know, have a delay in care. have a -- not access to care at all. we need those women to be supported now because, you know, now they need the access to birth control. we don't want health centers to potentially close.

we don't want them to drive miles and miles to get access to an iud. these are the kinds of things we're facing now, and we need everyone to step into this. >> if you're able to fill this void with philanthropic dollars, does that put you in a worse position when and if you want to go back and get government funding and they can turn and say, well, we'll work this out all on your own? >> this is not something you can fund-raise your way out of. i think i'm being clear about that. there are, obviously, some temporary, you know, opportunities that we are looking at. there are eight states that also have -- are being forced out of the title x program because they do not, are not willing to abide by an unethical gag rule. the conversation of how we backfill is one piece of it, but again, this is a program that's been around for 50 years. it has been a backbone of providing access to birth control, to sti testing, to things that have been fundamental to broad

reproductive health care. and so this is something, this is a fight that we're going to continue to engage in, and we're, you know, we need congress to step in and act. >> alexis mcgill johnson, thanks for joining us, the acting president and ceo of planned parenthood. next, is the white house more worried about an economic downturn than they are willing to admit it? you're watching "vels "velshi & ruhle."

all right. we are just about done. you can catch me again at 3:00 eastern. i'll be here for that. >> and i will see you at 9:00 a.m. and i'll be watching you at 3:00. >> see us on all those various things we tell you about what you can see us on. >> what about me at 2:00 p.m.? >> you don't have to go into any apps or streaming things. you can just stay right here and you see our great friend chris jansing. >> the next hour we're just watching chris jansing. >> we hope that's the place to be. i am chris jansing. in for katy tur. 11:00 a.m. out west. 2:00 p.m. in washington where in just minutes president trump will welcome the president of romania to the white house. now the official agenda includes energy, security and trade, but this is also an opportunity for the president to talk to the press with questions almost sure to be asked about new reporting on white house economic