tv Decision 2020 Post- Debate Analysis MSNBC October 15, 2019 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
>> looming over all of it, the impeachment inquiry and president donald trump. >> this president is turning the moral leadership of this country into a dumpster fire. >> as a former prosecutor, i know a confession when i see it, and he did it in plain sight. >> every candidate here is more decent, more coherent, and more patriotic than the criminal in the house. >> msnbc's live coverage of decision 2020 starts right now. >> welcome to msnbc's special post-debate coverage. i'm joy reid, and tonight a dozen democratic candidates, the largest field assembled on a single stage so far, met at otterbein university in westerville, ohio, just north of
columbus, answering questions for three hours in front of an audience in this bellwether state for picking the president. going into this fourth presidential debate, the candidate absorbing the most attacks was not joe biden but, rather, the new polling front-runner, massachusetts senator elizabeth warren. >> your signature, senator, is to have a plan for everything except this. >> you are making republican talking points right now in this room. >> saying this is a rules problem is ignoring the reality that americans see around us every day. >> sometimes i think that senator warren is more focused on being punitive or pitting some part of the country against the other. >> i'd like to ask senator warren if she would join me in calling for an end to this regime change war in syria finally. >> when i called on twitter to suspend donald trump's account that you did not agree, and i
would urge you to join me. >> meanwhile, mayor pete buttigieg was on the attack tonight, dreaggressively challenging beto o'rourke on their differences on gun policy. >> i don't need lessons from you on courage, political or personal. everyone on this stage is determined to get something done. everyone on this stage recognizes, or at least i thought we did, that the problem is not other democrats who don't agree with your particular idea of how to handle this. the problem is the national rifle association and their enablers in congress, and we should be united in taking the fight to them. >> and all of the candidates sparred over policy differences on health care, guns, syria, and more. joining me now to discuss how it all went down, our chief public affairs officer for move on.org, msnbc political analyst karine jean-pierre, shannon pettypiece.
david jolly, and maria teresa kumar. let me come to you guys for your thoughts on the debate so far. karine, this was a more contentious debates than some of the previous ones for elizabeth warren. >> the last three debates before this one, elizabeth warren was really unscathed. she had three great debates. no one came for her, and she is clearly now the front-runner because they came for her. >> yeah. >> and it was kind of -- i think she was even surprised. she had those really interesting looks on her face like, oh, okay. wait. let me get in there. so i think that's what we saw. that was the big difference from all of the four debates thus far. i have to say, joy, i don't think this is going to change anything. i don't think it's going to move any of the -- at least the top three that we have right now. i don't think that does that. also 12, 12 people. >> yeah, it's a lot of people. >> that's a lot of people. >> yeah.
>> and i think, you know, i think it also does a disservice to the voters because there are so many people on that stage. >> yeah. >> so that's kind of what i got out of the debate tonight. >> yeah. let me play just a little bit of this. this is buttigieg, klobuchar, and sanders going after warren on health care. here it is. >> the way to do it without a giant multi-trillion dollar hole and without having to avoid a yes or no question is medicare for all who want it. we take a version of medicare. we let you access it if you want to. if you prefer to stay on your private plan, you can do that too. >> let's be clear. whenever smnl hears the term medicare for all who want it, understand what that really means. it's medicare for all who can afford it. >> i appreciate elizabeth's work. but, again, the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is something that you can actually get done. and we can get this public option done. >> people defending a system which is dysfunctional, which is
cruel. 87 million uninsured, 30,000 people dying every single year. 500,000 people going bankrupt for one reason. they came down with cancer. i will tell you what the issue is here. the issue is whether the democratic party has the guts to stand up to the health care industry. >> and, shannon, i'll make the edit i don't think sanders was going after warren on that. they really have been acting almost as a team. >> they were aligned again even as his numbers have gone down and hers have come up, with the assumption being that she is taking supporters from him, they continue sort of this pact they have and this alignment. now, i think what was really fascinating to see, you have klobuchar and buttigieg, who are fighting for this moderate lane. and really i think fighting to keep their campaign alive at this point, especially klobuchar, who hasn't qualified for the next debate yet. she really came out fighting for her political future here. but instead of -- so they want
that moderate lane that biden has now. instead of going after biden, they sort of let biden flounder on his own a bit, stumble over his own words, and instead go after warren to show themselves as the alternate warren, that they were the one who could be the counterbalance. if you're a little uncomfortable with elizabeth warren's positions, you don't need to go to joe biden. you can come to me, amy klobuchar. i'm a senator. i have foreign policy experience. i'm from the midwest, the heartland, and stake out that for themselves. so if anything shifts, which i don't know if it really will at this point either, i could say maybe one of them being able to pick up some more moderate votes from people who are a bit on the fence. >> david jolly, they were going for voters like you. they're going for voters more in the moderate sphere, maybe never-trump republicans, people who might not be comfortable with elizabeth warren. if you look at the cash on hand, buttigieg has a lot of money out there, more really left on-hand
than biden. out of the klobuchar, buttigieg sort of moderate wing tonight, who do you think was more resonant for voters like you? >> well, look, let me start by saying i find myself as a former republican, never-trumper always more encouraging on the nights of democratic debates than some of my democratic colleagues because what i always see in these evenings is a field that is so much richer in policy competence and in subject matter expertise than what we've seen in three years from the republican party, than what we ever saw in a republican debate in 2016. so, yes, look, certain ideologies resonate. is it the more moderate lane you see in mayor pete and klobuchar, maybe biden? is it the bold idea lane and progressive lane of warren and sanders and others? at the end of the day, i think if you're watching tonight, you can apply miles law, the notion of where you stand depends on where you sit. if you're with kamala, you think she had a great night, and
you're right. if you're with warren, you think she had a great night and you're right. what i did find very interesting tonight, joy, is it seems they each have found their stride in turning the topic and the criticism to donald trump. when things get too heated between each other, each candidate almost to a person knows, okay, let's turn the fire now on donald trump. and it resonates. it works well. but the one missed opportunity it creates that i saw tonight, that i hadn't seen in past nights, is there are moments in debate where these candidates have an opportunity to demonstrate their fitness to be commander in chief and to be president. tonight that was around the syria conversation. the world is angry with donald trump. everyone onstage, everybody who is voting in the democratic primary is angry with donald trump. but firing at donald trump in this moment was a choice where they could have been more presidential and demonstrated an exact plan. there is no great solution, and i think a lot of people are looking for candidates right now
to say, what do we do in this moment in syria? the easy answer was to criticize trump. i think there was missed opportunity for a number of candidates on specifics. i would say maybe mayor pete shined in that moment with more specifics than the others. >> we're going to get in the next block a little bit more into syria because i think it was an interesting sort of back-and-forth between the two military veterans onstage. but speaking of this idea, maria teresa kumar, the who can get things done question. biden is that he'll put things back together. you'll have a normal sort of presidency again after donald trump. he tried to present himself as the only one who knows how to be president, but here he was trying to stand out in the dozen standing in the middle of that stage today. >> i'm the only one on this stage that's gotten anything really big done, from the violence against women act to making sure that we pass the affordable care act to being in a position where we, in fact, took almost a $90 billion act that kept us from going into a
depression, putting us in a position where i was able to end roe -- excuse me, able to end the issue of gun sales in terms of assault weapons. so the question is who is best prepared? we all have good ideas. the question is who is going to be able to get it done? >> joe, you talked about working with republicans and getting things done. but you know what you also got done, and i say this as a good friend. you got the disastrous war in iraq done. you got a bankruptcy bill which is hurting middle-class families all over this country. you got trade agreements like nafta and pntr with china done, which have cost us 4 million jobs. >> it sounds a lot like the case against hillary clinton to be honest with you from 2016. >> i know what i'm about to say is going to be incredibly controversial, but there is no doubt in most folks' mind that all those individuals on the stage that night have solutions to our country's problem, that
they have really great policy solutions. so did al gore. i say that because in that stage at the end of the day, what i would say is that we're still debating the nuances of policies between one and the other, and no one has a claim that there is an existential threat right now in the white house, not just -- you know, not just on the national scale but increasingly on the global scale. and no one is able to actually meet that demand that we need right now, that we are talking about this is not a debate in 2016. had i flipped into 2016, i would say, this is just a normal debate. that is not where we are. unfortunately in order for us to really say who is going to take donald trump toe to toe, you have to think about who is that moderate republican voter who says, the country is not right. who is going to be that leadership, that breakthrough? it's not about the corporations this time around. that's where most of the democrats feel safe is when they point to the insurance companies or talk about this idea of big
money. it's not that. it's what is happening when we talk about corruption directly right now in the white house. why are we talking about the headlines and possible impeachment inquiries that are actually happening? that was completely missed. as a result, i think everybody on that stage did not grow their base. democrats are going to come out, but they need to make sure that they're encouraging and increasingly engaging the independent moderate voter that says, you know what? something is off. who is going to basically call it what it is and make sure that we set our country right again? >> yeah. you know, karine, you come from moveon.org, which is a movement organization. we know that in this country, you know, solid candidates don't win elections. movements win elections. that's what barack obama had. >> that's exactly right. >> al gore unfortunately didn't have that. >> right. >> so that is a challenge, right? these guys are up there debating the nuances of policy, but who up there was showing you they have a movement? >> i totally agree with maria teresa. it's going to take a movement to
win in 2020, to beat donald trump. it truly, truly is because it's going to be such a negative campaign that he is going to run. so we have to be able to excite the base. but the base is there because we've seen that the last three years. so how do you really bring in voters who don't normally vote like young people and others who stayed home in 2016 when you compare it to 2012? so it is going to take someone who can excite. i also agree with maria teresa on another thing too. i think the best part of the debate was the first 10, 15 minutes when they talked about trump's criminality. like you didn't really hear that or see that contrast. he is the danger that we have. he is the person that we have to beat, and they have more in common than they have differences. >> yeah. it becomes a student council election at a certain point. >> that's exactly right. >> all right. there is meanwhile a growing trump-caused crisis in syria as david jolly pointed out, and it was a big part of tonight's
debate. we're going to talk about it right after the break. >> when i was deployed, i knew one of the things keeping me safe was the fact that the flag on my shoulder represented a country known to keep its word, and our allies knew it, and our enemies. you take that away, you are taking away what makes america america. it miakes our troops and the world a much more dangerous place. after my dvt blood clot, i wondered.
could another come around the corner. or could it play out differently? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. almost 98% of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling
numbness or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planed medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be your moment. ask your doctor about eliquis.
that we will back them up too. >> in syria, he has created a bigger than ever humanitarian crisis. he has helped isis get another foothold, a new lease on life. >> it has been the most shameful that any president has done in modern history. >> wethe democrats were expressg outrageous over president trump's decision to pull american troops out of syria following a call with the leader of turkey, and the catastrophic consequences therein, this story broke. "the washington post" reports trump's tv lawyer urged donald trump to follow through on a top priority of turkey's president. tayyip erdogan, by pushing to extradite a turkish cleric living in exile in the united states back in 2017. the cleric is fethullah gu lan who erdogan blames for an attempted coup against him in 2016. the post says giuliani's attempt
to persuade -- another instance of which he appears to have been pushing a shadow foreign policy from his perch outside the government. notably, trump's first national security adviser, michael flynn, who lasted all of 27 days in his job in 2017 and who now awaits sentencing on charges he lied to the fbi about his contacts with russian officials, also tried to persuade trump to turn fethullah gulen over to the turkish autocrat, who happened to have been paying him months before trump took office. the panel is back with me now. david, you did raise this question of foreign policy, and this week we saw pure crisis really in donald trump's -- resulting from donald trump's decision to yank u.s. troops out of syria and the benefits that that served to russia and to the autocrat in syria. do you think -- to me, personally, it seemed that buttigieg really shined in this part of the debate because he really was able to bring to bear his own service and to sound
really coherent on it. in your mind, did he or anybody else stand out to you as rising to the moment? >> i think mayor pete certainly did. we heard a little bit of specifics from joe biden, a reference to a no-fly zone as perhaps the next military step to take. this provides an interesting dynamic to the foreign policy debate for these candidates because it was such a personal moment of donald trump the man, where the world witnessed the depravity of the man, if you will, who by a singular decision knew he was unleashing carnage on the kurds. and he allowed it to happen, which was why there's a visceral reaction among the voters, and the candidates onstage tonight knew that they could play to that, rightfully so, and address the anger of the american people. you heard that in the clips you played from biden and warren, talking about what trump had unleashed, what trump had done. but what i was referencing before the break is there's also a missed opportunity, though, if you go in that direction, you
don't have the opportunity to highlight if you were commander in chief, as mayor pete was trying to establish -- if i was commander in chief, this is what i would now do. the obama administration admitted they had to settle on the least bad option in syria. but what had happened is it had played relatively to a standstill. we were not in an active war in syria. we've lost about ten american soldiers, i believe, but it wasn't as antictive -- trump created a situation where every option is worse than it was before. and in those moments you look to a commander in chief. i don't know that we saw that moment from any single candidate tonight, but i'd give the edge to mayor pete among the others. >> this is cut six from our producers. this is one of the moments in which he was discussing this very issue. here it is, mayor pete. >> look, i didn't think we should have gone to iraq in the first place. i think we need to get out of afghanistan. but it's also the case that a small number of specialized,
special operations forces and intelligence capabilities were the only thing that stood between that part of syria and what we're seeing now, which is the beginning of a genocide and the resurgence of isis. meanwhile, soldiers in the field are reporting that for the first time, they feel ashamed -- ashamed of what their country has done. we saw the spectacle, the horrifying sight of a woman with the lifeless body of her child in her arms, asking what the hell happened to american leadership. and when i was deployed, i knew one of the things keeping me safe was the fact that the flag on my shoulder represented a country known to keep its word, and our allies knew it and our enemies. >> thank you, mayor. >> you take that away, you are taking away what makes america america. it makes our troops and the world a much more dangerous place. >> you know, maria teresa, the big picture of this election is this is not a student council election. there's so much at stake in terms of the american image around the world and the destabilizing effect of having
that image so depleted and having us move into what malcolm nance calls the axis of autocracies rather than the allies we've traditionally had. did you feel that the weight of that really came through in this debate at all tonight? >> with the exception of -- i think that was actually mayor pete's best moment when he was talking specifically about his own service and what it means to have american values and how we're abdicating that responsibility. that was strong. but there was no plan b. there was no clear assessment of what would be done differently. how do you make sure we are rectifying those issues? we have basically right now have an individual in the white house that is literally, with his hands, breaking the world order that the united states created right after world war ii. and we're not giving anybody leadership. so there was no plan of how do we get back? how do we make sure that we find those allies to come back to us?
and how do we hold individuals that are breaking those promises accountable? that was missing. >> i want to now play just a clip of the person with whom mayor pete was having much of that back-and-forth, and that is tulsi gabbard, the other military veteran who was on that stage tonight among the 12. here she is. >> the slaughter of the kurds being done by turkey is yet another negative consequence of the regime change war. ongoing regime change. regime change war. smeared veterans like myself for calling for an end to this regime change war. as president, i will end these regime change wars. >> now, she said that phrase ten times, regime change wars. ten times in ten minutes. something stood out to myself quite frankly and to susan glasser of the "new yorker" about tulsi gabbard's commentary on syria tonight in that phrase. glasser wrote, how odd to listen to tulsi gabbard mouthing syrian and russian talking points on the democratic debate stage
tonight. sorry, but no one thinks u.s. troops withdrawn by trump were there as part of a regime change war by the u.s. it's as untrue as anything from the president of the united states. and clint watts, shannon, tweeted tulsi gabbard's take on syria is completely false. the u.s. did not start the war in syria, nor did we initiate a regime change. the u.s. did not back al qaeda in syria. why didn't any candidates challenge her on those falsehoods? i was surprised that none of the other 11, including mayor pete, no one turned to tulsi gabbard, and said, regime change? what regime? because she has been somebody who has seemed to defend bashar al assad. this isn't iraq. syria is a completely different situation, but she seemed to be merging it with -- i think a lot of us opposed the iraq war. >> each debate she has had an interesting dynamic. as the field narrows, it's not clear whether she will qualify for the next debate. but there's been so many
candidates in each debate we've had, sort of different personalities who sort of can change the tone or the mood of these debates. they're sitting out, and i think that will sort of create less of a distraction onstage from what some of the core issues are that we see the candidates going around because, of course, syria -- the democrats finally had a moment to get in on one of the main issues that's going on in the news right now that has been dominated by trump and that they have not been getting any oxygen in on. so in this moment where they had to really show themselves as commander in chief, i think so much of that conversation -- obviously pete buttigieg was able to sort of use that as a moment to assert his foreign policy credentials. but, you know, tulsi gabbard took a lot of that moment away from the other candidates when they could have used it to show their foreign policy. i think as the field narrows, there will be more opportunity. >> i think it is weird that people did not take the opportunity to challenge her on that. i've never seen anyone challenge
her on that. another person took good advantage of this portion of the debate for himself and this is julian castro. >> the folks this week that saw those images of isis prisoners running free, to think about how absurd it is that this president is caging kids on the border and effectively letting isis prisoners run free. [ applause ] >> i think well done. >> that was really well done because immigration didn't come up at all, and that's an issue that he really has stood behind and elevated in this national debate. and i thought he used that moment, and you didn't hear a lot from julian castro. he really didn't -- >> well, there were 43 people onstage. >> yeah, there were tons of people, and so that was a smart move by julian. >> so important to independent and moderate voters. >> 100%. so much didn't come up. >> i think it goes back to the point that they didn't grow the
base in any way, whether you're talking gun voters or independents or talking to latinos. that is the big problem is they need to figure out how to break through and how to start growing that base. >> all right. thank you all very much. now you can actually get some sleep. up next, talking about the "i" word. i'm not getting any sleep. we're going to talk about what the candidates had to say about the effort to impeach donald trump and remove him from the presidency. >> i just want to start by reminding everybody that every candidate here is more decent, more coherent, and more patriotic than the criminal in the white house. [ applause ] ♪
keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for hiv in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv with three different medicines to help you get to undetectable. that means the amount of virus is so low it can't be measured in lab tests. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a build-up of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache.
welcome back to msnbc's special post-democratic debate coverage. i'm joy reid. and in this first debate since the house impeachment inquiry began, there was one thing all of the democratic candidates agreed upon for the most part -- impeachment. all 12 candidates onstage expressed support for at least the inquiry with several saying that they're ready to vote to remove donald trump from office right now. >> this is about donald trump, but understand it's about the next president and the next president and the next president and the future of this country. >> he will not cooperate in any way at all, will not list any witnesses, will not provide any information, will not do anything to cooperate with the
impeachment. they have no choice but to move. >> i think that the house will find him guilty of worthy of impeachment because of the emoluments clause. >> because as a former prosecutor, i know a confession when i see it, and he did it in plain sight. >> we must be there. we are talking about ongoing proceedings to remove a sitting president from office. this has got to be about patriotism and not partisanship. >> we have a constitutional duty to pursue this impeachment. >> we have to impeach this president and the majority of americans not only support impeachment, they support removal. >> well, it's a mistake on the part of republicans who enable a president whose actions are as offensive to their own supposed values as they are to the values we all share. >> i think it should continue to play its course out, to gather all the information, provide that to the american people recognizing that that is the only way forward. >> we have a responsibility to be fearless in the face of this
president's criminality and his lawlessness. >> so, in fact, impeaching and removing this president is something that the american people are demanding. >> we need to present a new vision, and that even includes talking about impeaching donald trump. >> joining me now, tiffany cross, co-fujason johnson, jona alter, joel payne. okay. tiffany, i'll start with you. everyone pretty much agreed on this. there were some nuances there about how far they thought people should go. was it even possible for anybody to stand out on this issue? >> no, and i actually think this was a bad way to start the debate. i think you have to get the american people -- while you have them, you have so many competing interests and this isn't really something that the american people were focused on. i thought a lot of questions off the top were really a lot of thing that the chatter class
were talking about, not necessarily what people are talking about in barbershops and on corners and in their hopes or whatever. i think a better question may have been, what's your argument to the person who says, look, let's just let the election happen? you know, that would have been, i think, a way where you could see some more daylight between the candidates. i will say that i thought mayor pete actually gave a great response. i thought his response was one of the best responses when he said, shame on the republicans for not standing with us. you're seeing a lot of this kind of same rhetoric at a lot of these town halls across the country with members of congress going home and having their democratic constituents say, i think impeachment is going far. i think you have to learn how to clap back at those people even though they're your constituents. i thought it was a missed opportunity for the moderators. >> let's play -- this is buttigieg. this is 24 seconds. this is him making not the specific argument we just heard from tiffany, but kind of his
argument for impeachment. >> look, the president has left the congress with no choice, and this is not just about holding the president accountable for not just the things emerging in these investigations but actions that he has confessed to on television. it's also about the presidency itself because a president ten years or 100 years from now will look back at this moment and draw the conclusion either that no one is above the law or that a president can get away with anything. >> let's play cory booker also. this is cut four. this is cory booker. listen to that. >> we have to conduct this process in a way that is honorable. i swore an oath to do my job as a senator, do my duty. this president has violated his. i will do mine. >> so, jason, that was an answer to a question i thought was one of the oddest questions tonight, was do you think you can be fair to donald trump? that was a weird framing that was sort of put to several of
them. do you think that you can treat the man fair? >> first off, the man doesn't treat anybody fair. this is what happens when you ask a bunch of people there's not a lot of daylight between to answer the same question. by the third person, they're all saying the same thing. pete gave a good answer and cory gave a nice answer. you should have actually started with tulsi gabbard because she was the only person on the stage who initially against impeachment. ask people on the areas where they may actually have some difference because even if you say the argument can you be fair one way or the other, senator harris and at one point biden, said since we would be on the jury as senators, we're not going to give a direct answer, but now the evidence is so clear. it's what happens when you have 12 zillion competing all answering the same question. >> elizabeth warren was actually the first to come out of the gate and be in favor of an impeachment inquiry. let's play what she had to say and how she explained why she's for it.
>> we took a constitutional oath, and that is that no one is above the law, and that includes the president of the united states. impeachment is the way that we establish that this man will not be permitted to break the law over and over without consequences. this is about donald trump, but understand it's about the next president and the next president and the next president and the future of this country. the impeachment must go forward. >> john, you know, elizabeth warren is good at explaining things. let's stipulate to that. i think she gave what was probably the most coherent, clear answer for someone who doesn't understand why this is being done. >> well, that's one of her great skills and why she's the front-runner. she's the best communicator and usually the best communicator wins. but, you know, she actually went -- she got steam when she came out for impeachment. that was a very big moment for her campaign. >> yep. >> she was early. she was actually not the first
one. the first one was tom steyer, and he's the one i have a bone to pick with, okay? the guy has spent $47 million buying himself onto that stage. that could fund more than 1,000 campaigns for state representative in this country. do you know that today there was an article in "the new york times" about what's going on in ohio where more than 300,000 people, voters, have been purged from -- >> right. >> and there's one guy. it says he's getting donations from his relatives. he has no money, and he's just sitting there with his computer trying to save hundreds of thousands of votes, most of them for democrats. where is the help from the dnc, from the tom steyers of the world? they're not focused on job one, which is fighting voter suppression. for this guy to be running for president instead of being out there getting the senate back, fighting voter suppression, it's really disappointing.
>> by the way, he came out with that need to impeach before he was running for president. a lot of people said, this is because you want to run for president. he said, no, it's not, but it turned out -- >> he just needs to get off the ego trip, go back to what he was doing before. >> let me play joe biden because in a lot of ways impeachment has kind of swirled around him and his family situation and the attack on him by this outside group, the three amigos they call themselves. i'm going to give this one to joel payne. here's joe biden. >> this president -- and i agree with bernie, senator sanders -- is the most corrupt president in modern history, and i think all of our history. the fact is that this president of the united states has gone so far as to say since this latest event, that in fact he will not cooperate in any way at all, will not list any witnesses, will not provide any information, will not do anything to cooperate with the impeachment. they have no choice but to move.
>> you know, joel, i don't know if you have a sense of kind of flashback that he is in the position in a lot of ways that hillary clinton, your candidate in 2016, was. how do you think he's navigating that position as differently, or is he navigating it differently than secretary clinton did? >> i don't think he's navigating it that differently at all, and i think that's what's giving a lot of heartache to a lot of establishment democrats who feel like they're seeing a replay of 3 1/2 years ago. and that is with all due respect to my former boss, the former secretary of state. donald trump can run the same campaign against joe biden that he ran against hillary clinton. he can literally take the playbook from 2016, dust it off, replace, you know, emails and clinton foundation with ukraine and hunter biden, you know, insert control delete and just run the exact same campaign. i think that's what's got a lot of democrats concerned. that's not to say that joe biden can't beat donald trump, but
it's an easy, comfortable campaign for donald trump to run. but i think what you're seeing is a difficulty in joe biden getting out of the shadow of his past in a similar way to how hillary clinton struggled as well. so i think that's a good point to bring up. >> i don't know about that. >> oh, everybody got thoughts. everyone got thoughts. we'll let you give your thoughts on the other side of the break. up next, age is just a number, unless you're running for president. >> now to the issue of candidates and their health, senator sanders, i want to start with you. we're moving on, senator. >> i'm healthy. i'm feeling great. fuel your flight. bp and fulcrum bioenergy think so. together we'll reduce emissions and landfill waste by turning garbage into jet fuel. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere.
♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot ♪ all strength. ♪ no sweat secret. all strength. no sweat. we're reporters from the new york times. no flights. no roads. we're trying to figure out what animals are being affected. galápagos is a really challenging place to work. el niño is starting to go haywire. everywhere is going to get touched by climate change. (honk!) i hear you sister.
that's why i'm partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual check-up, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel - physically and emotionally. but now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. just find a period of time to unwind. a location to de-stress. an activity to enjoy. or the name of someone to talk to. to create a plan that works for you, visit cigna.com/mystressplan. cigna. together, all the way. (alarm beeping) welcome to our busy world. where we all want more energy. but with less carbon footprint. can we have both? at bp, we're working every day to make energy that's cleaner and better. and we see possibilities everywhere. the three highest polling candidates in tonight's democratic presidential debate could not escape the subject of their age. two hours into the debate, the moderators asked how senator
bernie sanders who recently suffered a heart attack at age 78, joe biden, age 76, and senator elizabeth warren, age 70, could reassure voters they are up to the grueling physical challenge of being president. >> we are going to be mounting a vigorous campaign all over this country. that is how i think i can reassure the american people. but let me take this moment, if i might, to thank so many people from all over this country, including many of my colleagues up here, for their love, for their prayers, for their well wishes. and i just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart, and i'm so happy to be back here with you this evening. [ applause ] >> i know what the job is. i've been engaged. look, one of the reasons i'm running is because of my age and my experience. with it comes wisdom. we need someone to take office this time around who on day one can stand on the world stage, command the respect of world leaders from putin to our
allies, and know exactly what has to be done to get this country back on track. >> i will outwork, out-organize, and outlast anyone, and that includes donald trump, mike pence, or whoever the republicans get stuck with. >> we will look at the age issue and solve all the other little panel disagreements that we had before the break when we come back. there's my career... my cause... and creating my dream home. i'm a work in progress. so much goes into who i am. hiv medicine is one part of it. prescription dovato is for adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment and who aren't resistant to either of the medicines dolutegravir or lamivudine. dovato has 2 medicines in 1 pill to help you reach and then stay undetectable. so your hiv can be controlled with fewer medicines while taking dovato. you can take dovato anytime of day with food or without. don't take dovato if you're allergic to any of its ingredients or if you take dofetilide.
if you have hepatitis b, it can change during treatment with dovato and become harder to treat. your hepatitis b may get worse or become life-threatening if you stop taking dovato. so do not stop dovato without talking to your doctor. serious side effects can occur, including allergic reactions, liver problems, and liver failure. life-threatening side effects include lactic acid buildup and severe liver problems. if you have a rash and other symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking dovato and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis b or c. don't use dovato if you plan to become pregnant or during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy since one of its ingredients may harm your unborn baby. your doctor should do a pregnancy test before starting dovato. use effective birth control while taking dovato. the most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, nausea, trouble sleeping, and tiredness. so much goes into who i am and hope to be. ask your doctor if starting hiv treatment with dovato is right for you.
what are you doing back there, junior? since we're obviously lost, i'm rescheduling my xfinity customer service appointment. ah, relax. i got this. which gps are you using anyway? a little something called instinct. been using it for years. yeah, that's what i'm afraid of. he knows exactly where we're going. my whole body is a compass. oh boy... the my account app makes today's xfinity customer service simple, easy, awesome. not my thing.
my absolutely insane panel is back with us. jason, you look a little -- somehow you all look different, but i can't really -- >> i'm excited because i'm so passionate. >> vigorous, i think was the word tonight. >> i'm going to outwork and -- >> everybody. i believe that about elizabeth warren. so the age thing did come up. but you were saying earlier, to sort of blend this with our previous conversation, yes, joe biden is of a certain age. but he also is a very established brand. everybody knows who he is and
what he is. >> joe, love you to death, but you can't do to joe biden what you did to hillary clinton. uncle joe is uncle joe. people know who joe biden is. they know him from the obama administration. you can't suddenly transform him into somebody who is krupcorrup a swamp monster. unless you're bernie sanders who had a heart attack, it's not american gladiator. as long as you look spry and healthy, i don't know if age matters. >> i don't know if i agree with that. i'm going to let joel respond. >> i'm just glad to know what caused so much twitter. i didn't know what i said, so it's good to know. jason, look, that's a fair point. i don't think either hillary clinton or joe biden are corrupt. i'm talking about how the president and his machine is going to wash and repeat the same thing that they did four years ago with, you know, joe biden that they did with hillary clinton. i think that it's the same type of campaign. you can run against the
washington establishment with joe biden like you did with hillary clinton. we're not talking about reality here. donald trump is the president, okay? we're talking about how they are going to -- >> to run. >> -- blow that up. >> tiffany, the bespectacled -- can you even see? >> she looks so much smarter. >> girl power, i'm on tiffany's side. the reality is hillary clinton had a 63% approval rating after she finished her tenure as secretary of state. between the media's obsession with her emails and the way that trump characterized her, this guy whose foundation had to close in new york because it was so corrupt, managed to get the whole country to focus on her foundation and her emails, i don't know how it would be any different for biden. >> let's just remember he got the country to focus on her emails, and there was also russia depressing the vote in michigan -- >> and they're still here. >> exactly. and this time they have help from bad actors in iran backed by the iranian government and potentially help from china.
so the election should be something we should watch. look, i take your point, jason. i think the biden campaign has to be smart enough and not let donald trump lead them around and goad them into a fight. we already saw this fail with elizabeth warren with the, you know, native american -- exactly. it's a bad idea. but the media also -- i mean there are no innocent bystanders here, and you have to fault the media for this. you cannot adopt gop talking points. it feels like sometimes the media is more concerned with not offending trump voters than they are with using critical thinking required for journalism. we didn't need to have this exposé with hunter biden. until we see a money time line of javanka, who has made $82 million while donald trump has been in the white house, it's ridiculous that we're even having this conversation. yes, i take joel's point. donald trump likely would run that campaign, not because it makes sense, but it's the only campaign he knows how to run. he has no issues to run on. he has no platform to run on. he has no success to run on. i don't want you to think i'm
stealing your ideas -- >> just your glasses. >> he has not gained any new voters. >> no, he hasn't. >> jonathan, so the question becomes who would be the most challenging for donald trump to formulate that kind of campaign against? you know, this week you had the aoc, the squad endorse bernie sanders. that came out tonight. you had sanders saying elizabeth warren is a capitalist. i wonder if they think it would be easier to run against her than it would be. >> that might be the most important development of this whole week because what it allows elizabeth warren to do, if she's the nominee, when trump -- we already know he's going to run against the squad. he can say, the squad, they endorsed my opponent, like, you talking to me? but she's still vulnerable on medicare for all, and she's in a political box right now. we're going to see how she gets out of that box. it's not popular with unions and their are people who are perfectly happy with their health insurance.
>> yep. >> not popular with them to say, you know, we're going to take that choice away from you. she's going to have to figure out how to have some kind of a retreat on that. she'll probably wait as long as she can. but that's a pretty big target on her back because when she says, well, i'm only going to make the wealthy pay more, well, what's wealthy? >> right. >> on the wealth tax, that's fine for her because everybody knows they don't have $50 million. but when it comes to getting taxed for medicare for all, what's wealthy? is wealthy if you have two incomes and you make $100,000, are you going to be paying more? >> very quickly, one-word answer, who had the best night tonight, joel? quick. >> quick, pete buttigieg had a wonderful night. >> best night, tiffany. >> warren. >> best night, jason. >> pete. >> pete and klobuchar. >> all my guests tonight, continue the debate on twitter. thank you for joining me. that wraps up this hour of our special post-debate coverage. our special coverage continues
after the break. saturdays happen. pain happens. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong. i get it all the time. "have you lost weight?" of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go.
i used to book my hotel room on those traalways a catch.here was like somehow you wind up getting less. but now that i book at hilton.com, and i get all these great perks. i got to select my room from the floor plan... very nice... i know, i'm good at picking stuff. free wi-fi... laptop by the pool is a bold choice... and the price match guarantee. how do you know all of this? are you like some magical hilton fairy? it's just here on the hilton app. just available to the public, so... book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% off that stay. good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters in new york where this was day 999 of the trump administration. and the fourth democratic debate is just now wrapping up, and our coverage now begins as you can see. nicolle wallace heading up our