okay. i'm late. the wrap of this show. pretty good lately. you have to admit it, kendis gibson. a lot to get to. >> you have. a busy saturday ahead. alex, maunk. i'm kendis gibson right here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. following a lot of major developments right now on several fronts. on capitol hill another rare saturday session. house lawmakers back behind closed doors questioning a

career white house budget official about the effort to withhold aid to ukraine. on the west coast, the newest 2020 contender, deval patrick, making his first pitch to voters in southern california. a live picture of the event. and the scene as colin kaepernick gets another shot at the nfl. a team are rosters to break it down for us on this saturday. first, what week it has been in washington, d.c. and the historic twists and turns are far from over. right now behind closed doors the first official from the office of management and budget is testifying in the trump impeachment inquiry. mark sandy, his name, a senior career official with the omb, the agency by the way charged with trump's order to temporarily freeze military aid to ukraine. nbc's garrett haake is on capitol hill following this for us. another busy day there. who exactly is mark sandy and

why is his testimony considered to be so key right now? >> reporter: kendis, he's a career official at the budget office. the way one democrat explained, nos providing sexy testimony but the person that can take a political plot by donald trump to withhold this money from ukraine and translate it through the bureaucracy in actual action. someone whose desk the paperwork would have had to pass to send the $400 million, a portion of it to ukraine or stop it. explaining the government machinery behind the scenes that put this plot into action. it speaks to the importance we're standing here on a saturday and that now having already started the public phase of the inquire, a step back making sure they get information from all potential witnesses behind closed doors first. >> sandy is testifying after receiving a subpoena. right? from congress?

>> reporter: this has become commonplace here even for witnesses who probably would have come without them, but, yes. sandy received a subpoena overnight. remember, the administration put up a firewall around all members saying no one has to come and testify. we've seen that broken by state department officials. one d.o.d. official broken by folks connected to the national security council. up to now the office of management and budget, three officials subpoenaed. none had shown. at least been invited. be more specific. sandy under subpoena showing up this morning provides him a degree of protection one might thing in retaliation since he is legally obligated to attend but speaks to the difficulty democrats have had getting closer and closer to president trump and the actual decision-making process connected to this entire ukraine issue. >> mark sandy behind closed doors now at least a couple of hours. today's closed-door testimony follows a friday night surprise from the ukrainian

embassy official david holmes's in in a closed-door meeting he confirmed president trump asked the ukrainians about the bidens. that after dramatic public testimony by the former ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch. the ambassador receiving a standing ovation following her testimony and also drew allegations of witness intimidation by president trump. >> now the president in realtime is attacking you. what affect do you think that has on other witnesses' willingless no come forward and expose wrongdoing? >> well, it's very intimidating. >> and covering the white house for the "washington post" and joining us now from washington, d.c., anne, thanks for being here. even though david holmes testimony was closed door we got a lengthy copy of his opening statement making clear ambassador sondland is a key figure in this investigation.

one portion of it, i heard ambassador sondland greet the president explain he was calling from kyiv. i heard president trump clarify ambassador sondland was in ukraine. replayed, yes, in ukraine and stated president zelensky loves your ass. besides the comment of that last comment what does that exactly tell us? >> first thing it tells us, an extraordinary phone call david holmes remembers almost verbatim months later because it clearly was pretty shocking to him, and that the president is talking so loudly that gordon sondland has to hold the phone out away from his ear, his cell phone, unsecured on the terrace of a public restaurant in the middle of the day in a country that is under constant surveillance by russians but be that as it may, the fact that the president is

asking very specifically, i mean, i'll paraphrase here. what did you get? like, are they going to go ahead with the investigations? did you get that promise, is what the president is saying there. sondland says, yes, and the colorful language is one of the ways that sondland tells the president, yeah, don't worry. he's going to do what you walnt him to do. >> the ambassador, ambassador sondland called to testify publically on wednesday. >> for the third time. >> for the third time. exactly. what do you expect to hear from him? he's in a sticky situation now? >> we were going to hear from him even before this revelation from david holmes. clearly, this conversation will now be a big part of what he is questioned about by democrat, anyway. who will want to know why were you calling the president to give him this update?

and how is it that the name of biden comes up very specifically in this conversation on july 26th when you have previously told us, mr. sondland, that you didn't know anything about biden being involved with barisma and having any connection to this anti-corruption investigation until weeks or months after that? >> all right. anne garrett from d.c. thank you. appreciate it. ten democratic presidential candidates are swarming southern california now to woo 0 party leaders and activists as the state's democratic endorsing convention taking place in long beach, california. among those slated to speak, the new kid on the block, deval patrick, former governor of massachusetts. however, notably missing are two of the front-runners. former vice president joe biden and massachusetts senator elizabeth warren choosing to skip today's event as they campaign elsewhere. i note that deval patrick has taken the stage behind our josh

letterman joining us from long beach. josh, you spoke with him moments ago. what did he tell you why he's in this race? >> reporter: yes, kendis. we spoke to deval patrick just before he took the stage where he's currently speaking to the california democrats as we speak. he's trying to orient himself differently in this race than some of the other candidates who are really pushing the message that they're the candidate for the progressive left wing of the base. he wants voters to understand that he's a candidate that could appeal more to the center, to a broader cross-section of voters particularly from voters concerned about a candidate who would be able to defeat donald trump in a general election. take a listen to what he told me. >> i want to be about a positive vision that's about everyone, everywhere and not just the folks in the corners of the country who are made to matter during campaigns. or who were made to matter during fund-raising and so forth, but the folks who feel left out and left back in every corner of the country.

>> reporter: and, kendis, we've talked to a lot of folks here at this state convention for democrats in california. a lot of them not real big on the idea of deval patrick getting in the race saying that they think it's silly, think it's a bad idea, think they have plenty of candidates already in the race and don't really need another one at this late date. >> that said, when he hit the stage of a the confession, what sort of reception did he get? >> reporter: he's been getting a good reception here. people are hearing him out. he said in our interview he wants folk whose have concerns about him getting into the race now or concerns about his closeness, perceived closeness to big business to just give him a chance. hear him out and told us people should not put him into a box. >> josh letterman joining us from the california democrats' convention in long beach. appreciate it. just about an hour northeast of long beach, a vigil is expected tomorrow in santa clarita, california, to remember victims of this week's deadly

high school shooting. overnight a shooter, a 16-year-old died of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. two students at saugus high school killed in the spree. a report from the school in southern california. >> reporter: days after a 16-year-old student gunned down two classmates hoping fire with a .45 caliber handgun his motive remains a mystery. >> we did not find any manifesto, diary that spelled it out, suicide note or writings which will clearly identify his motive. >> reporter: authorities say the shooter chose his victims at random, counting out his rounds in order to save the final bullet for himself. succumbing to his injuries late friday. >> seemed very familiar with firing the weapon. >> reporter: law enforcement tell nbc news the weapon may have been a ghost gun similar to these easily purchased online and assembled at home. >> even on youtube how do it. convert the gun into a gun, not

registered and untraceable. >> one of the victims, gracie anne muehlberger. she loved anything with lots of sugar in it and her brother riley writing, you were the best sister i could have asked for. 14-year-old dominic blackwell a junior rotc student also killed. the school was prepared. >> this school did an active shooter drill just in the last few weeks. >> reporter: equipped with trauma kits. and katie hill hailed as a hero for treating an injured student. >> i did training. >> reporter: gauze and tourniquets in the classroom a grim reminder of what students face at school. >> nbc's sarah harman reporting from santa clarita. britain's prince andrew is breaking his silence revealing details of his friendship with accused sex trafficker jeffrey

epste epstein. the interview airs in less than two hours. we're getting snippets. live in london with details. what have we learned that the prince is saying right now about his relationship with epstein? >> reporter: kendis, we know he is saying epstein was a friend but denies knowledge of what took place inside epstein's house and something he hasn't deviated from in the snippets seen from this long interview that happened you mentioned inside buckingham palace and why so much anticipation was surrounding this when released. the public hearing from the prince in his own words as he continues to defend himself. >> i have no recollection of ever meeting this lady. none whatsoever. >> reporter: the duke of york firing back facing tough questions over his ties to disgraced financier jeffrey epstein. this video capturesing what

appearing tos andrew saying good-bye to a young woman at the door of epstein's mansion. sometime after designated a sex offender. >> what he had been convicted. that's the bit that -- that -- as it were, i kick myself for on a daily basis. bay it was not something that was becoming of a member of the royal family and we try and uphold the highest standards and practices and i let them down. >> reporter: back in august andrew told nbc news at no stage during the limited time i spent with him did i see, witness or suspect behavior of the sort that subsequently led to his arrest are and conviction. the duke of york denied epstein set him up years before with virginia roberts pictured here at 17. in an exclusive interview roberts described a night out as a london club. >> i'd hop in the car with

jeffrey and geeland said he's coming back to the house. and i want you to do for him what you do for epstein. i couldn't believe it. >> prince andrew, of course, denies this ever happened. >> he denies that it ever happened and he's going to keep denying it ever happened but he knows the truth, and i know the truth. >> reporter: you don't remember meeting her? >> no. >> reporter: prince andrew sticking to what he says is the truth and making those continued denials. meantime, we spoke to royal commentators saying simply by doing this interview the prince opens up more scrutiny for himself and the enfire royal family. the epstein estate wants to establish a fund that would benefit the victims and in fact signed off by a version islands judge the victims could be

receiving monetary compensation in these cases. kendis? >> and sarah ferguson, ex-wife, comes out in support of him tweeting he is a true and real gentleman. morgan chesky from london, thank you. president trump back on the defensive after live tweeting during testimony of the former ambassador to ukraine. coming up, the debate over witness tampering and freedom of speech. and colin kaepernick is getting another shot at the nfl. a look at the private training session under way with the controversial former quarterback. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed

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president trump is making use of his article 2 section 2 clause 1 powers. the pardon. these pardons however, causing an uproar. trump oerdsed full pardon of three service military members convicted are war crimes ranging from posting photos of a dead body to murder. the commander in chief is ultimate responsible for ensuring that the law is enforced and when appropriate that mercy is granted. a pardon that's seemingly been in the works since october when the president spoke critically of military trials, tweeting we train warriors to be killing machines then prosecute them when they kill. a dramatic turn of events for a death row inmate rodney reid days before his execution. the texas court of criminal appeals voting to suspend his

execution challenging this 1998 murder conviction and a wave of high-profile celebrities and lawmakers rallying for his defense. reality star kim kardashian-west says she was with reid when he received news hi lethal injection date was being stayed. where reed was convicted, that the state presented false testimony andened he should be exonerated. and overseas in hong kong, caught up in the cross fire. police seen firing tear gas as proteste protesters -- attempting to clear road blocks outside a local university today. at least five campuses barricaded this week by thousands of students and activists and for the first time since the demonstrators and demonstrations broke out, soldiers from mainland china have taken to the streets of hong kong. they were there to clear debris

and break down road blocks after one of the most violent weeks of demonstrations. the historic city of venice making history again for the wrong reasons. with its worst flooding in more than a half century, extreme high tides slammed 85% of the city engulfing some areas in six feet of water. how is this for irony? the city's own council flooding for the first time ever. just minutes after officials rejected a measure on climate change. the mayor of venice declared a state of emergency thursday says the floods caused grave damage to several landmarks including st. marc's basilica. the city is bracing for another exception's tide as it's called tomorrow. right now a new closed-door hearing on capitol hill as a new deposition in the impeachment hearing is under way. this week we got a firsthand look at the republicans' strategy as all of these hearings take place. more on the republican playbook

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welcome back. president trump is getting backlash today after form 0er ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch's testimony in the impeachment hearings. house speaker nancy pelosi saying the president's action amount to witness tampering. >> he made a mistake, and he knows her strength and he was trying to undermine it. of course presidents appoint ambassadors, but people don't insult people, especially when they're giving testimony before the congress of the united states. i think even his most ardent supporters have to honestly admit this is the wrong thing for the president to do. >> joined now by nbc's mike viqueira at the white house. good to see you again. the president is fighting back about his actions and yovanovitch? >> you know, kendis, after that dramatic episode in that hearing yesterday a break in the hearing, and reporter, tried to

get republican lawmakers on the panel and elsewhere to weigh in whether they thought it was appropriate for the president to disparage this individual while she was testifying and, of course, many saying that could be itself a grounds for impeach arement. intimidating this witness, trying to obstruct justice in the sense she was giving evidence in this hearing to try to find the facts about exactly what happened in ukraine, but the republican lawmakers, ard ntd supporters nancy pelosi was talking about didn't initially want to talk to reporters trying to work up a way to try to excuse what the president was doing and trying to treat marie yovanovitch, an individual used to be the sort of person that garnered respect in american society and culture, 33 years in the foreign service served in very dangerous places, promoting american interests trying to promote the relationships in

carriage sta kergz sta kyrgyzstan and even in somalia and the president had this defense. >> tampering is when a guy like shifty schiff doesn't let us have lawyers. tampering is is when schiff doesn't let us have witnesses, let us speak. i have the right to speak. i have freedom of speech just as other people do but they've taken away the republicans' rights. >> do you believe your words -- >> go ahead, please? >> sir, do you believe -- >> quiet, quiet. >> sir, do you believe your tweets and words can be intimidatin intimidating? >> i don't think so at all. >> reporter: marie yovanovitch giving that testimony seven hours before the committee yesterday. we've reported there are more witnesses down in the basement in private testimony and we'll hear for three consecutive days next week from some of the folks that have already testified in private, now doing so in public. kendis? >> quite a few witnesses next

week. couldn't help but note yovanovitch got a standing otheration in the house. and yovanovitch criticized other members of the administration including mike pompeo. any backlash there? >> reporter: this has been an ongoing theme. hasn't it? as a matter of fact, i talked to a number of people in line trying to get into that hearing, that initial hearing wednesday. some of whom were lifetime foreign service officers that had come to express their support and their presence for people like marie yovanovitch. for people like george kent and ambassador walker who is still the serving ambassador in ukraine. it is no secret and many of our journalists have been reporting about dissatisfaction and a sinks morale in the state department and hit at low during rex tillerson, first secretary of state in this administration. rebound rebounded somewhat and now with the president doing what he's doing and others saying what they're saying about career civil servants who, again have been traditionally respected with the u.s. government, within

washington and within the united states at large, agreed deal of dissatisfaction. >> people noting that mike pompeo's silence deafening. mike viqueira from the white house. thanks. the impeachment hearing exposing an ever-changing republican strategy and also the tension between both parties. devin nunes in a heated exchange calling the hearings democrats watergate fantasies in an effort to topple duly elected president. with me now former house oversight committee spokesperson and i want your reaction to that exchange there between schiff and ranking member nunes and republican congresswoman elise stefanik. >> i know ms. stefanik you had a few quick questions for the ambassador. yield to you. >> thank you, mr. nunes, ambassador yovanovitch -- >> the gentlemanwoman will suspend. >> what is the interruption for this time? it is our time. >> the gentleman will suspend.

the koucongresswoman is not recognized. >> it is accurate. >> that is not accurate. >> ambassador yovanovitch. >> the genwoman will suspend. you're not recognized. >> i should mention raising more than $300,000 in the last 24 hours after that performance. you know the rules and the processes of house committees like that one. explain to us why, what we just watched, what nunes was trying to attempt to do right there? >> i think in a lot of ways nunes was trying to create a moment we would all talk about today knowing perfectly well what the rules actually are. which frankly the whole ridiculous thing about this, kendis, is that the republican majorities, when they controlled the house, all of the

investigative rules wrote them when it comes to democrats dividing up time all written by republicans. their beef isn't with adam schiff with the democrats. it's with their own party and themselves for writering the rules in is way and know perfectly well you cannot yield to another person in the hearings. the only person, identified counsel's you've already represented and identified to ask those questions. in this case, steve castor. he was trying to create a moment and it's only fueled her opponent for the next election raising a ton of money getting a ton of name i.d., her following is growing and she's now become one of the most watched races in the country because of her decision for whatever reason that no one can quite explain have this tantrum on tv and totally boomeranged on her. >> and started yesterday with 6,000 followers on twitter of last check has 145,000 followers on twitter.

sort of has boomeranged indeed. how keen would you say was holmes testimony, how key that he heard president trump on the phone trying to assure ukraine's president conduct an investigation into his own political rivals? >> we've heard this week at the first two hearings on wednesday and friday republicans say, no firsthand witnesses. all we're hearing is secondhand testimony, secondhand accounts. well, now we have firsthand testimony of someone who says that they heard donald trump talk about investigating his political rivals. this is, these are the facts. what you'll see now, kendis, is the next iteration and evolution of the republican line. first it was, who's the whistle-blower? then, well, the whistle-blower doesn't matter. then it was, well, none of this really happened. a perfect phone call. then became, well, maybe something happened but if it did it's not illegal or impeachable. every time new information comes out devastating the trump line they change the goal post to defend it. now firsthand testimony from

somebody who heard this. fun to see what republicans come up to try to discredit that firsthand testimony. >> and talk about the president's reaction. a sense based and what you hear behind the scenes that the party's happy with what the president did yesterday during the testimony? >> oh, not at all, kendis. the president single handedly imploded the republican strategy for the hearing. it wasn't an accident you heard almost every republican when questioning the ambassador, do the preface, your service is appreciated. you are respected. you are a public servant dedicated. they were effusive in their praise of the ambassador's record and record of service, because trump once again decided to, he couldn't help himself, he had to tweet during the testimony, try to intimidate the witness, not just this witness and future witnesses, and trying to make this person not sympathetic. make it less about her and more

as they would say she didn't have that firsthand information. instead trump's tweet created and entire moment that dominated the entire hearing and how about we're talking about it after pap tweet that shows and illustrates how afraid trump is of actually being impeached. >> the latest there. thank you. former longtime trump adviser roger stone is a free man for now. sentencing set for february. stone found guilty of crimes including lying to congress, witness tampering and obstructing a congressional inquiry. he is, take a look, the sixth member of trump's presidential campaign to add felon to their rez anyway. mike's flinn, mike's cohen and others. joining me, cynthia, thank for being here. how much jail time is stone expected to receive and what kind of consideration go into deciding his particular sentence? >> well, he's looking at about

five years i would guess. he doesn't have priors. and one of the big considerations will be how the judge takes the threats to credi credico. if she viewed that threat, i'm going to take your dog, i'll kill you, viewed it as a violent threat he would carry out with a gun or something like that, if she views that increase sente e sentencing time. i guess about five years. >> prosecutors asked him to be locked up until sentencing. what do you think the reason the judge did not do so? >> i don't know. generally i think if a person has a conviction of seven felonies they should be locked up pending sentencing, and part of that is because i think there's, you know, there's racism in the criminal justice system, and when african-american people are i convicted of seven felonies they are locked up and i don't think

it's even. >> after the announcement president trump tweeted, the now convicted roger stone of lying and want to jail him for many years to come. what about hillary? comey, so on and so forth? >> mueller. >> yeah. did they lie? you get a sense of pardon is in stone's future? >> well, certainly stone thinks so. but you know, you never know what the president is going to do. that doesn't require a legal analysis. that requires psychoanalysis. you can look at roger stone. bad news for roger stone, and it's m manafort and cohen. manafort you get, distanced. the relationship with cohen is chloe and he is sitting in jail. were i stone i would be particularly worried about it. the other person interested in this pardon is sondland. ambassador sondland has lied to the congress, just likes stone. he's been caught.

just like stone. and he has to testify again on wednesday, and he needs to make decisions about if he's going to come clean or not. so the stone conviction makes a difference to sondland and whether or not he's going to get a pardon makes a difference to sondland, too. >> the domino effect that took place there in that d.c. court. thank you. former massachusetts governor deval patrick making his voice heard. speaking on the campaign trail first time since announcing his presidential bid two days ago. the message he is making to voters. and hosting the next democratic debate live from atlanta. moderators, andrea mitchell, rachel maddow and two others. what voters need to know. watch the next debate wednesday at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. on msnbc. you

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in just four days msnbc and the "washington post" host the fifth democratic debate featuring ten candidates, two fewer than last month, but just when we thought the field might be narrowing, former massachusetts governor deval patrick enters the race though not on the stage there in atlanta, he did address california voters within the last hour as a party convention. >> i am not running, my friends,

to be president of the democrats. i am running to be president of the united states. there's a difference. i'm not talking about a moderate agenda. this is no time for a moderate agenda. >> msnbc contributor adrian elrod joins me now. you previously worked with hillary clinton's campaign. you see how all of this is happening and playing out on the democratic side. do you get a sense people wanted more candidates in this race? >> no, kendis, i don't. i mean, we have 17 candidates who are still running. we've had some really qualified candidates who unfortunately got out of the race because they couldn't raise the money, they couldn't maintain a top tier campaign, and couldn't get themselves in many cases on the debate stage so i don't quite understand what governor deval's path is here. at this stage of the game a lot of top-tier staff and talent out there in the democratic party for the picking are already on

other campaigns. so when it comes to fund fund-raising, making that debate stage, the dnc has ambitious but important donor thresholds in place. for this next debate you've got to raise, donations from 165,000 people in 20 states obviously the governor want qualify for that, but will he catch up for those in the future? i don't understand the path for him in this race. >> a lot of people are picking up from your former boss, hillary clinton saying many, many people calling her encouraging her to get in the race. who are these people? >> well, kendis, i'm sure a lot of donors from 2016 and just a lot of voters. you've got to keep in mind 66 million people voted for hillary clinton in 2016. certainly people are encouraging her to run. she's made that very clear. i've heard from a lot of people

who wish she would run. but i think she also knows this is a very hard stage of the game to get in the race for anybody. that ranges from deval patrick to hillary clinton especially in terms of the fact there are states that now have closed the deadline to qualify for the ballot. starting to get to that critical stage here where for anybody in the race, jumping in, anybody new, will have a hard time qualifying to some of these ballots. no question people want be hillary clinton to run but at this point a field is likely set. >> the deadline in new hampshire was just yesterday. last night former president barack obama told an influential group of donors to essentially calm down saying, democratic voters and certainly persuadable independents or even moderate republicans are not driven by the same views that are reflected on certain, you know, left-leaning twitter feeds or the activist wing of our party. what do you think he's aiming at in that message? >> well, i'm glad he made these

comments and glade they've gotten out into the media. he's making a very important point. this campaign will not be fought and won on twitter. 7% of democratic primary voters are on twitter, that social platform yet a lot of us including myself are so focused what the twitter sphere, pundits, reporters, what influencers on twitter are saying about the race that it sometimes can influence you. he made a very important point which is the left base of the party which does have a very prominent voice on twitter is not exactly where every single democratic primary voter is. there's a lot of voters out there who are voting in the primary and don't want to see medicare for all implemented. they want to see obamacare care fixed obviously not repealed. they want to see fixes to some of the obama-era policies that this administration worked hard to implement. by the way, worked hard to implement policies under a

democratic controlled congress. so i think he's just basically saying, let's not get ahead of our skis here, guys. let's really focus on the fact that we've got to win this race. we've got to beat donald trump, but let's not let the entire left wing of the party drive the agenda here. >> yes. as we look at the agenda, at least the plan for the debate coming up in four days, do we get a good sense the conversation will center around impeachment? the candidates' policy or a little mix of both? didn't mention impeach money at all at the last debate? >> kendis, i hope we don't talk a lot about impeachment. first of all, talking about it 24/7 on the news. which is great. we need to cover it. the candidates many themselves wants to talk about the kitchen table issues they believe will allow them to beat donald trump and what they'll do for the american people. health care, fixing health care. raising wages, improving

education, restructuring our criminal justice system. that's what they want to talk about and don't want to hear where a candidate stands on impeachment. i hope what has happened so far in previous debates, focusing only issues as opposed to impeachment and knowing the four debate moderator i have a feeling that will be is kand-ca talking more about women's issues we've heard frankly very little of in previous debates, given four female moderators, msnbc is hosting i have a feeling we'll hear more of those issues. >> and talk about minorities issues as were ll. thanks to you. is the controversy over or just about to ramp up all over again. coming up, quarterback colin kaepernick known for kneeling during the national anthem and now is getting a second chance to return to the gridiron. nyquil severe gives you powerful relief

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harshest penalties ever. it happened between the cleveland browns and pittsburgh steelers. browns defensive end myles garrett suspended indefinitely with other players facing lesser suspensions, both teams order to pay a quarter million dollars in fines. now to georgia and apparently it might be a day three years in the making. i say apparently. colin kaepernick is supposed to begin an nfl tryout right now. but we just found out from his lawyers that it has been moved to another facility in atlanta, and they say it will happen at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. this was the location in flowery branch supposed to happen there. this is an, in an unprecedented saturday session for the athlete and act stlaft attracted a handful of supporters and demonstrators there. kaepernick hasn't played in the nfl since new year's day 2017 after a season of kneeling during the national anthem and sparking a national controversy.

nbc's blayne alexander in atlanta for us. blayne? >> reporter: kendis, what's interesting about this is that this is scheduled to be a closed event. a closed workout. media not allowed inside, but what we've seen all day really is this kind of constant stream of people coming out here sitting outside of the gates here behind me because they want to send a message to colin kaepernick. the overwhelming majority of people we've talked to are here to support kaepernick. one man drove from two hours away wearing kap's number 7 jersey and a sign that says, "i'm with kap." a couple on the other side saying, he's unpatriotic and get out of my town. controversial. since he played his last game in the nfl, three years, there are very strong feelings on both sides. take a look. >> i'm not here to disparage anybody or any organization or anything like that. i'm simply here to lift up the

flag of the united states. my message is simply this -- i love my country. the flag deserves respect. >> i just wanted to support colin kaepernick and his comeback to the nfl. basically what happens is, a lot of times this gets mixed up on who's right and who's wrong. i believe he should have the freedom of the voice and opinion that he has, because that's his belief. >> once again, i don't mean to cut off blayne. once again, appears as if something -- crazy has happened within the last couple of hours with all of this. kaepernick was set right there at the atlanta falcons training facility to take the field and to practice in front of at least some 11 teams, but within the last few moments his lawyers have tweeted a message saying that they have moved the location, because they wanted an open press, and they want to be able to have a private film crew to be able to film his practice,

and mr. kaepernick requests legitimate process from the outset and the league has not done that. most recently they say the nfl demanded that as a precondition to the workout mr. kaepernick signed an unusual liability waiver that addresses employment-related issues. when we thought this was at least the end of it and three years of trying to get back on the field was coming to an end or moving forward, it does appear there's something else that is going on. we'll keep an eye on this. coming up, right here, a controversial decision from the white house. president trump pardoning three members of the military accused or convicted of war crimes. why he went against advice from the pentagon. t against advice the pentagon. easi on that. so you can post this... ...score this...

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busy saturday arn. i'm kendis gibson at msnbc world headquarters in new york. now behind closed doors another key witness testifying in the impeachment investigation on capitol hill. there you see him. mark sandy, a longtime white house budget employee has broken ranks and now the first official from the office of management and budget to testify. the omb play as critical role in foreign aid and sandy could fill in gaps about the withholding of money to ukraine. nbc's garrett haake is following all of it at this rare saturday

session, his hearing on capitol hill. a lot of eyes focusing on this testimony today. >> reporter: right, kendis. i talked to a couple memberance leaving this closed-door testimony and described it as fairly technical. one democrat explained they wanted to talk to sandy about how the president might have taken this idea of withholding this $400 million in military aid for ukraine and translated it through the federal bureaucracy so the money did not move. unlike if you or i owe money not venmooing $400 million across the atlantic. a lot of bureaucratic wheels have to turn in this case did not. lawmakers are trying to do the classic washington scandal work here and follow the money. trying to figure out exactly what did not happen in this case. so not expecting any big, sexy bombshells out of this testimony but it's very important for democrats as they try to put together to a complete narrative of what they believe was going on between this white house and ukraine. >> there were question about werther sandy would be there in the first place.

at the end, he was subpoenaed? >> reporter: that's right. a lot of these witnesses are ultimately subpoenaed the morning of to ensure they do attend. part is this firewall the white house put up around really the whole administration. remember, the white house, the state department, other agencies, tried to discourage strongly as they can any of these witnesses from showing up and testifying at all. part of what makes sandy valuable is he is among three different employees or officials at omb asked to come testify, but the first to do so. the dam broke earlier with the state department. at least one witness from the defense department, several from thna surity council. this is a crucial missing piece. how this happened in the entire ukraine operation. >> considered technical, not sexy, as garrett haake has said.

president trump exercised his power as commander in chief reversing the sentences of three military members. the three convicted or accuses of war crimes. we're joined from the white house with mike viqueira. the defense secretary and army secretary pushed back. why did the president do this? >> reporter: a great question. right, very controversial. those involved with military justice have been on the record objecting to the president essentially shortcircuiting the process. the courts-martial and even the process by which presidents are empowered by the constitution to issue these it kinds of pardons. the white house releasing an emotional video as army lieutenant clint lorance was reunited after six years with his family. he was to serve a 19-year sentence for murder of two afghan civilians in 2012. the president also, the president also lightening or

clearing the sentences of two other individuals. as you report, kendis, members from the pentagon many people there are not crazy about the way the president has gone about that. again, shortcircuiting the process of military justice. the pentagon, however, issuing a statement that says in part, the president has the authority to weigh in on matters of this nature. the president also restored the rank, remember, a very controversial case, out in california. navy s.e.a.l. edward gallagher was acquitted on murder charges after a long trial, dramatic recanting of testimony in that procedure. the president restoring the rank of that particular navy s.e.a.l. and major thamatthew goldstein issued a pardon and no longer facing murder charges in a military tribunal. >> in all of that, mike, just got developing news now. we understand the president is actually paying a visit to nearby walter reed. what do we know about that? >> reporter: right. this periodically happens.

we believe, it's reported by the pool of reporters that travels with the president that he is there getting a physical. this is obviously something the president habitually or regularly does, i should say. walter reed, complex run by the u.s. army located in bethesda, this afternoon. we'll let you know more as we get it. >> thanks, mike viqueira. a question many have asked since 2016. will we see president trump's taxes? the answer may now lie with the supreme court. president trump has asked the justices to block a subpoena by the house to release his tax returns. msnbc's legal contributor is here to shed light on all of this. katie, this isn't exactly new. trump's lawyers already asked the high court to reverse rulings regarding a new york

case. >> reporter: that's right, and so let's be clear, kendis. trump is the first president in more than 40 years who has not voluntarily turned over his tax returns. so allowing that to be the background what we're about to talk about, there's two pending requests, frankly, by donald trump to the united states supreme court to hear his appeals. one that has to do with a manhattan d.a. to an accounting firm and that subpoena asks for eight years of donald trump's tax returns, financial documents, et cetera. that one has already been filed. the petition to the supreme court has already been filed saying, please take our case. in that case involving the manhattan d.a.'s office, kendis, you need to have four justices to agree to hear the case. the other one that trump went to the supreme court for on friday is basically asking the supreme court to enter a stay of a mandate meaning asking for the appellate court to basically not

have mazar's again release financial returns, financial statements. important about that case is the subpoena includes the underlying source documents. what do you mean by that? the tax returns are one thing. the tax returns are based on credit card statements, bank statements, et cetera. that has also been subpoenaed by the house oversight committee and right now donald trump, he's really looking at the clock, because if he doesn't get that stay from the supreme court, that stay takes five justices to agree, then those returns will be released on wednesday of next week. >> oh. so we -- it could come at any point at this point? >> reporter: yes. basically the supreme court says, sorry donald trump we won't enter the stay, mazar's the company will release all of that financial information on wednesday of next week, which is november 20th. >> white a ly a lot of people a paying attention if they want any part over this battle and

the president's taxes. thank you. roger stone's days as a free man are now numbered. the longtime trump associate will be sentenced in february after being found guilty of seven federal felonies including lying to congress, witness tampering and could be struction of congressional inquiry making stone the sixth member of the trump campaign to be convicted following paul manafort, michael flynn, michael cohen, pop dom li -- papadopoulos. a lot of names on that list. what does this say that mueller's investigation has led to six trump alliy convicted or pleading guilty? >> says bad things about them. these are not people you typically want to associate with known criminals if you're the president of the united states. some folks helped him in his dpan, very high up in hi campaign, others trump labeled coffee boys, but roger stone is unique in that roger stone and trump were probably closer than any of these other defendants,

and if there is a pardon in the future, my money is on roger stone. >> more so than manafort or flynn or the others for that matter. a sense stone will get the maximum? >> no, he will not get the maximum. talking about charges before they're convicted the metric, number we have, statutory maximum. makes sense to report that. but the statutory maximum is a horrible predictor of the ultimate sentence because it's arrived at adding all all possible sentences, statutory maximum for each and leads to decades and decades. probably going to be somewhere on the order of zero to six months, zero to 12 months, 12 to 24 months. nothing like a statutory maximum. >> this was barr's prosecutors, william barr's prosecutors prosecuting this particular

case. did you find it interesting they kind of took on the trump campaign and donald trump quite a bit right there's during their case? >> no. not surprising at all. federal prosecutors have to exercise their independent judgment when prosecuting cases. they are not partisan. some of the appointed positions, maybe criticize as partisan. you get to line prosecutors whether democrats or republicans, they have one interest. one political party, and that is fair irti ferreting out crime, that is justice. they are not partisan folks on the line prosecuting cases. >> danny cevallos, thank you. >> thank you. and new efforts to bring the g7 summit to a trump property. newly uncovered secret service emails are showing contradicting the president's previous claim thats. another controversy brewing at the white house. this one over trump's main adviser stephen miller and a new cause for his resignation. anpss

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the president claimed back in august that one of his florida golf resorts was a top contender for the g7 summit. amp the secret service and other officials toured various locations. now a newly uncovered separate service email suggests otherwise. the email obtained and released by a watchdog group in washington shows agents were told to add trump's doral resort

to the list of finalist late in the game. the july 12th email directly contradicts the president's claims officials preferred his site near miami with one official noting, "the property presents some challenges." the president abruptly canceled plans to host the summit at his resort after heavy criticism. calls continue this weekend for the resignation of president trump's main adviser on mi emails in which stephen miller appears to promote a range of white nationalist content and ideas. the southern poverty law center says the messages obtained were sent by miller to conservative website breitbart news and how later invited into making policy decisions and discussions by the white house. joining me now a chief investigative reporter with the southern povly law centers hatewatch group. you broke the story on this. what stood out to you the most from your investigation and what

you found? >> thank you. i'm grad to be helad to be here. most important for your awed ya audience and people to understand, the website and interests of mr. miller deal with race science and eugenics. this raises serious questions -- >> what does ta mehat mean? >> these are writers who believe non-whites are predisposed to have lower iqs than white people. this means that -- that white people are superior to people who are non-white, and if what is happening at the border, for example, is based upon those kind of ideas, we have a very serious concern on our hands. >> you're saying that the president's key adviser on immigration, one of the key things that he takes note of was

1924 immigration law? >> yes. in 1965 we passed an immigration law that did away with quota laws. an interest in calvin coolidge who signed the act into law, which was, again, based on eugenics and race science. things that had been debunked. literally like believing in turning lead into gold. it's 100 years ago. this is really scary stuff, and not only is it scary, it's extremely dehumanizing to non-whites in america. >> the white house released a statement calling your organization discredited, and accusing your report of trafficking in anti-semitism. >> i think that's, you know, they don't have anything else to say because they know these are his emails. i mean, you can see the type of reporting that i have done about anti-semitism in america and i think it stands for itself. >> part is, they say, denying

mr. miller's jewish identity purposely denying it? >> that's, i mean, utterly ridiculous and has nothing to do with whether he believes that, you know, people who are of latin descent are less human than whites, what many of the writers he apparently reads believes. >> after you read all of this and saw the emails what conclusion did it bring you to with mr. miller? >> well what it brought me to is that a lot of the cruelty we see in america's immigration policy may be coming from the most extreme corners of, you know, far right thinking in the world. that is a very terrifying prospect and sets us back as a country, you know, 100 years. >> how would you say and encapsulate all this? your investigation and the timing? because you have the supreme court considering ending daca at the same time? >> you can take all of these it different immigration policies

that justifiably have all our allies who defend immigrants in this country up in arms, take all of these things and take a look what stephen miller believes and what he says he believes in his emails, and you can make a clear parallel. the stuff is connected. in a very big way. >> michael, thank you. >> thank you very much. now to breaking news and that new twist we're getting in former nfl quarterback colin kaepernick's effort to get back in the game. just moments ago the location and time of an unprecedented tryout has been moved. according to the kaepernick camp, the change is due to recent decisions made by the nfl that kaepernick felt were not transparent. nbc's blayne alexander joins us live on the phone with the latest on all of this. blayne, what sense are you getting why they're making this change? >> reporter: kendis, this is really an unusual twist to what is already a very unprecedented event.

right? so this is something that was just announced maybe 15 minutes ago or so that the location is changing. no longer at the falcons fast. instead to a high school about an hour or so away. so we know that it's, it appears that colin kaepernick and his team were upset with the way things were being handled by the nfl. they were upset from the get-go. i'll read a little of the statement you quoted elderer. from the out jet mr. kaepernick requested a legitimate process and from the outset the nfl league office has not provided one. so one of the big changes is now this is going to be held in what appears to be an outside location. so media unlike the first planned workout, media will be allowed to attend. this is apparently something that colin kaepernick requested himself. he writes, mr. kaepernick requested the media be allowed in to film and because still there to ensure transparency. something the nfl had initially

denied. so a lot of pieces and seems like there is a disagreement over the terms between colin kaepernick and the nfl. >> appears as if somebody in this case is pulling an inaudible, turns out to be kaepernick and his team right now. blayne, you were out at the atlanta falcons training facility a little earlier. did you get a sense that kaepernick's team even made it there? >> reporter: yes. we know that there were some members there because they announced the change to our producer and those here on the ground. what i will say also we've been seeing here, kendis, kind of a steady stream of supporters throughout the day coming and going. and soon as that change was made, somebody came out, one of the supporters announced to the crowd, hey, here's where it is going to be. everybody hopped in their cars and made a mad dash as the media

did because they want to be there as well. you're seeing a group of people who are coming out wearing his jersey, people who drove from hours away. fraternity members dressed in red showing support. hair going to make the hour drive to get to the new location and show support there as well. kendis, all that set aside the most important thing what exactly is going to come from today? the big question a lot of people have had. is there hope of kaepernick coming back or a p.r. stunt on behalf of the nfl? some people suggested this. we know there will be 25 teams represented there today. the rest of those who aren't going to make it, the league will send out video not only of his performance on the field but an interview as well and see what exactly comes of this. >> do you get a sense many of those teams will make the change and going -- right now it doesn't appear as if this would

be an nfl-sanctioned move? >> reporter: well, it seems that there are a lot of things left up in the air. in the statement is says representatives from clubs are invited to attend and will be provided the location. so seems that they are really trying to push, again, kaepernick's team trying to push for transparency in all this. this is an outside stadium. [ inaudible ] something that is behind the stated security area. a lot more transparent. >>atlanta area there. just to recap, colin kaepernick you know after three years being sidelined was due to do a practice today, this hour even, in atlanta at the atlanta falcons training facility. about a dozen or so teams were expected to watch him try out. there was an unusual request by the nfl during the mid-season on a saturday before football sunday to have him do a tryout. he said, sure.

i'll be game, but they say according to his team, the nfl asked for some unusual liability waiver and also wanted to be closed to press. colin kaepernick and his team balked at that and moved it to another facility in the atlanta area. teams and media are welcome. what that facility is, they still haven't said, even though they said it will start at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. so never a dull moment in this soap opera that has taken place just when we thought it could be whanging f ing changing for kaepernick. we'll see. we'll be right back. we'll see. we'll be right back. oh! oh! oh!

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♪ after six weeks and more than 100 hours of closed-door hearings the impeachment inquiry is going public with more than 13 million people watching. the first day of the hearing on tv and many more online and on social. where does it go from here? nbc's heidi przybyla breaks it down. >> this is the first in a series of public hearings the committee will hold as part of the house's impeachment inquiry. >> reporter: the impeachment hearing goes public. details from past and present

allegations president trump withheld crucial military aid to ukraine, unless that country opened an investigation into mr. trump's political rivals. >> it's one thing to try to leverage a meeting in the white house. it's another thing, i thought, to leverage security assistance. >> it became clear to me giuliani's effort to gin up plit litt politically -- >> which have been served when the very thing we are criticizing is allowed to prevail. >> reporter: william taylor a phone call between president trump and u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland. >> a member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. following the call with president trump the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland

what president trump thought about ukraine. mr. sondland responded that president trump cared more about the investigations of biden. >> reporter: also testifying acting deputy assistant secretary of state george kent and former u.s. ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch who shared her response to a july 25th call between president trump and the leader of ukraine. >> what did you think when president trump told president zelensky that you were going to go through some things? >> i didn't know what to think. but i was very concerned. >> did you feel threatened? >> i did. >> reporter: during the hearing president trump slammed her record saying everywhere marie yovanovitch went turned bad. a comment the former ambassador responded to in realtime. >> i actually think that where i served over the years i and others have demonstrably made

things better. >> reporter: democrats using the hearings to highlight what they call bribery, corruption and abuse of power. >> there's a lot of legal terms to describe what the president was trying to do. but i think for most of us it was just wrong. >> reporter: republicans arguing the claims are based on nothing more than hearsay. >> every time it gets close to the president of the united states, it is clear knno conditionality. >> they're unraveling and their sinister plans will fail. >> reporter: public hearings continue this week with eight government officials scheduled to testify. >> our thanks to heidi przybyla reporting the eu ambassador gordon sondland is the key witness set to testify wednesday and undoubtedly be asked about that certain phone call with president trump that took place on july 26th. in a new op-ed from the "washington post" that speaks to the divide inside the white

house at least in washington as well. it's the wise men versus the wise guys in trump's america. it writes in part here -- the moment of decision between the wise men and the wise guys on wednesday was subtle but clear. it came when republican representative turner noted that diplomats such as taylor and kent dealing words of understanding, words of beliefs and feelings, because in your profession that's what you work with to try to pull together policy. so begs the question what's really a play in washington, and in president trump's america right there. somebody who would know, no doubt. white house plolitico's white house correspondent joining me now. does it ring true that the president is surrounded by a few wise guys versus wise men? >> well, i think that that piece sort of highlighted just the difference that president trump has made. i mean, there's been no president like him.

sounds silly at this point. we know that. but he came from a completely different world which that talk it's about. he came from the new york real estate world. he deals with deals. one-on-one deals and what he's comfortable with. always i'm going to give you this, what can you give me in return? a different mentality than i think a lot of these people that have been around career officials, career diplomats, that have been around for years understand. >> how are these, would you say, these two separate factions then play out when it comes to the president's own policies? >> well, he's the president of the united states and gets to make the calls. that's really what this is about. right? instead of having these career diplomats do the foreign policy related to ukraine, he outsourced it, really. he had his personal attorney rudy giuliani do things. he also had other people that worked for him but were not really in the chain of command do things. like the energy secretary. although he does work for the president you would think these it career diplomats, who are

responsible for ukraine would have been able to help with that, but they were as marie yovanovitch just said, they were sidelined. >> different channels at play, according to ambassador taylor. you're there, anita, in the white house every day. who do you get a sense that the president is turning to as his right-hand men or women to try to navigate him through this whole impeachment process that is taking place? is it rudy, ivanka, none of the above? >> the president has done this before, kind of calling people and talking to different people that may be friends outside of the white house. we do hear, i know this changes a lot but we do hear that the acting chief of staff mick mulvaney you mentioned sort of have been sidelined, i do think he has his family around and obviously really working with the white house counsel's office, because they are dealing with the legal part of this. but there are, there is a group of people at the white house that are last week and will do

this, this week sort of getting together, have an organized effort to respond in realtime. it's something they did during the brett kavanaugh supreme court hearings and done in the past when robert mueller testified. they are responding in realtime. the president, you know, kind of does his own thing. we saw it when he tweeted and surprised people doe ed bot ed house and on capitol hill tweeting comments mentioned against marie yovanovitch. >> politico's white house correspondent. thank you. >> sure, thank you. making his case to the country. deval patrick speaking at a campaign event first time since jumping into the race for the white house. his message to voters in southern california. and this wednesday, msnbc and the "washington post" hosting the next democratic debate. at 9:00 p.m. eastern time as the ten top candidates take the stage in atlanta only on msnbc.

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today voters in louisiana are heading to the polls in the runoff race for governor. republican candidate eddie rispone vying to unseat the incumbent. the candidates are in a runoff because neither won a majority in the october election. edwards is the only democratic governor in the deep south. this week president trump rallied for rispone, a republican political donor and businessman and analysts say

trump views the race of ace hen popularity heading into 2020 especially there in louisiana. meantime, ten presidential candidates are in california at the democratic endorsing convention. deval patrick gave his first speech. however missing from today's event, these two. joe biden and elizabeth warren choosing to campaign elsewhere. our road warrior is at the event and joins me now. josh letterman. what are democrats there in california telling you about the concept of deval patrick getting in the race at this point? >> reporter: kendis, we haven't found any one here at the state party convention that as i could about deval patrick getting in the race. a lot of folks saying we already have some two dozen candidates in the race and don't need

another one. a lot of voters are raising concerned base the on deval patrick's history working as an executive, he might be too cozy with big business. interviewing deval patrick a little bit ago and asked whether that criticism is fair. take a listen. >> i'd seay be careful not to put me in a box. i don't fit in one. i've done civil rights law and civil rights leader at the justice department. i have worked in not for profits, worked in business as well. frankly, to solve our problems we're going to need a range of perspectives. going to need people who understand the inside of industry and the folks who understand the inside of advocacy and the people who feel left out and left behind. >> reporter: and kendis, we've also been talking to other folks here who are a little more positive about deval patrick getting in the race, but one thing that came up that was

really interesting. talking to reporters a few minutes ago asked about his work for bain capital. that private equity firm mitt romney worked for. obama hit hard on that in 2012. he said i was co-chair of that obama campaign 2012 and disagreed with that attack line then and disagree with it now. you see perhaps a little distance starting to form between deval patrick and the former president. >> meantime, how are they feeling about bind and warren deciding to skip this big event? >> reporter: we haven't heard much criticism of that. they have seemed to understand that the candidates are really busy, have a lot of different states to get to. both of those candidates warren and biden have campaigned here in california. so they have been accessible to voters here and so far not too much concern about that. >> there might be another one, with some people saying that bloomberg might announce as early as tuesday. nbc's josh letterman joining us, thank you. with just four days until

the fifth president's debate many of us thought the field of candidates would keep narrowing. well, despite that new face in the race, wednesday in atlanta hosted by the "washington post" and msnbc will only, and i do say only, only feature ten candidates. joining me now, rochelle richey former press secretary for house communication and communications committee. welcome. >> hi, kendis. >> good to see you. you hear deval patrick is running really hard late into the race. politico had an article i want to point to you. share amount of logistical work needed to catch up is staggering. tat trick's campaign would need to hire as many as 90 staffers to match the sanders campaign, rent a dozen office spaces throughout the state to compete with pete buttigieg, and make tens of thousands of voters contact to even begin to approach elizabeth warren's outreach. biden has relationships here, and in iowa going back more than

three decades. how hard is it going to be for him to pull anything off? >> obviously, you look at those numbers seems like it's quite impossible, but i do not think this is necessarily a ploy by deval patrick to become the next president of the united states. i think that this is a way to introduce him to the american voters so he can be the next vp pick by one of the current presidential candidates. here's why. patrick has what i will call an obama anointing. you look at his background, his family, he's a black man, married to a black woman, two daughters. you know? harvard law graduate. grew up, single mom on the south side of chicago. he has a lot of that obama factor behind him. then also, before attorney general eric holder was nominated by obama for that position there was a lot of rumors it would be deval patrick. when holder left another rumor

him instend became loretta lynch. this is sort of a way to introduce him to the american people so they will have him as potential vp. >> also a lot of rumor kamala harris was up for the a.g. job as well. so -- as we look ahead to the debate wednesday, do we get a sense the conversation is going to focus still more so on the policies or is impeachment going to rear it's head there? >> i hope they do not focus much on impeachment. the going to be really hard to already sort of pull the attention of americans into the debate in the first place, because next week we have so many impeachment hearings now leading headlines, but hoping that with these candidates being in atlanta, hoping they use this as an opportunity, because i think trump was there just last week and announced his black voter coalition. he bragged about the unemployment rate of african-americans, which is typical of him and his pundits. however, i want these candidates to really tell the truth about black unemployment in america and really look at the local,

the local unemployment rates as opposed to national. look in it atlanta, the tlat is 11.5% compared to 2.5% for white americans. so that's very important for them to start really telling the truth about these numbers that we keep hearing coming from the white house. >> yes. and many democratic candidates have not focused on that. >> they do not focus on it. they are not taking -- taking talking points and saying, oh, yes, it's great, but trump's a race youist. we're black in america we don't need to tell you who is racist and who is not. get down to the nitty-gritty what the numbers represent. even medicare for all, talking about that. something else. >> the impact. >> exactly. >> thank you. see you in a second. >> okay. he called it a mission. not a show. kanye west performing for inmates in houston. the surprise coming before he speaks at a mega church for joel osteen, the televangelist is

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these two would get in business if he would change better recognize the name ♪ >> yo, harvard is lit. maybe the u.s. presidential candidates will take a cue from this successful duo in harvard. this was a campaign video for james matthew and iffy what thorp as they ran for harvard university president and vp their colleagues created this specially crafted campaign song and dance video with the hook harvard can't wait. the video won the internet and they won the election. kamala harris and cory booker among those who praised the video. pretty cool. lost in the shuffle of the impeachment proceedings mentions of two american pop culture icons right here in the impeachment inquiry with david holmes' private testimony. he told investigators trump and sondland discussed not only a sap rocky but kim kardashian as well in their phone call. nothing quite sums up the intersection of pop culture and politics more than that right now. impeachment, asap, kim kardashian.

back with me my guests as we talk about pop culture and politics. let's start with kim kardashian west's husband, kanye. so he performed at two prisons in texas on friday as much as you can do a pop up concert. you can see right there the director at the harris county sheriff's office tweeted this saying, say what you want about the man, but can ya brougkanye light to people who needed it today. do you give him some credit, rochelle? >> yes. because i can separate church and state if you will. when i saw the video i cannot judge kanye's walk with god and i will not judge his walk with christ. whatever is working for him to fulfill his spiritual life, good for him. i don't know if anybody else out there watches first 48 but i do and you learn a lot about harris county. to see him go into that jail where you see the very horrific stories and crime that happens in that community and to do this is very admirable.

however, this does not take away from the fact that i completely disagree with his political banter in support of donald trump. >> what if he said some political stuff right there in that audience? >> freedom of speech. >> all right. danny, you care to weigh in on kanye west's new spiritual awakening? >> well, i'm totally behind performing in prisons. those folks don't get to see a lot of concerts. i know. i've been to prison. they're not pleasant places. >> let's talk about, continue to talk about texas because we have rodney reed who is convicted of murdering a woman some 23 years ago. reed was set to be executed on friday before an appeals court stepped in to suspend his death sentence. of course many celebrities have weighed in on his case and now we had this unanimous appeal and stay of execution. why did the court do this? >> this is intriguing to me because i actually handle wrongful conviction cases.

the appeals court in texas sent it back down to the trial court on three bases. one is a brady violation. this is when the prosecution fails to turn over exculpatory evidence. the second is false testimony. now, these first two are not all that uncommon, shockingly. sometimes the prosecution doesn't turn over all the evidence it should and, believe it or not, witnesses recanting testimony is not that uncommon, either. but it's the third instance that i find the most interesting, which is his claims of actual innocence. that is a little bit more rare than other kinds of claims at this habeas level as we call it. to prove actual innocence is quite a challenge. in the wrongful conviction context burden in the civil case is on the former defendant to prove his innocence in a civil case. just to give you an idea when it comes to actual innocence that is quite a different thing than a technical violation. in the civil context. in the criminal context actual innocence to me signals there is some real evidence of innocence.

>> and should celebrities get into something like this? >> this is an interesting thing with kim kardashian west. i think what she is doing is also very admirable as much as her husband going in and singing gospel songs to prison inmates. but i think there is another part of the story that is not being told and that is the fact that she in the past, i don't know if she is still doing this, but she was working with a project called buried alive. there were two african-american attorneys kimberly barnett and these are the women that were really behind the work and the legal effort that it takes to get, you know, these inmates out of jail or off of death row. so we don't hear about them because of the face of kim kardashian west but those are the women that are really behind these sort of movements that are happening. >> it really is making a difference for many of these folks. we're running out of time. taylor swift caught up in a feud with the producer of her old hits, not able to perform her

old hits at the amas this month. what is at play here? >> it is really confusing. it is a confusing conflict but at its core a record company owned her masters, her original music. they sold it, which is not that uncommon in the music industry although taylor swift's catalog is massive compared to most other artists so that's really the legal battle at this stage. >> it's a battle that many artists, black artists have been fighting for years as well. >> yes, forever. >> thank you. appreciate it. a second saturday session under way but as the impeachment inquiry ramps up attorney general bill barr is speaking out and slamming democrats. his comments, next.

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that'll do it for me. thanks for watching this hour of msnbc live. i'll be back tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. i'm online all the time at twitter and instagram. the news continues now with richard lui. busy day ahead still. >> no doubt my friend kandis. we'll see you tomorrow. our richard lui live from msnbc headquarters here in new york city. thanks for being with us, watching day 53 of the impeachment hearings with another administration official testifying on capitol hill today. it is part of an historic week in america as the ratings show viewers more than doubled this week just to hear for the first time three officials telling their stories in public hearings and answering questions from house intelligence members.