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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  November 27, 2019 10:00am-11:00am PST

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leading on with halie jackson, we love you and we'll miss you. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." >> happy thanksgiving to all of you. >> casey always has a great thing to say, helpful thing to do. we are not going to miss her because we'll see her some where else but we'll miss her on your show. andrea, thank you. >> coming up at this hour on "velshi & ruhle," we got new critical information about the timinging of the whistleblower' complaint and president trump release of aid to ukraine. we'll tell you what trump knew and when this could be big for the impeachment inquiry. president trump keeps on losing the battle, is he winning the war? we'll dig into the strategy. dire new warnings on tclimate change. can the next administration save this or is it too late?
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bomb shell new report from "the new york times," president trump knew about concerning of dealings with ukraine when he chose to released aid to ukraine, lawyers from the white house briefed the president about the complaint in late august. the timeline is important. that means that president trump knew about the whistleblower's complaint at two key moments, when he decided to release $391 million security assistance to ukraine and when he spoke to gordon sondland, telling him he didn't want any quid pro quo. this is important. joining us is julian, the man who broke the story. >> there is a lot of things that
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feel like drip, drip, drip, underscore development of the main one. this is a piece of news that's remarkably important. when the president spoke with his choice, ambassador sondland on the phone and told him he didn't want quid pro quo, donald trump according to your reporting knew that he was being scrutinized specifically for the idea that he may held back this money as a quid pro quo for investigating joe biden. that's right. you put your finger on the most important part of why this really expands our knowledge of the timeline here. we know the white house were at large knew about the whistleblower report before it was made. we didn't know when trump himself know and why and what explains sort of change in language. why did he adopt the sort of legalistic quid pro quo in that
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september call with gordon sondland. now we know. in late august, two lawyers t, e lawyers go to president trump and explain there is a whistleblower complaint. but, they put the president on notice that the complaints had been made about his ukraine policies. >> you also note that white house lawyers had briefed the president because they were figuring out if they legally had to give this complaint to congress, tell me a bit more about this. we know the department of justice didn't think it would rose to a level of urgent concern. >> this seems like it was years ago now. it was only a few months ago when this issue began with this
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huge fight between congress and the intelligent community. what was happening here is that the complaint went to the inspector general for the intelligence community and to the dni and the dni went to the white house and the white house consulted it with trump. these are the key points that we didn't have as fleshed out here. what we now know is that the white house were going to raise questions about privilege and talked to the justice department and what we know the justice department, their office of legal council learns about this on august 28th and september 33rd issues an opinion that says the dni should not deliver this whistleblower complaint to congress, that touches the crisis that we all saw played out in september. >> let's talk about in your opinion and i know that you are
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not in the business of giving opinions, in terms of learn it guy who has been reporting on these kinds of things. what impact does this new news have on the investigation going forward. would it materialize on this information before it was reported. >> the contact here is that the impeachment inquiry in the house representatives have struggled with this question as you sort of put in your opening of what did trump know and when did he know it. that classic watergate question. defenders of the president have said we don't know what trump was thinking c. we don't know what trump's intent was here. in any piece of evidence that shows his extent of knowledge and suggests how that influences his actions is important, includes future proceedings
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going on. this is what investigators have struggled with. the white house have blocked the witnesses who could really testify to this part of the timeline. >> so tonight when this is all digested with you and the media and somebody says julian what's the impact of this? why does it really matter that he would have known, what would you tell him? >> i would say look, we had some big questions about why the president changes behavior, why did he change tax from insisting that ukraine must investigate the bidens and must investigate 2016 and at that time denial a white house meeting and freeze the aid. we now know that he was put on notice that there were complaints, complaints that could go to congress and could become a scandal. that's why he changes his tone and tries to de-link the aid and
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request for investigations. >> it makes that discussion morrell va more relevant. when you tell somebody there is no quid pro quo, you know they're looking for it. julian, thank you for your reporting. we know even more crucial information about the timeline of the withheld ukraine aid thanks to the latest deposition that was released by the house. this was from mark sandy. he's an official office of budget management. mick mulvaney ahead of the office of management and budget, on july 25th, an important date that's the same day that president trump and ukraine's president discussed security assistance on that now infamous phone call. the omb finalized the withholding of aids to ukraine. the same day. the first letter withholding of
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funds was signed by mark sandy. by july 30th, five days later, sandy says his boss took over responsibilities for allocating that aid. duffy, his boss is not a career official like sandy. duffy is a political appointee. sandy testified all throughout the month s of july and august, why aid was being withheld. and it was not until the time the hold on aid was lifted in early september that mark sandy heard for the first time, the rational for the home that you are familiar with. the president was concerned about other countries not providing as much aid to ukraine as the u.s. does.
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finally, two budget staffers at the office of management and budget expressed frustration about the unexplainable on this ukrainian aid. one official told sandy there were legal agency at least in part because of their concerns over the whole. >> joining us now our leig leigh ann caldwell and jill wine-banks. welcome both of you. jill, i want to start with the newest information we have. the reporting that the president was being looked at and he knew what the whistleblower complaint was about, the allegation of quid pro quo and he gets on the phone with gordon sondland and he gets on the phone with sondland, no quid pro quo. tell me how it works in the u.s. law. >> this is amazing reporting and
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it is a well-written article. when you combine it with sandy's testimony, you have a very compelling narrative. a timeline that leads no question of what happened and puts in jeopardy of the lawyers who were involved in this. all the lawyers who decided they would not release this to congress which was legally required under the whistleblowerwhistleblower statue. i should have gone to congress. they go to the person about who the accusation is to get his opinion on whether it should go to congress. >> that's crazy. >> it is totally a lack in judgment and ethnics. i think we need to be looking at ethni
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ethics of these lawyers. you can't draw the timeline that says the president knew what he was doing, he must have had a lawyer that draft the quid pro quo. clearly you can barely pronounce it led alone did he understand what it was. he knew he was shaking down the ukrainian government and we knew because of the reporting of rudy giuliani and what he was doing in ukraine and trying to double deal and getting money from yain frfro from ukraine. it is really looking bad for everybody. >> leigh ann, each one of these, they're not really incremental. this is a significant deal. does this get a different response from republicans, have you heard a different response from republicans? is there anybody who's there to
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say this is getting weird r aer the day. >> republicans continue to say what new evidence, ali? representative mark meadows, one of the president's biggest supporter was on fox news saying exactly that that there was no new evidence and any new evidence he says shows the president made the right decision in withholding this aid to ukraine. and so, we can't move forward. we can expect republicans continue to defend this president strongly and also continues to make these process arguments talking about how this a is a sham impeachment process and democrats have nothing they want to impeach the president from day one. in reality on capitol hill among the house of representatives, politics is extremely triable. democrats are in their corner and republicans are in their
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corner going to continue to full throw and support this president. there are a couple that we were watching especially some of those republicans who are to retire. in 2020, we receive no movement. things are triable. things have always been triable in politics. somehow in 1973, they got a little less triable when evidence like this continue to come out and they made it impossible for republicans to stand at the side of president nixon. do you think this stuff makes a difference as people are dug in as they are? >> unfortunately, i would have to say no. it should make a difference. the facts are very clear. there is no doubt about what the facts show us. then you have lindsey graham saying i don't care, i am not paying attention to it, i we don't wad won't read the transcripts, i don't
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care. >> no republicans challenge the facts. they did not attempt to challenge what the witnesses were testifying to. we know exactly what happens and we know it is a violation of many laws. it is certainly an impeachable offense no matter how you define impeachme impeachment. when the house judiciary started the first thing it did, what is as high crime dismeaner that deserves impeachment. they worked on that. the three articles were obstruction, contentive of congress and abuse of power. all three of those can cover the president and all the things he's done in terms of obstructing not just mueller but
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the impeachment inquiry in terms of total contempt of the oversight, not just the criminal oversight but for example homeland security can't testify about immigration policies. that's eviscerating our three branches of government and checks and balances. that needs to be stopped. and it happens in plain sight of abusive of power by using the approved mumbai congress that was supposed to help ukraine to fight the russians and our enemies as well and saving us to fight them by letting ukraine to do it. he was held that money in order to get political value to himself. it was the same thing. this is withholding money in order to get value of the announcements of the investigation. he didn't care about the outcome, he just wanted to announce in order to tarnish his opponent. >> jill, thank you as always.
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leann caldwell and jill wine-banks. >> rudy giuliani privately pursued hundreds of thousands of dollars from ukrainian officials despite repeated claims that he had no business dealings with ukraine. rudy giuliani has been at the center of the house impeachment inquiry, waiting the campaign to uncover damaging information into ukraine. joining me is hans nichols. there should be a tv show hosted by rudy giuliani about side hustles. he played both sides against the middle on this one if this reporting is true. rudy giuliani is not speaking all of a sudden. let's take the two reports that are similar. both reviewed documents and shows that rudy giuliani was in
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some sort of negotiations and discussions for a contract with ukraine's prosecutor. "the washington post" puts this number, there are other attorneys involved as well. presumably about getting assets returned that prosecutor thought were unjustly taken away. now here is the part that does not quite make sense and unless we are dancing on the needle. rudy giuliani insisted that he never had any business dealings in ukraine. if you are in discussion of a contract but you never signed that contract, that could be where rudy is resting his case on. there is a little tidbit -- he seems to suggest that restlaudy
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doing other things and he had other clients other than me. that's president trump seemingly aware that rudy is not only working for donald trump. now where this gets interesting is when you look at the documents that's coming out the southern district asking for all these information as it relates to rudy and other businesses. nbc has to confirm this. as it is both the coast and the times seemed to have rudy fishing for it. >> rudy did not talk a whole lot. he did speak to ed rhenry over t fox the other day. he says we talked early and often. i have gotten insurance. he seemed to telegraph a message that i got dirt in some fashion preparing to insulate himself again. the president who sometimes when
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his aides get in trouble, he distance himself. >> on twitter rudy claims he was being sarcastic. i didn't detect the sarcasm tone. president trump talked about this on tuesday in the oval. he seems to suggest that rudy cleaned it up in the president's term. last night the president repeated what he says about rudy giuliani without answering directly on whether or not rudy is still his personal attorney. he says rudy is a great crime fighter and corruption fighter and that's the hallmark of rudy's career.
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when he was asked directly, did you send rudy to ukraine to orchestrate this deal insisting that the investigation happens, the president basically says i didn't. you have to ask rudy. there is the beginning of a line here that rudy was freelancing now. you and i love doing breaking news together. when two documents come out like this in "the washington post" and new york times, it suggested a coordinated strategy and those of us who don't have the reporting have to figure out where these documents come from. hopefully the next time i talk to you, i can get it to you. >> we ask jill wine-banks to stick around when we got this news. can you tell me what you make of this? >> the president's comment throwing rudy under the bus, i have to wear my bus pin another
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day. he's developing a defense which was rudy is on his own which was what nixon said about the burgla burglars, they were off on their own. so i don't think it is going to work and then it is going to be up to rudy. is he going to take the fall and hope that the president pardons him or is he going to tell the truth, i was acting on behalf of the president. it is hard for the president to make that argument since in the phone call with president zelensky, he says talk to rudy. rudy is handling this thing. how can he now say -- yes. >> go ahead, jill. >> i am sorry. >> that's okay. i just don't see how the president can get away with saying that rudy was not acting on his behalf in trying to develop dirt and it makes no sense to say his insurance is
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that he has developed dirt. if he did, i guarantee you it would have been released already. just like if there were any excalp excalpatory evidence out there. "the new york times" reporting really did a great job putting together the timeline and the facts. i think anyone who reads the original documents and listens to the witnesses can only conclude that the president has committed impeachable offenses. >> thank you for sticking around, jill, it is always important. hans, thank you for your reporting. >> president trump legal strategy keeps losing in the courts. he's winning in other ways. pete buttigieg facing backlashes of his own comment of minority
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children and an article that went viral calling him out. next, you are watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. are watchi& ruhle" live on msnbc of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa aetto yours a health and wellness with medicare advantage plans designed for the whole you body, mind and spirit. that means aetna is helping you get ready to be the best grandmother the world has ever known. with medicare advantage plans that come with monthly premiums starting at $0.
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welcome back to "velshi & ruhle," pete buttigieg is facing a major ongoing challenge, a lack of support from african-american voters. the indiana mayor is facing bin
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backlash during a mayor forum in 2011 which recently surfaced. >> there are a lot of kids, the lower income minority neighborhoods who literally just have not seen it worked. there is nobody they know literally. >> a writer for "the root" denounce yd the comment. and buttigieg then called harriet. >> what i said did not reflect the totality of my understanding of what students face today. i understand why he was upset and the perspective. i am conscious of the advantages and privileges that i have had, not through any great wealth but certainly through education and not advantages of minorities.
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>> according to a recent poll, prior to that resurfacing of that video pete buttigieg was ahead. polling with just 4% with black voters. eugene scott is joining me now. goo what's the fundamental understounder pe pending of the problem that pete buttigieg is having? months ago he was at 0% and now he's at a staggering 4%. what's the issue? pete buttigieg is still a largely new name despite how well he's doing in recent polls. he's a political office and a small town in indiana. a state and city that does not have a large black population. many black voters do not know about him. what they do know about him is something controversial. something he says about kids and
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education and their values. something he says about residents in the community and challenges with police. he's hitting situations repeatedly where he's not putting himself in a situation to gain support with black voters which is a demographic that he really needs if he wants to win the nomination. >> let's talk about a guy more who makes pete buttigieg got an easy time is mayor bloomberg. >> we saw the former mayor apologized for his support of stop and frisk of a policy that was viewed unconstitutional. the challenge for the mayor is he defended stop and frisk as recently as this year. he will have to put in place of some type of proposal showing that he wants to reverse the harm that was done by stop and
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frisk to make things right and better for latinos who were disproportionately discriminated against by officers in new york city. >> let's talk about joe biden. i want to pull that poll up one more time. we are getting a lot on that. joe biden at 43% among black voter voters. what's the simple explanation for that? >> i think it is a complicated explanation. the simple answer i will provide you quite frankly is a few things, he definitely has name recognition because of his association with barack obama. there are a large percentage of black voters that are pragmatic. they are thinking who they believe will best represent them. they'll also try to guess of the people who voted for trump being willing to vote for and replace trump. to them, it would seem like he would be a great middle ground for some more progressive
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americans and liberal black voters and some of the voters who were attracted to trump's more working class and everyon conservative messages. >> eugene, you give assessable answers, you do a great job of it. thank you, my friend. >> eugene scott. another blow at the border. first, trump keeps losing in court but his long gain could be a win, you are watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. you are & ruhle" live on msnbc wayfair's biggest black friday blowout ever
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welcome back, the impeachment inquiry has turned into a battle involving all three branches of the government. the trump administration keeps stone walling congress of testimonies and keeps on losing in court. former white house don mcgahn must testifies before congress in the impeachment inquiry. the same judge agrees to put a holding on that ruling. even with some court's losses in the big picture, president trump's legal strategy could be
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winning anyway. he's playing the long game like a football team up late in the game. mr. trump's legal team is looking to run out the clock putting for an aggressive legal theory often backed by scant president. joining us now, charlie savage, let's talk about this. president trump's strategy may be working for him now but as your book points out because you go back to a few presidency, there are long-term consequences for many republicans in power. >> president trump's legal team are tweeting aggressive theories of executive power that keeps you knock down by the courts or lower levels. they're running out their clock without having new information coming into light or threatening
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his reelection campaign. by pushing it all the way the way previous presidents have not. he's creating a long-term risk not for him necessarily but for the office of presidency. because sooner or later, later really the supreme court will get a chance to hear some of the theories if he keeps ongoing with them or everyon appeals co in d.c. they may rule against him. that seems to be the pattern when you have aggressive presidents. in the end, the court pushes back and takes them forever to get to that point so it has more consequences for the long-term than the immediate dispute. >> they can't just sort of announce and expand their power. they are pushing the envelope and in your book, you write about the fact that prior
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administrations did that delibera deliberately. they took on particular cases in order to have results of expa expanding. jack goldsmith who led the office of legal council in the bush administration, the danger of the institution of the presidency is that really aggressive assertion of executive power ends up creating bad executive power precedent. is there a danger? will that happen if somebody actually, some court finally rules some of the stuff he's trying to expand can happen? >> yeah, i think that's what i was trying to get out with my last remark. the other thing raised by your question there, the difference between president trump and previous presidents, even president that's aggressive on executive power like the bush and cheney. it was really as a matter of
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principle. you may not agree wit or may think they're crazy and had unrealistic interpretation but they really agreed it. that was overtly part of cheney's agenda. what's happening trump administration putting forward these theories, that's not where they are coming with this idea in mind of this long-term idea. the idea is they want to right now prevent information coming out and if there is long-term consequences creating risks for this institutions, they'll accept that. >> charlie, these are important things for you to consider. i appreciate you continue to write it, charlie savage with "the new york times." he's the author of "power wars," the relentless rise. it is an important read. several reports painting a
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picture of what happens if the world does not act fast. you are watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. lshi & ruhle" live on msnbc what's for dinner?
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also under scrutiny the president remains in mexico policy which sent thousands of migrants back to mexico to await their asylum claims. >> gabe gutierrez visited the border and some are calling it a growing humanitarian crisis. >> reporter: a tenacity in mexico. >> this is 100% a humanitarian crisis. >> reporter: more than 1200 migrants, carlos from honduras says he's been here for months with his two years old son struggling to find medical care? yes, he says. >> reporter: the u.s. started a new policy requires migrants to remain in mexico. the trump administration says the changes are working.
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that's a 68% drop. >> migrants can no longer expect to be allowed in the interior of the united states. for some, the result is a dangerous limbo. the mexican government set up shelters about a 30 minutes walk here. this man tells us his two young daughters were sexually assaulted by a man who believes was a cartel. >> reporter: for these migrants how much of a concern is it to be kidnap td by the cartped by ? >> absolutely. >> volunteers are taking action. this group is handing out food and supplies. sergio started coming here in the summer of 2018.
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>> reporter: why do you do this? >> because i crossed over one day and i saw it. >> how can you look away? do we do something? >> our gabe gutierrez joins me now. you have been covering this for some years. is there a fundamental change in the way that people who are coming to our southern border look at it? has the administration achieved that? >> yes, they have. the administration is having this dropping border apprehension is more than what we see year to year. >> at this point we see a continuous drop and that's huge. if you saw there, the administration says that remains in mexico policies. where these migrants have to wait on the other side of the
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border while their asylum claims play out. as you saw advocates there saying this apprehension numbers are down. now t now the president says the number of people coming across are down. >> president trump is saying this is working and acting as a deterrent and as he's planning to expanding this in mexico policies. as my colleague julia ainsley reports that trump administration is expanding into arizona. migrants will be brought to el paso, texas and sent to flores. and just in that intensity alone, some people say can be as many as 22,500.
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the the conditions there are squalling and drinking water is hard to come by. there are advocates there and volunteers that are coming across the country. they were taking meals over daily and one woman from new jersey -- humanitarian crisis is a security crisis. >> there is definitely some sense that this is going to get fit. >> at this point, no. >> there is no end inci site at this point. >> many of these folks going back to central america and it is not just central america but off of cubans there that's on the other side of the border. whether you support this or not,
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this is the real human impact of the policy change. >> thanks, good to see you here. gabe gutierrez. urgent new warning of climate change. what needs to happen now, you are watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. now, you are watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. i suffered with psoriasis for so long. i felt gross. people were afraid i was contagious. i was covered from head to toe. i was afraid to show my skin. it was kind of a shock after... i started cosentyx. i wasn't covered anymore. four years clear.
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multiple climate reports released this month are giving dire warnings about the future of our planet, in case you need convincing. the united nations said tuesday in its annual assessment, this is an important one, the summary findings are bleak, adding that greenhouse gas emissions are still rising dangerously. the united nations stressing the world's two biggest polluters are china and the united states. they have increased emission levels reaching record highs in 2018. important to remember, increasing. we're not going in the right direction at all. another report released monday by the world meteorological organization warns that carbon dioxide, methane and thigh trous ox side levels in earth's atmospheres reached new highs last year as well. the global average concentration of greenhouse gases reached 407.8 parts per million in 2018. for contrast, by the way, i know
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you don't have these numbers at your disposals in 2017405 points per million. a report the world will face untold suffering due to the climate crisis unless society makes major environmental adjustments. the report noting there are certain indicators that society must monitor in order to combat this crisis, like population growth, meat consumption, energy consumption, deforestation and burning fossil fuels. the two degree threshold was established in the paris climate agreement and refers to a two-degree celsius rise in global temperatures above preindustrial levels. but the trump administration, as you know, formally withdrew the united states from the pairs are climate agreement earlier this month, making the united states the only country in the world to not cooperate with that pact. joining me now is the former epa
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administrator gina mccarthy. gina, we had this conversation many times. i know you're probably tired of it, but we know this administration is not -- not only not doing enough doesn't really suggest it wants to do enough to fight this crisis. we know that we are accelerating our impact of fuels and co2. can there be a solution? and is there anybody, you know, on deck to be the president of the united states who can actually say, this is important. we've got to do this now? >> well, lar rk, ali, thanks fo the question. i want people to understand that this is dire news, but of course we can make progress. of course we can avoid some of the worst damages that we might anticipate if we did nothing. and in the united states, i want people to recognize that, yes, the president has abandoned his responsibility both internationally and domestically to protect us, our health and
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our kid's future, but that means what we see is we see governor's, cities stepping up, people are getting anxious. you see young people taking to the streets. you see parents getting worried about the future of their kids. and we see renewable energy taking off despite the actions of this president. so there are some signs in the u.s. that things are changing. we know things have to change. and we do have solutions today. >> uh-huh. >> that if we banded together and we embrace those would buy us time for the innovation that we need moving forward. >> i want to just point -- >> of course the united states is now seen as outside the loop internationally, and it's embarrassing to all of us, but it's not the end of the story. >> i want to show our viewers, images earth in 1912 compared to 2018. the reason this is relevant, these are temperatures, this shows a global warming of less than 1 degree celsius and look at different in the hot spots.
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so at this point, there was a report that came out that said global temperatures right now are on course for a 3 to 5 degree celsius rise in this century. gina, this is quite possibly the biggest thing we are all going to contend with. >> yeah. yeah. i actually think it is. it impacts everything. every facet of our life. and really it's not about the health of the planet and the pictures that you're showing. it's about our health today, which is already being impacted and our ability to deliver on our moral responsibility to hand our kids a healthy and more just and sustainable future. so, you're right. it is alarming. but we have to take that alarm and use it not to make us bury our heads in the sand but to make ourselves move forward. ali, this is thanksgiving. we have to be hopeful. we have to work together. i am seeing presidential candidates where each and every one of them has a climate plan.
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a few years ago, you would be anxious to see one question asked in a debate about climate. not just a climate debate, one of which you helped to moderate. >> yeah. >> these are changing times. we need to embrace the challenge. we need to move forward. we see the world gathering next week to firm up some of the more frameworks that we have to do to actually move forward on the paris agreement. so, if we can think tomorrow about talking to our kids about climate change, of recognizing and thanking them for pushing us, and give them a hug. tell them we're going to do everything we can to hand them a good future. >> all right. that is a valid point. let's give thanks to the young people who, like you and like a lot of other people, have made this a priority for all of us. gina, thank you for your help in covering this crisis. gina mccarthy, is a former epaed a min stray store. still ahead the rush for amazon's one-day delivery is putting workers in dangerous
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conditions. you're watching "velshi & ruhle" live on msnbc. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa
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thank you for watching "velshi & ruhle." katy tur picks up our coverage right now. i'm sorry for going over a little time. >> it's fine. i'm back at 5. you're back at 9. >> just us. >> just us all day long. we'll see. we might be back for other times. we don't know yet. ali velshi, thank you so much. it's 11:00 a.m. out west and


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