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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  November 27, 2019 3:00pm-4:01pm PST

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and namaste is when you do yoga? i got it. we wish you a very happy thanks governing. did you get nabaste? >> i'm familiar with the lexicon. >> ari, you might try it. i just feel like if you wentb there and you stretched out and maybe at the end of it you- -- and you could stlit and reflect on your life, i think it would bring you inner peace, ari. >> i thought they were more into downward dog than turkey? >> you never know. you can get a turkey to do downward next to you as you do downward dog. there are possibilities. >> there are. your hour is not the only one with special turkey programming. we have some turkey in our hours a well. >> and there's a turk itty roasting tonight, which is
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great. >> you said it and i agree. i wish you and your family a great thanksgiving. >> thanks and bye. and thank you for joining us on this thanksgiving eve. i can tell you there's lot going on. s new hints to donald trump's impeachment hearing. our special report later this hour on speaker pelosi's evolution on impeachment and new reports about rudy giuliani that may shed light on donald trump distancing himself from his lawyer and what has become his ukraine fixer. so all that and later, as i was telling katy we have something special planned on how to pursue a meaningful thanksgiving. something for everyone to think about on a night like tonight. but we begin with real news and raevlutions about president trump. that he knew about the then whistleblower complaintb when he made a change in his ukraine plot and are leased that country's military aid.
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it adds to the evidence that reason the white house backedau extorting ukraine was not some second thought or some attempt to avoid doing something wrong, but rather as so many have stated, they backed off because they got caught. they wanted a damage-control mode. the "new york times" reporting on the developmentings. it's part of a larger effort to avoid, according to reports, the trump aids wanting any part of the plot being exposed. an echo of what looks like an odd denial that he didn't want a quid pro quo. but that was when it was secret and no one was using the term, "pro quo, bribery, in the first place. and we'll head right to the first jaishiary committee on impeachment and they're going to
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focus on what exactly makes for an impeachable offense. nadler has invited donald trump and his attorneys to participate. they're say it may be a boycott and argue the whole process is simply unfair. the prospect of a president known for his communication style to say nothing of his ratings ubsuddenly sitting out the chance to confront the evidence and speak to the some 70 million people who have watched part of the hearings to date likely to tune back in as congress gets closer to impeaching donald trump. if his team doesn't show up, they won't be able to collect the evidence, which will be analyzed for impeachable offences by the judiciary committee. >> this president believes he is above the law, beyond accountability. and in my view there is nothing more dangerous than an unethical
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president who believes they are above the law. >> he richly deserves impeachment. he's violated the law six ways from sundays. but that's not the question. the question is can we develop enough evidence to put before the american people? >> i'm joined by "new york times" columnist and michael eric dyson, a professor of georgetown with a new book called "jay-z, made in america." what do you think bout these reports that feel familiar because people say, well, right. we didn't think he backed down. he was defending on the white house lawn. and yet for what congress is doing, this does seem like important evidence. >> there's already a mountain of circumstantial evidence that trump only released the aid because congress-begun its investigation because, as adam schiff has said multiple times, because he got caught.
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but because they have boycotted the intelligence committee hearings, there's still small details about how the plot went down. not the substance of the plot itself but some small details that have yet to be filled in. so this fills in one more of those details. that two of the republican defenses have been both what trump toads gordon sondland "no quid pro quo" and that aids was eventually released. so no harm, no foul and this was an ordinary process that happens all the time. and this reporting punctures both of those. if you've been accused of a quid pro quo, then-you defensively say no quid pro quo, it's not evidence of a clear conscience. >> right. and margaret, on this program last night we-a leading washington conservative defending the president saying well, they got the money anyway. it would seem the question is why did they get the money?
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it's not in his view to give up the goods. asthma shell says these little details are coming in to confirm what we already think we knew. and this impeachment is the opposite of watergate. it's as if nixon delivered the tapes before the supreme court hearing, which said he-to. trump admitted everything at the beginning by releasing the transcript. so we are just filling in the details.
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>> professor dyson, i dont know if you've ever-a student who said if they-more time they would have got their report in. and report still doesn't come in. donald trump today, we reported saying maybe they won't send the lawyers at all. this is one of his prime complaints up until they opened the door. take look.look. >> these crooked politicians, not giving us due process, not giving us lawyers. we which were allowed any rights. tampering is when a guy like shifty schiff doesn't give us lawyers. those guys are shifty schiff. don't forgive, you can't have
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due process, you can't have lawyers. >> yet you can have lawyers, professor? >> yeah, he's stuck in '80s hip-hop with the shifty schiff melee melanomaen clayture there. you know, my great friend johnnie cochran comes to mind. if you cannot extort, you must proceed to abort. this is what happened. you coup extract the concession from the president. successfully because it was not done secretively. as a result of that, the potential exposure forces his hand. jen then the generation of these excuses are par for the course. but it does show the level of mendac ify and complicity and we are told this is an orwellian loosen of the anchors of language. like stuff doesn't mean what it's supposed to mean. and the purpose of these political forces that are holding him to account that are in congress is to make sure is
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that words mean something, that the historic legacy of the constitution is held forth and people have common sense explanations for why this president has done the kinds of things that he's done. and i think once we, you know, really barrel down on this, and then get to the heart of the matter, to mix metaphors, the issue here is, are we capable of finally announcing through circumstantial everyday, through the asterisks that legal you know courts make when they say, look, it can't all be somebody saw it directly. but when you talk about the mountain of everyday as michelle goldberg did, it's pretty clear that what is happening here has happened and now we're getting the drip, drip, drip, of the final details that makes sure and make it plain that this is what occurred. >> and you could mix metaphors any time you want, professor. your mixed metaphors are welcome here. margaret, this also goes to a process that the house has been bearing down on quite seriously
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and the president is all over the place. and so, in the clinton example we've shown, you had the lawyers come in and it did add to the quantum of evidence for the public if you take this seriously. here's a democratic member of congress basically saying you can't take the boycott, because you never know what they will do until the day of. take a look. >> i never make the mistake of speaking for the president or his council and i think it's well established that it's unpredictable. they were initially sent out signals that they may not. i would encourage him to participate. let the american people see his side. let them ask questions. >> we are supposed to know by sunday evening is the dead 7/39. >> i don't believe in deadlines until we're actually sitting in that hearing. >> margaret. >> you know, ari, ari, in this case, he is, i agree we debbie, he is unpredictable. in this case, he may prefer that jim jordan be defending him and not have -- how far -- there's
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no lawyer i know other than rudy guiliani who's going to go as far as jim jordan will go if defending trump. so, a lawyer might hold trump's defense back. so, this may be one which he follows through. you know, he wants to mock the system. he doesn't want to dig fify it. and so in that regard, he might not send a lawyer. he wants to be at a rally leading a chant, that the children can't watch. and then i'm not going to quote, since it's thanksgiving. but you know, he has no respect for congress, a co-equal branch of government. he wants to show it every way he can. and you know his impulse control is so slight he may deprive himself of a lawyer in order to do that. >> hmm. michelle. >> well, i think i actually think that it's probably you know from his own narrow self interested point of view, which
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is trump can only kind of succeed to the extent that institutions that constain him from discredited. it probably makes sense for him to do exactly what margaret just said he's going to do. right? to let jim jordan be the slobering attack dog. kind of let jim jordan go all in on bad faith and misinformation and hold himself aloof because and pretend to the kind of people who go to his rallies or people that watch fox news that this is such an illegitimate process that he can't participate in it. ba us the only way that donald trump has been able to last as long as he has lasted is to sew doubt about owl of the institutions of american democracy and the rule of law. >> it's a great point when you lay it out like that it's where, yes, they backed off the money to try to not get caught in the short steterm. in the long term, it's the same macroanti-democratic strategy, it's using the foreign
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investigation to undercut the investigation. refusing to let the fbi have oversight, refusing the navy to cut their military judicial paroles sa processes. it's a py higher bar. he was in hot water this week and a congress that has rules that seen this before and provides a mechanism. i want to put up the numbers we have, because there are seens the public doesn't buy it. 50% of the american public now saying trump should be impeached and removed from omplts that's before you even get to looking at what the articles of impeachment out of the judiciary committee. with the 30 seconds i have left, professor. anything you want to st. about your brand if you book and why it's relevant today in this world we live in to viewers who might not be as hard core of a sean conner fan as you or i? >> well, jay-z said i would write it if you could get it but being intricate on the internet they're like you should spin it. i'm saying you should buy it. it's good business. it's good business for his
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lyrics. its good% for my books and good business for donald trump if he looks at that book to see when a hustler speaks his mind and amplifies the worst instinct of marine culture before getting redeemed. >> wow, he did fit it all n. consider the metaphors is mix and remixed. professor, margaret karlsson, michelle goldberg, happy thanksgiving to each of you. >> i yielded my time to jay-z. >> right. sometimes it's worth it. >> worth it. total ply. >> it's jay-z, made in america. coming up, explosive new reporting on guiliani's conflicts of interesting, trying to get paid by ukrainians, also an attempt to patch things up, after all that talk of insurance policies, we'll get into that later. we have a special tonight, something we have not done yet. digging into the archives of how speaker pelosi got to yes on impeachment, what it suggests how she will act next week at
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those key hearings. plus co-author tony schwoorts is here for a special segment. i'm here on "the beat." i'm ari melber. melber >> ♪ ♪ applebee's new sizzlin' entrées. now starting at $9.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪
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i'm announcing the house of representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. the president must be held accountable. no one is above the law. >> that was the moment when the most powerful democrat in
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washington flipped the switch on impeachment, sparking a process that led to two weeks of these often stunning hear hearings. more stunning than last. now next week a report from chairman schiff and then the judiciary committee begins its process which can lead to the actual articles of impeachment against trump. all reminder how powerful the speaker is. nancy pelosi can hold things back or let them loose. it was not out of character. remember when she made history in 2006. she was the first speaker in american history. she faced a very cover republican president under policy for the iraq war. also serious allegations of abuse of power like warrantless spine and torture. but she left no doubt she was not going to turn her speakership into an impeachment march against president bush. >> in some quarters, folks will think that you are a san francisco liberal who has
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nothing said on your mind unleashing your tenants and impeach the president. >> i have said and i say again that impeachment is off the table. >> off the table. pelosi laying down that marker explicitly because so mr. on the left were demanding it, reporters repeating those questions as you heard. 38 members of congress introduced a specific resolution pushing for an impeachment inquiry against bush and back in the day, steern stephen colbert laid out the reasons why he was urging the democrats his character opposed to impeach bush. >> i mean the republicans impeached bill clinton. i mean, don't you want to get back at them for that? i mean, wouldn't that feel good? after all, the president has been baiting you guys for six years, wmds, iraq, katrina. valerie blaplaim, signing statements, torture, wiretaps, secret prisons, u.s. attorneys.
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>> now, speaker pelosi was making what she thought was a bigger picture decision. to avoid impeachment and years later she actually laid out why. >> yes the argument against president bush was about a president and an administration that sent us into a war based on a false representation of the threat of weapons of mass destruction in iraq. i do think people could have made a case about president bush but i did not want to go down that path because of what it would mean for the american people. >> didn't want to go down that path. because of what it would mean. this is really interesting as everyone gets ready to try to understand what the house does next week. because it cuts against these depictions you've probably heard that pelosi is always occupying the far left or most aggressive wing of the party n. a trump presidency, pelosi and her point person in all this, adam schiff,
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were very cautious when the mueller report first dropped even though it had substantial evidence of obstruction in the report. >> if a majority of your caucus wants to go forward with a new impeachment inquiry, would you go for it? >> it's not even close in our caucus. >> eventually. >> why are we speculating on hypotheticals? >> has it brought you closer to an impeachment inquiry? >> i don't know. the constitution provides impeachment as a remedy. it doesn't compel congress to act and impeach whenever there are groups for impeachment. >> what we want to do is have a methodical approach, not any one issue is going to trigger oh, now, we'll go do this. >> pelosi and schi were holding back. judiciary committee nadler, though, was often seen as a law maker driving impeachment about obstruction. a washington post poll right after that report came out
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showed about 37% backed impeachment. after pelosi announced the probe in september, it's jumped 21 points to 58%. there are obviously two factors driving that. the facts of the particular ukraine scandal and then what happens when the democrats go fully on offense with pelosi behind them. in a cynical world that treats so many choices as a matter of optics, note that this shift involves a factual ill logical point. some democrats, including speaker pelosi, were arguing that you should skipiment people. and just stop donald trump in the next election. i bet you've heard people say that. right? but the ukraine scandal did something very different to speaker pelosi. it undercut that very logic with the everyday that trump is abusing power to cheat in the next election. corrupting that very check and balance and that is why so many top democrats said trump's actions basically left them no choice. >> we had no choice but to go forward. >> we're not fooling around
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here. >> we see the actions of this president being an assault on the constitution. >> where is speaker pelosi headed next? i am back with a very special guest when we're back if 30. k w guest when we're back if 30. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. at bayer, we're more than we help farmers like john. by developing digital tools, so he can use less water to grow crops. at bayer, this is why we science. >> we are back with mark thompson, you are your thoughts on the speaker's impeachment? thank you, ari. i think you put it well for the argument to have been to wait and let the election handle it,
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when, in fact, what he was doing was going to impact the election i think left no choice. i think she's been very methodical about it and that's how she operates. her daughter christine pelosi written a new book, the nancy pelosi weigh in, she describes her mother sitting at a loom, not whipping members of congress but weaving the tapestry within congress you all the diversity of the democratic caucus. they have the biggest tent after all and weaving all of those intricate threads together in a tapestry. that's what she did when she fund v found out about ukraine. she called trump and said, tell your people to obey the law. the other thing, too, that i think obviously changed her and may continue to change us all, maxine waters said it early on,
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nancy pelosi ultimately agreed, trump is self impeaching. so that while the mueller report was spun by barr in such a way it led the chief to go forward on that as an impeachment referral. what does he do the very next day? but call the ukraine, self impeaching. so, i mean, i think the real problem she has and the democrats have the what else is he going to do or what else has he done that we done eastern know about? it's almost like leaving a tab opened because he might do something else. if you move on this, then we might look up in january and february. heats done something else. so this is a problem where thing will persist. >> well, i'll tell you, you never leave a tab opened. you don't know what's going to be put on there. you talk about the big tent. you know who you sound like, mark? >> no, who? >> you sound like mark thompson. because we dug up where you been in looking at this, because i've
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had the benefit of your analysis over these many months. we point out to our viewers, you interview a lot of folks, including the speaker of the house. here's what you said in september. >> the speaker doing what she needs to do. frankly, the democrats did win the mid-terms on policy issues. the democratic party's tent and rooechd reach and arms are long enough and big enough that you can have members articulate impeachment while other members articulate policy issues. >> and so with the 30 second we have left, you look at that shift, you diagnose how is she going to run these hearings next week? >> i think we will hear from certain experts why impeachment is constitutional and legal. really take it one step at a time. as i said, he is self impeaching. he makes it impossible for her or the democrats to sit on their hands. so, i think donald trump will be impeached.
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>> yeah. well, look, mark, i appreciate your insights along the way. i hope if there is an open tab, i hope you have some good stuffing and turkey on that tab, sir. >> happy thanksgiving, thank you for having me. >> up ahead, we get into this guiliani conflict of interest blown opened. what he was trying to do is make money off the biden plot and calling trump to explain what that insurance talk is all about. "art of the deal" author tony schwartz will be here. that's up ahead. y schwartz will be here. that's up ahead. who doesn't love a deal?
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the legalese on guiliani is now scorching. trump's lawyer to be paid by top prosecutors as they work to go after the bidens. the washington post reporting guiliani earlier this year negotiating a $200,000 deem all this as trump distances himself on ukraine from guiliani denying he sent him over there. >> what was rudy guiliani doing in ukraine on your behalf?
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>> well, you have to ask that to rudy, but rudy, i don't -- i don't even know, i know he was going to go to ukraine, and i think he cancelled the trip. rudy has other clients than me. >> you didn't direct him to go there on your behalf? >> no, no, but you have to understand rudy is a great corruption fighter. he felt personally insulted by what happened during my campaign because there were a lot of bad things happening. >> guiliani is your personal lawyer. >> yeah. >> so you didn't direct him to go to ukraine or do anything? >> no, i didn't direct him. but she a warrior, rudy is a warrior. rudy went, he possibly saw -- i think he has done work in you kra infor years. >> so, you didn't direct him. right? but from trump's own conversation with the president, he brought up guiliani multiple times as everyone remembers directed guiliani to do the follow-up. gordon sondland also testified guiliani was who he worked with
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at the express direction of trump. trump is now saying, hey, it wasn't me, look at the other clients, when he already has the direct quote. think about how this all lines up, from asking guiliani to do this stuff to now well you have to ask rudy. sound familiar? >> if you knew about the $130,000 payment? >> no. >> then why did michael cohen -- [ inaudible ] ? >> michael cohen is my attorney. you will have to ask michael. s . you will have to ask michael . >> what was rudy guiliani doing in ukraine on your behalf? >> well, you have to ask that to rudy. but rudy, i don't even know -- i know he was going to go to ukraine. i think he cancelled the trip. but rudy has other clients other than me. i'm one. >> so you didn't -- >> let's get into it, former
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prosecutor seth waxman and bill crystal from defending democracy together. bill, do you see any parallels here? >> yeah, obviously. both for criminal conspiracies, trump is at the center of both of them. people were acting on his behalf to his knowledge and some degree at his direction. that's it. >> as this saying goes, seth, boo-yah, bill crystal, i didn't find two conspiracies with the president as the beneficiary of both of them. as a lawyer, walk us through that. the first one was charged in court. the second one is under investigation by the fdny office. >> this one his claim is just not credible. it's bordering on laughable. when i was a federal prosecutor, i investigate all kind of conspiracies, the king pin said my consiglieres, my confidants, they're out there doing things, i didn't have a transcript on the day those crimes were
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committed where just eight hours later the crime was committed or talked about by the lead co-conspirator, here we have trump on tape on transcript saying i need that favor, then he says on that very transcript, directing rudy. he tells the president of ukraine. he says, rudy very much knows what's happening. he's a capable guy. if you could speak to him, that would be great. those were the president's own words, the idea that he didn't direct guiliani, that doesn't carry any watt. >> bill, what do you see as significant in the fact that the white house is moving away from perfect call and into more blamely lying and trying to say we didn't ask rudy to do this. we weren't involved, well, the money wasn't held up, anyway. there seems to be some awareness even at the trump presidential level that the old defense were very weak. >> i think so. i think they're counting on republicans at the end of the day saying, well, he did a lot of things he shouldn't have done, rudy is kind of a half of
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a loose cannon, at the end of the day, they got the aid, no harm, no foul, kind of thing. i don't think there was harm. i think that's what they're counting on. they've gone away from defending the substance of either the actual conspiracy, the constorgs conspiracy or the coverup. by i think is a little under reported. we wouldn't know anything e any of this if it weren't for the whistleblower. we came knowing, why? because it wasn't transmitted to the hill the way it was supposed to have been. it seems, it's cheer that trump was told about the whistleblower report. he may well have urged it not go forward. when it finally went forward, we know, it was already clear, he let the aid go and had this phony conversation with sondland where he pretends no quid pro quo, right? so the whole thing is a conspiracy and a coverup. i think it's clear it's both. the case has been developed. i got to say, the democrats thanks, above all to the whistle blower and the testimony of a lot of people. we know quite a lot about what's happening. one final point, who haven't we
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heard from? we haven't heard from mulvane, from the lawyers in the white house. we haven't heard from guiliani. trump says facts are on my side. he won't allow any of the people who are on his side so to speak to testify. all the civil servants, the military officer, they've all testified under oath. where is mulvane, where is jle? where is perfopompeo -- where i all the witnesses would be damming in a trial if they're not showing up. >> it's damming to bill's point, seth, when part of what you want to say is not simply, oh, what did the president do? does he have to defend himself? but just laying out basic facts, like why was the money frozen? and if it wasn't for what donald trump said on the white house lawn, which is he wanted an unconstitutional targeting of his rival potentially in the next election, if it weren't for that reason, what was the better real reason? >> yeah, we have an absence of
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that, just to bill's point, in the courtroom, you could have something called a missing witness instruction. so the law sometimes allows for a -- the government, for example, to say, well, you have a witness in your particular control. in this case, trump with secretary pompeo and the others and if the defense doesn't produce that person, there can be a missing witness instruction where the jury is told you can infer the negative from their absence. this is different. it's impeachment. but the law is aware of this kind of tactic and prosecutors can go after it and their absence is a glaring hole in trump's common carry. >> bill, i want to also flag this bizarre back and forth with the president and his lawyer about whether or not there is an insurance policy, whether they're probably black mailing each other or not. it's 2019. so i think i should get to that. in is reading from some of the reporting. his lawyer saying rudy guiliani's call to trump in a new call he emphasized he was not serious when the he publicly
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said he had an insurance policy if thrown under the bus by the president adding quote he shouldn't joerk he's not a funny guy, 10,000 comediennes are out of work and you make a joke, it doesn't work that way. bill, do you want to say anything about that? >> didn't rudy's lawyer say that rudy talked to the president was it today or yesterday? >> same call. >> the conspiracy is continuing. that's what's sort of amazing. it's all in public, theest e most conspiracies when they're discovered they go underground, or something. it's continuing, they, trump, mulvane, trump, they're all talking to each other. >> yeah, well, it's a lot, bill crystal, seth waxman, i wish you both a very happy thanksgiving and bill i hope your thanksgiving is full of the rule of law that i know you're so passion fat about. >> well, thank you. happy thanksgiving to you. >> happy thanksgiving. i want to share something else with viewers. it's pretty interesting. we have been talking about the impeachment investigation.
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consider, though,s a doesed. it's running with this probe by rudy guiliani, with the prosecution office he once ran, the southern district of new york, which had many figures from bharara to comey to mr. berman today. >> we are aggressive. we're appropriately aggressive. that's the history of the office and i think the public is metaphor. >> i found being a prosecutor harder than being a candidate because the judgment you have to make as a candidates are pretty clear. you go out and arc you the case and do the best you k. as a prosecutor, you really have people's leaves in your hands, you really want to try to be fair. >> today we announce extortion charges against michael avenatti. >> politics does not enter into our decision making on charging a case. we bring a case when the case is ready to be brought. >> i don't care who you are, globe is too big or too small to break the law. >> james comey, of course, went on from s dna to trump lawyer to
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now the subject of a probe. if you are in new york, i want to join us, go to msnbc.com sdny, i will be monitoring the discussion with six former u.s. attorneys of colombia law december 5th. right now go to msnbc.com/sdny. you can join me or get them for anyone in new york. we will be talking law, justice, wall street abuse, corruption, plenty of these topics, obviously, in the news as well, tickets at msnbc.com/sdny. go right now. they may sell out tonight. here's what our beat events look like. i want to thank everyone who sold out our impeachment debate at cooperman union. you can be a part of this one, too, on msnbc.com/sdny. i want you to know these are public events, you can listen to
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them on our beat podcast right along with us. you can download on wherever you get your podcast, like apple, plus extra videos on our social media page at the beat with harry and harry melber. you are invited to join us including at the event. we have a lot more in tonight's show, including something i told you we are excited about, author of the deal "tony schwartz" in the house. we are going up to the roof for a wider perspective. up to the a wider perspective. great riches will find you when liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar?
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sometimes here on "the bet" for these special chats we go up to the roof on 30 rock, we have been up there with forest whitaker and many more, tonight we caught up with our friend of "the beat" tony schwartz and went up to the roof. first time on the roof? >> loving it. grass at the 11th floor. pretty cool. >> pretty beautiful. reflecting on what we're thankful for in this time of year, and thinking about the conversations we have been having on everything from politics to the self to the spirit, what do you see as important to focus on to make for a meaningful thanksgiving? >> yeah, what i want to talk to you about today, which i'll start with instead of ending with, which is the notion that we are under such pressure as a country as the world at large
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that this instinct to be focused on your own well being and your own survival and your own self aggrandizement is so costly and you know i think back to when tom wolf wrote about the me decades in the '70s. we're in the many decade times a thousand right now. >> you know the shortest poem in the english language is by muhammad ali. >> i didn't know that. >> did you know that? >> no. >> me, we. which speaks of what you are talking about. do many people focus too much on measuring money and then feeling inadequate because of that? >> well, clearly and unequivocally and for centuries at this point we confuse external value, money, but fought just money, fame, power, influence, celebrity, with
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internal value and when your internal value feels threatened. you are more inclined to look for external ways to fill that inner feeling of emptiness. >> tony, if you were in fashion terms one of the presidential candidates, i think you would be biden, because of the way the suits are. but in spishttual term spiritua you would be marianne because of the way you are focused on energy. >> i'm not sure i'm cool with either of those particular extremes in this particular race. >> well, those are your only two choices. >> i see that, i will say this i'm never going to dress the same again. >> a lot of people say, okay, don't glorify money. if i had a lot more money, everything would be better. and the poorer you are the more true that's going to be, because you will get above subsistence. but past the line, the data tells us it's lower than many
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people think. it doesn't statistically make people happier. >> there is a woman the daughter famously of erick erickson, the famous psychologist. and she has written about the notion that -- and this is a kind of radical notion, but it feels true to me, that any person who is seeking an outside amount of fame or power or attention, is filling some level of inner deficit. now, listen, i have spent a lot of years of my life seeking one or another of those and i know that that feeling is true. >> yeah, if you need to be on tv every night, like with your own show, it's some kind of spiritual black hole. >> well, it's, we're complex beings. no, i feel that, you know, we are in a spiritual crisis. so if you crisis, so if you want to throw me into -- >> well, as mr. t. would say, you did that to yourself.
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you talk about as energy as much as her. >> i do. i talk about energy in very concrete terms, though. really the whole idea, the whole challenge of a human being around how effective and satisfied they can be in the world is function of how they feel. >> you're suggesting in peoples health, mental and emotional energy, they're walking around broken? >> absolutely. it's a very good description of it you just gave. the idea is there's four kinds of energy. there's physical energy and you get that from sleep, resting and eating the right foods. there's emotional energy with how you feel. it's the way you feel at your best, meaning the things that come to your mind, excited, engaged, energized, positive. and mental energy is just the ability to hold your attention in one place, to control your attention because that's under such siege. and when you can focus in an absorbed way, you're immensely
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more productive. and then finally spiritual, which is the energy you derive from the sense what you really do matters. to go back to where we started, larger than yourself. >> the last question is about how we measure. it famous management theory as peter drucker said is what's measured, improves. >> ever since the enlightenment we have overvalued science at the expense of humanity. if you can see it, if you can measure it, then it's real. if you can't measure it in this quantitative terms, let's not pay attention to it. but all the stuff that important is the immeasurable stuff quantitatively. >> thank you for doing this. >> thank you for having this. >> happy to do it. when we come back we'll tell you exactly what to expect from the impeachment probe next week. o e impeachment probe next week.
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get your holiday rest because if you're into the news next week is shaping up to be hi historic. as early as monday we could see a public written report from chairman adam schiff from the evidence gathered from the investigation in public hearings. >> there's more work to be done, but at the same time we've already accumulated quite overwhelming evidence. there was no plausible
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explanation but one, and that was the president wanted this leverage to get ukraine to do his political dirty work. >> now that report will then be handed formally over to jerry nadler's judiciary committee. and if there is an impeachment, they actually write the article or articles of impeachment, and they're getting right to it with a hearing on wednesday as we mentioned which will focus on the legal and historic precedence. but i want to turn to one more thing before we go, we like to look at as many stories as possible, and here's an important one fueled by climate change. did you know about a quarter of the world's population now lives in places literally running out of water? a problem with extreme water stress that is getting more acute which is something olympic medalist and swimmer michael phelps is actually working onto get people to conservative water daily. it's the kind of activism phelps says anyone can get in on in
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addition to any political broader or global reforms. >> think about how much we need water, we use water. brushing your teeth, taking a shower, washing your clothes, washing dishes. all of these things, if we continue to waste all of this water, we're not going to have any of it. so i think the biggest thing for plea is continuing to tell people we can make a big difference but we have to do it together. >> you know we try to put aside time for some of these conversations but also provide the rest of because we got into a lot of other topics, important stuff. his life after swimming, while he's shining a light on mental health issues, becoming the famous kind of leader that he is to so many people. so that inview is now up on msnbc.com/phelps. and i hope you'll check it out because i do think we got into a lot of different issues. and one thing he said people up
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and say you've achieved so much, how can you be depressed and have down mental health days? so something a little bit out of the realm of politics but we think very worth while. also to you and yours and all the families out there i hope you have a wonderful thanksgiving tomorrow, thanks for watching "the beat." "hardball" starts now. the rudy connection. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. with the house drive towards impeachment kicking into high gear and hearings in the judiciary committee set to begin next week, new information is emerging about president trump's personal attorney, rudy giuliani. even as the president himself is trying to distance himself from the man who he is increasingly
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