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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  November 29, 2019 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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click, call or visit a store today. good afternoon. we start this hour with breaking news out of the netherlands. according to the associated press and reuters, dutch police say multiple people have been injured in a stabbing incident in the hag's main shopping area. we are monitoring and will bring you any news as soon as we get
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it. this also comes as we are following breaking news out of london. right now, investigators are still on the scene after a suspect stabbed several people in what the metropolitan police have declared a quote, terrorist incident, on london bridge earlier today. london mayor says some of the injured are in serious condition and according to the metropolitan counterterrorism chief, the suspect was wearing a hoax explosive device when the stabbing occurred. he was shot and killed on the scene. joining me now from london, nbc news foreign correspondent erin mcloughlin. bill kneely joins us, as well. bill, again, conflicting reports about the death toll here. what exactly are police doing? >> yeah. good afternoon, katy. as far as the police are concerned, the incident here is over. but as you can see, the cordon remains because this is a crime scene. and the police in particular are investigating who this man was.
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did anybody know that he was about to launch this attack? who were his friends? who are his associates? did he leave behind any note? any video? we are still at nbc news checking reports in british media, which we can confirm that two people may have died as a result of this attack. and the suspect himself was shot dead. it's about six hours now since the attack. police initially called to a building after reports of a stabbing. and then very dramatic video that we've seen on social media of a crowd of men around this man on london bridge holding him down. one of the passersby walks away with a knife that was apparently used in the attack. and then we see in from the right of the screen on some of those videos, three police officers arriving. telling people, get away. get away. and actually, dragging one member of the public off the
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man. he was pinning him down on the ground. and then one of those police officers opens fire and hits the man twice. the man died at the scene. the police say they do not know what the motive for the attack was. but it is being treated as a terrorist incident. you can hear in the background there the shouting of the police as they tried to get those members of the public away. and both the prime minister boris johnson and the mayor of london have paid tribute to those people who tackled that man with a large knife. he had just stabbed, we think, at least five people. although, the circumstances of that stabbing, those stabbings, are not absolutely clear. but both the prime minister and the mayor praising their bravery. and boris johnson, the prime minister, cut short his campaigning for the national election here in britain. and said we will never be cowered or divided or
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intimidated. and anybody involved in this crime and these attacks will be hunted down and brought to justice. so, katy, of course the investigation here is ongoing. and we're still trying to get confirmation of what might be that very tragic news that two people have died. >> erin, the london bridge is not -- a lot of americans confuse is for tower bridge because tower bridge looks much fancier and looks like it might be called london bridge. it's not. but it does lead to one of the most popular tourist destinations in london. that's borough hall. a very large market underneath a train trellis. talk to me about how busy it was during this time of day. i know it's a holiday here in america. but there are black friday events in london, as well. how busy was it during this attack? >> well, i can tell you, katy. it was extremely busy. i was here shortly after the first reports of the attack were
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clear. and the scene was extremely chaotic. i -- i watched as police set up a wide perimeter. pushing crowds of people away from the bridge. currently, about a third of a mile away from the bridge itself. they were pushing people down this street. deploying bomb sniffer dogs, sweeping the area. helicopters overhead. it was very clear at that point that they were taking no chances. that they were suspecting that this was, in fact, a terror attack. now, formally classifying it as a terror incident. but i think the big question out of all of this is why? why do they feel that this was the result of a terror attack? that this was a terror motivation. to reach that threshold, by definition, a terror attack is politically motivated. why did they think this man, when he went on that bridge on the stabbing rampage, was motivated by politics? that is unclear.
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that's the outstanding question. we're also wondering if they've identified this attacker in any way. authorities making -- being very tight-lipped about that. we don't know his name. we don't know where he's from. we don't know his affiliations. all of those things outstanding tonight, katy. >> erin, thank you. let's bring in msnbc terrorism analyst, founder and executive director of the terror asymmetrics project. malcolm, how are -- let me start again. how is law enforcement looking at this attack? and what are they taking from it? >> well, the first thing they're going to look at this attack is find out the parameters and characteristics of it. now, we see this attack is very similar to other, what we call, individual-weapons attacks using a bladed weapon. in 2017, there was an attack in that exact same area of london. where multiple assailants using knives, after using a vehicle and hitting people, went around, you know, the borough market
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area and stabbed people to death. six people died in that attack. and then they were gunned down by law enforcement officers. this one has very similar parameters. it is an individual this time. using a knife. using it to -- to attempt to murder people. and then gets confronted by armed police and -- and are shot down again. what's very interesting about this is right there on london bridge, you can see at the end if you watch the video. there are three black objects in the sidewalk. those are the anti-vehicle barriers that were established all around london after the borough market in the westminster bridge attack. in fact, there was another attack where a policeman was stabbed to death after a vehicle had run into pedestrians right there at the house of parliament. so the british are very attune to these types of attacks. but what's good about this, and horrible to even use that phrase, is that isis and their
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ideological followers have been pushed down from bombs to guns down to vehicles. now, just down to people who are pedestrian terrorists on foot if this is a terrorist attack. it looks like it is. >> erin, how's the government responding? >> the government responds very quickly in london. i've been around london and seen their counterterrorism forces. that city actually has armed officers. armed response officers all over in unmarked cars moving throughout sectors of the city. and we found out today that this actually, the police that carried out this -- this operation were actually the city of london. which is a small borough within the greater london metropolitan area according to, you know, one of our experts who are on earlier today. and that borough has its own specialty police who watch for large places and gatherings of -- of noteworthy places.
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and they were on the scene within moments of the initial report. and -- and ended the attack. >> certainly, very quick because as you saw, police with long guns were able to respond very quickly to the man with the knife. and as bill neely said a little bit earlier last hour, most officers in -- in the uk are not armed. erin, how about leadership in -- in london? how's the mayor responding? >> well, we heard from the london mayor earlier today commending members of the public. keep in mind social media really telling this story. really harrowing video captured by passengers onboard a london bus driving through the bridge. to their horror, seeing this attack unfold outside. they captured video of the assailant pinned to the ground. members of the public. one man walking away, it appeared, with the assailant's
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knife. as police screamed for everyone to clear the way. and the suspect later shot and killed. well, sadik kon commending the members of the public earlier today in his statement here in london. take a listen to what he had to say. >> what was amazing about today is we saw the one individual, the suspect, the worst of humanity. but we also saw in the response from members of the public but also services the very best of humanity. we are resolute. we stand united in the face of terrorism and we will not allow anybody to divide us. >> and it's a sentiment echoed by british prime minister boris johnson. remember, we are expecting here in the coming weeks a uk election campaign here at london. >> and, bill, there's a press conference about to happen where you are? >> yeah, that's right. we are waiting for the
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metropolitan police, once again, to update us. probably on the casualties. as i said earlier, there are multiple reports in british media that two of the people that the suspect, this man, stabbed have, in fact, died. we're waiting for confirmation of that. just one other thing that may be of note. it's ironic that at the beginning of this month, the terror threat level in the uk was reduced from severe to substantial. which means not that a terror attack was very likely. but that it was likely. so in a sense, police had lowered their guard. though, what we understand from intelligence sources is that the police response here was reactive. in other words, they had no -- there was no chatter on the -- the -- the various places that the police monitor all the time. there was no prior warning, if you like, that this kind of attack was about to take place.
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so the -- the -- the -- the response was reactive, not intelligence led. of course, what the police are doing now, as i said earlier, is they are trying to dig into who this guy was. was it really a lone wolf attack as it appears? how did it happen? what inspired him? what was the motive? you know, of course, after the killing of al-baghdadi, i think european police forces right across the continent were on alert because everyone expects after something like that, after the killing of baghdadi, that isis members, isis supporters are likely to want to respond to show that isis is not dead. to show that they are not finished. so police will be digging into that kind of background to work out who this guy was. >> just very quickly, can you just explain the people that are behind you with the signs. turn to love. i googled that hashtag after i was -- after you were on last
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hour. and this started popping up. in 2017, after the other attack on london bridge. >> that's right. so, you know, there have been half a dozen terror attacks in london over the past few years. these people are members of muslim groups who are here to try to show that they -- they oppose incidents like this. not in our name, was on, you know, one of these signs. so they are, you know, desperate to show their opposition. desperate also to show their -- their fellow british people what they feel about this because there is always the danger of -- of a backlash against muslims. now, we don't know what this man was. his ethnicity. we don't know was he british? we don't know his religion. we don't know anything about him. but these people have come out just to show that they are opposed to events like this. many of which have taken place,
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katy, as you well know just within a few hundred yards. i mean, two years ago, just a few hundred yards from here was the borough market attack in which a man went on -- people went on a frenzied knife attack and killed six people just a few streets away from here. you know, so people -- people are very, very familiar. with these kinds of attacks in this city. >> bill neely, thank you very much. erin, thank you very much as well and malcolm. ahead, i'll speak to cory booker. he'll be here in studio to talk about the direction of his campaign. and also, whether or not he's going to qualify for next month's democratic debate. two months left until the iowa caucus. how is he going to lift himself up? but right after this break, the president has decided to restart talks with the taliban. what changed his mind? and are we closer to ending america's longest war? answers next. earn about their medicare options... before they're on medicare. come on in. you're turning 65 soon? yep.
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ago, metropolitan police gave an update on the attack in london. let's listen. >> i am deeply saddened and angered that our city of london has, again, been targeted by terrorism. it is with the heaviest of hearts that i have to inform you that, as well as the suspect who was shot dead by police, two of those injured in this attack in the london bridge area have
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tragically lost their lives. my heart goes out to their loved ones. and to the three further injured victims, who i understand are being treated in hospital. and, of course, to everybody who has been affected by today's terrible and mindless events. the attack started at fish monger's hall in the city of london. my understanding is that police were called at 13:58, two minutes to 2:00, and city of london police officers had bravely and professionally confronted the suspect. by 14:03, just five minutes later. if you are concerned about anyone who was there today, please, try to contact them.
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and if you cannot, then get in touch with us. i want to thank all the emergency service personnel who are currently working tirelessly to deal with this incident. particularly, the police officers from the met and the city who have worked so closely together to protect the public. i also want to thank the members of the public who have helped. either by showing extraordinary courage and stepping in to tackle this attacker. or, indeed, by following the instructions they've subsequently been given by officers at the scene and in the area. this support from our public assists us much more than you could know.
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in the coming days, you will see more police, both armed and unarmed, patrolling our streets to help reassure those who are understandably concerned. similarly, our counterterrorism detectives will be working around the clock to identify those who have lost their lives. to support all the victims and their families. we are also working at full tilt to understand exactly what has happened. and whether anyone else was involved. for this reason, we expect cordons to remain in place around the london bridge area for some time. this afternoon, i met with the prime minister and the home secretary and also had a meeting with the mayor. i'm very grateful for all their support.
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indeed, we have been working closely with the government at every level. and just -- just as closely with our partners across london. this will obviously continue in the coming days. this giant effort mustn't stop with the authorities. as you know, we are treating this as a terrorist incident. fighting terrorism takes effort and determination from all of us. if you have any information or, indeed, any concerns, please do contact us. the empty ideology of terror offers nothing but hatred. and today, i urge everyone to reject that. ours is a great city because we embrace each other's differences.
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we must emerge stronger still from this tragedy. in doing that, we will ensure that the very few who seek to divide us will never, ever succeed. thank you very much. i'm happy to take a couple of questions. >> do you think of -- the say a assailant was any way known to the police? >> this is a very fast-moving, dynamic investigation. we will keep you updated as we learn things. i can't comment on that at the moment. >> whether to say the individual was working alone as a lone wolf or whether he was part of a wider network? >> again, a very fast-moving inquiry. that's obviously a very important line of investigation for us. was this person involved with anybody else? if so, who? and, of course, we will be working to minimize any threat there may be out there.
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>> that is commissioner of the metropolitan police. she says that the event in london happened at 1:58 london time this afternoon at fish monger's hall. she says city of london police officers were able to respond and get to that scene at 2:03. just five minutes after it began. she did confirm what british police had been reporting. that two people have died. three others are injured. and the suspect is dead, as well. she said that fighting terrorism takes effort and determination from all of us. we're going to keep on this story as the day progresses. it is less than three months now after the president called off talks with the taliban. but now, donald trump says negotiations are open once again. >> the taliban wants to make a deal, we'll see if they make a deal. if they do, they do. and if they don't, they don't. that's fine.
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>> the president was short on details so it's not clear what exactly those negotiations might look like. but you will recall it was back in september when a previous attempt at an accord went sour. the president had floated a possible camp david meeting to broker a deal with the taliban. and then angrily called it off on twitter. a reminder we are less than a year out from the 2020 election. and the president could be looking for a foreign policy win that he can campaign on. joining me now from west palm beach, florida, where the president is spending the remainder of the thanksgiving holiday at his mar-a-lago resort. nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell. also with me national security reporter for the daily beast, aaron. and senior reporter for "the huffington post" zack carter. kelly, the president back at mar-a-lago. what else can you tell us? >> well, he's enjoying some time at one of his golf clubs in the area today. and he is back with family. and we presume that it'll be a typical holiday weekend from here on out.
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after the double surprise of his trip to afghanistan. one, surprising the members of the military to join them for a holiday feast and to serve u.s. service members with the turkey and trimmings. and to give a speech in a hangar and all that kind of tradition of commander-in-chief being in a hostile zone. the other surprise is what you've been talking about. -let preside the president's new comments on u.s. negotiations with the taliban. and one of the things that he added to that is that he says it has to be a ceasefire, which is different from the kinds of negotiations that had been going on. which were really focused on trying to draw down the u.s. presence in afghanistan in order to get things calm. of course, the taliban would be a political solution and the taliban of course had protected al qaeda in the time around the 9/11 attacks and for many years after. which is why the u.s. was drawn into the war in afghanistan in the first place. the president has long wanted to have the u.s. out of afghanistan.
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and has, up until this point, been listening to the pentagon and some of his allies in congress. to try to keep a presence there to prevent a reconstitution of a real threat to the u.s. but it remains a dangerous place for american service members. but what we don't know is the who, what, why, and how of how negotiations have begun again. the president sort of taking a question on that when he was sitting next to afghan president in their brief meeting while he was on the ground for about 36 hours. i'm sorry, about three hours in a 36-hour trip to afghanistan. so big questions remain. what would it look like? what structure, if any, has been put around this resumption of talks with the taliban? but it would sort of line up with his long-term goals, as you mentioned of trying to reduce the u.s. presence in afghanistan. katy. >> there are a lot of questions about why now? erin erin, the president was going to open an accord with the taliban a few months ago. they were invited to camp david.
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then that was, i guess, leaked or announced. it got a ton of backlash. it did not happen. where would things stand today if negotiations are actually reopened? >> that's right, katy. what i can tell you is that some of our state department sources on the ground in kabul said and told us as early as this morning that they were not anticipating this visit from president trump. and did not hear about it until very recently. it was sort of secretly held. no one was really briefed on it. but what i can tell you as of three months ago when those talks originally fell through, sources on the ground in kabul told us, you know, this is basically a washington game at this point. we're still in the field. we're still trying to figure out how to move forward with the conversations that were already ongoing for -- for years. right? and then about a month ago, in october, we were told that the special representative for negotiations in afghanistan was
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quote/unquote on the move again. so these conversations, after the original fallout, you know, kick started yet again in october perhaps in anticipation of a final decision from washington about what is to be done about the future agreement that might go into place here. >> politically speaking, what would this do for the president? >> it's really hard to say. i mean, this is a president who campaigned for much of the 2016 election against the legacy of president george w. bush. against the idea of having a lot of american troops abroad. for politically unclear reasons. it's not really obvious to most americans i think what the united states is trying to get out of afghanistan right now. i think part of the confusion surrounding the talks is what president donald trump wants to get out of them. we've been here for -- he's been the president for three years now. and i feel like there's still 18,000 u.s. troops in afghanistan. what -- what does the president actually want? what does a deal look like? it's really hard to say. for his supporters, you know, a lot of people in the republican party do want to see a change of
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direction on foreign policy. a lot of people in the republican party are very comfortable with the legacy of george w. bush and the democratic party, foreign policy's been almost entirely absent from the 2020 primary debate. so i think it's really frankly unclear how this plays. i do think the president wants to get some sort of win from his supporters for the 2016 primary though. >> well, i guess could he be looking here because he has not had successful talks with kim jong-un of north korea? they launched another something over the weekend. and the pressure campaign on iran doesn't seem to be bearing any fruit either. >> well, and the president did move some -- withdrawal some of the u.s. presence in -- in syria, turkey, the kurdish area. >> a ton of backlash. >> didn't go over well and i don't think it went over super well with a lot of his supporters. so he does want to be able to spin something as a win. but how do you spin something as a win when three years into your
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presidency, you're promising to get the united states out of these wars. united states is still there. >> erin, how many troops do we have left in afghanistan? and what would a draw down look like? >> so it's -- it's unclear exactly what that drawdown would look like. we do know that some troops have already begun to leave afghanistan. and so what we have right now on the ground is a bit of a state of confusion. a, about the timeline for withdrawal. and b, about what this new agreement would look like and how that would affect the withdrawal, right? so what we have is people on the ground that have been involved in these negotiations and talks for -- for more than a year that are sort of at a loss. and now, we have this new sort of point that president trump has brought up about a potential ceasefire agreement, which is completely different than anything that's ever been discussed in the most recent talks. and would require, i assume, a lot of discussion about what that kind of ceasefire agreement would look like.
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and then that -- how that agreement plays into the larger conversation about the withdrawal. so i think that there's still many, many steps to go through here before we see any real impact on the ground. >> erin bronco, zach carter, kelly o'donnell. everybody, thank you very much. and next week, house judiciary picks up the impeachment ball. but how are they going to run with it? that's ahead. right after this, though, we have senator cory booker here with us. in 2012, he criticized president obama for attacking private equity. where does he stand now? and i'll tell you some important things to know about medicare. first, it doesn't pay for everything. say this pizza... [mmm pizza...] is your part b medical expenses. this much - about 80 percent... medicare will pay for. what's left... this slice here... well... that's on you. and that's where an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company comes in.
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from the december 19th democratic primary debate. and a number of candidates have not yet qualified. so what are the next steps for candidate who no longer makes the cut? joining me now, new jersey democratic senator and 2020 presidential candidate cory booker. cory -- senator, i should say. i don't want to get too much into the horse race because i don't think it's what people are interested in. but i do want to know do you think you need to be on the debate stage in order to get your message out? to get voters interested in you. >> you know, it's where you get 5-10 million americans paying attention. it's -- it's really important. we've had these huge fundraising booms after them. so we have about two weeks to get on that debate stage. if people want me on the stage, the way to do it is go to cory and contribute. but we are leading in iowa and new hampshire all candidates in the endorsements of local leaders, mayors, and state
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senators. we are rising in popularity. now, number three in iowa in net favorability in a state where most people haven't made up their mind yet. according to "the morning register," one of the best organizations on the ground organizing. so there is all these things to show we are going to do what other campaigns did from kerry to obama who were polling way behind who went on to win. in fact, in my lifetime, there's never been somebody in the democratic party who was polling ahead at this point that ever went to the white house. >> i've asked voters about you recently to get a sense of where they stand on you and it seems a lot of them are confused about whether you're a progressive or a moderate. where exactly you fit into the debate stage. there's pete buttigieg, who is running as a moderate. and then there's the sanders and the warrens. they are a bit confused about where you stand. so clarify it. >> you never want to confuse a voter but we're putting it simple. we're the best person on that stage to unify the whole democratic party. look, the only person in the senate, only person running for this race that lives in an
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incredible community but we're below the poverty line. when i'm sitting in church or the barber shop, people do not even think of themselves as right or left. >> what policies address closing that gap? >> that's what i'm saying. i more want people to understand that i'm a guy from my earliest days coming out of law school. went to the toughest communities in our country and fought to make real change for real people. somebody that's moved the bar in creating tens of thousands of jobs in new jersey's largest city. that went to the senate. brought people together to do big change on the criminal justice reform bill. that is the only bipartisan bill to pass under this senate. my whole career has been showing that i can create uncommon coalitions to produce uncommon results. >> do you believe there needs to be fundamental, systemic change in the way our government operates? >> oh, god. i mean, i don't think there's an american who wouldn't agree with me that we have a system that's been corrupted by money and politics. >> how do you fix that? >> you fix that, number one, first of all i think everybody running should be taking the
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citizens united pledge. yo i don't take federal lobbyist money. oil company executives. you can't govern campaign wrong and then right and then govern wrong or vice versa. so i think that we need to have publicly-financed elections. this is crazy that we live in an era where a billionaire can decide. >> how do you do that, though? because it would -- it would mean i guess unilaterally disarming. one person would have to say i'm going to go on a public finance route. how do you get everybody to agree? because i talk to a number of senators, republican and democrat, who decry citizens united. who say they believe it's hampering their ability to legislate, to govern. they don't want to be dialing for dollars for half the time that they're, you know, half their week in washington. how do you -- how do you fix it? >> well, i think if i'm the nominee, quite seriously, we'll have a wave election that we can pull out. we can win the senate seat in north carolina. in georgia. south carolina. i think if we get enough senators in there, that we can actually pass campaign finance laws. >> are you saying it has to be a
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democratic government from president, senate, down to the house? >> this -- this republican party in washington right now has shown no desire. this is not the mccain party of old. this new republican party is in league with look at their last tax return with the wealthiest of wealthy in our country. they like the system the way it is. and so what i say is democrats, who are running right up front and saying that if i'm president of the united states, we are going to pass meaningful campaign finance reform to stop the corruption of this system. >> what if you don't win back the senate? what if it's a democratic president and a democratic house and a republican senate? does nothing get done? >> i think we're in danger of doing that if we don't have -- remember, michigan. pennsylvania. wisconsin. we lost those three states by 70,000 votes. there was a massive -- of african-american turnout. in milwaukee alone, about 70,000 less blacks came out to vote. from suburban women to african-american core of our party, we're going to see us winning seats that people think we can't win like north
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carolina. we want to -- when obama ran. and we can pick up senate seats. so my goal is to win the senate back. >> i hear you. there are some voters out there who might hear that and say to themselves it might not be possible this cycle. and i want to -- i want to believe that somebody can -- can find a way to work with the other side so that everything is not so tribal. everything is not down a party line vote. is it possible? is it possible to bridge that gap between democrats and republicans right now? >> so, katy, you're talking to the guy that's done that. my whole career in washington. >> but you just said you have to have democrats top to bottom. >> but look, in the senate, i've passed bills with ted cruz. i've passed bills with tim scott. we've been able to get a lot done because i don't demonize someone just because they're voting a different party. i will say my stump in this presidential race that the goal of democratic party cannot be reduced to the short-term we're here to beat republicans. we're here to unite americans in a larger, common cause. that philosophy. sitting down, going to dinner
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with my republican colleagues that's enabled me to get a lot more done in washington as a freshman senator than people would expect. as president of the united states, my goal is to remind americans we do best when we put more indivisible in this one nation under god. >> i do want to get you to respond to it. in a segment i did, i was quoting a "new york times article" that came out a couple days ago talking about the black vote and who black voters are surrounding. either joe biden or bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. and this is how a couple people put it. one of them said you need to focus on things beyond relating to me. i want to talk about the stuff that affects me. what are you going to do for me? this is a 29-year-old. a 53-year-old atlanta barber said if i had kamala harris or a cory booker that sounded like bernie sanders, of course i would choose them because they're closer to my lived experience but the kamalas and the corys aren't discussing the issues he's discussing. respond to him. >> my response to him is get to know me and you will see that we are talking about radical change
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for communities around this country. especially, communities that are his barber shop. and the fact is that, look. bernie started with 100% name recognition. people knew who he was. in many ways, we started, which surprised me, with about 50% name recognition in the african-american community. but when people know that i've spent decades now working in an african-american community creating radical change for small entrepreneurs. we have businesses started in our city. we help them get access to capital-l capital. created tens of thousands of new jobs. because yeah. in my community, people don't just aspire to make a raised minimum wage. we want to see that happen. but people aspire to be small-business operators and innovators. and they want to create wide pathway for success. so i know that i've got the best message. in fact, we've seen it in the state of new jersey. when i'm on the ballot, african-american turnout goes way up because we know african-americans feel that connection to somebody. not just in cultural connection. but knowing somebody that's standing and fighting for big change in their community. >> if you don't make the next debate, will you still be hitting the pavement? >> i'm going to hit the pavement
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for as long as our campaign has what it has right now. but if you want me in this race, please go to if you want to hear my voice on that debate stage, please go to and help us out. >> senator thanks so much for coming in and joining me in person. >> yes. congratulations on your first thanksgiving with a young man who had -- did he -- you don't feed turkey? >> yeah, you can. he's 7 months old. he had turkey. he had mashed potatoes. he had some yams and then he passed out. after screaming. so it was just like the rest of the family. >> the first dose of tryptophan. >> screaming, eating, sleeping. >> that sounds like my thanksgiving experience. except we're all adults when we did it. >> some of us are as well. thank you so much for joining us. after a quick break, the next step in the impeachment inquiry. congresswoman robin kelly of the house oversight committee joins me next. and later, the struggle for american dairy farmers. what will it take to bring their business back? .
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to the next phase of the impeachment inquiry. in a letter just sent to him by house just dishdiciary committe chairman jerry nadler, he's been given to sunday to let them know if he will send one of his attorneys to the house judiciary hearings next wednesday. and he has until friday to let them know if he'd like to call any of his own witnesses. joining me now is democratic congresswoman from illinois. robin kelly. member of the house oversight committee. so would you like to see the president make his own defense on capitol hill next week? >> you know, it's really totally up to him. i don't have a feeling about it one way or another. i'm sure he'll be entertaining if what he's done in the past is any direction to what he'll do in the future. >> from what you've heard so far, do you know where your vote rests? if it comes to it. >> if it comes to it, my vote would be for impeachment. >> why? >> i sat in the close-door hearings because i'm on oversight and then i listened to
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everything because of my other committee obligations. but i think that he abused his power. i think that he tried to interfere with elections. i think there was bribery involved. a lot of different thingsment i don't think he's following the constitution. >> how many days left in this congressional calendar? >> we go back on tuesday. so we have next week. we're supposed to get out on december 12th. >> that's a short timeline left. >> i don't think that's gonna happen, though. >> let me ask you this. i know there's impeachment going on. and there's a decision whether or not to send articles to the senate in a very quick fashion. i know democrats want to do it quickly. but what about the other stuff? there is a government funding bill that needs to pass. where do you stand on that? >> i think it needs to pass. >> how close are we to getting it passed? >> i think it will pass. i don't think anyone wants to see the government shut down. we've been there, done that. i don't think democrats or republicans want to see that
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happen. and one thing the speaker's always talked about. yes, we are investigating but we're also legislating, too. we've passed about 400 bills we sent to the senate, 275 of them have been bipartisan. from, you know, i've been working on maternal mortality. that came out of enc in a bipartisan way. we've sent the gun-violence prevention bills over. we've sent hr1 about ethics. hr4, you know, voting rights. but nothing is being taken up. >> what about usmca? >> they're still working on that. i'm hoping that we can get to a yes really quickly. >> where is the divide right now? >> i think it has to do with workers' rights. and that's very important in the united states. my district is urban, suburban, and rural. so it's really tough because my farmers have really suffered. and they want to see this happen. so i know we're trying to get to yes. and the negotiators, those involved, are trying to get to
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yes. >> the president was just in afghanistan. he talked about reopening talks with the taliban. do you think that's a fruitful endeavor? >> coming from him, no. i -- i -- i just don't trust him anymore. i just think it's a ploy. all of a sudden, you know, a surprise visit. he's been the president, what, 3 1/2 plus years and this is his first visit. so i just don't trust why he does the things that he does. but, of course,we ca we can get peace, that's what we all want. >> republicans have said just to go back to impeachment that this is a foregone conclusion for democrats. that they've wanted to impeach him from the start. and they say that this is a decision that should be left with the public. and there are independents out there and might even be some democrats who agree with this. that maybe the process is a little too political for this moment in time. nancy pelosi has said that saids a threat to the 2020 election, and that's why this impeachment process needs to go through. do you think that that argument
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is being made soundly enough, cogently enough to enough of the american public to move the needle? >> the bottom line is we are doing our jobs, and no one wants to be here, no one wants to impeach the president. and the message they are trying to pass along that we wanted to do this from the beginning, yes, we were disappointed that he won, but there is a respect for the office, and we want him to succeed because if the president succeeds, hopefully the country is succeeding. so i don't buy that that it's political. but i see what the people are saying let the voters choose. but we have to do our job also. >> thanks for joining us. usually we only get tri-staters. >> i'm a native. i'm here visiting for thanksgiving. >> well, we love to have you and happy black friday, i guess. and now with the holiday season officially underway, we have much to be thankful for including the very food on our
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tables. but it has been a difficult year for some of the nation's largest food processors, u.s. dairy farmers. nbc's vaughn hillyard traveled to beaver dam, wisconsin, and spoke with two small dairy farmers who are determined to hold on despite plummeting milk prices. >> reporter: for dale, farming is in his blood. a fourth-generation dairy farmer. he and his father work land in beaver dam, wisconsin, that's been in the family more than a century. farming has always been tough but never as tough as it is now. >> guys have been going out. there's less and less dairymen every year in the state of wisconsin. >> reporter: milk prices have plummeted 40% in recent years and contributing to a rise in farmer suicides. amid this backdrop, u.s. agriculture secretary sonny purdue sparked outrage early this fall when he suggested it was up to small farms to grow or
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struggle to survive. he told an agriculture reporter. >> in america, the big get bigger and the small go out. it's very difficult on an economy of scale to survive, milking 40, 50, or 60 or even a hundred cows. >> do you think he understands the dairy industry? >> maybe? he's not here. he's a little removed, i think, from the dairy industry. getting bigger is not always better. you can invest, you can borrow, but you still got to have the income on the other end to brick it back in. and it's not there. >> reporter: their solution? stay small. they have 70 cows and kept at low, it's the only way to ride out the current storm. just down the road the peepers' neighbor did invest in technology to grow her 160-cow farm because she says human labor was getting harder to find and keep. now three robots do the milking. but at a price, $220,000 each.
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lorie says it will take her at least 20 years to pay it all off. >> when you invested, what does that cost look like? >> millions. it cost millions. >> reporter: laurie said she can't afford to grow her farm any bigger. her message to agriculture chief purdue. >> it costs more to make the milk than you are getting for the milk. we don't need any more milk. just to make a blanket statement that let's all get bigger and all produce more milk is not the answer. >> reporter: laurie and dale both hope to have farms to pass on to future generations. >> it's terrible watching everyone twiddling and hoping that they can get the next loan to put in the next crop. if you can't, what are you going to do, your farm's done. it's not fair. >> reporter: two of america's small farms facing unprecedented challenges, and an uncertain
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future. vaughn hillyard, beaver dam, wisconsin. >> joining me now is jake levine, former energy and climate aide to president obama. i had michael mann on last hour talking about the environment and one of the things was the u.n. climate report and one of the things he said could jumpstart progress on fighting climate change is to put a price on carbon from a policy standpoint. what would that look like? >> reporter: well, there is plenty -- nice to be here, katie, happy black friday. there are plenty of ways that policymakers have sought to price carbon. the most straightforward way that you've probably heard of is a carbon tax. and that's something that even republicans have proposed in our latest congress. there are other pricing mechanisms in california. we have a system here called cap and trade, which sets a cap in terms of the amount of emissions that certain industries are allowed to emit.
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and then they're able to trade those carbon credits that get generated underneath the cap at a set price through an auction. that's another carbon pricing mechanism. on the subject of agriculture, there's also a lot of action in states to implement strategies called a low carbon fuel standard, which actually requires that people who produce fuels, oil companies and also biofuels manufacturers, that they reduce the carbon intensity of those fuels, and that also effectively puts a price on carbon by requiring reductions upstream and downstream in terms of the carbon intensity of those fuels. >> so when you talk about climate change, it's hard not to talk about the energy industry, it's hard to not talk about carbon. it's also hard to not talk about agriculture and the way we farm. is it sustainable the current system we have right now, and how are donald trump's policies affecting it? >> sure. well, you know, agriculture
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contributes to something on the order of 20 or 25% of our global emissions. and it's a sector that's very difficult for us to reduce emissions from because of the way in which we eat. and -- but agriculture is also, as a result, a huge opportunity. and there are plenty of methods. you know, you talk about trump's trade war in the last segment. and instead of pumping billions of dollars into subsidies that are meant to replace the losses created by the trade war, the trump administration could be investing and paying farmers, frankly, to manage their crops, their soil, their agricultural techniques in a way that could actually create carbon sequestration opportunities and more resilient farms. in the last drought in california, california farmers lost $3 billion worth of productivity. and this last season in the midwest farmers in iowa and
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neighboring states may lose their entire growing season. but if we are able to invest in resiliency, in proper crop rotation techniques, grazing techniques, those are the types of investments that could actually reduce emissions and also create more sustainable farms. >> and what is this trade war doing to china on the subject of climate change? >> well -- >> trenching and i guess the reusing of home-grown energy like coal? >> sure. and also, you know, other countries are starting to deforest, most notably brazil, in order to satisfy the chinese demand for beef. and so when you think about this trade war, it has huge climate impacts in terms of the growth of emissions coming from deforestation in south america just to satisfy the global market in china that's no longer
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being met through healthy u.s./china trade. >> jake, thanks for joining us and have a happy holiday weekend. >> you too. >> and we've been bringing you coverage all afternoon of the breaking news out of london. a stabbing on the london bridge which police are calling a terrorist attack. the commissioner gave us an update on the investigation. >> it is with the heaviest of hearts that i have to inform you that as well as the suspect who was shot dead by police, two of those injured in this attack in the london bridge area have tragically lost their lives. my heart goes out to their loved ones and to the three further injured victims who i understand are being treated in hospital. >> three others remain injured and are being treated in a nearby hospital. authorities are still investigating the motive. and that'll do it for me, for
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this past two hours. i'm katy tur. "deadline: white house" is up next. ♪ hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington d.c. three weeks of high-stakes hearings for more than a dozen witnesses spanning thousands of pages of testimony. and next week the impeachment inquiry moves to the next phase, the house judiciary committee will hold its first day of public hearings as it prepares to draft articles of impeachment. so we thought today would be a good day for a reset, a closer look at how we got here, both the testimony that confirmed those urgent credible warnings from the whistle-blower and the timeline itself for the ukraine saga. starting last spring on april 21st, president zelensky was elected on a platform of


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