tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC December 3, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PST
tonight on "all in." likely new charges for rudy giuliani's ukraine crew as the impeachment of donald j. trump proceeds. >> one is bribery. >> tonight what we know about the intelligence committee found. >> there is nothing more dangerous than an unethical president who believes he is above the law. >> what it all means for the president and his lawyer. then are house democrats are about to give the president a political victory on trade? the indicted house
republican he threw his wife under the bus takes a plea. >> whatever she did will be looked at i'm sure. but i didn't do that. >> reporter: and how he leveraged his daddy was position to be on the "new york times" list. >> i didn't do it through my daddy's taxpayer funded office. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the house intelligence committee has begun reviewing this hour a review on everything they've learned so far. there was also over 120 hours of testimony behind closed doors. and before all those hearings, we knew, from the call notes the white house itself released that the white house tried to extort ukraine into helping him win the election. remember the phrase, i would
like you to do us a favor though. but after spending a few weeks watching and reading the hundreds of hours of testimony, according to the testimony of career civil servants, the president extorted ukraine. unsuccessfully in the end, it appears. the committee is expected to vote to approve the vote and that will head to the house judiciary for review. they'll use that report to condicide whether to draft articles of impeachment. they will be holding a public hearing examining the constitutional grounds for the president's impeachment. we just learned a few hours ago this evening, the witnesses will be three chosen by republicans and one by democrats. tonight house republicans released their own impeachment prebuttal. a 123-page report that alleges
president trump did nothing even slightly improper. the "washington post" calling it a series of red herring and the trump administration in congress have spent week skz months complaining about the process. for one it how dare you talk to witness withes behind closed doors and then they held public meetings and then. this is a circus. then when they offered a chance to send a lawyer to the judiciary's hearing, the white house refused to participate. all this is happening while there are all sorts of outstanding of facts and law that loom over the whole thing. for one, why the court cases get the president's tax returns or which witness withes are compelo ber before them.
one judge refuses to it delay her order for mcgahn to comply for the subpoena. there is also a criminal case that continues to wind its way through the southern district of new york. that would be the case of rudy giuliani's indicted associates. remember they represented themselves to congress as part of the president's own legal team. and they allegedly worked to smear and remove that former u.s. ambassador of ukraine from her post. the lawyers for one of the men, parnas says he would like the provide documents to the house intelligence committee. parnas would need a judge's approval to do that. another thing to keep your eye on. the same hearing, the federal prosecutors say is likely they'll file more charges although they did not say whether or not anyone else would be charged.
and two people who have been closely following the impeachment process. msnbc contributor and elizabeth who sat on the house judiciary committee during the watergate impeaches, and author of "the case for impeaching trump." you know there's two stories that have been going forward with over the last month or two. there's the story of the whistleblower complaint that became the impeachment inquiry which will likely be the impeachment over the extortion of ukraine and the two intersect. their activities in ukraine and furthering the president's extortion plot are part of what they're indicted for. how much do you see these two roads crossing? >> extensively given these two men were essentially acting as intermediaries between rudy giuliani and the president.
ex-ukrainian officials were trying to oust, for example, the former ambassador to ukraine, that we're trying to push this theory that he acted improper on the energy company board. they were directly at the center of this acting as intermediaries orfixers. and now one of them wants to tell congress what he knows. that could be exceedingly dangerous for rudy giuliani and the president. because this is someone who has told the press, through his lawyer, that he was directly involved in conversations with the president about going on a so-called secret mission to dig up dirt on joe biden and ukraine and oust the ukrainian ambassador, yovanovitch. this person most likely has treasure trove of emails and text messages because he is
burned by the fact that the president has tried to distance himself from him even though they've attended numerous events together, etc. >> there's a nexus between the criminal case and the congressional inquiry that recalls watergate. my wife was rereading the history of the era. the judge encouraged cooperation with the impeachment inquiry and even offered favorable terms if they did in fact cooperate with congress. >> as i remember what the judge did, he smelled a rat from the beginning of the watergate burglary. and he -- first of all he said senate, house, something smells here. you got to step in and do something. and that's triggered the senate/watergate hearing. the second thing he did was impose tough sentences on the burglars and one of them came forward and broke. so the outside federal judge who
smell as rat can make a big difference. and these documents could have a major impact. there are lots of them. >> let's talk about what we're go going to see this week. how much left is there for judiciary to do? because the fact finding has been done by the intel committee. >> they have to help themselves, the rest of the american people understand what it means by him the impeachment clause. what's bribery? treason doesn't apply here. we have to do that in the nixon inquiry. we did behind closed doors. we-our own committee staff, we-to do our own homework. but we also studied that and i think it's important to understand the meaning of the term. the second thing that's going to happen is they have to decide what are they going toing do with the facts they receive?
how do they fit into the articles of impeachment. and secondly f there is, is there going to be an article on bribery? or only on abuse of power. the other thing is it going to consider anything aside from ukraine gate. these are three critical issues in congress. >> one thing we've seen from senate republicans is increasingly faced with the choice whether to extend the most indefenceable statements like the truly insane conspiracy theory he was pursuing on the phone call or chastise the president and say he shouldn't be impeached. they've gone with the former. you see republicans increasingly saying it was a perfect phone call. we love him, we love hum. the senate intel committee looked into this claim that ukraine was somehow meddling in the election and found esengs
tlael was no there there. >> the senate intel committee began looking into this in 2017 right after a "plolitico" repor was published outlining ukrainian bureaucrats and officials at the embassy to allegedly help a dnc contractor look into paul manafort and the contractor was called in to testify before the senate intel committee and she really -- it was considered by all akoupccou to be a complete waste of time because what the republicans were looking for is a top down conspiracy of the kind russia did when they interfeared in 2016 with a wide-ranging influence campaign that may have been comparable to russia's election interference. but they found nothing of the sort. what they found was scatter shot efforts by few ukrainian diplomats here and there, who obviously did prefer hillary
clinton because trump was saying he would look the-to allowing crimea being allowed as russian territory and lifting russian sanctions. so obviously -- they looked into this thoroughly and did not find a wide-ranging top founding theory. and the idea that republicans are saying ukrainians interfered in the same way russia did is disingenuine due do all the intel to debunk that. >> michael steele, now an msnbc political analyst and former republican congressman from oklahoma. tlrtz i never thought it would be the case you'd see an overwhelming break with the president that he should be
impeached. it's always been partisan with the exception of nixon, right? it seems to me they are choosing in the report they issue today, the maximalest path. the path of it was perfect. >> it was perfect. you saw what senator kennedy from louisiana is doing. he is making up stuff. he is pretending that he's going to be a great champion for this guy in the white house. and he forgot that the president just went down to his state of louisiana and urged people there to vote against the -- >> democrat -- >> governor who won. and i think he's making a big mistake and i think democrats have the republicans in a box because they're in a position now, whether instead of just saying it's not impeachable, what they're saying is they're denying the facts that everybody
knows that both of the committees keep coming out with. they have no stand. >> part of what mickey was referring to is john kennedy's appearance on "meet the press." for context, the president is potentially attempting to extort two investigation from president zelensky. one is on hunter and joe biden. and the other is 9/11 conspiracy theory about the servers. the dnc hacked itself and the dnc helped ukraine frame russia for it. this is kennedy helping to bolster factual predicate. >> russia was very aggressive and they're much more sophisticated. but the fact that russia was so aggressive does not exclude the fact that president poroshanko
actively worked for secretary clinton. >> wait a minute, senator kennedy, ynow have the senator f ukraine saying he actively worked for hull hill. the only other person selling this argument outside the united states is this man, vladimir putin. >> this is where we're sort of at, michael. >> it's exactly where we're at and it's amazing to me to watch the evolution move out of the house and now into the senate space. it's been my contention all along and senator kennedy is a precursor of where this is going to come that this whole effort has been about two things. gum it up as much as possible, chris. make sure nothing makes sense to anyone. you just sit and scratch your head and go is that really true? that's number one. and number two, when it comes to
the senate, that mitch mcconnell will be in the best position possible to say there's no there there. i don't think we're going to take this matter up or we'll take it up but it's baked in what the result is going to be because you've had folks like mr. graham saying i'm not even going to lead to material that comes over from the house. this is a precursor to make sure that donald trump has maximum republican protection and the question i have is for what? because at the end of the day what do you get out of it? >> and the other thing is you can protect him in a way will herd did. there are ways to say he shouldn't be impeached for what happened that there not repeating this crazy theory aside from just factualy wrong or highly misleading. >> they're trying to do the same thing trump does himself, which
is sure but some people saw this. so that the public says well, there's two sides here. >> or enough of the public and particularly the president's base, can sort of point to a bunch of things that feels like it lets him off the hook, this is a witch hunt and yaudau yaudau. >> you have trump himself, who takes everything to the maximum extreme and just makes it from witch hunt to this and that. and then everyone following behind him have to go that far as well. >> yes, they all become everyone. it is wild to watch. i saw this happen this weekend. there's a fight in which johnny isaacs is retiring in the georgia senate. there's a bizarre battle in which the president wants him to name collins where there's a strong backing back for the
president. he goes una in and rails agains media. and what you see is just this kind of counter personality, a total one where matt gates is second guessing the president's judgment. he wants people that are essentially pod raw around him. >> that's the scariest part, chris. whether he stays or goes, he's leaving us where we have to rebuild civil society. we have to rebuild the whole society of democratic society that we've-. because he's eroding all the values l the norms. it's a cult, as you said, that everybody thinks we have to go along with what he wants. he'll tell us -- >> exactly. he's going to tell the governor of georgia who he should appoint and it's illegitimate for anyone
to contest or disagree with the president on that. that there's no space for anyone to have an independent view on any matter. >> no. there is only one view and that's trump's view. and to mickey's point, that's what makes this all so very dangerous. we will have to do serious rebuilding. not just the republican marty, which is somewhat irrelevant in the overall scheme of democracy because we've talken ourselves so far outside. we're not even near a stream. year in the middle of nowhere with donald trump screaming at us. but that's the problem for therist of us as we try to put back in place those institutions that have safeguarded not just our domestic security but our foreign security as well. and it makes it much harder to do when you second guess and doubt everything that you hear, see, and read. >> and that's the idea behind it all. thank you both, gentleman.
so this week starts the next big phase in the impeachment inquiry where we go from question oz of fact to questions of law. they did the fact-finding portion. it will be a question for the judiciary committee to deal with what crimes and misdemeanors and whether the president has met that standard. one of the leading thinkers in congress on the house judiciary committee is congressman jaime rasken of maryland and who's been providing guidance on how to navigate this. what do you see? i mean there was complaints from the republicans.
there was a ghost of a point which is it was different than how it's been handled in the past when the judiciary committee did that part. what do you view as your committee's role? >> we're going to look at what the founders meant by having impeachment in the constitution. we know the electoral college meets every four years so why did the framers decide to have impeachment in there? they wanted the people to have a last implement against a president who acts like a king and tramples the rule of law. our constitution is an antimonarchal constitution. before it was all kings and queens and corruption and treachery, and war by the kingdoms for power. our founders wanted government on a different principal and that's why in the old days it was the king and queen and
clergy and at the very bottom was the people. our founders flipped it upside down and said we, the people, and we started it that way. the framers put in every conceivable safeguard to make sure the president would not become like a king. >> you're using an originalest framework which is interesting as a collection of legal theory. what do you say if someone says i don't care what the founders thought. why should i care? i'm a nurse or i'm a real estate professional. and i don't like donald trump. but what is the bite of what he has done in the life of the republican and life of a citizen? >> the whole point is it's about the common people. it's about all of us. he's going to be an instrument of the common good. it's not a opportunity for a
president to expand his business empire and to work with tyrants and despite around the world to promote his financial and political interests. it's supposed to be an instrument of the common good. it's supposed to be to provide for the common defense 378. to preserve to ourselves and posterity the blessings of lubberty. that's in the preample of our oconstitution and all of that flows the to article one which says the ledge slottigislative vested uncongress and we are vested with the whole law making power, congress, war, copyright anden the you get to article otwo and it's four short sections. and one is about impeaching a president who forgets what his job is and what's his job? to take care that laws are faithfully executed. >> you outlined a broadcast in
this abstract theoretical therms in the difference between the president aan presidency as a public trust, verses the president using it as a private, get-rich-quick operation or a private means of machine power. corrupt war bosses, right? >> right. >> is that the case you anticipate making because that's different than down the pipe, which is ukraine? >> i'm talking about the facts related to the framers of the constitution. what they-in mind, we have to recover that. in other words we need a national civics lesson. the congress was charged with the power. the president's job is the agent of the popular will as expressed through congress. why do we have the power to
impeach the president and he doesn't have the power to impeach us? because the framers wanted to put the people and their representatives in charge. what year about to embark on is not crime and punishment. donald trump would not go to jail one day under impeachment. it's with about making sure the government is working for the people and not the private interest of the president or anyone else. >> here's the way in which the house caucus has responded to facts. basically they thought the mueller report was very bad, thought it showed the president did obstruct justice and that's a an impeachable offense. but they were weary and there's a political will that has to happen. and the members of your caucus seen this to rig the next election and how much it does that figure in the case you
think you have to make about why it crosses such an important line? >> it's essential. and the mueller report was about what happened in 2016 and that election. and attorney general barr essentially kidnapped the report, misstated the contents, misled the public, prompting special counsel mueller to write two letters of protest about confusion to the public. but this was very different with the ukraine shakedown because it was happening in real time. and the president wasn't deligating it. he was on the july 25th phone call. he was the one that sent rudy giuliani and his operatives over to do shake down the ukrainian government. attorney general barr was not tubl cover it up. and so this is the most vivid demonstration of how they're doing business in the trump white house. but that is the question that haunts me, personally, as
journalist that covers day in and day out. and if it isn't, i would like the facts in evidence about what the back channel with turkey is like and a variety of other foreign policy moves the president has made through those back channels. they've been incredibly friendly to states left scratching their head. he thinks financial interests are driving the policy. that's john bolton. >> krs. yes. and the amaluments clause is essential. it's not the president's job to sell his influence to foreign powers to get himself rich. nor is the president's job to channel the taxpayer's money into his own business. >> i feel like i do not know fully as a u.s. citizen the full facts of the matter.
>> i share your passion for finding out the answers to every single one of those particular leads. there's no doubt that's something we've got to do in terms of conducting our oversight responsibility. on the other hand, donald trump, i would say not in the context of the impeachment process but as political observer who's watched him for several years. he is a one-man crime wave. he has more than 3,000 lawsuits he's embroiled in. in priech private business he didn't pay plummers, carpenters. we're not going to be able to do all of that here. but what we can do is too determine whether there were high crimes and misdemeanors. they talk about bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. they're betrayals of the essential duties of the office. treason betrays national security.
bribery betrays the public interest and other high crimes and misdemeanors are essentially substituting your private ambitions for your national interests and i think ukraine episode captures all of them and leads to the other abuses of power, the obstruction of justice we've seen from the very beginning as the president tried block aid witness withes, frustrate our investigations at everiturn. and everybody should be concerned about that. whatever you think about the shakedown itself. whether you think it's bribery, extortion or something else. everybody should be opposed because it means we have a bhooz can operate with impunity and immunity because he's able to cover up all the evidence of his crimes. that's a dangerous precedent. thank you for having me. nex that trump
there are eight legislative days left on the legislative calendar this year and the number one priority for donald trump is getting the house of representatives to pass nafta 2.0 or the u.s. nca. united states, mexico, canada agreement. somewhat remarkably, giveen the situation we're in, a significant number of house democrats representing swing districts seem eager to do the same. because it would give them a tangible deliverable.
something they can say we worked across the aisle. you should vote to send us back to congress. but at the same time labor unions are still opposed to many of the features especially on the enforcement side. and there's a real open political question about whether radifying one of the president's biggest agenda items and handing him a victory is the best way to use the control of the house while also impeaching him. joining us is editor for "the american prospect" museum. i've been reading you and you've been doing a lot of reporting. let me get your as someone who's been covering this closely, where things stand right now with the possibility of it being ratified? >> the last thing that nancy pelosi said was she was hopeful there could be something she could put on the floor by the end of the year.
if you dig in and look at the names of who is pushing for this deal, it's the same dozen 15 democrats from marginal districts led by sherry, who's the head of the dccc and rupee neal, who is the head of the ways and means committee, who's a sort of corporate avatar in some ways. these are who are pushing for the deal for the reasons you described. our sources say unless the head of the aflcio actually signs off on this thing, it's very unlikely to pass. we've heard that from members. pelosi's in the middle of this, kind of workbing between the dozen odd house democrats who seem to be wanting to get something done to say they're
getting something done and the vast majority of the caucus and the labor movement who are opposed to it. >> before this drafting was more finalized and these questions were in doubt, it would be a genuinely difficult cross pressure situation if you believed whole heartedly it with was a good agreement but you'd be handing a political victory to donald trump. do i believe in the agreement? we should sign it and if donald trump gets credit, that's what i'm here to do is legislate. but it's the case of the biggest constituency is still not on board yet, right? >> and the biggest problem is enforcement. we have a situation in mexico where trade unionests are being killed, kidnapped, disappeared. and we're going to potentially pass a trade deal that allows
them to operate and assumes they're going to enforce the labor sections of the agreement, which is supposed to be better for workers in mexico in terms of their labor and conditions. in turn, the theory goes, will limit out sourcing and improve the industrial base in the united states. it doesn't make a lot of sense that would be the case. and there are other things in the agreement that are positive. it's a mixed bag. but an agreement that the enforcement is sketchy on isn't really with worth the paper it's printed on, if the whole point is to improve labor conditions and have that rising tide lift all boats throughout north america. >> dave dan, executive editor of "the american prospect". still ahead donald trump jr. gets a boost in book sales. the bulk orders by republican groups. rders by republican
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republican. for chris collins, insider trading, pleaded guilty and awaiting sentencing. duncan hunter was charged with 60 counts related to mis-yousus campaign funds. he told us his wife did. >> you said yesterday your wife handled a lot of the family expenses and the campaign finances. so you're saying it's more her fault than your fault? >> i'm saying what i went to iraq in 2003, i gave her power of attorney and she handled my finances throughout my entire military career and that continued in congress. and she was the campaign manager. so whatever she did, that will be looked at too, i'm sure. but i didn't do it. >> whatever she did, that will be looked at sure. husband of the year, duncan hunter, is changing his tune. hae
duncan hunter, the republican congressman representing california's 50th district was indicted along with his wife for misusing campaign funds. truly impressive variety of inappropriate items. they apparently spent 1300 on video games, 800 on an oral surgeon, 14,000 to a family vacation to italy. more than 600 bucks to fly the family 's pet rabbit across the country. $462 for 30 shots of tequila and
a steak at bachelor party and $865 for a stay at hotel not his wife. for a while he was blaming his son and his wife was in charge of finances. alas, he's taking it all back. tomorrow morning he says he's taking a deal. he's taking full responsibility for his actions, sort of. >> the plea that i accepted was misuse of my own campaign funds of which i pled guilty to only one count. i think it's important to know that i did make mistakes. i did not properly monitor or account for my campaign money. i justify that plea with the understanding that i am responsible for my campaign and what happens to my campaign money. what happens to my campai money. health markets compares your current plan with
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call the number on your screen now. it's a new month out there, folks. you know what that means. we can finally announce our friday audience show os. i'm excited to share with you. so there are two dates on the calendar. tickets are available right now, as in this second, if you head to our website, msnbc.com/all in and join us. this weekend is the very last stop of the podcast tour.
our guests are amazingly talented thinkers, conversationalests. these events have been astounding. i'll be joined by tony kushner he's a pulitzer, tony and play write most known for "a bright moon called day." plus i'm going to talk to jeremy o'hares whose blowing up right now. all three of us will be in new york at town hall this sunday, december 8th. be with us for a wide-ranging conversation during these truly is surreal times. cannot wait to see you there. cannot wait to see you there
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published last month and it debuted at number one in the "new york times" best seller list. it dagger indicates it's on the best seller list not necessarily because a lot of people are buying copies but because some entities are buying the book in bulk. "new york times" has a story on how book sales helped propel it to number one. money spent by the republican party and outfits. so, what's the story on bulk puchss? >> we found nine organizations of conservative groups either selling the book to donors or promoting stops on trump's book tour and it adds up for a first-time author who hasn't held office and still best known as his father's son.
>> the national republican congressional committee spent $75,000 on copies of the book and turning point u.s.a.-bought about 2,000 copies. just let folks know. for the first few weeks, that's an enormous amount of sales. >> it's no question. he's a trump. it's a large book for the imprint. got a book tour and the question is where would he be? people say he'll be number one no matter what. the point is i found 36 million emails sent out to people who were part of these different groups promoting the book. >> that is a lot of publicity. that's not that much but it's a great thing for a first-time author and you put pretty much
any book in 36 million emails, it's going to have a pretty good chance. >> the books are stock piled in the office in boxes. i think we have the photooo oand it's underneath a poster that says capitalism, not cronyism. so that was sent by a person who work withs there there was a qun as to what the books are for. they plan to hand them out to vip ticket hold oers where donald trump and a headliner, signing books. >> i think it's hilarious because it's getting a bunch of help from daddy. there's been a cultural transformation among the republican campaign operations and affiliated groups, which is they're spending more more money at trump properties. at one time would be seen as
paying off donors and some -- >> from the trump otell in washington to trump in florida, to any number of resorts. they have vizzets for the administration, hold your event at trump property. if you're a foreign company, hold your independence day at trump property. hold your holiday at trump property. everyone understands this is a helpful way to get ahead in trump's washington. >> the paper was blank, a prop. the president wasn't divesting with an erect conceptual barrier between him and his businesses and his larger adult sons would run the business while he took
time away from them. >> it's hard to keep track. donald trump is attacking impeachment witnesses says i'm a private citizen. he's a political figurer for the president. so they seem to inhabit both roles as convenient for them. >> do you think there is any pushback among donors? that's part of what's so interesting here. most of the places wiyou would y pay to play is people raising money for them is fine with the its president and his family getting a cut? >> almost everyone get a book clicked on an email and said i will give you money for a copy thin book. i don't think donors are being harmed in the making of the book sale.
donors do want it and they enjoy what he brings to the table as a trump surrogate. he ticks off the right people and they love that. that is what conservatism is. that's all for "all in". next "the 11th hour". tonight our look at what the white house will and won't be doing this week. plus why attorney general barr might denounce an upcoming report from his own justice department, perhaps because it might clear some of the same people the president has been attacking nonstop. and senator john, no rerelation, kennedy, goes deep on the republican talking points for a second week in a row. all evidence to the contrary