tv MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi MSNBC December 6, 2019 12:00pm-1:00pm PST
expecting to see massive protests erupt. so, you know, i know there are people complaining about the traffic in d.c. maybe -- maybe take the -- take the fight to the steps of exxon mobil, shell, bp, chevron. >> amy, thanks so much for joining us. we'll have you back on soon. that'll wrap things up for me this hour. she's got a podcast called "drilled." and i've been listening to it and it'll make your blood boil along with the boiling temperatures we're experiencing. but she -- and we talked about this. but it is a really good explainer for how we got here. and she goes back to the '70s and talks about how exxon mobil was at the forefront or exxon was at the forefront of -- of climate science. >> yep. >> they were at the forefront. they knew what was going on. >> they wanted to be the bell labs of climate science and they were able to predict warming. they were able to predict what releasing carbon in the atmosphere was going to do. and then when they realized that it was -- or some people in the company realized that it was going to affect their bottom
line, they hired different scientists to doubt the scientists that said there was going to be global warming. basically, predicted where we are today. and they hired big pr firms. and they started aggressively lobbying, not only the government but -- but us, the american people, to try to convince us that what scientists found was not true. and scientists were not actually scientists. and so this massive effort, we were all on the same page for a long time. and then suddenly, we weren't. nobody argued with scientists a few decades ago. and now, suddenly, it's almost like it's a -- it's a question up for debate whether climate change exists. >> there was the oil industry and there was the tobacco industry. they were both doing the same thing. they both had information about what was really the case and both spent a great deal of money convincing us otherwise. but drilled is important because it reminds people that for all the good things people want to do about climate and say they want to do, this is about fossil fuel. for everybody who wants to give
up meat and you should and beef is really bad for the climate. it is not nearly as bad for the climate. if you do all those other things, plastic bags, paper straws, going vegan, if you do not deal with fossil fuels, you're stuck. >> yeah. i mean, you could recycle everything in your life. >> correct. >> without that, we're not going anywhere. >> good to see you, my friend. have a good weekend. >> you too. it's a weird way to end the show. >> it's important, though. it is friday, december the 6th. quote our hearts and prayers are connected to all those that everybody us every day. those from pensacola mayor this morning an aviation officer in the saudi air force shot and killed three victims and injured three others at the u.s. naval station pensacola. the gunman was also killed in the opening fire at the classroom building. the air station is the headquarters for the naval education training command. we're going to explain that in a little bit. it is the first naval air station in the country. it employs more than 16,000 military members. 7,400 civilian personnel. the sense of community was
underscored by city officials. the fbi is now investigating to determine if the shooting was terror-related. the deadly incident marked the second shooting at a u.s. navy base this week. joining me now from the site of the shooting in pensacola, florida, is nbc's blane alexander. also with me, malcolm nance. terrorism analyst for msnbc and former chief petty officer for the u.s. navy. blane, let's start with you. get us up to speed on what's going on. >> yeah. well, ali, i think the biggest thing is that we had that -- that update just within the past hour or so. we heard from florida governor rhonda s ron desantis. we learned one thing. the number of injured has gone to eight. but the other thing we're learning is we're learning more about how this shooting unfolded in the first place. we do know now that the shooter
had a hand gun on him. that was the weapon that was used in the shooting. and, of course, the big question is how exactly was he able to get that handgun on to base? as you know, weapons are certainly not allowed. in fact, the commander reiterated that in the news conference with us. so that was one of the questions i asked him. i said are there security protocols, security measures in place to stop something like this from happening? and while he wouldn't go into that, he said that there are security measures. but, in fact, perhaps more coincidentally, they just had an active shooter drill not too long ago to practice for something very similar to this scenario. so we know the call came in, ali, at about 6:30 this morning local time. now, just to kind set the scene for you here. the naval air station is a very busy base. there are some 10,000 people who come in and out of the base every single day. in fact, 6:30 in the morning is a busy time because if you can kind of see the road behind me, the bridge that leads to that entrance. that area is packed on a normal day. people just trying to come in. trying to come in the morning.
so when we hear from officials what the scene was like this morning, we know that it was almost absolute chaos. in fact, i just spoke with the sheriff's captain who talked to me about what that scene looked like. he said that there was broken glass on the ground when he got there. some of the glass had blood. unfortunately, he saw some bodies there on the ground. so certainly a very chaotic scene. one final thing that i want to point out for you, ali, is among the eight injured, two of them are sheriff's deputies. that's because they were among the first to arrive. they engaged in a sort of gun battle back and forth with the shooter. were ultimately able to take him down but the two of them were shot themselves. they're non-life threatening injuries. one in the arm. one in the leg. but again, being hailed as heroes today for getting to the scene in about three minutes. >> blane, i want to go to donald trump now. president trump talking about the shooting. let's listen in. >> saudi arabia just called to express its sincere condolences and give his sympathies to the families and friends of the
warriors who were killed and wounded in the attack that took place just recently. just this morning in pensacola, florida. the king said that the saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter. and that this person in no way, shape, or form represents the feelings of the saudi people, who love the american people so much. so that was just given to me by the king of saudi arabia. and i can tell you it's a horrible thing that took place. and we're getting to the bottom of it. all of the investigators are there now. and they're studying it very closely. and terrible thing. and our condolences go to the families. and to everybody involved, including the wounded. we have some badly wounded people also. and we have to extend our condolences to them. and we'll be working with them all very closely. so i just wanted to let you know that was from king solomon.
and today, we are here to talk to some of the very hard-working citizens. >> the president goes on to talk about an economic matter, which we will keep an eye on. but the president did say in response to a question about whether he thought this was terrorism. he said that that's all being studied now. we will be talking about it very soon. it will be a report and the report will come out very soon. i want to go back to blane alexander and malcolm nance. malcolm, naval air station pensacola has a partnership with the royal saudi air force, if people are wondering why there would be a saudi military member who would have been involved in this. they -- they are -- they train saudi national pilots, leaders, junior officers. this is something that goes on. it goes on at other bases across america. we have people we train from other countries. how do you deal with this? >> well, to a certain extent, we
deal with it the exact same way we deal with u.s. service members, men and women who are serving on our bases. royal saudi air force, royal saudi navy, they have trainers and trainees all over the united states. from san diego all the way out to pensacola. so we -- they come here by the thousands in the united states. and they are on the whole, they're dedicated to the crown. they are usually some of their best people. you -- you generally can't come to the united states unless you have a very high proficiency level in english. and down in pensacola, that's where they train pilots, air crew, naval aviation technicians, and saudi air force technicians who maintain helicopters and systems which are american made and they need to get that training here in the united states. >> what -- obviously, these people are vetted. i mean, do we assume the saudis vet them? do we vet them? is this -- this is a system that has worked for a long time. has there been a problem with it? >> well, you know, vetting is a
big word when you're talking about trying to figure out the internal motivations of an individual. i mean, we've, to a certain extent, the people who came on 9/11. you know, the hijackers, 19 hijackers, they were vetted also. and a lot into the united states on saudi visas for education and training. but what is inside the mind of someone who is potentially an extremist, we don't know. and we should caution even going towards terrorism at this point because there are three factors that i can calculate based on my experience that could be at play here. and i've seen it in other -- other bases when i was assigned to san diego. one, you could have a person who has an honor slight and that means someone within the chain of command, even another saudi, has, you know, insulted that person and dishonored them in some way. and i've seen that stew. certainly, when i was working in the middle east and turn into violence. the second is a personal, emotional relationship. and that -- that's been
disturbed whether it's a relationship with another man or a woman. or somebody within their team or one of the instructors. we see this from time to time in our, you know, in -- in what we call green-on-blue engagements overseas with some of the trainers. and then finally, it could be extremism where this person was either self-radicalized or radicalized by a terrorist group. and then he carries out an extremist act. we just don't know at this point. but you have to understand. that is a big military base with a lot of military systems. and so you would think that an extremist, although they would deinvol de-volve, there are a lot of training systems and aircraft they could have used for something a lot more horrific. but we don't know. and as the chief of police said this morning, let's hold on before we start going straight to the t word. >> malcolm, good to have your analysis at a time like this. blane alexander and malcolm
nance. former naval officer. on to the other major story that we're following. more than 500 legal scholars say in a public letter quote whether president trump's conduct is classified as bribery or as a high crime or misdemeanor or as both, it is clearly impeachable under our constitution. exactly two hours from now, the deadline for the white house to tell the house judiciary committee if it will participate will have come and gone. earlier today, hogan gidley said he expects the administration will respond to the request by the end of the day but gave no specifics. but according to an nbc news report, trump and the white house counsel have shifted their focus already to the republican-led senate where a trial over trump's removal is expected as soon as january. while the administration mounts its defense in the senate, house democrats are now debating whether articles of impeachment should highlight a singular event or a pattern of misbehavior perpetrated by the current president.
joining me now, kelly o'donnell and from capitol hill, nbc's leanne caldwell. kelly, let's start with you. do we have some sense of the white house's propensity to participate in the house process given that we're reporting that they are focusing on the senate process now? >> well, all of the expectations at this point, as we await the official word from the white house counsel pat cipollone, who we expect will be, in letter form, reaching out to the committee today. so we're in the window of time it could come at any moment. our expectation is that there won't be any surprises. no change in the strategy from the white house, which has been unwilling to fully participate on the house side. which has been a tactical decision because they claim the democrats running that process have been inherently unfair to the president. even though there have been ways in which democrats on the committees involved have offered and invited the president and his legal team to either send legal representation, request witnesses, and so forth. and the decision from the white
house has been, at each iteration, that they are not participating. and in some ways, a more arm's reach kind of situation where they have blocked things like subpoenas. not made people available to testify and so on. so today, expect a kind of a period at the end of the sentence when it comes to participation in any of the house proceedings. we expect that letter and notification will come sometime this afternoon. no -- no expectation that that won't take place. and all the indications we're getting, and of course we've got to wait to see it officially, is that the president will take a pass on the house and wait for the senate. with the belief that because they sort of, at this point, their assessment is this is on a train with the numbers on the democratic side leading toward an impeachment vote. and then the next process goes to the senate where republicans are in charge. and the form is different. it's an actual trial with the chief justice of the supreme court presiding. the opportunity for live
witnesses. questioning on both sides. those kinds of things. so we expect that that strategy is let the house go by and wait for the senate. ali. >> leanne, let's talk about this idea that democrats are debating about whether to focus in on specific incidents that, you know, the public can get their head around fairly easily and can be litigated. versus a pattern of behavior. what's the push and pull in the house amongst democrats? >> yeah. that's what the democrats are now discussing on which way to go. do they talk about -- do these articles of impeachment encompass just a singular event, like the july 25th phone call that got us to where we are today? or do they encompass a pattern of activity by this president? so talking about ukraine. perhaps, some instances from mueller. just a repeated misbehavior, alleged misbehavior, by this president. so think of it as do they -- do the articles of impeachment include the rotten egg? the most rotten egg? or does it include the entire
dozen of eggs that are expiring. so those are the frames of these articles of impeachment and how they're being debated and discussed among democrats now. we do know that no decisions have been made yet. and these discussions are ongoing. and we also know that the chairman of the judiciary committee, jerry nadler, he met with house speaker nancy pelosi in her office at least twice yesterday. so these negotiations are going to -- and discussions and writing are going to continue and through the weekend. and we could see these articles as early as next week. ali. >> all right. thanks to both of you. nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house. leanne caldwell at congress. white house pushing back against critical evidence released within the house intelligence committee's report on its impeachment investigation. you'll recall the report revealed several calls between rudy giuliani and white house phone numbers. they were listed. including one so-called or said to be associated with the white house office of management and budget. seen labeled on the screen as
omb phone number. these calls suggest contact between giuliani and key officials a week after giuliani met with the ukrainian official and almost a month after trump officially ordered military aid to ukraine be frozen. something that omb, the office of management and budget, was directly involved in. but people familiar with the phone records tell "the new york times" that quote, the phone number is a generic white house switchboard number. making it difficult to tell whose desk it came from. "the times" reports quote while government directories listed as associated with the budget office, they also show the number as associated with offices in other parts of the white house, including the upper floors of the west wing and the national security council. despite the new development, "the times" also underscores this important point. administration officials have not contested the broader assertion that the impeachment report made with the call records that -- the call records that mr. giuliani was in close contact with the white house as he carried out a shadow ukraine
policy. pressing its new president to announce investigations that could benefit mr. trump politically. joining me now is chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker. he is an msnbc political analyst. he is also the co-author of "impeachment and american history." peter, this mirrors different things that have happened in the course of the last few months with respect to the ukraine investigation. there have been -- the white house and the administration and the -- the executive branch have taken issue with particulars here and there. while having difficulty shrugging off the main content of this. and that is that something was going on between the president and the president of ukraine that seemed to be designed to the benefit of donald trump. >> right. exactly. they're picking at the specific facts that they can. they're trying to pull those threads to unravel the larger tapestry. but the larger tapestry remains there. and it is, you know, it reinforces a couple things. one, if the white house really wanted to clarify who was talking on the phone with rudy giuliani, whether it was a -- or
somebody else in the west wing, they could release records of their own. they had, in fact, refused to respond to document requests from the house investigative committee. house intelligence committee. but they don't want to answer those questions. they just want to be able to wait until the intelligence committee gets something wrong or something that might be contested and then take it apart the best they can. that's what, you know, you do when you're on a defense in a -- in a kind of criminal situation. it's interesting to see here in a political situation. the flip side is it also suggests, of course, the limits of how far the house intelligence committee has been able to go. in part, because the white house has refused to cooperate in so many ways. the house intelligence committee's produced a report saying here's what we learned but there are things we just don't know the answer to. they haven't talked to rudy giuliani. they actually haven't even subpoenaed rudy giuliani for any kind of testimony. mick mulvaney is the acting white house chief of staff but also the director still of the office of management and budget
which is why that phone number coming up looks so interesting. the white house told my colleagues maggie that, in fact, mick mulvaney did not speak to rudy giuliani with regard to this. but that's something that we have not been able to see either mick mulvaney or rudy giuliani questioned about. so that's -- that's where they're at at this point. the house intelligence committee is working with incomplete information but they're saying the information they do have is more than enough to justify the articles of impeachment that the judiciary committee is now about to draft. >> i want you to -- i want to read to our viewers from an article you wrote in "the new york times." you say there's no escape for mr. trump. not in foreign cities, nor in the oval office and not in the television he stares at upstairs in the white house each day. his legislative agenda mostly on hold. his foreign policy overshadowed. his re-election on the line. he takes refuge in the campaign rallies he holds and in the morning and evening, line ups on fox news. there's some reality to all this. david fromm wrote the president's advisors can't really help him all that much
because they -- they are getting their information and their analysis and their sense of -- of being able to fight this off from those same places. from these rallies. from fox news. >> yeah. that's exactly right. i mean, you know, he gets a charge out of these rallies. they remind him that he has a lot of people out there who really do support him very strongly, very vigorously. standing by him. that empowers him. that emboldens him to fight back. unlike president clinton during his impeachment 21 years ago when president clinton said, look, i did wrong. it just wasn't impeachable. this president's saying i did nothing wrong period. it's not a question of whether it's impeachable. it's a question of whether he did anything not perfect. he says again and again his contact with the ukrainian president was perfect. and that's putting republicans in an awkward position because they'd like to say this wasn't perfect. let's leave it to the voters. the president won't let them do that. >> peter, good to see you. thank you for joining me. peter baker is the chief white house correspondent for "the new
york times" and political analyst and the author of "impeachment and american history." coming up, phone records released by congress show largely unencrypted and could have been easily surveiled by foreign intelligence. was russia listening? more on the president's pattern of behavior that has raised national security concerns. plus, a 16-year-old guatemalan boy who tried to cross the southern border dies in federal custody. we're going to talk to the editor in chief of the news outlet that obtained the shocking surveillance video. you are watching msnbc. ♪'cause no matter how far away you roam.♪ ♪when you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze.♪ ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ the united states postal service goes the extra mile to bring your holidays home.
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directly contradict what the government says happened when a 16-year-old migrant died at a border patrol facility. he was left in a cell suffering from a 103-degree fever when he collapsed and died. pro publica obtained the video from the cell. documents -- documenting the last hours of the teen's life. but we want to warn you this video is disturbing. and some viewers may find it upsetting. it shows 16-year-old carlos hernandez vasquez lying on a bench in a cell that he shared with another sick boy. a few minutes later, he falls to
the floor. nobody appeared to notice. he's mostly still for the next few minutes. pro-publica reports he then vomits blood and staggers to the toilet. border patrol claims an agent checks on carlos three times during the night but it's not clear if the checks actually happened. there are portions of the surveillance video missing. they also claim they found carlos during a welfare check. but in another part of the video that is too upsetting to show here, it appears carlos's cellmate was the one who discovered him when he woke up four hours after carlos collapsed. carlos was pronounced dead a short time later. a cbp spokesman told propublica while we cannot discussion specific information or details of this investigation, we can tell you the department of homeland security and this agency are looking into all aspects of this case to ensure all procedures were followed. according to propublica, carlos was the sixth underage migrant to die after being detained while entering the united states in less than a year. two of them at least died from
the flu. the editor in chief steve joins me now. steve, thank you for being here. >> pleasure. >> customs and border patrol says they can't give you information. how'd you get the video? >> well, it's an interesting story. the death occurred in a facility in weslaco, text terks, as you mentioned. the police asked could this young man, a 16-year-old, have died in foul play? could his cellmate have killed him? so pursuant to that investigation, they asked border patrol for any materials they would have. the border patrol turned over a limited amount of video which determined in fact he died of the flu. so for that reason, we don't have anywhere near the full tape one would have. we filed a public records request with the police. obtained the material from them. but what they have is missing the four hours roughly when he collapsed to when he was discovered. >> so there could be more information on there. >> possibly so. possibly so. >> what's the implication here? >> the implication here is that the united states government put
a 16-year-old in an icy, cold cell with a blanket suffering from the flu about to die. and it's fairly clear from this video i would argue that nobody checked on him until his cellmate discovered he was dead. i think that's something that there should be some accountability questions about. to this day, as far as we know, no one has been held to account for these events. >> they have said to you they're looking into that. does that mean there's an investigation? or was that sort of perform stuff that government pr gives out? >> it's hard to say. i think when you look at this video, it's fairly clear something has gone badly amiss. what the video shows, the most important thing the video shows, is that when it stops rolling at about 1:40 in the morning. he's in one position. he remains in that position for the next four hours. the video that starts again when he's found at 6:00 in the morning, his feet are in exactly the same position. what that tells you is that if they checked on him, they almost certainly didn't do -- >> didn't do anything about it.
>> well, we would -- apparently, the coroner was told they checked on him by looking through a window. but even if you're looking through a window, you see this kid lying, unmoving for four hours and you don't go in and at least shake him a little bit? i'm not sure by the way as we know from the jeffrey epstein case, in prison sometimes you have people say they do so-called welfare checks but they don't. >> there was another big report this week in "the new york times" on the role mackenzie, the international consulting firm, played in developing and executing the trump administration immigration policies. i want to just quote from that report in "the new york times" of the the money saving recommendations kultdents came up with made some career i.c.e. staff uncomfortable. they proposed cuts in spending on food for migrants, as well as on medical care and supervision of detainees. it goes on to say the team also looked for ways to accelerate the deportation process, provoking worries among some i.c.e. staff members that the recommendations risked short circuiting due process protections for migrants fighting remo
fighti fighting removal from the united states. this sorry is interesting because what a consulting business does to achieve efficiencies is not really the way we should be thinking about government. >> i agree. i mean, you know, someone like mackenzie comes into a situation like i.c.e. you know, they're going to sort of take out a white piece of paper and start dreaming of what you could do. the fact that i.c.e. personnel were saying let's not do this is encouraging. but you do wonder what other government agencies are bringing in what other consultants and what other great ideas that are not being knocked down? >> the privatization of this is something that is sort of a story on the side that not everybody is clear on. this isn't just your tax dollars and government employees at work. there are money saving things at play here, which might be resulting in some of the things we're hearing about. >> yes. i think that's true. although, in the case of the first story we talked about. that was clearly the united states government faced with an influx of migrants and being utterly unprepared. which is a very -- >> we've heard that from the
customs and border patrol. they're the first to admit they weren't in the business of detaining all these people. >> right. as the story points out, there was a dispute among the agencies. the border patrol had projected that there would be more migrants. that there would be a problem. and hhs, which has the facilities to house kids, said no, no. we think the shelters are going to be emptied out. we're changing some procedures. more parents are going to pick up more kids. we're going to be fine. so the government had a sense this was going to happen. didn't prepare very well. >> good to see you, stephen. thank you for joining us. the editor in chief of propublica. we are less than two hours away from the deadline for president trump to decide if he'll have one of his lawyers participate in the impeachment hearings. gearing up for what will be the third impeachment trial in the nation's history. stay with us. you're watching msnbc. re watchi. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month.
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when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck... that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy helps prevent stretching by conditioning fibers, so clothes look newer, longer. downy and it's done. the senate is getting ready for what could be only the third presidential impeachment trial in the nation's history. as house democrats draw up articles of impeachment against president trump. senate republicans and democrats are already holding strategy sessions to prepare for a possible trial early next year. a senior senate democratic aide told nbc news that earlier this week, senate minority leader chuck schumer gave a presentation of mechanics of the trial that included clips of bill clinton's impeachment trial. joining us now to take a closer look is michigan democratic senator gary peters. he came into office after the
clinton impeachment proceedings. senator, good to see you. thank you for joining us. >> it's great to be with you. thank you. >> what is your expectation of how this is going to unfold? from a timing perspective and how it's going to go in the senate? >> it's really difficult to -- to know right now. we -- all we know is that leader mcconnell put out the schedule for next year. left january blank. we'll have to see how it flushes out in january. obviously, when it actually starts in the senate, a lot of that's determined by speaker pelosi. should the articles be voted on in the house, she has to send it over to the senate. and -- and that, she has some discretion in. so we don't know exactly what day it'll start. but then there will be negotiations between leader mcconnell and leader schumer to figure out exactly what schedule that we will follow in the weeks ahead. >> you know, in 1999, democrats and republicans, those rules were actually agreed upon unanimously by democrats and republicans. so they -- the trial went forward in the senate with an agreed-upon set of rules. it feels like 2019, 20 years
later, is such a different place. do you even think we'll get that? do you think we'll get agreed-upon rules? >> i hope so. it's a majority vote so there may be some dissenters among that. but i think we all realize you got to have some rules. people want to know exactly what the schedule's going to be. and in that last impeachment, you know, there were some times where there was not a session so that the attorneys could work through their presentation to the senate. so it'll also be dependent on what counsel needs in order to prepare for the trial. so i think it's fairly flexible. we don't know what to expect. but i certainly hope there will be an agreement. i know my caucus wants to work to get some sort of agreement that we can all get around. >> senator, you are also a member of the arm services committee. we are getting conflicting reports. we -- there were reports in "the wall street journal" that the trump administration is considering sending about 14,000 troops to the middle east. then the defense secretary said that's absolutely false. that's not going to happen.
but clearly, whether -- whether that's true or false, there is enough rumbling about sending troops to the middle east. ostensibly having to do with iran. going on in the white house. give me your thoughts on this. >> well, you're right. in fact, we asked that question yesterday. we had a hearing of the armed services committee and the administration said that those troops are not being sent. but i think the reason you're getting rumblings, the reason you're getting some of this reporting is that we don't really know what the strategy is. we haven't really seen a comprehensive strategy coming out of the trump administration as to how to deal with the increased belligerent activities of the iranians. and when you don't have a strategy, i think people are always speculating and rumors start. and that's a big part of the problem. >> i want to just play because we were trying to establish what the strategy is. so one might get it from the president. let's listen to what he had to say about this yesterday. >> we'll announce whatever we do, we'll announce. but certainly, there might be a threat and if there is a threat, it'll be met very strongly. but we'll be announcing whatever we may be doing. may or may not be doing.
i think the iranian situation could be fixed very quickly and very easily. and it could become really something special, as it was at certain points of time. >> senator, i don't do that to make fun of the president but this is a very, very serious issue. it took ten years to get that deal done. and now, we've been out of that deal. i -- i find it hard to believe that that's the president's strategy what you just heard there. it sounds like somebody who got a pamphlet on iran yesterday. we know this is a very, very serious matter. >> we do. it's incredibly serious matter and when the president pulled out of the agreement, there was no idea as to what you do for the next steps. it's pretty clear that they are rudderless when it comes to a comprehensive strategy to deal with iran and potential nuclear ambitions down the road. and certainly, that clip that you just played shows a president that clearly, in my mind, has no idea what the strategy is. and is trying to -- trying to talk around it. >> i would think at this point in the game, we'd at least
have -- we'd have talking points on how to deal with that. senator, good to see you. thank you, sir. democratic senator gary peters of michigan. log logs of phone calls made by rudy giuliani and others involved in the ukraine scandal have raised new questions about the security of president trump's communications. current and former u.s. officials told "the washington post" that trump routinely spoke with giuliani and others on cell phones that were vulnerable to russian and other foreign intelligence agencies. according to "the washington post," the disclosures provide fresh evidence suggesting that the president continues to defy the security guidance urged by his aides and followed by previous incumbents. a stand that is particularly remarkable given trump's attacks on hilary clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign for her use of a private e-mail account while serving as secretary of state. joining us now to talk about this is gen nevjennifer reuben, washington post" opinion righter. i don't know where this fits into the donald trump not taking russia seriously or not thinking it's a threat or, you know,
having been what some people call a useful idiot for russia. whatever the case is, why would he be okay with the possible interference in his phone calls with rudy giuliani, with whom he seemed to be up to no good? >> well, what the article suggests is that he was doing it intentionally. so they would not have a log of his calls. would not know who he was talking to for what period of time. and that is what they call consciousness of guilt. if he has no problems, if everything he's doing is perfect, why is there a problem if he has a log of those calls? and this, as the article says, it ironic is one way to put it i suppose. that a man who ran a campaign, largely on this issue. that hilary clinton was unfit to serve because she was -- she was susceptible to blackmail. she was being irresponsible with national security. this is the president of the united states who is now doing this. and we know that the russians, most likely, have, if not all at least some of those calls, knows
what's in them. there is a present and future risk of blackmail because goodness knows what he was saying there. as many experts have said, the russians probably know more about those phone conversations than the u.s. senate. and that's a problem. >> in fact, according to the continuing from the article, it says insight into giuliani's discussions with trump could enable moscow to adapt or amplify its propaganda. promoting the baseless claim that ukraine, rather than russia, hacked the democratic national committee in the 2016 u.s. election. the claim is now widely embraced by trump's republican allies. it -- it -- it is -- at this point, you also saw the reporting about the phone calls between giuliani and the white house. that, you know, not everybody's been able to get to the bottom of. but the white house is disputing whether this phone number in the white house actually called rudy giuliani and whose phone number it was. they're not disputing the underlying claim that rudy giuliani has had a lot to do with the white house as it related to this ukraine ordeal. >> that's right. the notion that he somehow a
rogue figure is ridiculous. and as we speak, he is apparently in ukraine talking to people with shady backgrounds still trying to get this dirt, which doesn't exist, on joe biden. and what we also know, because rudy giuliani keeps telling us, is that for these people, quote, corruption is the same as an investigation into joe biden. that is very harmful to the president's position, who has been trying to make the claim, as ridiculous as it might seem, that he is really interested in cleaning up corruption in general in ukraine. and here he is, his private lawyer, still going down the road of finding information from foreigners. something that's illegal. you're not supposed to get something of value from a foreigner. and here he is telling us that, no, those sorts of words, corruption, really just means we're going to go after the vice president. so it's sort of mind blowing at this stage. you sort of don't know how long republicans are going to be able to keep a straight face. >> so what's interesting about the impeachment proceedings, as
democrats discuss whether it's going to be about a or b is that there is this issue of endangering national security. in preventing that aid from going to ukraine. whether or not for political, personal, political gain. the separate issue is that was congressionally-approved aid for a reason that was in america's national security interests. something the president chose, apparently unilaterally or maybe with a group of others, to contradict. >> that's right. and it's going to be an interesting question as to whether they create a separate article out of endangering national security. or whether that is simply part of the story that is being told in an article that would be about obstruction or perhaps about bribery, extortion. so we're going to have to wait to see how the house puts that all together. >> jennifer, good to talk to you. thank you as always. jennifer reuben. opinion writer for "the washington post" and an msnbc political contributor. breaking news, we are getting our fist look at the saudi air force officer accused of shooting and killing three people at naval air station pensacola, florida.
several law enforcement officials tell nbc news this man, mohammed al-shamrani. he is the suspect. he was reportedly attending the aviation school at the air station which trains pilots from around the world. authorities say he shot and killed three people before he, himself, was shot and killed. several other people, including two sheriff's deputies were wounded. the fbi has taken the lead on the investigation. officials say they have not yet ruled out terrorism. but we're still waiting to get more details. coming up, an unusual form. senator elizabeth warren takes aim at pete buttigieg calling him out over his professional resume. you are watching msnbc. ♪ ♪ experience the power of sanctuary
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memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. contender joe biden is getting more ringing endorsements from former secretary of state john kerry while the duo campaigned together in iowa. while on biden's 8-day, 18 county bus tour through the state, kerry told reporters quote in this place, in this time, in this moment, there's no question. i know he can beat donald trump. >> i don't think the fundamentals of our party have changed. there are -- there's a greater anger and frustration, which i
think vice president and i completely understand. because things aren't getting done in washington. i think the democratic party, thank god, is a party that is still in touch with the real needs of average folks in america who are hurting. >> those comments come after biden made headlines for a heated exchange with a voter who falsely claimed that biden sent his son to work in ukraine. biden called the voter in question a quote, damn liar. elizabeth warren is calling out one of her rivals by name. pete buttigieg, the south bend mayor is now leading the field in some iowa polls and senator warren is calling for more transparency about his private fundraisers, his donors, and possible conflicts of interest. >> the mayor should be releasing who's on his finance committee. who are the bundlers who are raising big money for him? who he's given titles to and made promises to. >> and warren, who rarely goes after her top democratic rivals, also called on buttigieg to release details of his called o
release his details about his work at the company mackenzie & company. >> i strongly believe in transparency as to one of the reasons why i have released tax returns from when i got whack from school. and not all of my competitors have been along to do that. and i also believe that mackenzie should release the client list of the clients that i served. >> is that something they can do? >> it's something they can do, yeah. >> nbc news political reporter vaughn hillyard joins me now. what did the mayor tell you? >> reporter: we talked with the mayor yesterday in new hampshire. and i actually just had a conversation with the campaign as well. they said that the counsel for the campaign has reached out to mckenzie. what we are looking at here is the years 2010 to 2007. essentially mckinsey is a global consulting firm that has represented russian companies, saudi arabia, china, even i.c.e.
helps the government, the trump administration look at potentially ways to cut back financing and save on budget including cutting back on medical care and food provided to migrants. so that's where there's been a lot of concern over those three years which boot judge worked as a consultant for mckinsey. who did he represent? that's why i asked the question of the south bend mayor yesterday. >> is there a specific concern that anyone has, or is it, as you say, a general concern that companies like mckinsey work for governments or countries or companies in a cost-cutting way, and we should be able to see the transparency? does somebody have some specific idea that pete buttigieg did something in that period of time that he was working for mckinsey or worked for someone that's going to make him look bad in his campaign? >> the extent to what we know is the "new york times" came out with some new reporting this morning suggesting that he had worked overseas in iraq and afghanistan, particularly around trying to prop up small businesses, medium-sized businesses in afghanistan during
the reconstruction effort there. there is nothing nefarious that has been suggested at this point from pete buttigieg's work. at the same time three years are a significant amount of time. and pete buttigieg, even when he was running for state treasurer back in 2010 in indiana used his time at mckinsey as example of his private experience in corporate america. but i want to, if we could, let you play a little bit of our exchange there yesterday in which i asked buttigieg quite specifically about his work. >> have you gotten a response yet, and 60 days out from the iowa caucus, isn't it worthy for folks to know who you represented over those three years? >> yes. i think it would be good to be released. i keep my word and i signed a legal document when you serve a client that you're going to respect their confidentiality. but i do think it would be a good thing for that to be released. >> is there anybody that you regret representing? >> no. >> did you ever represent a foreign government? >> no.
>> a pharmaceutical company? >> no. and i'm hoping we will get a chance to be able to push all this out. >> there is a question mark about whether his nondisclosure agreement prevents him from not describing his work. to note the buttigieg campaign is now pushing back against warren suggesting that she should turn over her tax records from before 2008. she has only turned over her tax records dating back to 2008 when she entered the administration. they are saying that she needs to open up more about her own legal work in corporate america. >> vaughn hillyard for us. we are going to be right back with a look at the markets and the strong jobs report that came out this morning. you are watching msnbc. out this morning you are watching msnbc we present limu emu & doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. and now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ]
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welcome back. today is the first friday of the month which means the labor department is out with its monthly job report. we saw strong numbers for november. 266. i'm going to get to the market in a second. let me tell you about the actual jobs numbers. 266,000 jobs were added. the unemployment number down to 3.5%. that is a 50-year low. the jobs numbers themselves surpassed expectations by nearly 80,000. all right. so this is kind of crazy. we used to think about 5% unemployment is full employment, 266 is a great number. this is the lowest unemployment rate, as i said in 50 years. here is the problem. there is this other thing called the workforce participation rate. the labor force participation rate. and that is still stuck. why is it stuck if there's so few jobs, so many people
working, why aren't wages higher and why is that still stuck? that is the intractable problem of our time. markets loved this news because it means that people will have money so we're not likely going into a recession. and the fed doesn't have to increase interest rates because inflation's not there. so here's what you get. you get a great gain on the dow 331 points. the standard and poor's 38 points. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm going to see you back here tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern for "the last word." you can watch or listen to this show on sirius xm radio. tune in msnbc.com/now, the msnbc app, and apple tv. and of course you can always find me on social media on twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat, and linkedin. if i can find any other social media places to hang out on i will. thank you for watching. have a great weekend. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace in d.c. starts right now. ♪
hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. we're one hour away from a deadline for the president to decide whether he plans to mount a defense in the house impeachment inquiry. all signs point to a white house more focused on what it believes to be friendlier territory in the u.s. senate with the house impeachment inquiry has rattled this white house and revealed an irrefutable trail of evidence that donald j. trump conditioned military aid for a nation at war on a commitment to investigate the bidens in a debunked conspiracy theory about the 2016 election. and house speaker nancy pelosi suggesting this afternoon that a decision from trump to stay out of the proceedings in the house will speak volumes from "the washington post," quote, anything they have that is exculpatory, this is their moment pelosi told reporters at the capitol. but they have a consciousness of guilt, and that's why they may not show up. we'll see. maybe they will. the