tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC May 11, 2020 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
tracing will work if everybody can come together, and agree that yes, we're going to share some of our information with public health, we're going to try to stay home, so we don't infect other people. if we all agree to that, as a community, and agree that it's important, to save people's lives, i think we can do that here. like they've done it in other places. >> all right. dr. emily gurley, thank you so much for making time tonight. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks, my friend. much appreciated. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. good to have you with us tonight. if you watch this show regularly, one thing you might have noticed is that the president is not here very often. and i don't mean just in terms of not, you know, me not getting interviews with the white house, we don't expect that, but we don't even tend to show a lot of tape of the president, or spend a lot of time engaging like with
his tweets and stuff, because i don't mean this in a mean way, i don't really mean this as a criticism, it's just a fact, an observational fact, that a hallmark of this presidency is that the president frequently says stuff in public that isn't true, and i, therefore, usually don't want to put things he says on tv, because i don't want to help him or anyone spread untrue things, spread made-up stuff, that's being said for nonsense or political purposes. i mean it's a weird, this is an uncomfortable truth about how we produce this show now. it is a weird time to be in the news business, where you really reliably cannot play any tape from the stitting president of the united states, without also book-ending it with caveats and corrections, and clarifications, about all of the things the president just said that are false. so what has evolved over the
past three, whatever years of this presidency is, that we usually just don't bother. we report on what the administration does, and not on what the president says, as a general rule. that said, i am going to make a little bit of an exception to that rule tonight. because i think this is something we should all see. just because i think it is worth knowing. in all seriousness. that the president, right now, in the midst of this crisis, is visibly struggling. there's something wrong or he's just not doing okay, i don't know, but the president apparently just is not able to keep it together right now in his public appearances. and whether or not we were in a time of crisis, and we are, that seems like the sort of thing that we americans should just al be aware of. >> you said many times that the u.s. is doing far better than any other country when it comes to testing.
>> yes. >> why does that matter? why is this a global competition to you, if every day americans are still losing their lives and we're still seeing more cases every day? >> well, they're losing their lives everywhere in the world. and maybe that's a question you should ask china. don't ask me. ask china that question, okay? when you ask them that question, you may get a very unusual answer. yes, behind you, please. >> sir, why are you saying that to me, specifically? >> i'm telling you. i'm not saying it specifically to anybody. i'm saying it to anybody asks a nasty question like that. please, go ahead. >> why does it matter -- >> okay, anybody else? please. go ahead in the back, please. >> i asked two questions. >> no it's okay. >> but you pointed to me. i have two questions, mr. president. >> next, please. >> but you called on me. >> i did. and you didn't respond. and now i'm calling on the young lady in the back. please. >> i just want to let my -- >> ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. appreciate it.
thank you very much. >> what is wrong with the president today? we don't know. something is wrong. whether or not you, you know, like the president or not, whether you enjoy his public affect or not on a regular basis, it is clear that there is something wrong. and that's important whenever the president of the united states is visibly unwound like that. and it is possible that it is just stress. publicly, publicly politically, the white house is pushing the line now that the ep dem sick in the past and the president has been -- the epidemic is in the past and the president has been cheering on the protesters, gathering in big groups an not wearing masks and saying everything should be open, but alongside that public position,
inside that house, in the place where he now lives and works, there's an outbreak now that has put all of the senior leadership of the white house coronavirus task force into varying degrees of quarantine. and apparently put the vice president into isolation at home over the weekend, as reported by bloomberg news. before the white house then belatedly denied that reporting and the vice president came back to the white house today, bravely wearing no mask. the president's personal valet, the vice president's communications director, i mean people in the white house are testing positive now. and the white house, by and large, has not been having people work from home. the white house has regularly been having congregate meetings involving meetings involving the president and the vice president. the white house has not been engaging in much if any social distancing efforts in terms of the way people are working. almost no one has been wearing masks inside the white house as a workplace. and so maybe the president is just stressed out at the virus
he has been playing down, this thing he is so invested politically, and telling americans that they shouldn't worry about contracting it anymore, it's inside his house now. cnn reporting that a person who spoke with the president this weekend said that president trump, quote, voiced frustration that two white house staffers tested positive, and he has asked why his valets weren't ordered to wear masks before this week. the president has told people reportedly that he does not want to be near anyone who hasn't been tested, and has bristled when coming into contact with some people at the white house. imagine being terrified and furious about the virus closing in on you, in your home, while publicly, every day, you're railing about how great you've done at keeping everybody safe from this virus and how nobody should have to worry about getting it anymore and everything should open back up so we'll all come back into contact with innumerable people who may or may not have it, who
may or may not have been tested. i mean there is a very divorced duality there, and it feels like the president is not handling this duality very well. his seams are very much showing. and you know, we are over 1.3 million cases in the united states now, over 80,000 americans have died, those astronomical numbers which of course are relentlessly growing every day, they have just sort of slid off the president, without even once appearing to perturb him but he does appear perturbed now, he does appear unsettled, he did unceremoniously abort a white house news conference today, in the middle of being unable to handle questions from female reporters, he just walked away and nobody knew what was going on. and part of it may be that he is just confused. at the white house on friday, answering questions about people
starting to test positive inside the white house, the president appeared legitimately baffled that a person could test negative and then on a subsequent day, that person could test positive. he said that he doesn't understand how the vice president's communications director could have previously been negative, and now she's positive. i mean how does that even work? i mean that alone is worrying for us as a country, not just because it indicates that there is something simple about the crisis that we're that the president doesn't understand. i think we're used to that dynamic by now. what is worrying is the president may very well decide that if testing people in the white house is what has turned up this bad news, that there are people in the white house who have the virus, i mean the worry is that the president will now decide that testing is bad and it shouldn't be done, since it was testing that produced this bad news for him. and he doesn't like bad news. i mean i'm not joking. i wish i were. but the president's mind really
does appear to work in spirals like this. and so i hope someone is strategizing in the white house about how to keep the president from concluding that testing is bad. now that people in the white house are getting what the president is literally calling bad test results, meaning they are testing positive. he doesn't like bad test results. so he doesn't like testing, and so what's going to happen to national access to testing which is already atrocious. sort of, part of me, can't believe that we have to think about things in these terms but part of me has also watched this president work for the three-plus years and understands that's how he thinks. it is also possible that the president is stressed about what is going to happen tomorrow in washington. and i know it's easy to lose track of anything that's not directly about the epidemic right now, but the united states supreme court tomorrow is about to hear arguments that are about something this president cares about very, very, very much, something he has worked very hard to keep secret about
himself. and that something maybe about to be pried loose, depending on how these historic arguments go tomorrow at the united states supreme court. i mean for perspective in about what is about to happen at the supreme court, the last time a president faced a case like this, it was a case called u.s. versus nixon and people came from all over the country and literally camped out to try to get into the court to see it that time. >> by daybreak, 250 people were already waiting to get into the court. they had spent the night there. one woman waited two days. some would get to stay in the courtroom for only five minutes. but all agreed it was worth it to be present at a moment in history. >> it's already worth. it i met a lot of nice people. and i expect to hear a good argument. >> how much sleep did you get? >> well, about two hours of sleep in the past two days. but the excitement has been really so tremendous, that i
haven't been that tired. >> to experience it, a legal experience, it's an experience everybody can share and understand, because everybody's lives are going to be touched by it. >> there were 100 seats for spectators. 25 seats went to congressmen. lawyers took part in a rot lottr seats a rare display outside the white house, as the white house special prosecutor arrived, cheers and applause for leon jaworski. he dominated outside and the same player dominated inside and died the court's decision on what the president would get would only be considered advisory. for his part joworski refuted that saying it is up to the court and not the president to decide what the law. is if the president is wrong said jaworski who is to tell him
so. one of the judges says if the president is wrong, the court will tell him so. justice marshal, the president had no effort to comply with the subpoena, he ignored it, are you submitting this case to the court for our decision. we want your guidance and judgment, but it is up to the president to protect his office. the president is not above the law. but he is different. he can only be impeached, the court should not be drawn into it. >> the white house has asked today, if president nixon will obey the supreme court if the court orders him to release the 64 white house tapes and the white house refused to answer that question. >> the white house refused to answer that question. so that was also july 8th, 1974, the last time a case like this went to the supreme court. that was the supreme court considering whether the then president, president nixon, had to comply with the subpoena and hand over a bunch of white house tapes that had been subpoenaed. the nixon white house raised the specter in court that even if the court told president nixon he did have to obey the subpoena, the nixon white house
said they might not obey the court. they were just there to get the court's advice but they weren't even sure they considered a supreme court ruling to be binding. 16 days later, 16 days after they heard the argument, the court very quickly ruled in that case. they ruled unanimously that president nixon did have to obey the subpoena. he did have to hand over those white house tapes. and frankly, the country was so riveted by this at the time, that everybody was still kind of camped out on the courthouse steps to hear the ruling when it came down. >> we interrupt our regular program schedule to bring you this nbc news special report. here from the united states supreme court in washington, is nbc news correspondent, douglas kiuker. >> good morning, the supreme court has just ruled on the tape controversy and we have that ruling now. >> it is the unanimous decision, doug, 8-0, justice rehnquist took no part in the decision, ordering the president of the united states, to turn over the
tapes. >> 8-0 unanimous opinion that president nixon must obey the subpoenas issued by special water gate prosecutor jaworski and turn over the 64 white house tapes to mr. jaworski. we don't know yet if the president will obey that order. >> again, the supreme court has just ruled unanimously, that president i innen must tu president, president nixon must turn over 64 water gate tapes to the special prosecutor. that decision moments ago. nbc news at the supreme court. >> people gathered around cheering the news, the white house ruling. and despite all of the nixon administration's bravado in court, despite his lawyer james saint claire claiming in court that maybe nixon wouldn't comply with the supreme court's ruling, the nixon white house did pledge to comply with the court order and they did. mostly by then, the country was
just agog, they wanted to hear what was on the tapes but in terms of the constitutional issue at the time, the nation was just agog that nixon even tried to get away with it, that nixon even tried to get away with putting himself above the law like that, by saying that subpoenas didn't apply to him, they couldn't be enforced, and maybe he wouldn't even listen to the supreme court. a lot of what was going on the last time the supreme court heard a case this big like the one they're about to hear tomorrow, the feeling of the country was it was astonishing that nixon had even tried it. >> the president elected in history's biggest landslide, 19 months after his inaugural address, threatened with impeachment, and removal from office. his vice president already gone. in disgrace. and now, hearing from the supreme court, that a president, any president, must obey the law, and the courts. only in recent times, since the presidency began taking on the trappings and arrogance of the
roman emperors could this question have been seriously considered. the country has come a long way since thomas jefferson walked around washington, eating in a boarding house, waiting his turn, to the time when one of his successors, is officially informed by the highest court that he is not above the law. if any president ever were, that would be the end of it. he could be, or soon become, a dictator. even in times as turbulent as ours, the remarkable thing is not how the court answered the question, the remarkable thing is that the question was ever asked. >> the remarkable thing is that the question was ever asked. well, it was. in 1974. when president richard nixon proclaimed himself immune from the legal constraints that bind all other u.s. citizens, so i don't need to respond to a subpoena, i'm not bound by the legal process. the supreme court told him in response, unanimously, that that was bogus, and he was not above
the law. that unanimous ruling at the united states supreme court in 1974 led to the nixon white house tapes being handed over, what they revealed gave lie to the whole watergate coverup, the president was gone, resigned from office 16 days after that supreme court ruling came down. well, the successor case to that one is tomorrow at the united states supreme court. and it's happening at an insane time, right? no, we can't go to the supreme court this time, we can't even camp out to be able to watch those arguments and that's a drag, but unusually, because of the crisis that we're in, we can all listen in, live, to tomorrow's arguments. because the circumstances of the epidemic mean that these cases are now not conducted at the supreme court building, they are conducted telephonically, and so there is public access to the arguments in realtime, which is going to make tomorrow an amazing day. i mean this is the case tomorrow, where president trump is arguing that his financial records, his taxes, his bank records, can't be handed over in
response to subpoenas because the president says he has absolute immunity from the law. absolute immunity from having to comply with any kind of oversight. including having to respond to lawful subpoenas. this is the case, you may remember, where the president's lawyer literally said in open court, that the president really could not be charged with murder, he couldn't even be arrested, he couldn't even be stopped from continuing to shoot if he really did stand in the middle of fifth avenue and just start shooting people. >> what's your view on the fifth avenue example? >> local authorities couldn't investigate, they couldn't do anything about it? >> i think once a president is removed from office, the local authority, it isn't a permanent immunity. >> i'm talking about while in office. >> no -- >> nothing could be done. that's your position? >> that is correct. >> that is correct. if the president were standing
in the middle of fifth avenue shooting people, it is the position of this president, as taken by his lawyer, in open court, in federal court, that nothing could be done. that authorities could not only not charge him, they could not investigate him, they could not arrest him, they could not stop him, if he went on a shooting spree in the middle of fifth avenue in manhattan. that is the argument from president trump, that the supreme court will take up tomorrow. so, yes, maybe the president is unusually stressed. we' we'ring going to talk with a "new york times" reporter about what may be in these records that the president has fought so hard to keep from handing over. he will be with us in a moment here tonight. these are dystopian times. these are days when the news is so hard to believe every day. what a time to be testing what david brinkley described as the wb would-be dictatorial powers of a president, especially one who has already in this case
been impeached. in places where the president has urged to open up, and cheer their opening up, places like in georgia, we are now seeing a hospitalization crush, from coronavirus cases, in the northeastern part of that state, in hall county, as georgia reopens, with the encouragement of the president. in iowa, where the white house brought the iowa governor to washington, to praise her last week, for opening up her state, and boy how great has that been going, the two hospitals in sioux city hospital are reportedly becoming overwhelmed, they are rapidly building out extra icu capacity as fast as they can, and that iowa governor is now in isolation, after being exposed to vice president pence, and his staff, both at the white house, and when the vice president then flew out to iowa, and took meetings with the iowa governor and her staff, without masks, without gloves, and even after the vice president had just learned that his press person had tested positive, his press person with whom he had been working closely. now the iowa governor and her health chief are in quarantine,
because of their exposure to the vice president and his staff. today, that iowa governor held her daily coronavirus press briefing, by video conference, for the first time, rather than meeting reporters live face to face, because now, she's got to be isolated, too. because of her white house contacts. the white house has yet to come up with a plausible explanation for why one of the vice president's staffers appears to have told grocery and meat packing executives that they needed to take off the masks they were already wearing, before they themselves met with the vice president on that trip to iowa, late last week. again, remember, he didn't even land in iowa, until right after he learned one of his closest aides had tested positive, and his staff then told other people meeting with him to take off their masks. the vice president's staffer just tested positive, was of course with the president just the day before the iowa trip when the vice president and his communications director, the two of them, both with no gloves, both with no masks, they did a
photo op at a nursing home in virginia where the vice president was shown to be dropping off ppe supplies to that nursing home. even though neither he nor his press person took the precautions you're supposed to take to keep yourself from being a coronavirus vector into a nursing home. she's there on the right not wearing a mask. all of the reporters are wearing masks. the crew is wearing masks. she's not. she tested positive the next day. she is at a nursing home with the vice president who then conveyed into the nursing home, also not wearing glove, also not wearing a mask, after working closely with his press person, who is positive. i mean this is a, this is a weird time. it's a stressful time. tomorrow is going to be an historic day in terms of the law and the presidency. but it's a terrible time to have a terrible government. especially with the president who is now melting down visibly out of control.
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pennsylvania national guard, has been called in. >> a welcome site. first thing monday morning. >> members of the pennsylvania national guard rolling up to the rehabilitation and wemness center. channel 1 cameras there as members of the national guard unloaded equipment and went in wearing masks and gloves. >> interesting measure of our particular national misery right now. that some part of the u.s. military, the army corps, or global national guard, or something, rolling up to a nursing home, comes as welcome relief at this point. comes as good news. but 71 americans have been killed already, by coronavirus at that one beaver county pennsylvania nursing home. 71 dead in that one facility. it is part of a horrifying destruction inside congregate living facilities around the country and that story in beaver
county brought the national guard out, it is kind of the story everywhere. in massachusetts, the outbreak at the holyoke soldiers home in western mass started making news at the end of march, and today we learned the death toll at that home has reached 88. 88 veterans have died there. in new jersey, 72 americans are now reported dead at the state-run veterans home in program paramus. in minnesota, 591 deaths reported as of today in that state, 472 of the 592 of them were long-term care facility deaths. 80% of the deaths in minnesota from this epidemic so far have been nursing homes and long-term care. nationwide, "the new york times" reports now that roughly a third of all deaths in the united states from coronavirus are connected to a nursing home. either somebody living there, or somebody working there. that's like 25,000 deaths plus. and of course, that has all happened in only about two months. as has been typical in this
epidemic, some of the first and most meaningful action to help the nursing homes has come from state governments that are trying to innovate their way to a solution. new york governor andrew cuomo announced this weekend that nursing homes in new york will now be required by the state, to test their staff, twice a week. and if they don't do it, that nursing home will lose its license to operate in new york state. that might work. that might help. at the federal level though, the response to roughly 25,000 americans dieing in nursing homes in a matter of weeks, the federal response has been mostly undetectable at this point. the part of the trump administration that oversees nursing homes is called the u.s. centers for medicare and medicaid. cms is they're believation. they announced over two weeks ago that they would start producing public federal data on coronavirus data in nursing homes facility by facility nationwide and we keep contacting cms about when this is happening since they
announced it to great fanfare, they announced it is coming soon, coming soon, it has been week, and we have yet to see that data. what's the rush? "the wall street journal" reported today that cms does seem to be working on guidelines to open nursing homes back up. to get them back open, to visitors. which sounds exactly backwards from what medical experts think should happen at this point but might be the sort of thing you think you ought to be thinking about if all you do is list tonight ambient noise from fox news and the white house with what we're supposed to do with the epidemic. nursing home deaths showing no signs of slowing whatsoever. opening them back up is not the priority. and that's apparently what they're working on. today, though, this afternoon, we got from the white house a sign of possible actual forward movement for the first time. the associated press reporting that in a video conference call
with governors, the vice president surprised everybody, by saying that the administration is now recommending that everyone in nursing homes get tested. all residents and staff. and it was not just him saying it. dr. deborah birx chimed in as well. we really believe that all one million nursing home residents need to be tested within the next two weekz as well as a staff. that is according to a recording of the call obtained by the associated press. that seems good. it seems months late but it seems good. that said, no progress can be allowed to proceed in a straight line anymore so the president added tonight, when he was giving his meltdown press conference which he punctuated by abruptly turning on his heel and walking away in the questioning, he did sworort of off the cuff when asked about nursing home staff being tested, he was asked about that, sure,
maybe he would consider making that recommendation mandatory. he literally said to the reporter who asked him about this, quote, i will mandate it if you like. so maybe he's taking requests. an associated press reporter asked him whether that recommendation should be a mandate to nursing home, the president said i'll make it mandatory if you like. can other people express their likes in this? would that make the difference? is that how you make the decision? given that we know where the virus is, to a certain extent, i mean we know where it incubates and multiplies, we know that the people most at risk of getting this virus, and dying from it are americans in nursing homes. testing in nursing homes seems like a manifestly good idea even if it is two months and 25,000 deaths later. is it too late to make a difference now? does mandating that testing sound like a good idea other than just to me?
would what would be needed in order for nursing homes to pull this order and have the most beneficial effect. joining us now is somebody who knows. dr. michael wasserman, the president of the california association of long-term medicine and the medical director of eisenberg village at the los angeles jewish home. dr. wasserman, it's good to have you with us tonight. thank you so much for coming back. >> thank you so much, rachel. and thank you for calling attention to what is a really important issue. >> one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you about it is because you had experience with this at the local level. the l.a. health director, the los angeles health director made a similar recommendation in los angeles county a couple of weeks ago that seems to be the same kind of recommendation that president pence made to governors across the country today. i wanted to ask you if if there is anything we should know about how this has played out in los angeles that should inform what we should expect in the country. >> absolutely. it started to happen, but we haven't tested every nursing home in los angeles county, in
the last two and a half weeks, since that was supposed to start happening. and so let me be completely unequivocal about this. if testing is available, not testing nursing home staff, and residents, is both medically unsound, and unethical. it is critical, and we need to actually start with the staff, because as you mentioned, they're the vector, they're the ones bringing the virus into facilities, and they're also the ones dying from it when it goes unfettered, in one of these facilities. >> it strikes me as notable that the white house surprised everybody with this advice today, that this was not something they had signaled was coming, it was not something they appeared to have taken wide advice on, they did announce the
formation of a long-term care sort of task force, but they don't even plan to meet for the first time until the end of this month, maybe. it appears that this was just sort of sprung on the governors today. and then the president verbally entertained the prospect that it might be a mandate for nursing homes at some point. but appeared to literally just be entertaining that idea for the first time, because a reporter asked him about it. it makes me worry that there isn't anything behind this recommendation that is going to actually facilitate nursing homes getting the testing done. >> and i couldn't agree more. this is what has been bothering a lot of us in the field of geriatrics and long-term care medicine for over six weeks. it's one thing to say to nursing homes, we want you to test. it's another thing to actually have it happen. in fact, i had stories from many of my colleagues around the country, of facilities both nursing homes and assisted
living facilities, either resisting or avoiding testing. and that is absolutely unacceptable. there is, the federal government, the state, and local governments, they need to be 110% behind testing in both nursing homes and assisted living facilities, and there should be no equivocation on this issue. and it needs to happen literally yesterday. >> it strikes me that the reason that a lot of homes are resisting testing, to the extent that they are, because they're afraid of what will happen when they inevitably get very high test results. i mean if there was a clear expectation that if you turn out, if you test, and you have to publicly disclose your results, it turns out you got a lost positive tests, that means you're going to get help. that might reverse the resistance, on the part of some homes, to both do the testing and to publicly disclose that information. it seems like we need a universal citation that this information must be collected
and must be disclosed and it will not result in punishment, it will result in assistance. >> you know, on a certain level, i understand that facilities are worried that if someone finds out that there is an outbreak, they might have some media coverage or whatever, but keep in mind, that this is a virus, when it gets into a nursing home or an assisted living facility, can have a 30 to 40% mortality rate. i cannot comprehend an ethical response to choosing not to test out of fear that someone will find out that you have positive staff or positive residents. to me, if anyone has a loved one in a nursing home or assisted living facility and they have the capability of testing, you should be literally screaming at the top of your lungs, that they need to start by testing their staff, and then by testing the residents. in that order.
>> dr. michael wasserman, president of california association of long-term care medicine, dr. wasserman, thanks more helping us understand this. i think this is an important inflection point. thanks for being here tonight. >> thank you so much, rachel. much more to come here tonight. stay with us. did you know that feeling sluggish or weighed down could be signs that your digestive system isn't working at its best? taking metamucil every day can help. metamucil supports your daily digestive health using a special plant-based fiber called psyllium. psyllium works by forming a gel in your digestive system to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. metamucil's gelling action also helps to lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so, start feeling lighter and more energetic... by taking metamucil every day. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights
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mark your calendar. set that annoying ringy dingy thing on your phone that you can never forget how to turn off in time before it is embarrassing. tomorrow, 10:00 a.m. eastern, is when oral arguments start at the supreme court in the case of about whether the president has to comply with subpoenas in u.s. v nixon part two case. 10:00 a.m. eastern is also when all of the administration's coronavirus response pubas will be testifying before the senate, entitled covid-19, safely getting back to work, and back to school. the white house is letting those
top coronavirus response officials testify before the senate because the senate is led by republicans but blocking testifying before the house, because as was put it, the house is a quote bunch of trump haters so they can't have the officials testify before them. the information we will get from the task force all-stars yesterday, before the senate, not the house, but it will be a strange hearing, now that three of the four witnesses, dr. tony fauci, robert redfield, the cdc director, the fda commissioner, all three of them are under self quarantine, after being exposed to the coronavirus, presumably at the white house. because they had not been doing anything to protect themselves at the white house. so they will be testifying by video. also, in self-quarantine is the chair of that senate committee that is going to be holding the hearing, tennessee republican senator lamar alexander, one of his staffers tested positive so
senator alexander will be chairing the meeting remotely while most of the witnesses are also appearing remotely. lamar alexander will be chairing the hearing from his home in tennessee. apparently, he spent the day practicing, and now quote with so many key players, including himself, stuck at home, mr. alexander announced over the weekend that all of the witnesses, including admiral giroir who coordinates the testing effort will also testify via video. three out of four will be in quarantine and the fourth, let's put him in a box because everyone else will do that so let's testify from home and gavel in from home. so there will be a little bit of comic relief in terms of seeing a senate zoom meeting but this is the first time these folks at the highest levels of the nation's disastrous coronavirus response are going to be subject to questioning without the president hovering over them, breathing into their ear, definitely not six feet away. so that is going to be worth seeing tomorrow. and it is a safe bet it is going
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just off the top of my head, i can tell you the president sued new york state, trying to keep his tax returns and his financial records secret. he sued the state of california, trying to do the same thing. he sued the ways and means committee and the house trying to do the same thing, he sued the chair of the oversight committee trying to do the same thing, he sued his own bank trying to do the same thing, he sued a whole other bank, all efforts to keep his tax returns, his financial records, his banking records, secret. at various legal and investigative bodies saw to obtain those records.
the president has lost in court every step of the way with all of those lawsuits but tomorrow there will be a supreme court case on whether the president's records have to be handed over in response to lawful subpoenas. this is the case in which the president says he is the lawful president said he's immune from legal scrutiny and therefore nobody can respond to any subpoena that has to do with him. that historic case tomorrow is something we'll be able to listen into live. it is the president's last chance to stop this material coming out before the 2020 election, if ever. he really has been desperate to stop this material from coming out. he has a whole legal team that is separate and apart from the lawyers that represent him on other things that just works full time on trying to keep his finances and his taxes secret. and this case tomorrow involves huge constitutional questions of course but it also means we my finally get to see the financial information the president had been fighting to keep secret for years. here to talk about a very specific piece of it is david,
"new york times" business investigations editor and the author of "dark towers." it's been a long time. thanks for making time tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> so remind all of us about the part of this case tomorrow that's going to the supreme court that has to do with deutsche bank and that information if it in fact, ever did get hand oefrd to ed over t investigators. >> deutsche bank is the only financial institution willing to do business with donald trump and his family. the bank made over $2 billion in loans to trump and his companies. it currently is owed about more than $300 million by trump.
over the course of decades, they collected detailed information, not as finances but everything, all the materials he used to open bank accounts or to get loans or to convince deutsche bank loan officers he could pay it back. there are detailed records about his personal finances, a detailed map how his businesses interact and assets and where they are making money and where money is going and as there would be in any bank, there are detailed records that show where he moves his money, if money comes in in big numbers or goes out in big numbers, deutsche bank knows about that. the subpoena issued last year by the congressional committees seek that information that du deutsche bank is sitting on with transaction data anything over $10,000 for example and it's
looking for this in relation to the trump organization and family members and really all sorts of other companies he's affiliated with, as well. >> david, you've reported in the times and in your book that there were essentially people who were assigned within deutsche bank to look for signs of money laundering and you reported anti money laundering experts inside deutsche bank repeatedly raised red flags about entities controlled by president trump and his son-in-law and they recommended the bank should file suspicious activity reports with the government flagging potential money laundering by the president but those concerns were ignored by bank executives, by higher ups. obviously, that's potentially super explosive material. could you would you expect the subpoenaed mattelier fought over in court
would contain those deliberations related to the president? >> 100%. that's one of the things that stopped subpoenas that. there is a particular paragraph that have been made public that specifically asks for any information related to suspicious activity reports that the bank either sought to -- the bank either filed or had draft form to file. these are records that the bank really has not said anything about where we relied on the word of one very brave whistle blower that went public to discuss concerns and punished for that. there is a very good chance that were the supreme court to shoot down the trump legal argument very detail information would come out about transactions that these anti money laundering officers found and what the nature of them was, who the money was going to, why, why they were suspicious and importantly, why deutsche bank officials up the food chain
decided to over rule their lower level employees and say we are not going to report this to the government, which is really an extraordinary set of circumstances and i think this court case presents one final chance to hear the story. >> david, this is not a subpoena to the president that he is defying. i think if that was the case, we know how that would come out even if he was told to obey the subpoena, he wouldn't. he'd defy the court. we'd have a constitutional crisis. on this case on the deutsche bank stuff this is a subpoena to deutsche bank. if the court rules deutsche bank should hand over this material, do you feel confident they would? >> it's dangerous to make predictions like that and i've been burned in the past by thinking i know how things will work out and been wrong. in this case, my reporting and talking to people inside deutsche bank indicates strongly they will compile with this. i think they've had more than a year now to assemble the materials that are sought in these subpoenas that.
my understanding is they are more or less ready to do so at the push of a button were the supreme court to give them the all clear to do so. sometime over the summer, deutsche bank would be delivering troves of information about records and internal records about the trump relationship to trump's bitter enemies in congress. >> david enrich, business investigations editor. the author of "dark towers, deutsche bank and the epic trail of destruction." i read every word and loved it. thank you for being here. appreciate it. >> thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back, stay with us. -- confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. you get way more than free shipping. you get thousands when you shop for your home at wayfair of items you need to your door fast
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the last thing to watch tomorrow, you might remember long lines, wisconsin voters and waiting three hours in line just to be able to cast ballots. yes, it was ridiculous. wisconsin said 70 people in person worked at the polls were tested for coronavirus after that election. despite that tomorrow. wisconsin is doing it again. another in person election for the congressional seat vacated by sean duffy last year. national guard troops will be on hand working at polling sites sending in hand sanitizer and gloves and masks after the district where this election is happening
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