tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC July 15, 2020 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
dysfunctional family. how my family created the world's most dangerous man, meaning her uncle, the president of the united states. after the judge ruled that mary trump can talk about her book and, therefore, her fear that her uncle might somehow become a two term president, mary trump started tweeting. quote, happy infrastructure week. followed by one for bastille day. and today a picture of a can of black beans, most definitely a non-goya can. her book is out and she is allowed to talk and tomorrow night she will do just that right here on this show with rachel maddow. you will not want to miss that conversation. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow with rachel. now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening. we will all of course be watching rachel's interview with mary trump tomorrow night.
can't wait. and speaking of infrastructure week, donald trump went to georgia today to give what was billed as an infrastructure speech which, of course, was all about joe biden and hating the press and all sorts of things. stacey abrams was actually waiting for donald trump to arrive in her state, and she warned voters about what donald trump was going to say today before he arrived. stacey abrams is going to join us later in the hour. and we are going to show a lot of what mary trump has already had to say in her interview with george stef nop lis. mary trump has an awful lot to say. and rachel tomorrow night i'm sure will get at most of it. >> and i'll be watching you tonight, lawrence. have a good evening and a good show. >> thank you. in the clearest possible sign that donald trump knows he is losing his re-election
campaign, donald trump tonight fired his campaign manager who had never run a political campaign of any kind in his life before. it is yet another trump firing that proves donald trump was lying when he told his voters four years ago that he hire it is best people. his campaign manager was fired by chris cristie when christy was the governor of new jersey and bill was implicated in the scandal that effectively ended chris cristie's political career, the closing of lanes to punish a local new jersey mayor who was judged to be not loyal enough to chris cristie. so tonight we have the full accounting of just how much of a disaster donald trump's first campaign rally during the coronavirus pandemic actually was. a campaign manager who produced that rally in tulsa, oklahoma is
now fired, and the governor of oklahoma who welcomed that super spreading rally to his state and attended it to cheer on donald trump now has coronavirus. and oklahoma is suffering a surge in coronavirus cases. donald trump's lawyers, who lost very badly in the united states supreme court last week, told a federal judge in new york city today that they plan to try a new set of arguments to prevent the manhattan district attorney from obtaining trump's tax returns. donald trump and his lawyers are going to lose once again with federal judge who found their original argument about blocking the subpoena, quote, repugnant to the nation's governmental structure and constitutional values. joyce vance will join us at the end of this hour to consider just how much more time donald trump can delay in the courts before he is ultimately ordered to hand over his tax returns to the manhattan district attorney
who, remember, wants those tax returns in a criminal investigation that could lead to donald trump being the first president in history to face criminal prosecution after leaving office, if those tax returns contain any evidence of criminal conduct by donald trump. the white house press secretary reissued donald trump's now five-year-old lie, that he has not released his tax returns like all presidential candidates because his tax returns are under audit. the press secretary said last week, quote, when they're no longer under audit he will release them. i said that was a lie the first time donald trump said it five years ago. first of all, there was no proof that he was being audited five years ago. and, secondly, being audited would not prevent the release of tax returns. every president since richard nixon has released his tax
returns and every one of those president's tax returns was actually under official irs audit when they were released because the president and vice president's tax returns are the only tax returns of any individuals that are automatically audited by the irs every year according to irs rules. or at least they used to be. and that's why the chairman of the house ways and means committee, richard neal, demanded to see donald trump's tax returns. chairman neal wants to check if the irs is still following that standard procedure of auditing the president's tax returns. donald trump is fighting that subpoena in court in a separate case, the ways and means committee subpoena. the full story of donald trump can never be told without access to donald trump's tax returns and banking records. the full story of donald trump
can never be told without a completion collection of his financial records because with donald trump it's all about the money, as it is with every trump. according to donald trump's niece, mary trump. >> it was all about the money, wasn't it? >> i'm a trump. you know? everything is about money in this family. but i'm also different from them. and for me, what i understood and one of the reasons it was so devastating was that money stood in for everything else. it was literally the only currency the family trafficked it. >> the former editor of new york magazine has been covering donald trump with flawlessly consistent disapproval since the 1980s when carter and he were editing spy magazine where they described donald trump
repeatedly as a short fingered vulg vulgarian. he praises mary trump's writing and powers of observation and calls her back the most convincingly empathetic chronicle of donald trump i'd ever read. mary trump brings to her subject the empathy of a trained clinical psychologist, which she is, describing someone who suffered permanent psychological damage in childhood. that's why her empathetic description of donald trump relies so heavily on a description of donald trump's father, who was mary trump's grandfather. >> it all begins with your grandfather. >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. >> you say he's a sociopath. >> yes. >> what do you mean by that? >> he had no empathy. he was incredibly driven in a
way that turned other people, including his children, his wife, into pawns to be used to his own ends. if somebody could be of service to him, then he would use them. if they couldn't be, he excised them. >> the now fired trump campaign manager discovered tonight what it feels like to be excised from his job by donald trump. mary trump blames donald trump's father for the disgraceful behavior that we see from donald trump every day. >> one of the unforgivable things my grandfather did to donald was he severely restricted the range of human emotion that was accessible to him, which makes it -- >> what does that mean? >> it means that certain
feelings were not allowed. >> like? >> sadness. the impulse to be kind, the impulse to be generous. >> mary trump feels that the dysfunctional trump family dynamic has now infected the nation. >> i feel as i write in the book, that there are so many parallels between the circumstances in which my family operated and in which this country is now operating. i saw firsthand what focussing on the wrong things, elevating the wrong people can do, the collateral damage that can be created by allowing somebody to live their lives without accountability. sgln donald trump is now facing the ultimate accountability.
it is going very, very badly for donald trump. a new poll has joe biden now with an 11 point lead over donald trump nationally. 51-40. and american voters overwhelmingly agree with joe biden about wearing masks. 70% of voters say they always wear masks when shopping and being around others when outside the home. donald trump has made the choice to run not just against joe biden but to also run against dr. anthony fauci. but he lives in fear of fauci's polling popularity. so he's having others attack dr. fauci for him. dr. fauci discussed the white house attacks against him in an interview with the atlantic. >> the government you are trying to advice is actively trying to discredit you. how do you work like that? >> well, that is a bit bizarre,
i have to tell you. i think if i sit here and shrug my shoulders and say, that's life in the fast lane, it doesn't do anything but reflect poorly on them. and i don't think that that was their intention. i don't know. i cannot figure out in my wildest dreams why they would want to do that. but, i mean, i think they realize now that that was not a prudent thing to do because it's only reflecting negatively on them. >> the atlantic conducted a series of interviews with dr. fauci this week. some of it does not appear on video. the printed portion contains all of the passages of the interviews. dr. fauci goes on to say, ultimately it hurts the president to do that. when the staff lets out something like that and the entire scientific and press community push back on it, it ultimately hurts the president. dr. fauci says that he hasn't spoke with donald trump in a long time, but he did speak to the white house chief of staff about the attacks on him.
white house chief of staff did not apologize for those attacks on dr. fauci. dr. fauci answered the question we have all been wondering about in the printed version of the interview, dr. fauci was asked, have you thought about resigning. dr. fauci said, no, i think the problem is too important for me to get into those kinds of thoughts and discussions. i just want to do my job. i'm really good at it. i think i can contribute and i'm going to keep doing it. fauci is 79 years old. he has provided invaluable service to this country for decades. we are very lucky that he is going to keep doing that as long as he possibly can. and so the last question he was asked in this interview is, in some ways, the most important. >> how are you doing? how are you coping? >> you know, adam, i'm doing okay.
i'm doing fine. i say the fumes are really thick, so it's enough to keep me going. i wish we didn't have a lot of those distractions, which i think are noise that get in the way. but i put that aside, try not to let it bother me and just move ahead. >> leading off our discussion tonight are democratic congressman eric swalwell. also with us eugene robinson, pulitzer prize winning columnist. and congressman swal we, i want your reaction first of all to anthony fauci's position in this administration where he's being attacked by members of the administration. but donald trump himself of course fearing dr. fauci's popularity is afraid to say anything specifically negative about dr. fauci. but what do you make of the situation and how it affects the government's ability to deal
with this pandemic when the white house is attacking one of the leaders of fighting this pandemic? >> good evening, lawrence. and hello, eugene. donald trump is a coward. this falls right in line with what we saw him do with, you know, bob mueller. over and over, you know, he would publically and privately undermine mueller. he would not actually fire him because he knew the public wanted mueller to continue his investigation. donald trump knows that the public overwhelmingly wants to listen to dr. fauci, but because donald trump knows that dr. fauci's advice is contrary to what he is telling people, he looks at this just as mary trump describes. how does this affect me? he doesn't think about how it affecting everyone else. so right now the president finds himself in the unusual position of being for confederate monuments and against masks. that is wildly out wide where
most americans are. >> gene robinson, it is now as if mary trump is narrating the news. she's doing an accompaniment to the news. she tells us about how donald trump's father would just get rid of people when they weren't helping him, and then donald trump gets rid of his campaign manager. just does exactly what mary trump would have told you that he would do under these circumstanc circumstances. and then this struggle with dr. fauci is part of the picture of donald trump that mary trump paints. talk about family values. it is an extraordinary picture. and the real misfortune, though, lawrence, is what's happening to the country. you know, while the psycho drama is being played out inside the trump family and inside donald
trump's head, he's presiding over an unmitigated disaster with the coronavirus. it is just astounding that the united states is incapable of dealing with a virus that is daunting, that is deadly, but that other countries have managed to get under control. and the president has actually militated against effectively responding to the virus. it is american tragedy we see unfolding but on the level of our national daily life. >> mary trump tells us what donald trump cannot feel. he can't feel normal human emotions and empathy and so he's not worried about what happens if children go back to school. he's not worried about how many teachers will die. he's not worried about children getting brain damage from coronavirus. mary trump tells us he cannot
feel sadness. and you can see mary trump's sadness in donald trump's inability to feel sadedneness a what that means for the country now. >> we're all paying the price for someone that can't feel sadness. it sounds like if you reason to mary trump, those that love the president and aren't related to him or didn't know him very well, but i'm worried, lawrence, that because he can't show empathy, he won't take up anything in the heroes act which still sits waiting in the senate for a vote which shows empathy to health care workers, which extends unemployment, which helps state and local governments. as gene pointed out, americans are suffering because the president, the reason he was impeached puts his personal and political interests above the countries. >> gene, the polling today on the presidential campaign shows there simply is not in the
polling right now a path to victory for donald trump. in the nbc poll, 50% say they absolutely never under any circumstances will vote for donald trump. so 50% are locked away. >> yeah. >> unavailable to him. and joe biden just needs to build on that. >> yeah. the polling we saw today, especially the nbc poll, but there were other polls out today as well, it's just brutal. and you picked the number that is the most difficult for the president. 50% of voters simply will under no circumstances vote to re-elect this man. so if that entire half of the electorate is off limits to you and there is another 13% that could go either way. you're not going to get all of those either. so clearly if the election were tomorrow, it would -- it would be a massive defeat for president trump.
now we've got four months to go. things could change. normal disclaimer. but this is strikingly bad polling for an incumbent president at this stage of a campaign for re-election. and i can't think of a single one that has recovered from these kinds of deficits. and he's heading rapidly in the wrong direction because, as the congressman said, he's on the wrong side of the huge titanic issues that we're dealing with right now. he's on the wrong side of dealing with the coronavirus. he's on the wrong side of racial justice. >> and he thinks firing the campaign manager is the solution to all of that. congressman eric swalwell, eugene robinson, thank you both for starting us off tonight. we appreciate it. >> glad to be here. when we come back, donald trump went to georgia today for another campaign event illegally paid for by american taxpayers.
stacey abrams reminded georgia voters what the president should be doing today to fight the coronavirus. stacey abrams will join us next. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? no you were talking about allstate and insurance. i just... when i... let's try again. everybody back to one. accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today. (vo)you start with america's verizmost awarded network, to build unlimited right. accident forgiveness from allstate. the one with unbeatable reliability 13 times in a row. this network is one less thing i have to worry about. (vo) then you give people more plans to mix and match so you only pay for what you need verizon unlimited plan is so reasonable, they can stay on for the rest of their lives. awww... (vo) you include the best in entertainment
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we have breaking news at this hour from georgia. the associated press is reporting that the republican governor of georgia, brian kemp, who was wearing a mask today when he greeted donald trump at the airport in atlanta, there he is, his mask is off. if you watch this, he will put on his mask, put on his mask as he begins to talk to donald trump there at the airport in georgia. after doing that, he tonight has issued an order that the associated press says explicitly voids local mask mandates. that's the governor of georgia overriding every local official in the state who wants to
mandate wearing masks in that local area. the governor of georgia who wore a mask when he greeted donald trump today says no one in local government in georgia is allowed to mandate the behavior that you will see everyone who is greeting donald trump there is complying with, which is wearing masks. that's the governor in the light blue suit and the red tie who just put his mask on to talk to donald trump. as donald trump goes down that line, as i watched him go down that line when it was happening live today, every single person he spoke to in that line was wearing a mask. joining us now is stacey abrams, the former democratic leader of the georgia house of representatives and the founder of the voter protection pack fair fight action. she's also the author of the new book "our time is now: power, purpose and the fight for a fair america."
stacey abrams, your reaction to the breaks news that governor is saying local officials' judgment does not matter. they are not allowed to mandate masks at any level of government in georgia. >> from the beginning of this catastrophe, brian kemp demonstrated he has no competency in this process. this is the same man that didn't understand that asymptomatic people could spread the disease. he has forwarded the attempt of the mayor saying that if you are going to come to savannah, you have got to wear a mask. the mayor of atlanta followed saying if you are going to be at the airport, you have to wear a mask. what he continues to do is down play not only the challenge to georgians but the deaths of georgians. more than 3,000 georgians have perished and he continues to
fiddle while rome burns. he is following the lead of the incompetency and the immorality of the president of the united states. >> so let me be clear about this. the governor of georgia is not allowing mask wearing to be mandated as the busiest airport in georgia and one of the busiest airports in the world, atlanta's airport, which is a hub for delta airlines. most of the delta flights you get on in this country has at some point probably been in georgia. and this governor is saying that there is no mandate for wearing a mask in that busy airport. >> no mandate in the airport. no mandate near the ports of savannah, which is the area that is one of the fastest growing ports in the world. no mandate in any of the tourest areas. no mandate when you have to go into a nursing home. no mandate when you go into a grocery store. no mandate for those forced to
work in meat processing plants. no mandate where people's lives are at stake because he is too afraid of the consequences of leadership to actually demonstrate any. >> just for warning for travelers who must travel for whatever reason that they must at this time, if they are routed through atlanta they will be protected on the plane by the airline that requires masks, but they will then pass through an airport or some of the passengers on their plane will have passed through an parapartt that offers no protections whatsoever. this is something the governor is adamant about. others have tried -- other mayors have tried to implement this and this governor just absolutely forbids it. >> the mayor started the trend last week. it was followed by the mayor. and unfortunately when it was
pointed out to the governor who issued a tweet saying you couldn't force this, someone pointed out to him that the law forced these mayors to take these actions to protect their people. tonight we find that rather than quietly accepting the legitimacy of protecting georgians, he is going to protect his power and follow the lead of donald trump and prove his incompetence and immorality by declaring that no one can be forced to wear a mask, and that puts lives at risk. >> donald trump went to atlanta today that was billed as an infrastructure speech. he didn't talk about infrastructure as much as he talked about joe biden attacking him by name repeatedly, also attacking the news media and doing the normal donald trump routine that had nothing to do with infrastructure. what would you say to georgia voters about what they should be focussing on in this presidential election? >> i would say that we need to focus on electing a man of
courage, a man of competence, a man that actually believes in saving lives and not trying to simply win an election. and that is joe biden. and we know that donald trump recognizes that georgia is at play because he has spent more than a million dollars running advertisements in georgia in the early summer. we know that he understands that david purdue and kelly are going to be shortly evicted from their seats in the senate, and we are going to pick up two senate seats because we have added more than 750,000 new registered voter since my election. 45% of whom are under the age of 30. 49% of whom are people of color, and they demonstrated that power by more than 1.2 million georgians going to the polls in the primaries despite the world watching the debacle and the december grace of an election. we know we can win. trump knows we can win and with joe biden at the helhelm, we ar going to win the white house and
the senate seats. >> i can remember when georgia had democratic senators, sam nunn was in the senate when i was working as a staff in the senate. but you will have to come back to convince me that democrats can win two senate seats in georgia. i'm not there yet. but come back and make the case for when we have more time. >> happy to do so. >> thank you, stacey abrams, for joining us again tonight. really appreciate it. >> absolutely. >> when we come back, we learned more grim detail about the killing of george floyd today when reporters in minneapolis were allowed to view the police body camera video of two of the first officers to arrive on the scene. benjamin crumb p will join us next. but we're all going at our own speed. at enterprise, peace-of-mind starts with our complete clean pledge,
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police after reporters in minneapolis today were allowed to view the police body camera video of two of the officers who first responded to the scene, the minneapolis star tribune says body worn camera footage from thomas lane showed that george floyd was given no explanation for why he was being questioned before lane pointed a gun and swore at him, touched him multiple times and forced him out of his vehicle into the street. the star tribune reports that the police body cam videos show that floyd was frightened, began crying about two minutes into lane's video and was reluctant to exit his car after lane offered no explanation for the police investigation. floyd was also reluctant to enter the squad car after king had informed him about the alleged fake bill, but he did not appear to push or fight back or attempt to flee.
nbc's shaquille brucer reports seeing officer derek chauvin press his knee into floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 30 seconds, longer than previouslie lly estd while floyd says, i can't breathe. today, the family of george floyd filed a wrongful death law sult against the four officers involved for using illegal and deadly use of force. the lawsuit is also seeking damages from the city of minneapolis for negligence in failing to control excessive use of force by police. yuning us now is benjamin crump, attorney for george floyd's family. i know you will be able to obtain these videos in your discovery process in your civil lawsuit, but as of tonight, with these reporter accounts of what they saw in the videos today,
what stands out to you? >> well, certainly, lawrence, it documents what we put in the lawsuit that was filed on behalf of george floyd's family, his children, the fact that it was not just the knee of derek chauvin on george floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds that killed him, but it was the knee of the minneapolis police department that killed george floyd because they have a history of policies and procedures and deliberate indifference that really violates the constitutional rights of arrestees, especially black men, lawrence. >> some of the reports indicate that the case made by officer lane's attorney does not seem quite so clear when you look at the body cams because the
minneapolis star says that lane saw floyd and a passenger, quote, digging underneath the seat and that floyd was acting erratically. the minneapolis star says the videos do not show that. the videos do not support what officer lane has said he saw. >> and, lawrence, that's what transparency is so important. black people in america are dealing with an additional public health crisis while everybody else is dealing with the coronavirus pandemic. we're dealing with the pandemic of police brutality and police corruption and excessive force that has seen far too many of us become hashtags. that's why we have to keep demanding transparency. these videos contradict everything they said happened to george floyd. remember, lawrence, when i came on your show with his family in the beginning they had a report
that never once mentioned the knee in the neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. that's 526 seconds that each one of those four officers had an opportunity to stop killing george floyd. >> and the other thing that the reporters are saying that they were getting from these videos is that the officers were all very kind of -- one report used the word clinical about it. they were not at all anxious about what was going on. they were exchanging points with each other. derek chauvin asking a couple of the other officers are they okay. but there is no point at which you can find actual concern for george floyd. >> yeah, lawrence. and my co-counsel attorney jeff storms and i, we talked about that deliberate indifference, the fact that it was almost as if when he said, i can't breathe, i can't breathe and
officer chauvin said, well, if it takes oxygen to yell, if you quit talking, then maybe you'll have more oxygen. what a terrible thing to say for a police officer who is supposed to be a professional, supposed to be a first responder and sustain life, not take life. it was just deliberate indifference. any one of those four officers could have simply said, hold on. he's in a medical crisis and just pushed the other officer off his neck or his back. the thing that the lay people wanted to do, lawrence, but the police kept them back with mace. everybody knew, even george knew they were killing him. and, so, it's just a troubling pandemic that we have to deal with in america. and i did want to say this one thing, lawrence, that i'm sure you can appreciate. there are some people who say, well, the police kill more white
people than black people. well, we have to clarify that and put it in context. when you look at the fact that black people in america only make up 13% of the population while white people in america make up 73% of the population, you have to put it in context. the american journal of public health said that a black man is 3.5 times more likely to be killed by the police than a white man. and so this is our opportunity to finally have this important conversation and do something in the aftermath of george floyd. we're at a tipping point, lawrence. >> yeah. i just emphasize that point. in the entire history of this subject, going back on research we going back 50 years and beyond, unarmed black men have been disproportionately killed by police in numbers that are at a rate that is dramatically
higher than police officers killing white people. benjamin, we need more time. we will discuss it more the next time you are here. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you, my friend. >> thank you. and when we come back, the united states crossed another terrible milestone today in the coronavirus pandemic. we have now crossed the 3.5 million line on total number of reported cases. but can we trust the count going forward now that donald trump is trying to prevent the cdc from seeing the data on hospitalizations from the coronavirus? this breaking news next. t.
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states has 3,500,818 confirmed cases of coronavirus. and as of tonight, this country has suffered 138,006 deaths from coronavirus. today dr. anthony fauci said this. >> we got to almost reset this and say, okay, let's stop this nonsense and figure out how can we get our control over this now? and looking forward, how can we make sure that next month we don't have another example of california, texas, florida and arizona? because those were the hot zones now. and i'm looking at the map saying, we've got to make sure it doesn't happen in other states. so rather than these games people are playing, let's focus on that. >> coronavirus cases are increasing in 41 states. today the republican governor of
alabama announced a statewide mask mandate beginning tomorrow after alabama set a record today of 47 deaths from coronavirus in the state of alabama in one day. texas also set a new one day state record of deaths from coronavirus at 110. and florida set its own record yesterday for the largest number of deaths in a single day of coronavirus at 133. walmart announced beginning on monday it will require customers to wear masks in all of its stores. and the republican governor of oklahoma became the first governor known to have tested positive for the coronavirus. other governors perhaps have tested positive for the coronavirus and have not told us. the governor of oklahoma attended donald trump's rally in
tulsa, oklahoma last month. there he is at the rally. joining us now is the director of the harvard global health institute. and i want to begin with the news that the trump administration is directing hospitals to report coronavirus hospitalizations directly to the department of health and human services and by pass the centers for disease control, which is the normal method of reporting in the past. what is your reaction to that? >> you know, lawrence, i'm pretty concerned about this. we do need a clearinghouse for data. and cdc is traditionally the clearinghouse. and if there is a problem with the cdc not doing a good enough job, we should fix it. i'm worried about whether this data will continue to be available to the american people. the american people are paying for it. whether we will get access to it or not is a little concerning. >> is it possible that the
hospitals could continue report i ing? >> they could definitely do that. they are probably going to continue reporting to states and so states could report the data to the cdc. there are access to this information as do we all. >> i want to get your reaction to the governor of georgia tonight saying that no local authority, no mayor of atlanta can mandate mask wearing anywhere in georgia. >> i don't understand what governor kemp is thinking. they have a lot of cases. they have sort of very rapidly rising number of hospitalizations. they are going to be in trouble for a long time. even if they take aggressive action tonight. not only is governor kemp not
taking aggressive action but preventing others from taking aggressive action. this feels deeply short sided and i think will be armful to the people of georgia. >> where are we headed as we get closer and closer to what would have been the opening of the school year? >> you know, lawrence, i feel like we're giving up on schools in so many parts of the country. there is no interest in trying to curtail the virus. the governor of georgia with policies like that, we won't be able to open schools and keep them open in georgia. it's trust rafrustrating to wat and not even try to open schools this fall. >> when you say we're not going to try, you mean we're not taking the measures we would have to take in order to begin to try, but the people office holders talking tough about opening schools are not really trying to open the schools. >> yeah, look, it's easy to talk talk. it's easy to say i want schools
open. i rally want schools open. i really, really want them open. i doesn't matter. you have to work to get the schools open and there are two sets of things you need to do. you need to bring down the level of virus and prepare the schools. we're not doing either one of those things. >> thank you for joining our discussion tonight. appreciate it thank you. and when we come back, the supreme court unanimously rej t rejected donald trump's argument, now donald trump's lawyers are going back to court to try a new argument against the subpoena for his tax returns from the manhattan district attorney. i'm sure donald trump is going to lose this new argument, too. but i'm not sure how long the court process will take. we'll find out what former federal prosecutor joyce vance thinks next. federal prosecutor joyce vance thinks next. hi, i'm pat and i'm 75 years old.
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lawyers new argument, trying to block a subpoena for donald trump's tax returns from the manhattan district attorney. the judge denied their first arguments against that subpoena and his finding was supported by the united states supreme court last week. joining us is former u.s. attorney joyce vance a professor at the university of alabama law school and msnbc legal contributor. joyce, this will be round two and the appeals process always said there would be around two. because donald trump was trying to argue they have no right to a president's tax returns under any circumstance. that was completely thrown out. and so now, donald trump is doing the normal kind of approach to quash the subpoena saying it too broad. they are asking for too much. and any one of us has the right to make that case in court. how do you think this one is going to turn out? >> so, the timing on this one will be completely up to the judge and lawrence, it's an interesting point because both
president trump and vance's lawyers say the president has to file his next motion, it will probably be what's called a second amended complaint by july 27th. and he's clearly making the same claims that he made ten months ago claims that this district judge ruled against. it could be as simple as the judge saying these claims aren't any more valid new than ten months ago and he can send the case on down the road for the second circuit to rule on. so the courts could expedite this and move quickly if they're inclined to. >> and when you look at judge catsman's opinion in the second circuit, this if case goes up to the second circuit, it seems the judge will write basically the same opinion again saying, you know, of course, cy vance gets the tax returns and this time, joyce, is it possible if president trump's lawyers try to
go to the supreme court, the supreme court would say no, we're not taking the case. the judge's ruling stands? >> it is possible, but it could involve some delay, particularly given the season that we're in. it is possible and certainly not unprecedented that the court could rule relatively quickly but it's also possible that they could continue this delay game that has benefitted the president so very much and of course, lawrence, we know even if the court does rule inside vance's favor, you and i will not be reading the president's tax returns tomorrow. those will go back into the grand jury and be part of that grand jury's investigative work. >> yeah, neither criminal litigation will come out of it or not and there will be exhibits in a courtroom some day in a case against donald trump or they won't. we'll have to be patient. joyce vance, thank you very much for joining us tonight. appreciate it.
>> thank you. >> joyce vance gets tonight's last word. "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts right now. well, good evening once again day 1273 of the trump administration leaving 111 days to go now until the presidential election. not long ago this evening the president confirmed a major shakeup in his reelection campaign staff. brad being demoted. bill is the new campaign manager. he will serve as an advisor for the data and digital operations. this change comes hours after a new round of poll numbers that show the trump campaign struggling to put it mildly. much more on all of it coming up. we're also reporting on an alarming new sign of the severity of these coronavirus outbreaks across our country, which as of tonight, has now seen 3.5 million confirmed cases. this is