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tv   Decision 2020  MSNBC  November 4, 2020 11:00pm-12:00am PST

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good morning, everyone. welcome to night two of msnbc's special coverage of the 2020 election. >> joe biden has a 253 electoral
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lead to donald trump's 214. biden becoming the projected winner in michigan and the apparent winner in wisconsin. but donald trump saying he will file for a recount. >> and here's how the key races stack up. we'll start in the state of georgia. right now, still too close to call. president trump with a slight lead, a difference of 23,000. but at this hour, it's too close to call. voting is still taking place in fulton county. nevada also too close to call. but joe biden has a slight lead. the difference of 7,600. north carolina, also too close to call. and pennsylvania, the midwest wall, the state there. part of the blue wall, i should
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say, also too close to call. and the state of arizona, all eyes on that state this evening. too early to call, but joe biden has a slight lead. i want to bring in ali velshi at the big board. all eyes will be on a few states, and we're expecting some counts to come in. ali, bring us up to speed. >> it's 253-214, electoral college votes. and we're waiting for some data soon from arizona. there's 551,000 votes outstanding. joe biden is leading by 80,000. the conventional thinking is that the votes that are outstanding, i'll show you, they tend to be in places that should favor joe biden.
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so the phoenix area, maricopa county, the massive suburb around phoenix, still has votes outstanding. and the county that tucson is in, pi many, a couma county. in maricopa county, he has a lead of 85,000. but 83% of votes are in. i'm hoping this number changes in the course of the next little while. the issue is, will it break in these proportions? remember, they're not that far apart. 52% to 47%. if they continue to break in this pattern, this increases the lead for biden. but that is not what happened earlier this evening. we'll also be looking at stuff from nevada coming in probably a little later this morning. but you mentioned georgia. i want to show you that. we're expecting votes coming in
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from georgia. if you look at the remaining vote in georgia, the big areas, these are nine counties around atlanta. they're not all looking for big numbers. but the counties northeast and northwest of atlanta, we're expecting big numbers. cobb county with 95% of the vote in, 15,000 left there. walton county, dekalb county. 95% in, looking for 3,000 votes there. clayton county, looking for 20,000 votes. there's a lot of places all over, columbus county, muscogee county, with 89% in. georgia has slightly smaller numbers. overall, donald trump has a 23,000-vote lead here. and in pennsylvania, you talked about that. we will continue to get more numbers in pennsylvania through the course of the day. 89% are in, and donald trump has
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164,000-vote lead in pennsylvania, he declared victory in pennsylvania yesterday. here's why it seems premature. in allegany county, we're waiting for 84,000 votes. joe biden has thecounty, waitinr quarter million votes. biden's got 343 point lead. this historically doesn't seem right. biden should have 85% or 90% lead in philadelphia county and suburbs. bucks county, north of philadelphia, 86% in, looking for 58,000 votes. donald trump has lead of 2,500. would be surprising if bucks county stays red.
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whole area, around philadelphia, this is where i live, they're typically blue. that's what we're looking at. we know we're going to get arizona this hour, something else in nevada over the course of the next few and pennsylvania. >> we are so close in all the states in terms of the margin. talk about what joe biden needs in order to overtake donald trump. start in arizona, waiting on the maricopa count, and they're still doing it, even with the drama, protests outside the elections office, they're continuing to count. we've been getting a trickle of the count as the night as progressed. what the expectation for when we get all the numbers? >> this is a peculiar thing going on in this country. some trump protesters are saying stop the count, other places
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saying finish the count. this is the road to victory right now. sitting 253 to 265. i've colored in things. say the lead stays in arizona and nevada. that gets you to 270 right there. without having to worry about pennsylvania, north carolina and georgia. so even if you were to assume georgia doesn't go joe biden's way, give that to donald trump and north carolina. we're not going to hear about that until november 12th or 11th. for argument's sake give it and alaska to donald trump. joe biden still has 270 if he takes arizona and nevada or arizona and something else, gets him to where he needs to be. example. if i give joe biden arizona and north carolina instead of nevada, 279.
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it's again a better early morning to be joe biden right now. your paths to victory are a lot smooth fer you're joe biden. look at paths. seven paths to victory. seven combinations of states can get joe biden to 270. there are three for donald trump, and one situation in which there would be a tie to go to the house of representatives. >> ali at 2:00 p.m. you did the same thing, 11 ways to get to tie. i told you not to tempt 2020. >> we're not tempting fate. still one, but we know how things go, it's 2020, who knows. >> very on brand for the year 2020. >> we'll talk about that a little bit later. if you've seen "veep," you know what happens. >> we'll ask you to explain that later on. >> i'll try. >> nice to see you both. >> good to see you in person,
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ali velshi. >> daytime slots, i'm very impressed, katie which how you pronounce amman's name so quickly. >> checking in with you throughout the course of the night as the vote counting continues. now nbc's mike menly in wilmington with the biden campaign. give us a read on the sentiment, as ali explained, started the day with a perspective, joe biden had statement earlier today, spoke to the media, where are we in early hours of this morning? >> reporter: listen, biden campaign always said surest path to the electoral votes was
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rebuilding the blue wall through the midwest, the states that donald trump won to get to that white house. problem was given the pandemic and what we've seen and how quickly some of the states report the vote, it was always the slowest outcome, but the biden team is pleased with today, first time one of the campaigns were winning road games, states that opponent had carried four years ago. once wisconsin fell into biden column followed by michigan. feels perhaps this time tomorrow he'll have insurmountable lead in pennsylvania, and that's over 270 electoral votes. clear contrast between the two campaigns, one counting on the voters, other calling in lawyers. former vice president wanted to come and speak yesterday in part to continue to set the tone. praised the historic turnout
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despite the pandemic, saying it shows that democracy is is heartbeat of the country but also touted his margins. had most votes for presidential ticket in american history. and launching their transition website to signal they're ready to take task of governing, while the trump team is going to court trying to stop the count and pursue a legal strategy. biden campaign looking at that as dead end. bob bower, top lawyer for the team says if they pursue this to the supreme court will suffer one of the most embarrassing defeats for president this country. multiple pathways with states outstanding as ali was hanging out and they think it will come in -- whatever it is today, few more hours, guys.
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>> bob bower doesn't see what the case would be if the president tried to take it to the supreme court. mike, thanks for staying awake for us. biden team feels confident, released a transition website, planning for the purposes of the transition if they do win. can put up a shot of it on the screen so everyone can see it. what does that tell you? >> yeah, i think this is part of the effort to communicate to the country he is ready. interesting, i don't think a lot of people realize this, only a recent phenomenon, there's a federal law that requires both campaigns in presidential election to begin the work of preparing for transition early. do you know who wrote that law? guy running the transition team for joe biden, senator ted kaufman who took joe biden's seat in the senate. joe biden formed the team in april, added members over the
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summer but they're ready as soon as they feel comfortable rolling out the formal process of staffing a biden administration, to communicate that to the country. website was just a sneak preview. >> ask you about the issue of sentiment of the biden campaign here. i assume they're looking at same data the rest of us are. looking at numbers that ali was describing, lead in arizona slightly shrinking. still have pennsylvania. as this narrows down to perhaps just one state of pennsylvania, to they have the same confidence in the outcome they had 24 hours ago when joe biden addressed the nation? >> reporter: i find it interesting, this morning when the campaign laid out state of play, there was a bit of caution about pennsylvania. they felt i think they were flying more blind. but over the course of the day
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talking to the campaign, and they've been talking to allies in the state delegations and state democrats, they've been increasingly confident that the vote that's out there, mail-in vote yet to be counted was still going to come in with margins they needed. we continue to see the numbers coming in over the course of the day, it's only borne out what they were expecting. bob casey himself was talking about 100,000 vote margin, there's some sentiment might be larger still. bob casey has been playing steve kornacki on his own as part of an effort to assure democrats in the state what's happening. posting regular zooms of him in front of a map talking about different state of play. just indication of how the biden campaign has felt it was important given what the trump team has been doing and the president himself not being seen publicly but tweeting, to communicate fully and publicly
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about everything they're seeing to keep calm in the party. democrats known perhaps to panic a bit as we saw happening beginning last night. >> just to be clear last night, only one costeve kornacki. >> reporter: of course. often imitated, never duplicated. >> well said. >> thanks so much. with the latest on the trump campaign, nbc news senior reporter shannon. lot of tweets were flagged by twitter, full of disinformation, and there's reporting also that the president feels dejected as path to his re-election are
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disappearing. >> they're not acting like a campaign that's winning basically. but really this is where the trump campaign always thought it would be. i think back to conversations i had with people close to the campaign a year ago. people said it's going to be a nail biter, a few thousand votes in pennsylvania and probably duked out in the court. that's where we are, despite all the events of the past year. as far as the map and how this strategically plays out on the vote count, they're seeing promising signs. seen the numbers that came in in arizona. those are breaking for the president at exactly the rate and margin they were hoping they would. it's big question whether or not that continues. their internal data had been estimating these would break for the president by 58% and if it did that, feel they could pull
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off a win. encouraged with arizona. pennsylvania a different story. were hoping a lot more trump country votes were going to come in there and they were going to be able to exceed their margins from 2016. that would be even more white working-class voters in rural counties coming out for the president. happening in some places but not all of them, some of the big ones where they needed it. big question is going to be, how big is the turnout in philadelphia, is it where democrats expect it or come in shy? comes in shy, trump campaign thinks they have a chance. in georgia they think that could be recount territory, going to be really tight there too. of course overlaying all of this is legal strategy. they've filed lawsuits in a number of states. michigan, wisconsin, georgia, pennsylvania, and lot of that has to do with trying to stop
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votes that come in after election day from being added to the tally. in pennsylvania for example, state law says ballots after 8:00 p.m. should no longer be counted on election day. the state made adjustments to that because of the pandemic but that's the legal strategy they're trying to curtail any late absentee ballots from coming in and being counted. when they say stop the counting, that's what they're referring to. >> stop the counting in pennsylvania, keep counting in arizona. >> the late ballots. >> shannon petty piece, we appreciate it. around this time last night -- we don't know what's going to happen, but momentum started to change. ballot dump from milwaukee county and really changed direction of that state. democrats were very worried about it and then got to call it
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for joe biden this afternoon or yesterday afternoon. it is morning now. >> 36 hours or so, we got a note from peter alexander in trump campaign there was worry about the turnout in pennsylvania, trump campaign wasn't sure it was high as they wanted to. second day of the coverage, shannon saying that's what it may come down to. >> we'll see the suburban women, whether they stuck with trump, especially in the collar counties that ali was mentioning. we have a lot to cover, votes coming in, getting counted, updates hourly. nevada is a lot closer than anyone expected it to be. we'll be right back. spitalizatis every minute. understanding how to talk to your doctor about treatment options is key. today, we are redefining how we do things.
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welcome back, with president trump's path to victory
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narrowing, nevada victory has become critical to them. complicating that is joe biden maintains a small lead there. nevada man john ralston, dean of the nevada political press corps and editor of the independent. you've been praised by everyone on the network you've been on with today. i will add to the praise, nobody knows your state better than you do. we're waiting for a number of votes to come in. trump campaign is confident those are going to break towards him. biden team says no, no, no, they're going to be ours. as somebody who understands the state, what is your perception of what is left to count and who makes up that count? >> i can tell you first of all, no matter what they say publicly, can expect both to say it's going to break their way. biden team is much more
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optimistic because most of the votes are clark county, las vegas, democratic stronghold of nevada. tens of thousands of mail ballots still need to be counted. state's election changed this year. usually don't have a lot of mail but because of the pandemic, democratic legislature mandated every voter get a mail ballot. so you've had hundreds of thousands of mail ballots, used to be tens of thousands. they've broken more than 2-1 in favor of the democrats. they believe they're going to break their way for joe biden. those are not only ballots left. that's preponderance of them but some left in washoe county, evenly split, where reno is and some rural counties have gone to trump. but only about 10% of the mail
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ballots outstanding. >> john are you -- >> go ahead. >> are you surprised it's this close? >> i am. i thought that biden would win based on the early voting and mail numbers. didn't think would be a blowout but win by four points. i'm surprised. main reason, hillary clinton won this democratic stronghold of clark county by about 11 points. so i thought biden would at least equal that performance. so far, and again there's a lot of clark county ballots to be counted, he has not, only about eight points ahead in clark county. anytime a statewide candidate in democratic party is below ten points in clark county, that's a sign of trouble. as i said though, many -- maybe 100,000 ballots or so need to be counted in clark county. that could change things. >> we've been keeping pulse on
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the various states and recount laws if there are any. bring you up to speed on what it is in nevada as we go forward, as this number narrows down -- in arizona and nevada, they're critical for president trump. if wisconsin is any indicator of the president's strategy, demanding a recount there, probably get it because it's so narrow, not likely to change anything. what is it in nevada? >> very easy to get recount in nevada, all you have to do is lose a race and can ask. joe gorgenson could ask for recount, that's how it works in nevada. by the way, it's happened in nevada that third and fourth place finishers have asked for recounts because they can. as i've been saying all today, seems to fit with permissive nature of our state, doesn't it? allow anybody to ask for recount? >> when you have the city of second chances in las vegas,
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bound to give anyone a second chance, right? >> let me ask you this, john. donald trump, to be fair hispanic and latino vote not a monolith but donald trump did better with cubans and venezuelans in miami and latinos in bored counties in texas than was expected. he's upping his margin among latino voters. nevada is a state with a lot of latino voters. feeling was they were not going to break for donald trump. are you seeing a change in your state in the last few years when it comes to that? >> you know, i wouldn't say that really, katie. hillary clinton did very well here with hispanics. governor and u.s. senator who won in 2018 do very well among hispanics. there was some weakness shown in polling during the caucus and going forward with joe biden
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among hispanics. by weakness, i mean he was winning them not by the margin he should have. remember too, the culinary union, lot of casino workers, 50,000 or 60,000, about half hispanic. were crushed by the pandemic, most lost their jobs, some have come back now. question is who did they blame? democratic governor of the state or donald trump? maybe that affected the vote but we won't know until we dig deeper into the data after the ballots are counted. >> all right. >> once we get the ballots, going to find out probably tomorrow. john, thanks for staying up for us. we appreciate it. >> thanks john. after the break, panel will join us, just getting started, lot to break down. >> plus ali velshi with new numbers to break down the path
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to the white house. we're awake! hopefully you are too.
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all right, let's check back in with ali velshi at the big board. going to focus on pennsylvania. focus on the areas that donald trump didn't perform as well as he might have. in 2016, wilkesbury, pennsylvania showed a lot of support. i remember the rallies vividly, very raucous, i have specific memories for them. is he performing as well as he did in 2016? >> this is luzerne county, one
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example of county that donald trump had flipped. obama had 52%, romney 47%. and donald trump took that 47%, made it 58% to hillary clinton's 39%. now this time, 95% of the vote in in luzerne county, just one example, donald trump is slightly underperforming. still leading in the county, ahead by 21% but underperforming 2016, joe biden is overperforming where hillary clinton was in 2016. this is just one little example. there are places in pennsylvania where donald trump is outperforming what he did in 2016. so look, here's another example, butler county north of pittsburgh. 95% in, 65% in for trump, little lower. hillary clinton got 29%, joe
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biden got 32%. bottom line, all the lawsuits -- the donald trump campaign has declared victory in pennsylvania, we don't have that view, no other news organization has. we have to count the ballots, not sure what we're suing about, get it counted. allegheny is pittsburgh, where we're expecting about 80,000 more. biden is way ahead there. philadelphia county is way over here, city of philadelphia. expecting a lot of votes here. and collar counties, main line around philadelphia, just going through a bunch of them, lot of uncounted ballots here. montgomery county where i live, mostly counted, 62% to 36%. these counties outside of philadelphia used to be red. philadelphia was heavily
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reliably democratic, and number of people who would vote is the issue. biden is expected to grow there. point is, they've just got to count the votes in pennsylvania. everybody is chanting and protests should be all the same, you don't have to protest because everybody believes we should count the votes except donald trump. he wants them counted some places and not others. they feel they have gains to make in pennsylvania. biden campaign feels like they have gains to make in pennsylvania. as we look at path to 270, thing that has to happen for donald trump. if he wins pennsylvania, gets to 234. wins north carolina, 249. if he wins georgia, gets him to 265. still has to sweep those, give him alaska, 268. doesn't get to 270 without all of that stuff and one of arizona
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or nevada. there are paths to victory as we have discussed, but they are not as numerous for donald trump. nine paths for joe biden, three paths for donald trump, one path toward a tie. >> ali, pull up luzerne county pennsylvania comparison between 2016 and 2020, katie want to ask you as well. you covered campaign in 2016. what is interesting, trump voters actually showed up. ali the 2020 numbers, 86,000 people voted for president trump compared to -- >> 84,000. >> compared to 78,000. so when you look at it, there it is, there was a turnout for president trump, he was able to mobilize and energize his base. anyone who thought people were going to sit it out or indifferent, not the case. >> good point. underperforming as percentage,
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but numbers are up. even in places where trump is underperforming, got more votes in luzerne county than in 2016. >> in 2016 he surprised everybody with his performance in pennsylvania. place like luzerne county, he would go and have rallies attended by upwards of 10,000 people, always very raucous. interested to talk to people i met out there whether they still supported him. one woman in particular who i took a picture with back in 2015, ran into her again in another wilkesbury rally in 2019 i think, last year. she was just as fervent about donald trump as she was back in 2015. she hadn't wobbled at all. checked in with her during the pandemic, wondering if that was
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going to change anything, said no, absolutely not. there was feeling among voters in that part of pennsylvania, trump supporters, that the economy needed to open. so he garnered more support as the pandemic went on because people were tired of the lockdowns. problem, and ali velshi, steve kornacki, anybody who can do simple math is pointing this out, joe biden also garnered a lot more support for people who didn't like the way president was handling this. donald trump upped his numbers and turnout, joe biden upped his numbers even more. >> 52,000 votes for hillary clinton. joe biden's percentage was higher and his votes. pennsylvania voted in force. everybody thinks it works in their favor. i was in wilkesbury, had a conversation about covid, showing her numbers.
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what a great job donald trump had done on covid, 4% of the world's population and 19% of the cases and deaths, i had it sourced, printed out, gave it to her, she said i believe your numbers are wrong. >> yeah. run into that a lot. donald trump is the ultimate truth teller to his supporters. >> ali, thank you very much. with us now, former executive director of the new york state democratic party and strategist bass ill smooikle, and outreach for president obama and democratic strategist beverly, washington bureau chief, david corn, thanks for joining us. let's talk about pennsylvania there, when all is said and done, going to be moment of reckoning if you will in this country, having a conversation about the democratic party, its
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messaging to diverse group of voters, but also what we were just discussing, there was a large turnout for president trump despite everything we've seen play out in the country, despite trumpism and covid and economic fallout. he was able to mobilize his base and speaks to inflection moment in this country. >> i agree it does. when we talk to a lot of voters, there's a genuine happiness that joe biden predicated campaign on bringing out a lot of those voters that voted for trump but may be dissatisfied with his leadership, going after voters who may have been leaving the democratic party last 20 years. he was able to do that but it's concerning that donald trump is still getting a lot of votes. what this says, i teach at two
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universities and all my students, even with biden's leads, are still melancholy because they think about all those people that voted for donald trump. and what i've been saying is that what his voters are able to do, this goes to ali's point as well, in this era of anti-intellectualism, which has existed other times in our country, those voters have found a way to compartmentalize their vote. they're focused on the agenda, not the man. if the judges they wanted are in office, if their 401(k) plans are doing well, still going to vote for him. racism, sexism, misogyny, xenophobia are not deal breakers because they've compartmentalized that. lot of people may be happy that joe biden could pull this thing out, still nervous about where
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the country is. considering he's still got what 67 million, maybe 70 million votes when it's said and done. >> he's gained more votes than 2016. trumpism not rebuked as many democrats hoped it would be. claire mccaskill said the democratic party had to find new way to talk to voters, win them back. bass i is there way for the democratic party to reframe their argument? economy generally does better under democrats if you look at numbers. is there a way to reframe the message and make it -- i guess make it more appealing to voters that have peeled off over the past decade? >> i have two lines of thought related to that.
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first is that in terms of messaging, certainly joe biden is going to have message of hope and unity, also a message of how getting covid under control will be way back for the economy. for rebound. but democratic county needs to be less concerned about winning back the trump voters and more concerned about continuing to invest in and mobilize the core and base of the democratic party. for example, we're waiting for the final tally for pennsylvania. and part of that tally is philadelphia county, which is 43% african-american, majority minority overall, those voters are going to turn out for joe biden. in part it is making sure that the message and mobilization is consistent, even beyond this
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cycle. making sure we're engaging those voters in a large metro area and in states across the country. like georgia, we're going to see the african-american vote propelling i think joe biden to victory. >> and to both -- you're totally right. african-american vote has turned out for joe biden, in big numbers. potentially largely going to explain if he does win why he won, especially in places that could turn for him like georgia. but can you not appeal to the trump working-class coalition and black voters at the same time? is there not economic message that transcends political parties? >> yes, that was my first point, just that. part of the economic message is understanding and appreciating everyone's pain. that's part of the lesson we learned from 2016. there was a sense that
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democratic party was not responding to or not even aware of the economic pain and need and dignity of work that the white working class was confronting. so i do think there's -- i'm going to stop you, apologize, but just got new maricopa county numbers. we're going to continue after this update. ali? >> they're trickling in. maricopa county, we were expecting numbers. right now arizona state has 86% numbers in. still looking for quite a few. several hundred thousand here. maricopa county around phoenix, heavily democratic area, now have 86% of the numbers in, up from 83%. joe biden is leading there, up by 74 points. 51.4 to 47.2. still expecting votes from maricopa county but getting closer to the finish in arizona.
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we will not get new numbers for a few more hours but counting is under way. 3% increase in the total, way more to count than we've got in here right now. but joe biden with 912,000 votes in maricopa, donald trump with 838,000. remains close. 51% to 47%. still leaning toward joe biden. statewide, still too early to call. we've got 86% of the number but slim lead by joe biden. 50.5% to 48.1%. difference is 68,000 votes for joe biden. right now in arizona. >> less or more than joe biden had in terms of the lead? >> lead is shrinking for joe biden. still getting more votes in heavily democratic precincts but the rate at which those numbers are coming in, percentage
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they're coming in for donald trump is a little bit higher. it's not enough to make a trend, just went from 83% to 86%, but donald trump is eating into joe biden's lead. >> everybody is asking themselves or the television this, why in the world is it taking so long? >> good question. they have issues in arizona. protests going on. we've been told by election counters that delay occurring now is not because of the protests. unclear. as you know every state's got combination of ballots that come in immediately, absentee ballots, mail-in ballots and they're processing them in different ways at different times. in state of michigan -- sorry, pennsylvania, allegheny county they let everybody go, coming back at 10:00 in the morning to start counting. everybody is counting them differently. might be something to look into, have a national standard, three
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shifts like at nbc when things are happening. >> drink a lot of coffee. >> not to take away anything from all the volunteer workers. >> it's fantastic, hard work. >> doing incredible and hard work under tremendous amount of pressure because eyes of the world and this country are on them. >> it's important work. if you've got mail-in ballots, it takes extra time. >> how about allow states to start voting -- start counting the vote as it comes in, in days ahead, so we're not waiting days afterward. >> florida is good example of that. >> purposeful effort to keep the votes from happening early so we would be in this position where there was a delay and trump and the republicans could say what's going on with the delay. they didn't allow these states that petitioned to start earlier to do so. >> it's state legislatures that do this.
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that's why we say vote all the way down your ballot. state legislatures you can complain to, bring the voting into 21st century. everybody can count at the same time and same way. >> we need dose of election reform in this country. thank you, david corn -- elena, finish your thought. we interrupted you mid sentence. finish the point you were making. >> short and sweet. in 2016 we learned the mistake of the democratic party in terms of the outreach to the blue-collar worker struggling to make ends meet. i think we have right now joe biden reaching out to all americans and saying that the economic argument he's making is that if we get covid-19 under control, we can reopen our economy, put our people back to work. while hes just democratic
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nominee and will be i believe the president of the united states, he will be the president for all americans, not just democrats. >> thank you for that. david, thanks for your patience. ask you about donald trump's behavior past 24 hours. from declaring himself the winner, then claiming again on twitter that -- >> for electoral purposes. >> that they're the winners in pennsylvania, which is absolutely false, that is not the case as of yet. and fact we haven't seen him today and he has no public events scheduled for tomorrow as well. give us the thinking on the trump world from your perspective. >> well, i don't know if there's a lot of thinking, strategic intent. he hasn't tweeted in about six hours which is almost a world record for him. you know, last night he gave his straw man -- there we see him
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coming in, saying i won, it was fraud, declaring victory. seem to have been a lot of discussion within his family and campaign staff whether that was the right move to make. what's really interesting, didn't hear much from him because i think he's feeling isolated tonight. have you seen any republican elected officials running out and endorsing his view that the election has been stolen by him? i hate to say this, i don't do it often, i watched fox news tonight and they're not amplifying and expanding the election has been stolen thing from trump. he's sending out solicitations to donor base, saying the left-wing mob is stealing the election from him. yet you don't see establishment republicans, elected republicans, not a lot of other
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figures even in the right-wing media who are joining him on this cause. so he is tremendously isolated. clock is ticking. his protesters out there tonight don't know whether they should be saying stop the vote or count the votes. they're doing different things in different places in sync with a legal strategy that's incoherent coming from the trump campaign. nothing is going right for him at the moment, even if he's making some progress in arizona and nevada's tight. in terms of message and strategy, he's all on his own. in a few days may even be lonelier than he is now. >> i watched top of tucker tonight and bit of hannity, it's not quite the message they were sending, more the election is getting stolen from you, there's disconnect from some parts of fox and other parts of fox. david, do you find it telling
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that the president is quiet tonight? >> i think so. listen, katie, if you ever run for president and think they're stealing the election from you afterwards, i would assume we'd be hearing from you, would be speaking to supporters, giving the strategy, doing the message. if you're going to be protesting, how to do it. he doesn't seem to have much to say right now. maybe this will change, could change in the next ten minutes. maybe he's just conked out. he's not addressing the nation. he's not addressing his own people. doesn't seem to be addressing fox. i don't know if he will be on in the morning. so i think it's telling he knows he has a poor hand and this is not a guy who psychologically handles losing easily. because according to him he's never lost anything, always the winner winner winner. without people rallying to him,
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he's kind of -- i think -- i don't know how he feels, but looks from the outside like he's kind of at sea right now. compared to what joe biden's done, statements he's made, and statements coming from his campaign, acting like adults, someone who might inherit the presidency and be leader of the nation, something trump can't do. >> look at actions. j.k. accordi jared kushner looking around, asking for james baker to head up the lawsuit, you have rudy giuliani and eric and his wife in philadelphia railing about the vote being counted, that's telling in itself. david, basil, elena, thank you. >> jon forttier, pick up on
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katie's point of the legal challenges, not sure that rudy giuliani articulated one in the press conference earlier today. not sure if you had chance to catch it, but assuming there's a legal footing for trump campaign to challenge anything right now, what might it look like from legal perspective? >> well, i think the legal challenges are small and around the edges, despite the rhetoric, sounds like they're trying to stop the vote counting altogether. really that's not possible. challenges they're making are really for access into polling places, or for probably a small number of ballots coming in under certain circumstances in pennsylvania. bark is bigger than the bite. talk is stopping the vote counting but suits are smaller things. if we get into recount situation and goes well enough for donald trump it's close, then will be
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lots of challenges and some may mean a lot. we'll be talking about a few votes. but at this point i think we're talking about small things around the edges that are not going to affect the big counting going on. >> so they don't really have a legal fight, what is your expectation for what we're going to see in the coming days? more rudy giuliani railing against god knows what? >> i think the process is one that is -- we're still counting, they're not going to be able to slow that down to a great extent. i do think that perhaps the counting goes well enough we move into some situations it's close enough, then have recounts, drag it out, bush v gore florida, that's a different situation. but people have to sit tight, realize we have counting, reconciling of final totals, may
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go well or not, but not affected by the candidates. votes are in and waiting to be counted. that will determine the next set of actions. >> bush v gore situation, talking about recounts, you have to find scenario that's extremely close and handful of ballots akin to hanging chad. would it be mismatched signature? you tell me? >> well, again, counting leads to place that's close -- formal recounts are usually boring, don't change a lot of votes. but some legal challenges -- we have innumerable things, military ballots coming in late. ballots that are provisional, people curing their ballots, piles of votes, not ten thousands but things to fight about and we found palette in bush v gore. there's a lot to fight about if
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we get to that point. we're not there at this point. >> jon, thank you. >> coming upon top of the the e midnight out west. you're watching msnbc's continuous coverage of the 2020 election. i am katy tur. >> and i'm ayman mohyeldin. there are hundreds of ballots being counted across the country as we await the final results of six states. as it stands, donald trump continues to trail joe biden by 39 electoral votes. you have both candidates are still looking for that count to 270. we're also keeping an eye on those outstanding senate races. there is a lot at stake for the democrats, who are hoping to take over control of the senate by now. let's get a quick check on the big board with ali velshi, who has been monitoring all this for us. it's a slow process at this point


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