tv The Sunday Show With Jonathan Capehart MSNBC January 17, 2021 7:00am-9:00am PST
this sunday, three days until the inauguration, and 21,000 members of the national guard are now stationed in washington, d.c. four times the number of troops deployed to iraq and afghanistan combined. already, the inauguration rehearsal originally scheduled for today had to be postponed due to security threats. and amtrak's most famous passenger has been forced to make alternative travel plans. now this. the arrest of a virginia man at an inauguration checkpoint with 500 rounds of ammunition. the man, a private security contractor, claims he made an honest mistake. coast to coast, state capitols are on high alert for threats of violence from disgruntled trump voters. still, joe biden is unwavering in his wish for a patriotic display of our peaceful transfer of power. what was up until recently a
cherished hallmark of our democracy. >> sir, are you at all afraid of taking your oath outside? >> no. >> given what happened. >> no, i'm not afraid of taking the oath outside. we've been getting briefed. >> joining me now is south carolina congressman, house majority whip james clyburn. whip clyburn, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." let me ask you, point blank, right away, you have joe biden there who says he wants to take his oath of office outside. you've gone on record as saying you want it inside. what are your thoughts now? >> thank you very much for having me, jonathan. i am going to do what the president-elect wants done. i put forth what i thought should be measures for security purposes. he's very comfortable with doing it outside. and i will join him outside. >> how worried are you that the
assault on the capitol that took place on january 6th could be repeated on wednesday? >> i'm not worried about that. it will never be repeated. i think that the security is in place to prevent that from happening if for no other reason than establishing the perimeter way outside the capitol grounds would nak impossible for those people to penetrate that. i don't think what's been done in recent days needed to be done on the 6th, but something else needed to be done that was not done. and what i think is taking place now will work very, very well. >> are there any questions you want answered through the investigation that's being done by lieutenant general russel honore at the request of speaker pelosi? >> well, as you may remember,
speaker pelosi's representative during katrina and rita down in new orleans, and that's when i met general honore. i have complete faith and confidence in him to conduct the kind of investigation that needs to be conducted, and i can tell you from personal experiences, he is a no-nonsense guy. he'll call it as he sees it, and i think if he were to find in his investigations that there were tremendous lapses in our security as relates to the capitol police, or if there are members involved, he's going to call it as he sees it. so i'm very comfortable with general honore. >> let me follow up on something you just said, whether members were involved. in the immediate aftermath of the assault on the capitol, you said, you wondered how it was that people were able to find their way to your third floor, out of the way obscure office.
do you still have those questions, and do you think that fellow members of congress were involved? >> i still have those concerns. and i do believe there were some members of congress who were complicit in this. i have watched things in the recent days. i've gone back and looked at speeches made by some members, and i'm telling you, those speeches were designed to incite. and looking at the video, it is clear to me today that there was complicity on the part of some members of congress, and i would hope that the capitol police, the district of columbia would investigate this thoroughly and we ought to react accordingly. >> last question for you, whip clyburn. yesterday, or a few days ago, incoming white house chief of staff ron klain put out what
looks to be an ambitious agenda for the first 100 days, first few days of the biden/harris administration. how confident are you that that agenda will rally bipartisan support? and what happens if it doesn't? >> i hope it will get bipartisan support. it's a great agenda, the kind of thing that must be done at this juncture. a new administration. people's hopes and dreams have been renewed and let's give them real substance. and do it in a bipartisan way. i believe very strongly in being bipartisan. reach across the aisle. invite other people to participate and get their input. but if they refuse to go along with what needs to be done, help him fulfill his vision, use the executive authority that you have. and i'm very pleased he'll be signing on wednesday afternoon some executive orders to reverse things. i would hope he would look at
signing some executive orders to launch some new visions for the country. as you know, i sit here, a prophet of executive orders. it was an executive order that started this amendment of slavery. it was an executive order that integrated the armed services. so a lot can be done using executive orders, and i would hope that the president-elect and president on wednesday will use the executive orders if you find congress to be recalcitrant. >> congressman jim clyburn of south carolina, house majority whip, thanks for coming back to "the sunday show." >> thanks for having me back. as the fallout continues after last week's insurrection, democrats have vowed to investigate the failure of capitol police to stop it. here's what speaker nancy pelosi had to say on friday. >> we must subject this whole
complex, though, to scrutiny in light of what happened and the fact that the inauguration is coming. to that end, i have asked retired lieutenant general russel honore to lead an immediate review of security infrastructure, interagency processes and command and control. there is strong interest in the congress in a 9/11-type commission, an outside commission to conduct that after-action review. >> and joining me now is lieutenant general russel honore. lieutenant general, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." >> good morning. >> all right. what questions do you need answered as you conduct this investigation? >> well, we're still formulating those, but my task, as stated by the speaker, which is to review the infrastructure at the
capitol, the command, control, as well as the procedures. many of those procedures and command and control got a big bump after 9/11. we had all of the pieces in place to forever protect the capitol and the government buildings in d.c. after 9/11. and over time, things changed. we've got all the tools in the box. we've just seen the government deploy 20,000 national guard on short order, and my hat is off to the national guard. both of my sons are in the national guard. they're not there, but they're the national guard. my hat is off to those troops who left home on short notice, as well as the actions of the capitol police in defending our legislators and defending the building. and one of them lost their lives. that being said, my job is short. coming in with one suit, one tie and my work clothes.
blue jeans, jacket and cowboy boots. we're coming in to get this done because all the answers are there. we've got to get the tools in the box working. jonathan, they didn't work that day. and everybody who knows about this from this department on know the tools are there. the tools didn't work. we've got to get the tools to work. get all of government to work together. and that is what we ought to try to come there and get accomplished in short order. >> so this is why i asked you that question. what questions do you need answered because as someone who tells it like it is and is plain spoken, we had you booked on this show before you were asked by speaker pelosi to lead up this investigation. i just know as you watch the events unfold on january 6th that you were asking particular questions about why certain things didn't happen. can you give me one or two of them that ran through your mind as you watched events unfold on january 6th? >> well, i think inside the
capitol, we had sufficient police. when you look at all the three level agencies to deal with this crowd. but they were not synchronized and beating at the right time and right place. we have to figure out how to prevent that from happening again. we also want to look at the infrastructure at the capitol. we'll make some quick recommendations because we can't afford, nor should we want to have 20,000 guard troops permanently stationed in d.c. the fixes are there. we've got to turn on the right tools to get it done, and then look at the buildings, inside the capitol, the compartments of it, how we harden that capitol to make sure this never happens again. >> lieutenant general honore, one more question for you, and that's this. there have been allegations made by democrats in the congress that they believe that this was an inside job. whip clyburn was just on talking about how he wondered how people knew where his third floor out
of the way office was. will your investigation look into those allegations that the insurrectionists, the domestic terrorists had help from members of congress? >> that's the job of the congress and the three-letter organizations with the doj and fbi. that's outside of my scope of work. my scope of work with my team who volunteered to help with this, people smarter than me, that know these plans and have operated with them before, is to work on the infrastructure, the command and control and to look at what changes need to be made in the coming weeks once we withdraw these 20,000 guardmen from the capitol and take some of these fences down and create a new normal. we're up against something that we became enlightened to and that is the work of what happened when terrorists, people with terrorist intent, the definition of terrorism is people use violence and
intimidation to achieve a political or religious objective. we have always worked those tasks in the army i was in, in foreign countries. now we have to look inward. and that's going to cause some hard work by the congress and the doj to make sure that we're actively working. those people with terrorist intent before they show up at the capitol. before they show up at a state capitol. and they've got to change some rules. some rules have got to change is, we can't have demonstrators showing up at a state capitol with long guns. your first amendment right don't give you the right to carry long guns to a demonstration. and that is confusing the hell out of police and intimidating people. remember one of the objectives of a terrorist is to intimidate if not to cause violent harm. and that has to be fixed, and that's in the congress and the doj and the white house. they got to figure that out and work with the american people because we can't have it all.
you can't have freedom to carry a long gun in a courthouse and at the same time go outside and protest. that is unacceptable, and that's something that the american people have to come up with. and my note to the american people, see something, smell something, hear something, say something. call 911. take a video, provide first aid and run like hell. but in the meantime, enjoy yourself, america. the country is safe. go about your business. just be aware of what's going on around you, and if you know somebody is about to do something, let the authorities know. >> amen, amen, amen. lieutenant general russel honore, i feel safer already. thank you so much for coming back to "the sunday show." >> good day. god bless america. >> and joining the conversation is janet napolitano, former secretary of homeland security under president obama. she's also a professor of public policy at uc berkeley. secretary napolitano, thank you
for coming to "the sunday show." >> you're welcome. how are you? >> i am relatively okay. so as a former secretary of homeland security, your thoughts on the fact that the nation's capitol has more national guard troops in it than are in -- troops in it than are in afghanistan and iraq combined? >> well, i think unfortunately you have to do what you need to do, and they want to make sure that this inauguration goes off safely and securely. and so they are taking all precautions to that end. but jonathan, i can't help but recall back when president obama was inaugurated in 2009 how different this city was. there were a million people at that inaugural, and there was the spirit of optimism and hope, and now we, of course, have a city where they have 20,000-plus national guard in order to secure the event.
so changes happened, and not in a good way. >> as a result of the insurrection on january 6th, a lot of attention has now been refocused on a report that came out in 2009 from homeland security when you were the secretary but commissioned by the administration of president george w. bush. got to make that clear. where the primary nugget out of that report was a caution about returning troops gravitating to militias and white nationalism. the fact that this report is now getting renewed attention, i'm wondering, what do you think about what was in that report and are there things in that report that we should be paying attention to right now? >> yes, i think so. i think we need to return to the issue of right wing, white
nationalist groups growing in their membership in the country. becoming violent, acting violently, in violation of the law. this needs to be a focus of the fbi and the department of homeland security. they should be right at the top of the list. >> and with that, we're going to leave it there. former homeland security secretary janet napolitano, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> you're welcome. immediately after this break, new details on the blockbuster "new york times" story on trump world selling pardons to the highest bidder. crucial reporting on that story, next. ♪ plant-powered creative roots gives kids the hydration they need, with the fruit flavors they love. and one gram of sugar. find creative roots in the kids' juice aisle.
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some are collecting 1ing tens o thousands of dollars from people seeking pardons. joining me now is michael schmidt, the author of "donald trump versus the united states, inside the struggle to stop a president." thank you for joining us this sunday morning. what you're reporting on, and correct me if i'm wrong, it's not illegal, but to my mind, it's wild immoral. give us an update on your reporting. >> yeah, so to sort of understand the issue here, we have to sort of look at past presidents. just bear with me for a second. under previous presidents, their pardon process was run like this. the justice department looked through all the applications. people formally applied for it. those were sent to the white house counsel's office. they looked at it. those things were then given to the president. the -- donald trump has completely ashooed that process. he has allowed this ad hoc
process to take hold. which allows for people who know donald trump through business, who are political allies of his, who are friends of his, who worked on his campaign, to lobby him for pardons. they can go to the president or they can go to the senior white house officials and ask them to consider these pardons. and in one of the cases that we found, a former campaign staffer took $50,000 from a former cia agent who had been convicted of a crime, and the deal said she'd go and lobby the white house for a pardon for this individual. and if she got the pardon, she'd get another $50,000. so it's monetized the access to the president on what is considered one of his most sacred powers. the pardon power is considered one of his most sacred powers. >> it's one of his most sacred powers and, correct me if i'm wrong, it's the one power the
president has that only -- he alone can actually exercise. he doesn't need to consult with anybody. technically. >> so it's, as unilateral as a power the president could have. the president could take out a sheet of paper and say, i pardon mike schmidt for all of his sins or for all of the crimes he committed during this period of time. and you could argue that that is a pardon. now white collar defense lawyers would tell you that you should really have some -- a lawyer document that lays out exactly what crimes you're being pardoned for. but there is not a lot of guidance in the constitution or in the law about the presidential power pardon. the president does not need to call the justice department to get them to do this. a lot of times in this administration, the president has wanted the justice department to investigate certain things or not investigate certain things and he has to go through the justice department. that's created a lot of problems for him.
in this case, he didn't need anyone. >> michael, who could be next? one of the things all of us in washington who are covering the administration, we're waiting to see who president trump is going to pardon next. we are about -- depending on how you look at the clock, either three days away from him no longer being president or two days away from him and a few hours away from him no longer being president. who else could be next, and how many more could we be looking at? there's no limit on how many people the president can pardon, is there? >> no. the biggest question is, does the president pardon himself? does the president do something that no other president has, and essentially say that anything he has done wrong, as president, if he's broken the law, he is completely insulated from that. that would be one of the most extraordinary uses of presidential power that we've ever seen, and it would really raise an enormous question about the presidency. is the president above the law?
is the president someone who can do whatever he wants or she wants going forward and, you know, can they be held accountable? because if it's allowed to stand that the president can pardon himself, then future presidents will know that they can go ahead and pardon themselves if they ever run into any problems. >> i'm no lawyer, but if a president can pardon himself and it withstands judicial scrutiny, how could you not say that the president is above the law? but anyway, that's another subject for another time if it comes up. michael schmidt of "the new york times," thank you for coming to "the sunday show." >> thanks for having me. after this break, new details on the motley crew of dead enders being assembled to defend donald trump during his second impeachment trial. chmentl
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made fools of. but if we are right, a lot of them will go to jail. so let's have trial by combat. >> he helped trump incite an insurrection, and now rudy giuliani tells abc news that he's working on trump's impeachment defense for the upcoming senate trial. you know, the one where trump is accused of inciting an insurrection? giuliani might want to be careful considering that trump has reportedly told aides to stop paying him, according to "the washington post." whether giuliani is actually representing trump on impeachment is up for debate with trump campaign spokesman hogan gidley tweeting out that trump hasn't yet decided who will represent him. joining me now, one of the house impeachment managers, congressman joe neguse of colorado. thank you for coming to "the
sunday show." what's the time table? >> good morning, jonathan. good to be with you. no decision has been made with respect to when the articles will be submitted by the speaker to the united states senate, but i suspect that will happen soon and ultimately, the impeachment manager team that's within assembled which is very talented legal team led by my friend and league, representative raskin, will be prepared to try this case in the united states senate whenever that trial commences. >> how broad will this -- will the case be against the president? it's just one article of impeachment and it's focused on the insurrection, but is this -- will your strategy be to go broader than that, to talk about what the president had said about -- falsely -- about the election being stolen or being rigged or fraudulent votes being cast. will the legal strategy go in that direction? >> well, i won't delve into
direct trial strategy. obviously, the managers are working very hard, preparing the case, and the body of evidence that we'll present to the united states senate. i will say it's a fairly straightforward case. millions of americans witnessed what happened on january 6th. the united states senate, the senators who will be serving as jurors in this trial witnessed it. i witnessed it. i was on the floor of the house helping lead the electoral college certification process when the armed insurrection stormed our capitol, the armed mob that was incited by this president. so with respect to your larger point, it's important not to look at this in a myopic way. as you know, the president has engaged in a pattern of incendiary rhetoric and that conduct ultimately led to what we all experienced on january 6th. i also will say, i don't know if those reports are true with respect to mr. giuliani. obviously, the president is entitled to counsel during the impeachment trial, but to retain an attorney who, by all accounts, assisted in inciting
the very insurrection that's the subject of this trial would not be a prudent legal strategy in my view but, obviously, he is entitled to make his own judgments. >> that raises a question for me. have you or anyone among the impeachment managers heard from the white house when it comes to the forthcoming impeachment trial? >> i have not, and i don't know the impeachment manager team has as well. ultimately it's an adversarial proceeding, so i suspect that our interactions will be limited to the trial once those proceedings begin. >> once those proceedings begin, do you foresee a long trial? the fact that the president has been impeached a second time, that happened relatively quickly. so should we expect a trial to be equally as short? >> that's an open question. we'll make a decision based upon the law and ultimately the body
of evidence we believe is necessary to sustain a conviction. make no mistake. that's our goal here to ultimately ensure this president is convicted in the senate trial. five people died during this insurrection, including a police officer, as you know, who tragically lost his life, murdered defending our republic. it's important as the house impeachment managers prosecuting on behalf of not just the congress but ultimately american people to do everything we can to ensure that justice is served. and i believe that ultimately, if the senators who apply an impartial lens to the evidence that we present and that there's a serious trial takes place that they'll reach the same conclusion we did and liz cheney and so many other republicans in the house did which is the president committed a high crime and misdemeanor and ought to be convicted. >> let me pose to you a devil's advocate question. and i hear you on all of that, he committed a high crime and misdemeanor. he should be impeached. he should be convicted. but, by the time the trial is
done and is completed, he will no longer be president of the united states. so why is it important for the trial to go forward and to hold him accountable even after he has left office? >> well, first and foremost, it's an open question as to when the trial will begin. we've made clear and the house spoke loudly this was of an urgent concern, an urgent priority. that his service in office represented ultimately a danger to our republic. and he has no interest in ensuring the peaceful transfer of power. he's made that clear. so doing ultimately pursuing this process to remove him is incredibly important. but i'd also say to your larger point, jonathan, that it's important for the congress to hold this president accountable. we cannot be as a constitutional republic, a country, where the president of the united states can incite an armed insurrection and face no consequences. so it -- for deterrent purposes,
not just simply this president but any future president, does not engage in this type of heinous conduct, i think it's important for this constitutional process, which is a solemn one, to ultimately be completed in the united states senate for the trial to take place and for the senators that ultimately reach their conclusion. >> congressman joe neguse of colorado, house impeachment manager, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you. next up, l.a. county reaches an astronomical record as a nationwide vaccine shortage is exposed. more of "the sunday show" on the other side of this break. l for , but maybe not for people with certain inflammatory conditions. because there are options. like an “unjection™”. xeljanz. the first and only pill of its kind that treats moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, or moderate to severe ulcerative colitis when other medicines have not helped enough. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections.
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♪♪ come on, y'all. that video was trending after bow wow performed maskless at a packed houston nightclub on friday night. it's especially jarring now that the united states has reached nearly 24 million confirmed covid cass and nearly 400,000 lives lost. we also learned friday the federal stockpiles of vaccines trump's been promising to deliver doesn't exist. with three days until inauguration, president-elect
biden said his plan includes activating fema and the national guard to deliver 100 million doses in his first 100 days. joining me now is dr. valerie montgomery rice, president and dean of the morehouse school of medicine and congresswoman pramila jayapal of washington, one of the members of congress who tested positive for covid following the capitol hill insurrection. thank you both very much for being here. congresswoman jayapal, i'll start with you by asking, how are you doing? >> thank you, jonathan. thanks for having me. i'm on day seven of my isolation, and i am feeling much better than i did in the first three days, but, like so many people across the country who get covid and have asthma and other premorbidities, we know that this day 7 through 10 is important, so i'm watchful, and just making sure that i get through this. and thinking about the 3300 people who are dying of covid
every day and the families that are dealing with this. my heart goes out to everybody across the country. and i can't wait until we have a new president that actually takes this virus seriously. >> congresswoman, one of the things people were holding out hope for was getting access to the vaccine and now we find out that the stockpile that we were promised by the trump administration, not that it's low on vaccine. it doesn't exist. your reaction to that reporting? >> well, jonathan, the first thing is, you cannot defeat a virus that you've spent a year saying doesn't exist. and that's what the trump administration has done. there's been no planning at the federal level for any of this. not for testing, not for the production of ppe and other supplies that we need. and certainly not for the delivery of the vaccine. the distribution of the vaccine. so it is a particular cruelty to have states do all this work to
prepare to try to get the vaccine out only to now be told those doses we thought were going to be delivered to our states don't actually exist. it's just a terrible situation, and, you know, the biden administration, not only is going to be the first administration since this virus hit to have a plan, but it's a good plan with real activation of the federal government entirety from fema to the national guard but also 100,000 public health workers because we're going to need to go into homes of people who can't travel to big sites in order to deliver this vaccine. and those public health workers are going to be so essential to the distribution to ensure that we can quickly get these vaccines into the arms of people. >> dr. montgomery rice, i want to get your reaction to the revelation there's no stockpile, but i want to play this sound from secretary azar about
whether there's a vaccine stockpile. >> we are releasing the entire supply we have for order by states rather than holding second doses in physical reserve. >> do those second doses exist right now? is there a stockpile that's still out there? >> no, there's not a reserve stockpile. >> dr. montgomery rice, your reaction, as a doctor, finding out from the secretary of health and human services that the stockpile he said was there on tuesday, by friday, he says there's no stockpile. >> good morning, and first let me say to our congresswoman jayapal, i'm so glad that you are feeling okay. hang in there. get through these next seven days, and we want to see you back on the floor representing us so well. and jonathan, we were confused. i did not understand that there was not a stockpile until he
said that. i thought that they had been holding back the second dose and then they were going to distribute that to the states. now what i did hear him go on to say if this was the same -- in the same interview was that there may potentially be pfizer may have been holding back the second dose. and what i am hopeful is that with the biden/harris team that we have the manufacturing capacity such that we can get as many doses into people's arms as possible and we have the manufacturing capacity that we'll not have a delay in getting the additional vaccines distributed so that we can -- people can have two shots as required. >> doctor, given the plan that the biden administration has put out in terms of how they'll get the vaccine out, how confident are you that they'll actually be
success snfl one of the things i'm certainconcerned about is t the trump administration hasn't been helpful to the biden/harris -- incoming biden/harris administration. hasn't been helpful in sharing information, helpful in meeting with people. so how confident are you that the plan, the solid plan they put forward can actually succeed? >> so, i'm feeling more confident the biden/harris transition team is listening. i was in conversations the other day with dr. smith and dr. murthy. i've had conversations with them myself. i know others who have. they've listened to what we've recommended for distribution, execution plan. there are multiple entities already in place. infrastructure already in place, relationships already in place. we need to extend those more broadly. i'm very excited about the 100,000 workers they're going to identify to go into home and be sort of a public health army,
but we also have federally qualified health centers, academic health centers, medical schools like morehouse school of medicine and other research intensive institutions. we have the capacity to manage the refrigeration and then not only just serve as a vaccination site but a distribution site. and the other important thing is we are a trusted entity in the community. we did -- we've been doing vaccination saturdays, and we are oversubscribed. we have 2,000 people on a waiting list, waiting to come and get vaccinated. and the reason many of them say they choose to come to us is because we're this trusted entity. we're not alone in our communities with being trusted entities. the four historically black medical centers, all of these grassroots organizations, we need to pool them together, come up with a hub and spoke model whereas you have the entities that have a capacity to manage
the refrigeration and to handle the distribution, to then serve as a distribution point for those communities, entities to then get the vaccinations and the vaccines in people's arms so we can turn them into vaccinations. >> that is great to hear that the vaccine hesitancy that we've been talking about for weeks and worrying about for weeks, at least in your experience, is not there. congresswoman jayapal, i want to switch gears a little bit because when you and i spoke on "washington post" live event, you were the first person i heard say out loud, first member of congress, democratic member of congress, say out loud that the thought what happened on january 6th was quote/unquote inside job, and it stuck with me and has stuck with me ever since. now that we are seven days out from that, has your view changed at all? >> no, and, obviously, we're waiting for the full
investigation, but when i spoke to you, jonathan, it was just a belief, not even based on press reports at the time, but a belief there was no way such a planned, coordinated attack could happen so quickly, the capitol could be overpowered so quickly by the most violent assault since the war of 1812, and we not be prepared for it. there was no way that could have happened without some coordination, some information that was from the inside and expliced or implicit looking away from what the intelligence provided. now i will say that there are more and more reports that are extremely troubling that could back up that belief. and i think we're just going to have to engage in a full investigation. i did want to say, jonathan, quickly on the previous point, that the doctor is so correct that layering of services is really what we need for good distribution with trusted advocates. and remember during the unity task force of the campaign, we
were able -- i was the co-chair of the health task force, and we were able to get a lot of this into the biden plan. the 100,000 workers, the doubling of funding for community health centers. these are the ways in which been in the communities for a very long time and servicing those communities when nobody was. while that infrastructure does exist, the trump administration has done a lot to dismantle a lot of that public health infrastructure, particularly in republican states where people need this vaccine just as much as other states, democratically controlled states. so t is going to be a lot of
work for the biden administration and us in congress to really pass a relief package that puts money into these critically needed things like state and local distribution. >> president and dean of the morhouse school of medicine, and congresswoman jayapal, thank you for joining us. homegrown terror fueled by deep-seeded racism trump leaves in his wake. a must see discussion is next. e. a must see discussion is next. it's velveeta versus the other guys. clearly, nothing melts like velveeta. ♪♪♪ there are many reasons for waiting to visit your doctor right now. but if you're experiencing irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue or light-headedness, don't wait to contact your doctor.
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we had heard that the proud boys, who have a rather strong presence in and around lansing had intended on showing up. the other group we spoke with had heard that the -- i don't know if you call them an offshoot but definitely within the same circles. and then listed as a potential violent element this weekend. what we saw last week in washington, d.c., was just beyond, beyond what we would ever hope for, beyond what we would ever settle for. the type of violence we saw is
unacceptable and we wanted no part of a repeat performance here in michigan. >> welcome back to the sunday show, i'm jonathan capehart. last week's insurrection was the culmination of years of donald trump telling his largely white base that america had been stolen from them. now even they are concerned about his most ardent supporters. white nationalism isn't new. during the obama administration, fbi released internal warning that veterans returning from iraq or afghanistan could be attractive recruitments. the republican backlash was swift and see veer leading janet napolitano to apologize for a report that was released during administration of george w. bush. data has found 32 law enforcement from 15 states
attended last wednesday's insurrection. the pentagon has opened an investigation into white supremacy in the military. meanwhile, thousands of members of the national guard occupy the nation's capital ahead of the inauguration and activated in michigan as the state prepares for protests late today. last summer armed protesters stormed the capitol and also planned a kidnap and murder plot against the state's governor gretchen whitmer. joining me is michigan senator gary peters, the incoming chair of the senate homeland security committee. thank you for coming to "the sunday show." i must get your reaction to likal saying what he saw here in washington on january 6th was, quote, unacceptable. are you surprised by that? >> well, i'm happy to hear him say that. there's no question it was
unacceptable to the vast majority of all americans and certainly i think i speak for nearly every american when they were watching those horrific images. they saw that not just as an attack on the united states capitol but the citadel of you're democracy so an attack on america, an attack on them. we have to hold people accountable who were engaged in it and make sure it never happens again. that means we need to do a complete investigation as to what happened on january 6th. but i plan to launch as incoming chair of homeland security a much broader investigation looking at the rise of white supremacy group, white supremacists group, anti-semitic. it's an effort i started as the ranking member on the homeland security committee, did not find a very willing administration, the trump administration, no surprise to you and others. that's going to change now with the incoming biden administration and me chairing the committee. >> as part of your
investigation, senator peters, you say, is going to be broad. one thing i've been focused on in this show and previous shows is the notion -- not the notion. the accusation, the allegation leveled by house democrats that they believe that this may have been an inside job. will your investigation in the senate homeland security committee make that as a part of the investigation? will you look into that? >> it has to be looked into. we have to look at all aspects of what happened. we are likely to work with the folks in the rules committee who have jurisdiction over capitol police. my committee has jurisdiction over other elements of homeland security from secret shortstop, federal protective service as well as the continuity of government. in is a continuity of government issue when you have a mob riot in the capitol trying to disrupt a constitutional process of counting the electoral college votes. this is something we need to look at very broadly, get to the
bottom of. there certainly was a failure from the leadership perspective. we're hearing there was intelligence that this was potentially going to be very big and very dangerous. for whatever reason, it was not treated with the seriousness it deserved. clearly capitol police were under-resourced. despite some heroic efforts by a number of members of the capitol police, certainly leadership let them down and they let the country down, quite frankly. >> there are more than 20,000 national guard troops here in washington. there are eight-foot, ten-foot fences, barricades. you can't even get near the capitol. so, i'm sure there's very little concern that what happened on the 6th could happen again on the 20th. how concerned are you about that happening again after the 20th, after those barricades come down and after people are able to get closer to the capitol?
>> i am concerned going forward. hopefully inauguration preparations, this goes smoothly and sends a message that the united states and our government, democracy, is secure. it's a lingering problem and rising. if you look at the anti-defamation league talking about terrorist attacks in the united states, nearly all those attacks under their reports are domestic. they are grown domestically. you see an increase of radicalization. quite frankly, it's a result of just erosion of trust we see in this country. really in large measure fueled by a number of politicians who use incredibly harmful rhetoric, words that are very powerful that can elicit violence. if you look at the campaign that's been going on for the last few weeks and president trump and far too many republicans basically putting
out false allegations of fraud and saying that this election was stolen. when you start attacking the central pillars of our democracy and a free and fair election is a central pillar of democracy. when you start eroding that trust, even though you know there are no facts to back it up, you may get some short-term political advantage, what that does is corrode the foundation of our democracy and what can happen, as we saw very plainly just at the capitol, is that can lead to violence. that could be violence not just in the u.s. capitol. you can see capitols across the country, government facilities, courthouses. this is something we have to aggressively address. >> thank you for coming to "the sunday show". >> great to be with you. america has a long history with white supremacy, from its reliance on child slavery to lincoln freeing those who were enslaved and then paying their captors for the loss of their,
quote, property to president woodrow wilson, resegregating the federal workforce after taking office. joining me now is david blight, professor of american history and african-american studies at yale university and author of "frederick douglass," fabulous book. nikole hannah-jones, pulitzer prize winning journalist and creator of the fabulous 1619 project. and ron chernow, author of "grant," another fabulous book. thank you for being here. i specifically wanted the three of you here because each of you through your books and your projects have been studying american history and can put into perspective what we went through on january 6th. nikole, let me start with you. from your research and the 1619
project, why did what happened on january 6th not come as a surprise to you? >> thank you, jonathan. i should say, i'm not fit to be on the same panel as these two men whose work has been so inspiring for my own. the reason it's not surprising is because violent white supremacy has been an organizing principle of american politics since our founding. this idea that we are not actually to be a democracy for all people but to be a democracy largely led by white men and white americans, and that that will be violently enforced has always existed. we have seen again and again and there have been efforts to demand democracy for particularly african-americans, when black americans come into power you see resurgency of white hate groups, these violent efforts to reclaim democracy for
its legitimate bearers. if we were watching what happened after obama was elected, we saw at that point the rise in hate group. he was receiving more threats than any president we know. i think we were all surprised by what happened january 6th, of course, but the elements that led to that are not surprising at all. >> right. professor blight, you wrote the 900-page biography on frederick douglass, which i read and i want to thank you since you're here because there are some great lines in there that put into perspective where we are right now in the history of our country. but in doing the biography on frederick douglass, why was what happened on january 6th not a surprise to you? >> well, it was a shot if not a surprise. this tradition, if we want to call it that, or this president
of white, as hannah just said. it's an honor to be on the stage with you, make no mistake. when the right to vote was expanded but it was a white man's vote, it is as old as the violence of reconstruction, which is the most widespread political violence we have ever experienced. it's as old as the 1930s when even new dealers in the south, white supremacist new dealers fought hard finally against the new deal because they saw it threatening white supremacy in the south. it's the idea that the american nation was white in its beginning, white in its history, and somehow it's the fantasy that it can be returned to a white anglo-saxon nation state. i should also say, violence has so often been a part of this
practice. it needs also to be said, though, especially for young people, that this practice of white supremacy, white nationalism, has always been resisted, has always been fought, from the abolitionists through the great pluralists of the 19th century of which douglass was such a great one, of the pluralists by w.d. dubois to the colossal pluralism. it's always had dissent and resistance of all kinds. we need to keep this in mind. but this explosion last week still shocked us, in part, because they moved into the united states capitol, a sacred space, but it is now wide open. the white supremacy movement is in the open air now. and i have to say, too, that
interview you just played with that guy up in northern michigan in his knotty pine house, that reminded me of someone like richard russell in the '30s, who was under attack from eugene talmage in georgia for not being white supremacist enough. russell had pushed back. let's stop this lynching. let's stop using violence here. until russell got threatened by new deal measures that he saw ending white supremacy. there's always been that -- the radical right in america has always been at war with itself and it's bound to be now. >> ron, in your 1,000-page book on president grant, what factors in prominently is to professor blight's point about there's always been fighting back against white supremacy. and president grant, correct me
if i'm wrong, he fought hard and actually crushed the kkk. talk about this. >> yeah, the kkk was formed in 1866. it started out innocently enough as a social club of confederate veterans. pretty soon they started to march and confederate privates were suddenly taking orders again from their confederate offices. the kkk created an invisible empire that ruled in every southern country -- southern county. murdered thousands of blacks without any prosecution. in 1870 grant appointed a crusading attorney general named amos aikman. the justice department had just been formed and the justice department would forge its identity in the fight to crush the kkk. aikman personally went down to south carolina to supervise
this. he used federal troops to arrest members of the kkk. he used the new secret service to do detective work. he put to together interracial ju juries, brought 1,000 convictions and crushed the original kkk. the klan today rivals those in the 1910s and 1920s. unfortunately what happened, once the kkk was crushed, there was a whole new network of white supremacist groups sprang up with names like white league, the white liners, the red shirts, the rifle clubs, the knights of the white camille. i think this is one of the problems we'll have dealing with this generation of white supremacists, that is a free-floating network rather than a centralized organization, so you chop off one head and then another one springs up. it's like a monster with many heads. and i suspect this is going to
be a battle of many months and probably many years to get these groups under control. >> nikole, given the sweep of everything we just talked about and how this is something we've been through in this country, how confident are you that we can survive this iteration of the explosion of white supremacy, especially since it was given a big push by soon-to-be former president of the united states? >> yeah, i try not to ever make predictions but what i will say is the instinct to move on, to reconcile, to have unity is going to be very strong. if we see any lessons from that from history, that almost always comes at the expense of black equality. i do think we need to be very concerned about what reuniting with people who are willing to
overthrow our democracy in terms of -- in the service of holding onto white power. how does one then kind of unify with them without actually being dismissive of the black americans whose votes are what caused all of this problem in the first place? so, i -- i do think the country will survive, but i think the country's been very damaged by this. and it's not going to be an easy fix where, you know, we can just say, we're sorry, let's move on. if we learned from what happened in reconstruction, there has to be serious consequences and there has to be a serious effort to really show that we will not allow this type of violence to rule our politics in this country. >> i wish we had more time because this is such a rich conversation to have. david blight, you've been on my podcast, so nikole hannah-jones, ron chernow, you're both invited on my washington post podcast. i'll be in touch. thank you very much for coming on "the sunday show".
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that's a cop. go down the stairs back looping. >> hey, guys. i've been in the other room. listen to me. in the other room on the other side of this door. right where we're standing, there is a glass that if someone broke it, you could drop down. there are also two doors in the other room. one right when you go in. so, we should probably coordinate together if you're going to take this building. >> well, that insurrectionist certainly seemed to have a detailed knowledge of the capitol's layout. this and other footage slowly leaking out in the aftermath of the attack have led many to
wonder if it was an inside job. one right wing activist, the organizer behind the stop the steal movement even said as much, implicating three house republicans by name, who have all denied the reports. there's enough evidence, though, for capitol police to investigate whether disgruntled lawmakers offered pre-riot tours. here is how nancy pelosi replied to that charge on friday. >> in order to serve here with each other, we must trust that people have respect for their oath of office, respect for this institution. we must trust each other. respecting the people who sent us here. if, in fact, it is found that members of congress were accomplices to this insurrection, if they aided and abetted the crime, there may have to be actions taken beyond
the congress in terms of prosecution for that. >> joining me is congressman sean patrick maloney of new york. thank you for coming to "the sunday show". >> no problem. >> i've seen your videos since the insurrection on the 6th. you're still pretty -- you're still pretty clear of the mind that what happened on that day, there was some inside help. this was an inside job. >> be careful. i don't think i've used that term. i have reason to believe there were people in that mob who were coordinating with each, who had planned actions in advance. all of that needs to be investigated. i don't think any of us should be jumping to any conclusions about who did what until there's a thorough investigation. there's certainly enough
evidence already to know the president and his enablers in congress incited this violence with an incendiary lie about the election being stolen. that's very serious. >> let me play for you, and i'm sure you've seen it, congressman miki sherrill from new jersey. listen to what she had to say. >> what was so shocking is as you mentioned, visitors aren't allowed in the capitol complex. since march, since the start of covid, that has been shut down. all tours are shut down. it was so odd to see them that my chief of staff called the sergeant at arms to say, what is going on? and he reiterated the only way these people could have gotten into the capitol complex is with a member -- or members, staff. and we now know those violent groups that attacked the capitol complex had inside knowledge of the capitol grounds.
>> so, congressman, on the day before, on january 5th, did you, too, see the halls of the capitol were a little more crowded than usual? >> no, i didn't see anybody getting tours of that nature personally. i have heard members like mikie sherrill raise concerns about it. it's under investigation by the capitol police. that's appropriate. it should be simple to find out who brought in whom and if those people were involved in the next day. that's a serious issue. there's been great deal -- the crazy new members that have promised to bring guns to the capitol complex, shouting at capitol police. capitol police who saved all of our lives the day before. there are concerns about the safety of members, safety of the
inauguration. and it's a shame we are forced to deal with our colleagues, other members of congress who can't do simple things like wear a mask in those undisclosed locations during the evacuation so that a cancer survivor like my colleague bonnie watson coleman is dealing with covid-19. at least three members who were sheltering in the hours during the insurrection were apparently contracted covid and our colleagues won't wear masks. there's a lot of -- there's a lot of conduct by some colleagues on the other side that is just increasingly offensive given the consequences of that behavior. >> you know, when you said bumper crop of crazy colleagues, it made me think of this back and forth that seems to be happening. let me read it to the audience what your colleague
congresswoman boebert said. sean maloney's commence were extremely dangerous and shameful. there's not an ounce of truth to things he claimed about me. having read that, and the comments you just made, even in past interviews, you've never named anyone. why do you think your colleague from the other side of the aisle is singling you out? >> well, because these incompetent. because she jumped to a conclusion. didn't bother to look at what i said. she apologized, by the way, a short while later because we produced the transcript which demonstrated her comments, her tweet, her letter were farcically stupid and wrong. so the problem is when you get this kind of incompetence mixed together with arrogance, when people believe that they're right when they are demonstrably
wrong. now, congresswoman boebert has made a video bragging she's going bring a gun to the capitol. go google it. everyone can watch it if you want to waste two minutes of your life. madison said publicly he was armed during the insurrection. he made a six-minute video before the insurrection talking about how the election was stolen. there are qanon conspiracy theorists yelling at capitol police. i'm not making this up, but i'm always careful to say things i don't have personal knowledge of. congresswoman boebert, i think she's off to a disastrous start. >> congressman, let me get your reaction to this new video from "the new yorker" from the inside of the capitol during the insurrection. watch and i'll talk to you on the other side.
>> where the [ bleep ] are they? >> there's got to be something in here [ bleep ] we can use against the [ bleep ]. >> yeah! >> all right. [ bleep ]. whatever. >> ted cruz would want us to do this. >> yeah, absolutely. >> i think we're good. >> congressman, your reaction to what we just saw. >> it's sacrilegious. i mean, it's a defiling of a sacred space in our democracy. it's madness. and everyone in congress, members of congress i'm speaking of, who have incited this nonsense, this insanity, who have participated in this lie that the election was stolen
should be held accountable for what happened. this happened for a reason. it happened for weeks and weeks because the president of the united states aided and abetted by members of his party in the house and senate have been telling a lie about the election being stolen. they have whipped these people up into this type of insanity. and a capitol police officer lost his life because of it. other people are dead. and those sacred spaces were overrun for the first time by americans in our 240-year history. the confederate battle flag was displayed inside the capitol. that's where this led. and i want all of those members of congress to be held accountable. >> congressman sean patrick maloney of new york, thank you for coming to "the sunday show". >> thank you. and be sure to tune in later this week when joy reid sits down for a special interview with house speaker nancy pelosi on the eve of the inauguration. watch "the speaker one-on-one"
tuesday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. after this short break, we'll go live to the vacant streets of our nation's capital. more on the state of police that exist because a grown man can't handle his historic failure. a g handle his historic failure. th. two chocolate milkshakes please. (grandmother) did you get his number? (young woman) no, grandma! grandma!! (grandmother) excuse me! (young woman vo) some relationships get better with time. that's why i got a crosstrek. (avo) 97 percent of subaru vehicles sold in the last ten years are still on the road. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. get 0% for 63 months on select new 2021 models now through february 1st. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance.
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three days until an inauguration like no other and d.c. is locked down to a degree i've never seen. for more msnbc correspondent ellison barber joins me from the ground here in washington. what is the latest? >> reporter: jonathan, we heard about the virginia man who was arrested last night at a security checkpoint. one like these. if you've driven around downtown d.c. or capitol hill, you see these at a lot of different intersections. that's the one we had to walk through with our proper credentials to get to this area.
police say yesterday evening a virginia man came up to a security checkpoint in a pickup truck. he tried to go through. not necessarily go through, but he stopped and he told them -- he showed them an inauguration pass, which they called an unofficial, unverified inauguration credential. then he told them that he had a firearm, had' handgun underneath. they searched his car. they found that handgun and 500-plus rounds of ammunition. we were just learning about another arrest, a second arrest that took place at one of those security checkpoints a couple hours ago this morning. police say a woman drove up to a checkpoint and she presented some sort of military-like challenge coin and said she was a law enforcement officer. they told her to stop. she did for a while. then at some point drove away. they arrested her. she is now being evaluated at a psychiatric hospital. this is the scene in d.c. a military police vehicle in the shadow of the united states capitol. behind it you can see dozens and
dozens of soldiers. the national guard says they have 15,000 airmen and soldiers on the ground right now. that number is increasing by the minute. come inauguration day, we expect at least 25,000 guards members to be on the ground. they will come from all 50 states through u.s. territories as well as the district of columbia. i don't know if you can see, jonathan, back there is another perimeter. this is the second perimeter we've walked through. there's a third one. on the top of the fence there is razor wire that's been put up to surround the u.s. capitol. those fences are told about seven feet tall. that razor wire is on the eastern front of the capitol as well. jonathan? >> i drove around last weekend looking around and was concerned about that initial perimeter fence with nothing around it. when i saw the razor wire go up, i felt a lot better. thank you very much for that update. coming up, reaction for the
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it destroyed our party. i hope the republican senators know that because it is a reality and it will not help the country. the most important thing impeaching him after he leaves office will be disastrous for this country and our party. >> the senate is gearing up for an impeachment trial headed to their chamber and senator
lindsey graham made it very clear how he feels, but the house impeachment managers say they'll not be deterred. >> it's important for the congress to hold this president accountable. we cannot be as a constitutional republic a country where the president of the united states can incite an armed insurrection and face no consequences. >> joining me now to discuss, former congresswoman and msnbc analyst donna edwards, tom nichols, "usa today" opinion columnist and connie schultz, professional in residence at the kent state school of journalism. all thank you very much for being here. let's just go round-robin, starting with you, donna, to talk about your reaction to what senator graham had to say about proceeding with the impeachment trial. >> well, i think senator graham is actually in the least position to declare what the
congress, the senate should do or not. the reality is that this president was impeached by the house of representatives already. and it's the obligation of the united states senate to hold him to account and to push for a conviction so that they can make sure that he never again holds public office. it didn't matter whether the senator committed -- i mean, the president committed offenses in the 11th hour of his presidency. it's important for the nation to move forward and to heal and unite to hold this president accountable. >> tom? >> i think we shouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about what lindsey graham thinks because that steams to change based on the time of day. this is the same lindsey graham who had said he had enough, it was over, he couldn't do it anymore. then the next day was on air force one with the president. so, other than that he's obviously vote against
conviction, i'm not sure that we get very far trying to parse the inner logic of lindsey graham's position on anything. >> connie? >> i think lindsey graham changes his viewpoint quite regularly at this point. the people he needs to be talking to are people that can help him with this disorder. he's irrelevant. he's in the minority and i'm done listening to him. >> connie, as always, you break it down and i have no disagreements. let's have a listen to what alan dershowitz had to say. this is someone rumored to maybe possibly part of the president's second senate impeachment trial legal team. who knows. let's have a listen. >> joining me is alan dershowitz, harvard president emeritus and part of president trump's impeachment team. >> if you can impeach anyone who is not a sitting president, there are no limits to the power
of the congress to try ordinary citizens. it is plainly unconstitutional. >> okay. so, again, who knows if he's on the team. it seemed like he kind of confirmed it. anyway, what standing does alan dershowitz have and this argument that if you can impeach anyone who's not a sitting president, there are no limits to the powers of congress. give me a break. if you can't impeach a president or convict a president who incited an insurrection on the u.s. capitol, then why shouldn't any other president coming up behind donald trump consider themselves to be above the law? >> well, alan dershowitz has lost any standing he had as a constitutional scholar. the president of the united states, donald trump, he is the sitting president, was impeached. now the question is, can you try him and convict him? and i think the answer to that,
for most esteemed constitutional scholars is, yes, you can. and the senate has an obligation to do it once those articles are transmitted to the united states senate. and so that's really not a constitutional question. if alan dershowitz wants to join the defense team, he'll be like the last man standing for donald trump in his failed defense. >> let's have a listen to what one of the impeachment managers, congressman jamie raskin of maryland, what he had to say about the timeline. have a listen. >> the senate has not been in session, and so the speaker is organizing the formal transfer of the articles. and it should be coming up soon. i know the speaker also considers the president a clear and present danger. >> tom, the fact that it's sunday. trump's term ends at noon on wednesday. senate majority leader mitch
mcconnell has made it clear, at least as i last heard, he's not bringing the senate back until the day before. so, do you think that there's anything that could happen or that could be done to remove, as congressman raskin said, a clear and before wednesday? >> not as long as mitch mcconnell is determined to body block it with all of his dark hours. no, it's not going to happen. but just to remind people, and i've been arguing that trump should have been convicted and removed within a day of his impeachment. he can issue all kinds of destructive pardons, release classified information just out of sheer spite. he still has his full article 2 powers as commander in chief until noon, including control of nuclear weapons right until noon
on the 20th. even in the next 96 hours, there are all kinds of dangerous things that donald trump can do, but mitch mcconnell simply isn't interested in it. i wanted to add one thing. we went from lindsey graham to alan dershowitz, and i feel like we're one step away from trying to figure out the deep sayings of alex jones, but there were people who argued for impeaching hillary clinton before she ran for president. these were lawyers. and they wrote at places like national review who said, impeach hillary clinton so she cannot run for president. this notion, well, you can't impeach a sitting president, all of those articles -- all of those arguments went out the window when there were people who wanted to impeach other people. it's simply now it's a matter of convenience related to donald trump and all these people are seeking populous camouflage that they've discovered new theories of the constitution. >> that's a very good point that
they wanted to impeach hillary clinton before she even became president. now there's someone -- a freshman member of the house republican caucus who announced earlier -- late last week that she was going to file articles of impeachment against -- by then president biden. for what? i don't know. connie, your reaction. >> i'm in a mood here. i can't speak about this at arm's length, as you know, because my husband was one of the senators -- a democratic senator locked in the chamber that day waiting for -- trying to figure out, they were all trying to figure out how they were going to get out of there alive. this morning, i noticed earlier on the show you at least once ran a clip of that "new yorker" video by a very brave reporter, luke mogulson. that was the first time -- i watched the whole thing this morning. it is clear to me in a way that it wasn't before, because you
always want to hope that maybe not, that some of those people, that mob, those traitors, they wanted to harm and potentially kill members of congress. so, you see, this is where my mind is. this is where my heart is right now. and so these men lindsey agram, and the harvard lawyer, can remain irrelevant and audition for their next jobs with donald trump. but we have to remember what almost happened and did happen. and we have a very man, congressman raskin, whose son just within weeks here had ended his life. and yet here he is fighting for america. i know what brave looks like and i'm grateful for the ones who are. >> connie, thank you very much for putting a personal imprint on this. i think sometimes people just think that this is an abstract thing, that it happened over there. it happened in that gleaming white building in washington.
and to people i have no relationship with. and you have just reminded me and reminded the audience that there are real people here with loved ones for whom what happened on january 6th wasn't just something that hurt them because they're american citizens watching what happened in the capitol. but what happened was something that directly impacted you. in the little bit of time we have left, and connie, i'll start with you and quickly go down the line, now that we are in the final hours of the trump administration, just your thoughts about where we are and where you hope we go. >> i would like to caution all americans who don't have to be in the capitol on the day of the inauguration to stay away, please. i am heartened and yet very saddened by the show of force we have had to have in our capitol right now. i'm optimistic we will get through this because i know so many people, including regular americans who are determined we will, but we must be patient in
these last few days and not panic. >> tom? >> i back up connie, there is not a time to go wobbly. this is a time to celebrate our democracy, to stand tall and to understand that we're facing a domestic terror threat but we're going to inaugurate a new president and this time in our history will pass. >> donna edwards. >> you know, i echo that. i've lived in and around washington for the last 40 years. and been so, i think, every single inauguration. it really troubles me that this is where we are, but i'm excited that -- by the fact that we're going to inaugurate this new president and vice president. and that america is going to get on with the business of democracy and we're going to stand up to these domestic terrorists. >> thank you very much for coming back to "the sunday show." tonight my colleague speaks with
michigan's top three elected leaders in an exclusive interview. governor gretchen whitmer, secretary of state jocelyn benson and attorney general dana nessel discuss how they led our states through a capitol siege and once again facing extremist threats. "american voices" airs tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. up next, the byline.
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and there's one sentence in his oration that is as relevant today as it was when he said it 53 years ago. we must face the heart fact, king said, that many americans would like to have a nation which is a democracy for white americans, but simultaneously a dictatorship over black americans. at this very moment, washington is still reeling from the violence unleashed at the u.s. capitol by domestic terrorists incited to insurrection by a sore loser white supremacist president. despite the failed attempted coup on behalf of the president of their party, objected to the electoral college vote that declared joe biden the clear winner. the second impeachment of donald
trump last week was as swift as it was necessary and so must his trial and conviction in the senate be. the senate cannot resort to customary laziness. the american people sent them here to do hard things. and nothing is harder than holding a rogue president accountable for laying siege to the legislative branch, even after he's left office. but holding him accountable is a must if our democracy is to survive. speaking of how people wanted him to keep his mouth shut on these three evils, dr. king explained why he couldn't segregate his moral concerns. i urge all the senators, but especially republican senators, to heed dr. king's words as they ponder whether to convict donald trump for acting, quote, in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. king said, cowardice asks the question is it safe, expend yen
si asks the question, is it politic, but conscious asks the question, is it right? is there are times when you must do it because it is right. convicting donald trump and thus sending a clear message to anyone who would contemplate repeating his offenses would be right. i'm jonathan capehart, this is "the sunday show." ."
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♪♪ good day, everyone. from here in new york, we're approaching high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west, welcome to "weekends with alex witt." we begin with this thought in 72 hours at this moment, exactly three days from now, joe biden will be sworn in as president of the united states. but right now breaking news, the nation's capital on high alert. officials are anticipating mass protests today, as we've said, just 72 hours from joe biden being sworn in as number 46. this comes as we're seeing for the very first time dramatic new video from that january 6th attack on capitol hill. this is absolutely stunning, everyone. it has never been before aired on our network. it's shot by a reporter from "the new yorker." it gives us a look at what happened on the senate floor and what was on