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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  January 28, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PST

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thank you, we look forward to seeing you again, his new book, "the new climate war: the fight to take back our planet," that does it for us this morning, stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. it is thursday, january 28th. we have got a very busy morning ahead, so let's get smarter. this morning the biden administration is defending the vaccine rollout as shortages are now being reported in all 50 states and the death toll is projected to skyrocket over the next few weeks. it comes as the risk of americans getting infected is still ridiculously high. former cdc director tom frieden will join me to explain it. also today democrats will be talking to the white house as they try to hammer out a covid relief bill. the question is, will republicans get on board? doesn't even matter. senator jeanne shaheen is part of a bipartisan group to make this bill a reality, joining us
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in a few minutes. and you're talking about it, you know i'm talking about, everybody, even outside wall street, is talking about what in the world is going on with gamestock -- gamestop. why did the stop of a failing brick and mortar video game store jump 1,600% in two weeks? think david and goliath and at the moment david is winning but this battle ain't over. it is populism taking on capitalism and they're taking it to the street. getting to that in a minute. but first, we want to focus on this pandemic. maura barrett and tom costello. >> the projection now is, simple math, where the trend line is going, that we're going to cross the half million mark in mid-february or so, there's a little bit of good news,
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stephanie, that is that it appears that the number of new cases is declining by about 30% or so over the last few weeks post holiday. that's encouraging. and also the number of vaccinations right now is holding at about a million a day give or take. as you know the biden administration talking about increasing that. they'd like to get it up to 1.5 million a day if they could. they're already going to be surging more vaccine over the coming weeks. in addition to that, we talked this morning on msnbc with dr. anthony fauci about what else needs to be done to ensure that more vaccine is, in fact, getting into arms. here's what he said. >> to do things like getting a better capability of logistically getting the vaccine out there, for example community vaccine centers, getting the pharmacies more involved, getting mobile units. so whatever we can to get the vaccines out there. you're going to see an acceleration as we get into february, march and april, of a greater availability of doses at
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the same time that we logistically make it easier to get them into the arms of people. >> to that end they're now talking about fema requesting about 10,000 military personnel, deploying them across the country at about 100 vaccination sites to help vaccinate people en masse, if you will. so that's part of this push. they had been talking about 100 million shots in arms within 100 days, gets you to about early may or so and they're hoping to get that up to 150 million or so by early may. here's an intriguing question, posed in the "new york times," it is fascinating. if we officially have about 25 million people who we know have tested positive for covid but the truth is the real number may be closer to 100 million people who have tested positive for covid. they, in theory, with the antibodies for that and we have more and more people getting vaccinated, are we starting to see the earliest signs of herd immunity? that's not the overstate the case here, but it is a question.
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when you're starting to see a decrease in new cases, are we starting to have enough cases already throughout the country that we're seeing the early signs of herd immunity? we don't have an answer for that yet. >> we are going to follow it. mara, i want to talk about an extraordinary story, at a time when people are desperate for vaccines you had a 22-year-old grad, a student, who is running one of philly's vaccine sites, we talked about him a couple weeks ago, his extraordinary story but now it's taken a turn. this young man was actually taking vaccines home and giving them to some of his teenage friends and now the state of pennsylvania has stopped doing business with him. what is this about? >> reporter: right, so philadelphia had partnered with his start-up, philly fighting covid back when testing was in need. him and his fellow students and adviser were 3d printing ppe, when the city moved to vaccination, he wanted to offer help there. they vaccinated 700,000 people.
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and then things got dicey. they hadn't previously had a privacy policy. when they added that they actually included a clause that said the company could sell patients' data, obviously very sensitive information and that's when the city decided to cut ties with the start-up. then you have this question, the allegation of the ceo taking vaccines home. he said that the vaccines were going to expire. he tried to call everybody, any health care workers that he might know to give them to them and he couldn't find anybody so he took them home and vaccinated four of his friends. stephanie gosk spoke to him and he said he has no remorse. >> i understand it looks bad. >> do you regret it? >> no, i stand by my decision. this was an ethical dilemma for me. do i throw these doses into the trash, or do i put them into arms? i did what the mandate said. i put them into arms.
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>> reporter: i spoke with a home health care worker who received her first dose, she feels betrayed by the city. doesn't know when her second dose is coming, her appointment was supposed to be next week, the city council introducing a resolution to investigate the city's vaccination vetting system as they work to plan forward to fix these concerns, and their distribution program going forward. right now there are not any charges filed against him or his company, but he has hired a lawyer and he says that he's received death threats. stephanie? >> my goodness. i want to dig deeper into all of this. joining us now former cdc director dr. tom frieden, president and ceo of the group resolve to save lives. the president is calling for more vaccine supply, how long before that translates into actual, more appointments, more vaccine in my parents' arms. >> well, i think one of the really surprising things about the past week has been that there doesn't seem to be systematic information about how
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much vaccine is coming when, and that's the kind of information states need, doctors need, health systems need, to plan. the challenge here is that really we have far too little vaccine and we will have too little for at least another few weeks or month or two. but as we get into march and april, we're going to have, we think, a lot more supply and that will make it easier, but for the time being the focus has to be to double down on protection protocols, to mask up and avoid indoor air with people who aren't in your household, and also to ramp up vaccination, especially for people in nursing homes, staff and residents, as well as people over the age of 65. because, stephanie, what we should begin to see is a substantial reduction in the rate of death, not just the number of deaths, but the rate of deaths per cases, starting in march, really, because of the progress in nursing homes. little rocky, but still more than a million residents already
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vaccinated. that's a great start. and then maybe later on toward june or july a substantial reduction in cases because of the rollout of vaccination plus sadly the number of people infected and therefore immunity to that as well. >> i long for march, june and july, but i want to talk about where we are now. your group came up with a map that talked about the risk of infection around the country. this thing is extraordinary. the red shows very high risk and the purple shows extremely high risk. unless i'm color blind the entire country is red and purple. what do we do with that? >> we keep doing what we're doing. if you look, stephanie, at the united kingdom and ireland, even with the much more infectious variant, when they reduced indoor contact, and masked up more, cases came down. and cases are coming down. in the u.s. i think we have to keep in our minds that you can be getting
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better and still in a really bad shape and that's the situation in the u.s. yes, we've seen a very substantial reduction in cases in the past couple of weeks. and that trend, we think, will continue. but we're at a rate that's maybe ten times higher than where we could really do effective contact tracing and maybe as much as 50 times higher than what we would consider relative control so we can't get hardened to just how bad it is, over 100,000 people in hospitals, thousands of deaths a day. this is really a kind of terrible burden on our society. and the only way we're going to get our economy back is by controlling the virus. >> are we getting any closer to herd immunity? >> well, the best estimate is that there's about 25% of americans who have been infected, and this idea that we would get there by letting people get infected was a horrific error. you're talking about the possibility of 800,000, a
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million deaths if you allow that to happen. the goal here is to reduce spread anywhere and everywhere, while we ramp up vaccination. but getting to 60%, 70%, 80% of vaccine plus natural immunity coverage, that's going to take at least the first half of this year, in all likelihood. but in addition the new variant is the wild card because there are many more infectious variants, not just the uk one, and they have a selective advantage. that's the way evolution works. if they spread more, they'll be the ones that are more prevalent in the community and the higher, more infectious a strain is, the higher your threshold gets to achieve herd immunity. and, plus, herd immunity isn't like a light switch. basically it means that the virus spreads slower and we're still going to have to test, trace, isolate and quarantine, but i hope, stephanie, that by the fall we'll be getting toward a new normal.
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we may still have to mask and be careful about distance. but schools should be in person. universities should be in person. and increasingly we'll be able to do the things that we miss doing so much. >> and until then we have got to stay safe, protect ourselves, protect our communities. dr. frieden, always good to see you, thanks. in a few hours president biden expected to sign more executive orders, this time focusing on health care. this is the latest in the administration's already record number of executive actions. the editorial board of the "new york times" taking notice with an op-ed out this morning asking president biden to, quote, ease up on the executive actions saying that they are a flawed substitute for legislation. nbc's kelly o'donnell is at the white house. kelly, the orders today are aimed at expanding access to health care. what are they actually going to accomplish? >> reporter: well, a few things. certainly the president today wants to have a focus on health care and part of that will be a step to open the enrollment
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period again for the affordable care act and to make it possible for people who need to purchase health insurance, perhaps they've had a job change, perhaps they did not carry insurance, we're in this pandemic, making that more accessible. typically, as you know, enrollment periods are limited in time. usually in the fall. and then you can't get access to purchasing new insurance on these exchanges, or in company life, except during that limited peer. so by opening this up it creates a way for people who need health care insurance and want to have access to, to take a look. does some other things too, directing in a separate action, to get the government to look at some of the rules for medicaid, medicare, to expand access to health care. for example, looking at ways where there might be work requirements related to medicaid and the expansion of health coverage there. so these executive orders are a way to draw a lot of attention to the policies and priorities
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of the administration. they are not a substitute for legislation. hence, you saw that editorial urging the biden administration to do more on legislation, which they say they will do later, but these are some of the tools of trying to undo some of the steps of the trump administration and trying to shine a light on areas where they think there should be more focus. steph? >> kelly, thank you so much. ahead this hour, the story v's talking about, no doubt, you're not going to be surprised, i'm obsessed with it. how amateur investors, first timers, are using new mobile apps to get in on the investing game and they're going after some very big hedge funds, causing a massive short squeeze. the question is, will it end in tears? if so, who will be crying. the growing threat of domestic terrorism. violent extremists emboldened by the capitol riot, speaking with new york congressman hakeem jeffries whose family was
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targeted. what we can do to stop this. ridiculous. [ chuckles ] no one looks ridiculous, bob. progressive is always here for you with round-the-clock service. just so you know, next time, you can submit a claim with our mobile app. good. thanks again for -- for rushing over. are you kidding? this is what 24/7 protection looks like. okay. -you smell like fish. -sorry. i was talking to jamie. -you smell like fish. -sorry. with verizon you don't have to choose between 5g from america's most reliable network and the best in entertainment. get disney+, hulu, and espn+ all included. unlimited plans include 5g. and, you'll get up to $1,000 off our best phones when you switch. only on verizon.
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this morning we are learning more about the human toll of the capitol hill riots. we just found out that officer jeffrey smith, a 12 year veteran of the force, died by suicide nine days after he responded to the mob. he's the second officer to take his own life after being there that day. and the fbi is now on the hunt for these men on your screen who
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allegedly assaulted federal officers when they stormed the capitol. meanwhile, the department of homeland security issued a new terrorism advisory over extremists here at home who might feel emboldened by what they saw that day. pete williams has been all over this story. pete, what does that advisory mean? >> i think what it means, stephanie, is the department of homeland security getting on the record saying publicly in this advisory what the fbi has been telling the nation's police for several weeks now, that violent extremists in the country remain a heightened threat. it says that ideologically extremists may be emboldened by the siege at the capitol to target elected officials here and nationwide. simmering ethnic tensions and conspiracy theories about covid-19 add to the potential for violence. dhs is using the bull ten to encourage local authorities to
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maintain heightened security around state and local government facilities, watch out for elected officials. and here in washington, stephanie, we still have -- you were just here a couple of days ago, we still have a lot of security around the capitol. we still have fences, we're probably going to have 7,000 drawing down to 5,000 national guard troops, at least until the senate gets through the impeachment trial. it's going to last a while. and then at some point biden will come back up here for a speech to a joint session as presidents usually do early and there will be more security for that as well. >> all right, pete, thank you. i want to bring in new york congressman hakeem jeffries, the chairman of the house democratic caucus. on tuesday, a california man was arrested in part for sending messages to the congressman's family during the riot, those messages including photographs of houses near relatives, with the message, quote, we are armed, and nearby your house. congressman, first, i want to say i'm so sorry to you and your
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family. these messages were sent during the riot and the man was just arrested yesterday. that's almost three weeks later, what has this been like for you and your family? >> well, everyone is doing well and we're just very thankful, stephanie, that the fbi, the capitol police, the nypd, all of the relevant law enforcement authorities have taken this threat and all of the threats that have been directed at members of congress and our staff over the last few weeks, incredibly seriously. it all stems from the radicalization that has taken place over the last several months, if, in fact, argued the last several years by donald trump. but in connection with the big lie he told, that the election was stolen, and that he actually won the presidency, not joe biden. at the heart of the threats directed in our direction was the fact that my brother was
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told stop telling lies, your brother should stop telling lies, biden did not win, he will not be the president. that all traces back to the incitement by donald trump. >> but -- and i'm very anxious with even how i word this. that radicalization hasn't disappeared now that joe biden is president. clearly the man who is threatening your family he was motivated by president trump's lies, the big lie. you right there, you're blaming the president's rhetoric for these riots. but i want to talk about impeachment because right now it seems pretty clear the votes are not there for impeachment. and even if they were do you not have to think about how is that going to impact these people who are very motivated to create more chaos and havoc? >> well, we have a responsibility as a separate and co-equal branch of government consistent with the vision of the framers of the constitution to hold an out of control
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executive branch and an out of control president or former president like donald trump accountable for his crimes against the constitution. there is nothing more serious than inciting an insurrection and a violent attack on the capitol. as part of the effort to stop congress from undertaking our constitutional responsibilities to certify a presidential election, and facilitate the peaceful transfer of power. i'm hopeful that senators, regardless of ideological affiliation will follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the constitution, and let the chips fall where they may. it's time for them to put trumpism behind america so we can tackle the big challenges that we have, such as crushing the coronavirus, reviving our economy, and assisting everyday americans who are struggling. but to do that has got to be accountability. >> are you prepared for what could be on the other side? if the former president is acquitted, what happens if
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there's no accountability for him or the rioters? he was the one who said i could shoot someone on fifth avenue. >> well, part of the lesson of the first impeachment trial for him was that he could shoot holes in the constitution on pennsylvania avenue and get away with it because senate republicans were prepared to bury their heads in the sand. so that would be unfortunate, although there are a variety of other investigations, some civil, some criminal, that i believe have the president in their sights and we'll see what happens with those investigations. but every available option to hold him accountable for his actions should be undertaken. but we're going to proceed in doing the business of the american people. both in terms of defending our democracy, and building back better under the leadership of joe biden, speaker pelosi, and leader schumer. and we're not going to be cowed by the domestic terrorists and
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the white supremacists and the enemy combatants who want to stop us in our tracks. that would be giving in to them and that's not going to happen. >> congressman, thank you for joining us this morning, i appreciate it. be safe. and i wish the best to your family, what a few weeks you've had. >> thank you, stephanie. coming up next, the incredible, incredible story, playing out right now, of how struggling stocks like gamestop, blackberry, amc movies became the center of a financial power struggle, power struggle between amateur first time day traders and multibillion hedge funds. it's populism taking on capitalism. we still don't know who the winner is going to be.
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whether you are in the stock market or not you've probably heard in the last 24 hours about gamestop, whose stock has gone to the moon in the last few weeks for no apparent reason. but what's happening with gamestock isn't just about this company, and it's not just about the stock market. it's a much bigger reaction to what is happening in our society as a whole. think populism comes to wall street. let's brake it down.
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there's a type of investment called a short. that's what happens when a trader bets that a stock price will go down and when it does they make money. if it goes up they lose a lot of money, especially if it goes up a ton and usually when big, big hedge funds put on a short, most people don't get in their way. most people just step aside, maybe go behind them but this time it's different. this time for the first time we saw an army of day traders, individuals, that saw a few of these big hedge funds managers were betting gamestop would go down so they banded together in force and bought it and bought it and bought it and it raised the price, forcing these major hedge funds to lose a ton of dough because they had to cover these shorts. i've got to discuss this. this story isn't over. i want to bring in andrew ross sorkin, founder of deal book and cohost of squawk box, and my old friend noah navagrtz, ceo of galaxy digital.
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big picture, michael, from a cultural perspective, these robin hood traders this is the same spirit of those $10 do nors who thrust bernie sanders into the center of the political establishment. now it's that exact same spirit but they're trading gamestop on their phones, can you connect the dots? >> listen, there is an anger out there, if you go on the reddit chat rooms, you're shocked at how much anger, almost a nihilism of let's tear down the system. it's millennials looking at baby boomers saying you screwed our planet up, you screwed our economy up, you screwed our future up, we're sick of you and we're coming after you. part of this is a classic short squeeze but part of this is much bigger, it's that same, as you were saying, that same nihilism
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we saw with people trying to tear down the capitol. you know, it's that same anger you saw in the black lives matter protests. you know, i remember the l.a. protests, there was eat the rich was written all over l.a. part of this is the rich/poor gap, the inequality gap continues to get wider. part of this is people are sick of the insiders always seeming to win, the real estate guides get to depreciate taxes. it's hard to be able to participate in an ipo unless you're rich. the private deals go to the wealthy guys and they seem to change the rules. the little guy is sick of it and you're seeing that in multiple places in america so it's time for change, you know, we need systems change. and i think that's what this is calling out for. now, i wouldn't want to say to the listener things have gotten crazy and i think anyone who buys these stocks at these levels is going to lose all their money. i would advocate if you're on these stocks to sell them and not to participate if you're
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not. >> that's where i want to go with this, andrew, all the points michael is making about the system being rigged for the big guy for the rich, i mean, i can't walk in and buy the airbnb ipo at new issue at a time, by the time i get to buy it it's when all the rich people are selling it. this strategy to step in buy up these stocks of failing companies, amc movie theaters, build a bear, gamestop, the fundamentals of these companies are light years away from where the stock is performing, this thing will collapse like what we saw in 1999 with the internet bubble. we were all excited about anything that ended with dotcom and then it ended in disaster. >> look, what i'm concerned about is that this is a pump and dump scheme that effectively is being cloaked as mother teresa has arrived on the scene. there are real underlying issues with the system that need to be dissolved. i do not want to protect the system. i love watching the little guy
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beat the big guy as much as anybody. but what i wonder is whether these folks trying to quote/unquote stick it to the man ultimately are going to be sticking it to themselves in truth. because as you said the fundamentals of this are so out of whack and there are people losing money who can't afford to lose the money. the hedge fund manager who's lost the money, fine, but guess what, if he's got a mortgage on the second or third property he's got he can pay it. we have people putting money into the market right now, either because they want to make money or because they are trying to pursue this truth that could very well lose their rent. >> michael, this is my concern with that very thing, at the moment david is beating goliath. they're winning, but look at history, right, look at the '08 subprime housing crisis. >> their numbers -- >> listen -- >> people have applied for loans they shouldn't have and they lost their houses, they lost everything and those shady bankers and those mortgage brokers, maybe they lost their
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jobs but they were a-okay, but those who lost their homes, they still lost their homes. that could happen again. the big guy gets bailed out the before the little guy does. >> chris saka, a friend, tweeted this morning that in 1999 he used his student loan money to bet on the internet bubble and he was thinking he was so smart and last a lot of money and by the end of it he was down $1.5 million in debt and it took him years to dig out. so he put his warning sign on. listen, you're 100% right. listen, the guys who got in this early, they made money. there's 100% certainty of it and they made a lot of money but what's happening now, gamestop traded $23 billion yesterday. that means there were $23 billion of new buyers and sellers. you're turning over to new people thinking, hey, i've got to get in on this thing and it's really dangerous. i had a friend call me and he said i just bought amc, another stock like gamestop, and i'm like, hang up the phone and sell it immediately, and it's already
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$5 lower than it was. it's very dangerous for people and it's going to end poorly, then there's going to be lawsuits and there's going to be finger pointing and regulation that has to figure out how do we stop this stuff? >> but let's talk about the positive here, because there is something beautiful about the democratization of finance and wall street. the fact people can use the robin hood app, maybe it looks like a mobile app and they should be careful, the fact that it is user friendly. unless you have a background in investing, unless you're part of that universe, it's difficult to break in and people should be able to. there are lots of people that have disposable income if they want to play in the markets should be welcome to and shouldn't have to pay up to be a client of some fancy firm or research organization. >> look, i'm the first to say the market should not just be for the wealthy, they should not be for professionals, we try to do every day is democratise the
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process and get information to the public. in the aftermath of the financial crisis, the public looked at the media, and said why didn't you blow the whistle? why didn't you blow the whistle loud enough? and now folks like myself, yourself and others are saying, we're trying to blow the whistle and saying, look, this could be a problem. but interestingly, and what's so unique about it is is that so many of the reddit traders out there saying we don't need protection, you're protecting the hedge fund guys, you're not protecting us. it's a very unique moment in terms of trying to think about what the dynamics are that are at play. >> but andrew, no one's protecting the hedge fund guys. with a we're saying is, before you dance on their graves, better check their pulse and look for the exit door because there's a good chance they're not dead and they're coming for you, and we know this, michael, because you've been one of those guys forever. >> yeah, listen, you know, i now run a big cryptocurrency
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business. it was started by people that didn't trust the center, it continues to be fueled by this idea that we can recreate a new way of looking at things, right, a new financial system, a new consumer system. i would separate it, though, from gamestop, right, bitcoin really does serve a purpose, specifically designed to be a store value where gamestop isn't. while it's got the same energy crypto really has a purpose, centralized finance is peer to peer, how can we cut out the rent takers, the goldman sachs and jp morgans from the system so the little guy gets a fair chance? there's a revolution happening before our eyes and i think in five or six years is really going to change the way business is done. that's fueled by the same energy that you're seeing in gamestop but they're completely different things. i want to make that point. you know, this gamestop thing feels nihilistic at this point.
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>> then i just want to get to one final thing, you know andrew, michael was able to get involved in crypto but he was already a really rich guy. why not try that venture. when you think about sort of the leader of this revolution, many of these small guys are pointing to elon musk, one of the richest guys in the world who does hate short sellers, which is fine, you've got a problem with short sellers, who does have a problem with regulators, i get that, but he's cheering on these young guys and we don't even know what his investments are. at the end of the day if this all turns out badly he can put that baby of his whose name sounds shockingly like r 2 d 2, get in his rocket ship and go to mars and people would have been spent their stimulus checks betting on gamestock. >> i think you're pointing up an issue, which is -- again i'll say it, though i'll get attacked on line and twitter and elsewhere, those of us who have seen this movie before have a
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responsibility to tell folks how it ends. unfortunately it typically ends badly. i recognize it's ended well for some people but when you talk about elon musk or the cameron whinglevosses of the world cheering this online, they're in a very different position than most folks out there. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. if you enjoyed this conversation, you're in luck. mr. novagratz and i continue this in the modern ruhles podcast right now. gentlemen, thank you, gooed to see you both. .up next, democrats scheduled at the white house to talk about covid relief package. never settle for 25%. at the white house to talk about covid relief package. up next, scheduled at the white house to talk about covid relief package. d at the white house to talk about covid relief package. to talk at covid relief package with relapsing forms of ms, there's a lot to deal with.
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♪ ♪ (quiet piano music) ♪ ♪ comfort in the extreme. the lincoln family of luxury suvs. we've got more breaking news this morning on the economy. last year was the worst year for economic growth since the second world war with the gdp sinking
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by 3.5%. that obviously comes as no surprise, the majority of our economy was shut down because of covid. new jobs numbers are out this morning, weekly jobs numbers, 847,000 americans filed first time unemployment claims this week versus the 875,000 that were expected. this as president biden pushes his $1.9 trillion covid relief package which includes a new round of stimulus checks to help the millions of unemployed americans. and new this morning nbc news has learned senate democrats will talk covid relief this afternoon with the head of president biden's covid team and the president's top economic adviser. the call comes as democrats struggle to settle on a strategy for the president's $1.9 trillion package should they parse -- pass a bipartisan bill that gets everybody on board or should they leave republicans out entirely and go the reconciliation route which takes a whole lot more time?
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also new this morning an opinion piece in the "new york times" calling the president's covid relief plan a trojan horse that needs to be more focused on the needy. you're in luck because we have the best guest to break this down, steve rattner, the former head of the obama task force. steve, you say you're okay with the plan being a legislative trojan horse but it needs to focus on the needy. explain. >> yeah, i think we do need to go big. i think we do need to go bold. i think we do need to go quickly by there are elements of this plan that i don't believe use our precious tax dollars and debt dollars very effectively. for example, the famous stimulus checks now proposed to be an extra $1,400 per person, depending upon your income. there are a couple problems with it, first, we have literally just learned a couple days ago is that from those checks given last spring very, very high percentage of them, particularly for people making over $78,000, they virtually didn't spend any of it.
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they essentially saved it, which is good in some ways but not the point of the current exercise. and then the second point, which relates to that, is that people making as much as $300,000 a year, with a family of four, can still get a piece of this stimulus money, and you're dealing with a median family income, a typical family income in this country of about $78,000. so we are sending this money all the way up to the top 10% of americans and i just don't think that's a good use again of our tax or debt dollars, depending how you want to think about that. >> you say in here if we want to start to solve the long-term inequities it is time to tax the superer rich. i feel you, i hear you, is there any chance republicans are ever going to get on board with that? >> no, but they don't have to and this relates to the lead-in you did to this piece, there's a lot of legislative gamesmanship going on here but when the dust settles there's no doubt in my mind that significant portions of president biden's plan, both
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on the recovery plan as well as his tax plans, his build back better plans, are all going to be passed to the extent it's possible, it gets complicated a use you know through a process called reconciliation, passing with 50 votes plus the vice president voting with the democrats so i expect you're going to see that happen very soon even on part of all of this first package let alone when we get to tax increases and much bigger and more ambitious programs. >> i am not at all arguing against direct stimulus payments, especially to those who need it. however, even more importantly than that is there not an ambitious plan behind this, a jobs program, a skills training program. even if people get jobs again, before covid hit we had a huge skills gap in this country, millions of people with jobs that left them with not even enough money to have $400 worth of savings. should we not be spending money on a huge initiative to retrain
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people for higher skilled jobs so they can be paid more for that work? >> yeah, and my understanding is the biden administration is thinking about their big economic program for the first half of his first term, as two pieces. an immediate piece to deal with short-term problems, for example you start to have some portions of the unemployment insurance program run out as soon as march 14th. so we need to move quickly. and the kinds of things you talk about, which are all very, very important, and things i very much hope that he and the democrats and maybe even the republicans in congress do, are more complicated. they take longer to design, they take longer to legislate. and i believe those are going to be part of the next package, which probably realistically won't get put in place until sometime next year, obviously slower and longer than what we all would like but these are complicated issues and i do believe they're focussed on the kinds of things you're concerned about and i am too. >> where do debt and deficits fit into all this? yes, this is the time to spend,
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we're in a crisis but what happens is, once we're through this crisis ask we've got this massive deficit, then social programs start to get cut and those are the programs, those people that need help the most, will still be needing years from now. >> yeah. look, i'm in the camp of people who believe t and deficits still matter. i also believe that when you're facing a national emergency, a crisis of this nag anitude. you do what you have to do, as we have been doing with over $3 trillion of stimulus already in recovery, rescue, whatever you want to call it, already put in place. this would be another $2 trillion and i don't think it will end up being $2 trillion. i think it will end up being meaningfully less, and my biggest concern, as the debt goes up, even with low interest rates, but certainly when interest rates start to go up again which eventually that it starts to squeeze out other kinds of programs and plans from our budget that are things that are very, very important to us and that's a problem and the second problem is that atting
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adding all this debt, is a kind of intergenerational theft. in effect we're taking it from our kids, we're basically borrowing this money to fix our problems now, all important, some other things that maybe not as important that we're things important that we are spending money on, we will leave behind all this debt and our children will have to continue to service it even as interest rates eventually go up. >> thank you so much. around as a reminder, when we are talking about interest rates and the fed printing money. remember when the feds keeps the interest rates at zero and pumps mound into this system. you know who that helps? people who are asset owners, own houses, and they go up. you know who it doesn't, they don't have any of that that's why the rich have gotten richer and the poor has gotten poorer. joining me now is jeanne shaheen of new hampshire, a part of 16 senators working on covid
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relief. thank you so much for joining us. tell us where you are on all of this. can republicans and democrats get on the same page? >> well, i think we're still talking and that's a good sign. i would like to see what we can agree on. i think it's important to fet a bipartisan proposal done. it sets the tone for what we need to do. we need to do other big things, infrastructure parkage, immigration reform. a number of other big proposals that we need bipartisan support for. so i would hope that there are some things that we can agree on and i think as mr. ratner says earlier, we really do need to look at how we best target in this relief package so it go es to those most in need. >> there is a difference between wants unity and bipartisanship and getting things done. the clock is definitely ticking for democrats. at some point did you say you
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just have to move forward without them? >> i think we do have to get things done. that's why i'm in the senate. so we can get things done. when we reach that point, we do have to move on. the new a administration has been here a week, i hope we can discuss a little longer what we might be able to do to get some portion of this package done, if not all of it. that's the goal to get aid out to those who need it the most. it starts as the president has said, with addressing the coronavirus and vaccine to making sure we can get help to get those vaccines distributed and into everybody's arms. >> do you think you need to break it up, make it smaller, forward to get republicans on board? >> i think that remains to be seen. we've heard a lot of concern from my republican colleagues about the size of the package. everybody does seem to be in agreement on the coronavirus
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portions of it, the vaccines, the distribution, the texting, the tracing, the investment in genomic research. so i think there is pa lot of agreement on those portions of the package. >> then would you support cutting the package up and going nall on the health portion of it? it was fed chair j. powell whose job it is to get the whole country vaccinated. >> i do think the sooner we can do that, the better. we can always then come back and do whatever else by reconciliation. i hope we will not be stuck for a month or two months, trying to get something done that will be critical to help with the vaccine distribution and vaccination. >> thank you so much for joining me. good luck. we have your work cut auto for you. >> we will go over to other
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headlines. it's a busy day, president biden is likely top direct his orders on immigration and a task force to reunite migrant families separated in the trump administration. there are still at least 600 children separated from their families whose parents can't be located. during the presidential campaign, bind said he would establish a task force to reunite those families on day one. house minority leader kevin mccarthy is meeting with former president trump in florida today. it's an attempt to mend ties. mccarthy said he bair bears responsibility for the capitol hill riot. he has since backed away and voted against impeaching the president. this comes after mccarthy encouraged republicans to stop attacking one another and stay focused on beating democrats in 2022. finally, you remember the
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life of legendary actor known for her performance in the last picture show. she might not be well known for the house keeper in the hit zone young franken stein. she had an extraordinary life and career. she was 94-years-old. that wraps up the very busy hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. my colleague hallie jackson picks it up next and she will be joined by california democrat jimmy gomez. we are following live confirmation hearings as they get under way for president biden's pick secretary. have t biden's pick secretary have a copd sitti
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. as we come on the air, the alarming new projection of the income of people who can die from the coronavirus setting up another wave of emergency action at the white house. president biden right now getting new orders ready that would help people get access to healthcare with the cdc warning, covid could kill another 84,000 americans, just in the next three weeks. one order reopening obamacare exchanges, for millions that don't have insurance. we get word from immigration action are actually on hold. we have exclusive reporting you will only see here just ahead. plus on capitol hill, the divide growing on just about every priority. one pushing the center of former president trump. with our sources, telling me and
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my team, but the former president's strategy, house speaker nancy pelosi talking later this hour, expected to address most if not all of it. we will take you to that live when it happens, including a battle brewing in her own house. the escalating movement and the bill to install congressman marjorie taylor green. i'll be talking with congressman jimmy gomez who introduced that idea in just a bit. our news team has it all covered. julia ainsley and we start with kelly on how the biden administration is escalating its responses to the emergencies facing this country. they are doing it on a couple things, front and center and there is a serious issue with vaccine shortages being reported by all 50 states, every state in this country. >> and a part of what they are looking to do


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